Видео

You can email me at pontisteve@earthlink.net.

It depends. A computer can be a little bad, or totally junk. Different things can break inside, and have different symptoms. But keep in mind that you can have spark on a fox body (or TFI equipped Ford) without the computer even being installed. So if you give it a fuel source too, you could get it to run a little bit, even without a computer installed. If your capacitors are bad, have that fixed first. Then see how it runs, and go from there. Sometimes it's not just one problem, it's a stack of small problems.

No, I probably will not make a video on that. There's not that much to the bench tester. Power, ground, 5v ref, fuel pump, check engine light, power indicator, and a switch for code pulling mode. I don't really recommend replacing the capacitors DIY. If you don't have good magnification and lighting, and good soldering and desoldering tools, along with a good working knowledge of board repair, you can end up damaging the board pretty easily and making your life worse. If you're familiar with capacitor repair and have done that type of work before then ok. But it's not a home-owner type of job for most people to try. I've had to fix plenty of computers that other "Ebay rebuilders" worked on, and they basically ruined the PCM or made it much worse.

Yes, you can use a 2 channel scope. You'll just be limited to seeing 2 piece of data at a time. Bit that's workable. You just might want to log different things each time. The big difference with your 86 truck is that the truck is probably speed density EFI with batch fire. So there are two injector drivers, each driver firing four injectors simultaneously instead of sequential injection where each injector has its own driver. This means the batch fire vehicles only have 2 injector wires and 2 drivers in the pcm, and they don't have a signature PIP signal. So all 8 PIP signals are the same, there is no unique signature PIP signal.

Thank you for your response!

You would have to test the PIP sensor and the TFI module separately. By far, the TFI module is the more likely suspect, but either can cause a problem. The PIP sensor is easy to test, and the TFI module is really not easy. The only true way to test a TFI module is either real world replacement, or an oscilloscope. They go bad more often because of their proximity to heat. PIP sensors rarely go bad, but it's possible, and easy to test. Every time you get a PIP signal, you will also get 1 of 8 injectors firing, the fuel pump will run if it isn't already, and you will get 1 spark of the coil. If you get a PIP and not a spark, the TFI module or coil is the problem. Probably the TFI module.

The power wire to the coil should have a constant 12v any time the key is on. Engine cranking or running, or even just with the key on, that coil should be getting power. So a test light (hooked to a good ground) with its tip touching the power terminal of the coil should always have a bright light when the key is on. If that light goes out, either the test light tip is no longer touching the coil positive terminal, or you have a voltage drop on the power wire somewhere. That coil gets it's power from the ignition switch, which means high amperage is flowing thru the ignition switch contacts. Which means those contacts can corroded and fail over time. So a bad ignition switch could cause a voltage drop across its coil contacts. Also, the plastic ignition switch harness connector gets brittle with age, and may not be pushing the coil power wire terminals into the ignition switch terminals, failing to fully seat them and make good contact.

​@@dragradialperformance3540thanks a ton man. I REALLY appreciate that info. You're the man

@@dragradialperformance3540 idk if this helps with anything, but I did notice the #18 fuse was popped. Controls idle air tracking, tach, cooling fans, restart choke.. thanks again for the help.

Watch the video a few times. You rotate the motor to 10 BTDC on #1 compression stroke. Stab the dizzy in so that the rotor points to where I show in the video on the lower intake. Then rotate the cap (dist. housing) until the leading edge of the rotor tip lines uo with the middle of the PIP sensor.

The S wire shouldn't have anything to do with the PCM operation, unless I'm missing something. That should just be a 12v start signal coming from the ignition switch, and going to the starter relay. Are you sure that wire is what you think it is, and that it's hooked up to the right terminal on the starter relay? The S wire should not affect PCM operation, unless the wire is shorted to other wires in the harness or something.

Thank you very much for your help. Traced it to transmission neutral switch. Ignition switch wire coming red/blue goes to s terminal at relay switch but splices off to transmission safet switch.Started right up

Make sure the roll pin isn't broken, and gear doesn't turn on shaft.

If turning the distributor by hand makes sparks and injector pulses and fuel pump run, then the distributor is working fine. Make sure the gear is attached to the shaft at the bottom, and not free spinning. And install it and make sure that when you crank it, the rotor spins.

