When you listed of at the start "Scout is hated because of his mobility, Sniper is hated because of his range Demo is hated because of his spam" I really expected you to end it with "Soldier is hated because he has all three of these"
Yeah I found the reason a lot of people main soldier because he has very low skill floor and a lot of reward and he has very high skill roof with even more reward
Soldier is overall the best balance because you can't out right destroy a team. my personal favorite is direct Hit so much reward for well place shots.
@@samfisher2141 As much hate as it gets, I love using the direct hit because it teaches you good rocket placement and also teaches you not to rely on splash damage
I just hate random crits on soldier and demoman. It's worse than hitscan crits because those can miss even at point blank. You even graze the explosion hitbox of the crocket you immediately disintegrate
There he comes, his war screech anounces his presence, majesticly flying through the battlefield, naked, covered in honey, blood splattered in his shovel, proudly wearing a necklace of human ears, it represents his love for his fiance,(heavy's sister) and his terryfying efficiency at reducing men to bits.
We all joke about the occasional rage-heavy but i find that a lot of people's rage pick isn't heavy but soldier, hence the hate against him. It's the tryhard class, and with the negative connotation with tryhards then it's pretty obvious why it's hated
@@whoisanarnb, Apparently from what I've been told: That was dubious at best as even in the canon comics he shows disinterest, nor had it not been brought up in the said canon from what I recall. And it was said to be a joke, albeit yeah in very poor taste.
@@AnonTDegenerate, Who *currently* would be 70+-80?... Unless if there were a rift or something in reality to say TF2 ever existed and some of the wacky exposure throughout the years caused him & the others to become like genuine Super Soliders, wasn't the last someone did a twist on Superheros, mainly Snipers origins were a twist on Superman. Which if canon proceeded that would be an amazing edition, maybe for me because nothing can replace these Mercs, I could have a sketch of that somewhere given the time.
The only thing about soldier I hate is when he gets random crits. It normally takes 3 rocketed to kill a heavy, but when I'm heavy and just mowing down a soldier, do you think it's fun when I suddenly see that glow around his rocket, followed by my gibs flying and him surviving at 2 hp? Or is it fun when you round a corner with your medic pocketing you, giving you a ton of health and survivability, having just fully used an Uber, only to suddenly see TWO consecutive random crockets appear because some clueless fuck got lucky, destroying you and everyone you hold dear? If you say yes, you're either in denial or are BIG into masochism
That's an issue with random crits not soldier. Example: do you think it's fun as a medic to round the corner with your demoman with full Uber and a scout covering you but then some heavy just goes in with gibus and brass beast random crits all of your group to death denying all strategy just because some guy got lucky?
- shoot feet get kills - medic girlfriend - weaknesses are difficult to exploit if you are Not Good at the Game - Baggar's Begzooka - Vaporizes sentries in two clicks - rocket jumps AWAY FROM THE MEDIC WHO WAS BEGGING HIM TO PROTECT HIM FROM THE GODDAMN BATTLEFIELD OF PEOPLE TRYING TO KILL ME WHY GOD
the last point is extra annoying for quick fix medics this guy just launches me into the aie wothout even thinking to wait 1 sec just so that I woulsnt fly into a wall
TF2 was designed for soldier and demo, with scout taking up the caboose. They tried to make the next team fortress game less about explosive jumps by taking out grenades back in beta. But then they made the game 200% more enjoyable while rocket and sticky jumping. So while soldier and demo can flesh themselves out to be generalists with all different types of weapons and items that change how they play, almost every other class sits comfortably in their specialist zone with items and weapons that kinda-sorta-maybe-not-really give them a new way to play the class in the game, with the sniper being the most atrocious example. The Huntsman and Darwin Danger Shield had so much potential to be an avenue for the sniper to play the game in a different way. But instead they nerfed the darwin into a brain dead anti-pyro item that most people dont give a shit about in the first place, while also never fixing the huntsman and leaving it to float in the pond of door spamming with the rocket launcher and stickies.
the head hitboxes for the huntsman are kinds crazy but you literally never notice even when looking for it, and the sniper rifle has infinite range, why would you give that up for this stupid mid to close range weapon that means instant death if you miss the headshot?
@@society1876 The huntsman on paper is the polar opposite of the sniper rifle. The rifle covers medium and long range, and while not effective, can do close range. The huntsman covers close and medium range, and can still do long range. This could've been a decent option, but the problem is, if you really are struggling close range with the sniper rifle, the smg exists. There are no secondaries that cover long range, or make close range stronger with huntsman. They could've given sniper a backpack that gives him +25 max health, which may be enough to make huntsman viable. With the rifle, it'll be good, but you will still struggle in close range. Yes, he has cozy camper, but it doesn't really make him tankier. The huntsman has a lot of potential, really.
Demo isn't really a generalist, I would actually describe him as a specialist... He specializes in demolition and damage. Grenade launcher requires direct hits but deals the same amount of damage at any range on direct hit. With 4 nades in a clip you can do 400 damage over a couple of seconds if you aim really well. Rolling grenades is a thing but is kinda niche in its uses. Stickies are also really strong, 4 stickies = dead sentry. It is flexible enough to be used defensively and offensively. When combining stickies and nades, you have 12 shots that all deal good damage if aimed well. There is a lot of sustainability in terms of just shooting. The point I am making is that Demoman has 2 primary weapons, the Grenade Launcher and Sticky Launcher. They both deal good damage and are quite reliable. Demo has more damage potential than soldier. To be clear, the Shotgun, while strong in its own right, is not powerful enough to be a Primary weapon. The downsides, though is that his damage potential requires more aim and can be awkward in unexpected situations. The ability to point and shoot (albeit with rocket travel time) is much stronger in messy and/or awkward positions than grenade arc and sticky arm time. For example, Scout vs Soldier, that Scout really needs to take care to not get hit by rockets. Scout vs Demoman, that Demoman really needs to hit his shots. When it comes to explosive jumping, Demoman is weaker in that aspect. Demoman can go a lot of further than Soldier but the amount of damage he takes is also much higher than Soldier relative to their maximum health. Soldier can do 2 rocket jumps easily and still take a hit or two. Demoman with 2 explosive jumps, if he survives the fall he's nearly dead. Explosive jumping is powerful, but it's really risky for Demoman. Speaking about health, Demoman also has less health. Demoman is a very strong class. But he, IMO is not a generalist. He is, as his name suggests (demolition man), is a specialist in demolition and explosive damage. Soldier is a very strong class too and he is a generalist because he is extremely adaptable. Rocket Launcher, Shotgun, decent health, explosive jumping is not that risky which means high mobility, etc.
I got respect for this guy because not only does he come up with good alliteration at the beginning of every "why x is hated" video, he nails it in both meaning and pronunciation.
I really like where your videos are going! I’ve been watching since you started the “Why ___ is hated” series. And I have to say, this one is awesome! And I love your script for this one, it’s clever and silly, which is perfect for Tf2. I have one point I wanna mention besides your great choice in music for the video. I love all the choices, but I think they have a bit of a rough transition from one to another, that potentially, the issue is how rapidly they success one another. The vibe you are emulating overall is fantastic though and your work shows!! I hope I don’t come off as rude about the music though.
Soldier is just "You don't have skill and don't want to get trash talked for playing pyro? Play soldier! The need of aim is just the same as pyro with the benefit of more range, damage and survivability, and the plus no one will talk about your shitty aim"
@@toucanman1372 Soldier has to aim with the shotgun... Assuming that speciffic soldier is the 0.01% of the soldier players that know the shotgun exists
The Original has a buff of having a vastly different sound profile to most rockets (bassy and a bit quieter on bad headphones or with speakers that lack subwoofer) making it harder to noice/hear (comparable to spy quieter cloak) with no downsides
I have answer here: he has no cons and thats why people hate him. Every calls (without soldier) has atleast one con and thats also why soldier counters every class in game so if you encounter one... you better switch to him or die (It does not allow you to main your fav class)
I think people hate him since he is one of the best classes. And tryhards mainly play comp meta classes like demo, soldier, and scout. Soldier is the most common due to him being a jack of all trades, meaning many tryhards play him. And a lot of people hate tryhards.
soldier does not counter every class in the game. a competent scout can wipe the floor with a soldier and a airblast happy pyro has a sizeable advantage over one
@@quacksly509 If the Soldier has a brain (which is rare), they can aim more hits than a Scout, especially with the Direct Hit and will deal more damage against Pyros because of the shotgun. And, as a Pyro main, STOP BITCHING ABOUT AIRBLAST AND USE A SHOTGUN, SOLDIER MAINS.
@@YourLocalRaider 1. Competent scouts are incredibly hard for soldiers to hit because they take high ground, nullifying splash damage, which is ideally soldiers primary source of damage. Running the direct hit also deprives you of splash as well as making scouts harder to hit if they get up in your face and utilise tricky movement. 2. Running a shotgun drastically decreases the efficiency of soldiers strongest point, rocket jumping, which means selecting it over the gunboats solely to counter pyros gimps the soldier
more reasons would be: while the stock rocket launcher is comparable with the pre nerf sticky launcher with less damage and half the clip, the direct hit is comparable to the loch n load with 4 shots and guaranteed chance to one shot light classes, if demo had these weapons, everyone would complain about it but as soldiers has these weapons... the liberty launcher is probably the most balanced launcher
I’m used to Smash tier lists so my opinion might be a bit different, but the fact that Soldier has no hard counters and can go as far as your skill with him makes him the best class in the game (at least for pubs) in my mind. He isn’t an instant win for anyone, and some classes can be stronger in certain circumstances, but the fact that you can never truly safely engage a game-wise Soldier is frustrating; usually the best case scenario is a trade. And if he has a Kritz pocket, may God have mercy on your soul.
Most TF2 classes, in a pub setting, don't really have hard counters for the most part. Most classes can kill all of the other classes though in some cases you may need advantages like flanking, terrain, or distance details. The only exception is when the kill target is Sentry. The only two that needs a major advantage is Medic and (albeit a little less so) Engineer. To clear up what is probably common responses to this opinion of mine... Heavy is not a hard counter to pyro. Heavy has a range adventure over pyro. The direct damage of flamethrower has comparable DPS to Heavy's minigun. I don't remember the exact numbers but basically, a Pyro can win 1v1 against Heavy if the fight starts in close range. Pyro is not hard counter to Soldier, shotgun + mind games. Scout is not a hard counter to Demoman. Scouts can kill demomans pretty easily but will drop like a fly if they take a grenade or get cornered by stickies. IMO, the biggest hard counter is probably Sniper v Heavy, with range advantage. The area denial of Snipers and the slower more predictable movement of Heavies just creates that situation. Now with that said, that doesn't mean common 'hard counters' are not strong against other classes. Heavy is strong against pyro. Pyro is (assuming you can airblast effectively) is strong against Soldier. etc. It's just for the most part, everyone has a fighting chance against everyone else. The only ones that have extra details or doesn't hold true to that statement is Eny (without sentry), Medic (without teammates), and Sniper (because of range advantage and area denial).
