We had an electrician / bathroom fitter in to do our bathroom 6 years ago and I can honestly say as a DIY electrician the wiring for the spots was absolutely appalling - single cores exposed and junctions made without any kind of enclosures and insulation tape used rod the earth wires. It’s surprising how many rogue electricians you get these days and then people instantly blame the DIYer for being responsible
I wish I was a kitchen fitter the things I would tell people I could do better then a qualified tradesman would astounded them. But I'll have to stick with being a Electrician and having to go around fixing kitchen fitter electrical cockups. 😂😂😂
That trumps my experiences. All registered professional recommended electricians I've used have been sloppy with terminations working loose, exposed wires, etc, but none as bad as you describe... hang on, just remembered a good one from 1989 and a really bad error from 2018. Always have to check their work and, usually, have to fix it
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 Correct. But personally I wouldn't want to mix electricity and water at low voltage, may be safe, but it will soon look a horrible gungy mess
Thanks for this video and the clear explanation. I have the exact same lights in my bathroom, the IP65. I've been struggling trying to get the bulb out, but no luck. I ended up giving up as 2 needs changing. What l didn't realise is that l need to change the whole unit. I can't thank you enough. Finally, I'll get those lights changed. Thanks alot
Hi I have two blown Saxby 73787 ShieldECO IP65 spot lights, I have bought replacements from amazon, they have the whole unit and black part, can I just swap these out without turning off all the power to the flat, they are push connectors. Thank you.
Light Bulb is also the name of what only electricians call a lamp. The word light is put in front so electricians don't get confused. Everyone else is happy to just say bulb as they know what they mean. If you go in many diy shops etc they are labelled as bulbs as are many of the packs that the said bulbs come in.
@@6panel300 That’s a rather snotty reply, winkle. Many things have an incorrect generic name… but that doesn’t make those names correct. It was a light-hearted response to someone who has made video on an electrical subject. You, are most definitely the type of person I get caught behind in an electrical wholesaler. Asking for ‘double plugs’, ‘wire’, ‘fuses’ and ‘bulbs’. That little knowing look you get from your server, is the look that you shouldn’t be there and will get charged through the nose for your naivity Sniggers all round from trained people who you are holding up in the queue. Please don’t ever buy a ‘fuse box’ you’ll bring the house down. Stick to DIY, son and lighten up.
Years ago in the factory where I worked, I took a blunt drill to our machine shop and asked the turner if he could sharpen it for me. He said he couldn't and made a big deal about it saying he could grind it, telling me that you sharpen a pencil and grind a drill. Not long after the same fella came to me for a bulb for his lathe light. You can imagine the fun I had putting him straight. Initially I told him to go to a garden centre for his bulb.
Hi buddy, thank you for the video - very informative. I already bought sealed ip65 fire rated units, but I have a question. I know that they should be covered in the attic with a plastic cap and then isolation on top of them. I obviously have the wrong lights which are leaking steam into the attic, but will these stop that completely? I left the cap on top of one the spotlight yesterday and today when lifted it was covered in water all inside the cap. Will this also be happening with sealed units? should I installed it differently to prevent moisture from collecting inside the cap?
@TheDiligentDIYer1759 with the new lights I haven't seen any moisture after leaving the cup on, which means they are already sealed quite nicely. Thank you for the reply 🙏
Hi I have two blown Saxby 73787 ShieldECO IP65 spot lights, I have bought replacements from amazon, they have the whole unit and black part, can I just swap these out without turning off all the power to the flat, they are push connectors. Thanks you.
@@TheOvenCook just for England and Wales. I hear Scotland are going mineral insulated of all things. Northern Ireland looks like it'll take up the same LSOH regs as Rep of Ireland.
I've got these exact lights in my living room (ip65) 4 of them, however when switched on the last light on the run takes two to three seconds later to light up than the others, hopefully someone can explain what's going on.
That sounds like a fault with the light unit rather than the wiring. If you’ve still got the receipt I’d try take it back and get another. Thanks for watching!
