I had a walk round a new build estate last Sunday, spotted so many faults, even the show home had issues with the brickwork, starting at 300k you'd expect a good standard
Every new building seems to be done cheaply. I do security work and new office buildings have shitty doors or fixtures etc... Not even sure how the maintenance team sign it over tbh.
Its not just sticking it to the floor with silicone, but its pretty obvious they just used moisture boards in the shower. No tanking on the walls and probably no waterproof seal either. People that buy new should be getting the real deal, just embarrassing new builds are still going up to this standard
With your tile problem I saw one way of overcoming it by putting a narrow belt of mosaic as a divider then a run of contrasting tiles as a sort feature, client pleased with result.
Great idea Roger and team for a series. I’ve got a new build and a creaking shower tray and now the pennies dropped with their install - I doubt they’ve bedded it on cement and just used silicone. Sharing your knowledge with literally thousands 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Waiting for a new roof on my new build, months of complaining and denials finally got there. cracking ceilings and flexing joists (as per your previous video) to keep complaining about and awaiting a fix. Been in the house 1 year now and problems continue.
I got so fec up with botched bathroom issues that when I knew I was moving I signed up for a plumbing course so I could do my own bathroom. My family and friends are amazed at what I've built: all the fitments are level and there are no leaks.
My daughter takes on a new build in May of this year. I'll be keeping an eye out following what I have learned on this channel and others. To be quite honest, I have been very, very disenchanted with just about every tradesman I've had in my house. In practice, I now know if you want a job done properly - DIY! Not what I would wish, but it genuinely seems 90% of tradesmen haven't got a clue, and that includes those recommended by the usual culprits. I know it's a shocking thing to say, but it is based on over 38 years of homeownership.
Bought this '82 Martin Grant build on the east of Guildford because no one had done anything since the builders left so no DIY botches to deal with. But 20+ years on I'm still finding and dealing with the builder's botches.
My new build bathroom has been a constant issue over 7 years of ownership. The bath is 1-2mm away from bottom title on the right and 6-7mm on the left side, but that's over around 500mm span! All of the traps etc have been replaced for McAlpine over the years and all the taps replaced and put into flexible connections using pushfit speedfit. Really shouldn't be replacing it all within 7 years.
New house builders should offer a no-quibble 20 year guarantee on everything. Let's not forget that house builders are not there to provide decent homes - the reason they exist is to make as much profit for their shareholders; nothing to do with providing quality homes.
I’m a joiner was working on a job with a plumber the other week he was fitting the shower tray and using expanding foam for a bed! I asked should that not be sand mix was told nobody does it that way…. 🙄
@@bodinski100 it would help if everyone commenting had fitted a few, seems 99% of the people commenting haven't done a day in there life but are happy to pile on
As a tape&jointers we retapped one penthouse with over 70 holes in walls and ceilings for electrical and plumbing Those holes was patched up with piece of timber behind and plasterboard
Just fitted an ABS shower tray for a customer. Used ply base with 10mm Jacko board under tray to walls in Jacko board. Tray stuck down with Jacko board adhesive and perimeter sealed. Definitely NOT silicone under any tray. It is flexible so keep it for sealing!
I will never buy a new build in my life... a friend paid £500k and had a 350 item snagg8ng list.... sadly a large number of developers should be ashamed of the utter rubbish they are turning out and charging a premium for.
The snags will be corrected though. If you buy any other house then you will more than likely have "snags" or repairs which you'll need to pay for. Fyi, I live in a new build (small developer) and had very little snags, all of which have been repaired. I hear a lot of issues with the larger developers though.
@@iambueno yes they will be corrected but the point is if the job had been done correctly in the first place they wouldn't need to be corrected.... how many other items do you buy new and accept it is broken from day 1 and have to get it repaired... you wouldn't accept it on a £50 pair of trousers or a £500 phone or a £50k car so why should you accept it on £250K+ property
Not until builders have to pay damages commensurate with the anxiety and shagnasty they cause their customers will things change. Too many of the subcontractors employed by building companies would have a problem finding their own arses let alone doing things by the book (they can’t read) or using the correct tool (which they don’t have) for the job. I think it only fair the t0ssers who commit these blunders are permanently removed from the building trade. Let’s face it, we need courgette and pepper pickers.
Imagine if I watched a vid about a pilot crashing a plane then suggested pilots cant read and should be picking veg, if the pic in the profile is you and you are a pilot then I guess your used to looking down at people, not all tradesmen do poor work as I'm sure not all pilots crash planes, the only time I look down on someone is if I'm trying to help them up, try it 👍
When I was plumbing on new builds around 15-20 years ago all the other plumbers were making nearly twice as much money as me. It was only when I had to visit every single property to put inhibitor in the system did I realise how this had been possible. The quality of work was a joke. It’s all about getting the job signed off and getting paid. The site managers are completely useless, and the only way to make good money is to cut corners and rush the job.
I hate builders who say, “the manufacturers just say that to protect themselves. They don’t really know” 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️
Thanks for this. Unfortunately they want to get in and get out asap onto the next (bodge) job. Obviously I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush, there are loads of good'uns out there doing a proper job.
Hi Roger. This is a subject I’ve had some first hand experience in myself as an electrician, I’ve done some new builds. I can tell you almost certainly although it was an individual who installed this. The individual can’t fully be blamed. Personally they were stop gap for me during quiet times and I couldn’t wait to get away from them. The culture of workmanship is terrible and it’s driven from the very top, it’s all about costs. He’s going to be working for a contractor who will have supplied him with that silicone. Because it’s the done thing on his site. The idea of a new build plumber with a trowel and a bucket of mortar in his hand. Wow it would just never happen. Even with a silo on hand! In my experience price work is so bad on these new builds that guys have to go like the clappers, throwing the gear in to the lowest standard, just to get it in on time to get an ok price. It’s fundamentally wrong. I’m glad I did my small stint to see it first hand, it was a lesson for me to A stay away from them and B never buy one! It’s the Wild West, instead of trades looking out for one another it’s the total opposite! Dog eat dog when on a race for price. Unfortunately until there is some kind of government lead inquiry and enforcement and better pay I can’t see it changing either.