He has the second biggest health pool, and can increase it further, one of the best agility moves, a good amount of damage and, what to me is the biggest problem, the whays to effectively counter him are really hard or high skill, sniper and pyro airblast. For me it doesnt make sense giving a class so versatile so much health, 175 would be more appropriate, and his downsides, his slow walking and low ammo arent really a downside with the omnipresensce of the rocket jump. Thats only my opinion, and im sorry for any gramatical errors, im not a native english speaker.
i know its your opinion but, he has 200 for more survivability while rocket jumping. if you compare a demo who uses 1 sticky per jump and a rocket jumping soldier, the demo is more likely to die. also the soldier wont get screwed over by his splash damage with that amount of hp
@@twitterhaha a better solution would be decreasing the percentage of damage he takes from his own rockets instead of increasing his health, giving him more survivability to a fight because he suffers with a mehanic of his own playstyle is frustrating for the other classes
@@peakwoop that would make sense if all maps were open, but close quarter sections/maps exist, and why would anyone play soldier if his rockets were unhitable?
"These three classes are hated for all these reasons, solider is hated for no good reason" mean while he just listed every reason solider is hated minus the amount of health he has to support his rocket jumping addiction.
If I'm in a pub game and we're getting our asses kicked, I always switch to Soldier to give us a fighting chance, and 90% of the time, it always works.
I... actually really hate soldier. As a purely pub player it's very annoying and he really doesn't have any downsides if you play him right (this is exponential with multiple). Also getting juggled just feels awful I with they'd reduce his player knockback a bit I know damage surfing is a thing but I hate getting deleted bc I lose control of my movement in midair
@@sugarrushambassador For me, the tragedy of his death really called attention to the mastery of his performance. Everyone else in the TF2 cast as well, they all played the mercs in such a perfect and unreplaceable way
i got a good reason to hate him: he’s too damn easy to play. splash damage is so fucking easy to hit along with the shear amount of mobility and damage he can put out just for aiming at his feet is stupid.
@@joeyjonquantaviusjr9927 honest though, I’ve tried the black box and the rockets don’t really heal dramatically unless you use it really well, and those soldiers use it well. If they bother you just go sniper, projectiles have to travel bullets not so much
I'm conceptualizing a TF2-esque game right now, and 3:13 made me realize, "Right, I should probably check how many different Weapons my Solly equivalent has." ...Turns out, there's, like, 6 or 7 of them right now, while every other Class has 2 or 3 which heavily deviate from Stock to fit a new role. Also, I made the _brilliant_ decision of combining Soldier's RL and Shotgun with Demoman's Stickybomb Launcher to make the ultimate Offense Class, then started wondering why every other Class didn't quite seem to beat him out in variety. Now, I need to rethink how every other Class will counter him and buff them accordingly, or otherwise he's gonna terrorize every match with a spam of Rockets, Stickies, and Shotgun shots. Thank you and everyone else in the comments for reminding me how strong generalist Classes are and why they could be a lot less fun to fight than I expected! (It's really obvious now that I know why, but it wasn't a few minutes ago. Odd how a lot of TF2's Weapons can make you have "Oh, so _that's_ how they do that!" moments so frequently, too!)
@@dombelly3343 Thanks, it's actually shifted back towards being a successor to TF2 more than anything lol - Solly with a Stickybomb Launcher is no longer a thing (just too much for a single character to have, plus Demoman is a great archetype for a character) - Every Class from TF2 is present, with interesting changes to shake up the not-really-stale gameplay (ever wanted Alt-Fire to shoot rockets backwards?) - 3 new Classes are being thrown into the mix, including the Tank and the very unorthodox Conjurer, and yes, they're all kind of outrageous, but also not really (sort of like why Spy is so weak in TF2) - In general, I've learned a lot by dropping the project, then picking it back up a few years later XD
I feel like soldier is too much of a poster child of perfection that shall do no wrong, so nobody will bring attention to any power issue he may have. This is something that personally becomes really annoying everytime i see yet another movement of the masses crying how pyro is garbage, pyro is unnecesary in the game, pyro is annoying, pyro is too powerful, pyro this and that. Hell not only that. "Demoknight is broken! Natasha negates my entire existence! Short circuit should die! Sniper needs to be purged from the universe!" It's always every other class or item. Meanwhile soldier will arrive at your general location faster than a scout, tank almost as many hits as a heavy, blow you up almost with the ease of a demo thanks to sheer damage output, and then bounce away or keep fighting, and we're supposed to pretend that's ok Also i love how the crowd will say "pyro takes no skill" when pyro, soldier and heavy in general are the classes with the lowest skill floor but noooo its only pyro apparently (yes as you can tell i hate how its almost a tradition to overhate pyro for no particular reason since forever. I've been playing tf2 since 2012 so i've seen a lot) At the end im just saying: look if we're gonna shit on something for being broken at least lets be fair about it and distribute the shit fairly. Pd: fuck the conch+black box combo
@@theoriginalstarwalker4357 exactly. a fresh install to even a 6 month "veteran" of those two classes are still easy pickings for someone even midly accustomed to the game.
When I, as a Spy main, because everyone who starts playing TF2 is a Spy main, started playing Soldier my initial reaction was "Wow, I don't need to be sneaky to kill a single Medic when I can wipe the floor with the enemy team as Soldier!" No need to say I am now a Soldier main ...I can't rocket jump
I mean when it comes to rocket jumping, all you really need is the ability to do decent single rocket jumps. The amount of value from being able to do that is quite high. Beyond that, it's actually rather niche IMO. I'm a Soldier main with 3000 hours in TF2, I don't play competitive. You can top score in a round without knowing multi-rocket rollouts or jumps.
I think the problem with soldier is the splash damage hitbox being way too long sometimes. I was literally shown a picture of it’s hitbox when i was new to TF2 and since that day i started killing everything except for pyros and heavies
I mean, he is literally the easiest class to play. 2nd highest HP, splash damage primary, Slow speed negated with rocket jumping to health packs, has a primary that restores health based on damage, has secondary that auto regenerates health. Now comparatively to other classes: Heavy has only 100 more health but can’t negate his speed penalty with his primary weapon. Demo man doesn’t have a primary that heals based on his blast damage to other players It is extremely difficult to rocket jump with a demo man. The only other classes cthat have auto regen are both sitting at 125 and 150 respectively. The one that’s sitting at 150 is built to suck at fighting (medic), and the one at 125 is designed to avoid frontal conflicts to begin with. The only class that has a primary weapon that heals you based on damage dealt is the spy, and he takes over a 50 point base health reduction with it and he literally has to be next to you to pull it off. Soldier is the easy mode, and frankly, playing as any other class puts you at a disadvantage. Heavies? Peak around the corner. Demos? Don’t go pass a wall you can’t see a stickie with. Sentries? Peak. Any other class other than soldier? Splash, damage.
IMO soldier is more OP than sniper. At least with sniper, bunny hopping and pressing A and D randomly will make the sniper miss most of the time. Most classes that get close to soldier usually have no chance of survival and the soldier didn't need to aim.
Just randomly found this through the algorithm and your writing is fuckin top notch holy shit its been a while since I've genuinely laughed at something like this
I think the reason people hate Soldier is because of how fairly low his general skill ceiling is he can become a powerhouse that requires little to no skill.
Still haven't watched yet, but I think the biggest reason why people hate Soldier is how broken he is once you master him. He becomes faster than Scout, dish out more potential damage than a Demoman via direct and splash, and is the second tankiest class in the game behind Heavy. He's solid at close range, and can be a threat at medium, and even if you manage to kill him, he'll just rollout fresh out of spawn to your face and destroy you and whoever you hold near and dear. He has a diverse variety of weapons and gear for any situation, and can buff his team with banners, or go for risky picks via Market Garden. He usually has a Medigun/Kritzkrieg up his rectum and even if his Medic GF is offline, he can just Concheror + Black Box to be nigh unkillable. Or just Direct Hit and delete you. I still believe he's one of the best-designed classes in the game though. All of that terror is used by the best of the best, not your average Jane Doe. His skill-ceiling is waaay up, and you may have to spend hundreds/thousands of hours just to be overall "Good" with him. If Heavy wasn't a thing, Soldier would've been the face of TF2.
Only thing I hate about soldier is how little incentive there is not to develop a foot fetish and only aim at the floor. It's not a fight that feels fair when all they need to do is look down and click in your general direction. Even pyros have to see you to do damage. Soldier and demo are the only classes that don't, but demo at least requires prediction.
No reason? I hate him cause he has no weaknesses. Literally any problem Soldier has, he’s capable of overcoming all on his own. And because of that, he’s the most common main in TF2, making him literally the basic pick.
He is extremly easy to play and get kills with. Splash damage does everything for you as long as you aim towards enemy. This is why barely any soldier main uses direct hit. They simply can't aim.
9:13 I can argue that Heavy also good counter to him . as long heavy is not damaged or fight soldier around corners . I find it easy to take on soldier (of course not multiple soldiers)
soldier simply gives too much for too little. once you get mediocre at him, you're automatically more consistently effective than a good player on any other class. the fact that he's technically "balanced" makes this worse. it means what even though everybody hates them, nobody has to do anything about him, and soldier mains can continue sitting back exerting 20% effort with 200% results. he is in practice what pyro is on paper, a class that covers everything and is covered by nothing. there is a reason why there is no "how to fight every class and win" video for soldier, or really all that much instruction material when it comes to how to play him, at least compared to other classes. you just don't need any. can you move your mouse and hit buttons on your keyboard? congratulations, you have what it takes to be a soldier main you can tell a lot about a person by what tf2 class they main, and when people main solder, it generally means that they don't like to actually try and they like everything handed to them. they can be quote-unquote "tryhards", sure, but being a tryhard soldier doesn't actually take any effort like the name would suggest. you just have to be more aggressive. that's not exactly difficult for a class with the second highest health pool in the game, the highest mobility potential in the game, and some of the most consistent damage output in the game. the only practical difference between a casual soldier and a tryhard soldier is whether they lean backward or forward in their chair when they play the game.
finally, somebody who realizes the issues with soldier and doesn't treat him as the "best" and "most respectable" class. Soldier is my least played class by far with around 40 hours, and I can still wipe the floor with him, even with the direct hit, which is said to be a very "skillful" unlock. Yes, it is more difficult to use than the other launchers, but it's still not too hard. Plus, it does way too much damage.
