1992 5.0 no-start Mustang: Had spark, but thought it was weak. Flicker of test light at -12V coil terminal eased concerns about TFI & PIP problems. Could smell fuel at exhaust pipe indicating ok fuel pump & injectors but checked pressure at rail anyway: 42 psig w/pump running to 37-38 off. Fine. Cleaned slag off electrodes in distributor cap, scraped rotor edge to bright metal, resistance of coil wire to distributor was fine (~5000 ohms), spark plugs fine, set gap to specs. Could smell fuel when removing plugs, also indicating ok fuel delivery. Resistance on primary side of coil ok at ~0.4 ohms, but secondary resistance was 18,500 on digital meter and 20,500 on an analog. Cobbled up an air gap tester (1 inch notch in a board with 1/2" 'ears', tapped 1/4-20 and screwed in 2 pieces of 1/4" all-thread.) No spark until about 1/8" gap, and when it finally sparked steadily the gap turned out to be exactly the spark plug gap. That was direct from the coil terminal to negative post of battery in humid air with pointy electrodes. By the time that weak spark went through the coil wire, across the distributor, and down the plug wire into the compressed fuel-air mixture, there wasn't enough energy left to ignite the fire. Checked references and estimate the coil was putting out less than 5000 volts. New Blue Streak coil had same resistance for primary, 8650 on secondary, and threw a spark about an inch long. Pony gets up and goes like she's supposed to now!
While the plug gap may only be 50/1,000th's or so, that is much harder to jump when it's inside the cylinder, under pressure. Outside the cylinder, a good coil will easily jump 3/4 of an inch. To stress test the coil, hook an incandescent test light to a strut tower nut or chassis ground (not battery ground). Then unplug a wire, start the car, and see how far the spark will jump to the tip of the test light. Or use an adjustable inline spark tester like the Lisle one. A healthy spark will be a bluish purple, and will jump nearly an inch. A weak spark will be more yellow and only able to jump 1/2" or less. If a spark is yellow and can barely jump 1/8 of an inch, it's got almost no hope of firing the cylinder. Glad you got it figured out!
What you described is almost identical to what I have going on. I think I’m gonna go get a new coil as well. Was wondering if the coil was the problem and you have solidified my suspicions. Thanks for sharing!
Here’s where I’m at on my 95 F150: truck will sometimes run with the SPOUT connector installed. When it doesn’t run I can unplug the SPOUT and it runs great. It’s intermittent, but when I have to unplug the SPOUT to get it started, I can then plug the SPOUT back in while it’s running and it stays running. Any ideas?
It sounds like a computer issue to me. The only thing plugging SPOUT in does is give the pcm the ability to modify the timing signal to reflect what the timing tables say, instead of being at a constant 10 BTDC.
Ok thanks you kno what's weird tho.. is I put a hot jump wire to starter side of solenoid and normally the motor will spin over.nope no cigar just sparks at the solenoid.ane another strange thing I was checking tfi cord (it's plugs into module not talking bout module itself)! And it might or béen the 4th pin down can't remember but it was giving my test light a pulse..then I realize that the negative battery lead was off...WTF?!?!put it back on battery and then no pulse signal at all..🤯🤔..Mr drag radial ..sir .. anything you have to say I would love to hear it
Check voltage AT the starter, with the key on, and then again with the key in the START position. If you have 12v with the key in the START position at the starter, and your car isn't starting, then either your starter is locked up or your motor is. If you don't have 12v in the start position at the starter, then check the other end of the battery cable at the starter solenoid. One side of that solenoid is hot 12v all the time. The other side gets 12v when the S terminal gets 12v from the ignition switch. I'm not sure what you're talking about with tfi cord, but not module.
@@dragradialperformance3540 there was a short.a splice in the hot coil wire all the way just before the MSD brain.ran new wirers with heat shrink.boom yahtzee.she fired.thank you so much for your intel.it was muich appreciaqted.love your videos btw.if you have time keep em coming.happy new year ..cheers
I am currently diagnosing a 'no spark' condition on a 1993 E350 5.8L with a fender-mounted Gray colored 'Push-Start' style TFI. I am using the TFI Worksheet which is located at TheRangerStation website. I have gone down the check-off list up to #9 which is the 'check Hall-Effect device' and this is where I have encountered a problem. I am not getting the correct 5.7V (getting only 1 volt) on the TFI SPOUT connection of the socket connector so the next step is to check the continuity of the computer (PCM) socket to the TFI socket and if that is OK then I will next do a voltage check directly on the PCM pins 36 (SPOUT) & 56 (PIP). A few years ago I replaced a leaky 10uf cap on the PCM board and now I will replace the 2 remaining suspect caps which are both 47uf. What I would like to obtain is a schematic of the PCM (F2TF-12A650-PB) so I can troubleshoot the PCM if needed (I am experienced with electronics repair). This E350 had been sitting for many years and wouldn't start (due to a bad fuel pump & oxidized starter contacts) but after repairing those and also replacing the plugs, cap & rotor I had it running good for awhile but then one day it wouldn't start again. Any helpful advice is greatly appreciated. Hopefully I will not need to buy a PCM for it. I no longer need this E350 so I do not want to put much more money and time into it. It is a Cube Van / Box Truck which are usually slow sellers and don't sell for much especially when they are 26 years old.
Hi great video! I have a question please, I have a 1988 5.0l and for some reason the vehicle isn’t holding timing. I set the timing, go out for a test drive, put the spout connector back in and everything seems fine. The vehicle starts up with no issues but then stumbles at idle and while driving the next day. I recheck the timing and it’s off. I checked everything, from EGR, vacuum leaks, map, did a base idle reset etc.. still no luck. I have no idea why this is happening. At this point I’m thinking it’s a bad computer or Ignition Control Module because it’s not holding timing correctly. Any thoughts on what could be causing this problem? Thank you.
When you unplug the SPOUT connector, you are eliminating computer control of timing, and the ignition module instead fires the coil at a fixed timing value every time. That value is set by you, and should be 10 degrees BTDC. Plugging SPOUT back in let's the computer control the timing, but as soon as you unplug it again, it should be rock solid at 10 degrees BTDC again. Unless you are using your timing light wrong or it's defective, the only way the timing can chance with SPOUT unplugged is if the distributor bolt is loose, there's something defective inside the distributor (like a broken rotor or rotor plate), or your harmonic balancer is really bad. The balancer has inner hub that bolts to the crank, and an outer hub that is presses onto the inner hub with a piece of rubber strip in between. When this rubber gets really old and bad, the outer hub can slip on the inner hub, moving the timing mark. Actual timing doesn't move, but the timing mark does. You can check the accuracy of the timing mark on the balancer using a brass piston stop in cyl #1 plug hole, and rotating the motor both directions until it hits the piston stop at about 10 degrees before and after TDC.
@@Pontisteve Thank you for responding. I did a water pump change and the balancer was ok, I thought the same thing at first but I’m still having the same issue. I will recheck the rotor and plate again. I marked the balancer and set it at 10 degrees BTDC and plugged the spout connector back in and it seemed to drive fine. The crazy part is, the next day when the engine was cold the car had a rough idle and when I took it out for a ride, the engine started stumbling and had lack of power so I checked the timing again and it wasn’t at 10 degrees, it was jumping between 12 to 40, so this one has me confused lol. I did new plugs, wires and rotor cap. I didn’t change the Ignition Control Module so I was thinking it’s bad and not sending the correct signal out. Not sure why it’s not holding timing to be honest. I really don’t want to throw money at it without knowing the exact issue. But I will check it with a different timing light and go from there. Thank you for the advice I appreciate it.
@@sheba6779 You're only checking timing with the SPOUT connector removed, correct? Because with SPOUT plugged in, timing will be moving all over the place, especially at idle. Unplugged, it should be 10 BTDC at all times. Plugged in, idle is centered around 20 degrees BTDC in the computer's commands, but will move several degrees in either direction of that to perfect idle quality. The worse the car is running (for some other reason), the more timing the computer will add or subtract from that centerline of 20 at idle.