@@SkillBuilder I don't disagree but it's a cultural thing. If there is a young apprentice getting rushed through jobs and it's all he ever known, when he's finished his time doing new builds it's still all he's ever know. I agree with you it's terrible practice! I'm just saying until things change at the top they can't change at the bottom. When I did new builds I was earning half as much as other sparks because I couldn't bring myself to do the things they were doing. Hence one of the reasons I couldn't do it!
Your final comment is the most important. The contractor is there, is paid, is doing a task, knows what (should know) to do...and yet the work is still not done correctly. I often see this in electrical contractors who say they are saving the customer money...by taking a short cut...but, in the long run are doing the opposite either out of ignorance or greed ( to get the call back). No customer is going to complain about another 50 quid to a 1200 pound invoice if those extra 50 turn into a very very good job. One of the jobs of contractors is to make sure the customer understands what is being done for them in a way that allows their work to be referenced to official standards. I have never had to advertise during the last 20 odd years because, early on, I showed customers the what, why, and how of a job and got them to understand how doing this correctly is only marginally more than cutr-rate contractors but also creates such a stabile construction that future adaptions can easily be made...and with a minimum of intrusion.
Trouble with plumbing on newbuilds is the prices. They haven’t changed for at least 10 years. To fit a shower tray is £20 on first fix. It’s no excuse however the main contractor needs to sort prices. The old saying, Pay peanuts and you get ……… I stopped doing new build work years ago for this reason
A few years back I fitted a 1000 square shower tray with the supplied riser kit. Instructions followed to the t. Went back recently and it has a hairline crack near the outlet. Which looking at it now is obviously thinned for a fall. And has no support near it. Never fitting that brand again.
Ive got a 20yr old Barratt house, and every time i do any work I’m appalled at what I find. It’s like the trades that built the house didn’t give 2F’s and obviously under huge time pressure to get the houses thrown up. Windows not level or square in frame (3+ inches of expanding foam round one window), skirting hammered into end of wall rather than cut and mitred, electric cables cut and left behind wall, downstairs wiring tied into upstairs circuit, and dont even get me started on what i found behind the walls / bathroom furniture when I recently refitted the bathrooms. I’m not a trades-mans but take pride in what I do or gardens I’ve built for people over the years.
Someone just said you get 20 quid for fitting a shower tray (I don't know if that's fair or not but it seems not much to me) . I'm guessing if they get paid quite little for each job, then I can now understand why people take short cuts. Time is money.. Unfortunately it's the home owner who pays for it..
Failure to RTFM is not restricted to building unfortunately. There's always a few who have been "doing this for years" but don't realise that the world has moved on without them and their knowledge is outdated.
Worked with a knowall plum. He asked to borrow by saw..for a joke I said ..no good it you I'm left handed it's a L.H. saw..looked out of window and he was using it awkwardly left handed...True Story!!!
I've recently came across a resin stone shower tray with instructions saying can be installed on a bed of 5-1 sand and cement or Silicone or supported on optional leg kit (not supplied). Seems like progress in the shower tray world at last . Ever wondered why stone resin shower trays have a big sticker affixed say must be stored flat 🤔 because if you store the at an angle against a wall for a prolonged time they actually bend slightly. Not so ridgid after all.
I'd be more concerned wIth that course of bricks in the block work, it doesn't look like brickettes in the same density as the blocks like it should be.
Although i do live in a new build house and had to sort so much cowboy work, are the people who work on them really "skilled tradesman" or is it the fact they just do not give a SH*T
Alot of it is down to the price being set by the big builder's the lads have no say in it believe it or not most of these lads will be lucky to make 200 a day and that's if their flat out
@@UnseenSpirit it's just average when you see the tools that are needed insurances ect and if there's any issues your told that's all included in the price and they would be working a full day to make 200
Funnily enough this exact thing happened to me. My father in law - a recently retired plumber fitted our shower tray with his son (also a plumber). The son insisted they follow the instructions about putting down the sand and cement stuff underneath but his Dad said not to bother, that he never did that, so they didn’t. Well, as you can guess, a few days later when we stood on it to shower you could hear tiny little cracks and funny hollow sounds everywhere you stood. We ended up lying to the manufacturer that we used a sand and cement bed (not proud of that) and they sent us a new one for free which was installed properly this time. It’s still going well 8 years later. The same father in law (who was previously corgi registered) tested his solders for leaks on our gas hob and boiler by using a lighter! We don’t use him anymore
So you're a family of poor tradesmen but what's worse is you yourself are a thief..! Its People like you stealing from manufacturers make it hard for genuine people to get refunded/replacements
@@tomsmith9048 I'm fortunate to just work on extension/renovation work. I show them videos like this and stuff sells its self. It's sickening what these new build lads are getting for jobs (and the pressure to get on with it) and what the sale price of the property. All going in the developers pocket and out of the buyers and tradesmans.
@@tedcopple101 I agree my house bashing days are long gone and never coming back but agencies on pay 20 t0 25 an hour and lads can make more house bashing there needs to be a conversation about money more often so people can see what they're getting for their pound most people won't even pay 200 a day for a carpenter
So true video, I looking some UK plumber in RUclips noone use sand and cement, all 2 blob a sealant done, what a cowboys.. Even if I fit bath i wooden or breeze block frame around with a small access hole for waste, so defo make it ridged.. Actually this video just came up when looked other plumber sealant down a tray, also he said never had a problem... bla bla well one day will be... Good video good to see decent trade man..
I wouldn't put my mother's ashes in a new build, let alone live in one. We've got loads of new build developments near where we live. Absolute doggy doos. Back in the days when Maggie Thatcher was at the helm, I worked on a posh gated development in South London. Large detached house. The quality of the fixtures and fittings plus some of the build quality was absolute crap. In one house they was a 3/4" gap between the bottom of the skirting and the floor in one room where the floor had shifted. The only thing premium about them was the price.