@@HeDronHeDronHedron give him at least 100 hours and he probably could. Depends on the team too. If the enemy team is competent, then just give him a pocket medic or change rocket launcher. Seriously, from what I’ve seen from soldier players, I don’t leave that out as a possibility. The moment it’s twelves though, it isn’t as easy for even 4 soldiers I imagine. Or better idea, get someone who actually does have 100 hours of soldier and do that.
@@TeenWithACarrotIDK there are soldiers with way more than 100 hours who haven’t mastered the class but apparently this random 100 hour player can? Ok lmao
I hate them, because there is so much of them. I only have, like, 1 play where there was no soldier. But, in this 2fort play all of our team except 1 sniper were engies.
Half zatoichi can be a pretty fun combo with the conch. Charge up your banner with your rockets, pop the banner, empty your clip and go on a tear with your meele with the bonus speed health on hit, health and overheal on kill
I think soldier's main weakness is the fact he has to sacrifice his health in order to gain burst mobility and vice versa. And though the gunboats exist, using them instead of the shotgun creates another serious weakness: you become hard-countered by a competent pyro.
@@fnutek3720 splash does alot of damage what are you talking about? it also has alot of knockback. and you dont have to bomb the enemy. even when you do if your even slightly competent the person you want to die will die.
@@cinemalazare4850 Splash doesnt do alot of damage, im sorry but you are too inexeperienced and obviously lack skill if you think soldier is above any other generalist.
The only annoying thing I can think of about the Soldier is that he has a control over your movement at a distance. Pyro needs to come close to airblast you, but Soldier can throw you around with his rockets, making it sometimes even impossible to dodge a second rocket after being hit by the first one.
That is, if they have good sense. Otherwise they’re snipers or spy. In which case, they’re so incompetent that they’re pretty much invisible to both teams
You ever just think about something you’ve known about for a long time and realize “wow, that’s crazy”? That’s how I’m feeling about rocket jumping. It’s always been a mechanic but it’s crazy that it’s a thing. And a very PROMINENT thing.
@@trollking6315 Absolutely incorrect, his downsides are that he can't last as long in a fight as other classes. By default, the amount of shots he has available at any one time is almost always smaller than that of a demoman (4 pipes, 8 stickies) and scout (6 Scattergun shots, 12 pistol shots), his movement abilities are also dependent on him expending health (which is a downside compared to scout) and he can't rely on the raw damage output over a short period of time that Demoman can, or to a lesser degree heavy. This is the whole point of the master of none concept, he's always reliable and never useless in any situation, but similarly he rarely has an intrinsic advantage over other classes and can't dominate the game without the skill to pay the bill.
As a Heavy main... Its more you hate everything rather than everyone hates you... most of the reasons why people hate heavy is because they have no excuse to die to one. There really is no reason to hate an enemy heavy because of how weak he already is... Which means if you die to one you most likely hate yourself more than the heavy because you know he earned it. But that wont stop you from taking your anger out on the heavy doing his job anyway. (By the way its been a while my friend thanks for the advice on my channel :D)
That's almost true, except when the heavy has a pocket medic or the team stacks heavies. Stacked heavies are basically unbeatable in defense and unstoppable when pushing the cart.
@@society1876 sure but the the discussion is more about medic than it is heavy at that point... We are talking about a lone Heavy... You give a medic pocket to anyone and they'll Excel... Even spy in some cases...
@@ekyanso4253 again the discussion is about heavy not whether or not he has a pocket.. in these video discussions they are for the class themselves not whether or not they are good with a medic... Heavy is his own class... So is medic... Pairing a medic with a heavy will of course make them stronger just like pairing a medic with any class will do so as well. But that isn't the point.
@@THE-CRIMSON-CAPTAIN spy? look man i love meme strats, god i love them, but half the time you cant even hesl the spy cuz hes cloaked, ubering the spy now THAT is good
Scout is hated because of mobility Sniper is hated because of range Demoman is hated because of spam And them we have soldier, that does all 3 things without a meaningful downside.
"soldier has the potential for the highest mobility in the game" "soldier's damage output is unchallenged within tf2" Having played 750 hours of demo racked up over two and a half years, I severely disagree.
Demo's mobility for the average player is good horizontally but the skill required for vertical jumps or extended jumps is typically outta the grasp unless you fully commit to it. Even then I would argue that Soldier would still triumphant it as all you really need is any surface and its a lot easier to pick up on.
@@FletcherCat thats a different variable though. good vs bad is now how you should judge balance of classes. Same skill level. every context, demo is better than soldier.
i swear, any moment that my friend that was new to tf2 was like dang i suck at this game, i would tell them no you don’t just play soldier and they fell in love with the game
Because fighting against the twentieth soldier main that day, is annoying. Because them only needing to aim at your feet is annoying. Because them jumping like a rabbit during combat is annoying. Because them jumping away when they start losing a fight is annoying. Because they have the black box, conch, and battalions backup. Few classes get weapons that increase their health, provides passive healing, or gives healing on hit, no one gets the trifecta. Because the other classes need some love, while soldier has the most varied play-style in the game. Because soldier has massive damage and mobility, while most other classes only get one or the other. Because the class attracts the most try-hards. That's all I have, probably forgetting something. Edit: forgot some weapons in my haste.
slight mistake there, the gunslinger increases engineer's health, as does Heavy's dalokohs bar (for a short period). Sniper's Cozy Camper provides passive healing, and medic has it as a passive by default. The Blutsauger also provides medic with health on hit with the trade off of his passive regen being far weaker/negligent.
9:28 That's actually not a great argument that someone would make, considering that rocket jumping was a bug for a different game (Quake). Rocket jumping was intended from the beginning for TF2 specifically, it's even in the trailer.
I mean when they have great map knowledge and are competent with movement and aim, they can be at 200 health or 2 after landing, they're still getting the jump on you and blasting you into orbit
I hate people forget this fact when talking about solider “hard” countering sniper, while that’s true to an extant a soldier more often than not will not arrive to a sniper with full hp or heck even enough hp to survive a quick scope to CHIP damage combo or just the quick scope and please don’t even TRY to tell me “just dodge his god like aim, he is human after all and will EVENTUALLY mess up” as soldier’s non rocket jump mobility is non existent even if he bunny hops, in fact (contrary to popular belief and instincts) bunny hoping may be the WORST thing you can do to *TRY* to mess up a average sniper main’s aim (not a bad ones aim an AVERAGE ones as I have noticed a worrying trend of the bad snipers no becoming less and less common as the days go by and the {not hackers and/or botter} oppressively good ones becoming AS COMON IF NOT MORE COMMON THAN the average ones and it’s almost like the source of the new/bad snipers has dried up and the reason for good snipers being rare has not been keeping the good snipers rare recently) as your movement, get this, becomes MORE predictable due to the fixed air direction jumping puts on you also rocket jumping to dodge isn’t as strong as you think because 1. Sniper nowadays know how to hit a airborne solider 2. Rocket jumping deals sigifant self damage 3. Every time you rocket jumped you didn’t shoot at the sniper, buying him the time he may need for a teammate to respawn or for him to run away to his spawn, of course none of this matters if you just so happened to have not been seen by the sniper or his ELEVEN OTHER TEAMMATES YOU HAVE TO GET PAST FIRST but then again this is a situational weakness that sniper has that ANY class can take advantage of, tl:dr: sniper isn’t a weak or vulnerable as the sniper ma- I mean apologists make him out to be even against this powerful jack of all trades and his absolute BS rocket juggling and also skill may not be as strong of an argument for sniper staying the way he is as it was back then, thus he DOES need a nerf, even if it only comes to his melee lag hitbox abusing jarate bushwaka combo that takes ZERO SKILL I WILL DIE ON THAT HILL YOU EDGEY PUBSTOMPING WITH NO REAL RISK TO SELF PEICES OF- (p.s. fall damage exists too so a sniper will rarely have to fight a more than 150 hp solider even if that solider has the gunboats or battalion’s backup equipped)
@@GoodlyData86596 When the only counterplay is relying on the Sniper to mess up, there's a problem. Same principle applies in any video game, just swap Sniper for any other character who's way too dominant.
i hate the gunboats mostly for the fact that it negates the whole downside of taking self damage for mobility, while most players will disagree with me I don't like dealing with gunboats soldiers "oh but he loses a secondary option when using these" that don't matter to soldier, 4 explosive rockets can kill basically anything, plus crockets are B.S (pun intended)
@@jairomelgarejoreyes1609 What about them? Pyro is a gunboats soldier's main counter, and they're not hard to find either as basically every server has a pyro. Do you think every single class should counter it?
by equipping the gunboats good scouts and pyros can kick your shit in + you lose the incredibly powerful supportive utility of the banners, its a balanced unlock.
I’m a soldier main, so I’m gonna argue against the statement “Soldier Shouldn’t be able to Rocket Jump.” It was a bug in Quake and TFC, and Valve made it a feature in TF2
Because he's easy af to master lol. People out there actually believing rocket jumping takes 100+ hours to learn, but in reality it takes like 2 hours to understand it properly. High as shit damage from literally any of his rocket launchers (except the one) which makes all of them a good choice in any situation. He's slow but has literally 3 items that makes him run faster so its negated heavily. He has literally no downsides. Wanna deal high damage? Rocket launcher. Airblasting Pyros and sticky demos? Shotgun. A crazy ass Scout trying to hit you with a fish? *Whip crit sound*
I think people sleep a little too much on the shotgun. I think the shotgun is by far a much more meta pick than the gunboats if youre very confident in your shotgun aim. Just a couple of things you might not know: 1. The rocket launcher takes 0.8s to fire the next rocket, while switching to your shotgun takes 0.5s, so its faster to shoot a rocket and fire a shotgun shot than firing off 2 rockets. If youre 1v1ing another soldier, and you both have hit 2 rockets on each other, immediately switching to your shotgun and hitting a single shot, even a grazing one, would likely kill the soldier considering 2 rockets would put both of you in red health range. 2. The shotgun actually shoots faster than the rocket launcher (0.625s vs 0.8s) . So you can shoot 2 shotgun shots in the time it takes for an enemy to fire one rocket. You can also fire 1 rocket and 2 shotgun shots before the enemy soldier can fire 3 rockets, and usually in a soldier confrontation, 3 rockets are needed to kill an enemy soldier, while 1 rocket and 2 shotgun shots will kill a soldier if aimed decently well. (I usually prefer to just shoot 2 rockets and switch to shotgun though) 3. The shotgun has a higher dps than the rocket launcher (assuming max dps). Both have damage fall off due to spread or the way explosion damage works, but the point is that youre not exactly losing out on damage if youre using the shotgun vs a rocket launcher. 4. The shotgun does no self damage. This sometimes plays a role, esp when fighting within a pyro's flamethrower range or in really close quarters with another class. A point blank rocket shot can do a max of 46 self damage. If you use a shotgun, you would not only do a max of 88 damage, but you might save yourself up to 46 self damage, and you can punish an enemy soldier/sticky demo for using rockets at close range. 5. Also worth noting it takes 0.92s to reload your first rocket. If youre gonna be bombing a group of enemies, youre likely not going to finish all of them off by the time your rocket launcher is empty. It takes 0.5s to switch to your shotgun. Gunboats basically makes rocket jumping really cheap, but considering a rocket jump would do roughly 40 dmg, if youre only considering bombing, youre really just asking is a shotgun worth taking roughly 30 extra damage than if i had the gunboats? Gunboats are more for putting out fires (figuratively ofc), spamming in places that need the pressure and looking for vulerable fish to fry. The shotgun is more for those who have a good/pocket medic or the have to clear out a heavily occupied position.
