I like both johns. They are both very good teachers. We as humans are sinful and we don't have the answers to everything. So please don't hate on either of these men who have devoted there lives to preaching the word of God. They may disagree on one point of view but that's ok because we are all sinful humans and we are not perfect. When Jesus comes back we will be with HIM and He will explain everything. Amen? I love John macauthur because he's like a sword that strikes the heart when we need that hard word. And I love John piper because he's the other side of the sword that strikes the heart aswell. The bible was never meant to be a "make you feel good" book. Its Gods word. And Gods word is difficult to swallow sometimes. As for me I believe that the only power we have in today's world is the word of God. Nothing more nothing less.
Love Both Johns!! This isn’t a feud, these are loving brothers in Christ who are the rock solid preachers of America alive today. We are so blessed unbelievably by Christ work through them. With that said, John, I listen to you every day - it is of course right to observe Prophecy unfolding in many ways. And this is actually one major reason WHY I love your ministry, because you DO speak on what is priority and what God has so obviously led you towards: and you’ve met a need in the Body of Christ to edify us in TRUTH: Point being that we God knows we live in heretical times overflowing mega churches of prosperity gospel heretics, and we need men like Piper to be Lights POWERFULLY and authoritatively stand against that and proclaim the sound orthodox view of evangelicalism. I was raised in a large church that split over a rapid radical transition to Pentecostal: teaching classes on “How to speak in tongues”, and teens were given spiritual “gifts” tests to see what their “gift” was, I had a 15yr old girl tell me she was a “prophet” cuz she scored that results on the test... so growing up in an environment like that, you see how the “higher gifts” are so easily and rampantly being abused and falsely proclaimed that we need a Pilar of truth to stand to show us what God says on this. So thank you Piper for helping us have a balanced and sound doctrine through your ministry and Christ work through you. I agree w Piper that the word is 100% breathed word of God through the inspired writers, perfectly preserved for the church, and that it is as relevant today as yesterday: we too believe that the higher gifts should be desired: but in humility and truth, only through the spirit, in the biblical context. Tongues being translateable w witnesses to edify; not mumbo jumbo that doesn’t edify anyone but only magnifies the “gifted person’s” pride. Prophecy has many ways of being manifested in the believer I agree. Visions, dreams, and thoughts that are not our own bit of Him that piece into our heart mind and soul God’s Word, those are facets of prophecy I agree. Whether that makes one a prophet, I would not so quickly say. Being a prophet is risky business for a fake, because a truth committed church should be able to sniff out a false prophet after 1 strike, based on scripture that if the prophets prophecy doesn’t come to pass the way he said, he is a false prophet. So to hold one in regard to BEING a prophet, that SHOULD be risky for a deceiver, but unfortunately there’s ppl who believe this “being spiritual” side of what they call Christianity which so often rubs shoulders with New Age in those types of “churches”. We need sound teachers like Piper AND MacArthur to help light our path through these tangled webs of lying thieves of apostates.
+Andrew Maintainence & Repair Fiend "God knows we live in heretical times overflowing mega churches of prosperity gospel heretics, " YOU might want to learn from Piper not to blaspheme the work the Holy Spirit is doing among MOST of those you cultishly condemn as 'prosperity heretics'; my guess is they are far closer to Biblical correctness that you are - they simply LIVE what the BIBLE promises. Their contribution to the Kingdom of God on this earth is gigantic - overshaddowing by many times their critics meager efforts to see the Kingdom of GOD advance. YOU may NOT like them - BUT God does and that is what is important. :Personally, I want to love those that GOD loves . . . God blesses those that speak FAITH - rather than doubt - ACCORDING to your FAITH be it unto you. The difference? between YOU and THEM They preach faith.
+Andrew Maintainence & Repair Fiend YOU again blaspheme the Spirit of GOD: "Tongues being translateable w witnesses to edify; not mumbo jumbo that doesn’t edify anyone but only magnifies the “gifted person’s” pride." How ignorant you appear of the scriptures - there are THREE uses for tongues in the NT - the one Paul expected each believer to enjoy was private worship and singing with tongues - certainly NOT something that could be an issue of pride in your own prayer closet. DO you read the BIBLE at all? Even the apostles were accused of mumbo jumbo - BUT in fact those languages they spoke were REAL languages - I defy you to attempt to rationally prove that ANY "tongues" you may hear is "mumbo jumbo" YOU cannot. As a traveler - I can assure you that the markets of Bombay would seem like mumbo jumbo to you - yet the nation buys and sells in the "chaos" of this mumbo jumbo. I was with a group at Seatac airport a few years back and we were praying about midnight before boarding. An oriental gentleman in his 50s or so came up to us and began speaking Chinese - he was rather baffled that we could NOT understand him - He had heard us speaking in his mountain dialect from Taiwan - and understood perfectly what we were saying. YOU ought NOT despise the workings of the HOLY Spirit rand place you limited knowledge against his INFINITE knowledge. I suppose you have NO understanding of anything other than ENGLISH - IF you were bilingual you would realize the nonsense of your statement.
++Andrew Maintainence & Repair Fiend "so growing up in an environment like that, you see how the “higher gifts” are so easily and rampantly being abused and falsely proclaimed" Again you attack what you seeming refuse to understand - HOW can it be wrong to know what NATURAL Gifts GOD has enabled you to make use of in your life? WHY attempt to be a teacher when you gave NO ability to express yourself clearly? WHY attempt to be an organizer when you cannot sort out your wallet? Is that NOT what the BIBLE plainly teaches - that we are to KNOW our Gifts and Calling? And be CONFIDENT in it? And since when does being prophetic lead to pride? There is NO such thing as a proud prophet - there may be CONFIDENT prophets - as they ALL need to be - but Pride? I have found more cessationists proud of their humility that any of the prophets of the perhaps hundred or so I have known.
++Andrew Maintainence & Repair Fiend YOU confuse the OT prophets with the NY prophet - again you lack simple basic Biblical understanding. "Being a prophet is risky business for a fake, because a truth committed church should be able to sniff out a false prophet after 1 strike, based on scripture that if the prophets prophecy doesn’t come to pass the way he said, he is a false prophet. YOU seeming ignore there were SCHOOLS for prophets in the OT - because you do NOT normally wake up one morning and be a prophet with a perfect track record. Samuel had YEARS of training before his first correct prophesy - the ONLY ones recorded were the ones he got right. Ballim on the other hand had wicked motives - BUT still could NOT prophesy wrongly. In the NT - prophesy is quite different - and there are groups of prophets that JUDGE the accuracy of the prophesy being given. There is NO stoning of the NT prophets - and no shame in being wrong. Again - your Biblical literacy and denominational cultism seem to have overs shaddows tour ability to rightly divide the WORD of GOD "but unfortunately there’s ppl who believe this “being spiritual” side of what they call Christianity which so often rubs shoulders with New Age in those types of “churches”."" That is a deliberate, and UNPROVABLE, lie. NOT only is it rare if al all - BUT I have never encountered it is the 100's of churches I have been to. Care to cite even ONE example?
@@paulrobinson9318 I think the issue is false prophets. We see many in the Scriptures. And we see the destruction of those who trusted them instead of God’s Word and the true prophets. You must ask yourself this: Are there still prophets who speak in the same way as the prophets in the Bible? If so, the canon isn’t complete and the Bible needs added to. Personally I’m not a cessationist, but this is a massive ordeal.
