I'm glad you took up this topic. I have wanted an emtb for a while now. Even though I can afford the high price, I have refused to pay those prices. I finally got one, but it took Yamaha leaving the US market to give me a price on an emtb I could live with. I'm sorry to see them go though.
Glad it was helpful! Reasonable prices are key to getting into the hobby or category. When the 2024 Levo Comp Carbon dropped to $3500 this year, I know about 20 folks who got into ebikes. Now all of them are hooked!
The elephant in the room, it’s such a boutique market. But I’m here hanging on to my cable actuated rear mech and aluminum rimmed wheels, aluminum cranks , still works great.
I’m a lifer MTB/trial/DH guy and even moved to a resort town so i could ride all summer and ski all winter. Last year I wanted to upgrade my XC to a Trek Slash. I was even a mechanic at the LBS for a couple summers. When they told me the cost I said yelp…. I went over to the Moto dealership and bought a KLX300 and the leftover $, I got all the gear. I feel like a traitor to cycling but the bike companies pushed me out! Few of my friends have also made the switch. I still ride my MTB and gravel sometimes, I ride trial at the skatepark for exercise, but I LOVE my dirtbike! Im a huge fan of your RC channel.
And this right here is the saddest story of em all. Not only is the industry roadblocking new riders from entering the sport, they are also chasing away lifelong cyclists and mountain bikers. It is not a good recipe for good health and a growing industry. I appreciate the share.
Your greatest point is the e mtb market not caring about grams. So true I purchased my Rail 7 aluminum frame intentionally at 50% savings over retail and 70% savings over carbon fiber frame models. My first upgrade was a steel rail seat no more expensive titanium rail seats saved another 50%. My 24lb 2004 Titus Racer X equipped with all XTR was $4800 in 2004. I just purchased a new left over 2023 Trek Rail 7 for $3200 granted it weighs twice as much as my Racer X did …ha ha I don’t care.
They're that price because brand executives believe the market will support it. They have their margins and these are multiplied through the sales channel. And the warranty duration is comical on emtb and the category overall. The pace of change is interesting as one could argue brands need to stop small marginal "improvements" and frequent Model Year changes / bold new colours. It'd keep costs lower.
This is the year of bargains for sure, and folks seem to be snatching them up. With peak buying season over I think there will be incredible deals during Black Friday and the holidays.
They should sale extended warranties on motors and batteries and all the electronics on new bikes that kick in after the factory warranty like they do on cars. I would for sure pay a couple hundred extra to have my bike covered for extra years after the factory warranty since I can’t afford to buy a new bike every couple years.
That is a great, great idea. One of the existing problems of the bike industry is they want you to get their new bike every 2-4 years. Not very nice and not very healthy for sure!!!!!
I just bought an Ari Nebo peak on sale, and it was similar to price i just sold an indian FTR 1200 for... it is crazy... but i wanted carbon, great fit, lightweight, and the latest electronic shifting... Motorcycles they make one size, maybe 2 or 3 versions of suspension.
Really enlightening how many options there are for mountain bikes. And that all adds to the cost. That is a fine bike you got for sure and the options are endless. Ari is cool company that is consumer-direct and geared for future success.
Questions re ebike motors... Most have 2 year warranties, and it seems like a lot of folks' experience is that their motors will crash around that time... 1) what is the approximate cost of replacing the motor and 2) are last generation motors typically available a couple years down the road? The biggest issue with e-bikes is that the life span of the bike is much shorter than analog - unless you could replace the motor, if available and not too pricey...
If you are out of warranty, the replacement costs for the motor are around 700-1000 dollar usually, depends a bit, which model and which brand. Bosch is known for being accommodating, so if you have just run out of warranty recently, they might still cover it or give you a discount at least. But there are also repairing companies for the bigger brands and since there are millions of these bikes on the road, they will cover them for a while, because it will make them some good money. But there are also laws for it, the EU requires these companies to provide spare parts for at least 10 years -- correction: the law is not yet in place, it starts from 2026, but i guess the bigger brands are already prepared for it
@@e_mtb Thanks for the reply. I figured it would probably be in the neighborhood of $1k, which isn't too bad imo, especially given that the motor is the heart of an e-bike, and it's a reasonable price to pay given the alternative ie it's useful life is over.... Do you think most motors will be available for some time after a new generation has come out? Any thoughts re availability, more specifically, on the Fazua Ride60 - given that it reputedly has some reliability issues, yet is on a good number of SL bikes?