Just gonna say. The bison and jumper they uh... yeah they exist. Though soldier isn't a main class of mine, I'd agree with the whole "jack of all trades and master of none" trope he has. I'd also argue that the soldier isn't a threat if he can't rocket jump, but that'd be stating the obvious
"the soldier was clearly designed to be the most balanced and well-rounded class in the game" >proceeds to list all the reasons soldier is poorly designed and OP
4 Reasons why Soldier is hated by the community gamers. 1. He only gets beaten when he's playing at his enemies ideal. (You don't expect to beat a soldier in TF2 unless your class is meant to be winning in that regard anyways. Scout / Spy - you ambush him when he's not focused on you; Pyro - Caught him mid jump so he either has to try and fake pump a reflect out of you or switch to a shotgun if he has one and try not to die to the flamethrower. Demo; IF he gets anywhere mid range to close range, he will always trade with you and ground splash rather than try directs which you need. If you try to sticky spam, he'll surf it with his higher hp pool and leave or just kill you outright before you can detonate. Heavy- he'll run away if you're chipping him from afar and not bother or else he lands to close and you mow him down with the point blank 200+dps you're able to dish out. Engi - if he sees your building, you're not factor since he can corner splash. Sniper - Outside of long range body shots, a jumping soldier is going to either run or get in your face. Medic - he eats you for breakfast lunch and dinner. 2. The achievement says it best "Crockets are BS" Chipping down a 200hp target is hard enough as is in any stock case. Positioning, set up, trading... all are a factor. Meanwhile, Numbnutz just has to point at your feet and do 270 damage. Making any 1v1 a case of, do I feel lucky. 3. How most Soldiers act. It's a game that's been out for 15 years now... we all know the stigma. Soldiers that bomb in on light classes or clean up kills and just shoot the ground rather than try and be precise. Taunt/bind/BM. Nothing says toxic/sweaty try hard about a class with the highest mobility in the game running you down and killing you with the most brain dead tactic and acting like it was PotG moment that defined the match. 4. For a class that is supposed to represent being balanced, he is FAR from balanced, as they gave him the very best unlocks in the entire game. Sure he's 'Balanced' in stock but outside of that, there's NOTHING that soldier can't deal with reasonably, or outclass in some way. Scout - Mobility / Rocket jumping Pyro - Utility / Banners & Whip Demo - Spam / Beggars Heavy - DPS & HP / AOE and all the minigun's unlocks all provide side quirks that all are worse than stock aside from the Tomislav Engi - Building / THE DIRECT HIT Sniper - Long range harass / THE COW MANGLER AND DIRECT HIT MEDIC - Healing / The no medic gf load out (black box / conch / escape plan) Spy - Worst class in the game and has to specifically do trades / AOE and Crits can effectively shut down any hold. TL;DR soldier is hated because they did nothing but give him everything he didn't need to be balanced but everything they could have to make a discount version of every other class with a skill ceiling that does their job better outside of the medic and engi. If they had it where soldier does more self damage from the rocket jumps and/or reduce the damage from ground splash. Maybe make it so random crits don't do crit damage on ground splash. Slow down the firing speed on all rockets outside of the beggars and liberty launcher. Then yes, he'd be balanced. But as it stands, the Heavy is the Face on TF2 but everyone knows the Soldier - with the skill floor so low you can see it under some of the maps, and so high you'd need jump map training to reach it; and with some weapons that are made to be overpowered. On a class that has no downside that isn't handled in its own kit - is indeed the Poster Boy of what everyone wants to be at least once. That raging try hard with a kritzkrieg medic getting a god like in a pub game. And they say Spy mains have the biggest egos. At least they do well on the worst class of the game without any jank to cover them like having the weapon with the largest melee range (Whip) in a class that has 3 weapons they would use point blank anyhow (Stock/Direct Miss/Gardner)!
Doesn’t everyone hate every class? Scout - hate for scatter gun double taps Soldier - hate for rocket bombing Pyro - wow do people hate pyro Engine - hate for cheeky sentry placements Heavy - well, nobody can really hate the heavy. Demo - hate for sticky bombs Medic - hate for Uber charges and the vaccinator. Spy - hate for trick stabs and dead ringer Sniper - let me play the damn game!
@@justasimplemanworkinghiswa1569 Natasha I understand. I got tilted on Hightower by some demo knights in a 1 v 2 at three am and went Natasha rage heavy. I sat on the cart and gunned them all down while riding the cart up the elevator sweaty tryhard style. One even switched to bombing soldier and I was still merciless. I won the round and ragequit out of spite. I felt dirty but vindicated. As for flank ambush Heavy I have nothing but respect. Between scouts spies and soldiers the flank is the hardest place for a heavy to advance. If you make progress as Heavy on the flank then you earned your kills.
Pyro and Soldier are what I call the "Brain dead classes". You don't have to be good at either to play well with them. I fucking suck at soldier but do pretty damn well with him. Splash damage is just....ugh...
![[TF2] Why People Hate Heavy](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IRjqwT0VNd0/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Why People Hate Heavy](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Why People Hate Medic](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yZ_0b6fuwaI/mqdefault.jpg)
When you listed of at the start
"Scout is hated because of his mobility,
Sniper is hated because of his range
Demo is hated because of his spam"
I really expected you to end it with
"Soldier is hated because he has all three of these"
thanks for the summary
soldier is literally the stock of the classes
wdym
@@frimnpi7473 he means like, soldier is the default option
@@gazoofio oh
@@frimnpi7473 pretty good at every situation with no downside its basically everything a stock weapon should be
Fax
Yeah I found the reason a lot of people main soldier because he has very low skill floor and a lot of reward and he has very high skill roof with even more reward
Soldier is overall the best balance because you can't out right destroy a team.
my personal favorite is direct Hit so much reward for well place shots.
That’s my exact thinking to soldiers, I always classify him as the beginner’s class in tf2
@@samfisher2141 As much hate as it gets, I love using the direct hit because it teaches you good rocket placement and also teaches you not to rely on splash damage
I just hate random crits on soldier and demoman.
It's worse than hitscan crits because those can miss even at point blank.
You even graze the explosion hitbox of the crocket you immediately disintegrate
what lol
Soldier is quite literally the textbook definition of a swiss army knife; he has everything
There he comes, his war screech anounces his presence, majesticly flying through the battlefield, naked, covered in honey, blood splattered in his shovel, proudly wearing a necklace of human ears, it represents his love for his fiance,(heavy's sister) and his terryfying efficiency at reducing men to bits.
this isnt just a comment, this is a quote
@@ballsucker89 🤓
@@chrisdawson1776 🤓
@@hutki_shira 🤓
Unfortunately for me my soldier experience boils down to this. Take the direct hit, and get rid of all of its upsides.
@themadshack I'm guessing what he means is that he can't aim.
You know, the quote continues:
“A jack of all trades is a master of none, but will always be better than a master of one”
Unless you happen to master a single punch!
I feel threatened.
@@jackofallmains4038 Oh nyos!
I find it funny how that saying is one of the ones that actually means the opposite of how people always use it
While you may not perform as well as the person who specializes in a single thing, you will outperform them when it comes to everything else.
1:09 I like how he just shot a Crocket while talking about how soldier is balanced
Random crits aren't balanced regardless of class
Muh balance
We all joke about the occasional rage-heavy but i find that a lot of people's rage pick isn't heavy but soldier, hence the hate against him. It's the tryhard class, and with the negative connotation with tryhards then it's pretty obvious why it's hated
He's also overpowered lmao
Soldier should 100% not be trusted around children
He would just teach them how not to be commies or else they get a crocket in the face.
Actually that canonically would be scout.
@@AnonTDegenerate I wouldn’t fully believe scout is a pedo. He is probably just so dumb that he wouldn’t understand age gaps. Still a pedo though.
@@whoisanarnb, Apparently from what I've been told: That was dubious at best as even in the canon comics he shows disinterest, nor had it not been brought up in the said canon from what I recall. And it was said to be a joke, albeit yeah in very poor taste.
@@AnonTDegenerate, Who *currently* would be 70+-80?... Unless if there were a rift or something in reality to say TF2 ever existed and some of the wacky exposure throughout the years caused him & the others to become like genuine Super Soliders, wasn't the last someone did a twist on Superheros, mainly Snipers origins were a twist on Superman.
Which if canon proceeded that would be an amazing edition, maybe for me because nothing can replace these Mercs, I could have a sketch of that somewhere given the time.
The only thing about soldier I hate is when he gets random crits. It normally takes 3 rocketed to kill a heavy, but when I'm heavy and just mowing down a soldier, do you think it's fun when I suddenly see that glow around his rocket, followed by my gibs flying and him surviving at 2 hp?
Or is it fun when you round a corner with your medic pocketing you, giving you a ton of health and survivability, having just fully used an Uber, only to suddenly see TWO consecutive random crockets appear because some clueless fuck got lucky, destroying you and everyone you hold dear?
If you say yes, you're either in denial or are BIG into masochism
That's an issue with random crits not soldier.
Example: do you think it's fun as a medic to round the corner with your demoman with full Uber and a scout covering you but then some heavy just goes in with gibus and brass beast random crits all of your group to death denying all strategy just because some guy got lucky?
I mean when IM the soldier its pretty fun
In my opinion:
Range weapons should not have random crits.
Melee weapons are a last resource so no problem with that.
