I love your videos. Great information. In the real world for so many of us techs out there it is so hard to convince our own fellow co workers and insurance companies to listen to this information it’s a real shame insurance companies have so much hold on Body shops all over United States
Skill and responsible work is the key. New 1/4 panels installed improperly vs proper used installation? It's not the part it's the skill of the technicians!!
OEMs have to make money so of course they're not going to advocate the use of second hand parts from a salvage vehicle. If OEMs had their way, junkyards would be forced to crush every vehicle and not keep an inventory of good used parts that cost much less than new stealership equivalents.
It's not about the position statement. Even if a OE did not have a statement on used quarer panels, the shop should be Technical enough to know why the part can't be used. Follow the science and operation and the question answers itself.
1hr is that after removing the interior, doors, glass, trim, lights, wires,wheel, protective covers removing all sealers and still not ready to grind 1 of the 70 welds ya she works for the insurance company
has any 1 out there actually done a whole rear clip with out dog tracking. those are my favorite.1/2 of another car. just follow what the oem manufacture done. get your drill out and cutters out. what i see now this frame rack jig system is great .hard to make a mistake.
Most welds are cut with a belt sander Drilling is very rarely done It's hard to take someone seriously when they have never actually done what it is there trying to teach
Actually no they're not. But even with a belt sander you still damage the donor panel and it makes it no useable so how you remove the spot weld is irrelevant to you removed it. All 3 do and have done Collision. Larry has two shops and works daily. You are welcome to visit or you can list your shop information. When were in your area we'll be happy to stop by and work along side you.
@@Collisionhub I appreciate your time and responce I have been a collision tech for 35 years so i understand your points of veiw and i believe people like you arr great for the industry and i appreciate the work you do But it seems that the trade goes in circles the OE's Don't design repairability into the car the insurance companies Don't want to pay shops Shop's don't want to pay techs The whole trade is still tragically flawed Most of the repair procedures are based strictly on liabilty I would love to see A used Quarter repair done to the best of Larry's shop ability seeing how top flight standards are strictly follwed Versus a new quarter replacement on the same vechicle to see the real world difference in a crash Is it as bad as we think or is it better we really don't know We both know thousands of used quarters have been done and you don't hear about many lawsuits Were i live in Pinellas county Florida the shop rate is 46 Its the same for frame time If you want to be an employed collision tech in florida you have no choice but to use what they give ya I enjoy all your videos keep up the good work
@@matthewoneill3229 I appreciate your position. I know it's tough. But a few points. We do have catastrophic damage that happens frequently. We have a handful of cases a year, but they all settle. A case that can be public, like John Eagle, is rare. The reason that went to trial is the shop thought there was no way they could be liable and yet the jury gave $42 million. I've been at this since the 80's and I can tell you that we have never had a time where the OEs have been more concerned about repairability. We are just now in an industry where technology and function are colliding. We should have been on point in 2000 but we (shops) were asleep at the wheel. Coasting on fat DRP agreements and we got stupid. Still looking at cars like it's 1997. You will see more shop liability lawsuits. I tell every owner. You got to fix a lot of cars to make $100,000 in profit. But It only takes one $100,000 judgement to bankrupt you.
@@Collisionhub I understand what you are saying and I get that I just feel that the industry as a whole doesn't really care as much as they say they do Lets face it all the Oe info must be purchased. All training is super expensive everybody wants to make there dime If the manufacturer wants specific hole sizes and locations and backing material theninclude them in the repair panel make an proper repair as easy as possible Include detailed instructions with part The problem i see is we as an industry went from the far left to the far right If the big eagle case went the other way Would a dam thing have changed It seems to me that a bunch of Seen an opportunity to make a bunch of money off of the fear of that lawsuit
So when I request a new panel but geico writes for used and my shop manager and estimator dont have my back and just want me to do whatever geico wants to make them happy what do I do? Yea I could go find another shop to work at but what happens when I work for a major MSO like caliber who have come into my town in northern California and literally bought every single semi reputable shop? What then? Even upper management will say just get it done. Most people I've come across in this industry just dont care. We dont get paid shit and the insurance companies want everything cheaper so its created this fuck it attitude that leads to techs doing whatever they can't to try and make money which includes not coloring inside the lines.
And this is what continues to let the customer down. First, is ask the estimator if they explained the issues to the vehicle owner and did they approve. Then if give that customer information to a 3rd party PRI company and let them step in. The MSOs will learn to follow the rules or they'll keep buying cars back.