@@WeWantYouToStay I agree the only thing I am staunchly against now is prophecy, especially new revelation especially in this time revelation from God should directly reflect His word not what's going to happen in your life ( nothing to be added ) the issue of tongues whilst I disagree i am willing to be open too but in these dark times we must be United among essential doctrines In the age of COVID-19 we must not be divisive especially now
+jhrdcchtgvdskujhb The TEACHING of the BIBLE is plain. "the only thing I am staunchly against now is prophecy," GOD set prophets in the church - and others such as teachers and apostles - but you claim this is your issue - and to hold your position you MUST ignore and oppose scripture. "especially new revelation" "of course there will be NEW revelation - the 2000 year old prophesies do NOT deal with our issues or events today. NOR is prophesy today ADDING to SCRIPTURES - we have the example of Agabus CONFIRMING - NOT warning - Paul of his impending imprisonment in Rome - establishing what GOD had told Paul previously. I have been through many similar situations - one example where a prophet told me that what I was attempting would be terribly difficult but I would hear 'and now my whole family have come to know Christ' and KNOW I am in the center of God's will. And after three years of incredible hardship - and often wondering where GOD was .. I heard a lady give that testimony of the labor I had been involved in. God ALWAYS has his prophets. The majority of the Armenians that survived the Massacre at the turn of the century exist today because of a series of PROPHETS providing them maps and how to escape just before the genocide - those that did NOT heed the prophets were slaughtered. The story is in the Book 'Happiest People on Earth' if you can find a copy - I'm sure it is available from many other sources as well. God ALWAYS has His prophets. "especially in this time revelation from God should directly reflect His word" IT always should be in LINE with his word - BUT His word does NOT tell you to go into a specific ministry, etc - or that you should move somewhere for a purpose you cannot know at the time. The SCRIPTURE could not give you specifics - hence GOD provided prophets. Eph 4:11 "And he himself gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, that is, to build up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God-a mature person, attaining to the measure of Christ’s full stature." This tells us when those offices established in the church will cease . . . and why they are ESSENTIAL teaching. "not what's going to happen in your life ( nothing to be added )" You misuse this passage - it prohibits changing the message already given by adding or subtracting from it - also in Deut 4:2 - "You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you. " . . . . and we have 61 BOOKS added to it by the HOLY SPIRIT after that was given. SO it does NOT mean what you use it to mean. Your statement is based on ignorance, NOT knowledge, of Scripture. That is the very REASON for prophets. " the issue of tongues whilst I disagree i am willing to be open too" How can you disagree with the plain teaching of SCRIPTURE? The very words of Jesus - in Mark 16:17? The BIBLE teaches 3 (or 4) necessities for tongues in the Christian church. ALL essential. And you ignore them? "but in these dark times we must be United among essential doctrines In the age of COVID-19 we must not be divisive especially now" And in so saying YOU are divisive. WHO decides what are essential doctrines? IN this day of pestilence - the gift of Prophesy is more needed in the church than ever - and the Christian edification of speaking in tongues in their devotion to God is essential. (1 Cor 14:4, Jude 20) " 2 For the one speaking in a tongue does not speak to people but to God, for no one understands; he is speaking mysteries by the Spirit. . . He that speaks in an unknown tongue edifies Himself . . ." www.gospel.org.nz/index.php/articles/articles-by-rodney/215-ten-reasons-to-speak-in-tongues
I continue to grow in the teachings of both Piper and MacArthur. I had no real understanding of or acceptation of charismatic gifts or even believed that speaking in tongues was real until it happened to me. The initial experience (in 2002) was so profound that I often refer to it as my “PROOF” of God’s divine presence and power in the lives of His people. I say “proof” as opposed to Faith which of course, is what we as believers have in Christ Jesus our Faithful King. It was so supernatural yet so real but totally outside of material explanation that I am comfortable calling it “Proof”. I do lean towards Piper more though simply because he seems to have a level of humility that MacArthur SEEMS to be missing. Peace be with you and God bless! Endorse: David Wilkerson, Derek Prince…
Nothing wrong with spiritual gifts but charismatic often try and force them and will frequently fake them, not only is this foolish but also a sin. We shouldn't live our life's chasing after super power but after him who is all powerful. I would say my gift is discerning of spirits but I wasn't searching for it specifically and was simply trying to get closer to Christ.
Very measured, reasonable, rational and respectable response from one spiritual giant of this generation to another. No one person has the last interpretive authoritative word on God's revelation. Much grace is extended and I pray it is received in love. God bless both of them.
I love both these men of God. I was a cessationist but now believe the Gifts still exist. I came to this through prayer primarily but also certain experiences I have had. I was an atheist or 38 years or so and initially approached my faith theologically and the Holy Spirit convinced me that I should lean out of theology and into faith. Best advice I've ever had as now I see a richness in God's word alone and not in man's interpretation of it. Peace in Christ ✝️
John Macauthur basically said in the conference that charismatics are demon possessed and not apart of the body of Christ. I believe there are extremes on both sides. One side is dead legalism and other is charismatic excess and possibly even blasphemous manifestations of something not of God. I grew up in a charismatic church revival setting. I’m 33 and I’m just so confused about everything these days, I don’t know who to trust or believe. I don’t understand why God reveals scripture differently to people in so radical ways. Even the process of salvation is disagreed upon, i grew up with the Arminian view of salvation that basically depended on my will and acts of repentance, my church even recommended getting saved over and over again “to make sure”. I did not fair so well with those teachings and I’m still not sure of the state of my soul. I am trying to find the truth in Christ and now I have stumbled upon the view that there are elect individuals who are predestined for salvation and it doesn’t depend on them whatsoever if they are saved, the saving faith is from God alone and not dependent on their actions. I’m honestly just incredibly confused. My main thoughts at this time is that I have sinned too much in the face of the grace of God and God has given me up, in the Arminian view that could be true but not in the Calvinistic view so far as I can understand. I think the only one that could possibly convince me is if Christ told me himself but even then I would probably disbelieve the feelings, visions or emotions as hysteria. Please pray for me that I will find the truth in Christ, be freed from sin and find rest for my soul through true scriptural faith. This is my prayer. Perhaps it is faith in Christ alone and I will never have assurance, but this thought seems to disagree with scripture that says we are not saved unless we have assurance...I just don’t know.
Exhumed Gaming , believing on the Christ, the anointed one. And believing He was the first of the resurrection is all that is required. Do you believe? I was reared in Charismatic/Pentecostal culture, but love John Piper and any who teach sound doctrine. I will also refer you to Robert Morris of Gateway church in Texas. His series on The God I Never Knew is excellent. Hope this helps.
After reading John Mcarthur's sermons and interpretation of the Bible, I already have doubt whether I am saved and many people.. And I feel like the only way to not be lukewarm is to boldly preach the Gospel
I hope you found your way and made peace in this as I can completely relate. It took me on a journey that was for the better. I’ve grown since and gained much understanding. Hoping you had a similar outcome God bless
Well how often do you read you bible? The people that struggle the most with salvation are the ones that barely listen to the word of god aka bible. You also by this point should be able to see how much you've grown since you became a Christian, if you're still the same person (committing the same sins as you were all those years ago) then you should be very, very afraid. If you see how much you've grown and become better ex. More loving, trusting, wise, patient, humble then you're most likely saved.
One of the main reasons i gave my life to the Lord is because of the spiritual things. Experiences. It always trips me up with ppl say those days are over. BUT i still believe John Mcarthur is an AMAZING teacher. Just that part is kinda crazy for me to hear.
+@@christiantompkins6423 That of course is ONE reason - NOT the main reason. Salvation is to spread the Kingdom of GOD on EARTH - NOT only to escape hell.
MacArthur's entire teachings and paradigm of the BIBLE and Christianity is affected by his cultic and unbiblical cessationism. IT influences every thing he teaches - Although he is knowledgeable in Scripture - he is not WISE in scripture. HE needs to repent and begin to preach the WHOLE gospel. NO man can oppose the plain teaching of Scripture and be wise in it. His vicious and ungodly attacks on those that disagree (by accepting the ENTIRE gospel) with him are NOT from GOD. I leave the rest to you.
I am a cessationist like Dr. McArthur, but, if I was to turn out to be mistaken, then I would fully expect for the gifts of the spirit to function in the manner Dr. Piper described. I have immense respect for both pastors and exponentially more points of agreement than disagreement with them.
I love listening to both Pastors! They both have bIblical points. This is where the individual (Christian) is responsible for obedience & practice of this doctrine.
ALL OF YOU must watch the MacArthur/Piper conference video. They are like Jhon and Pedro Exactly same personality! They are great God's warriors I love both of them. May God bless them both
Martin Luther put it like this: "If I profess with the loudest voice and clearest exposition every portion of the truth of God except precisely that little point which the world and the devil are at that moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ, however boldly I may be professing Christ. Where the battle rages, there the loyalty of the soldier is proved, and to be steady on all the battlefield besides is mere flight and disgrace if he flinches at that point. "
@@benvindatati Amen. I agree! "Let us make three tabernacles, one for Thee, one for Luther, and one for Calvin." While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
@@AnHebrewChildhey please don’t blaspheme God and misuse His word like that in a manner that is mocking or joking, God will not hold anyone guiltless who takes His name in vain.
@@FirstnameLastname77777 that's not at all blaspheming. God is my Judge. I didn't replace JESUS' holy name with Luther & Calvin, but only other fallen men's names. The ones who disrespect God are those who treat the reformers like they are our shepherd. Be blessed.
Christian courage is the willingness to say and do the right thing regardless of the earthly cost, because God promises to help you and save you on account of Christ.
I haven’t come down hard on either side but I do have a question for cessationists. I believe you would say that you see in scripture the cessation of the gifts, also due to the closing of the canon. Also, some say the historical record shows no gifts at work. I assume a person is a cessation also because they’ve never witnessed a genuine manifestation of those gifts. How much of a role does that play in that position? Thanks
Why out of nowhere is John MacArthur getting slammed and getting name called by everyone?? People in the comments on other videos are being extremely disrespectful. John piper and John MacArthur are men of God.