It's random crits any class with random crits is annoying
@@jairomelgarejoreyes1609 That actually sounds like a good solution to the crit debate
- shoot feet get kills
- medic girlfriend
- weaknesses are difficult to exploit if you are Not Good at the Game
- Baggar's Begzooka
- Vaporizes sentries in two clicks
- rocket jumps AWAY FROM THE MEDIC WHO WAS BEGGING HIM TO PROTECT HIM FROM THE GODDAMN BATTLEFIELD OF PEOPLE TRYING TO KILL ME WHY GOD
the last point is extra annoying for quick fix medics
this guy just launches me into the aie wothout even thinking to wait 1 sec just so that I woulsnt fly into a wall
You should hate me because whenever I'm present the entire team WILL be at full health
Nice try, we all know that’s actually the dispenser.
@@pepperonipizza8200 have you ever been amputated?
@@the_apotecary_from_tf2 *TAUNT INTENSIFIES*
@@LucasSantos-si4nd I see you're a man of medicine as well
@@the_apotecary_from_tf2 THANK YOU HER DOCTAR
TF2 was designed for soldier and demo, with scout taking up the caboose. They tried to make the next team fortress game less about explosive jumps by taking out grenades back in beta. But then they made the game 200% more enjoyable while rocket and sticky jumping.
So while soldier and demo can flesh themselves out to be generalists with all different types of weapons and items that change how they play, almost every other class sits comfortably in their specialist zone with items and weapons that kinda-sorta-maybe-not-really give them a new way to play the class in the game, with the sniper being the most atrocious example. The Huntsman and Darwin Danger Shield had so much potential to be an avenue for the sniper to play the game in a different way.
But instead they nerfed the darwin into a brain dead anti-pyro item that most people dont give a shit about in the first place, while also never fixing the huntsman and leaving it to float in the pond of door spamming with the rocket launcher and stickies.
the head hitboxes for the huntsman are kinds crazy but you literally never notice even when looking for it, and the sniper rifle has infinite range, why would you give that up for this stupid mid to close range weapon that means instant death if you miss the headshot?
@@society1876 Because standing at the back of the map, waiting for a headshot, is boring.
@@society1876 The huntsman on paper is the polar opposite of the sniper rifle. The rifle covers medium and long range, and while not effective, can do close range. The huntsman covers close and medium range, and can still do long range.
This could've been a decent option, but the problem is, if you really are struggling close range with the sniper rifle, the smg exists. There are no secondaries that cover long range, or make close range stronger with huntsman. They could've given sniper a backpack that gives him +25 max health, which may be enough to make huntsman viable. With the rifle, it'll be good, but you will still struggle in close range. Yes, he has cozy camper, but it doesn't really make him tankier. The huntsman has a lot of potential, really.
Demo isn't really a generalist, I would actually describe him as a specialist... He specializes in demolition and damage. Grenade launcher requires direct hits but deals the same amount of damage at any range on direct hit. With 4 nades in a clip you can do 400 damage over a couple of seconds if you aim really well.
Rolling grenades is a thing but is kinda niche in its uses.
Stickies are also really strong, 4 stickies = dead sentry. It is flexible enough to be used defensively and offensively.
When combining stickies and nades, you have 12 shots that all deal good damage if aimed well. There is a lot of sustainability in terms of just shooting.
The point I am making is that Demoman has 2 primary weapons, the Grenade Launcher and Sticky Launcher. They both deal good damage and are quite reliable. Demo has more damage potential than soldier. To be clear, the Shotgun, while strong in its own right, is not powerful enough to be a Primary weapon.
The downsides, though is that his damage potential requires more aim and can be awkward in unexpected situations. The ability to point and shoot (albeit with rocket travel time) is much stronger in messy and/or awkward positions than grenade arc and sticky arm time. For example, Scout vs Soldier, that Scout really needs to take care to not get hit by rockets. Scout vs Demoman, that Demoman really needs to hit his shots.
When it comes to explosive jumping, Demoman is weaker in that aspect. Demoman can go a lot of further than Soldier but the amount of damage he takes is also much higher than Soldier relative to their maximum health.
Soldier can do 2 rocket jumps easily and still take a hit or two. Demoman with 2 explosive jumps, if he survives the fall he's nearly dead. Explosive jumping is powerful, but it's really risky for Demoman.
Speaking about health, Demoman also has less health.
Demoman is a very strong class. But he, IMO is not a generalist. He is, as his name suggests (demolition man), is a specialist in demolition and explosive damage.
Soldier is a very strong class too and he is a generalist because he is extremely adaptable. Rocket Launcher, Shotgun, decent health, explosive jumping is not that risky which means high mobility, etc.
The grenades change was more to make it less campy IIRC?
Now you wait a minute here mister! I can tell you that everything you said in this video is…….absolutely correct
I got respect for this guy because not only does he come up with good alliteration at the beginning of every "why x is hated" video, he nails it in both meaning and pronunciation.
I really like where your videos are going! I’ve been watching since you started the “Why ___ is hated” series. And I have to say, this one is awesome! And I love your script for this one, it’s clever and silly, which is perfect for Tf2.
I have one point I wanna mention besides your great choice in music for the video. I love all the choices, but I think they have a bit of a rough transition from one to another, that potentially, the issue is how rapidly they success one another.
The vibe you are emulating overall is fantastic though and your work shows!! I hope I don’t come off as rude about the music though.
He is getting so much better at SFM animations. It been great to see his journey.
"Why people hate soldier"
Soldier : *covers himself in honey and rush to destroy that guy's house*
0:54 Given the setup, and the rest of the video content, I was really expecting you to say "And soldier is hated for all 3 at once" lol
Soldier is just "You don't have skill and don't want to get trash talked for playing pyro? Play soldier! The need of aim is just the same as pyro with the benefit of more range, damage and survivability, and the plus no one will talk about your shitty aim"
With pyro you at least have to aim with the flare
@@toucanman1372 Soldier has to aim with the shotgun... Assuming that speciffic soldier is the 0.01% of the soldier players that know the shotgun exists
Yea just not many soldiers run shotgun
@@toucanman1372 false
@@DFFilmmaker they mostly use banners
The Original has a buff of having a vastly different sound profile to most rockets (bassy and a bit quieter on bad headphones or with speakers that lack subwoofer) making it harder to noice/hear (comparable to spy quieter cloak) with no downsides
Actually other people can hear the original reload sound while the stock rocket launcher reload cannot be heard so there is technical a downside
@@bathe9373 why is it like that
I have answer here: he has no cons and thats why people hate him.
Every calls (without soldier) has atleast one con and thats also why soldier counters every class in game so if you encounter one... you better switch to him or die (It does not allow you to main your fav class)
I think people hate him since he is one of the best classes. And tryhards mainly play comp meta classes like demo, soldier, and scout. Soldier is the most common due to him being a jack of all trades, meaning many tryhards play him. And a lot of people hate tryhards.
What if your fav class *is* soldier?..
soldier does not counter every class in the game. a competent scout can wipe the floor with a soldier and a airblast happy pyro has a sizeable advantage over one
@@quacksly509 If the Soldier has a brain (which is rare), they can aim more hits than a Scout, especially with the Direct Hit and will deal more damage against Pyros because of the shotgun.
And, as a Pyro main, STOP BITCHING ABOUT AIRBLAST AND USE A SHOTGUN, SOLDIER MAINS.
@@YourLocalRaider 1. Competent scouts are incredibly hard for soldiers to hit because they take high ground, nullifying splash damage, which is ideally soldiers primary source of damage. Running the direct hit also deprives you of splash as well as making scouts harder to hit if they get up in your face and utilise tricky movement.
2. Running a shotgun drastically decreases the efficiency of soldiers strongest point, rocket jumping, which means selecting it over the gunboats solely to counter pyros gimps the soldier
i used to hate soldier's thicc splash damage area until i found out it is basically used to counter scout double jumping everywhere
that's why I hate soldier lol
more reasons would be:
while the stock rocket launcher is comparable with the pre nerf sticky launcher with less damage and half the clip, the direct hit is comparable to the loch n load with 4 shots and guaranteed chance to one shot light classes, if demo had these weapons, everyone would complain about it but as soldiers has these weapons...
the liberty launcher is probably the most balanced launcher
Direct hit does less damage than loch n load whenever you are further away than like 10 meters lol
Woah spaceguy is finally online
magic
I’m used to Smash tier lists so my opinion might be a bit different, but the fact that Soldier has no hard counters and can go as far as your skill with him makes him the best class in the game (at least for pubs) in my mind. He isn’t an instant win for anyone, and some classes can be stronger in certain circumstances, but the fact that you can never truly safely engage a game-wise Soldier is frustrating; usually the best case scenario is a trade. And if he has a Kritz pocket, may God have mercy on your soul.
Most TF2 classes, in a pub setting, don't really have hard counters for the most part.
Most classes can kill all of the other classes though in some cases you may need advantages like flanking, terrain, or distance details.
The only exception is when the kill target is Sentry.
The only two that needs a major advantage is Medic and (albeit a little less so) Engineer.
To clear up what is probably common responses to this opinion of mine...
Heavy is not a hard counter to pyro. Heavy has a range adventure over pyro. The direct damage of flamethrower has comparable DPS to Heavy's minigun. I don't remember the exact numbers but basically, a Pyro can win 1v1 against Heavy if the fight starts in close range.
Pyro is not hard counter to Soldier, shotgun + mind games.
Scout is not a hard counter to Demoman. Scouts can kill demomans pretty easily but will drop like a fly if they take a grenade or get cornered by stickies.
IMO, the biggest hard counter is probably Sniper v Heavy, with range advantage. The area denial of Snipers and the slower more predictable movement of Heavies just creates that situation.
Now with that said, that doesn't mean common 'hard counters' are not strong against other classes. Heavy is strong against pyro. Pyro is (assuming you can airblast effectively) is strong against Soldier. etc.
It's just for the most part, everyone has a fighting chance against everyone else.
The only ones that have extra details or doesn't hold true to that statement is Eny (without sentry), Medic (without teammates), and Sniper (because of range advantage and area denial).
pyro is one of my most played classes and 90% of the time i only ever switch to him to counter annoying ass soldiers
Soldier is just that enormous cockroach who refuses to die even after 5 cans of roach killer
He has the second biggest health pool, and can increase it further, one of the best agility moves, a good amount of damage and, what to me is the biggest problem, the whays to effectively counter him are really hard or high skill, sniper and pyro airblast. For me it doesnt make sense giving a class so versatile so much health, 175 would be more appropriate, and his downsides, his slow walking and low ammo arent really a downside with the omnipresensce of the rocket jump. Thats only my opinion, and im sorry for any gramatical errors, im not a native english speaker.
i know its your opinion but, he has 200 for more survivability while rocket jumping. if you compare a demo who uses 1 sticky per jump and a rocket jumping soldier, the demo is more likely to die. also the soldier wont get screwed over by his splash damage with that amount of hp
@@twitterhaha a better solution would be decreasing the percentage of damage he takes from his own rockets instead of increasing his health, giving him more survivability to a fight because he suffers with a mehanic of his own playstyle is frustrating for the other classes
woah it's really hard to dodge a slow moving projectile
@@peakwoop that would make sense if all maps were open, but close quarter sections/maps exist, and why would anyone play soldier if his rockets were unhitable?