As an electrician, I'd like to say well done for covering a lot of stuff that even other electricians get wrong! Only thing that you maybe could have added is the issue of insulation over downlights, which used to cause any number of melted fittings in the past. It's mostly solved now with modern LED fittings that are built to allow insulation directly over the top, but not all are so something to check. The fire rating thing is not quite as simple as having a habitable room above either, since its related to the fire resistance of the ceiling you are fitting to - and in most houses the downstairs ceiling is not considered a fire barrier. However, it's always safer as you say to fit fire rated ones, and the vast majority are now, so no real reason not to use them these days.
The earth or CPC carries current under fault conditions. One of the first tests carried out when electrical testing , is continuity of the CPC. So never cut it off always connect it. In the end it's your house and you do as you see fit. But if you want to sell it, the electrical system must comply with building regs and BS7671
George, you mentioned all downlights in ceiling above shower or bath should be a minimum of IP44. However zone 1 and 2 heights are 2.25m which is lower than most ceilings of 2.4m. which means the lights are out of zones, therefore do not need to be IP rated.
True, but most baths and showers aren’t floor level, they are usually raised off the floor, so you’ll lose some height to that anyway, which could easily be 15mm. So safest to just use IP rated anyway, in my opinion.
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 It wasn't your opinion that you were stating in your blog, you stated the zones tell you to use IP44 or IP65 which is not correct. So your 15mm will bring you closer to ceiling but that still gives you 135mm away from the requirement to use IP rated lights.
Good Video, the big question is should people be attempting electrical work if not competent, When as a competent and registered electrician I conduct an EICR, I absolutely dread seeing down lights within the property because I know through experience there is a 90% chance they will of been installed but someone who isn't trained or competent, It works so it must be safe, 😅
Reece I thought DIYers are not allowed to touch any electrical work , as how can they issue a minor works certificate or EIC 🤷♂️ but everybody just fits there own stuff. I darent touch any electrical things now (although I am confident) don’t get me wrong I wouldn’t know a good Zs or PFC if it smacked me in the face, but I could wire up a light fitting. But as said I’ve always been told not allowed to touch so there fore I pay an electrician to do everything, even changing a socket as same again I could do it myself but I can not test or issue a certifiacate. Annoyingly I have employed a registered spark in the past that was terrible with the job and never gave any paperwork and he was a registered qualified electrician 🤔
King Of the trowel, Diyers can do electrical work and no certification is required providing the circuit hasn't been altered, Bit of a grey area that one. Generally considered like for like replacements or simple repairs. Part P or Minor works can still be carried out providing certification is issued, as I understand the local council can arrange this for a fee, Obviously a registered Spark can self certify so saves that hassle, But you can't police anyone in there own home and people who want to will do.
@@reecehorner3736 yea that’s what I thought, so am I right I thinking that an eicr would test and check everything anyway as in for eg I’ve fitted my own decorative light fitting replacements and socket fronts , even tho I don’t have any minor works certificates will it all be checked in an eicr
You should dwell on the item more - not just for a split second! I had to keep on pausing the video. For next time. I was trying to determine what type of spotlight I had, and also if I could change the bulb. You did not state this until the very end i.e. sealed units like the V50.
I think it depends on the terminations the light comes with, if only a tiny block, then I absolutely agree, but if they have substantial terminals for two cables, I think it would be unnecessary. Thanks for watching!
On a simple job like this, it is fine to do your own electrical work. If you watch video tutorials such as this one, and read up on it, I don't see why you should have to hire an unreliable sparky who may or may not do the work to a good standard.
Hi George - what's the best way to reach you. I'm the founder of OpenQuote and I'd love to chat. (We're building software to try and improve the process of providing job information to tradesmen). Happy to explain more.
if you are really are a time served spark, as i was.then you would never call a lamp a bulb. that is the talk of a diy spark for me. apart from that your video was good.