Ok.. what if you disconnected the computer and still no spark? Also.. the test light on the coil reads 12v but shuts off completely and doesn't pulse. Im pulling out whatever hair i have left. I put a new tremic tranny in her. Ran it twice and then just died! Ive replace tfi, coil and computer with a mega squirt. Then replaced the whole dizzy. Im at a loss. I really dont want to replace the whole wiring harness. I suck at wiring
Changing out your whole EFI goes beyond the scope of what I can cover here. But assuming it uses the stock TFI system, then we should be able to treat it like a stock car. The PIP Sensor tells the TFI module when to fire both the coil and the injectors. So checking for Injector pulse during cranking tells you if you have a PIP signal or not. You can also test for PIP directly, at the ignition module. It's the top wire on the TFI connector. Backprobe it, and use an LED test light hooked to batt negative. Look for the light to blink as you crank it. If you have PIP, you should have coil control (negative pulses from the TFI module to the negative side of the coil). You would also have a fuel pump that turns on for 1 second if you bump the starter a little. If no spark, then either the module or the coil isn't working. Test for co control and coil negative to see if you have the pulse, like this video talks about. If you have coil control and no spark, and if the coil has 12v on the positive side, then the coil is bad. If you don't have coil control, but do have PIP, then the TFI module is bad. The PCM doesn't even need to be installed for the spark tests to work.
My 87 LX 5.0L with 165k miles sat for about 3 years , I replaced heater tubes, TC cover and water pump and also all fuel injectors. When I cranked it, it ran horrible. Shut it off, Went to work, came back, and engine would not run this time (no spark). I figured out I had mixed up #2 & #3 wires on the distributor, so I corrected that, but I still have no spark. I don't understand how that could have created a no spark condition. Any ideas?
Try unplugging the SPOUT connector, and see if it runs that way. If so, the PCM is failing. Capacitors going bad is a common problem with them at this age, and can be replaced by someone skilled in that. Use this video to make sure you have 12v at the coil when the key is on, and that you have a pulsed coil ground signal (coil control). Also test for injector pulse, to see if you have that. Double check your firing order, and make sure #1 is located on the correct cap terminal. You should not move plug wires around on this engine. And certainly check fuel pressure. If the car sat for years, the gas is bad and the tank has to be drained, new fuel filter, and probably new pump. Fuel pressure should be 39 PSI.
Ok, I have verified that there's 12V at the coil. I've also verified the coil is good by checking the primary and secondary's resistance. I bought an in-line spark checker... no spark coming from the coil, so it's either a bad TFI module or bad component in the distributor, since your video shows it should spark even with a bad pcm. Let me know if I've missed something. Note: I've never replaced the distributor in this car (only the cap), but the TFI module has been replaced 2 times with Motorcraft ones which corrected the no start condition both times.
@mrau92me crank the engine for a second or two, then stop cranking it. But leave the key in the run position. The fuel pump should run until 1 second after the engine comes to a stop. If it does, the PIP Sensor in the distributor is good. If you can't get the pump to run during cranking, then suspect the PIP Sensor. Otherwise, suspect the module. Unfortunately, the old Ford Motorcraft ignition module was the only good one, and they quit making them and started outsourcing them from China a few years ago. You can now go thru several new modules trying to get one good new one.
@@dragradialperformance3540 Thanks. I'll try the pump running test. What do you know about the MSD branded TFI module? I'm wondering if it could be just a relabelled Motorcraft one.
@@mrau92me the original Motorcraft modules were embossed with large Motorcraft lettering in hard plastic. A few years back they quit making them, and now they look just like the cheap Chinese parts store modules, with Motorcraft stamped in ink on a flat surface. They're buying them now and reselling someone else's module. It's not nearly as good as the real Motorcraft ones. I don't think it matters which brand you use. I believe they're all mediocre. It's now random luck which one you buy. I would think one from Standard Motor Products or NAPA would be a good bet, as these have been out for a long time, and hopefully they'll have worked out the obvious bugs.
Hi Steve, I came here after you said you uploaded this clip. I have all these tools except for the LED light. I have already used my Multi meter to check Primary and secondary resistance of the coil, and voltages. Then I used the Spark tester and got spark. Unless I missed it, I didn't see what the LED was for in your demo. Also, my main issue with my F150 is not no start, but poor power, sputtering, bucking, and detonation like timing is not getting adjusted right. I do get a PIP circuit fault as well as a Hego always lean and an insufficient EGR flow detected fault. As I have mentioned elsewhere, unless I am doing my testing wrong on the components I have checked so far, everything from TPS, IAC,, COIL, and TFI. The only possibly out of spec item I may have found is not 8-10 V while cranking and trying to read START voltage while cranking. Odd because truck starts and runs.
My next checks will be Resistance from distributor to engine ground, Distributor to TFI ground at pin 6, Hall effect at Spoutharness connector while cranking 5-7 v desired, If not, then disconnect ECA, redo test at pin 56, If not correct then check contuity of blue PIP wire to distributor from Pin 56, If correct, I am told to reconnect harness to a substitute processor and redo Hall effect check @ Spout harness. If still don't get 5-7 V on SPOUT or PIP wires during crank then Hall effect is probably shorted. Then I am told once I achieve a 5-7V If I still don't get pulsating signal at Negative coil, the TFI is bad provided all the above is good. Hopefully this all makes sense.
I also should say, I have not also checked other obvious or not so obvious components, Plugs and Wires, Fuel Pressures, Fuel Filters,, Injectors, MAF sensor, etc. Which I am now finally able to get to since our local dosage of rains have subsided I did do a temp test on inlet and outlets of the CATS and unless I have it backwards, this shows no blockage.
Insufficient EGR flow will be either a stuck closed EGR valve, no vacuum to valve at part throttle, or clogged passages. If the truck uses an EGR Valve Position Sensor, then it's all about the valve opening and not about actual flow measurements. The HEGO always lean code is what you need to be chasing. It could be a bad O2 always reporting 0 volts. That would make the truck add a lot of fuel and run very rich, then the O2 would eventually fail and throw a code, and the truck would run better at that point because it would ignore the O2. Or it could be that the truck really is lean. You need to do a fuel pressure test, with vacuum regulator unplugged, at idle and at 3,500 RPM. OTC has a nice, inexpensive fuel pressure gauge w/ Ford adapter.
Thanks, Steve. Is it possible that a bad TFI could cause the CCD/ ECC IV to set the timing off spec due to PIP and Spout issue, or not set it as it should under load and when the computer does all this to cause the EGR and HEGO code issues? Or are they separate in themselves? I did put a Mityvac to the EGR and it definitely is not stuck. I also did buy a Fuel Pressure tester last week. I will test pressure as you say, as soon as I can find that Vac regulator you mention.
The fuel pressure regulator is on the fuel rail, and has a vacuum line going to it. A bad TFI module wouldn't cause the EEC-IV computer to do anything wrong, it would just directly cause an ignition problem. You can see PIP and SPOUT signals with a scope.
1st Thank you for the time you took to make these videos. I see the text light connected to the rotor cap port where the coil wire normally goes. But the wire connected from the coil, where is the other end connected to?
The spark tester is inserted in the middle of the coil wire. So there is one wire going from the coil to the spark tester, and another going from the spark tester to the middle of the distributor cap. I believe I used an extra spark plug wire as the wire running from the spark tester to the cap.
Hello, I have a 1995 svt mustang cobra with the 5.0 engine, I have an crank no start condition, I have no spark at the coil, also I noticed the check engine light doesn't turn on at all not even on the second key position, I replaced the coil and icm and nothing still not spark, im thinking the pcm is bad , any suggestions on what test should I do ?
You're thinking correctly. The lack of a check engine light means either that bulb is bad, or that PCM is not "on". But before you can condemn the PCM as bad, you must first make sure that the PCM is getting all the powers and grounds it's supposed to have at the PCM connector, with the key on. Look for power on pin 1 all the time (keep alive memory), and on pins 37 and 57 (key-on 12v). Look for constant ground on pins 20, 40, and 60. And look for 5v on pin 26. If the powers and grounds are there, you should have 5v coming out of the PCM on pin 26 (VREF). You should also have a check engine light come on, and a fuel pump prime for 1 second each time you turn the key on. You can also communicate with the 94-95 5.0's using an OBD1 scantool. If the powers and grounds are good and the PCM doesn't do these things, it's bad.
Generally, these PCMs are not known for failing, but anything is possible. I would be more likely to believe it's not on. You might want to start with checking all the fuses and any fusible links.
@Drag Radial Performance I am doing all the test you mention in a couple hours. I have a powerprobe so I can check grounds and powers at the pcm connector pins, also I do have a ford obdI scan tool, the code that I got is 212, something related to the pcm not getting a signal from the ignition module. Wish me luck!