@@peakwoop there is something called... "splash damage", you dont need to aim mate.
"I don't think many people really hate soldier."
Meanwhile it's the class I easily hate most.
"These three classes are hated for all these reasons, solider is hated for no good reason" mean while he just listed every reason solider is hated minus the amount of health he has to support his rocket jumping addiction.
If I'm in a pub game and we're getting our asses kicked, I always switch to Soldier to give us a fighting chance, and 90% of the time, it always works.
For anyone wondering the music starting during the begger's bazooka part is the 2 player theme from mean bean machine.
I... actually really hate soldier. As a purely pub player it's very annoying and he really doesn't have any downsides if you play him right (this is exponential with multiple). Also getting juggled just feels awful I with they'd reduce his player knockback a bit I know damage surfing is a thing but I hate getting deleted bc I lose control of my movement in midair
What class(es) do you play most?
@@ShiddyKong engineer scout and demo. It's not about matchups in casual the most generalist of generalists is just really strong
Since the death of Rick May, it’s just not been the same…
Godspeed, you magnificent bastard.
@@sugarrushambassador For me, the tragedy of his death really called attention to the mastery of his performance. Everyone else in the TF2 cast as well, they all played the mercs in such a perfect and unreplaceable way
“rarely used”
Soldiers spamming down Snipers on 2fort battlements:
I remember one person who hated soldier so much that he would genuinely hate you like you killed his dog just for picking soldier.
i got a good reason to hate him: he’s too damn easy to play. splash damage is so fucking easy to hit along with the shear amount of mobility and damage he can put out just for aiming at his feet is stupid.
I’ve literally never been angry at a solder, rockets make it feel like it’s my fault I got hit
Exception: brain dead black box soldier spamming down 2 fort sewers, and crockets 4 of your teammates in the process with all his health still there
@@joeyjonquantaviusjr9927 honest though, I’ve tried the black box and the rockets don’t really heal dramatically unless you use it really well, and those soldiers use it well. If they bother you just go sniper, projectiles have to travel bullets not so much
I'm conceptualizing a TF2-esque game right now, and 3:13 made me realize, "Right, I should probably check how many different Weapons my Solly equivalent has."
...Turns out, there's, like, 6 or 7 of them right now, while every other Class has 2 or 3 which heavily deviate from Stock to fit a new role.
Also, I made the _brilliant_ decision of combining Soldier's RL and Shotgun with Demoman's Stickybomb Launcher to make the ultimate Offense Class, then started wondering why every other Class didn't quite seem to beat him out in variety.
Now, I need to rethink how every other Class will counter him and buff them accordingly, or otherwise he's gonna terrorize every match with a spam of Rockets, Stickies, and Shotgun shots.
Thank you and everyone else in the comments for reminding me how strong generalist Classes are and why they could be a lot less fun to fight than I expected! (It's really obvious now that I know why, but it wasn't a few minutes ago. Odd how a lot of TF2's Weapons can make you have "Oh, so _that's_ how they do that!" moments so frequently, too!)
good luck on your game
@@dombelly3343 Thanks, it's actually shifted back towards being a successor to TF2 more than anything lol
- Solly with a Stickybomb Launcher is no longer a thing (just too much for a single character to have, plus Demoman is a great archetype for a character)
- Every Class from TF2 is present, with interesting changes to shake up the not-really-stale gameplay (ever wanted Alt-Fire to shoot rockets backwards?)
- 3 new Classes are being thrown into the mix, including the Tank and the very unorthodox Conjurer, and yes, they're all kind of outrageous, but also not really (sort of like why Spy is so weak in TF2)
- In general, I've learned a lot by dropping the project, then picking it back up a few years later XD
I feel like soldier is too much of a poster child of perfection that shall do no wrong, so nobody will bring attention to any power issue he may have.
This is something that personally becomes really annoying everytime i see yet another movement of the masses crying how pyro is garbage, pyro is unnecesary in the game, pyro is annoying, pyro is too powerful, pyro this and that.
Hell not only that. "Demoknight is broken! Natasha negates my entire existence! Short circuit should die! Sniper needs to be purged from the universe!" It's always every other class or item.
Meanwhile soldier will arrive at your general location faster than a scout, tank almost as many hits as a heavy, blow you up almost with the ease of a demo thanks to sheer damage output, and then bounce away or keep fighting, and we're supposed to pretend that's ok
Also i love how the crowd will say "pyro takes no skill" when pyro, soldier and heavy in general are the classes with the lowest skill floor but noooo its only pyro apparently (yes as you can tell i hate how its almost a tradition to overhate pyro for no particular reason since forever. I've been playing tf2 since 2012 so i've seen a lot)
At the end im just saying: look if we're gonna shit on something for being broken at least lets be fair about it and distribute the shit fairly.
Pd: fuck the conch+black box combo
heavy and pyro get annihilated if they dont know what theyre doing.
A newbie soldier can press left click 4 times and you are dead
@@theoriginalstarwalker4357 exactly. a fresh install to even a 6 month "veteran" of those two classes are still easy pickings for someone even midly accustomed to the game.
@@Neymarinet i have been playing tf2 for over a year and a half and a peeking soldier can still easily kill me
This comment reeks of casual opinion.
@@fnutek3720 furry
When I, as a Spy main, because everyone who starts playing TF2 is a Spy main, started playing Soldier my initial reaction was "Wow, I don't need to be sneaky to kill a single Medic when I can wipe the floor with the enemy team as Soldier!"
No need to say I am now a Soldier main
...I can't rocket jump
I mean when it comes to rocket jumping, all you really need is the ability to do decent single rocket jumps.
The amount of value from being able to do that is quite high. Beyond that, it's actually rather niche IMO.
I'm a Soldier main with 3000 hours in TF2, I don't play competitive. You can top score in a round without knowing multi-rocket rollouts or jumps.
@@tylerbreau4544 I know that is true, because it tends to work out like that
I think the problem with soldier is the splash damage hitbox being way too long sometimes. I was literally shown a picture of it’s hitbox when i was new to TF2 and since that day i started killing everything except for pyros and heavies
I mean, he is literally the easiest class to play.
2nd highest HP,
splash damage primary,
Slow speed negated with rocket jumping to health packs,
has a primary that restores health based on damage,
has secondary that auto regenerates health.
Now comparatively to other classes:
Heavy has only 100 more health but can’t negate his speed penalty with his primary weapon.
Demo man doesn’t have a primary that heals based on his blast damage to other players
It is extremely difficult to rocket jump with a demo man.
The only other classes cthat have auto regen are both sitting at 125 and 150 respectively. The one that’s sitting at 150 is built to suck at fighting (medic), and the one at 125 is designed to avoid frontal conflicts to begin with.
The only class that has a primary weapon that heals you based on damage dealt is the spy, and he takes over a 50 point base health reduction with it and he literally has to be next to you to pull it off.
Soldier is the easy mode, and frankly, playing as any other class puts you at a disadvantage. Heavies? Peak around the corner. Demos? Don’t go pass a wall you can’t see a stickie with. Sentries? Peak. Any other class other than soldier? Splash, damage.
90% of my deaths as medic is staring at a crit rocket flying at my face
IMO soldier is more OP than sniper. At least with sniper, bunny hopping and pressing A and D randomly will make the sniper miss most of the time. Most classes that get close to soldier usually have no chance of survival and the soldier didn't need to aim.
Whenever I'm a bit to intoxicated & start missing my pills I switch to Easy Demoman
Which is Soldier
Just randomly found this through the algorithm and your writing is fuckin top notch holy shit its been a while since I've genuinely laughed at something like this
Poopy joe in the bush, right in Med 1st person view, right when he looks from spawn to check for enemies outside.
(...or at 0:XX)
ask the person at valve that thought that random crits were a good idea
I think the reason people hate Soldier is because of how fairly low his general skill ceiling is he can become a powerhouse that requires little to no skill.
i hate every class because my favourite weapon is the bfb and 3 dmg kills all my speed instantly
Still haven't watched yet, but I think the biggest reason why people hate Soldier is how broken he is once you master him. He becomes faster than Scout, dish out more potential damage than a Demoman via direct and splash, and is the second tankiest class in the game behind Heavy. He's solid at close range, and can be a threat at medium, and even if you manage to kill him, he'll just rollout fresh out of spawn to your face and destroy you and whoever you hold near and dear. He has a diverse variety of weapons and gear for any situation, and can buff his team with banners, or go for risky picks via Market Garden. He usually has a Medigun/Kritzkrieg up his rectum and even if his Medic GF is offline, he can just Concheror + Black Box to be nigh unkillable. Or just Direct Hit and delete you.
I still believe he's one of the best-designed classes in the game though. All of that terror is used by the best of the best, not your average Jane Doe. His skill-ceiling is waaay up, and you may have to spend hundreds/thousands of hours just to be overall "Good" with him. If Heavy wasn't a thing, Soldier would've been the face of TF2.
Only thing I hate about soldier is how little incentive there is not to develop a foot fetish and only aim at the floor.
It's not a fight that feels fair when all they need to do is look down and click in your general direction. Even pyros have to see you to do damage. Soldier and demo are the only classes that don't, but demo at least requires prediction.
10:13 The most complete quote after all is "A jack of all trades and master of none is oftentimes better than the master of one"
Why people hate Heavy: because he, and only HE can do the Pootis, which makes other classes jealous amirite haha
No reason? I hate him cause he has no weaknesses.
Literally any problem Soldier has, he’s capable of overcoming all on his own. And because of that, he’s the most common main in TF2, making him literally the basic pick.
He is extremly easy to play and get kills with. Splash damage does everything for you as long as you aim towards enemy. This is why barely any soldier main uses direct hit. They simply can't aim.