+@@born2win259 Really? Lets start with Bill Johnson, Todd White, Joel Osteen, Dan Mohen, the thousands of NAR preachers - which include, I think, my last 4 pastors as I have moved around . . . etc.
Paul Robinson Joel Osteen is a motivational preacher. Doesn’t preach the true gospel from scripture. He sugar coats the word that is made to convict us and cause us to repent. I don’t know much of the others.
+@@born2win259 Again you accept gossip rather than TRUTH. "Paul Robinson Joel Osteen is a motivational preacher." SO was Jesus much of the time. "Doesn’t preach the true gospel from scripture." A assertion you cannot support and is factually false. " He sugar coats the word that is made to convict us and cause us to repent. I don’t know much of the others. " Again - you listen to Gossip. Those that are already in the KINGDOM have NO need to repent again - those that are looking at the Gospel, have already repented or they would NOT be looking. YOU need to read Heb 2 - 1 and 2: "6 Therefore we must progress beyond the elementary instructions about Christ and move on to maturity, not laying this foundation again: repentance from dead works and faith in God, 2 teaching about ritual washings, laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And this is what we intend to do," Every service he gives a chance for the repentant to come to Christ. In many weekday events he teaches and disciples them. YOU simply attack what you cannot and do not KNOW!!l. I think what you REALLY mean is that he does IT DIFFERENT than YOUR church - and YOU assume they are doing it right. When you can bring as many people to salvation as Osteen - get back to me . . . Meantime you ought to listen to a couple of his messages - he, like Jesus majors on the GOSPEL - the GOOD news - the sinner already KNOWS he needs saving. The discouraged need the GOOD news - and Osteen meets BOTH groups needs each Sunday. He is NOT my favorite preacher - BUT most of the accusations against him are false . . so I defend him against the lies spread by the neoPharisees..
The mistake I see in the comments is that, John Macarthur is not saying these things dont happen, hes saying that there arent people walking around who have that gift at their fingers tips. Do heals happen? Yes. Are there people walking around who can heal at will; people who possess the gift of healing? Absolutely not or they would be all over the news or should be at the hospitals doing ministry work. What a testimony that would be! Only the Apostles could do that. Another example, people who say they can prophecy, Deuteronomy 18 makes it clear, if the prophet is wrong even once you shall not fear him. I am absolutely stunned at the amount of Christians who watch prophecy youtubers who have proven they aint prophets according to that chapter's standard. Especially all the ones saying Trump would be in the white house one 2020. They were wrong, but still have a platform as biblical prophets. I think we need to start holding people to a biblical standard instead of just giving all these people passes. Just a side note. In short, no one is denying miracles, cessessionists just deny people who claim to have the gifts of the Apostles. I just had to comment due to the lack of understanding of the term in the comments. It's like when people talk about Calvinists, but have no understanding of what it means to be a Calvinist. They dont follow John Calvin, they just hold to the 5 pillars. If you hold to them, you are a Calvinist as well. Learn the terms by the book, not the definitions of random people. Hopes this helps. Grace and peace.
+David YOU have that EXACTLY backwards. "John MacArthur stands on far firmer biblical ground. The TBN crowd has made a mockery of the Lord. " JMA has edited out the parts of the gospel that BRING revival and salvation - mocked the WORDS of JESUS in Mark 16, the Gifts of GOD to the CHURCH in Eph 4, and the personal Gifts of the HOLY SPIRIT in 1 Cor 12 - 15 -0 HOW then can you say he's on FIRMER Biblical ground than someone that teaches the ENTIRE Bible from COVER to COVER? That's insanity. It MAY be demonic.
That's a false dichotomy. MacArthur vs TBN. Who cares what either of them do or say? They may well both be wrong, as the Pharisees and Sadducees were each different but both wrong. WHAT DOES JESUS SAY? Period.
What did Pastor John mean at 5:12 when he said he is “trying to make judgment calls about proportion of importance?” Just curious. Thank you! I love Pastor John and his material.
I think he was implying that whilst the gifts of the Spirit are important, they perhaps aren’t at the forefront with teaching and preaching the gospel of Christ in the church, in order to save souls and edify believers.
Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith... These men were not raised and discipled to believe in the full counsel of God regarding the strict Biblical standards of "the prophetic" in the new testament church, so wherever they are, and they are not far from the kingdom in these areas, they are closer than most.
jose flores it’s because talking about or disagreeing about speaking in tongues are secondary issues in scripture and not primary issues like the divinity of Christ, doctrine of hell, the plan of Salvation, God’s Sovereignty etc. Secondary issues will not make pastors false teachers. But, the latter will. Is it clearer? :)
@@marcellomorena9156but when people are teaching someone contrary to Scripture regarding the gifts, we're supposed to just leave it alone and say "secondary issue*?
I think that His interpretation and his spirit were dead on. And I think Pastor John Piper (who's ministry in the Word has been a huge blessing toe personally) proved MacArthur's point by his own statement of what prophecy means. If He's not seeking a new word from the Lord but rather the RIGHT word from the Lord then that is obviously not what any charismatic continuationist believes but Piper won't condemn them for constantly claiming new words with authority from God that are as accurate as the weather report. I Love Pastor Piper but he needs to not make room for the ungodly "prophecy" that is rampant.
@@joe86johnson There are also ungodly deniers of the Bible.... meaning people who don't follow 1 Corinthians 14:1, 1 Corinthians 12:31 for example. We need to make sure the church that we attend does not ignore these verses of the BIble
Earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, and forbid the speaking in stupid pagan utterances that aren't real languages, and that mess up people's common sense. Okay, okay, I cannot give you one pet verse of Scripture for this, but to a lot of us, it is the wisdom of the hour.
Read. 2 Timothy 2 15. You have all the answers you need. All in bible answers it self. Just study. I have mcAuthur McGEE. Vine and William Henry. And others. Books. All give examples of other verses that explains a verse in whole bible. Yes take some grain of salt of there comments. But as God in prayer of wisdom what God wants you to know. I teach the bible. I give verses to answer verses. Also like Les Feldick teachings. He us the best if all. Praise God in all things of God's word.
I can tell you that you need to be very careful when you criticize a move of the Holy Spirit as was with the Charismatic Movement or any other for that matter. I have been touched by the latter rain/Charismatic revival tailings 40 years after it happened with Gerald Derstine in 1955 on the White Earth Indian Reservation in Strawberry Lake MN when I visited Amos Stolzfus and his disciple John Miller prayed for me to receive the Holy Spirit, at first I didn't feel anything, later like boiling water in my stomach flowed living water and when it erupted from my spirit to my mouth my tongue spoke in angelic language, my mind and ears heard what my tongue could not control but my natural mind got the better of me so I stopped it after 7 words and I regret because it was so beautiful, but yet I was in control of the flow to let it continue or not. I went to a tent revival meeting in California connected to the Toronto Blessing, was touched, laughed, felt the weightiness of God's presence, the same night dreamed and saw a Cornerstone with a seal having circles within circles, I broke it and saw on the other side in the Spirit Ezekiel the prophet in the middle of stairs looking at the sand on the beach as lightning struck the sand 4 times, each time the sand broke into clumps that went north, south, east, and west. This refers to 4 revivals that will take place. I have had prophetic dreams since childhood in my mothers own handwriting and dated, even the Lord showing me 11 years before 9-11 in Jan 1990 what would take place. If you don't know, its better to leave it alone. Experiences back up the word of God and these revivals are a continuation of what was prophesied through Joel. Would you also call what happened on the day of Pentecost strange fire? Would you limit the Holy Spirit move only to what happened with the first Apostles which has been confirmed in signs and wonders as a continuation of the ministry of the Holy Spirit? Would you deny the prophet Joel and the application of scriptures as it relates to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit? In keeping with the context of scripture as it relates to Acts Chapter 2 as the prophet Joel speaks, "whosoever" you are going to now qualify who and who cannot receive a touch from the Holy Spirit or how Abraham who surrounded by idols was called out from his familiar home, you will generalize and say all Catholics cannot receive the Holy Spirit, what about some, do they count as part of "all flesh" that Joel speaks of? Or how about David when he danced before the presence of the Lord expressing Himself in reckless abandon, wildly worshiping God, his wife Michal 2nd Samuel 6:23 was barren and never bore children, are you going to say King David had a Kundalini spirit, or don't you know that Satan always copies the real and counterfeits it? You cannot have a ministry without the Holy Spirit so if you criticize a move of the Holy Spirit, grieve and come close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit, only by your ignorance would God be merciful to you by discrediting the ministry of the Holy Spirit in these revivals and attributing it to Satan are you not carnal and blind? Would it be out of the question that God would honor His work and leave fruit that remains? Look at the fruit of some revivalists like Gerald Derstine, he was raised of 10,000 churches around the world, Rodney Howard Browne, raising up thousands of evangelists around the world.
