How to Properly Cut Lathe Soft Jaws - Part 2: ID Gripping, Re-cutting, and Adding a Taper
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- In the second of a two-part installment, a Haas certified machinist guides us through more advanced lathe soft jaw cutting/boring techniques, including ID gripping, re-cutting, and adding a taper to your soft jaws.
Watch Part 1 - Fundamentals and OD Gripping - here: • How to Properly Cut La...
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Most useful video for CNC beginners. The CNC technician works like a BOSS. Great.
Very informative video. Describes every detail even little ones very briefly.
Watch part 1 first to understand all the video clearly.
Haas has contributed a lot with just these two videos, I am sure they will continue this knowledge sharing process.
I'm currently a student learning CNC.
I found this video very informative. Thank you!
Those videos are really good!!
I missed such videos from the german and japanese machines our company is working with.
Thank's for that. 😁😊😍🤗
Thank you for the comment Keith, we are very happy that you enjoyed the video.
Hello and thank you for the comments William Bradu - you raise some good issues.
It could be argued that wearing a ring while loading parts or tools inside a CNC machine may pose a risk. However, with the rotating parts of the machine not accessible during operation the risk is much lower than when using an unenclosed manual machine. Use your best judgment when deciding what personal effects pose a risk while working inside the machine.
Haas does not recommend using the M19 spindle orient code to hold the spindle in position while tightening soft jaws. In this case you are working against the motor positioning circuit and it is not sufficiently stiff to reliably react to the high tightening torques.
If your machine is equipped with an optional C-axis the main spindle brake can be used to lock the spindle in place using M-code M14. We did not include this in the video since many Haas lathes do not ship with this option installed.
The operator should always exercise caution so they don’t slip and hit their hands when tightening the jaws with wrenches.
You are correct; the jaws should be completely deburred. A file, a deburr knife, or an air sander can all be used where appropriate for the jaw shape. We review grooving the base of the jaw bore and deburring the jaws in the 1st Soft Jaws video and we mention both the grooving and deburring steps again in video #2.
A chamfer can be added at the front lip of the jaws to aid part loading. We chose not show this; if the chamfer is cut too deep or you have a short grip height the chamfer will reduce your clamping surface area.
Thanks for the comments!
@NIETZSCHE KANT Use even bigger ring than outer jaws diameter?
@NIETZSCHE KANT This was skipped
@EDIT its my guess
@NIETZSCHE KANT On MAZAK QTN 250 II/ M / 200 I work on you cant turn on the spindle if chuck is not clamped.
Maybe if chuck clamp position sensors are false set you could do it, I havent try this yet tho.
Maybe on HAAS machines its possible, I dont know, never worked with them
Another informative and well made video!
Thanks for taking the time to make it. :o)
You are very welcome Zenjoksss, thank you for the comment.
Very informative. A good, clear lesson. Thank you.
These are some outstanding videos. I hope they become popular. You wouldn't believe the amount of "machinists" out there that don't understand the fundamentals. They think they're 1st class, but they can't even bore jaws correctly... Or even know what soft jaws are really for. SMH. But again, bravo. Nice work here, Haas. Production Management all over should thank you.
Very well put together!
Very good video with high resolution, very helpfull
i just can't stop watching your videos
Thanks milxl - we appreciate it!
Very well done. simple but very informative.
Nice video! Keep them coming!
Just great tutorial, I like the way you are showing the possible mistakes with examples and numbers. Thank you Haas !
Thank you ydna2.
thanks for these informative instructions
You are welcome SirRootes, thanks for watching and for the comment.
I've been a Machinist going on 15 years and you'd be surprised the machinist that really don't know this. It's a shame but I must say these 2 videos are pretty damn good! I actually use an plunging indicator on top of the master jaw and zero it on top of travel ( you can do bottom too, doesn't matter) and I measure the total travel of the stroke as I close the Jaws and I divide the number in half and that's the number I look for when I clamp on a ring or pin or whatever.... Gets me in the center of the stroke every time! These videos are great, hope every one that runs a CNC lathe will take some notes! Happy Machining everybody!
Thanks for the great comment Ruben Alvarez!
Funny that. I'm an apprentice machinist. We have 7 CNC machines in my machine shop and when I watched this vid I mentioned purchasing a boring ring to bore out soft jaws for hydraulic rod jaws and they all looked at me and said, "what's a boring ring"? WTF?! LOL!