9:13 I can argue that Heavy also good counter to him . as long heavy is not damaged or fight soldier around corners . I find it easy to take on soldier (of course not multiple soldiers)
Heavy can counter everything except sniper. If you know where to position, when to escape, and how to aim, even a scout is not a threat
soldier simply gives too much for too little. once you get mediocre at him, you're automatically more consistently effective than a good player on any other class. the fact that he's technically "balanced" makes this worse. it means what even though everybody hates them, nobody has to do anything about him, and soldier mains can continue sitting back exerting 20% effort with 200% results. he is in practice what pyro is on paper, a class that covers everything and is covered by nothing. there is a reason why there is no "how to fight every class and win" video for soldier, or really all that much instruction material when it comes to how to play him, at least compared to other classes. you just don't need any. can you move your mouse and hit buttons on your keyboard? congratulations, you have what it takes to be a soldier main
you can tell a lot about a person by what tf2 class they main, and when people main solder, it generally means that they don't like to actually try and they like everything handed to them. they can be quote-unquote "tryhards", sure, but being a tryhard soldier doesn't actually take any effort like the name would suggest. you just have to be more aggressive. that's not exactly difficult for a class with the second highest health pool in the game, the highest mobility potential in the game, and some of the most consistent damage output in the game. the only practical difference between a casual soldier and a tryhard soldier is whether they lean backward or forward in their chair when they play the game.
finally, somebody who realizes the issues with soldier and doesn't treat him as the "best" and "most respectable" class. Soldier is my least played class by far with around 40 hours, and I can still wipe the floor with him, even with the direct hit, which is said to be a very "skillful" unlock. Yes, it is more difficult to use than the other launchers, but it's still not too hard. Plus, it does way too much damage.
@@X73308ok so play 6s soldier since it’s so easy
@@HeDronHeDronHedron give him at least 100 hours and he probably could. Depends on the team too. If the enemy team is competent, then just give him a pocket medic or change rocket launcher.
Seriously, from what I’ve seen from soldier players, I don’t leave that out as a possibility. The moment it’s twelves though, it isn’t as easy for even 4 soldiers I imagine.
Or better idea, get someone who actually does have 100 hours of soldier and do that.
@@TeenWithACarrotIDK there are soldiers with way more than 100 hours who haven’t mastered the class but apparently this random 100 hour player can? Ok lmao
I hate them, because there is so much of them. I only have, like, 1 play where there was no soldier. But, in this 2fort play all of our team except 1 sniper were engies.
Im kinda glad someone is talking about this, I always feel like Im the only one that hates any semi competent soldier player
hes not saying he hates soldier hes saying common reasons for soldiers hatred
Still his points are my reasons to hate soldier
@@bibisebi Well all his points only apply if you are bad at the game so. In the famous words of everyone on the internet before you. "Git gud"
Half zatoichi can be a pretty fun combo with the conch.
Charge up your banner with your rockets, pop the banner, empty your clip and go on a tear with your meele with the bonus speed health on hit, health and overheal on kill
I think soldier's main weakness is the fact he has to sacrifice his health in order to gain burst mobility and vice versa. And though the gunboats exist, using them instead of the shotgun creates another serious weakness: you become hard-countered by a competent pyro.
1: small health packs, medium ones, big ones, there everywhere
2:splash damage is a bitc
@@cinemalazare4850 Health packs are not there when you bomb the enemy lol. also splash doesnt do that much damage.
@@fnutek3720 splash does alot of damage what are you talking about? it also has alot of knockback. and you dont have to bomb the enemy. even when you do if your even slightly competent the person you want to die will die.
@@cinemalazare4850 Splash doesnt do alot of damage, im sorry but you are too inexeperienced and obviously lack skill if you think soldier is above any other generalist.
Oh shiii, I didn't even notice that this video was uploaded just an hour ago.
That's probably a new favorite tf2 youtuber for me :))
2:20 literally killed himself... can that be called a suicide...?
The only annoying thing I can think of about the Soldier is that he has a control over your movement at a distance. Pyro needs to come close to airblast you, but Soldier can throw you around with his rockets, making it sometimes even impossible to dodge a second rocket after being hit by the first one.
Always love your videos on these. Just 2 more to go I think.
"soldier is more brainless than pyro change my mind" - someone on uncletopia
because loosing to a soldier whose rockets mess up your aim and movement with their rockets is annoying
5:04
What? That's genuinley all I see the cow mangler being used for
I noticed that new players in tf2 often play heavy, engineer and soldier.
That is, if they have good sense. Otherwise they’re snipers or spy. In which case, they’re so incompetent that they’re pretty much invisible to both teams
You ever just think about something you’ve known about for a long time and realize “wow, that’s crazy”? That’s how I’m feeling about rocket jumping. It’s always been a mechanic but it’s crazy that it’s a thing. And a very PROMINENT thing.
I have never known a person to hate soldiers. He’s just so consistent.
People that like balance hate soldier. The consistency is the problem. He has no fucking downsides.
@@trollking6315 and splash damage
I seriously don't know what can stop soldier with direct hit and somewhat decent aim skill, really.
Especially combine it with some of the banners
@@trollking6315 huh, I had never considered that, but that makes sense
@@trollking6315 Absolutely incorrect, his downsides are that he can't last as long in a fight as other classes. By default, the amount of shots he has available at any one time is almost always smaller than that of a demoman (4 pipes, 8 stickies) and scout (6 Scattergun shots, 12 pistol shots), his movement abilities are also dependent on him expending health (which is a downside compared to scout) and he can't rely on the raw damage output over a short period of time that Demoman can, or to a lesser degree heavy.
This is the whole point of the master of none concept, he's always reliable and never useless in any situation, but similarly he rarely has an intrinsic advantage over other classes and can't dominate the game without the skill to pay the bill.
5:57 “I love the smell of a kicked ass in the morning”. Soldier, 1968
As a Heavy main... Its more you hate everything rather than everyone hates you... most of the reasons why people hate heavy is because they have no excuse to die to one. There really is no reason to hate an enemy heavy because of how weak he already is... Which means if you die to one you most likely hate yourself more than the heavy because you know he earned it. But that wont stop you from taking your anger out on the heavy doing his job anyway.
(By the way its been a while my friend thanks for the advice on my channel :D)
That's almost true, except when the heavy has a pocket medic or the team stacks heavies. Stacked heavies are basically unbeatable in defense and unstoppable when pushing the cart.
nah give the heavy amedic and that sucker is gonna fuck shit up in this bitch
@@society1876 sure but the the discussion is more about medic than it is heavy at that point... We are talking about a lone Heavy... You give a medic pocket to anyone and they'll Excel... Even spy in some cases...
@@ekyanso4253 again the discussion is about heavy not whether or not he has a pocket.. in these video discussions they are for the class themselves not whether or not they are good with a medic... Heavy is his own class... So is medic... Pairing a medic with a heavy will of course make them stronger just like pairing a medic with any class will do so as well. But that isn't the point.
@@THE-CRIMSON-CAPTAIN spy? look man i love meme strats, god i love them, but half the time you cant even hesl the spy cuz hes cloaked, ubering the spy now THAT is good
Scout is hated because of mobility
Sniper is hated because of range
Demoman is hated because of spam
And them we have soldier, that does all 3 things without a meaningful downside.
"soldier has the potential for the highest mobility in the game"
"soldier's damage output is unchallenged within tf2"
Having played 750 hours of demo racked up over two and a half years, I severely disagree.
Demo's mobility for the average player is good horizontally but the skill required for vertical jumps or extended jumps is typically outta the grasp unless you fully commit to it.
Even then I would argue that Soldier would still triumphant it as all you really need is any surface and its a lot easier to pick up on.
@@SpaceGuyOnline "soldier has the highest ((POTENTIAL))" is untrue.
Demo still has way higher damage output than soldier, no matter the context.
@@fnutek3720 Unless the context is a good scout main against a demo that only knows how to sticky spam
@@FletcherCat thats a different variable though. good vs bad is now how you should judge balance of classes. Same skill level. every context, demo is better than soldier.
i swear, any moment that my friend that was new to tf2 was like dang i suck at this game, i would tell them no you don’t just play soldier and they fell in love with the game
Because fighting against the twentieth soldier main that day, is annoying.
Because them only needing to aim at your feet is annoying.
Because them jumping like a rabbit during combat is annoying.
Because them jumping away when they start losing a fight is annoying.
Because they have the black box, conch, and battalions backup. Few classes get weapons that increase their health, provides passive healing, or gives healing on hit, no one gets the trifecta.
Because the other classes need some love, while soldier has the most varied play-style in the game.
Because soldier has massive damage and mobility, while most other classes only get one or the other.
Because the class attracts the most try-hards.
That's all I have, probably forgetting something.
Edit: forgot some weapons in my haste.
slight mistake there, the gunslinger increases engineer's health, as does Heavy's dalokohs bar (for a short period). Sniper's Cozy Camper provides passive healing, and medic has it as a passive by default. The Blutsauger also provides medic with health on hit with the trade off of his passive regen being far weaker/negligent.
Airblast
@@adamjsher04 Fair points, I made my comment hastily. But only one class gets everything.
I agree
Holy shit the number of times I get killed by floor splash and thought to myself 'If spy had an aoe revolver, he'd have a taste of his own medicine'
the one thing that never fails to put hatred in my soul is a soldier with a pocket medic
0:04 poopy Joe is hiding in a bush
Class spy Loadout big topper dressperado tomb readers all painted white (p.s love your content)
9:28 That's actually not a great argument that someone would make, considering that rocket jumping was a bug for a different game (Quake). Rocket jumping was intended from the beginning for TF2 specifically, it's even in the trailer.
Any rocket jumping Soldier will never have full 200 HP unless they're using the Rocket Jumper. Just something few people ever mention.
I mean when they have great map knowledge and are competent with movement and aim, they can be at 200 health or 2 after landing, they're still getting the jump on you and blasting you into orbit
I hate people forget this fact when talking about solider “hard” countering sniper, while that’s true to an extant a soldier more often than not will not arrive to a sniper with full hp or heck even enough hp to survive a quick scope to CHIP damage combo or just the quick scope and please don’t even TRY to tell me “just dodge his god like aim, he is human after all and will EVENTUALLY mess up” as soldier’s non rocket jump mobility is non existent even if he bunny hops, in fact (contrary to popular belief and instincts) bunny hoping may be the WORST thing you can do to *TRY* to mess up a average sniper main’s aim (not a bad ones aim an AVERAGE ones as I have noticed a worrying trend of the bad snipers no becoming less and less common as the days go by and the {not hackers and/or botter} oppressively good ones becoming AS COMON IF NOT MORE COMMON THAN the average ones and it’s almost like the source of the new/bad snipers has dried up and the reason for good snipers being rare has not been keeping the good snipers rare recently) as your movement, get this, becomes MORE predictable due to the fixed air direction jumping puts on you also rocket jumping to dodge isn’t as strong as you think because 1. Sniper nowadays know how to hit a airborne solider 2. Rocket jumping deals sigifant self damage 3. Every time you rocket jumped you didn’t shoot at the sniper, buying him the time he may need for a teammate to respawn or for him to run away to his spawn, of course none of this matters if you just so happened to have not been seen by the sniper or his ELEVEN OTHER TEAMMATES YOU HAVE TO GET PAST FIRST but then again this is a situational weakness that sniper has that ANY class can take advantage of, tl:dr: sniper isn’t a weak or vulnerable as the sniper ma- I mean apologists make him out to be even against this powerful jack of all trades and his absolute BS rocket juggling and also skill may not be as strong of an argument for sniper staying the way he is as it was back then, thus he DOES need a nerf, even if it only comes to his melee lag hitbox abusing jarate bushwaka combo that takes ZERO SKILL I WILL DIE ON THAT HILL YOU EDGEY PUBSTOMPING WITH NO REAL RISK TO SELF PEICES OF- (p.s. fall damage exists too so a sniper will rarely have to fight a more than 150 hp solider even if that solider has the gunboats or battalion’s backup equipped)
@@GoodlyData86596 When the only counterplay is relying on the Sniper to mess up, there's a problem. Same principle applies in any video game, just swap Sniper for any other character who's way too dominant.