Whatever you experienced was not the holy spirit, you said you couldn't control your tongue and mouth yet when the holy spirit acts you are able to control it, in fact wasn't it at pentacost where either Paul or Peter said that if you prophecy or speak in tongues to take turns and wait? That's because the holy spirit doesn't make you lose bodily functions. You don't need the gift of discerning spirits (which I have, and no, I'm not a charismatic nor do I wanna be) but a simple understanding of the bible is all that is needed to separate demonic experiences with divine experiences, for we are told to test peoples words and experiences with the bible.
@@elijahnegron337 For the sake of standing for what the Lord did for me that day, I present my experience and yes open to scrutiny. That's ok and I ask God to give you His Grace to understand his plan for your life, along with being open to His move of the Spirit. As far as biblical precidence, Jesus said out of your bellys shall flow rivers of living water, thats what happened to me at that moment.
@May The Lord Bless This Ministry What I had at that moment was free will. Unfortunately I didn't cooperate with the move of the Spirit to allow Him to be expressed through me at that moment. God will not override our will, so at that moment hearing those angelic words proceed from my mouth, in the natural mind, I choose not to continue to cooperate with the move of the Spirit. That is what is so powerful about our will. Self Control applies to virtue, so I think in this context it is being taken out of context. May the Lord Jesus bless you none the less and reveal what He wishes for your life.
@@StallionFernando Let me ask you something Sushi Uchiha. Have you been born again by believing in the finished work of Jesus Christ? If so, at that moment when you received Jesus or any moment thereafter, have you ever felt the presence of God? If so, was it a sovereign act of God or something you were able to control on your part? Do you see where I am going with this? When God chooses to touch your life, its because you have already cooperated with God by opening your heart to him. That day, someone prayed for me and I asked for the Holy Spirit to come into my life in a greater way. If you surrender your life completely to Jesus then He can use you through a devine inspired thought, or any other way He chooses. This experience was in private and wasn't for everyone anyway, I'm only mentioning it to be faithful to what the Lord did for me that day. John 7:38 says "Anyone who believes in me may come and drink! For the Scriptures declare, ‘Rivers of living water will flow from his heart. with Luke 6:45 "A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of." I can tell you what God deposited in my heart that day was so good, that when that river like a geyser eruped from my belly to my mouth, the overflow of what was in my heart was expressed in a language so beautiful, I only wish I would have never let it stop. Yet after 7 words, I had control to stop it and I did to my regret. Before you judge Sushi Uchiha, I would ask that you seek God in a matter first. I forgive you as the Lord does, yet be careful, because our words do have power. I would give you a word of advice, make with absolute certainty if you are going to pass judgment on something like this that you are absolutely sure that what you are saying is right; otherwise, I recommend to refrain from commenting. Lord Jesus if I have caused someone to stumble over the experience you gave me please forgive me if sharing this online has caused an offense to anyone, that was not my intention. I pray you would reveal yourself and give your peace and understanding Lord to all those who read this. I pray they will not limit your power like I did that day, and for that reason, so many never come to a deeper richer experience in you. I pray the best for Sushi Uchiha and everyone here, they are my brothers and sisters in Christ and you know I love them. Help them all Lord Jesus in so much as I too need your help, In Jesus name I pray amen.
Jhon MacArthur says Christians can loose there salvation is this a false teaching Im sorry I need to pull him up on this BUT He has so much knowledge with other sermons at the same time!! My opinion is EG; the church in revelations that Jesus rebukes into repentance for not having love. And I believe he’s false teaching a Christian cannot loose his salvation. I got so many verses to prove this. Does someone want to respond to this and say there feeling on this??
If you follow what JESUS says then who cares what some self appointed "shepherds " say. Jesus said "there shall be one fold, and ONE shepherd." Period. End of. And JESUS is very clear in what he teaches (for those with ears to hear.) _ Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? **But he answered and said,** Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. Sasha Bozovich, just keep following KING JESUS, and be blessed.
Well, friends, I guess Christ was wrong when He ask, who is my mother, sister, or brother, but he that doeth the will of My Father, the Bible when It said "Contend for the Faith" or Peter when he preached the first Gospel sermon and said look you all killed the Son of God" read all of ACTS 2. Once we have been baptized and told to keep the Apostles doctrine. Folks does that mean we are to extend the right hand of fellowship to everyone? We are to be nice, yes but I don't think Paul or any of the other inspired writers would say lets just agree to disagree like John and John but to be ONE like God and Christ are ONE. All The "C of C is saying is Two out three is not enough but by people at least trying to learn what to do and how to do it Christ's blood which we come in contact with covers us in all points that we can't, but even it if we only have one talent and don't use it all deals are off the table... Hey folks I'm no theologian but my best Friend was a carpenter's son and some fishermen, and a few others who walked with me (about 40 or so) through life. Need a cup of cold water, you got it. You need a dance partner, not on my resume.
Why do Calvinist lack so much faith it's kind of embarrassing and if God is the same, Jesus is the same, then shouldn't the Holy Spirit be the same? Sad.
It’s because many Christians will become so enamored by the gifts of the Spirit that they begin to use them unbiblically and then lead to the influence of others unbiblically. I still believe in the gifts, but I am able to listen to John MacArthur and understand his perspective
My great-great grandmother was a devout Pentecostal all her known life. Her "gift" was that, despite being illiterate, she could read the Bible like we do. No prophecies, tongues, et cetera. Any other book, the woman was clueless about. She was married off to a nominal Baptist as a teenager, which might have been why my mother and aunt held/hold onto fringe elements from the charismatic movement, I became ill at sixteen-years-old, and ultimately turned physically disabled. Mama had/has a friend I knew/have known since early childhood. A Church of God congregant, my mother took me to that lady's church. I was sat on a chair, hands soon placed on my head and shoulders. The women babbled incoherently. We then took Holy Communion. I left hopeful that the pleading of the blood of Jesus worked. As a now 28-year-old man, I don't think the apostolic powers exist anymore. God working Old Testament miracles and scant ones throughout the New Testament by the Son was to validate who Christ really was/is. The Lord's revelation was/is closed via Scripture. Do I think Jesus could/can heal me? Of course! Still, it may not be His plan for my life (look at Paul's "thorn in the flesh"). Rev. John Piper has preached more on suffering in Christian existence than any other Reformed minister I've observed on You Tube. I appreciate that. But, he (Piper) was/is an example quite different than most charismatics in my generation, certainly. Rev. Wayne Grudem would be a similar man. The "New Apostolic Reformation" trend embraced by so many continuationists is very frightening to hear and see, I side with Rev. MacArthur, Jr. in all honesty. He did clarify his stances shortly after the Strange Fire Conference. I haven't a link off the top of my head, yet you could peruse this platform and find it. Us Christians possess plentiful faith. Ending, why was this particular podcast uploaded to You Tube as if it were new? Piper already reacted to MacArthur, Jr.'s comments some years ago. I remember the video.
Institutio Christianae Religionis I don't need to take a staff I'll ask God to teleport me like he did to the apostles or I'll walk on water Jesus Christ said it himself we will do greater things then him.
JesusIsMagnificent Firstly, you're misinterpreting the Bible. And that disqualifies you for half of the things you're claiming to and would've removed any blessing from you. Secondly, that argument isn't what we're arguing.
Love both of the Johns. I am not a cessationist but I learn so much from John M.
I like both johns. They are both very good teachers. We as humans are sinful and we don't have the answers to everything. So please don't hate on either of these men who have devoted there lives to preaching the word of God. They may disagree on one point of view but that's ok because we are all sinful humans and we are not perfect. When Jesus comes back we will be with HIM and He will explain everything. Amen? I love John macauthur because he's like a sword that strikes the heart when we need that hard word. And I love John piper because he's the other side of the sword that strikes the heart aswell. The bible was never meant to be a "make you feel good" book. Its Gods word. And Gods word is difficult to swallow sometimes.
As for me I believe that the only power we have in today's world is the word of God. Nothing more nothing less.
Very well put.
Love Both Johns!! This isn’t a feud, these are loving brothers in Christ who are the rock solid preachers of America alive today. We are so blessed unbelievably by Christ work through them. With that said, John, I listen to you every day - it is of course right to observe Prophecy unfolding in many ways. And this is actually one major reason WHY I love your ministry, because you DO speak on what is priority and what God has so obviously led you towards: and you’ve met a need in the Body of Christ to edify us in TRUTH: Point being that we God knows we live in heretical times overflowing mega churches of prosperity gospel heretics, and we need men like Piper to be Lights POWERFULLY and authoritatively stand against that and proclaim the sound orthodox view of evangelicalism.