What I have realized is alot of customers are ignorant to the process and really have no clue what goes in to the actual repair. Most of the time the customer doesnt care, they just want to know when they will have thier vehicle back. I dont believe a third party company will influence the MSO or a major insurance company in any way shape or form especially when there are contracts between the two. Honestly I dont think the big MSO's really care about buying a car every once in a while, I've watched them do it. To them just a cost of doing business. I agree with alot of thing on this channel and it irks me to no end to see people in the industry around me just roll over and just do what the insurance says. I feel the entire industry needs a major overhaul when it comes to techs, how cars are repaired, and how everyone is trained. Unfortunately I dont see any of those things getting better until enough of us across the country unite and set some boundaries for the MSO's and the insurance companies.
Your writer can say he does not accept used quarter panels like I have been doing since 2003. I work with all insurance companies and not DRP. Leave the car in blue printing stage and your writer needs to get the owner in his office and call the Department of Insurance and report the adjustor. I get a new panel everytime. I hope this helps 🙏 . On the contrary, you can pull way more hours on taking an old panel off a salvage if you have a great writer, but the insurance will fight all the way, so might as well fight for the new quarter panel. Your writer is negotiating either if he takes the red pill or blue pill lol.
Someone hit my child care van used to transport children to and from school Mon-Fri. My shop refuses to do the repair with a used quarter panel. They are forcing me to to use a different shop to use a used quarter panel. I dont feel this is safe. What should I do?
Well you can't do anything "like the factory". But the manufacturer of the vehicle test and writes a procedure for replacing a quarter panel. As long as the shop is completely following those procedures, that is the best repair for the vehicle.
Would you like to have the roof panel replaced also because it's welded over top of the aperture or side panel. More than likely rendering the car a total loss and getting under valued, you ripped off no rental and buying a new car at your loss. Intruding into undamaged factory assembly's requiring damaging overlapping panels and sealers trim, glass , interiors safety equipment, wiring, paint, ect.
I do rebuild rebuilable vehicles. Just because they claim its rebuildable doesn't mean you should rebuild it. Some would cost more to repair than whay you could sale it for. A reconstructed title cuts the value of at less 40 percent.
20+ year body tech. Used quarter panels should not be allowed in the collision repair process. Everyone loses when a used panel is used. The shop loses money. It's reputation is possibly damaged. The customer loses out in overall vehicle strength, crash worthiness, and panel lifetime compared to an original panel.
been body shopping since 11 yrs old i am 60 now.i know the last 20 yrs all i ever used was used parts. james you are right the shop loses big.who ever said lkq its sucks inferior parts at a high price.only if folks out there read there insurance policy read the fine print. insurance co's have the exclusive right to chose the parts to fix your car.any thing insurance co's can do to save a dime off your back.i am a builder salvage titles.as time goes it gets more difficult to build cars. dam glued on and welded on parts.i am thinking of retirement. structural parts hard to use.
It’s super easy, say no to used parts. We will occasionally get a used door, maybe a couple times a year. That’s it, don’t do it. If you’re good enough, you can get the insurance company to pay more to put the used one on, then just buy a new one. I know this is pre Corona, but it’s even easier to get what you want now that nobody comes out.
So what you’re saying is to be dishonest about it? Do you do that to your customers in customer pay jobs, as well? What is the name and location of your shop? 😁
@@thewhiteelephant The money paid by the insurance company belongs to the car owner, they can do whatever they want with it. If the owner wants to use it to buy a boat, he can. If he wants it to buy a new door instead of a junk one, he can. We include the client in all interactions with the insurance company. We discuss with the client what we think is the best way to proceed with the repair of their vehicle. Sometimes they end up paying for part of the repair out of pocket (if the insurance company refuses to pay for what’s needed to make a acceptable repair). Sometimes we brush touch and polish no charge and they pocket the money. We work for the vehicle owners not the insurance companies.
@@Everythingisgoingtobealright That’s an interesting way to describe fraud. Do these back door deals include vehicle owners who have lien holders on their vehicles? Because if they do, you’re stealing from the lien holder. Obviously the owner can do whatever they want if they have clear title, but things are different if they don’t. “If you’re good enough” and “it’s even easier to get what YOU want now that nobody comes out” means “if you’re dishonest enough and don’t care about ethics.” Listen to yourself. You’re bragging about taking advantage of a situation for your own gain.