@Drag Radial Performance I checked all the power and grounds you mentioned also the 5v ref , and everything check out ok, I even swap the pcm for another from a 95 cobra I own and still doesn't start. I check all fuses and the fusible link between the fuse box and the alternator and is good. I don't know what else to check. I can't get this thing to start
Thanks for this. I'm getting OBD code 18c and 95oc. I have power to both fuel pump and relay with key on. Cranks, doesnt start. I will try with cpu out like to did to at least know if its good or not
@@kevin_nagle not so good. Fuel pump, inertia, fuel pump relay all checked out good. I pulled the dizzy to change the TFI module and the oil pump shaft fell in pan...I left it for now lol
@@kevin_nagle thanks brother, I pulled info on dropping pan from ALLDATA. Remove fan shroud retainers, remove dipstick and tube assembly, drain oil, remove 2 bolts retaining steering gear to rest on frame, remove engine mount retaining bolts then raise engine, place 2x4 between mount and frame.. what gets me is it then says to "remove rear k-braces". Not sure if it means rear bolts on k-member?
@@HC-xs6ek Can you try to fish it out from the distributor hole with a telescoping magnet? If not, you basically need to get the engine up high enough to get your hand in the pan. Sometimes following written instructions will have you performing steps that aren't necessary
does this work for ignition cutout also i have a 95 gt convertible that shuts off while running, it started to shut down every once in a while now it does it every 5 mins
If you look thru my You Tube channel videos, you'll find how to test each component. But I can tell you that by your symptoms, you're probably headed for an ignition module. However, you need to test for spark coming out of the coil, and control/ground at the coil to see if it's getting the ground pulse signal from the module to fire the coil. If you have coil control, you don't have a module problem. But modules are famous for failing when warm. Check out my video on distributor module installation tips.
Nice video and explanation. I was wondering if I could pick your brain. My cranks and runs but it backfires out exhaust every now and then. My spark from the car is constant not pulsing at all. Can you help me thanks in advance
If your car runs, the spark can't be constant. Backfiring out the exhaust is likely an ignition misfire. Try new plugs, wires, cap, and rotor. And make sure your timing is set right. It should be at 10 BTDC with the SPOUT connector unplugged.
So I am trying to track down a demon in my car. It starts and idles fine but with any accessories on it sputters and the rpms jump rapidly. I have upgraded the alternator and all grounds and power. My volts at the power side of the coil is only 13.8 and will drop from 1 or 2 volts and everything in-between. The car idles just fine and rarely does this with no accessories on. Any ideas? Im stumped.
Voltage to the coil comes from the ignition switch. The contacts in that switch are high amperage, and can corrode. Also, the plastic clips that hold the wires into the ignition switch are brittle, and can break and cause nothing to hold the wires into the ignition switch except terminal friction. If you're sure the voltage is moving all over the place on a voltmeter, chances are it's moving worse than you think. The voltmeter can only read about once per 1/4 second. You might try throwing a new Motorcraft ignition switch at it. Or at least checking the switch contacts and wiring. Be careful not to break the brittle plastic connector though!
@@dragradialperformance3540 absolutely going to check the ignition switch on Monday. The only time i could get the volts to drop on the back of the alternator is when I unplugged the original harness power wires and just left the 4ga power wire that I installed. Then the bolt to the back of the alternator would drop voltage also. But with the harness power wires connected it shows steady 14.2 volts to the back of the alternator.
It depends. A computer can be a little bad, or totally junk. Different things can break inside, and have different symptoms. But keep in mind that you can have spark on a fox body (or TFI equipped Ford) without the computer even being installed. So if you give it a fuel source too, you could get it to run a little bit, even without a computer installed. If your capacitors are bad, have that fixed first. Then see how it runs, and go from there. Sometimes it's not just one problem, it's a stack of small problems.
No reason to guess. Test. After it won't run, see if you are missing spark, injector pulse, or fuel pressure. If you're looking for a crystal ball answer, it's probably the ignition module.
Could be a weak coil, too much spark plug gap, low fuel pressure at WOT, or a bad TFI module. Possibly bad computer capacitors as well. You have to pinpoint whether the problem is spark, fuel pressure, or something.
I have problem with my ford 1985 crowin Victoria I adjusted timing at 10° in idle as recommended The problem is when I connect Spout wire connector the engine goes misfire and bad running when I disconnect it the engine running smoothly
The spout connector being plugged in allows the PCM to control ignition timing. If you have 10 BTDC timing unplugged, and you plug spout in and it begins running badly, it suggests that the PCM is not commanding the correct timing or not firing the coil at all. While it's possible this could be a module, the PCM does sound suspect in this case. Try opening it up and inspecting the capacitors for leakage or corrosion.
So if I have an random ignition issue a couple times in a 20 min drive l could disconnect the spout and drive around to see if it happens. To eliminate the computer causing the issue. It runs fine. Then out of no where has a on/off ignition for a second then comes back. After a couple of these it will start running really rich and up/ down idle till it stalls. If I don’t cycle the ignition and just start it it’ll still run like crap and have 10afr. If I cycle the key it will be ok until it happens again. Multiple distributors/coils. Different tunes. Its pissing me off. Try shaking the key. Nothing. Good fuel pressure.
You also need to consider the ignition switch, the ignition module (the #1 suspect), the PIP sensor in the distributor, and the PCM. In particular, the capacitors in the PCM. If you have not already had your capacitors replaced, you should start there. They ALL need replacing at this point, if they haven't already been.
I have tried 2 oem tfi/distributors a couple aftermarket ones. Coils. Haven’t changed the pip but having changed different distributors it’s the same. I know tfi are a hit and miss but I’ve tried like 4. Is there an email I can send a vid to u. I’ll look at the switch next.
Could be anything. Maybe you installed the distributor wrong, or maybe that wasn't your issue in the first place. Try this. Turn the key on and listen. Does the fuel pump run for exactly 1 second? Or does it continue to run?
Unplug PCM. Hook an incandescent test light to the metal door jamb striker, or a good ground. Turn key on. Gently touch the tip of the test light to the Fuel Pump Relay pin in the PCM harness. This will "be the PCM" and ground the fuel pump relay, which will send power to run the pump. Doing this test will test every single part of the entire fuel system, except the PCM. If this works and the PCM can't do this, the PCM has an issue. Likely a capacitor issue.
I have a 95 mustang GT and the other day it shut off abruptly. I've been doing different tests and the fuel pump will not run and I have no spark. Would that be the computer gone bad?
I doubt it. The spark can occur even with the computer removed from the car. I have a video showing that. The pump not running means either a fuel pump relay problem, a dead pump, or the PCM is not grounding the relay. Or the inertia switch is popped. I would chase the fuel pump power issue by testing at the relay. The small wires on the relay are the control wires. There should be one that has power when the key is on, and the other should have ground when the pump is supposed to be running. The pump will quit running after 1 second unless the crankshaft is spinning.
@@dragradialperformance3540 I did some more tests, inertia switch is ok. I have spark when the SPOUT connector is unplugged. no power to the fuel injectors.
well my car is all kinds of messed up then...i have a 95 with the cobra EEC and i let it sit for a little over a week, came back to it, started and died. did this 3 times before quitting for good. i have no power to the fuel pump, i have no ignition or spark events, i have power at the coil, the ignition control module, CCRM, ignition at the column and at the PIP. the grounds are perfect, I'm just not getting any spark or fuel pump power. very strange for sitting only for a week😕
You need to grab a diagram, and start looking for where you should have power, then trace back and see where you lost it. I would test for power at the ignition module (key on), and also at the fuel pump relay. When you remove the relay, at least one of those 4 or 5 terminals should have 12v all the time.
@@Pontisteve i have the factory service manual, the factory electrical/vacuum manual and the Haynes manual for the 95 mustang...i have power at the ignition module. i have power at the coil. i have power at the PIP and CCRM. there is no flashing of the test light while cranking nor power going back to the fuel pump. my EEC is SCT chipped and the light on it is solid which means either the chip is dead or the EEC is dead I'm thinking
@@PANTYEATR1 Probably a dead EEC. Try removing the chip, and see if that fixes it. You might want to check for 12v at the PCM on pins 37 and 57, and check your 5V reference circuit at the TPS sensor to see if it has 5v or not. You can pull codes to see if the PCM is talking. Check power at the MAF. It's a shared power circuit with the EEC as I recall.