Clearly not a spark, and you should make that clear because there are a few things badly explained (and wrong) that could be dangerous followed. CPC = Circuit Protective Conductor so it DOES carry current under a fault or leakage. Also. what you're saying at 2.43 is nonsense. It's not a "much higher risk of shock" and if you knew why, you wouldn't be saying this.
Thanks buddy for all the videos. I really enjoy the tips and advice. Very thorough and eloquently explained.
Thanks again.
Glad you like them! Thanks for watching!
Another great video George. Concise and simply explained without excessive waffle!
Glad you enjoyed it!
We had an electrician / bathroom fitter in to do our bathroom 6 years ago and I can honestly say as a DIY electrician the wiring for the spots was absolutely appalling - single cores exposed and junctions made without any kind of enclosures and insulation tape used rod the earth wires. It’s surprising how many rogue electricians you get these days and then people instantly blame the DIYer for being responsible
Yep you are absolutely right, plenty of ‘professionals’ out there making the same mistakes
Why didn't you do it yourself?
I wish I was a kitchen fitter the things I would tell people I could do better then a qualified tradesman would astounded them. But I'll have to stick with being a Electrician and having to go around fixing kitchen fitter electrical cockups. 😂😂😂
That trumps my experiences. All registered professional recommended electricians I've used have been sloppy with terminations working loose, exposed wires, etc, but none as bad as you describe... hang on, just remembered a good one from 1989 and a really bad error from 2018. Always have to check their work and, usually, have to fix it
Does the downlight for bathrooms need to be just fire rated or ip65 rated?
Thanks for this... not sure about our bathroom downlights - they're all 12v but not IP rated in any way.
Thanks for watching! If they’re 12V, i dont think the IP rating rules apply
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 Correct. But personally I wouldn't want to mix electricity and water at low voltage, may be safe, but it will soon look a horrible gungy mess
Thanks for this video and the clear explanation. I have the exact same lights in my bathroom, the IP65. I've been struggling trying to get the bulb out, but no luck. I ended up giving up as 2 needs changing. What l didn't realise is that l need to change the whole unit. I can't thank you enough. Finally, I'll get those lights changed. Thanks alot
Glad it helped! Thanks for watching!
Hi I have two blown Saxby 73787 ShieldECO IP65 spot lights, I have bought replacements from amazon, they have the whole unit and black part, can I just swap these out without turning off all the power to the flat, they are push connectors. Thank you.
Excellent video.
Always remember; Lamps glow, bulbs grow. 😊
Yes! Thank you!
Light Bulb is also the name of what only electricians call a lamp. The word light is put in front so electricians don't get confused. Everyone else is happy to just say bulb as they know what they mean. If you go in many diy shops etc they are labelled as bulbs as are many of the packs that the said bulbs come in.
@@6panel300 That’s a rather snotty reply, winkle. Many things have an incorrect generic name… but that doesn’t make those names correct. It was a light-hearted response to someone who has made video on an electrical subject. You, are most definitely the type of person I get caught behind in an electrical wholesaler. Asking for ‘double plugs’, ‘wire’, ‘fuses’ and ‘bulbs’.
That little knowing look you get from your server, is the look that you shouldn’t be there and will get charged through the nose for your naivity Sniggers all round from trained people who you are holding up in the queue. Please don’t ever buy a ‘fuse box’ you’ll bring the house down. Stick to DIY, son and lighten up.
Years ago in the factory where I worked, I took a blunt drill to our machine shop and asked the turner if he could sharpen it for me. He said he couldn't and made a big deal about it saying he could grind it, telling me that you sharpen a pencil and grind a drill.
Not long after the same fella came to me for a bulb for his lathe light. You can imagine the fun I had putting him straight. Initially I told him to go to a garden centre for his bulb.
As always a very useful explaination, thanks for taking the time; without knowing you will be saving people much grief.
Thank you!!
