In the original Odyssey Odysseus does sleep with Circe but its not by choice, both she and hermes tell him that he HAS to otherwise she'll kill his men. Odysseus even tells Penelope what happened when he returns to Ithaca and tells her "in my heart, I did not consent". There are iterations where he cheats willingly, but they came long after the original novel. Coercion based on fear and power imbalance is not consent, hes quite literally a victim.
One thing I enjoy about this song and animatic is that I can see Circe testing him. She's stated she's had bad experiences before. This is practically an invitation to take advantage and she states it as such "everyone's true colors are revealed..." The instant Ody stops it and refocuses on his wife, and stops the "I can outwit my way through this", the aggression stops too. And when he's honest and open and just asks...that's what pushes her judgement call on his sincerity and she becomes all business.
In regard to Hamilton, there is some truth to the potential interest between Alexander and Angelica. The letter she mentions with "My dearest, Angelica" is a reference to an exchange that did occur. It was Angelica who first placed a comma after the "dear" in reference to Hamilton. In his response he imitates her mistake (?) saying "adieu ma chere, soeur" (farewell my dear, sister) and invites her to repeat the mistake in future correspondence. This is all semantics and there is no confirmation of anything illicit but it was historically inspired by real events.
BTW the voice actress for Circe is now dating J. and yes this is now were Epic Trauma the musical really gets going. Also in the last scene you see a person on the roof the the building. That WAS Elpenor, who gets drunk and falls off the building to his death and is never talked about again in the Odyssey.
Circe is actually a whole lot more helpful to Odysseus than shown in EPIC. He stayed with her for about a year and she warned him of other monsters he'll meet along the way and gave him and his men supplies when they finally set off to go back home. These two may have slept together, but in modern times there's question of how much of that was actually sane safe and consensual since Hermes explictly told Odysseus that he has to sleep with her once he beats her in order to recieve her help and free his men
I don't think "Just a man" is used as an excuse here. One thing about Ancient Greece is that when you're dealing with a god, goddess or otherwise immortal being, your opinion or want *_does not matter._* Circe is a goddess. I personally see this as Odysseus simply stating a fact: He is just a man, a mere mortal compare to a goddess. He is powerless now that the molly wore off and can not stop her even if he wants to. This is later reinforced by him _begging_ her for help, when he defeated her just moments ago. Edit: Also the "Odysseus cheated with Circe in the Odyssey" is pretty ambiguous. While yeah he definitely sleep with her, she was also holding his men hostage and Hermes explicitly told him the only way out is to sleep with her. Not to mention this also depends on what version you read and the translator's biases and what you consider cheating. The version I read, Circe was holding his men hostage and Hermes told him to and as I mentioned, a mortal can't really do shit to a goddess, so I don't consider it cheating, since it was coercion and he kinda needed to. Also because he was told to by a god, and you don't really refuse what a god told you to do (case in point: the baby)
For the Underworld, these are the animatics I recommend: The Underworld- Falperio05’s (seriously. I haven’t seen anyone watch it, but it’s _so good)_ No Longer You- Ximena Natzel (absolutely beautiful and haunting, just like the song. 11/10) Monster- Gigi (it’s basically a mandatory watch at this point, and valid, too. The animation is _insane)_
I almost squeed when you said "he's just a man" before the song said it! Very good 😂 And justifying weakness with "just a man" is such a good notion, I haven't been able to word it but that's exactly it!
At this point in the musical? Yes I agree Just a Man is Odysseus's theme. I won't say what song or when you'll hear it but there is another song I think we all associate with Ody a bit more now Spoilers**** RAWR😉
Personally, I'm relieved Jay changed the arc about Circe. This way is so much better. There was an argument in the fandom on the "12 long years" line. People continue to claim it was only 10 years, because the musical doesn't really show the passage of time. In the original story, they pirated around the Mediterranean for a while, ran out of food, met the Lotus Eaters and Polyphemus, got blown away by Poseidon, spent 2 years with Circe, and in Year 13 Ody lands on a certain island paradise. (Avoiding spoilers.) That means they met Circe in Year 11, but if we're skipping the "Ody falls for Circe" plot line (thank the gods) then this scene could reasonably be anywhere from Year 10 to Year 13. So 12 long years is not a mistake, and people really need to stop mocking Jay about it.
well it whas a mistake since jay told us in a tiktok he made he missed that part but its still his story so people just need to accept whatever he thinks of to make sure that it fit in the story
Actually, the myth is split into two there are 2 different myths about it, and there is debate on which is true.And some believe the one where he gives in was created by the romans because they absolutely hated odysseus. Also in the story where he gives in. He creates a child with Circe which ends up. Murdering him and then marrying Odysseus's wife. So yeah, dark.
For your next animatic. I STRONGLY recommend theearteest. The "underworld" it's amazing and it does the best job at conveying the plot and emotion the best. Hands down!!!
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
In the original Odyssey Odysseus does sleep with Circe but its not by choice, both she and hermes tell him that he HAS to otherwise she'll kill his men. Odysseus even tells Penelope what happened when he returns to Ithaca and tells her "in my heart, I did not consent". There are iterations where he cheats willingly, but they came long after the original novel.
Coercion based on fear and power imbalance is not consent, hes quite literally a victim.