I was raised in a large church that split over a rapid radical transition to Pentecostal: teaching classes on “How to speak in tongues”, and teens were given spiritual “gifts” tests to see what their “gift” was, I had a 15yr old girl tell me she was a “prophet” cuz she scored that results on the test... so growing up in an environment like that, you see how the “higher gifts” are so easily and rampantly being abused and falsely proclaimed that we need a Pilar of truth to stand to show us what God says on this. So thank you Piper for helping us have a balanced and sound doctrine through your ministry and Christ work through you.
I agree w Piper that the word is 100% breathed word of God through the inspired writers, perfectly preserved for the church, and that it is as relevant today as yesterday: we too believe that the higher gifts should be desired: but in humility and truth, only through the spirit, in the biblical context. Tongues being translateable w witnesses to edify; not mumbo jumbo that doesn’t edify anyone but only magnifies the “gifted person’s” pride. Prophecy has many ways of being manifested in the believer I agree. Visions, dreams, and thoughts that are not our own bit of Him that piece into our heart mind and soul God’s Word, those are facets of prophecy I agree. Whether that makes one a prophet, I would not so quickly say. Being a prophet is risky business for a fake, because a truth committed church should be able to sniff out a false prophet after 1 strike, based on scripture that if the prophets prophecy doesn’t come to pass the way he said, he is a false prophet. So to hold one in regard to BEING a prophet, that SHOULD be risky for a deceiver, but unfortunately there’s ppl who believe this “being spiritual” side of what they call Christianity which so often rubs shoulders with New Age in those types of “churches”. We need sound teachers like Piper AND MacArthur to help light our path through these tangled webs of lying thieves of apostates.
+Andrew Maintainence & Repair Fiend
"God knows we live in heretical times overflowing mega churches of prosperity gospel heretics, "
YOU might want to learn from Piper not to blaspheme the work the Holy Spirit is doing among MOST of those you cultishly condemn as 'prosperity heretics'; my guess is they are far closer to Biblical correctness that you are - they simply LIVE what the BIBLE promises.
Their contribution to the Kingdom of God on this earth is gigantic - overshaddowing by many times their critics meager efforts to see the Kingdom of GOD advance.
YOU may NOT like them - BUT God does and that is what is important. :Personally, I want to love those that GOD loves . . .
God blesses those that speak FAITH - rather than doubt - ACCORDING to your FAITH be it unto you. The difference? between YOU and THEM
They preach faith.
+Andrew Maintainence & Repair Fiend
YOU again blaspheme the Spirit of GOD:
"Tongues being translateable w witnesses to edify; not mumbo jumbo that doesn’t edify anyone but only magnifies the “gifted person’s” pride."
How ignorant you appear of the scriptures - there are THREE uses for tongues in the NT - the one Paul expected each believer to enjoy was private worship and singing with tongues - certainly NOT something that could be an issue of pride in your own prayer closet.
DO you read the BIBLE at all?
Even the apostles were accused of mumbo jumbo - BUT in fact those languages they spoke were REAL languages - I defy you to attempt to rationally prove that ANY "tongues" you may hear is "mumbo jumbo" YOU cannot. As a traveler - I can assure you that the markets of Bombay would seem like mumbo jumbo to you - yet the nation buys and sells in the "chaos" of this mumbo jumbo.
I was with a group at Seatac airport a few years back and we were praying about midnight before boarding. An oriental gentleman in his 50s or so came up to us and began speaking Chinese - he was rather baffled that we could NOT understand him - He had heard us speaking in his mountain dialect from Taiwan - and understood perfectly what we were saying.
YOU ought NOT despise the workings of the HOLY Spirit rand place you limited knowledge against his INFINITE knowledge.
I suppose you have NO understanding of anything other than ENGLISH - IF you were bilingual you would realize the nonsense of your statement.
++Andrew Maintainence & Repair Fiend
"so growing up in an environment like that, you see how the “higher gifts” are so easily and rampantly being abused and falsely proclaimed"
Again you attack what you seeming refuse to understand - HOW can it be wrong to know what NATURAL Gifts GOD has enabled you to make use of in your life? WHY attempt to be a teacher when you gave NO ability to express yourself clearly? WHY attempt to be an organizer when you cannot sort out your wallet?
Is that NOT what the BIBLE plainly teaches - that we are to KNOW our Gifts and Calling? And be CONFIDENT in it? And since when does being prophetic lead to pride? There is NO such thing as a proud prophet - there may be CONFIDENT prophets - as they ALL need to be - but Pride? I have found more cessationists proud of their humility that any of the prophets of the perhaps hundred or so I have known.
++Andrew Maintainence & Repair Fiend
YOU confuse the OT prophets with the NY prophet - again you lack simple basic Biblical understanding.
"Being a prophet is risky business for a fake, because a truth committed church should be able to sniff out a false prophet after 1 strike, based on scripture that if the prophets prophecy doesn’t come to pass the way he said, he is a false prophet.
YOU seeming ignore there were SCHOOLS for prophets in the OT - because you do NOT normally wake up one morning and be a prophet with a perfect track record. Samuel had YEARS of training before his first correct prophesy - the ONLY ones recorded were the ones he got right. Ballim on the other hand had wicked motives - BUT still could NOT prophesy wrongly.
In the NT - prophesy is quite different - and there are groups of prophets that JUDGE the accuracy of the prophesy being given.
There is NO stoning of the NT prophets - and no shame in being wrong. Again - your Biblical literacy and denominational cultism seem to have overs shaddows tour ability to rightly divide the WORD of GOD
"but unfortunately there’s ppl who believe this “being spiritual” side of what they call Christianity which so often rubs shoulders with New Age in those types of “churches”.""
That is a deliberate, and UNPROVABLE, lie. NOT only is it rare if al all - BUT I have never encountered it is the 100's of churches I have been to.
Care to cite even ONE example?
@@paulrobinson9318 I think the issue is false prophets. We see many in the Scriptures. And we see the destruction of those who trusted them instead of God’s Word and the true prophets. You must ask yourself this: Are there still prophets who speak in the same way as the prophets in the Bible? If so, the canon isn’t complete and the Bible needs added to. Personally I’m not a cessationist, but this is a massive ordeal.
John Piper is a continuationist while John MacArthur is a cessationist. Both have point. I respect them both. Btw, I am continuationist
Not a salvation issue by the way im a cessationist but I'm still open
@@mrragman12345 amen brother, I sit on the fence but it's good to see fellowship amongst all the divisiveness :)
@@WeWantYouToStay I agree the only thing I am staunchly against now is prophecy, especially new revelation especially in this time revelation from God should directly reflect His word not what's going to happen in your life ( nothing to be added ) the issue of tongues whilst I disagree i am willing to be open too but in these dark times we must be United among essential doctrines In the age of COVID-19 we must not be divisive especially now
+jhrdcchtgvdskujhb
The TEACHING of the BIBLE is plain.
"the only thing I am staunchly against now is prophecy,"
GOD set prophets in the church - and others such as teachers and apostles - but you claim this is your issue - and to hold your position you MUST ignore and oppose scripture.
"especially new revelation"
"of course there will be NEW revelation - the 2000 year old prophesies do NOT deal with our issues or events today. NOR is prophesy today ADDING to SCRIPTURES - we have the example of Agabus CONFIRMING - NOT warning - Paul of his impending imprisonment in Rome - establishing what GOD had told Paul previously.
I have been through many similar situations - one example where a prophet told me that what I was attempting would be terribly difficult but I would hear 'and now my whole family have come to know Christ' and KNOW I am in the center of God's will. And after three years of incredible hardship - and often wondering where GOD was .. I heard a lady give that testimony of the labor I had been involved in.
God ALWAYS has his prophets.
The majority of the Armenians that survived the Massacre at the turn of the century exist today because of a series of PROPHETS providing them maps and how to escape just before the genocide - those that did NOT heed the prophets were slaughtered. The story is in the Book 'Happiest People on Earth' if you can find a copy - I'm sure it is available from many other sources as well.
God ALWAYS has His prophets.
"especially in this time revelation from God should directly reflect His word"
IT always should be in LINE with his word - BUT His word does NOT tell you to go into a specific ministry, etc - or that you should move somewhere for a purpose you cannot know at the time. The SCRIPTURE could not give you specifics - hence GOD provided prophets.
Eph 4:11 "And he himself gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, that is, to build up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God-a mature person, attaining to the measure of Christ’s full stature."
This tells us when those offices established in the church will cease . . . and why they are ESSENTIAL teaching.