The blueing tip is excellent.
You guys make top quality videos and tutorials!
Thank you for sharing so much.
GOD Bless.
made
You are very welcome 1davidmills, thank you for watching.
nice explanation. Thanks you Hass!
You are very welcome d3mandd, thank you for the great comment!
13:17 hey can you tell me where i can buy the ring on the right? ?
Excellent work
Good job man. Congratulacions.
Why didn't I think about pie jaws? That is a very good idea. Thanks!
Well made video, very helpfull. Please make more.
Hello 郁雯 蘇 and thank you for your interest. We have attached Chinese (Simplified) captions to both videos of the “How to Properly Cut Lathe Soft Jaws” series. Please click the closed caption button “(CC)” located in the bottom right of the RUclips video player and select “Chinese (Simplified).”
hello, thank you for this helpful video. What torque do you use to secure the jaws in place?
very informative video, thanks
Thank you for so good video!
beautiful machine.useful information.thanks...
thanks for the video
27 dislikes are probably from aliens. The content and information provided is so far the best i have ever seen on youtube. Hats off to Haas Automation's whole team. I wish to work with such an awesome company in the near future.
Le invitamos Jorge, gracias por el comentario. Esperamos que el video ayuda a su instrucción.
Nice instruction video.
You are very welcome hondaredrdr!
Respected Haas Automation!
Do I need to take geometry offset while cutting or recutting soft jaws?
Please answer.
Thank you.
Can not lock the spindle for tightening jaws like you can on other cnc lathes?
If I have a tapered surface on outside diameter of a workpiece, can I grip this surface with a soft jaws precuted with a taper aswell?
Perfect study sir i like this please suggest me ring manufacturing outer dia and inner dia in 0.02mm not accept able ovalty wall thickness only 5mm so plz suggest me
never used boring rings. also had t-nuts standing out way further AND did parts with only 1 screw at each t-nut. absolutely no problem.
Hello ssthbp and thank you for your question and interest. More videos like this are coming soon. In the meantime, please visit our “Operator Tips and Tricks” playlist here on RUclips.
This seems like an extremely tedious operation to do for each unique part? Also how often is a part taken out of its setup as to necessitate repeatability of this extreme tolerance?
I do not have much experience running CNC lathes, but I am aware the chuck jaw clamping stroke is limited. Can you tell me how much the jaws can actually move before they need to be physically relocated? Can you direct me to a chart for different chuck sizes or types? Thanks.
Joe - Jaw stroke varies by type (hydraulic, pneumatic, or manual) and size, a rough range is .25” to 8”. Many of our lathes have hydraulic chucks with about 3/16-3/8” of jaw stroke, but not all of our lathes are this way and all lathes can be modified with alternative third party chucks and even different hydraulic unions.
Fantastic job..
Thanks Ebrahim Al Murbati!
Casting grooves in a bore how can I do finish bore turning with reamer
my component dia is 12.0 mm please explain .. i have so difficult porblems will doing this component
At 3:10, if the operator opens the boring ring, its pins will diverge, what will make the clamps have to travel outward also. So how can the mark of the midle of stroke get closer to the center?
Greetings
Спасибо Вам за урок.👍👍👍
where do you buy ID gripping ring?
The whole point of Jaw boring is the "Nominal Arc". The main point is to bore the jaws to the Nominal Diameter - And if the Chuck is a good one, there is quite often no need to bore them every time, even if the jaws have been removed!! A DTI (dial test indicator/clock) says a lot about repeatability. Stamping the Jaws (1, 2 & 3) alongside the chuck slides (1,2 &3) can save a fair bit of jaw boring. Been There, Seen It - Done It!! - Kept a roof over our heads for 45 odd years.
Very good sir
es una buena informacion ya que me estoy instrullendo en el ramo por mi cuenta gracias
mad one very good
How about increasing the jaw pressure when the back taper is a bit too much? Taking account the deformation it would make it alright at some point (but not too much!).
8:18 ... when a colleague takes my equipment in my drawer without telling me ... is a dead man! ... Ahahahahah
Tank You 😊
So what's the code to start the spindle when its open??. Which is the whole reason I picked this video
Great
Nice
I didn't watch the entire video at the time of my first post. In doing so I am wondering if I could use U for depth of cut on the line before the canned cycle as well as U for taper? Would U-.008 make the back of the bore smaller? Can U for taper be used when turning the OD as well? If so would +.008 make the back of the OD bigger, same as the bore? Will the taper in the jaws show up when chucked on the bore ring if checked w/ inside micrometers or an indicator? Thanks again for the insight.