@@Pontisteve thank you for your input. i Will check these things in the morning. i did remove the chip and nothing changed. these EEC computers are 25+ years old now, so if it is dead, i wouldn't be upset. these cars weren't built to last forever right? 😏
@@PANTYEATR1 The 94-95 computers are usually surprisingly robust. But it happens. At least they're cheap. Before you replace it though, definitely check the 5v ref and power in on 37 and 57.
is it possible to add a second O2 sensor to a 91 F150 the dummies before I got it but I had her pipes on it and made it a true duals and it has a single o2 sensor yes I can put a crossover pipe on and I have contemplated but it would be easier if and I've done looked to add a second o2 sensor and wouldn't be too awful hard if the truck computer will allow it did you know if it would I'm not saying you're an oracle I'm just asking your opinion I hope you can help I'm spending my wheels over here physically looking and taking apart and going over the internet the difference made will be minuscule that miniscule amount is making it more efficient and that's what I want every ounce of performance that I can get out of it hell if I can add three more o2 sensors fine the more efficient the better
It is possible. There is a switch in the software, and cylinders are assigned to each bank. The problem will likely be that the pre-1994 truck PCMs aren't that supported. If you send me your 4 digit PCM catch code, I'll check into it.
I changed the starter in the solenoid I bypass the safety switch on the clutch pedal I change the ignition switch and I still can't get it to start can somebody help me please
You just have to turn the key to the start position and hold it there, while you use a voltmeter to check every point in the system to see where you lost power.
You have to determine if you have a PIP signal. You can test with with a test light backprobed into the top wire on the ignition module. Or for a real easy tests, crank the engine for two or three seconds. When you stop cranking, do you hear the fuel pump continue to run for an additional second? If the pump runs because you were cranking, then you have a PIP signal. If you have PIP and not spark, it's a bad module or a bad coil, or one of them is missing power.
@@Pontisteve ok thanks ill check that tomorrow, I did the test with the coil and test light to the neg side of coil plug and it didn't flicker like it it supposed to, both sides light the test light but no flicker
Thank you! This was very helpful and you were very good at explaining things :) My Bronco lives again! You've got a few other videos I'll be watching now too :)
Ha a whole list :D I just dropped in a new 347 BOSS stroker in my Bronco w/ MAF. All just a bunch of dumb lil things but the last was killin me where I had no spark. Come to find out my dumb ass didn't full seat the ignition coil connector. I did well enough that it ran then limped home. The FP did die too but after fixing it I could smell gas but no spark still. I got the lil spark checker for the ignition wire you showed and once I saw no spark, I then went to test that connector as you were showing and noticed it was sitting kinda further out than it should. DOH! :D Your videos were referenced a few times on some forums with good technical info about troubleshooting no starts. Your approach was the most logical and I love that you showed the spark w/o a PCM. That cleared up a lot of questions I had cuz I've never had an electrical no start issue with her in 20+ years. Pulled my first TunerPro RT logs tonight too! So I get to do my first test drive on my tune in the AM. I'd do it now but tow trucks are cheaper and easier to contact during the day just in case ;) I tried to get away without a tune but w/ the 30 Lbs injectors, I had no choice. But this should be fun and your videos on the tuning stuff should be interesting so I'll be watchin those soon too :)
@@remylebeau9344 That's great. It's really important to use the correct Ford Racing 30# injectors (I would suggest M-9593-BB302 and make sure they're not the fake chinese injectors). FYI, we sell those, and they are not easy to come by. It's equally important to enter in the proper Ford Racing injector characterization specs into the tune, correctly. I didn't think I had any tuning videos posted, although that is my line of work. Also important to punch in the correct engine size and to dial in the MAF correctly.
@@Pontisteve Yep I got the true Red ones :) I used Decipha's A9L2 BIN and set my injectors/CID proper I believe w/ the Ford/Bosch ref data I got from Ford. He's got a really nice Bin and def worth checkin out if you haven't heard of it. Heavy rebuild of the GUFx code with modern features and all sorts of magic. MAF is next to tune in and I'm building a custom ram air intake to work w/ my ram air hood. So I got all sorts of MAF fun ahead of me including relocating the ACT to the intake piping, not the manifold. This is one rabbit hole I avoided for years :D I don't think you have any "tuning" videos but I see you dinkin with some variables and doin shit I would "what does this button do?" :) Maybe I should call your shop and shoot some tunin shit with you sometime :D
I think a failed computer can make no spark it fail in away that feel power or group on SPOUT, if you was unplug the SPOUT plug this take computer out of loop, tho most fail computer the fuel pump will stay on all time with key on, given age of these cars it first thing I ask about or check now, they voltage reg inside computer fail. most time replacement cap fix it, I been meaning putting replace ones in my 94 and 96, the 85 getting stand alone EFI setup to replace 88 EFI setup in there now. Nice very nice video, I maybe would add fuel gauge with that setup with that and should really see what you have and don't very fast.
As long as the SPOUT connector is unplugged, the computer cannot cause a no-spark. However, I agree that if the SPOUT is plugged in, it is still possible to have the PCM cause spark issues. Just unplug SPOUT to verify it's not a PCM issue. You're right, the computer is a major failure point these days, and the fuel pump running all the time is a very likely indicator the PCM has failed. The problem isn't the voltage regulator though, it's the 3 capacitors inside. One of those capacitors feeds the voltage regulator. A physical inspection of the caps will show they're leaking or corroding. I have a rebuild kit in my Ebay store that has all 3 of the correct and original brand capacitors for Fox computers, currently $14.95 for all 3 caps. They should be installed by someone with a microscope and good soldering equipment. I don't think the 94-up have the capacitors. Or at least any they have are not failure prone.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge!....My car is a '95 GTS that I have owned for 19 years. It's been a great car and I take good care of it.... but with age, things are starting to happen.... While that layout of mine is a little different than the Foxbody, the principles are basically the same.....I'm working through your content so that I can better understand what the F%*$ is going on with my current ignition problems which have not happed before....code readers are a start, but they may not be enough.
The 94-95 cars are very similar to the fox bodies, with a few differences. They don't have nearly the PCM (capacitor) problems that the foxes have, thankfully. They added in a Constant Control Relay Module that basically was a box with the fuel pump, AC, and fan relays built into it. And they relocated the ignition module to the fenderwell, and mounted it to an aluminum heat sink. While the module is slightly different, it's largely the same TFI ignition system. They just started letting the PCM decide coil dwell time instead of having a preset coil dwell time built into the module. So it got a different module. Overall, all the same diagnostic approaches apply though. Buy yourself a $10 LED test light and a $10 incandescent test light from Amazon (something like ATD offers), and maybe a $2 box of sewing T-pins at Walmart (the ones that are about 1.75" long), and you'll have everything you need to troubleshoot ignition problems.
1992 5.0 no-start Mustang: Had spark, but thought it was weak. Flicker of test light at -12V coil terminal eased concerns about TFI & PIP problems. Could smell fuel at exhaust pipe indicating ok fuel pump & injectors but checked pressure at rail anyway: 42 psig w/pump running to 37-38 off. Fine. Cleaned slag off electrodes in distributor cap, scraped rotor edge to bright metal, resistance of coil wire to distributor was fine (~5000 ohms), spark plugs fine, set gap to specs. Could smell fuel when removing plugs, also indicating ok fuel delivery. Resistance on primary side of coil ok at ~0.4 ohms, but secondary resistance was 18,500 on digital meter and 20,500 on an analog. Cobbled up an air gap tester (1 inch notch in a board with 1/2" 'ears', tapped 1/4-20 and screwed in 2 pieces of 1/4" all-thread.) No spark until about 1/8" gap, and when it finally sparked steadily the gap turned out to be exactly the spark plug gap. That was direct from the coil terminal to negative post of battery in humid air with pointy electrodes. By the time that weak spark went through the coil wire, across the distributor, and down the plug wire into the compressed fuel-air mixture, there wasn't enough energy left to ignite the fire. Checked references and estimate the coil was putting out less than 5000 volts. New Blue Streak coil had same resistance for primary, 8650 on secondary, and threw a spark about an inch long. Pony gets up and goes like she's supposed to now!