I found a partial problem.I got the engine running spark and injector pulse. Found that the starter solenoid s terminal wire will make the engine run when i jump it direct from the battery but when i hook the s terminal wire back it will only crank no spark or injector pulse.But there is a signal with 12 volt coming from ignition switch.Any ideas please and thank you.

Remove the cap and see if the rotor turns when you crank the engine. Maybe it's a broke timing chain, cam, or cam gear if it doesn't spin. The TFI module only provides spark, but the PIP Sensor inside the distributor will affect spark, Injector pulse, and fuel pump relay operation. That's all the clicking and activity you're hearing when you spin the spare distributor. You're on the right track. Now just figure out if it's PIP You're missing, or spark only, or if the distributor isn't actually spinning.

You got it! I'm glad you found it helpful.

Same steps, just unbolt the glass from the regulator, tilt, and lift out.

Sounds like grandma owes me some chocolate chip cookies!

That's not stock, somebody has rewired something. With the key on, unplug an injector and test for voltage on both terminals. The one with 12v is the power wire. Mark the other wire with tape or something. The one that isn't power is the control wire.

Could be a weak coil, too much spark plug gap, low fuel pressure at WOT, or a bad TFI module. Possibly bad computer capacitors as well. You have to pinpoint whether the problem is spark, fuel pressure, or something.

You would need either a scope to test it properly or just substitute one part at a time to see what fixes it. Make sure the wires are separated, and plug gaps are the same and correct. You can check coil strength by using an incandescent test light or Lisle adjustable gap spark tester to increase the gap and see if the spark remains a bluish purple that can jump at least a 1" gap. If so, coil is fine. Make sure the distributor shaft and rotor isn't wobbly and that no oil is inside the distributor. You can try disconnecting the MSD box, if it has the plug and play harness. Otherwise, my best guess is TFI module, weak coil, or bad pickup coil (PIP sensor), in that order. New doesn't mean good... especially with the TFI module.

@@dragradialperformance3540 Roger that I have a motorcraft TFI replacement. Distributor is motorcraft but I had to put a non OEM PIP sensor in it as the old one had degraded. My gap is currently .030” with 7-8 psi of boost with the MSD box. Drives fabulous until I’m touching 6k rpm. Maybe distributor shaft is moving around or the aftermarket PIP sensor isn’t getting a clean signal from the shutter wheel?

@@Bacongrease00 it's possible. You could try dropping the gap to .025" first, and see if that cures it. A Motorcraft PIP sensor would be much better, and worth a try. I never use anything but Motorcraft PIPs. It could just be a bad TFI. I've had them fail in a variety of different ways, one of which was high RPM breakup. With an oscilloscope on the PIP, SPOUT, coil power, and coil control wires, we can see everything and know exactly what's going wrong. But without a scope, you're down to substitute testing.

@@dragradialperformance3540 I took gap to .024 no change, removed the MSD box, then it ran fine to 6600

@@Bacongrease00 MSD strikes again!

I never test a coil with an ohmmeter. If the coil is bad enough, an ohmmeter could catch it. But if the ohmmeter says the coil is perfectly within specs, that doesn't mean the coil is good. The reason is the coil heats up a lot when actually being used. And so while the ohm tests may be accurate when the coil is cold, the coil could quickly warm up and no longer be any good. An ohmmeter is just not a good test for coils. Instead, check for constant power on the red wire, under a small load. And check for ground pulse as shown in this video. Then load test the output of the coil by slowly increasing the gap of your spark tester. A good coil will fire a bluish purple spark over an inch. A weak coil will be a yellow spark that can't go much more than 1/2". A bad coil won't fire at all.

@@dragradialperformance3540 sorry meant the connector positive to the distributor coming from engine harness . The negative on my distributor completely fryed , so when probing the positive pin 1 and 5 I got 47 ohms with the distributor disconnected on run command from ignition switch

Only time it reads zero from pin 1 to ground is when I remove ip fuse 18 under the dash

@@raulh802 Do I understand it that you're ohming power wires? There's just no reason to, and whenever you ohm something, it has to be disconnected. Ohming wires and coils is nearly worthless (except airbag wiring, or when checking for a short to ground). The ohm meter is best used for measuring resistance in solenoids. For everything else, stick with measuring voltage. Or in some cases, amperage. If you're saying the negative WIRE going from the TFI module to the coil has literally fried, then it's shorting straight to power some how. That could be a dead shorted coil, or a short to power in the coil control wire. When you say pin 5, can I assume that means you're measuring stuff at the TFI module connector? Again, stick with voltage, or pulse testing.