"not what's going to happen in your life ( nothing to be added )"
You misuse this passage - it prohibits changing the message already given by adding or subtracting from it - also in Deut 4:2 - "You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you. " . . . . and we have 61 BOOKS added to it by the HOLY SPIRIT after that was given. SO it does NOT mean what you use it to mean.
Your statement is based on ignorance, NOT knowledge, of Scripture. That is the very REASON for prophets.
" the issue of tongues whilst I disagree i am willing to be open too"
How can you disagree with the plain teaching of SCRIPTURE? The very words of Jesus - in Mark 16:17? The BIBLE teaches 3 (or 4) necessities for tongues in the Christian church. ALL essential. And you ignore them?
"but in these dark times we must be United among essential doctrines In the age of COVID-19 we must not be divisive especially now"
And in so saying YOU are divisive. WHO decides what are essential doctrines? IN this day of pestilence - the gift of Prophesy is more needed in the church than ever - and the Christian edification of speaking in tongues in their devotion to God is essential. (1 Cor 14:4, Jude 20) " 2 For the one speaking in a tongue does not speak to people but to God, for no one understands; he is speaking mysteries by the Spirit. . . He that speaks in an unknown tongue edifies Himself . . ."
www.gospel.org.nz/index.php/articles/articles-by-rodney/215-ten-reasons-to-speak-in-tongues
@@paulrobinson9318 killed it
I continue to grow in the teachings of both Piper and MacArthur. I had no real understanding of or acceptation of charismatic gifts or even believed that speaking in tongues was real until it happened to me. The initial experience (in 2002) was so profound that I often refer to it as my “PROOF” of God’s divine presence and power in the lives of His people. I say “proof” as opposed to Faith which of course, is what we as believers have in Christ Jesus our Faithful King. It was so supernatural yet so real but totally outside of material explanation that I am comfortable calling it “Proof”. I do lean towards Piper more though simply because he seems to have a level of humility that MacArthur SEEMS to be missing. Peace be with you and God bless! Endorse: David Wilkerson, Derek Prince…
Nothing wrong with spiritual gifts but charismatic often try and force them and will frequently fake them, not only is this foolish but also a sin. We shouldn't live our life's chasing after super power but after him who is all powerful. I would say my gift is discerning of spirits but I wasn't searching for it specifically and was simply trying to get closer to Christ.
There are millions of people who can just speak tongues if you give them a few steps on what to do
Very measured, reasonable, rational and respectable response from one spiritual giant of this generation to another. No one person has the last interpretive authoritative word on God's revelation. Much grace is extended and I pray it is received in love. God bless both of them.
I love both these men of God. I was a cessationist but now believe the Gifts still exist. I came to this through prayer primarily but also certain experiences I have had.
I was an atheist or 38 years or so and initially approached my faith theologically and the Holy Spirit convinced me that I should lean out of theology and into faith. Best advice I've ever had as now I see a richness in God's word alone and not in man's interpretation of it. Peace in Christ ✝️
Love you John!! Both of you, lol :)
I love the humility of this man!
John Macauthur basically said in the conference that charismatics are demon possessed and not apart of the body of Christ. I believe there are extremes on both sides. One side is dead legalism and other is charismatic excess and possibly even blasphemous manifestations of something not of God. I grew up in a charismatic church revival setting. I’m 33 and I’m just so confused about everything these days, I don’t know who to trust or believe. I don’t understand why God reveals scripture differently to people in so radical ways. Even the process of salvation is disagreed upon, i grew up with the Arminian view of salvation that basically depended on my will and acts of repentance, my church even recommended getting saved over and over again “to make sure”. I did not fair so well with those teachings and I’m still not sure of the state of my soul. I am trying to find the truth in Christ and now I have stumbled upon the view that there are elect individuals who are predestined for salvation and it doesn’t depend on them whatsoever if they are saved, the saving faith is from God alone and not dependent on their actions. I’m honestly just incredibly confused. My main thoughts at this time is that I have sinned too much in the face of the grace of God and God has given me up, in the Arminian view that could be true but not in the Calvinistic view so far as I can understand. I think the only one that could possibly convince me is if Christ told me himself but even then I would probably disbelieve the feelings, visions or emotions as hysteria. Please pray for me that I will find the truth in Christ, be freed from sin and find rest for my soul through true scriptural faith. This is my prayer. Perhaps it is faith in Christ alone and I will never have assurance, but this thought seems to disagree with scripture that says we are not saved unless we have assurance...I just don’t know.
Exhumed Gaming , believing on the Christ, the anointed one. And believing He was the first of the resurrection is all that is required. Do you believe? I was reared in Charismatic/Pentecostal culture, but love John Piper and any who teach sound doctrine. I will also refer you to Robert Morris of Gateway church in Texas. His series on The God I Never Knew is excellent. Hope this helps.
Praying for you brother 😊
God bless you!
After reading John Mcarthur's sermons and interpretation of the Bible, I already have doubt whether I am saved and many people.. And I feel like the only way to not be lukewarm is to boldly preach the Gospel
I hope you found your way and made peace in this as I can completely relate. It took me on a journey that was for the better. I’ve grown since and gained much understanding. Hoping you had a similar outcome God bless
Well how often do you read you bible? The people that struggle the most with salvation are the ones that barely listen to the word of god aka bible. You also by this point should be able to see how much you've grown since you became a Christian, if you're still the same person (committing the same sins as you were all those years ago) then you should be very, very afraid. If you see how much you've grown and become better ex. More loving, trusting, wise, patient, humble then you're most likely saved.
One of the main reasons i gave my life to the Lord is because of the spiritual things. Experiences. It always trips me up with ppl say those days are over. BUT i still believe John Mcarthur is an AMAZING teacher. Just that part is kinda crazy for me to hear.
King C4 your main reason should be to obtain forgiveness because we are broken.
+@@christiantompkins6423 That of course is ONE reason - NOT the main reason. Salvation is to spread the Kingdom of GOD on EARTH - NOT only to escape hell.
MacArthur's entire teachings and paradigm of the BIBLE and Christianity is affected by his cultic and unbiblical cessationism. IT influences every thing he teaches - Although he is knowledgeable in Scripture - he is not WISE in scripture. HE needs to repent and begin to preach the WHOLE gospel.
NO man can oppose the plain teaching of Scripture and be wise in it.
His vicious and ungodly attacks on those that disagree (by accepting the ENTIRE gospel) with him are NOT from GOD. I leave the rest to you.
@@paulrobinson9318 his main reason was too receive super powers, if that reason is above God then he is wrong. Plain and simple.
@@StallionFernando
Huh?
THAT makes no sense and I see no evidence to support it
I am a cessationist like Dr. McArthur, but, if I was to turn out to be mistaken, then I would fully expect for the gifts of the spirit to function in the manner Dr. Piper described. I have immense respect for both pastors and exponentially more points of agreement than disagreement with them.
I love listening to both Pastors! They both have bIblical points. This is where the individual (Christian) is responsible for obedience & practice of this doctrine.
Best preacher I've found so far
I love em both.....
John MacArthur ❤️❤️
ALL OF YOU must watch the MacArthur/Piper conference video.
They are like Jhon and Pedro
Exactly same personality!
They are great God's warriors
I love both of them.
May God bless them both
Where can i watch it?/which video?
Martin Luther put it like this:
"If I profess with the loudest voice and clearest exposition every portion of the truth of God except precisely that little point which the world and the devil are at that moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ, however boldly I may be professing Christ. Where the battle rages, there the loyalty of the soldier is proved, and to be steady on all the battlefield besides is mere flight and disgrace if he flinches at that point. "
Martin Luther was a great man - he also had GLARING anti-BIBLICAL errors - like being a raging antiSemite
I think the way some speak about reformers is not healthy
@@benvindatati Amen. I agree!
"Let us make three tabernacles, one for Thee, one for Luther, and one for Calvin."
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
@@AnHebrewChildhey please don’t blaspheme God and misuse His word like that in a manner that is mocking or joking, God will not hold anyone guiltless who takes His name in vain.
@@FirstnameLastname77777 that's not at all blaspheming. God is my Judge. I didn't replace JESUS' holy name with Luther & Calvin, but only other fallen men's names.
The ones who disrespect God are those who treat the reformers like they are our shepherd.
Be blessed.
Christian courage is the willingness to say and do the right thing regardless of the earthly cost, because God promises to help you and save you on account of Christ.
I haven’t come down hard on either side but I do have a question for cessationists. I believe you would say that you see in scripture the cessation of the gifts, also due to the closing of the canon. Also, some say the historical record shows no gifts at work. I assume a person is a cessation also because they’ve never witnessed a genuine manifestation of those gifts. How much of a role does that play in that position?