I’m not saying which is best but I do know a lot of plumbers that use grab glues, and even green plaster board lol to be fair even if it was installed to the dot by the manufacturer it’s a LONG task to get them to admit fault if the tray is defective
My house is a Wimpy home built about 22yrs ago. To be fair it’s pretty good. The shower area is tiled straight over plasterboard and that lasted 20 odd years 👍🏻 (not that I’d do that 😉). Everything else is good too, no problems.
@@gdfggggg drainage?? For one but mainly cheap materials from roof tiles to gutter sealants it’s around the 20-25 year mark these may start to falter. 22yrs you’re house is a teenager
@@Zoltar1811 it's all good as new. The brickwork has no cracks as the footings are done properly. No problems with drainage at all. No damp issues, anywhere. The roof hasn't been touched and looks in near perfect condition. It's well insulated and solid. This house will outlast any victorian house that you could kick down with your feet at the wall plate the mortar is that shite. The timbers are all properly sized and treated. The fabric of this house will be the same in 50/100yrs time no problem. The only issue will be the usual like roofing felt, gutters etc. The soffits and fascias are plastic.
Looks like the work of cockney wide boys! I had a couple do some work for me a while back,they thought they could get away with having me over until I showed them what it was all about!!!
The fundamental problem is there are very few tradesman. Most are just cavalier jobbing labourers and effectively poor DIYers who get paid for their hack and run jobs.
Unfortunately the problem with fitting shower trays on sand and cement is the base, it needs to be bedded on marine ply, I myself fit these trays on silicoln (however I put it on a bed that covers and supports the whole tray) as the builder won't fit marine ply due to the cost, I've tried fitting the trays direct to the wayrock flooring as instructed by the builder only to find after a few weeks the cement turns to dust as the flooring sucks the moisture out of the cement causing it to not set properly and then the tray cracks, I've literally fitted 100s on a good bed of silicoln with no problems even though it's against manufacturers instructions, it's a shame it has to be done like this and I'm in no way saying the example you've given is acceptable as its obviously not sufficiently supported but try not to label all tradesmen as cowboys as we try not to criticise all "keyboard experts" sometimes at work and in life you get stuck between a rock and a hard place and you just try your best with what you've got.
Any plumber bragging about slopping some sealant under a shower tray has their head up their backside. Honestly, how much effort does it take to mix a bag of mortar? Hope this customer sues the plumber and doesn't settle.
It wasn't the silicone that was the problem here. It looks like the shape of the support underneath was the culprit because half the silicone hasn't even compressed against it.
@@SkillBuilder yep, thats my point...sometimes, time served experience and method outscores the 'manufacturers advice' i.e legal getout clause. I admire your career roger, when i started in this game 15 odd years ago, you were the columnist in the the plumbcentre mag....you still talk a good game....more rant vids with your solutions added in are required. ;)
I just feel sorry for the home owner. It annoys me as well that people think these issues are just what happens with new builds - teething issues they'll say. That's just not doing you're job properly.
I'm not defending not following mi's because I agree with you just do it right.. But what's the difference in that and using the shower raiser kit legs??
I think you will find that the wallboard soaked up the water from the tray. It can go on for a long time and the tiles look fine but the plaster board has had it.
Another good video- I've put a mira flight on silicone on raised ply base as per miras instructions it would have more coverage of silicone than that tray but I assume its OK in that case as their tray is more ribbed underneath and they obviously say you can?
My youngest daughters house in South Milton Devon, a new house where the corner tape has no adhesive so it’s all coming off unsurprisingly. The house builder has said its not a quality issue?
Victorian houses were built so much better than modern crap. Yes, they have all the modern finishes, but underneath you have poor workmanship and skimping materials. Who'd want a new house. eh? Not me.
If they need to be bedded fully on sand and cement how do you explain the optional riser kits the manufacturer send out that has a threaded leg only in the corners?
different tray. This is resin cast. you can't put them on legs. It needs a platform of plywood. The need to bed down is because they are not ground flat on the underside.
@@bodinski100 interesting. Don't think I'd trust it to be honest, and I'd definitely be checking the small print, but if the manufacturer is selling the leg kit it would seem that you're right. Thanks.
I believe that Thather got rid of the government inspectors and alliwed the developers to employ their own. Well I need not even infer what that means for saferand quality.
The trouble is if the floor moves by more than 1mm and the tray is resin cast it is likely to crack. You don't really want it to grab both surfaces. It needs a slip layer hence the lean mix of sand and cement. Even better is sand and cement with plasticiser .The even support is the thing
@@regiondeltas Acoustic insulation makes huge difference in living comfort. Cost You just few quid for earthwool comparing to house price. Why not have it?
Why do people buy new builds . I'm glad they do because it's half my work . But there all shit with no opportunity for adding value . I wouldn't consider anything built after 1900
Only way these short cutting slap dash builders will learn if it hits their money pockets hard. Would have take 20mins to bed that tray properly, customer has had all that ball ache because some people think the rules don't apply to them.
Alot of these big builder's are to big to either take on or fail I personally believe their should be an independent inquiry that checks each phase and job but the big builder's would just pass it in to the buyer
It costs the plumber to do it properly - friend of mine used to install on new builds; they’re paid per bathroom (i.e. piece time) so the faster they can put them in the more they make per day. They don’t worry about it as they know any remedial work will be picked up by the builder. You can argue the case about it but if builders pay the contractors by completion rate not job quality this issue will never go away. Said friend doesn’t do new builds anymore, he couldn’t accept he’d have to do a crap job to make good money so does other work instead.
Sadly, this is the nature of big business. You sign your name, handover your cash, and if it goes wrong you’re on your own. They fob you off hoping you’ll get fed up complaining, and invariably we do because we can’t commit the time. The problem isn’t the subby who fitted the shower tray, it’s the law that allows big companies to operate like this. They should be hit hard enough in the pocket constantly for all breaches, forcing them to implement better quality control.