While the plug gap may only be 50/1,000th's or so, that is much harder to jump when it's inside the cylinder, under pressure. Outside the cylinder, a good coil will easily jump 3/4 of an inch. To stress test the coil, hook an incandescent test light to a strut tower nut or chassis ground (not battery ground). Then unplug a wire, start the car, and see how far the spark will jump to the tip of the test light. Or use an adjustable inline spark tester like the Lisle one. A healthy spark will be a bluish purple, and will jump nearly an inch. A weak spark will be more yellow and only able to jump 1/2" or less.
If a spark is yellow and can barely jump 1/8 of an inch, it's got almost no hope of firing the cylinder. Glad you got it figured out!
What you described is almost identical to what I have going on. I think I’m gonna go get a new coil as well. Was wondering if the coil was the problem and you have solidified my suspicions. Thanks for sharing!
I think that's what is happening to my 1994 f150 with the I6.
You are 100 % correct. Chevy as well, in certain years used an Ignition Bypass System. Thanks for the video.
Here’s where I’m at on my 95 F150: truck will sometimes run with the SPOUT connector installed. When it doesn’t run I can unplug the SPOUT and it runs great. It’s intermittent, but when I have to unplug the SPOUT to get it started, I can then plug the SPOUT back in while it’s running and it stays running. Any ideas?
It sounds like a computer issue to me. The only thing plugging SPOUT in does is give the pcm the ability to modify the timing signal to reflect what the timing tables say, instead of being at a constant 10 BTDC.
This is great knowledge. Thanks for sharing .
Great video. Thanks for the explanation of PIP and Spout.
Ok thanks you kno what's weird tho.. is I put a hot jump wire to starter side of solenoid and normally the motor will spin over.nope no cigar just sparks at the solenoid.ane another strange thing I was checking tfi cord (it's plugs into module not talking bout module itself)! And it might or béen the 4th pin down can't remember but it was giving my test light a pulse..then I realize that the negative battery lead was off...WTF?!?!put it back on battery and then no pulse signal at all..🤯🤔..Mr drag radial ..sir .. anything you have to say I would love to hear it
Check voltage AT the starter, with the key on, and then again with the key in the START position. If you have 12v with the key in the START position at the starter, and your car isn't starting, then either your starter is locked up or your motor is. If you don't have 12v in the start position at the starter, then check the other end of the battery cable at the starter solenoid. One side of that solenoid is hot 12v all the time. The other side gets 12v when the S terminal gets 12v from the ignition switch.
I'm not sure what you're talking about with tfi cord, but not module.
@@dragradialperformance3540 there was a short.a splice in the hot coil wire all the way just before the MSD brain.ran new wirers with heat shrink.boom yahtzee.she fired.thank you so much for your intel.it was muich appreciaqted.love your videos btw.if you have time keep em coming.happy new year ..cheers
I am currently diagnosing a 'no spark' condition on a 1993 E350 5.8L with a fender-mounted Gray colored 'Push-Start' style TFI. I am using the TFI Worksheet which is located at TheRangerStation website. I have gone down the check-off list up to #9 which is the 'check Hall-Effect device' and this is where I have encountered a problem. I am not getting the correct 5.7V (getting only 1 volt) on the TFI SPOUT connection of the socket connector so the next step is to check the continuity of the computer (PCM) socket to the TFI socket and if that is OK then I will next do a voltage check directly on the PCM pins 36 (SPOUT) & 56 (PIP). A few years ago I replaced a leaky 10uf cap on the PCM board and now I will replace the 2 remaining suspect caps which are both 47uf. What I would like to obtain is a schematic of the PCM (F2TF-12A650-PB) so I can troubleshoot the PCM if needed (I am experienced with electronics repair). This E350 had been sitting for many years and wouldn't start (due to a bad fuel pump & oxidized starter contacts) but after repairing those and also replacing the plugs, cap & rotor I had it running good for awhile but then one day it wouldn't start again. Any helpful advice is greatly appreciated. Hopefully I will not need to buy a PCM for it. I no longer need this E350 so I do not want to put much more money and time into it. It is a Cube Van / Box Truck which are usually slow sellers and don't sell for much especially when they are 26 years old.
Great info
Hi great video! I have a question please, I have a 1988 5.0l and for some reason the vehicle isn’t holding timing. I set the timing, go out for a test drive, put the spout connector back in and everything seems fine. The vehicle starts up with no issues but then stumbles at idle and while driving the next day. I recheck the timing and it’s off.
I checked everything, from EGR, vacuum leaks, map, did a base idle reset etc.. still no luck. I have no idea why this is happening. At this point I’m thinking it’s a bad computer or Ignition Control Module because it’s not holding timing correctly. Any thoughts on what could be causing this problem? Thank you.
When you unplug the SPOUT connector, you are eliminating computer control of timing, and the ignition module instead fires the coil at a fixed timing value every time. That value is set by you, and should be 10 degrees BTDC.
Plugging SPOUT back in let's the computer control the timing, but as soon as you unplug it again, it should be rock solid at 10 degrees BTDC again.
Unless you are using your timing light wrong or it's defective, the only way the timing can chance with SPOUT unplugged is if the distributor bolt is loose, there's something defective inside the distributor (like a broken rotor or rotor plate), or your harmonic balancer is really bad.
The balancer has inner hub that bolts to the crank, and an outer hub that is presses onto the inner hub with a piece of rubber strip in between. When this rubber gets really old and bad, the outer hub can slip on the inner hub, moving the timing mark. Actual timing doesn't move, but the timing mark does. You can check the accuracy of the timing mark on the balancer using a brass piston stop in cyl #1 plug hole, and rotating the motor both directions until it hits the piston stop at about 10 degrees before and after TDC.
@@Pontisteve Thank you for responding.
I did a water pump change and the balancer was ok, I thought the same thing at first but I’m still having the same issue. I will recheck the rotor and plate again. I marked the balancer and set it at 10 degrees BTDC and plugged the spout connector back in and it seemed to drive fine. The crazy part is, the next day when the engine was cold the car had a rough idle and when I took it out for a ride, the engine started stumbling and had lack of power so I checked the timing again and it wasn’t at 10 degrees, it was jumping between 12 to 40, so this one has me confused lol. I did new plugs, wires and rotor cap. I didn’t change the Ignition Control Module so I was thinking it’s bad and not sending the correct signal out. Not sure why it’s not holding timing to be honest. I really don’t want to throw money at it without knowing the exact issue. But I will check it with a different timing light and go from there. Thank you for the advice I appreciate it.
@@sheba6779 You're only checking timing with the SPOUT connector removed, correct? Because with SPOUT plugged in, timing will be moving all over the place, especially at idle. Unplugged, it should be 10 BTDC at all times. Plugged in, idle is centered around 20 degrees BTDC in the computer's commands, but will move several degrees in either direction of that to perfect idle quality. The worse the car is running (for some other reason), the more timing the computer will add or subtract from that centerline of 20 at idle.
Ok.. what if you disconnected the computer and still no spark? Also.. the test light on the coil reads 12v but shuts off completely and doesn't pulse. Im pulling out whatever hair i have left. I put a new tremic tranny in her. Ran it twice and then just died! Ive replace tfi, coil and computer with a mega squirt. Then replaced the whole dizzy. Im at a loss. I really dont want to replace the whole wiring harness. I suck at wiring
Changing out your whole EFI goes beyond the scope of what I can cover here. But assuming it uses the stock TFI system, then we should be able to treat it like a stock car.
The PIP Sensor tells the TFI module when to fire both the coil and the injectors. So checking for Injector pulse during cranking tells you if you have a PIP signal or not. You can also test for PIP directly, at the ignition module. It's the top wire on the TFI connector. Backprobe it, and use an LED test light hooked to batt negative. Look for the light to blink as you crank it.
If you have PIP, you should have coil control (negative pulses from the TFI module to the negative side of the coil). You would also have a fuel pump that turns on for 1 second if you bump the starter a little.
If no spark, then either the module or the coil isn't working. Test for co control and coil negative to see if you have the pulse, like this video talks about. If you have coil control and no spark, and if the coil has 12v on the positive side, then the coil is bad.
If you don't have coil control, but do have PIP, then the TFI module is bad. The PCM doesn't even need to be installed for the spark tests to work.
My 87 LX 5.0L with 165k miles sat for about 3 years , I replaced heater tubes, TC cover and water pump and also all fuel injectors. When I cranked it, it ran horrible. Shut it off, Went to work, came back, and engine would not run this time (no spark). I figured out I had mixed up #2 & #3 wires on the distributor, so I corrected that, but I still have no spark. I don't understand how that could have created a no spark condition. Any ideas?