Thanks
Why out of nowhere is John MacArthur getting slammed and getting name called by everyone?? People in the comments on other videos are being extremely disrespectful. John piper and John MacArthur are men of God.
SO are all those HE attacks . . .
Paul Robinson like who?
+@@born2win259
Really? Lets start with Bill Johnson, Todd White, Joel Osteen, Dan Mohen, the thousands of NAR preachers - which include, I think, my last 4 pastors as I have moved around . . . etc.
Paul Robinson Joel Osteen is a motivational preacher. Doesn’t preach the true gospel from scripture. He sugar coats the word that is made to convict us and cause us to repent. I don’t know much of the others.
+@@born2win259
Again you accept gossip rather than TRUTH.
"Paul Robinson Joel Osteen is a motivational preacher."
SO was Jesus much of the time.
"Doesn’t preach the true gospel from scripture."
A assertion you cannot support and is factually false.
" He sugar coats the word that is made to convict us and cause us to repent. I don’t know much of the others. "
Again - you listen to Gossip. Those that are already in the KINGDOM have NO need to repent again - those that are looking at the Gospel, have already repented or they would NOT be looking.
YOU need to read Heb 2 - 1 and 2:
"6 Therefore we must progress beyond the elementary instructions about Christ and move on to maturity, not laying this foundation again: repentance from dead works and faith in God, 2 teaching about ritual washings, laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And this is what we intend to do,"
Every service he gives a chance for the repentant to come to Christ. In many weekday events he teaches and disciples them.
YOU simply attack what you cannot and do not KNOW!!l.
I think what you REALLY mean is that he does IT DIFFERENT than YOUR church - and YOU assume they are doing it right.
When you can bring as many people to salvation as Osteen - get back to me . . .
Meantime you ought to listen to a couple of his messages - he, like Jesus majors on the GOSPEL - the GOOD news - the sinner already KNOWS he needs saving. The discouraged need the GOOD news - and Osteen meets BOTH groups needs each Sunday.
He is NOT my favorite preacher - BUT most of the accusations against him are false . . so I defend him against the lies spread by the neoPharisees..
I'm really hoping to stand firm with you Pastor John. no irony. your words were once a lifeline for me.
Love your ministry.. Would visit your Church if I ever get out to California💞🙏🙏
John MacArthur is in California, but this is John Piper who is in Minneapolis, MN.
The mistake I see in the comments is that, John Macarthur is not saying these things dont happen, hes saying that there arent people walking around who have that gift at their fingers tips. Do heals happen? Yes. Are there people walking around who can heal at will; people who possess the gift of healing? Absolutely not or they would be all over the news or should be at the hospitals doing ministry work. What a testimony that would be! Only the Apostles could do that.
Another example, people who say they can prophecy, Deuteronomy 18 makes it clear, if the prophet is wrong even once you shall not fear him. I am absolutely stunned at the amount of Christians who watch prophecy youtubers who have proven they aint prophets according to that chapter's standard. Especially all the ones saying Trump would be in the white house one 2020. They were wrong, but still have a platform as biblical prophets. I think we need to start holding people to a biblical standard instead of just giving all these people passes. Just a side note.
In short, no one is denying miracles, cessessionists just deny people who claim to have the gifts of the Apostles. I just had to comment due to the lack of understanding of the term in the comments.
It's like when people talk about Calvinists, but have no understanding of what it means to be a Calvinist. They dont follow John Calvin, they just hold to the 5 pillars. If you hold to them, you are a Calvinist as well. Learn the terms by the book, not the definitions of random people. Hopes this helps. Grace and peace.
LOVE JOHN PIPER !!!!
John MacArthur stands on far firmer biblical ground. The TBN crowd has made a mockery of the Lord.
+David
YOU have that EXACTLY backwards.
"John MacArthur stands on far firmer biblical ground. The TBN crowd has made a mockery of the Lord. "
JMA has edited out the parts of the gospel that BRING revival and salvation - mocked the WORDS of JESUS in Mark 16, the Gifts of GOD to the CHURCH in Eph 4, and the personal Gifts of the HOLY SPIRIT in 1 Cor 12 - 15 -0 HOW then can you say he's on FIRMER Biblical ground than someone that teaches the ENTIRE Bible from COVER to COVER?
That's insanity. It MAY be demonic.
That's a false dichotomy. MacArthur vs TBN.
Who cares what either of them do or say? They may well both be wrong, as the Pharisees and Sadducees were each different but both wrong.
WHAT DOES JESUS SAY? Period.
What did Pastor John mean at 5:12 when he said he is “trying to make judgment calls about proportion of importance?” Just curious. Thank you! I love Pastor John and his material.
I think he was implying that whilst the gifts of the Spirit are important, they perhaps aren’t at the forefront with teaching and preaching the gospel of Christ in the church, in order to save souls and edify believers.
Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith... These men were not raised and discipled to believe in the full counsel of God regarding the strict Biblical standards of "the prophetic" in the new testament church, so wherever they are, and they are not far from the kingdom in these areas, they are closer than most.
I just don't get it ,if somebody's is wrong and teaching false things is our responsibility to call them out,if God is with us who's against us,
jose flores it’s because talking about or disagreeing about speaking in tongues are secondary issues in scripture and not primary issues like the divinity of Christ, doctrine of hell, the plan of Salvation, God’s Sovereignty etc. Secondary issues will not make pastors false teachers. But, the latter will. Is it clearer? :)
@@marcellomorena9156but when people are teaching someone contrary to Scripture regarding the gifts, we're supposed to just leave it alone and say "secondary issue*?
Pastor MacArthur really disappointed me on this one. Not his interpretation, but his spirit.
I think that His interpretation and his spirit were dead on.
And I think Pastor John Piper (who's ministry in the Word has been a huge blessing toe personally) proved MacArthur's point by his own statement of what prophecy means. If He's not seeking a new word from the Lord but rather the RIGHT word from the Lord then that is obviously not what any charismatic continuationist believes but Piper won't condemn them for constantly claiming new words with authority from God that are as accurate as the weather report.
I Love Pastor Piper but he needs to not make room for the ungodly "prophecy" that is rampant.
It just reminds us that no one is infallible
@@joe86johnson There are also ungodly deniers of the Bible.... meaning people who don't follow 1 Corinthians 14:1, 1 Corinthians 12:31 for example. We need to make sure the church that we attend does not ignore these verses of the BIble
1 Corinthians 4:6
Earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, and forbid the speaking in stupid pagan utterances that aren't real languages, and that mess up people's common sense. Okay, okay, I cannot give you one pet verse of Scripture for this, but to a lot of us, it is the wisdom of the hour.
Read. 2 Timothy 2 15. You have all the answers you need. All in bible answers it self. Just study. I have mcAuthur McGEE. Vine and William Henry. And others. Books. All give examples of other verses that explains a verse in whole bible. Yes take some grain of salt of there comments. But as God in prayer of wisdom what God wants you to know. I teach the bible. I give verses to answer verses. Also like Les Feldick teachings. He us the best if all. Praise God in all things of God's word.
I can tell you that you need to be very careful when you criticize a move of the Holy Spirit as was with the Charismatic Movement or any other for that matter. I have been touched by the latter rain/Charismatic revival tailings 40 years after it happened with Gerald Derstine in 1955 on the White Earth Indian Reservation in Strawberry Lake MN when I visited Amos Stolzfus and his disciple John Miller prayed for me to receive the Holy Spirit, at first I didn't feel anything, later like boiling water in my stomach flowed living water and when it erupted from my spirit to my mouth my tongue spoke in angelic language, my mind and ears heard what my tongue could not control but my natural mind got the better of me so I stopped it after 7 words and I regret because it was so beautiful, but yet I was in control of the flow to let it continue or not.
I went to a tent revival meeting in California connected to the Toronto Blessing, was touched, laughed, felt the weightiness of God's presence, the same night dreamed and saw a Cornerstone with a seal having circles within circles, I broke it and saw on the other side in the Spirit Ezekiel the prophet in the middle of stairs looking at the sand on the beach as lightning struck the sand 4 times, each time the sand broke into clumps that went north, south, east, and west. This refers to 4 revivals that will take place. I have had prophetic dreams since childhood in my mothers own handwriting and dated, even the Lord showing me 11 years before 9-11 in Jan 1990 what would take place.
If you don't know, its better to leave it alone. Experiences back up the word of God and these revivals are a continuation of what was prophesied through Joel.