What you mean the company that did so very well out of government policy that the CEO, Jeff Fairburn, paid himself £100 million as an annual bonus? Surely not!
One of my pet hates is the number of people I cross paths with professionally that will claim "I don't need to do it that way, I've been doing it like this for X years, and never had a problem". My response is (usually)"a polite version of "You've been doing it wrong for all that time and while you don't think you've had a problem, it's likely because your former clients have gone to somebody competent to repair the problems you have caused."
I DIYed our bathroom fixtures but got pros in to tile. I was away when they came and one asked my wife if I had done the plumbing. She said yes and he said "Thought so ... far too neat for a plumber."
I spent ages fitting my resin cast tray on an even bed of mortar only to discover after, (when I read the rest of the instructions) that if you bought the optional shower tray raiser kit it stood on 4 legs one in each corner with a trim panel clipped on the side! RTFM The biggest problem I had was sealing the trap to the underside of the resin cast as it was full of air bubbles that would let the water right past the rubber seal. I ended up using a mass of plumbers mate to fill in the air bubbles.
Problem is all the new build sites put everyone on a price per plot! And it’s peanuts! So that’s why they don’t give a shit! And the problem will continue till people get paid a decent amount! To greedy at the top!!!!
I think a lot of these new build companies work on the premise that hopefully the owner won't notice. But you'd have to be Stevie Wonder to not notice some of the appalling 'work' being passed off these days.
You can't bed 'em in sand and cement on a wooden floor. Builder shouldn't have speced that tray for the build. What's you veiw in foaming them in with the denser foam? And why do shower trays seem to never let sillicone stick properly to them, even if you scrub the daylights out of them with all sorts of solvent. What ever release agent they use in the mould just does not come off. Been to loads of shower trays where the sillicone look pucker but it's hovereing off the tray, you can't see it, even close up, but water pisses thru it.
I had a walk round a new build estate last Sunday, spotted so many faults, even the show home had issues with the brickwork, starting at 300k you'd expect a good standard
The dry verges are currently falling off the show home on the newbuild estate near me. And that's the showhome!
Every new building seems to be done cheaply. I do security work and new office buildings have shitty doors or fixtures etc... Not even sure how the maintenance team sign it over tbh.
£300 k would get you a studio flat in the South East !
@@UnseenSpirit brown envelopes
To clarify, 300k is peanuts for a house nowadays
Absolute wrecks/shells are being sold for that round my way
Its not just sticking it to the floor with silicone, but its pretty obvious they just used moisture boards in the shower. No tanking on the walls and probably no waterproof seal either. People that buy new should be getting the real deal, just embarrassing new builds are still going up to this standard
You are right, we just looked at the shower tray bedding but there was more
Sounds like that first plumbing company are a right shower
Very droll😎
With your tile problem I saw one way of overcoming it by putting a narrow belt of mosaic as a divider then a run of contrasting tiles as a sort feature, client pleased with result.
Great idea and gets over a lot of issues
Great idea Roger and team for a series.
I’ve got a new build and a creaking shower tray and now the pennies dropped with their install - I doubt they’ve bedded it on cement and just used silicone.
Sharing your knowledge with literally thousands 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Waiting for a new roof on my new build, months of complaining and denials finally got there.
cracking ceilings and flexing joists (as per your previous video) to keep complaining about and awaiting a fix.
Been in the house 1 year now and problems continue.
I got so fec up with botched bathroom issues that when I knew I was moving I signed up for a plumbing course so I could do my own bathroom. My family and friends are amazed at what I've built: all the fitments are level and there are no leaks.
My daughter takes on a new build in May of this year. I'll be keeping an eye out following what I have learned on this channel and others. To be quite honest, I have been very, very disenchanted with just about every tradesman I've had in my house. In practice, I now know if you want a job done properly - DIY! Not what I would wish, but it genuinely seems 90% of tradesmen haven't got a clue, and that includes those recommended by the usual culprits. I know it's a shocking thing to say, but it is based on over 38 years of homeownership.
Bought this '82 Martin Grant build on the east of Guildford because no one had done anything since the builders left so no DIY botches to deal with. But 20+ years on I'm still finding and dealing with the builder's botches.
My new build bathroom has been a constant issue over 7 years of ownership. The bath is 1-2mm away from bottom title on the right and 6-7mm on the left side, but that's over around 500mm span! All of the traps etc have been replaced for McAlpine over the years and all the taps replaced and put into flexible connections using pushfit speedfit. Really shouldn't be replacing it all within 7 years.
f
New house builders should offer a no-quibble 20 year guarantee on everything.
Let's not forget that house builders are not there to provide decent homes - the reason they exist is to make as much profit for their shareholders; nothing to do with providing quality homes.
I’m a joiner was working on a job with a plumber the other week he was fitting the shower tray and using expanding foam for a bed! I asked should that not be sand mix was told nobody does it that way…. 🙄
He wasnt wrong....silicone is excellent, but you need waaaau more than the jizz drizzle on this tray shown in vid
@@bodinski100 it would help if everyone commenting had fitted a few, seems 99% of the people commenting haven't done a day in there life but are happy to pile on
@@AJ-xo9uw 15+ years a bathroom fittet, and lots and lots of trays glued with silicone...not one failure.
As a tape&jointers we retapped one penthouse with over 70 holes in walls and ceilings for electrical and plumbing
Those holes was patched up with piece of timber behind and plasterboard
Just fitted an ABS shower tray for a customer. Used ply base with 10mm Jacko board under tray to walls in Jacko board. Tray stuck down with Jacko board adhesive and perimeter sealed.
Definitely NOT silicone under any tray. It is flexible so keep it for sealing!
I followed your advice on bedding my son's stone resin tray. I was going to use tile adhesive until I saw your youtube. So far so good!