Yeah, the prices for the motor and the battery are high, but not insanely high, it's close to a proper suspension fork from fox or rockshox and people still buy fully bikes, so I would not be too scared about it, if it happens, it's not nice, but it's also no disaster financially (refurbished motors/batteries are even cheaper). And yes, pretty sure the brands need to offer support even if there is a new generation coming out, I can't tell exactly how fazua handles it, but they are owned by porsche and automotive companies are usually having a good infrastructure for spare parts. They also just released a new battery and a new remote, so the system is still in production and parts will surely remain available for a while. And as you've mentioned a lot of (famous) brands are using it in very expensive bikes, so there is surely some support for a few more years. Their first model, the fazua evation, was released somewhat around 2018 and you still get all types of spare parts until now, because the refreshed version "ride 50" is backward compatible, might also be the case for the next fazua system, but of course that's just an assumption, cannot guarantee it
I agree with most of your points, especially the tool vs toy comparison and of course supply vs demand. In the end, consumers in this field are their own worst enemy - they eat up the ridiculous 5 or 10 gram savings on parts made with exotic materials, so manufacturers see that and keep aiming for the high end of the market. And for years, it seemed that it didn't matter how high they aimed, there would always be some buyer for their expensive goods. Well we've finally hit the top. That's going to force companies to pare back on some of this stuff to be able to cut costs, but it's going to be hard because once a company is used to some fat 30% margins, they won't be happy with "only" a 15% cut. This field has become like the audiophile industry where the gains are mostly nonexistent, and yet prices remain obnoxiously high because buyers are willing to pay them and not because of any other reason.
I have four electric unicycles which are way more fun than riding electric mountain bikes, even though that has been my "go to" for the last 25 years. My four electric unicycles cost less than a single carbon fiber electric mountain bike. And again the fun factor is way higher than the best electric mountain bike out there.
the problem the bike manufacturers have now that they didnt have before is that this years and last years bikes are the same. there is no more travel to add or hta to slacken. i kinda think they wont get away with those margins anymore. i certainly wont buy one that hasnt been deeply discounted
Exactly we had so much progress and technology that the premium prices had an audience. But with modern bikes stabilizing (solid but stagnant), this game of 'millimeter changes' is not gonna get a lot of $12k buyers.
Yes it's a bit unbalanced and has been for ever, even when I owned my own shop (1989-2002) I couldn't understand the difference between a motorcross bike at $6k and a good MTB at $6k, just never made sense to me then or now,and it's still the same and the smile factor is always with the motorcycle, but I did just buy a Cube at 45% off 👍
The used market isn’t worth a shit! MTB depreciates much faster than motorcycles. Plus you pay retail when the new bike is released but 8 months later the big brand cuts the price by 20-30%. Making you one year old bike worth 30% of what you paid for it 10 months ago.
It's gonna be crazy. If an Asian, Chinese manufacturer gets ahold of that motor and sells a bike for under $5k, that will shake the world. They are starting to have the manufacturing prowess on their own. And the suspension design/geometry is pretty standard now.
Ebikes need flexible warrantees based on milage and transferable to second owners. Otherwise the depreciation is massive as it is now. Got a question for you FC. How many miles should you reasonably expect out of an ebike motor? Is the life expectancy different between an SL motor and FP motor?
I know this much is true!!! They should last at least 5000 miles! Batteries too. In my experience, Bosch Gen 4 motors and Levo SL motors last up to 10,000 miles. Shimano E8000 and EP8, about 5000. Levo Gen 2 motor about 1000, Levo Gen 3 motor about 2500. Fazua... 500 miles :) The warranty on motor and battery SHOULD BE AT LEAST 5 YEARS. They are experimenting with us and using consumers for R&D but they're using old warranty policies made for pedal bikes.