@@dragradialperformance3540 The plug that connects into the distrubutor is what i was checking. it comes off the injector harness and has a radio supression capicitor on the same electrical point. That female plug has 7 pins pin 1 is power to that pin along with coil positive , pin 5 ground and tfi module. My module is in a remote area not like the fox. With the engine off and checking resistance fom pin 1 to ground it has resistance of 47 ohms almost as if it was shorting. being that the ground wire to the distrubutor is smaller gauge , i thought that is wahy it would burn up before the thicker red wire. I was trying to find the source of the ground fault.

If you have coil control (ground pulse) from the TFI module, then you're not worried about the PIP Sensor signal or the TFI module. If you also have Injector pulse, then you aren't worried about the PCM. But that should be checked, because the TFI module can fire the coil with just a PIP signal, even without a computer installed. The coil still needs to be checked for power coming in on the red wire. That same power is what is showing up as a lighted test light on the coil control wire, as shown in this video. If you have power on the red wire constantly during cranking, and coil control on the negative side, then the coil should be producing sparks. Check that the coil wire to the cap has a spark in it during cranking, using an online spark tester, or an HEI spark tester. If no spark despite good coil power and good coil control, then the coil is bad.

It doesn't really sound like a bad TFI to me if the other 7 cylinders fire fine. I've not seen this issue before. Are you sure that's what's happening? The TFI module fires the coil every time it gets either a PIP signal from the pickup coil in the distributor, or a SPOUT signal from the PCM (if the SPOUT connector is plugged in). Try that test with the SPOUT connector plugged in, and also unplugged. If it's a PCM issue, you'll have all 8 sparks if the SPOUT connector is unplugged. If it's not a PCM issue, it's probably an issue with the stator inside the distributor. It has 8 teeth, one skinny and the rest wide. Make sure not of them are missing or bent. Also make sure the cap points look fine.

This video was designed to show you how to test injector pulse. It wasn't a case study on diagnosing this particular car. There wasn't anything wrong with this car, I was just using it to make videos. I probably disabled the injector pulse for this video by removing the PCM. (You would still have spark, even with the PCM not installed, since the TFI module will fire the coils off of either the PIP or SPOUT signals).

Try unplugging the SPOUT connector. That takes the PCM out of the equation, and the ignition module fires the coil based solely on the PIP signal. See if it starts that way. If not, you'll have to check the PIP signal, preferably with an LED test light. I believe I have a video showing that. It's the top wire on your ignition module connector. Also, try unplugging the coil and hooking a test light to battery positive, then touching the yellow/green wire (key on). See if it lights the test light (by providing a ground to it, since it's already hooked up to 12v power). If the light lights up, there may be a short to ground in that coil ground wire. If so, it would energize the coil non-stop, and blow up every coil you install.

The coil inside is basically one wire, coiled around an iron core. Every wire has 2 ends. When the coil is not grounded, power basically just goes in one end and comes out the other. So 12v in and 12v out. It's not until you power one end and ground the other that the coil charges. Which means you should have 12v on coil negative, until the ignition module grounds that tan wire. If you don't, test it again with the tan wire disconnected, or ohm test the unplugged coil on those two terminals, to make sure the coil primary windings aren't broken and open.

Lots of early 90s capacitors seemed to start going bad about 15 years into their life, it's a plague in the retro video game system community.

Don't be so sure. It's a 4-layer cake, so two internal layers of traces you can't see, and the back side of the board has components all over it too. They are older and more spread out than modern PCMs though, with a lot less stuff and no ball sockets. I built that bench test setup using an old Ford EEC-IV PCM for a case, and polished the lid up just to be cool. It works great for basic bench testing.

​@@dragradialperformance3540oh god, does that mean 2000s cars have the shitty solder that plagued the entire tech industry too?

@@Wheagg I sure hope not! I think it's possible around 2007-up that maybe California wants that. But I so far haven't seen any evidence of ROHS in that era. Just documents talking about it from CA.