I will never buy a new build in my life... a friend paid £500k and had a 350 item snagg8ng list.... sadly a large number of developers should be ashamed of the utter rubbish they are turning out and charging a premium for.
The snags will be corrected though. If you buy any other house then you will more than likely have "snags" or repairs which you'll need to pay for. Fyi, I live in a new build (small developer) and had very little snags, all of which have been repaired. I hear a lot of issues with the larger developers though.
@@iambueno yes they will be corrected but the point is if the job had been done correctly in the first place they wouldn't need to be corrected.... how many other items do you buy new and accept it is broken from day 1 and have to get it repaired... you wouldn't accept it on a £50 pair of trousers or a £500 phone or a £50k car so why should you accept it on £250K+ property
@@TheDarrenc1973 and no doubt a Georgian or Victorian house also had issues when new too.
Not until builders have to pay damages commensurate with the anxiety and shagnasty they cause their customers will things change. Too many of the subcontractors employed by building companies would have a problem finding their own arses let alone doing things by the book (they can’t read) or using the correct tool (which they don’t have) for the job. I think it only fair the t0ssers who commit these blunders are permanently removed from the building trade. Let’s face it, we need courgette and pepper pickers.
Imagine if I watched a vid about a pilot crashing a plane then suggested pilots cant read and should be picking veg, if the pic in the profile is you and you are a pilot then I guess your used to looking down at people, not all tradesmen do poor work as I'm sure not all pilots crash planes, the only time I look down on someone is if I'm trying to help them up, try it 👍
When I was plumbing on new builds around 15-20 years ago all the other plumbers were making nearly twice as much money as me. It was only when I had to visit every single property to put inhibitor in the system did I realise how this had been possible. The quality of work was a joke. It’s all about getting the job signed off and getting paid. The site managers are completely useless, and the only way to make good money is to cut corners and rush the job.
Roger you cracked a shower tray bedding it down, you put it right. These plumbers should put it right too,
I hate builders who say, “the manufacturers just say that to protect themselves. They don’t really know” 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️
Mira do actually say you can use silicone to bed their trays. However, I'd imagine they want more then that!.
Mira Flight is not a resin cast tray. I should have emphasised that I am talking about resin cast
Def not a mira tray. We no longer fit concrete resin trays on our new builds. To weak and new build floors flex to much.
@@SkillBuilder According to Mira's specs, the Flight is acrylic on stone resin. What's the difference between this and resin cast products?
Thanks for this. Unfortunately they want to get in and get out asap onto the next (bodge) job. Obviously I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush, there are loads of good'uns out there doing a proper job.
Frustrating as I consider myself one of the good ones. I would be a lot richer I feel if I ever became a dirty bodger.
Unfortunately the price is set by the big builder's to maximize profits and it's not fair on anyone tradesmen or customers
I've used bonding compound, found it worked well.
The dry liners choice. sets like concrete sticks like shit to a blanket. Thumbs up.
Hi Roger. This is a subject I’ve had some first hand experience in myself as an electrician, I’ve done some new builds. I can tell you almost certainly although it was an individual who installed this. The individual can’t fully be blamed.
Personally they were stop gap for me during quiet times and I couldn’t wait to get away from them. The culture of workmanship is terrible and it’s driven from the very top, it’s all about costs.
He’s going to be working for a contractor who will have supplied him with that silicone. Because it’s the done thing on his site. The idea of a new build plumber with a trowel and a bucket of mortar in his hand. Wow it would just never happen. Even with a silo on hand!
In my experience price work is so bad on these new builds that guys have to go like the clappers, throwing the gear in to the lowest standard, just to get it in on time to get an ok price. It’s fundamentally wrong. I’m glad I did my small stint to see it first hand, it was a lesson for me to A stay away from them and B never buy one!
It’s the Wild West, instead of trades looking out for one another it’s the total opposite! Dog eat dog when on a race for price.
Unfortunately until there is some kind of government lead inquiry and enforcement and better pay I can’t see it changing either.
I think if someone puts a resin cast tray on silicone dabs he is guilty as charged. We can't carry on with the "I was only obeying orders" defence.
@@SkillBuilder I don't disagree but it's a cultural thing. If there is a young apprentice getting rushed through jobs and it's all he ever known, when he's finished his time doing new builds it's still all he's ever know.
I agree with you it's terrible practice! I'm just saying until things change at the top they can't change at the bottom.
When I did new builds I was earning half as much as other sparks because I couldn't bring myself to do the things they were doing. Hence one of the reasons I couldn't do it!
Did a Mira flight, they recommended silicon!
Your final comment is the most important. The contractor is there, is paid, is doing a task, knows what (should know) to do...and yet the work is still not done correctly. I often see this in electrical contractors who say they are saving the customer money...by taking a short cut...but, in the long run are doing the opposite either out of ignorance or greed ( to get the call back). No customer is going to complain about another 50 quid to a 1200 pound invoice if those extra 50 turn into a very very good job. One of the jobs of contractors is to make sure the customer understands what is being done for them in a way that allows their work to be referenced to official standards. I have never had to advertise during the last 20 odd years because, early on, I showed customers the what, why, and how of a job and got them to understand how doing this correctly is only marginally more than cutr-rate contractors but also creates such a stabile construction that future adaptions can easily be made...and with a minimum of intrusion.
Trouble with plumbing on newbuilds is the prices. They haven’t changed for at least 10 years. To fit a shower tray is £20 on first fix. It’s no excuse however the main contractor needs to sort prices. The old saying, Pay peanuts and you get ……… I stopped doing new build work years ago for this reason
Bloody hell 20 quid to fit a shower tray sounds cheap
For £20 I'm surprised it's even the right way up.
A few years back I fitted a 1000 square shower tray with the supplied riser kit. Instructions followed to the t. Went back recently and it has a hairline crack near the outlet. Which looking at it now is obviously thinned for a fall. And has no support near it. Never fitting that brand again.