The "U" value represents the finish allowance on a G71 canned cycle for Haas controls. It is optional and an alternative to the "I" value. The U value on the G71 line cannot be used to add a taper, it will remove an even amount of material over the length of the cut. But see below.
At 13:44 in the video we see (G01 U0.008 Z-3.4;), in this case this line is operating separately from the canned cycle. The U0.008 value is functioning like an X-axis move taking place incrementally over the full Z-3.4 depth distance, thereby giving the taper. As it says in the video this is a diametrical move taking 0.004 off per side at the largest part of the taper, which is at the bottom of the bore.
Again, you can’t use the U value on the G71 line to add a taper, here it will remove an even amount of material over the length of the whole bore.
Would U-0.008 make the back bore smaller? If you were still cutting an ID bore then G01 U-0.008 Z-3.4 would make the back of the bore smaller. It depends on if it is Internal or External. All X-axis negative moves are towards the center of the spindle. Positive values are away from the spindle.
Can U for taper be used when turning the OD as well? U can be used to add a taper when turning an OD as long as it’s programmed similarly to what we have here and not on the G71 line of the canned cycle.
Yes, you will be able to measure the taper in the jaws chucked up on the boring ring. The best way to measure this would be to run your indicator down the bore moving Z-axis. Doing this carefully will show you the full amount of taper added. You could use an ID mic, tri-mic, or bore gauge and check for the difference between the top and bottom of the bore. But it will be more difficult to get an accurate measurement of the total amount of taper.
Thanks for the good questions and we apologize again for the delayed response gdnuc6774
Am a little confused here...@ 15:44. looking at the program , can we assume a boring cycle has been run? With P and Q's and stock allowance? BTW Excellent video and Thanks for the explanation. Just trying to learn from the BEST!!!!
motel29 it is a roughing cycle.
You are welcome flashmanx6!
Спасибо, Человек Разумный.
What are your speeds, feeds, depth of cut and tool nose radius to achieve a 500 micro-inch when holding raw stock that you referred to in the first video. Thanks.
Hello gdnuc6774. We show cutting several sets of jaws and two finished parts in this video. In the case of the jaws they were cut with very conservative speeds, feeds, and cutting depths since speed is not the most crucial factor when making your jaws. The parts and jaws were all cut for demonstration purposes so have not been optimized for highest speed while still achieving fine surface finishes.
It is probably best to contact your local HFO with the specifics of your setup; material, tooling, speed requirements, type of machine, etc. That way they can give you recommendations regarding speeds, feeds, and depths of cut.
Thanks for the question.
Having trouble with a "ring" shaped part we also using steel pie jaws Problem that I am having is maintaining any kind of roundness after parting off the ring. Please give tips to stop run out after parting off
i'm also facing same issue
love u, sir
No clue how I ended up here but I like it.
where do you buy this soft jaws?
Ciao e grazie per la domanda alfredo77gamba. Facendo una ricerca su internet (su Google per esempio), probabilmente fornirà i risultati che stai cercando. Cerca "tornio anello noioso."
comprehensive experimentation data for sure
What if I dont have a boring ring?
Great video to start, just have a one question. As stated from gdnuc6774 comments on the 13:44 point in video. The operater put a U-.008 for a taper. When I try to run this code I get a error code. Example G71 P100 Q101 U.015 W.003 D.02 F.01; with a U.015 on that line left for the finish pass for the G70 cycle code that comes later. When I add the U.004 on my Z movement line inside the can cycle for a taper. I get an error code. So my question is how do you use the U.008 inside the can cycle to add a taper line that wont error out. Thanks
Hi tkstinger - We're glad to hear you like the video. In regards to your great question, please email a direct email address and/or phone number to contact@HaasCNC.com so that a member of our Applications Dept. can get in touch with you to provide a more detailed answer. Thank you, and we look forward to hearing from you soon via email!
Excellent videos, I will start in this bussiness and learning a lot with all this series.
I have a doubt in "the use of custom ring to fit a relief cut into the face of jaws".
How do you pass from raw or brand new soft jaws at 6:17 to the relief cut jaws at 6:22?
Did you machine from the outside on X axis, or from the front on Z axis?
During the cutting of relief; What / How were the jaws pushing outward against?