Try unplugging the SPOUT connector, and see if it runs that way. If so, the PCM is failing. Capacitors going bad is a common problem with them at this age, and can be replaced by someone skilled in that. Use this video to make sure you have 12v at the coil when the key is on, and that you have a pulsed coil ground signal (coil control).
Also test for injector pulse, to see if you have that. Double check your firing order, and make sure #1 is located on the correct cap terminal. You should not move plug wires around on this engine. And certainly check fuel pressure. If the car sat for years, the gas is bad and the tank has to be drained, new fuel filter, and probably new pump. Fuel pressure should be 39 PSI.
Ok, I have verified that there's 12V at the coil. I've also verified the coil is good by checking the primary and secondary's resistance. I bought an in-line spark checker... no spark coming from the coil, so it's either a bad TFI module or bad component in the distributor, since your video shows it should spark even with a bad pcm. Let me know if I've missed something. Note: I've never replaced the distributor in this car (only the cap), but the TFI module has been replaced 2 times with Motorcraft ones which corrected the no start condition both times.
@mrau92me crank the engine for a second or two, then stop cranking it. But leave the key in the run position. The fuel pump should run until 1 second after the engine comes to a stop. If it does, the PIP Sensor in the distributor is good. If you can't get the pump to run during cranking, then suspect the PIP Sensor. Otherwise, suspect the module.
Unfortunately, the old Ford Motorcraft ignition module was the only good one, and they quit making them and started outsourcing them from China a few years ago. You can now go thru several new modules trying to get one good new one.
@@dragradialperformance3540 Thanks. I'll try the pump running test. What do you know about the MSD branded TFI module? I'm wondering if it could be just a relabelled Motorcraft one.
@@mrau92me the original Motorcraft modules were embossed with large Motorcraft lettering in hard plastic. A few years back they quit making them, and now they look just like the cheap Chinese parts store modules, with Motorcraft stamped in ink on a flat surface. They're buying them now and reselling someone else's module. It's not nearly as good as the real Motorcraft ones.
I don't think it matters which brand you use. I believe they're all mediocre. It's now random luck which one you buy. I would think one from Standard Motor Products or NAPA would be a good bet, as these have been out for a long time, and hopefully they'll have worked out the obvious bugs.
Hi Steve, I came here after you said you uploaded this clip. I have all these tools except for the LED light. I have already used my Multi meter to check Primary and secondary resistance of the coil, and voltages. Then I used the Spark tester and got spark. Unless I missed it, I didn't see what the LED was for in your demo. Also, my main issue with my F150 is not no start, but poor power, sputtering, bucking, and detonation like timing is not getting adjusted right. I do get a PIP circuit fault as well as a Hego always lean and an insufficient EGR flow detected fault. As I have mentioned elsewhere, unless I am doing my testing wrong on the components I have checked so far, everything from TPS, IAC,, COIL, and TFI. The only possibly out of spec item I may have found is not 8-10 V while cranking and trying to read START voltage while cranking. Odd because truck starts and runs.
My next checks will be Resistance from distributor to engine ground, Distributor to TFI ground at pin 6, Hall effect at Spoutharness connector while cranking 5-7 v desired, If not, then disconnect ECA, redo test at pin 56, If not correct then check contuity of blue PIP wire to distributor from Pin 56, If correct, I am told to reconnect harness to a substitute processor and redo Hall effect check @ Spout harness. If still don't get 5-7 V on SPOUT or PIP wires during crank then Hall effect is probably shorted. Then I am told once I achieve a 5-7V If I still don't get pulsating signal at Negative coil, the TFI is bad provided all the above is good. Hopefully this all makes sense.
I also should say, I have not also checked other obvious or not so obvious components, Plugs and Wires, Fuel Pressures, Fuel Filters,, Injectors, MAF sensor, etc. Which I am now finally able to get to since our local dosage of rains have subsided I did do a temp test on inlet and outlets of the CATS and unless I have it backwards, this shows no blockage.
Insufficient EGR flow will be either a stuck closed EGR valve, no vacuum to valve at part throttle, or clogged passages. If the truck uses an EGR Valve Position Sensor, then it's all about the valve opening and not about actual flow measurements.
The HEGO always lean code is what you need to be chasing. It could be a bad O2 always reporting 0 volts. That would make the truck add a lot of fuel and run very rich, then the O2 would eventually fail and throw a code, and the truck would run better at that point because it would ignore the O2.
Or it could be that the truck really is lean. You need to do a fuel pressure test, with vacuum regulator unplugged, at idle and at 3,500 RPM. OTC has a nice, inexpensive fuel pressure gauge w/ Ford adapter.
Thanks, Steve. Is it possible that a bad TFI could cause the CCD/ ECC IV to set the timing off spec due to PIP and Spout issue, or not set it as it should under load and when the computer does all this to cause the EGR and HEGO code issues? Or are they separate in themselves? I did put a Mityvac to the EGR and it definitely is not stuck. I also did buy a Fuel Pressure tester last week. I will test pressure as you say, as soon as I can find that Vac regulator you mention.
The fuel pressure regulator is on the fuel rail, and has a vacuum line going to it. A bad TFI module wouldn't cause the EEC-IV computer to do anything wrong, it would just directly cause an ignition problem. You can see PIP and SPOUT signals with a scope.
I forgot to add: Thanks for your very helpful videos! It is hard to find detailed tutorials about the TFI
Thank you
1st Thank you for the time you took to make these videos. I see the text light connected to the rotor cap port where the coil wire normally goes. But the wire connected from the coil, where is the other end connected to?
The spark tester is inserted in the middle of the coil wire. So there is one wire going from the coil to the spark tester, and another going from the spark tester to the middle of the distributor cap. I believe I used an extra spark plug wire as the wire running from the spark tester to the cap.
Hello, I have a 1995 svt mustang cobra with the 5.0 engine, I have an crank no start condition, I have no spark at the coil, also I noticed the check engine light doesn't turn on at all not even on the second key position, I replaced the coil and icm and nothing still not spark, im thinking the pcm is bad , any suggestions on what test should I do ?
You're thinking correctly. The lack of a check engine light means either that bulb is bad, or that PCM is not "on". But before you can condemn the PCM as bad, you must first make sure that the PCM is getting all the powers and grounds it's supposed to have at the PCM connector, with the key on. Look for power on pin 1 all the time (keep alive memory), and on pins 37 and 57 (key-on 12v). Look for constant ground on pins 20, 40, and 60. And look for 5v on pin 26.
If the powers and grounds are there, you should have 5v coming out of the PCM on pin 26 (VREF). You should also have a check engine light come on, and a fuel pump prime for 1 second each time you turn the key on. You can also communicate with the 94-95 5.0's using an OBD1 scantool. If the powers and grounds are good and the PCM doesn't do these things, it's bad.
Generally, these PCMs are not known for failing, but anything is possible. I would be more likely to believe it's not on. You might want to start with checking all the fuses and any fusible links.
@Drag Radial Performance I am doing all the test you mention in a couple hours. I have a powerprobe so I can check grounds and powers at the pcm connector pins, also I do have a ford obdI scan tool, the code that I got is 212, something related to the pcm not getting a signal from the ignition module. Wish me luck!
@Drag Radial Performance I checked all the power and grounds you mentioned also the 5v ref , and everything check out ok, I even swap the pcm for another from a 95 cobra I own and still doesn't start. I check all fuses and the fusible link between the fuse box and the alternator and is good. I don't know what else to check. I can't get this thing to start
@@mr.selfdestruct1677 Code 212 is Loss of IDM input to EEC or SPOUT circuit grounded. Good luck!
Thanks for this. I'm getting OBD code 18c and 95oc. I have power to both fuel pump and relay with key on. Cranks, doesnt start. I will try with cpu out like to did to at least know if its good or not
how'd you make out?
@@kevin_nagle not so good. Fuel pump, inertia, fuel pump relay all checked out good. I pulled the dizzy to change the TFI module and the oil pump shaft fell in pan...I left it for now lol
@@HC-xs6ek OH MAN! When it rains it pours 😓
reach out to me if you want troubleshooting help
@@kevin_nagle thanks brother, I pulled info on dropping pan from ALLDATA. Remove fan shroud retainers, remove dipstick and tube assembly, drain oil, remove 2 bolts retaining steering gear to rest on frame, remove engine mount retaining bolts then raise engine, place 2x4 between mount and frame.. what gets me is it then says to "remove rear k-braces". Not sure if it means rear bolts on k-member?