Hi buddy, thank you for the video - very informative. I already bought sealed ip65 fire rated units, but I have a question. I know that they should be covered in the attic with a plastic cap and then isolation on top of them. I obviously have the wrong lights which are leaking steam into the attic, but will these stop that completely? I left the cap on top of one the spotlight yesterday and today when lifted it was covered in water all inside the cap. Will this also be happening with sealed units? should I installed it differently to prevent moisture from collecting inside the cap?
You need a good seal between the light and the plaster board, that sounds like the issue. Plenty of loft insulation should help too
Thanks for watching!
@TheDiligentDIYer1759 with the new lights I haven't seen any moisture after leaving the cup on, which means they are already sealed quite nicely. Thank you for the reply 🙏
Hi I have two blown Saxby 73787 ShieldECO IP65 spot lights, I have bought replacements from amazon, they have the whole unit and black part, can I just swap these out without turning off all the power to the flat, they are push connectors. Thanks you.
I can’t say without seeing it really. I would advise against trying to change fittings without turning off the power. Thanks for watching!
Good channel buddy. Hope you keep making vids!
Thanks, will do!
Great video. Worth pointing out that the CPC is generally always single insulated.
Good point! Thanks for watching!
Not for long, thankfully! New regs next year
@@TheOvenCook just for England and Wales. I hear Scotland are going mineral insulated of all things. Northern Ireland looks like it'll take up the same LSOH regs as Rep of Ireland.
I've got these exact lights in my living room (ip65) 4 of them, however when switched on the last light on the run takes two to three seconds later to light up than the others, hopefully someone can explain what's going on.
That sounds like a fault with the light unit rather than the wiring. If you’ve still got the receipt I’d try take it back and get another. Thanks for watching!
As an electrician, I'd like to say well done for covering a lot of stuff that even other electricians get wrong!
Only thing that you maybe could have added is the issue of insulation over downlights, which used to cause any number of melted fittings in the past. It's mostly solved now with modern LED fittings that are built to allow insulation directly over the top, but not all are so something to check.
The fire rating thing is not quite as simple as having a habitable room above either, since its related to the fire resistance of the ceiling you are fitting to - and in most houses the downstairs ceiling is not considered a fire barrier. However, it's always safer as you say to fit fire rated ones, and the vast majority are now, so no real reason not to use them these days.
Thank you, very appreciated from a professional! Thanks for the info on the fire ratings
And the building standards are different in Scotland.
The earth or CPC carries current under fault conditions. One of the first tests carried out when electrical testing , is continuity of the CPC. So never cut it off always connect it. In the end it's your house and you do as you see fit. But if you want to sell it, the electrical system must comply with building regs and BS7671
Yes good point. Thanks for watching
Thank you mr beckham👍
Not sure I get the joke haha, but thanks for watching!
George, you mentioned all downlights in ceiling above shower or bath should be a minimum of IP44. However zone 1 and 2 heights are 2.25m which is lower than most ceilings of 2.4m. which means the lights are out of zones, therefore do not need to be IP rated.
True, but most baths and showers aren’t floor level, they are usually raised off the floor, so you’ll lose some height to that anyway, which could easily be 15mm. So safest to just use IP rated anyway, in my opinion.
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 It wasn't your opinion that you were stating in your blog, you stated the zones tell you to use IP44 or IP65 which is not correct. So your 15mm will bring you closer to ceiling but that still gives you 135mm away from the requirement to use IP rated lights.
IPX4
@@jameshansing5396 Do you know what IPX4 is? Ok
@@tellitasyouseeit7555 yeh I do, hence it's IPX4
Good Video, the big question is should people be attempting electrical work if not competent, When as a competent and registered electrician I conduct an EICR, I absolutely dread seeing down lights within the property because I know through experience there is a 90% chance they will of been installed but someone who isn't trained or competent, It works so it must be safe, 😅
Thanks for watching!