I'm not familiar with the older Dodge computers. But any computer that has electrolytic capacitors in them that is over 20 years old would be highly recommended for replacing the capacitors BEFORE they leak. They are about the only part inside that has a shelf life. Everything else just works until it doesn't. These die of age, regardless of care or mileage. Computers that are under the hood are usually sealed up with some sort of rubbery type gasket material. Computers installed inside the vehicle don't need to be waterproof, and so they may not seal them at all. That's how this 94 is, unsealed and very easy to take apart. Professionals who repair PCMs regularly will heat up the computer and carefully cut or pry apart the rubber seal to get it apart without damaging the PCM. After it's apart and repaired, they clean all that rubber off and replace it with something similar, or maybe even just silicone. I don't know if the older Dodge PCMs have electrolytic capacitors in them. But if they do, they should be replaced based on age alone. We're seeing 94-95 Fords now coming in with capacitor issues, and have been seeing 87-93 Ford PCMs come in for many years now. So your 92, if it has capacitors, is the right age (or late) to replace them. Everything else in the PCM is not in need of refreshing or upgrading, just the capacitors. We only do the Ford computers, but I can probably turn you on to some smart guys who do the Dodges, if you can find out that your PCM has capacitors in it. A lot of the pre-96 era stuff does.

@@dragradialperformance3540 thank you for taking the time to write me a nice response I have some research to do then to find out if I have those capacitors. I do put a lot of trust in this vehicle my wife also daily drives a 92 Cherokee we really like Cherokees and it just so happens we like the 92 models I've had almost every year of Cherokee xj but the ones we have kept and really like is the 92s or 91-95 really is what I tend to stick with. But anyways I'm going to do some research and see if I can figure out more about the ECM. My cherokee is very heavily modified I've rebuilt most of the harness with mil spec wire that was a fun project a little tough to find some of the contacts for the OEM plugs. I could have gone with an aftermarket computer and stuff but I've done some things and added some stuff to get more out of the stock systems and I just like having the stock control modules I'm running a piggyback setup on the transmission control module to do some neat things in conjunction with some transmission mods but I also retain all the stock functions. Then I'm running a stroker engine with some things to make it all work with the stock ECM it's actually been very reliable I've played with these jeeps for so many years that I've kinda figured out what's best for reliability and modifications sometimes you don't always get reliability with modifications. Then I have access to diagnostics for the transmission and engine module even some live data with my snap on mt2500 you probably are familiar with that since you work on the pre obd2 Ford's. I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to my gadgets and playing around with these jeeps. I've never seen a Cherokee pre obd2 module fail except for I have seen the voltage regulation fail which is controlled by the ECM you can replace the ECM or set up an aftermarket regulator to correct the problem. I really like the idea of having someone freshen up a module or two for me if it has capacitors, I'm definitely going to learn more about their construction. We plan on driving our Cherokees and others for a long time to come. Thanks again for the information I'm excited to learn more about it.

@@dragradialperformance3540 here's a short little video linked below of the ECM I have. it looks like it does have capacitors from the little bit of research I've done. I actually was reading some reviews on capacitor kits available for the ECM and one review said that he had a computer repair shop installed them and it works great. My ECM is coated with that rubber stuff as it's under the hood. I still want to look into it more but I wanted to add this 2 minute video I found that shows what my jeep ECM looks like. Ideally I'd like to find someone who is familiar with control modules and knows what the best parts are to use like the best brand or type of capacitors if that matters. I'd just like it done as best as possible if I'm going to do it and it should also be sealed back up well afterwards because my jeep sees some nasty conditions sometimes. I'm actually kinda surprised I've never experienced any problems because there's tons of stuff about capacitor failure when I Google search. ruclips.net/video/JlyGkSAEAvE/видео.htmlsi=I1fSLbIZd4TlSvM2

@@forreststrong797 yes, that's them! Look into Nichicon capacitors. They're high quality Japanese capacitors, and it looks like those are the ones used by Jeep, as well as our Fords.

What, replacing the capacitors? It does if you know what you're doing. It's not really a DIY job. Does a Jeep pcm that new still have electrolytic capacitors?

You can email me at pontisteve@earthlink.net.