Some good points But you have missed a few important points. Motorcycle industry works on an average 10 - 15% margin. Bicycle industry workers on an average of was 40% but now 30% margin More bicycles are sold in the US than motorcycles. Now motorcycles are sold as a whole motorcycle and all the components are covered by the motorcycle brand, if a component keeps failing or needs replacing under warranty? This lets the motorcycle manufacturer get a discount for the next year’s range and saves a load of money as each component brand does not have to have its full service and warranty system like they do in the bicycle industry. Bicycles are sold as the frame and the components because of this the bicycle industry cannot get discounts on the components as it’s driven by the component manufacturers not the brand manufacture of the bikes. The system is so screwed up in the bicycle industry with so many people getting their fair share of money from each part of the industry and components . The bicycle industry does need a shake up and needs to get more professional and start learning for motorcycle brands. How to get a better price to the Customer.
Very good points. Much thanks. I talk about margins in the video motorcycle/dealer takes 15%/15% while bicycle takes 30% each. More bicycles are sold but most of those are irrelevant to this discussion, aka under $500.. For components, bike manufacturers get huge discounts on them. Something very different though is components in the bike industry CAN get very expensive. They all have their own brand, marketing, race teams, etc. That all adds to the cost. Thank you again. Moto industry is different but bike industry can learn a lot from it for sure.
Same goes with Luxury bags they just go with luxury by selling on performance etc etc. Thats why we need Chinese made product and remove the magic of luxury mindset and it is starting
So interesting fc! Love this conversation. At the heart of it, you are right. We, aka mountain bike consumers, keep demanding for lighter bikes, better shifting, better braking, better suspension and on and on. The time it takes to develop these products at such a pace mirrors the mobil phone industry, and people keep buying those phones! What I can say from within the industry is that I do not see excess wealth. On the contrary, I see industry employees struggling to keep up with the cost of living, let alone any sort of luxury lifestyles... The correction is already here. Many bikes are 40, 50+ % off and the new models coming in to replace them are a better value than prior models with similar spec. As for the high-end? That will continue to go up... Keep your eyes on lower priced options with killer performance to keep things more “real”. Best example is a Fox Performance-Elite that has the same features as Factory, but no gold... Spoiler, our customers don’t buy the P-E model. They want the gold!!
Great comment man. You are making it happen, always. As the pace of tech, progress and bling stabilize on regular mtbs, it will be harder to justify the high prices as folks won't feel the need to upgrade. Emtbs will see rapid development. Less pursuit of weight, better warranties are key to keeping consumers happy buying.
you talk about motorcycles 'on a stable platform that does not change much. There has been a heap of changes, generally in a 3 year cycle. Alos KTM does have other colours ( generally two colours) KAwasaki has a host of colours other than green
Mountain bike = nature = mental and physical health = like an apple a day.. and that motorbike = bay area traffic and mental stress and high probability of getting hit by morons.
Let's remember there is a power to weight ratio in this discussion. Lighter materials are needed for a human powered vehicle and they cost more. Another big factor, many bike components are their own brand vs a supplied component. You don't see Showa, KYB, and WP marketing those forks and shocks doing videos tuning info and such. Not even a logo. Most bike brands are plug and play parts that brands develop, test and have to own the warranty/service. Not the case on a motorcycle. Lots and lots more differences too.
Thank you, thank you. Beautiful insight there. Why are motorcycles not as component-centric? Not so many brake and suspension options for a bike model? The motos sell themselves without the push of fancy spec? Pretty mind-blowing how many permutations there are in bikes when it comes to sizes, colors, spec, All adds to the cost. Are we chasing rainbows?
@@EMTBReview On moto's the manufacturer is responsible for the entire machine and testing. If I need a brembo brake part or a WP suspension seal, I get that part from KTM in a nice part number schematic from an online dealer. So they have a much better cost understanding. On a moto, the triple clamps are designed and made by the manufacturer, not Showa. moto fork tubes are half the cost of mtb. Same for the rear shock. The project team for the moto's is primarily let by the manufacturing and purchasing team and less product management/marketing. Much different from bicycles. But it's going to change in the future. E-bikes are the gateway.