Would you also call what happened on the day of Pentecost strange fire? Would you limit the Holy Spirit move only to what happened with the first Apostles which has been confirmed in signs and wonders as a continuation of the ministry of the Holy Spirit? Would you deny the prophet Joel and the application of scriptures as it relates to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit? In keeping with the context of scripture as it relates to Acts Chapter 2 as the prophet Joel speaks, "whosoever" you are going to now qualify who and who cannot receive a touch from the Holy Spirit or how Abraham who surrounded by idols was called out from his familiar home, you will generalize and say all Catholics cannot receive the Holy Spirit, what about some, do they count as part of "all flesh" that Joel speaks of? Or how about David when he danced before the presence of the Lord expressing Himself in reckless abandon, wildly worshiping God, his wife Michal 2nd Samuel 6:23 was barren and never bore children, are you going to say King David had a Kundalini spirit, or don't you know that Satan always copies the real and counterfeits it? You cannot have a ministry without the Holy Spirit so if you criticize a move of the Holy Spirit, grieve and come close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit, only by your ignorance would God be merciful to you by discrediting the ministry of the Holy Spirit in these revivals and attributing it to Satan are you not carnal and blind? Would it be out of the question that God would honor His work and leave fruit that remains? Look at the fruit of some revivalists like Gerald Derstine, he was raised of 10,000 churches around the world, Rodney Howard Browne, raising up thousands of evangelists around the world.
The problem is when the manifestations do not follow the biblical precident. When you justify that, you idolize experience over scripture.
Whatever you experienced was not the holy spirit, you said you couldn't control your tongue and mouth yet when the holy spirit acts you are able to control it, in fact wasn't it at pentacost where either Paul or Peter said that if you prophecy or speak in tongues to take turns and wait? That's because the holy spirit doesn't make you lose bodily functions. You don't need the gift of discerning spirits (which I have, and no, I'm not a charismatic nor do I wanna be) but a simple understanding of the bible is all that is needed to separate demonic experiences with divine experiences, for we are told to test peoples words and experiences with the bible.
@@elijahnegron337 For the sake of standing for what the Lord did for me that day, I present my experience and yes open to scrutiny. That's ok and I ask God to give you His Grace to understand his plan for your life, along with being open to His move of the Spirit. As far as biblical precidence, Jesus said out of your bellys shall flow rivers of living water, thats what happened to me at that moment.
@May The Lord Bless This Ministry What I had at that moment was free will. Unfortunately I didn't cooperate with the move of the Spirit to allow Him to be expressed through me at that moment. God will not override our will, so at that moment hearing those angelic words proceed from my mouth, in the natural mind, I choose not to continue to cooperate with the move of the Spirit. That is what is so powerful about our will. Self Control applies to virtue, so I think in this context it is being taken out of context. May the Lord Jesus bless you none the less and reveal what He wishes for your life.
@@StallionFernando Let me ask you something Sushi Uchiha. Have you been born again by believing in the finished work of Jesus Christ? If so, at that moment when you received Jesus or any moment thereafter, have you ever felt the presence of God? If so, was it a sovereign act of God or something you were able to control on your part? Do you see where I am going with this? When God chooses to touch your life, its because you have already cooperated with God by opening your heart to him. That day, someone prayed for me and I asked for the Holy Spirit to come into my life in a greater way. If you surrender your life completely to Jesus then He can use you through a devine inspired thought, or any other way He chooses. This experience was in private and wasn't for everyone anyway, I'm only mentioning it to be faithful to what the Lord did for me that day. John 7:38 says "Anyone who believes in me may come and drink! For the Scriptures declare, ‘Rivers of living water will flow from his heart. with Luke 6:45 "A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of." I can tell you what God deposited in my heart that day was so good, that when that river like a geyser eruped from my belly to my mouth, the overflow of what was in my heart was expressed in a language so beautiful, I only wish I would have never let it stop. Yet after 7 words, I had control to stop it and I did to my regret. Before you judge Sushi Uchiha, I would ask that you seek God in a matter first. I forgive you as the Lord does, yet be careful, because our words do have power. I would give you a word of advice, make with absolute certainty if you are going to pass judgment on something like this that you are absolutely sure that what you are saying is right; otherwise, I recommend to refrain from commenting. Lord Jesus if I have caused someone to stumble over the experience you gave me please forgive me if sharing this online has caused an offense to anyone, that was not my intention. I pray you would reveal yourself and give your peace and understanding Lord to all those who read this. I pray they will not limit your power like I did that day, and for that reason, so many never come to a deeper richer experience in you. I pray the best for Sushi Uchiha and everyone here, they are my brothers and sisters in Christ and you know I love them. Help them all Lord Jesus in so much as I too need your help, In Jesus name I pray amen.
Jhon MacArthur says Christians can loose there salvation is this a false teaching
Im sorry I need to pull him up on this BUT
He has so much knowledge with other sermons at the same time!!
My opinion is EG; the church in revelations that Jesus rebukes into repentance for not having love. And I believe he’s false teaching a Christian cannot loose his salvation.
I got so many verses to prove this.
Does someone want to respond to this and say there feeling on this??
If you follow what JESUS says then who cares what some self appointed "shepherds " say. Jesus said "there shall be one fold, and ONE shepherd." Period. End of.
And JESUS is very clear in what he teaches (for those with ears to hear.)
_
Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
**But he answered and said,** Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Sasha Bozovich, just keep following KING JESUS, and be blessed.
Someone with the Spirit can not lose their salvation
Those who "lost their salvation" did not have the Holy Spirit
Well, friends, I guess Christ was wrong when He ask, who is my mother, sister, or brother, but he that doeth the will of My Father, the Bible when It said "Contend for the Faith" or Peter when he preached the first Gospel sermon and said look you all killed the Son of God" read all of ACTS 2. Once we have been baptized and told to keep the Apostles doctrine. Folks does that mean we are to extend the right hand of fellowship to everyone? We are to be nice, yes but I don't think Paul or any of the other inspired writers would say lets just agree to disagree like John and John but to be ONE like God and Christ are ONE. All The "C of C is saying is Two out three is not enough but by people at least trying to learn what to do and how to do it
Christ's blood which we come in contact with covers us in all points that we can't, but even it if we only have one talent and don't use it all deals are off the table... Hey folks I'm no theologian but my best Friend was a carpenter's son and some fishermen, and a few others who walked with me (about 40 or so) through life. Need a cup of cold water, you got it. You need a dance partner, not on my resume.
Why do Calvinist lack so much faith it's kind of embarrassing and if God is the same, Jesus is the same, then shouldn't the Holy Spirit be the same? Sad.
It’s because many Christians will become so enamored by the gifts of the Spirit that they begin to use them unbiblically and then lead to the influence of others unbiblically.
I still believe in the gifts, but I am able to listen to John MacArthur and understand his perspective
My great-great grandmother was a devout Pentecostal all her known life. Her "gift" was that, despite being illiterate, she could read the Bible like we do. No prophecies, tongues, et cetera. Any other book, the woman was clueless about. She was married off to a nominal Baptist as a teenager, which might have been why my mother and aunt held/hold onto fringe elements from the charismatic movement,
I became ill at sixteen-years-old, and ultimately turned physically disabled. Mama had/has a friend I knew/have known since early childhood. A Church of God congregant, my mother took me to that lady's church. I was sat on a chair, hands soon placed on my head and shoulders. The women babbled incoherently. We then took Holy Communion. I left hopeful that the pleading of the blood of Jesus worked.
As a now 28-year-old man, I don't think the apostolic powers exist anymore. God working Old Testament miracles and scant ones throughout the New Testament by the Son was to validate who Christ really was/is. The Lord's revelation was/is closed via Scripture. Do I think Jesus could/can heal me? Of course! Still, it may not be His plan for my life (look at Paul's "thorn in the flesh").
Rev. John Piper has preached more on suffering in Christian existence than any other Reformed minister I've observed on You Tube. I appreciate that. But, he (Piper) was/is an example quite different than most charismatics in my generation, certainly. Rev. Wayne Grudem would be a similar man. The "New Apostolic Reformation" trend embraced by so many continuationists is very frightening to hear and see,
I side with Rev. MacArthur, Jr. in all honesty. He did clarify his stances shortly after the Strange Fire Conference. I haven't a link off the top of my head, yet you could peruse this platform and find it. Us Christians possess plentiful faith.
Ending, why was this particular podcast uploaded to You Tube as if it were new? Piper already reacted to MacArthur, Jr.'s comments some years ago. I remember the video.
Institutio Christianae Religionis I don't need to take a staff I'll ask God to teleport me like he did to the apostles or I'll walk on water Jesus Christ said it himself we will do greater things then him.
JesusIsMagnificent Firstly, you're misinterpreting the Bible. And that disqualifies you for half of the things you're claiming to and would've removed any blessing from you. Secondly, that argument isn't what we're arguing.
Fred Jan then what are we arguing?