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 It's great you put this out there, I appreciate you are showing this in simple terms
Reece I thought DIYers are not allowed to touch any electrical work , as how can they issue a minor works certificate or EIC 🤷♂️ but everybody just fits there own stuff. I darent touch any electrical things now (although I am confident) don’t get me wrong I wouldn’t know a good Zs or PFC if it smacked me in the face, but I could wire up a light fitting. But as said I’ve always been told not allowed to touch so there fore I pay an electrician to do everything, even changing a socket as same again I could do it myself but I can not test or issue a certifiacate. Annoyingly I have employed a registered spark in the past that was terrible with the job and never gave any paperwork and he was a registered qualified electrician 🤔
King Of the trowel, Diyers can do electrical work and no certification is required providing the circuit hasn't been altered, Bit of a grey area that one. Generally considered like for like replacements or simple repairs. Part P or Minor works can still be carried out providing certification is issued, as I understand the local council can arrange this for a fee, Obviously a registered Spark can self certify so saves that hassle, But you can't police anyone in there own home and people who want to will do.
@@reecehorner3736 yea that’s what I thought, so am I right I thinking that an eicr would test and check everything anyway as in for eg I’ve fitted my own decorative light fitting replacements and socket fronts , even tho I don’t have any minor works certificates will it all be checked in an eicr
Great channel glad I found it
Welcome aboard!
Thanks for your explanation
Thanks for watching!
so is a IP65 ok over a shower
Yep it is
I'm a retired spark those push fit down lights i find are absolute rubbish the wires won't stay in what is wrong with the screw terminals or wago type
I haven’t had any problems with these, but I do agree they aren’t a good terminal type. Thanks for watching!
Push em in properly then, maybe that's why you're retired. Never had an issue with push fit...
That diagram is incorrect... There is no zone around a hand basin
Whether there is it isn’t a zone around a hand basin, it would still be a silly place to put anything electrical that wasn’t IP rated
shaver sockets are often put within that fictional area
I wonder how many building control offices have ever been notified about work in zones one or two? 😂
Hahaha good point, I doubt it is frequent
I use cans either remodeling or new construction. These new lights are dangerous and the bulbs aren't replaceable
Thanks for watching
You should dwell on the item more - not just for a split second! I had to keep on pausing the video. For next time. I was trying to determine what type of spotlight I had, and also if I could change the bulb. You did not state this until the very end i.e. sealed units like the V50.
Thanks for the tip!
Much better to connect twin and earth into a joint box and wire downlights in heat proof flex
I think it depends on the terminations the light comes with, if only a tiny block, then I absolutely agree, but if they have substantial terminals for two cables, I think it would be unnecessary. Thanks for watching!
Ip DOES NOT STAND FOR INGRESS PROTECTION.
IT STANDS FOR “INTERNATIONAL PROTECTION”.
In the context of water protection, it is ingress protection
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 yes this is correct in Europe and uk
Please stop encouraging DIYers to carry out their own electrical work.
Remember to like and subscribe!
Nah let em fuck it up so we can charge more for an emergency callout and repair when it goes wrong. f*ck em! ;)
Please stop encouraging humans to do anything on their own
On a simple job like this, it is fine to do your own electrical work. If you watch video tutorials such as this one, and read up on it, I don't see why you should have to hire an unreliable sparky who may or may not do the work to a good standard.
Hi George - what's the best way to reach you. I'm the founder of OpenQuote and I'd love to chat. (We're building software to try and improve the process of providing job information to tradesmen). Happy to explain more.
Hi, sorry for the delay, I needed to create an email address. I've added it to my bio. thediligentdiyer@outlook.com
if you are really are a time served spark, as i was.then you would never call a lamp a bulb. that is the talk of a diy spark for me. apart from that your video was good.
Big up yourself
Thank you. I’m not a spark, just an over enthusiastic DIYer
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 which can be dangerous posting videos with incorrect information.
Clearly not a spark, and you should make that clear because there are a few things badly explained (and wrong) that could be dangerous followed. CPC = Circuit Protective Conductor so it DOES carry current under a fault or leakage. Also. what you're saying at 2.43 is nonsense. It's not a "much higher risk of shock" and if you knew why, you wouldn't be saying this.