Even if Soldier is such an annoying class, we wont forget him for Rick May's dedication. (VA of Soldier, died in 2020. Reason: COVID-19.)
i hate the gunboats mostly for the fact that it negates the whole downside of taking self damage for mobility, while most players will disagree with me I don't like dealing with gunboats soldiers
"oh but he loses a secondary option when using these" that don't matter to soldier, 4 explosive rockets can kill basically anything, plus crockets are B.S (pun intended)
try fighting a pyro with them lol
most pyros these days do actually know how to airblast
@@nousername4416 i know i'm one of them and I resist the urge to laugh taunt at their dead corpses everytime, its a struggle
@@nousername4416 a pyro... what about the other 7 classes?
@@jairomelgarejoreyes1609 What about them? Pyro is a gunboats soldier's main counter, and they're not hard to find either as basically every server has a pyro. Do you think every single class should counter it?
by equipping the gunboats good scouts and pyros can kick your shit in + you lose the incredibly powerful supportive utility of the banners, its a balanced unlock.
I’m a soldier main, so I’m gonna argue against the statement “Soldier Shouldn’t be able to Rocket Jump.” It was a bug in Quake and TFC, and Valve made it a feature in TF2
I know, that's why that stupid statement is also argued in the video as well
Poopy joe in the bush waaay at the start! Gotcha!
dang
Hey buddy you picked the wrong door, the Soldier club is two blocks down.
I hate soldier because it is so easy to deal insane and stupid damage
I love it when I join the game there’s 7 soldiers in my team and 7 in theirs, at least it’s better than 12 snipers.
Because he's easy af to master lol. People out there actually believing rocket jumping takes 100+ hours to learn, but in reality it takes like 2 hours to understand it properly. High as shit damage from literally any of his rocket launchers (except the one) which makes all of them a good choice in any situation. He's slow but has literally 3 items that makes him run faster so its negated heavily. He has literally no downsides. Wanna deal high damage? Rocket launcher. Airblasting Pyros and sticky demos? Shotgun. A crazy ass Scout trying to hit you with a fish? *Whip crit sound*
I think people sleep a little too much on the shotgun. I think the shotgun is by far a much more meta pick than the gunboats if youre very confident in your shotgun aim.
Just a couple of things you might not know:
1. The rocket launcher takes 0.8s to fire the next rocket, while switching to your shotgun takes 0.5s, so its faster to shoot a rocket and fire a shotgun shot than firing off 2 rockets. If youre 1v1ing another soldier, and you both have hit 2 rockets on each other, immediately switching to your shotgun and hitting a single shot, even a grazing one, would likely kill the soldier considering 2 rockets would put both of you in red health range.
2. The shotgun actually shoots faster than the rocket launcher (0.625s vs 0.8s) . So you can shoot 2 shotgun shots in the time it takes for an enemy to fire one rocket. You can also fire 1 rocket and 2 shotgun shots before the enemy soldier can fire 3 rockets, and usually in a soldier confrontation, 3 rockets are needed to kill an enemy soldier, while 1 rocket and 2 shotgun shots will kill a soldier if aimed decently well. (I usually prefer to just shoot 2 rockets and switch to shotgun though)
3. The shotgun has a higher dps than the rocket launcher (assuming max dps). Both have damage fall off due to spread or the way explosion damage works, but the point is that youre not exactly losing out on damage if youre using the shotgun vs a rocket launcher.
4. The shotgun does no self damage. This sometimes plays a role, esp when fighting within a pyro's flamethrower range or in really close quarters with another class. A point blank rocket shot can do a max of 46 self damage. If you use a shotgun, you would not only do a max of 88 damage, but you might save yourself up to 46 self damage, and you can punish an enemy soldier/sticky demo for using rockets at close range.
5. Also worth noting it takes 0.92s to reload your first rocket. If youre gonna be bombing a group of enemies, youre likely not going to finish all of them off by the time your rocket launcher is empty. It takes 0.5s to switch to your shotgun.
Gunboats basically makes rocket jumping really cheap, but considering a rocket jump would do roughly 40 dmg, if youre only considering bombing, youre really just asking is a shotgun worth taking roughly 30 extra damage than if i had the gunboats?
Gunboats are more for putting out fires (figuratively ofc), spamming in places that need the pressure and looking for vulerable fish to fry. The shotgun is more for those who have a good/pocket medic or the have to clear out a heavily occupied position.
Just gonna say. The bison and jumper they uh... yeah they exist. Though soldier isn't a main class of mine, I'd agree with the whole "jack of all trades and master of none" trope he has. I'd also argue that the soldier isn't a threat if he can't rocket jump, but that'd be stating the obvious
9:30 ye originally a bug in quake in 1996, so clearly not a bug if they had 11 years to find a way to have it removed and didn't.
"the soldier was clearly designed to be the most balanced and well-rounded class in the game"
>proceeds to list all the reasons soldier is poorly designed and OP
4 Reasons why Soldier is hated by the community gamers.
1. He only gets beaten when he's playing at his enemies ideal. (You don't expect to beat a soldier in TF2 unless your class is meant to be winning in that regard anyways. Scout / Spy - you ambush him when he's not focused on you; Pyro - Caught him mid jump so he either has to try and fake pump a reflect out of you or switch to a shotgun if he has one and try not to die to the flamethrower. Demo; IF he gets anywhere mid range to close range, he will always trade with you and ground splash rather than try directs which you need. If you try to sticky spam, he'll surf it with his higher hp pool and leave or just kill you outright before you can detonate. Heavy- he'll run away if you're chipping him from afar and not bother or else he lands to close and you mow him down with the point blank 200+dps you're able to dish out. Engi - if he sees your building, you're not factor since he can corner splash. Sniper - Outside of long range body shots, a jumping soldier is going to either run or get in your face. Medic - he eats you for breakfast lunch and dinner.
2. The achievement says it best "Crockets are BS" Chipping down a 200hp target is hard enough as is in any stock case. Positioning, set up, trading... all are a factor. Meanwhile, Numbnutz just has to point at your feet and do 270 damage. Making any 1v1 a case of, do I feel lucky.
3. How most Soldiers act. It's a game that's been out for 15 years now... we all know the stigma. Soldiers that bomb in on light classes or clean up kills and just shoot the ground rather than try and be precise. Taunt/bind/BM. Nothing says toxic/sweaty try hard about a class with the highest mobility in the game running you down and killing you with the most brain dead tactic and acting like it was PotG moment that defined the match.
4. For a class that is supposed to represent being balanced, he is FAR from balanced, as they gave him the very best unlocks in the entire game. Sure he's 'Balanced' in stock but outside of that, there's NOTHING that soldier can't deal with reasonably, or outclass in some way.
Scout - Mobility / Rocket jumping
Pyro - Utility / Banners & Whip
Demo - Spam / Beggars
Heavy - DPS & HP / AOE and all the minigun's unlocks all provide side quirks that all are worse than stock aside from the Tomislav
Engi - Building / THE DIRECT HIT
Sniper - Long range harass / THE COW MANGLER AND DIRECT HIT
MEDIC - Healing / The no medic gf load out (black box / conch / escape plan)
Spy - Worst class in the game and has to specifically do trades / AOE and Crits can effectively shut down any hold.
TL;DR soldier is hated because they did nothing but give him everything he didn't need to be balanced but everything they could have to make a discount version of every other class with a skill ceiling that does their job better outside of the medic and engi.
If they had it where soldier does more self damage from the rocket jumps and/or reduce the damage from ground splash. Maybe make it so random crits don't do crit damage on ground splash. Slow down the firing speed on all rockets outside of the beggars and liberty launcher. Then yes, he'd be balanced. But as it stands, the Heavy is the Face on TF2 but everyone knows the Soldier - with the skill floor so low you can see it under some of the maps, and so high you'd need jump map training to reach it; and with some weapons that are made to be overpowered. On a class that has no downside that isn't handled in its own kit - is indeed the Poster Boy of what everyone wants to be at least once. That raging try hard with a kritzkrieg medic getting a god like in a pub game.
And they say Spy mains have the biggest egos. At least they do well on the worst class of the game without any jank to cover them like having the weapon with the largest melee range (Whip) in a class that has 3 weapons they would use point blank anyhow (Stock/Direct Miss/Gardner)!
What i like about soldier is that he class that represents versatility, he definitely consider to be easy to learn but difficult to master.
Doesn’t everyone hate every class?
Scout - hate for scatter gun double taps
Soldier - hate for rocket bombing
Pyro - wow do people hate pyro
Engine - hate for cheeky sentry placements
Heavy - well, nobody can really hate the heavy.
Demo - hate for sticky bombs
Medic - hate for Uber charges and the vaccinator.
Spy - hate for trick stabs and dead ringer
Sniper - let me play the damn game!
As probably the only heavy main here people hate natacha and a flank heavy playstyle
@@justasimplemanworkinghiswa1569 Natasha I understand. I got tilted on Hightower by some demo knights in a 1 v 2 at three am and went Natasha rage heavy. I sat on the cart and gunned them all down while riding the cart up the elevator sweaty tryhard style. One even switched to bombing soldier and I was still merciless. I won the round and ragequit out of spite.
I felt dirty but vindicated.
As for flank ambush Heavy I have nothing but respect. Between scouts spies and soldiers the flank is the hardest place for a heavy to advance. If you make progress as Heavy on the flank then you earned your kills.
Pyro and Soldier are what I call the "Brain dead classes". You don't have to be good at either to play well with them. I fucking suck at soldier but do pretty damn well with him.
Splash damage is just....ugh...
Yeah its so fucking annoying dying to a rocket that was 4 fucking meters away from you