@@thewhiteelephant The lien issue is not something we see very often, not really our problem. I’m not sure you understand how this works. In a typical body shop the insurance companies come in and dictate how the vehicle will be repaired, this means as cheap as possible. They will ask the shop to use junk parts or aftermarket parts, these parts are inferior to new OEM parts. Most shops are okay with this because they live in fear of the insurance companies. A quality shop will demand OEM parts and follow manufacturer repair procedures, resulting in a far better repair. This high quality repair is far more expensive than the low quality repair. The insurance companies do not want to pay for this and a great deal of time is spent convincing the insurance companies to pay. By the time the insurance company agrees to pay, we have proven to them that each line item on the estimate is necessary to complete the repair to the highest possible quality. Now that the insurance company has agreed that everything we asked for is actually damaged, we can have a conversation with the client on how to proceed. In the vast majority of cases the vehicle is repaired as per the estimate. Sometimes the vehicle owner receives the check from the insurance company and finds another shop to fix the car for a fraction of our price, no problem, they pay us an administrative fee and storage charges and everyone is happy. I could go on and on, hopefully you get the point. No matter what happens the vehicle owner is given paperwork that describes exactly what repairs were done.
Used quarters suck and a waste of time, notwithstanding the ethics, but the wheelhouse can be lapped on a flanged used quarter. I'm not saying it is proper. And the safety is questionable. Besides, quarters rust. I've seen more rusty used ones than clean ones.
I love your videos. Great information. In the real world for so many of us techs out there it is so hard to convince our own fellow co workers and insurance companies to listen to this information it’s a real shame insurance companies have so much hold on Body shops all over United States
Skill and responsible work is the key. New 1/4 panels installed improperly vs proper used installation? It's not the part it's the skill of the technicians!!
OEMs have to make money so of course they're not going to advocate the use of second hand parts from a salvage vehicle. If OEMs had their way, junkyards would be forced to crush every vehicle and not keep an inventory of good used parts that cost much less than new stealership equivalents.
It's not about the position statement. Even if a OE did not have a statement on used quarer panels, the shop should be Technical enough to know why the part can't be used.
Follow the science and operation and the question answers itself.
Tell this to the insurance companies... LOL.
Fucking hack adjusters
1hr is that after removing the interior, doors, glass, trim, lights, wires,wheel, protective covers removing all sealers and still not ready to grind 1 of the 70 welds ya she works for the insurance company
I work for a major shop here in Chicago.. And All state always wants to use lkq quarter panels.. I told them to piss off.. They don't like me lol
Have any of you personally ever actually done collision repair ?
Also wondering if any of the OE's actually crash tested any of these procedures
Yes and yes go to RUclips you'll find some OEs share test videos of repairs and alternative parts outside the US where liability laws are different.
All you guys do is talk do some work show us work that’s why you guys don’t have any views jeez!!!!
Negative
has any 1 out there actually done a whole rear clip with out dog tracking. those are my favorite.1/2 of another car. just follow what the oem manufacture done. get your drill out and cutters out. what i see now this frame rack jig system is great .hard to make a mistake.
Most welds are cut with a belt sander
Drilling is very rarely done
It's hard to take someone seriously when they have never actually done what it is there trying to teach
Actually no they're not. But even with a belt sander you still damage the donor panel and it makes it no useable so how you remove the spot weld is irrelevant to you removed it. All 3 do and have done Collision. Larry has two shops and works daily. You are welcome to visit or you can list your shop information. When were in your area we'll be happy to stop by and work along side you.
@@Collisionhub I appreciate your time and responce
I have been a collision tech for 35 years so i understand your points of veiw and i believe people like you arr great for the industry and i appreciate the work you do
But it seems that the trade goes in circles the OE's Don't design repairability into the car the insurance companies Don't want to pay shops
Shop's don't want to pay techs
The whole trade is still tragically flawed
Most of the repair procedures are based strictly on liabilty
I would love to see A used Quarter repair done to the best of Larry's shop ability seeing how top flight standards are strictly follwed
Versus a new quarter replacement on the same vechicle to see the real world difference in a crash
Is it as bad as we think or is it better we really don't know
We both know thousands of used quarters have been done and you don't hear about many lawsuits
Were i live in Pinellas county Florida the shop rate is 46
Its the same for frame time
If you want to be an employed collision tech in florida you have no choice but to use what they give ya
I enjoy all your videos keep up the good work
@@matthewoneill3229 I appreciate your position. I know it's tough.
But a few points.
