When I started we called it Taekwondo in name but we still very much practiced the "karate" way. We did both modern TKD Kukki poomsae and the old karate Hyung (pyung ahn, chulgi, etc.), we were Chung Do Kwan lineage under Park He Man. Our focus was always on practical fighting for self protection so we punched to the head, allowed takedowns, leg sweeps and standing joint locks. When our CDK association started going the more modern kukkiwin/WT sport direction our school decided not to. The difference between old school Tae Kwon Do and modern Taekwondo is day and night.
I was a student of Jhoon Rhee TKD in 60' and 70's. It's sad what's happened since then: the WTA has become more of a sport and the ITA has added the sein wave movement. Neither are like the approach taught by Rhee. When I started we did the pyoung ahh forms series. Actually today I would a steer students toward Tang Soo Do. It's still practiced as a martial art.
There's still schools that still have that practical application to it's teaches. Plus, there's crosstraining with kickboxing or thai boxing to supplement that mostly lost application
Thanks for providing a clear history of TKD in America. My brother, Gerald, was a student at GM Burleson's school in Fort Worth, Tx in the early 1970's In 1972 I began training under my brother. Sadly, he passed away July 4, 2021. It was good training, though.
why isn't S HENRY CHO MENTIONED (TAEKWONDO) -- he came to USA 1961 -- FOUNDED THE UNITED KARATE INSTITUTE (NYC) had first large exhibition in MADISON SQUARE GARDEN (1960S)
Keith Yates, thank you so much for posting this! My instructor's instructor was a student of Jhoon Rhee and getting to hear those interviews about the early days helps bring the stories that he told to life even more.
@@bobbieschke599 We spell it Kang Duk Won. I've looked into the history. Park Chul-hee was a senior student Great Grandmaster Yoon Byung-in and co-founded Kang Duk Won "Academy of Moral Teaching" with Grandmaster Hong Jong-pyo in 1954. It seems there was a East coast KDW and West coast KDW in the US started by two different skilled students of Park. Norman Rha is the name of the man who taught Bob Babich and established KDW on the West coast. I'm just grateful I learned what I learned. Best!
Hi, I started Taekwondo in the 70s and was fortunate enough to live and train in Korea on 2 occasions for many months. The Koreans are fiercely patriotic people, so much so that the very foundation of Taekwondo is as much about being non Karate as it is about being Taekwondo . I'm sure your book and research is very sound, however the term "Korean Karate" I believe, and know form personal experience in Korea from Taekwondo students and masters would be regarded as insulting! Semantic for some I know. Interested to hear other's views on this. Thank you
The Koreans were the ones who first used the term (at least in the US). Henry Cho wrote his classic book "Korean Karate" in the early '70s. Jhoon Rhee named his tournament and early schools using the word Karate. Jack Hwang, David Moon, Ye Mo Ahn and the many other Koreans that I trained with in the 1960s all called Tae Kwon Do the "Korean version of Karate." And, of course, the name Tang Soo Do was the Korean translation of the term "China Hand" which was the original meaning of Karate in Japan.
Very interesting, thanks for replying. Could it be the term was used in America simply for marketing regardless of Korean patriotism back in Korea as Karate would have been known by the general public and Taekwondo not known at all.
Thank you for sharing Mr Yates. Very interesting watch and important to know the history no matter what style we are. Osu (Me, a lowly hobbyist Shotokan guy from Ireland )
I know there is a lot more to Taekwondo than what meets the eye, however whenever I asked the old school masters and grandmasters at my former Taekwondo academy they were incredibly vague with their answers. Like why are palm strikes taught in class if we never use it in sparring? Also what are the self defence moves in poomsae, there are obvious throws and submissions , even grabbing the clothing for leverage in your punches and kicks but you never see them blended into the sparring style , I am mixing it in myself now but I still need to be educated on self defence movements and the purpose of some movements in poomsae but so far when you put all that stuff back in you get something very different. I would love to see a video about the applications of these movements, or if you could recommend a book so I could continue to build this up. unfortunately I don’t know where to look
You appear very skilled on your channel. What style of TKD do you train, and why can't you use the things you mentioned in sparring? When I sparred back in the day doing Chung Do Kwon, I think most anything could be used in sparring except strikes to the groin. Though I did fight in two tournaments where groin strikes were legal. Looking back, I'm surprised, but at the time, I just did it. Besides always being the smaller fighter, I admit, I liked how it leveled the playing field so to speak :-)
@@Docinaplane thank you for the compliment. I’ve never heard of those tournaments before but that would be awesome. To answer your question, I used to train chang moo Kwan but I moved on to a different academy, because one of the head instructors was arrested for the rapes of 4 underage students and it became very apparent that the other instructors were trying to keep it a secret, when I asked too many questions I was told to leave. If you wanna see my actual Taekwondo channel I’ll drop the link below It’s my interpretation of what no holds barred Taekwondo should look like ruclips.net/channel/UCXGNNNm203rWkMkSppW1oxQ
@@austinwiebe2648 That's terrible about those instructors! Chang moo Kwan became part of WTF as best as I could understand. Interesting channel. My first style was Chung Do Kwon to black belt. Then I found Kang Duk Won Karate and have been there ever since. My lineage is through Bob Babich in San Jose, Ca. It's a very strong attacking style, both arms and legs. Plus I've added Joe Lewis Fighting System, Tracy's Kenpo and anything else that works for me, plus a little submission grappling. Best!