Ive got a 20yr old Barratt house, and every time i do any work I’m appalled at what I find. It’s like the trades that built the house didn’t give 2F’s and obviously under huge time pressure to get the houses thrown up. Windows not level or square in frame (3+ inches of expanding foam round one window), skirting hammered into end of wall rather than cut and mitred, electric cables cut and left behind wall, downstairs wiring tied into upstairs circuit, and dont even get me started on what i found behind the walls / bathroom furniture when I recently refitted the bathrooms. I’m not a trades-mans but take pride in what I do or gardens I’ve built for people over the years.
Someone just said you get 20 quid for fitting a shower tray (I don't know if that's fair or not but it seems not much to me) . I'm guessing if they get paid quite little for each job, then I can now understand why people take short cuts. Time is money.. Unfortunately it's the home owner who pays for it..
Barratts have always been one of the worst around
Failure to RTFM is not restricted to building unfortunately.
There's always a few who have been "doing this for years" but don't realise that the world has moved on without them and their knowledge is outdated.
Worked with a knowall plum.
He asked to borrow by saw..for a joke I said ..no good it you I'm left handed it's a L.H. saw..looked out of window and he was using it awkwardly left handed...True Story!!!
I've recently came across a resin stone shower tray with instructions saying can be installed on a bed of 5-1 sand and cement or Silicone or supported on optional leg kit (not supplied).
Seems like progress in the shower tray world at last . Ever wondered why stone resin shower trays have a big sticker affixed say must be stored flat 🤔 because if you store the at an angle against a wall for a prolonged time they actually bend slightly. Not so ridgid after all.
Shocking.!!!
I'm surprised they used anything below the shower tray! I have seen a few with nothing at all. Bonkers
Many of the New Zealand shower trays are fiberglass or plastic.
I'd be more concerned wIth that course of bricks in the block work, it doesn't look like brickettes in the same density as the blocks like it should be.
Although i do live in a new build house and had to sort so much cowboy work, are the people who work on them really "skilled tradesman" or is it the fact they just do not give a SH*T
A lot of times they don't know any better. The good ones are the ones that get excited about learning best practice.
Alot of it is down to the price being set by the big builder's the lads have no say in it believe it or not most of these lads will be lucky to make 200 a day and that's if their flat out
@@tomsmith9048 200 a day seems a good amount. How many hours do they work?
@@UnseenSpirit it's just average when you see the tools that are needed insurances ect and if there's any issues your told that's all included in the price and they would be working a full day to make 200
Wondering if you can bed it down with tile adhesive 🤷
Funnily enough this exact thing happened to me. My father in law - a recently retired plumber fitted our shower tray with his son (also a plumber). The son insisted they follow the instructions about putting down the sand and cement stuff underneath but his Dad said not to bother, that he never did that, so they didn’t.
Well, as you can guess, a few days later when we stood on it to shower you could hear tiny little cracks and funny hollow sounds everywhere you stood.
We ended up lying to the manufacturer that we used a sand and cement bed (not proud of that) and they sent us a new one for free which was installed properly this time. It’s still going well 8 years later.
The same father in law (who was previously corgi registered) tested his solders for leaks on our gas hob and boiler by using a lighter!
We don’t use him anymore
You don't use him anymore.... because he died in an explosion?
Was his name derek trotter?
no wonder people's homes are blowing up all the time.
So you're a family of poor tradesmen but what's worse is you yourself are a thief..! Its People like you stealing from manufacturers make it hard for genuine people to get refunded/replacements
@@AJ-xo9uw It was the father in law that lied but yes I agree with you
Good video Rodger. Bloody new build again. Glad I live in a sixties built house.
I'm in a 1960s build house too. It's also got loads of slapdash building. Every decade has them.
Full mortar bed, tanked out with elements boards, no more leaks seal , simple. Costs a few more quid, doddle to fit but zero come backs.
I agree but these big builder's aren't giving the lads anywhere near that type of money
@@tomsmith9048 I'm fortunate to just work on extension/renovation work. I show them videos like this and stuff sells its self. It's sickening what these new build lads are getting for jobs (and the pressure to get on with it) and what the sale price of the property. All going in the developers pocket and out of the buyers and tradesmans.
@@tedcopple101 I agree my house bashing days are long gone and never coming back but agencies on pay 20 t0 25 an hour and lads can make more house bashing there needs to be a conversation about money more often so people can see what they're getting for their pound most people won't even pay 200 a day for a carpenter
So true video, I looking some UK plumber in RUclips noone use sand and cement, all 2 blob a sealant done, what a cowboys.. Even if I fit bath i wooden or breeze block frame around with a small access hole for waste, so defo make it ridged.. Actually this video just came up when looked other plumber sealant down a tray, also he said never had a problem... bla bla well one day will be... Good video good to see decent trade man..
"Breeze block frame" around a bath..!! Cracking idea 😂
Thanks for this, Roger - just adding to my knowledge, every time I watch one of your videos. Love the format. Thank you👍👍👍
I wouldn't put my mother's ashes in a new build, let alone live in one.
We've got loads of new build developments near where we live. Absolute doggy doos.
Back in the days when Maggie Thatcher was at the helm, I worked on a posh gated development in South London. Large detached house. The quality of the fixtures and fittings plus some of the build quality was absolute crap. In one house they was a 3/4" gap between the bottom of the skirting and the floor in one room where the floor had shifted. The only thing premium about them was the price.
Need builders like Mr Roger who got the old skool grit in there veins do a proper job
One thing I like about the American system is that they make the bathrooms pretty much water tight. If this happens, the damage stays in the bathroom.
I’m not saying which is best but I do know a lot of plumbers that use grab glues, and even green plaster board lol to be fair even if it was installed to the dot by the manufacturer it’s a LONG task to get them to admit fault if the tray is defective
Wtf ha ha. Why the hell would you cut so much out for a shower tray. That's quite ridiculous.