Thanks in advance.
Good
good
WOW !
I tried to cut soft jaws as shown here with ring, and always got 0.07mm of TIR in the best case. While if to cut soft jaws closed on some cylinder the result is always perfect. What can be wrong with the ring, or it is regular behavior of this way of jaws preparation ?
Hi Anatoli Panchenko - Make sure you aren't clamping the boring ring with any more than 100 psi of jaw force, or whatever maximum the manufacturer recommends. Also, check the run out of the bored hole before you unclamp the boring ring from the jaws. Even if the boring ring isn't perfectly symmetrical. Suppose one of the jaws is held at a slightly different radial position than the other two. Even then, the bore cut into the jaws is dictated by the position of the boring tool and that finished bore should be on-center to the spindle's axis of rotation.
Haas Automation, Inc. Hi, thank you for you replay.
I noticed that the jaws are asymmetrical by themselves. I found that distance between the surface I cut (the wall of my bore), to the holes where I clamping the ring, varies within 0.5 mm. For example on jaw N1 distance is 40mm, jaw N2 40.07mm jaw N3 40.5mm. Is that can be a source of the problem ?
Anatoli Panchenko - The error in your jaws does seem a little excessive, but it still shouldn't make any difference. Let's pretend for a minute that you attached one of the soft jaws (to the chuck master jaw) one slot farther inward than the other two jaws. This jaw would now be protruding say 1.5 mm farther than the other two.
But when the boring bar makes the cut it will bore all three jaws to the same diameter, dictated by the X-axis position of the insert. The soft jaws may have started at different locations, but the bore in the jaws should be round and at the center of spindle rotation.
If you continue to have issues, we recommend calling your local Haas Factory Outlet to inquire further. You can contact your HFO by visiting bit.ly/Find_HFO. You can also email us here at Haas Automation, Inc. if you with to speak directly with someone from our Applications Department: contact@HaasCNC.com. Please reference this RUclips conversation should you choose to contact either. Thanks Anatoli!
Haas Automation, Inc. I tried another approach to that problem. I used face groove tool to cut a groove on the front face of the jaws while jaws was closed on piece of round stock. Than I removed that stock, and placed steel ring inside of my groove. Than I closed my jaws (now positioned by the ring), and tried to cut my bore. The result was 0.01mm of T.I.R that is quite acceptable.
video molto interessante complimenti, ma dove posso trovare gli attrezzi che utilizza per la tornitura delle griffe tenere? grazie
Why dont use M14 at 2:00?
salute
Great video. In the program for jaw boring there in no U (depth of cut per side) before the canned cycle. Is that what the D is on the G71 line? If so is the D value per side? Also the start point x (3.85) is not the same as the x value on the N102 line. I understand that you are just skimming the jaws and don't want to waste time w/ air cuts but I thought those x values had to be the same? I have ran them at different values before but in this case I would have the x3.85 and z.05 on the same line before the G71 line and x2. on the N102 line. If I did this after facing down to x2. the boring bar would return to x3.85 z.05 in one move. Is that why you have G00 x3.85 and z.05 on separate lines before the canned cycle? So that after it faces down to x2. it comes straight out moving the z-axis only to z.05? Then rapids to z3.? Thanks for the insight.
Thanks for the compliment and we apologize for the delay in answering your questions gdnuc6774
The D on the G71 line is indeed the depth of cut, and it is read as a radial value (or per side as you say). When using G71 the U command defines the size and direction of your X-axis finish allowance.
The X3.85 value preceding the G71 line does not need to be the same as the X-axis value on the N102 line. The first X-value is the starting position before the canned cycle is applied. This is the point where each pass will start and end. The second X-value is the starting point of the profile being cut. The X-values are usually what determine an ID or OD canned cycle depending on their locations.
In this situation it is a dangerous choice to move the axes simultaneously. Putting the values on the same line as you say makes both the X and Z axis move towards that one point at the same time, regardless of having any material there or some other interference in the way. This is a crash waiting to happen.
Keeping the values separate gives us independent action and axis control. Please keep in mind that the jaw cutting steps are not part of production and the fastest tool paths are not always the best choice. Haas tries to show what we consider to be the safest and best practices.
As you say in your next question; facing down to X2.0, straight out moving Z-axis only to Z0.05, and rapid to Z3.0. You are correct, once again this is done to maintain independent safe axis motion.
is it necessary to hold a ring for soft jaw cutting?
raj pillai you cannot turn the spindle if it is unclamped.