When you unplug the SPOUT connector, you are eliminating computer control of timing, and the ignition module instead fires the coil at a fixed timing value every time. That value is set by you, and should be 10 degrees BTDC. Plugging SPOUT back in let's the computer control the timing, but as soon as you unplug it again, it should be rock solid at 10 degrees BTDC again. Unless you are using your timing light wrong or it's defective, the only way the timing can chance with SPOUT unplugged is if the distributor bolt is loose, there's something defective inside the distributor (like a broken rotor or rotor plate), or your harmonic balancer is really bad. The balancer has inner hub that bolts to the crank, and an outer hub that is presses onto the inner hub with a piece of rubber strip in between. When this rubber gets really old and bad, the outer hub can slip on the inner hub, moving the timing mark. Actual timing doesn't move, but the timing mark does. You can check the accuracy of the timing mark on the balancer using a brass piston stop in cyl #1 plug hole, and rotating the motor both directions until it hits the piston stop at about 10 degrees before and after TDC.

@@Pontisteve Thank you for responding. I did a water pump change and the balancer was ok, I thought the same thing at first but I’m still having the same issue. I will recheck the rotor and plate again. I marked the balancer and set it at 10 degrees BTDC and plugged the spout connector back in and it seemed to drive fine. The crazy part is, the next day when the engine was cold the car had a rough idle and when I took it out for a ride, the engine started stumbling and had lack of power so I checked the timing again and it wasn’t at 10 degrees, it was jumping between 12 to 40, so this one has me confused lol. I did new plugs, wires and rotor cap. I didn’t change the Ignition Control Module so I was thinking it’s bad and not sending the correct signal out. Not sure why it’s not holding timing to be honest. I really don’t want to throw money at it without knowing the exact issue. But I will check it with a different timing light and go from there. Thank you for the advice I appreciate it.

@@sheba6779 You're only checking timing with the SPOUT connector removed, correct? Because with SPOUT plugged in, timing will be moving all over the place, especially at idle. Unplugged, it should be 10 BTDC at all times. Plugged in, idle is centered around 20 degrees BTDC in the computer's commands, but will move several degrees in either direction of that to perfect idle quality. The worse the car is running (for some other reason), the more timing the computer will add or subtract from that centerline of 20 at idle.

Flash programming did not start until 1996. These older computers can be custom tuned, but they require an actual chip to be burned, and inserted into the back side of the computer.

I built it myself.

@@dragradialperformance3540 how much would you charge to build one for me? We tune a lot of foxes, sadly a lot of them come in with dead ecu, always blaming the tuner when their car don't want to get tuned lol

​@shangman4240 email me at pontisteve@earthlink.net and I'll give you the current pricing and shipping info.

The zip tie goes thru factory holes in the door metal. See 5:40 into the video.

You usually do not need to use a standalone computer for most cars making under 700 HP and turning less than 7000 RPM. If you want to use a standalone PCM, check into Holley and MegaSquirt. You can usually use the factory PCM, if it works well. A chip can be built that custom tunes the PCM for just about any modifications necessary. You're welcome to email me details about your project and computer, and I'll see what I think about what you need. My email address is pontisteve@earthlink.net.

You can email us at pontisteve@earthlink.net for pricing and instructions.

It wasn't. I was showing that with the engine disabled what spark and injector pulse looked like, and stated that if it weren't disabled the test light would be blinking. The video shows how to test for injector pulse. Regardless of whether the car has it or doesn't have it in this video, you still see how to check it.

Ok, I have injector pulse but no fuel to the plugs 🤔

@@canaryinacoalmine8746 The injector needs two things to fire: Key-on 12v power on the red wire, and a ground pulse from the PCM on the other wire. A test light lets you check each wire independently. A NOID light lets you check for both of these things simultaneously, and hands free. If the power and ground pulse are getting to the injector plug, then that connector must be able to transmit them into the injector terminals. In other words, good contact, correct fitting pins, and no corrosion. If the injector actually gets the power and ground pulse, then it should electrically turn on the injector's electromagnet, current should flow, and the injector pintle should open. The injector will make a clicking sound and feel. If the pintle is not physically stuck shut (usually due to injectors sitting for a long time with ethanol laden fuel in them), then fuel should flow thru the injector while it's on. This not only means the fuel pump must be working and creating 39 PSI at the rail, but it also means the injector bucket filter (pressed into the top of the injector) must also be clean enough to let fuel into the top of the injector. That bucket filter is the last chance for fuel to be filtered before it gets into the injector's internals. When injectors stick shut, it's usually not all 8 of them. It could be several though. Tapping on the injector may unstick them. You can try cranking the engine over while pinching the injector with your fingers, to see if you feel it clicking on and off. That clicking most likely tells you the electronics are all good, but cannot tell you if fuel is capable of actually flowing thru that injector (if it's stuck closed mechanically).