We do have catastrophic damage that happens frequently. We have a handful of cases a year, but they all settle. A case that can be public, like John Eagle, is rare. The reason that went to trial is the shop thought there was no way they could be liable and yet the jury gave $42 million.
I've been at this since the 80's and I can tell you that we have never had a time where the OEs have been more concerned about repairability. We are just now in an industry where technology and function are colliding. We should have been on point in 2000 but we (shops) were asleep at the wheel. Coasting on fat DRP agreements and we got stupid. Still looking at cars like it's 1997.
You will see more shop liability lawsuits. I tell every owner. You got to fix a lot of cars to make $100,000 in profit. But It only takes one $100,000 judgement to bankrupt you.
@@Collisionhub I understand what you are saying and I get that
I just feel that the industry as a whole doesn't really care as much as they say they do
Lets face it all the Oe info must be purchased. All training is super expensive everybody wants to make there dime
If the manufacturer wants specific hole sizes and locations and backing material theninclude them in the repair panel make an proper repair as easy as possible
Include detailed instructions with part
The problem i see is we as an industry went from the far left to the far right
If the big eagle case went the other way
Would a dam thing have changed
It seems to me that a bunch of
Seen an opportunity to make a bunch of money off of the fear of that lawsuit
Removing the used 1/4requirs drilling the welds on the doner panel
So when I request a new panel but geico writes for used and my shop manager and estimator dont have my back and just want me to do whatever geico wants to make them happy what do I do? Yea I could go find another shop to work at but what happens when I work for a major MSO like caliber who have come into my town in northern California and literally bought every single semi reputable shop? What then? Even upper management will say just get it done. Most people I've come across in this industry just dont care. We dont get paid shit and the insurance companies want everything cheaper so its created this fuck it attitude that leads to techs doing whatever they can't to try and make money which includes not coloring inside the lines.
And this is what continues to let the customer down. First, is ask the estimator if they explained the issues to the vehicle owner and did they approve. Then if give that customer information to a 3rd party PRI company and let them step in. The MSOs will learn to follow the rules or they'll keep buying cars back.
What I have realized is alot of customers are ignorant to the process and really have no clue what goes in to the actual repair. Most of the time the customer doesnt care, they just want to know when they will have thier vehicle back. I dont believe a third party company will influence the MSO or a major insurance company in any way shape or form especially when there are contracts between the two. Honestly I dont think the big MSO's really care about buying a car every once in a while, I've watched them do it. To them just a cost of doing business. I agree with alot of thing on this channel and it irks me to no end to see people in the industry around me just roll over and just do what the insurance says. I feel the entire industry needs a major overhaul when it comes to techs, how cars are repaired, and how everyone is trained. Unfortunately I dont see any of those things getting better until enough of us across the country unite and set some boundaries for the MSO's and the insurance companies.
Your writer can say he does not accept used quarter panels like I have been doing since 2003. I work with all insurance companies and not DRP. Leave the car in blue printing stage and your writer needs to get the owner in his office and call the Department of Insurance and report the adjustor. I get a new panel everytime. I hope this helps 🙏 . On the contrary, you can pull way more hours on taking an old panel off a salvage if you have a great writer, but the insurance will fight all the way, so might as well fight for the new quarter panel. Your writer is negotiating either if he takes the red pill or blue pill lol.
To many super duper difficult wards !!! Get job done and put it on youtube!!!
Let’s play a game... How many Tape Thing’s can you spot in this video?
Not only loss of no pay labor it's lost time for paying labor
Someone hit my child care van used to transport children to and from school Mon-Fri. My shop refuses to do the repair with a used quarter panel. They are forcing me to to use a different shop to use a used quarter panel. I dont feel this is safe. What should I do?
By law you can take the car to any body shop your comfortable with.
why would the shop section the quarter panel on my challenger intead of replacing the entire side panel like the factory.
Well you can't do anything "like the factory".
But the manufacturer of the vehicle test and writes a procedure for replacing a quarter panel. As long as the shop is completely following those procedures, that is the best repair for the vehicle.
bed redefining
@@Collisionhub ēhdyyyyyhdggggggyyyy
Would you like to have the roof panel replaced also because it's welded over top of the aperture or side panel. More than likely rendering the car a total loss and getting under valued, you ripped off no rental and buying a new car at your loss. Intruding into undamaged factory assembly's requiring damaging overlapping panels and sealers trim, glass , interiors safety equipment, wiring, paint, ect.
Why not do some video's of actual repairs being done to help validate your point
We cut that Honda apart... With Honda to show why it can't be done.