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I'm glad you took up this topic. I have wanted an emtb for a while now. Even though I can afford the high price, I have refused to pay those prices. I finally got one, but it took Yamaha leaving the US market to give me a price on an emtb I could live with. I'm sorry to see them go though.
Glad it was helpful! Reasonable prices are key to getting into the hobby or category. When the 2024 Levo Comp Carbon dropped to $3500 this year, I know about 20 folks who got into ebikes. Now all of them are hooked!
Me exactly! Thank you Yamaha For $11,000 you can get a Stark Varg Alpha electric enduro motorcycle with 80 horsepower
Ebikes should be with universal motor mount, so many motor brands makes frames expensive as well
Agreed but it will never happen. It's their key differentiator and the motor companies have no incentive to make it universal
@EMTBReview thats why there needs to be a frame built for all motors. It will too expensive for everyone.
people need to stop asking for this it will never happen.
The elephant in the room, it’s such a boutique market. But I’m here hanging on to my cable actuated rear mech and aluminum rimmed wheels, aluminum cranks , still works great.
The boutique/exotic element is not a bad thing, (like in cars). But it shouldn't be the focal point or the goal everyone should aspire to.
I’m a lifer MTB/trial/DH guy and even moved to a resort town so i could ride all summer and ski all winter. Last year I wanted to upgrade my XC to a Trek Slash. I was even a mechanic at the LBS for a couple summers. When they told me the cost I said yelp…. I went over to the Moto dealership and bought a KLX300 and the leftover $, I got all the gear. I feel like a traitor to cycling but the bike companies pushed me out! Few of my friends have also made the switch. I still ride my MTB and gravel sometimes, I ride trial at the skatepark for exercise, but I LOVE my dirtbike! Im a huge fan of your RC channel.
And this right here is the saddest story of em all. Not only is the industry roadblocking new riders from entering the sport, they are also chasing away lifelong cyclists and mountain bikers. It is not a good recipe for good health and a growing industry.
I appreciate the share.
Because we keep buying them lol. If we stop buying these high end bikes guess what…..drop the price or they do not produce them as much.
that was my punchline for the video. One hundred percent.
I've been saying this for so long. How could a full-size motorcycle be less than a bicycle. Bikes should be about half the price that they are.
I outlined about a dozen reasons in the video. I think some forward progress can be made on better pricing. No easy answers though.
Your greatest point is the e mtb market not caring about grams. So true I purchased my Rail 7 aluminum frame intentionally at 50% savings over retail and 70% savings over carbon fiber frame models. My first upgrade was a steel rail seat no more expensive titanium rail seats saved another 50%. My 24lb 2004 Titus Racer X equipped with all XTR was $4800 in 2004. I just purchased a new left over 2023 Trek Rail 7 for $3200 granted it weighs twice as much as my Racer X did …ha ha I don’t care.
Well said!
They're that price because brand executives believe the market will support it.
They have their margins and these are multiplied through the sales channel.
And the warranty duration is comical on emtb and the category overall.
The pace of change is interesting as one could argue brands need to stop small marginal "improvements" and frequent Model Year changes / bold new colours. It'd keep costs lower.
Absolutely agreed. And the emtb warranties need to be at least 5 years as manufacturers do R&D Testing on their customers.
Finally someone said it. I would never spend 10k on an emtb, so i dont buy one.
Someone has to tell the twuth
I got a new Bergamont E-Trailster 150 Elite for 2199€.🎉🎉
There are a lot of bargains available at the moment, you just have to look hard enough.
This is the year of bargains for sure, and folks seem to be snatching them up. With peak buying season over I think there will be incredible deals during Black Friday and the holidays.
They should sale extended warranties on motors and batteries and all the electronics on new bikes that kick in after the factory warranty like they do on cars.
I would for sure pay a couple hundred extra to have my bike covered for extra years after the factory warranty since I can’t afford to buy a new bike every couple years.
That is a great, great idea.
One of the existing problems of the bike industry is they want you to get their new bike every 2-4 years. Not very nice and not very healthy for sure!!!!!
All I can say is ....BRAVO !
This video is for the media brave
I just bought an Ari Nebo peak on sale, and it was similar to price i just sold an indian FTR 1200 for... it is crazy... but i wanted carbon, great fit, lightweight, and the latest electronic shifting... Motorcycles they make one size, maybe 2 or 3 versions of suspension.