Should we wait for some more videos like this?
Love the whole series. Question: you're turning the jaws to 'nominal' size. The drawing dimension for the ID is 8.600 +.002/-.000. (4:24 in video) The program calls for x8.6 (4:34 in video). The nominal would be 8.601 wouldn't it? Would .001 make any real difference on a part this size?
Great question than357 - and thanks for the compliment. In this case, “nominal” size refers to the feature size as stated on the drawing (the value named) before any tolerances are applied. The word nominal is often interpreted in different ways in metal working.
As you mentioned, cutting the jaws at 8.600 or 8.601 will not make any significant difference in how well the jaws grip the part. If your parts have a large variation in diameter then it’s wise to consider whether you want to size the jaws to grip the average size of the parts or size them to the small end of the range of variation, knowing you will grip the largest parts at the 2 outer edges of each jaw. Hope this helps!
TY
Andrew needs to take off his ring. also go to mdi input m19 cycle start to hold the spindle in place . Then you can ((pull up)) on the wrench to tighten the jaw bolts and not have to use a adjustable wrench and risk hitting the sharpen edges of the jaws with your hands if you slip . Don't forget about relief in the corner add a chamfer at the front and deburr all sharp edges with a file.
😮
When iam doing a job on the lathe , and iam clamping down on the o.d of the part, I bore a hole in my jaws.Then u just get some round stock and clamp down on it and then bore your jaws , at the same psi as your holding your part. Ive never put a taper in my jaws.And if ur jaws do start to wear just give them a quick skim.Ive worked on various sizes of parts and when u work on some parts iam talking half inch diameter by 6 inches in length , u want to get ur jaws as close as u can that way u have no slop when u load ur part., so by doing that your not clamping in the middle of the stroke your clamping in the beginning of the stroke and ive never had any problems with those parts.why do u need to clamp down right in the middle of the stroke? Is it for safety reasons
Mike Sticks As we talked about in the first "Soft Jaws" video, you achieve an accurate fit between your bored jaws and the part's diameter by machining the jaws to your nominal part size. That particular diameter you machine in the jaws can be made with the jaws clamped in the middle of jaw stroke, at either end of the stroke, or anywhere in between. The reason we recommend machining the jaws to size clamping the boring ring in the middle of stroke is a precaution, in case the part you're gripping is either under or oversize.
If you machine your OD jaws near the large (extended) end of jaw travel then there is very little difference between the part clamped position and the fully unclamped position, and if your part is slightly oversize your jaws may not open far enough to load your part. Quite inconvenient.
But of more concern, if you machine your OD jaws near the small (retracted) end of travel then there is very little difference between the part clamped position and the "full travel" clamped position. Now, if your part is slightly undersize, you run the risk of not quite clamping your part completely since you may run out of inward jaw travel before clamping the part. The jaws may not clamp the part tightly or only very lightly and you may think they are clamping fine only to find they are not when you go to cut the part and it cocks or spins in the jaws. Hope this helps! Let us know if you have any other questions.
Haas Automation, Inc. Yeah thats what I was thinking, I really a ppericiate you taking the time to back to me on that.Thanks much.
Mike Sticks
👍👍👍
It can provide Chinese instructions?
Да ,Так всё и делается .
теперь все ясно
There are Turners & there are Turnips!!
Andrew puts his jaws away and shuts down the machine. Then goes on a 2 day bender of women and whiskey to only call in sick on Monday! (several days later indeed)
OK good
Hanzhen harmonic gear , strain wave reducer , robot gear , over 30 years experience ,
человек разумный XD
nice video, until we arrived with these spices and Haas Company does not staged crash test for the machine. and what they can teach, and the machine is good if there was someone to teach it to work, sorry there is no video on the Russian
Great lathe for precision machining. Interesting video. But any machinist experienced enough to be assigned the lathe surely knows all of this beforehand. And the rest of us do not need the precision... or have to do without. So, I suppose this video is meant either to be used in machinist formation for such machines or to impress customers curious enough to want to learn how their pieces are made.
Or like me... a young man who has been in the machining trade for a year, in a small shop, with one programmer who doesn't have the time to show me anything. I have to read everything in a book and am sometimes hesitant to ask what would be stupid questions. I find machining very intimidating, but just learning some basics and being around the trade has helped my confidence. As well as videos like these.