@@HC-xs6ek Can you try to fish it out from the distributor hole with a telescoping magnet?
If not, you basically need to get the engine up high enough to get your hand in the pan.
Sometimes following written instructions will have you performing steps that aren't necessary
does this work for ignition cutout also i have a 95 gt convertible that shuts off while running, it started to shut down every once in a while now it does it every 5 mins
If you look thru my You Tube channel videos, you'll find how to test each component. But I can tell you that by your symptoms, you're probably headed for an ignition module. However, you need to test for spark coming out of the coil, and control/ground at the coil to see if it's getting the ground pulse signal from the module to fire the coil. If you have coil control, you don't have a module problem. But modules are famous for failing when warm. Check out my video on distributor module installation tips.
@@dragradialperformance3540 thank you
Nice video and explanation. I was wondering if I could pick your brain. My cranks and runs but it backfires out exhaust every now and then. My spark from the car is constant not pulsing at all. Can you help me thanks in advance
If your car runs, the spark can't be constant. Backfiring out the exhaust is likely an ignition misfire. Try new plugs, wires, cap, and rotor. And make sure your timing is set right. It should be at 10 BTDC with the SPOUT connector unplugged.
I need this video! Thank you!
So I am trying to track down a demon in my car. It starts and idles fine but with any accessories on it sputters and the rpms jump rapidly. I have upgraded the alternator and all grounds and power. My volts at the power side of the coil is only 13.8 and will drop from 1 or 2 volts and everything in-between. The car idles just fine and rarely does this with no accessories on. Any ideas? Im stumped.
Voltage to the coil comes from the ignition switch. The contacts in that switch are high amperage, and can corrode. Also, the plastic clips that hold the wires into the ignition switch are brittle, and can break and cause nothing to hold the wires into the ignition switch except terminal friction. If you're sure the voltage is moving all over the place on a voltmeter, chances are it's moving worse than you think. The voltmeter can only read about once per 1/4 second. You might try throwing a new Motorcraft ignition switch at it. Or at least checking the switch contacts and wiring. Be careful not to break the brittle plastic connector though!
@@dragradialperformance3540 absolutely going to check the ignition switch on Monday. The only time i could get the volts to drop on the back of the alternator is when I unplugged the original harness power wires and just left the 4ga power wire that I installed. Then the bolt to the back of the alternator would drop voltage also. But with the harness power wires connected it shows steady 14.2 volts to the back of the alternator.
Okay.So if the computer is bad will it still be able to run with starting fluid
It depends. A computer can be a little bad, or totally junk. Different things can break inside, and have different symptoms. But keep in mind that you can have spark on a fox body (or TFI equipped Ford) without the computer even being installed. So if you give it a fuel source too, you could get it to run a little bit, even without a computer installed. If your capacitors are bad, have that fixed first. Then see how it runs, and go from there. Sometimes it's not just one problem, it's a stack of small problems.
one of my 5.0 starts and runs fine but won’t start when hot or after a drive. what could that possibly be? any ideas?
No reason to guess. Test. After it won't run, see if you are missing spark, injector pulse, or fuel pressure. If you're looking for a crystal ball answer, it's probably the ignition module.
Mine breaks up at 5600-6000 rpm, what do you think?
Could be a weak coil, too much spark plug gap, low fuel pressure at WOT, or a bad TFI module. Possibly bad computer capacitors as well. You have to pinpoint whether the problem is spark, fuel pressure, or something.
Is this setup the same in NY 1989 Lincoln Town car? 5.0 Ford.
Yes, it should be. Any 5.0L that vintage, with the ignition module on the side of the distributor should be identical.
My coil has power on both sides of the coil. When I crank It doesn’t flicker on the ground side.
All I did was upgrade to the sve starter and it didn’t want to start up anymore. I’m lost.
Same here. Can’t find the answer.
I have problem with my ford 1985 crowin Victoria
I adjusted timing at 10° in idle as recommended
The problem is when I connect Spout wire connector the engine goes misfire and bad running when I disconnect it the engine running smoothly
The spout connector being plugged in allows the PCM to control ignition timing. If you have 10 BTDC timing unplugged, and you plug spout in and it begins running badly, it suggests that the PCM is not commanding the correct timing or not firing the coil at all. While it's possible this could be a module, the PCM does sound suspect in this case. Try opening it up and inspecting the capacitors for leakage or corrosion.
What signs have you encountered for a coil going bad? I have a 93 that drops cylinders and picks them back up when not under load. Any ideas? Ty
Generally, either a no-start, or a loss of power when you try to give it more than a little throttle.
@@dragradialperformance3540 Ty
So if I have an random ignition issue a couple times in a 20 min drive l could disconnect the spout and drive around to see if it happens. To eliminate the computer causing the issue. It runs fine. Then out of no where has a on/off ignition for a second then comes back. After a couple of these it will start running really rich and up/ down idle till it stalls. If I don’t cycle the ignition and just start it it’ll still run like crap and have 10afr. If I cycle the key it will be ok until it happens again. Multiple distributors/coils. Different tunes. Its pissing me off. Try shaking the key. Nothing. Good fuel pressure.
You also need to consider the ignition switch, the ignition module (the #1 suspect), the PIP sensor in the distributor, and the PCM. In particular, the capacitors in the PCM. If you have not already had your capacitors replaced, you should start there. They ALL need replacing at this point, if they haven't already been.
I have tried 2 oem tfi/distributors a couple aftermarket ones. Coils. Haven’t changed the pip but having changed different distributors it’s the same. I know tfi are a hit and miss but I’ve tried like 4. Is there an email I can send a vid to u. I’ll look at the switch next.
@@Dm-cr5lk Misfires can come from the PCM too. Check capacitors.
Hi I have a Mustang 1990 switched the distributor and coil and not start why?
Could be anything. Maybe you installed the distributor wrong, or maybe that wasn't your issue in the first place. Try this. Turn the key on and listen. Does the fuel pump run for exactly 1 second? Or does it continue to run?
@@dragradialperformance3540 mine keeps running. Doesn't shut off
@@harryheebs690sounds like an ignition switch problem.
Mine not starting bc fuel pump not priming I replaced relay and pump still nothing. Ordered a new ecm
Unplug PCM. Hook an incandescent test light to the metal door jamb striker, or a good ground. Turn key on. Gently touch the tip of the test light to the Fuel Pump Relay pin in the PCM harness. This will "be the PCM" and ground the fuel pump relay, which will send power to run the pump.
Doing this test will test every single part of the entire fuel system, except the PCM. If this works and the PCM can't do this, the PCM has an issue. Likely a capacitor issue.
I have a 95 mustang GT and the other day it shut off abruptly. I've been doing different tests and the fuel pump will not run and I have no spark. Would that be the computer gone bad?
I doubt it. The spark can occur even with the computer removed from the car. I have a video showing that. The pump not running means either a fuel pump relay problem, a dead pump, or the PCM is not grounding the relay. Or the inertia switch is popped. I would chase the fuel pump power issue by testing at the relay. The small wires on the relay are the control wires. There should be one that has power when the key is on, and the other should have ground when the pump is supposed to be running. The pump will quit running after 1 second unless the crankshaft is spinning.
@@dragradialperformance3540 I did some more tests, inertia switch is ok. I have spark when the SPOUT connector is unplugged. no power to the fuel injectors.
@@lukebronstein9617did you ever figure this out
well my car is all kinds of messed up then...i have a 95 with the cobra EEC and i let it sit for a little over a week, came back to it, started and died. did this 3 times before quitting for good. i have no power to the fuel pump, i have no ignition or spark events, i have power at the coil, the ignition control module, CCRM, ignition at the column and at the PIP. the grounds are perfect, I'm just not getting any spark or fuel pump power. very strange for sitting only for a week😕
You need to grab a diagram, and start looking for where you should have power, then trace back and see where you lost it. I would test for power at the ignition module (key on), and also at the fuel pump relay. When you remove the relay, at least one of those 4 or 5 terminals should have 12v all the time.