Really enlightening how many options there are for mountain bikes. And that all adds to the cost. That is a fine bike you got for sure and the options are endless. Ari is cool company that is consumer-direct and geared for future success.
I'm with you in hoping pricing will decrease in 2025. Top tier should be NO more than $10K and 'high end' should be well under that. IMO
I’m definitely starting to see it. Many will not be able to return to their pre-sale pricing.
Questions re ebike motors... Most have 2 year warranties, and it seems like a lot of folks' experience is that their motors will crash around that time... 1) what is the approximate cost of replacing the motor and 2) are last generation motors typically available a couple years down the road? The biggest issue with e-bikes is that the life span of the bike is much shorter than analog - unless you could replace the motor, if available and not too pricey...
If you are out of warranty, the replacement costs for the motor are around 700-1000 dollar usually, depends a bit, which model and which brand. Bosch is known for being accommodating, so if you have just run out of warranty recently, they might still cover it or give you a discount at least. But there are also repairing companies for the bigger brands and since there are millions of these bikes on the road, they will cover them for a while, because it will make them some good money. But there are also laws for it, the EU requires these companies to provide spare parts for at least 10 years -- correction: the law is not yet in place, it starts from 2026, but i guess the bigger brands are already prepared for it
@@e_mtb Thanks for the reply. I figured it would probably be in the neighborhood of $1k, which isn't too bad imo, especially given that the motor is the heart of an e-bike, and it's a reasonable price to pay given the alternative ie it's useful life is over....
Do you think most motors will be available for some time after a new generation has come out? Any thoughts re availability, more specifically, on the Fazua Ride60 - given that it reputedly has some reliability issues, yet is on a good number of SL bikes?
Yeah, the prices for the motor and the battery are high, but not insanely high, it's close to a proper suspension fork from fox or rockshox and people still buy fully bikes, so I would not be too scared about it, if it happens, it's not nice, but it's also no disaster financially (refurbished motors/batteries are even cheaper).
And yes, pretty sure the brands need to offer support even if there is a new generation coming out, I can't tell exactly how fazua handles it, but they are owned by porsche and automotive companies are usually having a good infrastructure for spare parts. They also just released a new battery and a new remote, so the system is still in production and parts will surely remain available for a while. And as you've mentioned a lot of (famous) brands are using it in very expensive bikes, so there is surely some support for a few more years. Their first model, the fazua evation, was released somewhat around 2018 and you still get all types of spare parts until now, because the refreshed version "ride 50" is backward compatible, might also be the case for the next fazua system, but of course that's just an assumption, cannot guarantee it
I dream of bicycles and scooters that are so different than anything that currently exists.
You dream in color then!
I agree with most of your points, especially the tool vs toy comparison and of course supply vs demand. In the end, consumers in this field are their own worst enemy - they eat up the ridiculous 5 or 10 gram savings on parts made with exotic materials, so manufacturers see that and keep aiming for the high end of the market. And for years, it seemed that it didn't matter how high they aimed, there would always be some buyer for their expensive goods. Well we've finally hit the top. That's going to force companies to pare back on some of this stuff to be able to cut costs, but it's going to be hard because once a company is used to some fat 30% margins, they won't be happy with "only" a 15% cut. This field has become like the audiophile industry where the gains are mostly nonexistent, and yet prices remain obnoxiously high because buyers are willing to pay them and not because of any other reason.
We're due for a healthy correction in the market. These are needed for a healthier bike economy and more participants.
I have four electric unicycles which are way more fun than riding electric mountain bikes, even though that has been my "go to" for the last 25 years. My four electric unicycles cost less than a single carbon fiber electric mountain bike. And again the fun factor is way higher than the best electric mountain bike out there.
Niche markets are key to the uniqueness and joy of cycling
the problem the bike manufacturers have now that they didnt have before is that this years and last years bikes are the same. there is no more travel to add or hta to slacken. i kinda think they wont get away with those margins anymore. i certainly wont buy one that hasnt been deeply discounted
Exactly we had so much progress and technology that the premium prices had an audience. But with modern bikes stabilizing (solid but stagnant), this game of 'millimeter changes' is not gonna get a lot of $12k buyers.