My house is a Wimpy home built about 22yrs ago. To be fair it’s pretty good. The shower area is tiled straight over plasterboard and that lasted 20 odd years 👍🏻 (not that I’d do that 😉). Everything else is good too, no problems.
Give it time
@@Zoltar1811 I think I'd know the problems after 20 years.
@@gdfggggg drainage?? For one but mainly cheap materials from roof tiles to gutter sealants it’s around the 20-25 year mark these may start to falter. 22yrs you’re house is a teenager
@@Zoltar1811 it's all good as new. The brickwork has no cracks as the footings are done properly. No problems with drainage at all. No damp issues, anywhere. The roof hasn't been touched and looks in near perfect condition. It's well insulated and solid. This house will outlast any victorian house that you could kick down with your feet at the wall plate the mortar is that shite.
The timbers are all properly sized and treated. The fabric of this house will be the same in 50/100yrs time no problem. The only issue will be the usual like roofing felt, gutters etc. The soffits and fascias are plastic.
Builders even make trousers out of silicone!
Looks like the work of cockney wide boys! I had a couple do some work for me a while back,they thought they could get away with having me over until I showed them what it was all about!!!
I use double sided tape to stick down my shower trays.....work's a treat
It is not about sticking them down it is about supporting the uneven base. They are not flat
@@SkillBuilder I use loads of tape in the uneven bits.
The fundamental problem is there are very few tradesman. Most are just cavalier jobbing labourers and effectively poor DIYers who get paid for their hack and run jobs.
Unfortunately the problem with fitting shower trays on sand and cement is the base, it needs to be bedded on marine ply, I myself fit these trays on silicoln (however I put it on a bed that covers and supports the whole tray) as the builder won't fit marine ply due to the cost, I've tried fitting the trays direct to the wayrock flooring as instructed by the builder only to find after a few weeks the cement turns to dust as the flooring sucks the moisture out of the cement causing it to not set properly and then the tray cracks, I've literally fitted 100s on a good bed of silicoln with no problems even though it's against manufacturers instructions, it's a shame it has to be done like this and I'm in no way saying the example you've given is acceptable as its obviously not sufficiently supported but try not to label all tradesmen as cowboys as we try not to criticise all "keyboard experts" sometimes at work and in life you get stuck between a rock and a hard place and you just try your best with what you've got.
You need to prime the board first which we do
mortgage lenders need to stop lending on these monstrosities, making them unsellable. that is the only way to stop this BS.
Any plumber bragging about slopping some sealant under a shower tray has their head up their backside. Honestly, how much effort does it take to mix a bag of mortar? Hope this customer sues the plumber and doesn't settle.
Where do I start 🥺🙄🧱🤣
It wasn't the silicone that was the problem here. It looks like the shape of the support underneath was the culprit because half the silicone hasn't even compressed against it.
Is that dot n dab floor tile vid still on ya playlist?
He never did the promised follow up vid'.
We did follow it up with a whole thing on dot and dab. The tiles are still fine
@@SkillBuilder yep, thats my point...sometimes, time served experience and method outscores the 'manufacturers advice' i.e legal getout clause.
I admire your career roger, when i started in this game 15 odd years ago, you were the columnist in the the plumbcentre mag....you still talk a good game....more rant vids with your solutions added in are required. ;)
Steel Shower Trays only imho
I just feel sorry for the home owner. It annoys me as well that people think these issues are just what happens with new builds - teething issues they'll say. That's just not doing you're job properly.
I'm not defending not following mi's because I agree with you just do it right.. But what's the difference in that and using the shower raiser kit legs??
The tray with legs is not a resin cast tray. The construction is different
But if taking the base out why did the plumber smash all the wall tiling out? I presume he noticed the crack in the tray afterwards?
I think you will find that the wallboard soaked up the water from the tray. It can go on for a long time and the tiles look fine but the plaster board has had it.
Another good video- I've put a mira flight on silicone on raised ply base as per miras instructions it would have more coverage of silicone than that tray but I assume its OK in that case as their tray is more ribbed underneath and they obviously say you can?
@@SkillBuilder good to hear thanks!
Unbelievable
once they have your deposit they will get you in has fast as possible
My youngest daughters house in South Milton Devon, a new house where the corner tape has no adhesive so it’s all coming off unsurprisingly.
The house builder has said its not a quality issue?
There seems to be a lot of trouble with taping and jointing. Send us some pictures we are coming down to do some filming on that estate next month.
Victorian houses were built so much better than modern crap. Yes, they have all the modern finishes, but underneath you have poor workmanship and skimping materials. Who'd want a new house. eh? Not me.
Simple case of RTFM.
If they need to be bedded fully on sand and cement how do you explain the optional riser kits the manufacturer send out that has a threaded leg only in the corners?
different tray. This is resin cast. you can't put them on legs. It needs a platform of plywood. The need to bed down is because they are not ground flat on the underside.
@@SkillBuilder Not true there are several manufacturers that supply leg kits for resin cast trays
@@jimmypage1 are you able to name one? I'm not questioning you, just interested.
@@ricos1497 victorian plumbing sell a screw in leg and pamel set for their Nui resin low profile trays....
@@bodinski100 interesting. Don't think I'd trust it to be honest, and I'd definitely be checking the small print, but if the manufacturer is selling the leg kit it would seem that you're right. Thanks.
How do we contact you? Got a doozy in West Yorkshire.
I believe that Thather got rid of the government inspectors and alliwed the developers to employ their own. Well I need not even infer what that means for saferand quality.
Wain Homes?
Prime the shower tray base and bed it on a flexible tile adhesive if it's on wood, that way you don't need to use sand and cement with an ad mix.
The trouble is if the floor moves by more than 1mm and the tray is resin cast it is likely to crack. You don't really want it to grab both surfaces. It needs a slip layer hence the lean mix of sand and cement. Even better is sand and cement with plasticiser .The even support is the thing
That is why you should never ever invest in a new build…. If you do good luck …..👍👍
Name and shame
No insulation in stud?