@@KaptainCanuck Yes it's Kwan. In the early days when I learned these systems, there were Chung Do Kwan, Jidokwan and Moo Do Kwon trained Koreans coming and going at the school. You never knew who was going to teach class.
Interestingly, neither Mr. Rhee nor Mr. Steen ever mentioned Atlee Chittim in our classes. I did find out about his role much later after doing some research into our lineage.
As mentioned in the clip, most Korean kwans/school/training halls (Chung do kwan, ji do kwan, oh do kwan etc.) referred to their style as “tang soo do” (also Kong soo do and tae soo do and soo bak do at times. I think during the mid 1950’s the various kwan leaders decided to unify under the “taekwondo” term. However Moo duk kwan continued to use the tang soo do identifier and does so to this day.
@@terrydawson2239 , prior to taking the TKD banner, as per General Chae Hong Hi (Chay is the proper pronunciation, not Choy), they all went by their separate kwan names and not all TSD. Moo Duk Kwan TSD did retain the TSD, though, as I seem to recall.
Кино
When I started we called it Taekwondo in name but we still very much practiced the "karate" way. We did both modern TKD Kukki poomsae and the old karate Hyung (pyung ahn, chulgi, etc.), we were Chung Do Kwan lineage under Park He Man. Our focus was always on practical fighting for self protection so we punched to the head, allowed takedowns, leg sweeps and standing joint locks. When our CDK association started going the more modern kukkiwin/WT sport direction our school decided not to. The difference between old school Tae Kwon Do and modern Taekwondo is day and night.
I grew up under Master Roy Kurban, Things were much different back in the day,
I was a student of Jhoon Rhee TKD in 60' and 70's. It's sad what's happened since then: the WTA has become more of a sport and the ITA has added the sein wave movement. Neither are like the approach taught by Rhee. When I started we did the pyoung ahh forms series. Actually today I would a steer students toward Tang Soo Do. It's still practiced as a martial art.
old school TKD = the best
There's still schools that still have that practical application to it's teaches.
Plus, there's crosstraining with kickboxing or thai boxing to supplement that mostly lost application
Thanks for providing a clear history of TKD in America. My brother, Gerald, was a student at GM Burleson's school in Fort Worth, Tx in the early 1970's
In 1972 I began training under my brother.
Sadly, he passed away July 4, 2021. It was good training, though.
why isn't S HENRY CHO MENTIONED (TAEKWONDO) -- he came to USA 1961 -- FOUNDED THE UNITED KARATE INSTITUTE (NYC) had first large exhibition in MADISON SQUARE GARDEN (1960S)
Keith Yates, thank you so much for posting this! My instructor's instructor was a student of Jhoon Rhee and getting to hear those interviews about the early days helps bring the stories that he told to life even more.
Thank-you so much for uploading this.
I've been looking for this documentary since it was deleted off of another account
Kang Duk Kwon taught by Park Chul was the Korean style I came up in .
That's the style I learned also. The lineage is through a school in San Jose, Ca. Headed by Bob Babich
@@Docinaplane Mr. Bob Kane had a school in Glen Burnie Maryland and was taught by Park Chul. I trained with a senior black belt from Kane's Karate .
Kwawn, not kwoen. They are pronounced differently and mean two totally different things
@@KaptainCanuck I didn't spell it the way of your correction.....
@@bobbieschke599 We spell it Kang Duk Won. I've looked into the history. Park Chul-hee was a senior student Great Grandmaster Yoon Byung-in and co-founded Kang Duk Won "Academy of Moral Teaching" with Grandmaster Hong Jong-pyo in 1954. It seems there was a East coast KDW and West coast KDW in the US started by two different skilled students of Park. Norman Rha is the name of the man who taught Bob Babich and established KDW on the West coast. I'm just grateful I learned what I learned. Best!
Thanks for sharing this Keith!