@@dragradialperformance3540 Thanks champ. Explained in detail. Great work you have gone the extra mile. Much appreciated 👍🙂

That's because I already fixed the issue before making this video. I repeated the whole process on film just so people like you could see how to do it. Is lifting the window that difficult to envision?

I appreciate the step by step. My window has been held up by. taping it, worthless. I saw this video which is perfect for the temporary fix. The only thing I couldn’t see was where you tied the ties behind the speakers by the window to hold up the window. I’m not planning on purchasing anything new for this car. All easy & temporary fixes for little jobs from here on out. It’s not worth it anymore. Too many things going wrong all at same time. Thank you~😊

@@peg7997 tape never works long, and damages the paint if it's on there very long. This fix is much better, and can be fairly permanent if you don't want to buy a new window regulator and just want it up all the time. Look at time stamp 6:10 to see where I put the zip ties thru the window regulator.

If you use an incandescent test light, or an inline spark tester with adjustable gap like the Lisle tool, you can slowly increase the gap that the spark jumps from 1/4" to about 1". The spark should easily jump the gap that far, and the spark should be a bluish purple. A consistently yellow spark that struggles to jump a 3/4 to 1" gap is a weak coil. Confirm the coil has a good 12v power going to it, and replace the coil with a genuine Motorcraft.

The idea is to get a really light, even film of thermal transfer paste between the module and the distributor pad. Sanding the pad flat is better. And high quality thermal transfer paste (often made for home PC chip installation) helps dissipate the heat better. You can also buy kits that relocate the module off of the distributor. That's what Ford did in 94 to fix the module deaths that older Fords are known for.

@@dragradialperformance3540 Problem with those kits is they involved screwing around with wires. That's something I'm simply not comfortable with. Now, my current module only caused one stall on a cool evening. Do you think it's safe to just pull it, clean it, apply the paste better, and try it again or do I need to buy yet another?

@@JRC99 when the module isn't installed correctly and overheats, it cooks the module. It probably wouldn't work at all because of heat. Chances are if your new module is acting up, it's probably just a factory defect. These new modules are all junk, compared to the original Motorcraft ones. I've had to put 3 or 4 in a row on a car just to get a good new one. So yeah, feel free to pull your module and reinstall it as shown in the video. The video makes the module paste look much thicker than it really is. Spread it as thin as possible, while still having a complete thin layer across the entire module. None should squeeze out when tightening the module.

@@dragradialperformance3540 Interesting. Both my new Motor craft modules worked again after the car sat for a few minutes. Even the first one I put no paste on and that was on a 95 degree day. So if I understand you correctly, both of them are still good?

@@JRC99 I can't say that one way or the other. It is terribly complex to actually test an ignition module. It requires a scope. The module gets hot quickly, and can easily act differently because of temperature. I've had some that wouldn't start, but if it did start it would run good. Others ran fine at idle, and broke up at high RPM. Others just did not work. The new Ford ones aren't any better than the cheap chinese junk. You can watch my videos on me testing a module with a scope, to see what I'm talking about. It's not easy to truly test one. For most people, it's easier to just try different modules and see if the car runs differently. You can not assume that the first new module you put in a car will be good out of the box. It's like russian roulette.

The red/light green wire should have 12v on it any time the key is on. This comes from the ignition switch (in the START or RUN position, then goes thru Fuse Link N (that may vary depending on what year car it is), and then it goes to a splice, which goes to both the ignition coil and the EEC power relay. Test this wire with an incandescent test light that's grounded to battery negative. This light should remain bright at all times, even when cranking. If not, find out why. Maybe you have a half melted fusible link. The other wire will have a ground pulse on it during cranking. When not cranking, 12v will come from the red wire, thru the coil windings, and out the other side onto the tan/yellow wire (or whatever color your coil ground wire is). If you don't have power on the red/light green wire, then you wouldn't see that power coming thru the windings of a coil when the key is on and engine is off, indicating the red wire doesn't have power.