Yes it's a bit unbalanced and has been for ever, even when I owned my own shop (1989-2002) I couldn't understand the difference between a motorcross bike at $6k and a good MTB at $6k, just never made sense to me then or now,and it's still the same and the smile factor is always with the motorcycle, but I did just buy a Cube at 45% off 👍
Great share!!! With ebikes not at 40-50% off, the yare delivering good value!
Here In the UK, ebikes are cheap now, £5k gets you a very top spec bike 😆
Oh wow! Same here in the US. Every ebike is on sale. The fear though is the return to those hideous Retail prices.
Just because mountainbikes are different in some aspect doesnt mean it costs money and is a reason for the price difference.
True story. It’s not a Gucci bag!!
The used market isn’t worth a shit! MTB depreciates much faster than motorcycles. Plus you pay retail when the new bike is released but 8 months later the big brand cuts the price by 20-30%. Making you one year old bike worth 30% of what you paid for it 10 months ago.
The used market for the over $10k bikes was bad. Now, it is terrible. That's not good for turnover, upgrading and keeping the buying cycle going.
DJi might shake things up a bit with the emtb
It's gonna be crazy. If an Asian, Chinese manufacturer gets ahold of that motor and sells a bike for under $5k, that will shake the world. They are starting to have the manufacturing prowess on their own. And the suspension design/geometry is pretty standard now.
Ebikes need flexible warrantees based on milage and transferable to second owners. Otherwise the depreciation is massive as it is now. Got a question for you FC. How many miles should you reasonably expect out of an ebike motor? Is the life expectancy different between an SL motor and FP motor?
I know this much is true!!! They should last at least 5000 miles! Batteries too.
In my experience, Bosch Gen 4 motors and Levo SL motors last up to 10,000 miles. Shimano E8000 and EP8, about 5000. Levo Gen 2 motor about 1000, Levo Gen 3 motor about 2500. Fazua... 500 miles :)
The warranty on motor and battery SHOULD BE AT LEAST 5 YEARS. They are experimenting with us and using consumers for R&D but they're using old warranty policies made for pedal bikes.
@@EMTBReview Thanks! Similar to the auto industry that had to really extend a decent warranty to get consumer confidence back.
Avid moto and bike rider here. I don't get why bikes cost what they do.
Yeah, the motorcycle enthusiasts are really puzzled by bike pricing. That’s really what got me motivated to produce this video
I kept my old emtb and brought a new motorcycle instead of a new emtb. Cycle manufactures can go get *******
he just told you in this video
Some good points
But you have missed a few important points.
Motorcycle industry works on an average 10 - 15% margin.
Bicycle industry workers on an average of was 40% but now 30% margin
More bicycles are sold in the US than motorcycles.
Now motorcycles are sold as a whole motorcycle and all the components are covered by the motorcycle brand, if a component keeps failing or needs replacing under warranty?
This lets the motorcycle manufacturer get a discount for the next year’s range and saves a load of money as each component brand does not have to have its full service and warranty system like they do in the bicycle industry.
Bicycles are sold as the frame and the components because of this the bicycle industry cannot get discounts on the components as it’s driven by the component manufacturers not the brand manufacture of the bikes.
The system is so screwed up in the bicycle industry with so many people getting their fair share of money from each part of the industry and components .
The bicycle industry does need a shake up and needs to get more professional and start learning for motorcycle brands. How to get a better price to the Customer.
Very good points. Much thanks.
I talk about margins in the video motorcycle/dealer takes 15%/15% while bicycle takes 30% each.
More bicycles are sold but most of those are irrelevant to this discussion, aka under $500..
For components, bike manufacturers get huge discounts on them. Something very different though is components in the bike industry CAN get very expensive. They all have their own brand, marketing, race teams, etc. That all adds to the cost.
Thank you again. Moto industry is different but bike industry can learn a lot from it for sure.
The real price of the high components and overall os actually $1500
Always with the greed, what goes around comes around. Should still have brakes that work well, cheapo bikes set me on my path for a working system.