Hi, I started Taekwondo
in the 70s and was fortunate enough to live and train in Korea on 2 occasions for many months. The Koreans are fiercely patriotic people, so much so that the very foundation of Taekwondo is as much about being non Karate as it is about being Taekwondo . I'm sure your book and research is very sound, however the term "Korean Karate" I believe, and know form personal experience in Korea from Taekwondo students and masters would be regarded as insulting! Semantic for some I know. Interested to hear other's views on this. Thank you
The Koreans were the ones who first used the term (at least in the US). Henry Cho wrote his classic book "Korean Karate" in the early '70s. Jhoon Rhee named his tournament and early schools using the word Karate. Jack Hwang, David Moon, Ye Mo Ahn and the many other Koreans that I trained with in the 1960s all called Tae Kwon Do the "Korean version of Karate." And, of course, the name Tang Soo Do was the Korean translation of the term "China Hand" which was the original meaning of Karate in Japan.
Very interesting, thanks for replying. Could it be the term was used in America simply for marketing regardless of Korean patriotism back in Korea as Karate would have been known by the general public and Taekwondo not known at all.
@grantoaklands4724 yep
Korean karate 🥋 for 30 years now.Along with other styles.
The founder of taekwondo is general Choi Hong Hi.
Thank you for sharing Mr Yates. Very interesting watch and important to know the history no matter what style we are.
Osu
(Me, a lowly hobbyist Shotokan guy from Ireland )
Tay Kwoen Do, not Tie Kwa(w)n Do. Kwan means school/gym in Hangeul (the 100% correct romanization) and there is no such word as Tie in the language.
Excellent. Thanks for this.
I know there is a lot more to Taekwondo than what meets the eye, however whenever I asked the old school masters and grandmasters at my former Taekwondo academy they were incredibly vague with their answers. Like why are palm strikes taught in class if we never use it in sparring? Also what are the self defence moves in poomsae, there are obvious throws and submissions , even grabbing the clothing for leverage in your punches and kicks but you never see them blended into the sparring style , I am mixing it in myself now but I still need to be educated on self defence movements and the purpose of some movements in poomsae but so far when you put all that stuff back in you get something very different. I would love to see a video about the applications of these movements, or if you could recommend a book so I could continue to build this up. unfortunately I don’t know where to look
You appear very skilled on your channel. What style of TKD do you train, and why can't you use the things you mentioned in sparring? When I sparred back in the day doing Chung Do Kwon, I think most anything could be used in sparring except strikes to the groin. Though I did fight in two tournaments where groin strikes were legal. Looking back, I'm surprised, but at the time, I just did it. Besides always being the smaller fighter, I admit, I liked how it leveled the playing field so to speak :-)
@@Docinaplane thank you for the compliment. I’ve never heard of those tournaments before but that would be awesome. To answer your question, I used to train chang moo Kwan but I moved on to a different academy, because one of the head instructors was arrested for the rapes of 4 underage students and it became very apparent that the other instructors were trying to keep it a secret, when I asked too many questions I was told to leave.
If you wanna see my actual Taekwondo channel I’ll drop the link below
It’s my interpretation of what no holds barred Taekwondo should look like
ruclips.net/channel/UCXGNNNm203rWkMkSppW1oxQ
@@austinwiebe2648 That's terrible about those instructors! Chang moo Kwan became part of WTF as best as I could understand. Interesting channel. My first style was Chung Do Kwon to black belt. Then I found Kang Duk Won Karate and have been there ever since. My lineage is through Bob Babich in San Jose, Ca. It's a very strong attacking style, both arms and legs. Plus I've added Joe Lewis Fighting System, Tracy's Kenpo and anything else that works for me, plus a little submission grappling. Best!
@@Docinaplane Chung Do Kwa(w)n, not Chung Do Kwon. Kwan and kwo(e)n mean totally different things.
@@KaptainCanuck Yes it's Kwan. In the early days when I learned these systems, there were Chung Do Kwan, Jidokwan and Moo Do Kwon trained Koreans coming and going at the school. You never knew who was going to teach class.
Henry Cho.
The best one Jhoon Rhee
Superior job GM Yates!
Master Yates, Atlee Chittim sponsored GM Rhee's admission into the United States. Can you calirify why he is not identified.
Interestingly, neither Mr. Rhee nor Mr. Steen ever mentioned Atlee Chittim in our classes. I did find out about his role much later after doing some research into our lineage.
I thought that tang soo do is Korean karate :/ I'm kinda confused right now
As mentioned in the clip, most Korean kwans/school/training halls (Chung do kwan, ji do kwan, oh do kwan etc.) referred to their style as “tang soo do” (also Kong soo do and tae soo do and soo bak do at times. I think during the mid 1950’s the various kwan leaders decided to unify under the “taekwondo” term. However Moo duk kwan continued to use the tang soo do identifier and does so to this day.
@@terrydawson2239 , prior to taking the TKD banner, as per General Chae Hong Hi (Chay is the proper pronunciation, not Choy), they all went by their separate kwan names and not all TSD. Moo Duk Kwan TSD did retain the TSD, though, as I seem to recall.