In the LIVE shop seminars you can join in and watch the process.
In the real world an insurance company would Salvage the car if it needs the guater panel replaced.
Well that's great, then you can buy it and rebuild it.
LOL,you are so funny Larry. Even I wouldn't buy it to rebuilt it. Only someone who would want it for parts would buy it.
Sorry I was under the impression that you do rebuildable vehicles.
I do rebuild rebuilable vehicles. Just because they claim its rebuildable doesn't mean you should rebuild it. Some would cost more to repair than whay you could sale it for. A reconstructed title cuts the value of at less 40 percent.
I replace them all the time. You can’t salvage a car just because it needs a quarter
20+ year body tech. Used quarter panels should not be allowed in the collision repair process. Everyone loses when a used panel is used. The shop loses money. It's reputation is possibly damaged. The customer loses out in overall vehicle strength, crash worthiness, and panel lifetime compared to an original panel.
been body shopping since 11 yrs old i am 60 now.i know the last 20 yrs all i ever used was used parts. james you are right the shop loses big.who ever said lkq its sucks inferior parts at a high price.only if folks out there read there insurance policy read the fine print. insurance co's have the exclusive right to chose the parts to fix your car.any thing insurance co's can do to save a dime off your back.i am a builder salvage titles.as time goes it gets more difficult to build cars. dam glued on and welded on parts.i am thinking of retirement. structural parts hard to use.
It’s super easy, say no to used parts. We will occasionally get a used door, maybe a couple times a year. That’s it, don’t do it. If you’re good enough, you can get the insurance company to pay more to put the used one on, then just buy a new one. I know this is pre Corona, but it’s even easier to get what you want now that nobody comes out.
So what you’re saying is to be dishonest about it? Do you do that to your customers in customer pay jobs, as well? What is the name and location of your shop? 😁
@@thewhiteelephant
The money paid by the insurance company belongs to the car owner, they can do whatever they want with it. If the owner wants to use it to buy a boat, he can. If he wants it to buy a new door instead of a junk one, he can. We include the client in all interactions with the insurance company. We discuss with the client what we think is the best way to proceed with the repair of their vehicle. Sometimes they end up paying for part of the repair out of pocket (if the insurance company refuses to pay for what’s needed to make a acceptable repair). Sometimes we brush touch and polish no charge and they pocket the money. We work for the vehicle owners not the insurance companies.
@@Everythingisgoingtobealright That’s an interesting way to describe fraud. Do these back door deals include vehicle owners who have lien holders on their vehicles? Because if they do, you’re stealing from the lien holder. Obviously the owner can do whatever they want if they have clear title, but things are different if they don’t. “If you’re good enough” and “it’s even easier to get what YOU want now that nobody comes out” means “if you’re dishonest enough and don’t care about ethics.” Listen to yourself. You’re bragging about taking advantage of a situation for your own gain.
@@thewhiteelephant
The lien issue is not something we see very often, not really our problem.
I’m not sure you understand how this works. In a typical body shop the insurance companies come in and dictate how the vehicle will be repaired, this means as cheap as possible. They will ask the shop to use junk parts or aftermarket parts, these parts are inferior to new OEM parts. Most shops are okay with this because they live in fear of the insurance companies. A quality shop will demand OEM parts and follow manufacturer repair procedures, resulting in a far better repair.
This high quality repair is far more expensive than the low quality repair. The insurance companies do not want to pay for this and a great deal of time is spent convincing the insurance companies to pay. By the time the insurance company agrees to pay, we have proven to them that each line item on the estimate is necessary to complete the repair to the highest possible quality. Now that the insurance company has agreed that everything we asked for is actually damaged, we can have a conversation with the client on how to proceed. In the vast majority of cases the vehicle is repaired as per the estimate.
Sometimes the vehicle owner receives the check from the insurance company and finds another shop to fix the car for a fraction of our price, no problem, they pay us an administrative fee and storage charges and everyone is happy.
I could go on and on, hopefully you get the point. No matter what happens the vehicle owner is given paperwork that describes exactly what repairs were done.
What does OEMs mean?
The manufacturer of the vehicle (Ford, GM, Toyota, etc...)
i wish i can be like juan he brave hes my champion
Used quarters suck and a waste of time, notwithstanding the ethics, but the wheelhouse can be lapped on a flanged used quarter. I'm not saying it is proper. And the safety is questionable. Besides, quarters rust. I've seen more rusty used ones than clean ones.
Fuds man