Not Circe bullying a man so hard with her hotness he started crying about his wife. Love that for them
I love how you can see Elpenor teetering on Circe's roof at the end
In the original Odysseus are SA By Circe. He does not give away because he wanna to but because he was coerced to survive
in the nicest, sweetest most beautiful way possible She really said "go to hell" 😂
One thing I enjoy about this song and animatic is that I can see Circe testing him. She's stated she's had bad experiences before. This is practically an invitation to take advantage and she states it as such "everyone's true colors are revealed..." The instant Ody stops it and refocuses on his wife, and stops the "I can outwit my way through this", the aggression stops too. And when he's honest and open and just asks...that's what pushes her judgement call on his sincerity and she becomes all business.
In regard to Hamilton, there is some truth to the potential interest between Alexander and Angelica. The letter she mentions with "My dearest, Angelica" is a reference to an exchange that did occur. It was Angelica who first placed a comma after the "dear" in reference to Hamilton. In his response he imitates her mistake (?) saying "adieu ma chere, soeur" (farewell my dear, sister) and invites her to repeat the mistake in future correspondence. This is all semantics and there is no confirmation of anything illicit but it was historically inspired by real events.
BTW the voice actress for Circe is now dating J. and yes this is now were Epic Trauma the musical really gets going.
Also in the last scene you see a person on the roof the the building. That WAS Elpenor, who gets drunk and falls off the building to his death and is never talked about again in the Odyssey.
15:18 - Elpenor on the roof
Circe is actually a whole lot more helpful to Odysseus than shown in EPIC. He stayed with her for about a year and she warned him of other monsters he'll meet along the way and gave him and his men supplies when they finally set off to go back home. These two may have slept together, but in modern times there's question of how much of that was actually sane safe and consensual since Hermes explictly told Odysseus that he has to sleep with her once he beats her in order to recieve her help and free his men
I don't think "Just a man" is used as an excuse here. One thing about Ancient Greece is that when you're dealing with a god, goddess or otherwise immortal being, your opinion or want *_does not matter._*
Circe is a goddess. I personally see this as Odysseus simply stating a fact: He is just a man, a mere mortal compare to a goddess. He is powerless now that the molly wore off and can not stop her even if he wants to. This is later reinforced by him _begging_ her for help, when he defeated her just moments ago.
Edit: Also the "Odysseus cheated with Circe in the Odyssey" is pretty ambiguous. While yeah he definitely sleep with her, she was also holding his men hostage and Hermes explicitly told him the only way out is to sleep with her.
Not to mention this also depends on what version you read and the translator's biases and what you consider cheating. The version I read, Circe was holding his men hostage and Hermes told him to and as I mentioned, a mortal can't really do shit to a goddess, so I don't consider it cheating, since it was coercion and he kinda needed to.
Also because he was told to by a god, and you don't really refuse what a god told you to do (case in point: the baby)
For the Underworld, these are the animatics I recommend:
The Underworld- Falperio05’s (seriously. I haven’t seen anyone watch it, but it’s _so good)_
No Longer You- Ximena Natzel (absolutely beautiful and haunting, just like the song. 11/10)
Monster- Gigi (it’s basically a mandatory watch at this point, and valid, too. The animation is _insane)_
Wow, I never saw that underworld animatic before but you're right, that's gotta be the best one I've seen.
I almost squeed when you said "he's just a man" before the song said it! Very good 😂 And justifying weakness with "just a man" is such a good notion, I haven't been able to word it but that's exactly it!
This song is so pretty, I really like this. I kinda feel like this one is topping my list right now...
Thank you Panda for doing this reaction with DJ
At this point in the musical? Yes I agree Just a Man is Odysseus's theme. I won't say what song or when you'll hear it but there is another song I think we all associate with Ody a bit more now
Spoilers****
RAWR😉
🦖🦖
Personally, I'm relieved Jay changed the arc about Circe. This way is so much better.
There was an argument in the fandom on the "12 long years" line. People continue to claim it was only 10 years, because the musical doesn't really show the passage of time. In the original story, they pirated around the Mediterranean for a while, ran out of food, met the Lotus Eaters and Polyphemus, got blown away by Poseidon, spent 2 years with Circe, and in Year 13 Ody lands on a certain island paradise. (Avoiding spoilers.) That means they met Circe in Year 11, but if we're skipping the "Ody falls for Circe" plot line (thank the gods) then this scene could reasonably be anywhere from Year 10 to Year 13. So 12 long years is not a mistake, and people really need to stop mocking Jay about it.
well it whas a mistake since jay told us in a tiktok he made he missed that part but its still his story so people just need to accept whatever he thinks of to make sure that it fit in the story
Actually, the myth is split into two there are 2 different myths about it, and there is debate on which is true.And some believe the one where he gives in was created by the romans because they absolutely hated odysseus. Also in the story where he gives in. He creates a child with Circe which ends up. Murdering him and then marrying Odysseus's wife. So yeah, dark.
I dunno about dumbest smart man... I've always thought of it as the difference between cleverness and wisdom, myself.
Get ready to be destroyed by the underworld
"if you fall for this, you're not thinking with your head" you mean..... not with the 'correct' head..... sorry not sorry, i had to lol
For your next animatic. I STRONGLY recommend theearteest. The "underworld" it's amazing and it does the best job at conveying the plot and emotion the best. Hands down!!!
Have you seen Falperio05’s version?