Why would you? It's only a bit of battening out for the pipe work
@@regiondeltas Acoustic insulation makes huge difference in living comfort.
Cost You just few quid for earthwool comparing to house price.
Why not have it?
@@leszekglowacki488 Because the wall is insulated, and a few square meters on one random wall is gonna do nothing?
Sound like plumber couldn’t be bothered and poor price work on site
Ok 4 eyes
Bovis, Linden Taylor Wimpy all crap
Umm yr headphones are not on right ! .................lol
I had to hear noises off as well as my feed. O.K they were a prop
Why people build new builds I will never know buy old and do up way to go
These humans these days, just Want our Money,
Why do people buy new builds . I'm glad they do because it's half my work . But there all shit with no opportunity for adding value .
I wouldn't consider anything built after 1900
Only way these short cutting slap dash builders will learn if it hits their money pockets hard.
Would have take 20mins to bed that tray properly, customer has had all that ball ache because some people think the rules don't apply to them.
+ the customer should get compensation on top of the repair bill !
Alot of these big builder's are to big to either take on or fail I personally believe their should be an independent inquiry that checks each phase and job but the big builder's would just pass it in to the buyer
@@tomsmith9048 WE have the internet ! so name + shame them
@@antonyporter5045 I don't know any big builder's that are good bellway Simmons Taylor they just keep producing crap fast crap builds but top profits
@@tomsmith9048
+ as long as you wear yr hard hat their happy
It costs the plumber to do it properly - friend of mine used to install on new builds; they’re paid per bathroom (i.e. piece time) so the faster they can put them in the more they make per day. They don’t worry about it as they know any remedial work will be picked up by the builder.
You can argue the case about it but if builders pay the contractors by completion rate not job quality this issue will never go away.
Said friend doesn’t do new builds anymore, he couldn’t accept he’d have to do a crap job to make good money so does other work instead.
Great advice. Keep these coming.
Sadly, this is the nature of big business. You sign your name, handover your cash, and if it goes wrong you’re on your own. They fob you off hoping you’ll get fed up complaining, and invariably we do because we can’t commit the time. The problem isn’t the subby who fitted the shower tray, it’s the law that allows big companies to operate like this. They should be hit hard enough in the pocket constantly for all breaches, forcing them to implement better quality control.
Even if it didn't crack, you would have a void there where moisture can collect and mold can grow.. Maybe even some insects could get in.
I've seen a beetle infestation in a kitchen. Apparently they eat damp wood.
Especially where cock roaches are concerned nasty
Living and working in many new builds, I’d be amazed if this WASN’T a Persimmon house
What you mean the company that did so very well out of government policy that the CEO, Jeff Fairburn, paid himself £100 million as an annual bonus? Surely not!
Doesn't look like any Persimmon I've worked on. Do they do block walls upstairs on their builds?
@@thetessellater9163 if it government policy then surely others could have paid themselves a bonus not just Fairburn!
No persimmon I've worked on was traditional build, had wooden stud work, or had "premium" bathroom fixtures 😂🤣😂
I've just had to dab one. They are terrible
One of my pet hates is the number of people I cross paths with professionally that will claim "I don't need to do it that way, I've been doing it like this for X years, and never had a problem".
My response is (usually)"a polite version of "You've been doing it wrong for all that time and while you don't think you've had a problem, it's likely because your former clients have gone to somebody competent to repair the problems you have caused."
Damion that is very astute. Who would call back the guy who did it wrong?
Lol and us DIY'ers get bad mouthed by trades, then you see this 5h1t being turned out. Love the channel, learning a lot.
There are bad DIYers and good DIYers, same goes for tradesmen. The good guys always get overlooked by the bad ones.
I DIYed our bathroom fixtures but got pros in to tile. I was away when they came and one asked my wife if I had done the plumbing. She said yes and he said "Thought so ... far too neat for a plumber."
@@mikes4163 Not surprised, some DiYers do some research and take their time so they can make a good job.
When they pay £50 a day a labourer to do the bathroom , this is what's gonna happend !
As a commentator on another RUclips channel would say "Absolutely Shocking!"
I used to get annoyed watching your vids but then I grew up . Good vid again
About 10 yrs ago, I fitted a tray using construction adhesive, as recommended by manufacturer.
I spent ages fitting my resin cast tray on an even bed of mortar only to discover after, (when I read the rest of the instructions) that if you bought the optional shower tray raiser kit it stood on 4 legs one in each corner with a trim panel clipped on the side! RTFM
The biggest problem I had was sealing the trap to the underside of the resin cast as it was full of air bubbles that would let the water right past the rubber seal. I ended up using a mass of plumbers mate to fill in the air bubbles.
Problem is all the new build sites put everyone on a price per plot! And it’s peanuts! So that’s why they don’t give a shit! And the problem will continue till people get paid a decent amount! To greedy at the top!!!!
What do you mean by price per plot mate?
@@UnseenSpirit they get a price to first and second fix the house and the price is set by the big builder so it's never a great price 🔨
So looking at that pic, the entire cistern/plumbing for that toliet will be tiled in behind the wall? So how do you get at it for maintenance?
I think a lot of these new build companies work on the premise that hopefully the owner won't notice. But you'd have to be Stevie Wonder to not notice some of the appalling 'work' being passed off these days.
i was reading my plumbing book the other day, looked on the first page consultant "Roger Bisby"
Must be an old book.
@@SkillBuilder the one your advised on when you wos a lad🤪
As you say, "Do It Right The First time"
You can't bed 'em in sand and cement on a wooden floor. Builder shouldn't have speced that tray for the build. What's you veiw in foaming them in with the denser foam? And why do shower trays seem to never let sillicone stick properly to them, even if you scrub the daylights out of them with all sorts of solvent. What ever release agent they use in the mould just does not come off. Been to loads of shower trays where the sillicone look pucker but it's hovereing off the tray, you can't see it, even close up, but water pisses thru it.