Very true! Market corrections exist for a reason and we haven't had one in bikes for a while.
Same goes with Luxury bags they just go with luxury by selling on performance etc etc. Thats why we need Chinese made product and remove the magic of luxury mindset and it is starting
So interesting fc! Love this conversation. At the heart of it, you are right. We, aka mountain bike consumers, keep demanding for lighter bikes, better shifting, better braking, better suspension and on and on. The time it takes to develop these products at such a pace mirrors the mobil phone industry, and people keep buying those phones! What I can say from within the industry is that I do not see excess wealth. On the contrary, I see industry employees struggling to keep up with the cost of living, let alone any sort of luxury lifestyles... The correction is already here. Many bikes are 40, 50+ % off and the new models coming in to replace them are a better value than prior models with similar spec. As for the high-end? That will continue to go up... Keep your eyes on lower priced options with killer performance to keep things more “real”. Best example is a Fox Performance-Elite that has the same features as Factory, but no gold...
Spoiler, our customers don’t buy the P-E model. They want the gold!!
Great comment man. You are making it happen, always.
As the pace of tech, progress and bling stabilize on regular mtbs, it will be harder to justify the high prices as folks won't feel the need to upgrade.
Emtbs will see rapid development. Less pursuit of weight, better warranties are key to keeping consumers happy buying.
not exercising is expensive! 😝 Health is Wealth!
That's why, we gotta get more folks into the bike thing. Make it attainable and welcoming!
you talk about motorcycles 'on a stable platform that does not change much. There has been a heap of changes, generally in a 3 year cycle. Alos KTM does have other colours ( generally two colours) KAwasaki has a host of colours other than green
Thank you for the insight.
Can get a great used full sus for 2k. No real need to pay new prices.
Examples, please, and links. It may how many viewers out.
Thats it, I’m selling my Exie and buying the KTM.
Proof positive right there
🤔 Only the expensive ones are expensive. I've never paid that much even for a car!!!
There's a Gucci segment to the market. Too much attention and spotlight on it is being pushed to the mountain biker.
@@EMTBReview I hear you on that one!
The prices are crazy high. But we keep paying it. How dumb are we?
You might want to rethink your supply and demand chart...
Quite sure you didn't characterise bikes as Veblen goods.
Explain please
In your chart demand goes up with the price. The labels should be switched and the demand should move down left for the lower price
I’d take the Ducati
Is that your final answer?
Because there enough people willing to pay these crazy prices! It really is as simple as that
Isn’t there a law about that?
I want to bring stainless steel frames😅
Just need to market it!
When the tariffs are implemented prices will rise even more. Not only on bikes but on pretty much everything.
Using tariffs is highly damaging. Use only when absolutely necessary.
Mountain bike = nature = mental and physical health = like an apple a day.. and that motorbike = bay area traffic and mental stress and high probability of getting hit by morons.
Let's remember there is a power to weight ratio in this discussion. Lighter materials are needed for a human powered vehicle and they cost more. Another big factor, many bike components are their own brand vs a supplied component. You don't see Showa, KYB, and WP marketing those forks and shocks doing videos tuning info and such. Not even a logo. Most bike brands are plug and play parts that brands develop, test and have to own the warranty/service. Not the case on a motorcycle. Lots and lots more differences too.
Thank you, thank you. Beautiful insight there. Why are motorcycles not as component-centric? Not so many brake and suspension options for a bike model? The motos sell themselves without the push of fancy spec?
Pretty mind-blowing how many permutations there are in bikes when it comes to sizes, colors, spec, All adds to the cost. Are we chasing rainbows?
@@EMTBReview On moto's the manufacturer is responsible for the entire machine and testing. If I need a brembo brake part or a WP suspension seal, I get that part from KTM in a nice part number schematic from an online dealer. So they have a much better cost understanding. On a moto, the triple clamps are designed and made by the manufacturer, not Showa. moto fork tubes are half the cost of mtb. Same for the rear shock.
The project team for the moto's is primarily let by the manufacturing and purchasing team and less product management/marketing. Much different from bicycles. But it's going to change in the future. E-bikes are the gateway.
This wreaks of victim blaming. Just sayin
Possibility! Who is the victim by the way?