@@Pontisteve i have the factory service manual, the factory electrical/vacuum manual and the Haynes manual for the 95 mustang...i have power at the ignition module. i have power at the coil. i have power at the PIP and CCRM. there is no flashing of the test light while cranking nor power going back to the fuel pump. my EEC is SCT chipped and the light on it is solid which means either the chip is dead or the EEC is dead I'm thinking
@@PANTYEATR1 Probably a dead EEC. Try removing the chip, and see if that fixes it. You might want to check for 12v at the PCM on pins 37 and 57, and check your 5V reference circuit at the TPS sensor to see if it has 5v or not. You can pull codes to see if the PCM is talking. Check power at the MAF. It's a shared power circuit with the EEC as I recall.
@@Pontisteve thank you for your input. i Will check these things in the morning. i did remove the chip and nothing changed. these EEC computers are 25+ years old now, so if it is dead, i wouldn't be upset. these cars weren't built to last forever right? 😏
@@PANTYEATR1 The 94-95 computers are usually surprisingly robust. But it happens. At least they're cheap. Before you replace it though, definitely check the 5v ref and power in on 37 and 57.
is it possible to add a second O2 sensor to a 91 F150 the dummies before I got it but I had her pipes on it and made it a true duals and it has a single o2 sensor yes I can put a crossover pipe on and I have contemplated but it would be easier if and I've done looked to add a second o2 sensor and wouldn't be too awful hard if the truck computer will allow it did you know if it would I'm not saying you're an oracle I'm just asking your opinion I hope you can help I'm spending my wheels over here physically looking and taking apart and going over the internet the difference made will be minuscule that miniscule amount is making it more efficient and that's what I want every ounce of performance that I can get out of it hell if I can add three more o2 sensors fine the more efficient the better
It is possible. There is a switch in the software, and cylinders are assigned to each bank. The problem will likely be that the pre-1994 truck PCMs aren't that supported. If you send me your 4 digit PCM catch code, I'll check into it.
very good informative vids thank you
I changed the starter in the solenoid I bypass the safety switch on the clutch pedal I change the ignition switch and I still can't get it to start can somebody help me please
You just have to turn the key to the start position and hold it there, while you use a voltmeter to check every point in the system to see where you lost power.
Awesome video man !!!!
I got a 95 e250 with a 5.8 it cranks no start no Fire from coil put a new icm in and nothing
Diagnose it the same way as these Mustangs. See my other testing videos too.
@@Pontisteve I got power to 1 side of coil the the distributor side I change the fuse link and everything. New coil new pump new icm crank no start
View your full video.
Excellent
I'm having trouble diagnosing my 5.0 for no spark
You have to determine if you have a PIP signal. You can test with with a test light backprobed into the top wire on the ignition module.
Or for a real easy tests, crank the engine for two or three seconds. When you stop cranking, do you hear the fuel pump continue to run for an additional second? If the pump runs because you were cranking, then you have a PIP signal. If you have PIP and not spark, it's a bad module or a bad coil, or one of them is missing power.
@@Pontisteve ok thanks ill check that tomorrow, I did the test with the coil and test light to the neg side of coil plug and it didn't flicker like it it supposed to, both sides light the test light but no flicker
Thank you! This was very helpful and you were very good at explaining things :) My Bronco lives again! You've got a few other videos I'll be watching now too :)
Well congrats! What was wrong with your car, and what test exposed it?
Ha a whole list :D I just dropped in a new 347 BOSS stroker in my Bronco w/ MAF. All just a bunch of dumb lil things but the last was killin me where I had no spark. Come to find out my dumb ass didn't full seat the ignition coil connector. I did well enough that it ran then limped home. The FP did die too but after fixing it I could smell gas but no spark still.
I got the lil spark checker for the ignition wire you showed and once I saw no spark, I then went to test that connector as you were showing and noticed it was sitting kinda further out than it should. DOH! :D Your videos were referenced a few times on some forums with good technical info about troubleshooting no starts. Your approach was the most logical and I love that you showed the spark w/o a PCM. That cleared up a lot of questions I had cuz I've never had an electrical no start issue with her in 20+ years.
Pulled my first TunerPro RT logs tonight too! So I get to do my first test drive on my tune in the AM. I'd do it now but tow trucks are cheaper and easier to contact during the day just in case ;)
I tried to get away without a tune but w/ the 30 Lbs injectors, I had no choice. But this should be fun and your videos on the tuning stuff should be interesting so I'll be watchin those soon too :)
@@remylebeau9344 That's great. It's really important to use the correct Ford Racing 30# injectors (I would suggest M-9593-BB302 and make sure they're not the fake chinese injectors). FYI, we sell those, and they are not easy to come by.
It's equally important to enter in the proper Ford Racing injector characterization specs into the tune, correctly. I didn't think I had any tuning videos posted, although that is my line of work. Also important to punch in the correct engine size and to dial in the MAF correctly.
@@Pontisteve Yep I got the true Red ones :) I used Decipha's A9L2 BIN and set my injectors/CID proper I believe w/ the Ford/Bosch ref data I got from Ford. He's got a really nice Bin and def worth checkin out if you haven't heard of it. Heavy rebuild of the GUFx code with modern features and all sorts of magic.
MAF is next to tune in and I'm building a custom ram air intake to work w/ my ram air hood. So I got all sorts of MAF fun ahead of me including relocating the ACT to the intake piping, not the manifold.
This is one rabbit hole I avoided for years :D
I don't think you have any "tuning" videos but I see you dinkin with some variables and doin shit I would "what does this button do?" :)
Maybe I should call your shop and shoot some tunin shit with you sometime :D
@@Pontisteve I have those injectors :) I've dialed in my MAF values pretty good and holy crap does this thing pull now
I have an 89 mustang no crank no start
I think a failed computer can make no spark it fail in away that feel power or group on SPOUT, if you was unplug the SPOUT plug this take computer out of loop, tho most fail computer the fuel pump will stay on all time with key on, given age of these cars it first thing I ask about or check now, they voltage reg inside computer fail. most time replacement cap fix it, I been meaning putting replace ones in my 94 and 96, the 85 getting stand alone EFI setup to replace 88 EFI setup in there now. Nice very nice video, I maybe would add fuel gauge with that setup with that and should really see what you have and don't very fast.
As long as the SPOUT connector is unplugged, the computer cannot cause a no-spark. However, I agree that if the SPOUT is plugged in, it is still possible to have the PCM cause spark issues. Just unplug SPOUT to verify it's not a PCM issue.
You're right, the computer is a major failure point these days, and the fuel pump running all the time is a very likely indicator the PCM has failed. The problem isn't the voltage regulator though, it's the 3 capacitors inside. One of those capacitors feeds the voltage regulator. A physical inspection of the caps will show they're leaking or corroding. I have a rebuild kit in my Ebay store that has all 3 of the correct and original brand capacitors for Fox computers, currently $14.95 for all 3 caps. They should be installed by someone with a microscope and good soldering equipment.
I don't think the 94-up have the capacitors. Or at least any they have are not failure prone.
I've done all of the tests on my 89 Fox body and still no spark by any chance do you have a phone number I could call you at and talk to you directly
You can find us on Facebook - Drag Radial Performance
I have done all the tests and still no spark from the coil....any thing else you think I can check?...appreciate the help...
dope💪
Thank you for sharing your knowledge!....My car is a '95 GTS that I have owned for 19 years. It's been a great car and I take good care of it.... but with age, things are starting to happen.... While that layout of mine is a little different than the Foxbody, the principles are basically the same.....I'm working through your content so that I can better understand what the F%*$ is going on with my current ignition problems which have not happed before....code readers are a start, but they may not be enough.
The 94-95 cars are very similar to the fox bodies, with a few differences. They don't have nearly the PCM (capacitor) problems that the foxes have, thankfully. They added in a Constant Control Relay Module that basically was a box with the fuel pump, AC, and fan relays built into it. And they relocated the ignition module to the fenderwell, and mounted it to an aluminum heat sink.
While the module is slightly different, it's largely the same TFI ignition system. They just started letting the PCM decide coil dwell time instead of having a preset coil dwell time built into the module. So it got a different module. Overall, all the same diagnostic approaches apply though. Buy yourself a $10 LED test light and a $10 incandescent test light from Amazon (something like ATD offers), and maybe a $2 box of sewing T-pins at Walmart (the ones that are about 1.75" long), and you'll have everything you need to troubleshoot ignition problems.
@@dragradialperformance3540 Subscribed and thank you.
Hey I hope this msg finds you drag radial. Annie 89 mustang