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- Опубликовано: 20 авг 2024
- More Mailbag!
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SPOILERS:
AVX Capacitor Bonanza!
Pixel LED Light Kickstarter: www.kickstarte...
Carbide Steel Multimeter Test Probes
AMX Touch Screen controller teardown
Patent bullshit and automotive meter teardown
Pandora Portable Gaming Console Teardown
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Your passion for quality capacitors is probably only matched by ur passion for multimeters. Best gift ever those caps.
The Screws are where the bank programs the account info into the device. There is a baseplate adapter. Most likely a serial interface like SPI
I wouldn't have guess that, very cool indeed.
The spirals are then probably meant to increase the inductance of the trace going towards the logic. That would prevent any fast transients (ESD) from damaging the logic and instead force the majority of the current over the spark gap.
Yeah, I would say the same. The screw terminals are marked IN-L, IN-R, OUT and REF. Clearly some kind of serial interface. I would assume that it is used to program the actual date and time into that thing because those generated codes depend on an internal clock.
Those AVX super capacitors are some very nice ones. They are low ESR and can supply some pretty high current.
That 400F cap would most likely be able to spot weld stuff, it's rated for 173 amps peak!
It's probably a good thing the flashlight kit comes already soldered. The WS2812 LEDs are extremely easy to kill when soldering, they are not exactly beginner friendly.
I had no clue they made caps with that high of capacitance.
Snarky Mark
Look up super capacitors. Maxwell (now owned by Tesla) makes 3000F supercaps. Others do too. Some call them ultracaps. They are different from electrolytic caps.
What's better than an EEVBlog video? An EEVBlog video with a notification halfway through that bigclivedotcom has uploaded a new video. I wonder if I'll get a notification about an AvE video halfway through Big Clive's?!
Why I did not get notification of a new bigclivedotcom movie. :(
Shit now I remember I was playing with some LiIon battery's, don't know why......
And then one from 'this old Tony' , that would make my day!
And then hopefully a notification about a new video on PlayWithJunk.... ;-)
@Dave Micolichek Ah, if only that were still a thing.
Since the release of Crocodile Dundee every Australian gets one of these Knifes as a passport replacement
Knives
fabihabiee
Yeah, at first there reportedly were some problems when new passport holders tried to enter planes though.
Dave, Innova also make OBDII reader, available in car stores, like Canadian Tire. They are consumer grade devices, not pro.
the probe tip idea is very interesting.
Definitely! I could have used some of those last week while trying to beep out some TSSOP-16 chips (solder bridge somewhere, was a PITA to find...)
Can Dave read, or does he get Sagan to decipher the letters? He wonders where the tips come from, where it clearly states in the letter several times that it's a dentists' burr. So bad it's criminal (runs in the family, eh Dave?) :)
They look a lot like Dremel bits to be fair. www.dremel.com/en_US/products/-/show-product/accessories/110-engraving-cutter
Minute i saw them in that characteristic holder i knew what they were! Back in my distant past i recall a dated stock store chain that specialized in medical/surgical items. There were 100s of different sized titanium hip-joints all the way to bone screws, plates and rods and even the tools to drive it all. The section of dentist stuff i found the burrs and i bought up probably 20packs out of 'hoarder interest" for a few dollars and have used them for years drilling PCBs. I think they are titanium as opposed carbide from the sound they make if you lightly drop one on a hard surface and they remain as sharp as hell but can snap. I've almost run out now. I bet there's some law now that says you can only buy them if your are licensed medical practitioner....
Would buy some of those probes for my meter. I'm kinda tired of my fluke probes slipping off shit I'm testing.
"A multimeter strapped on the back of your hand" xD That was the best laugh I've had in a while.
Where do I order one?!
Really that's not a bad idea in the field....
Hmmm, how do you read the display while holding the probes with both hands?
We use AMX controllers at work. they use them to choose what input (computer, dvd, camera) displays on what device (dual tv, projector, monitor) etc.
The screws are the programing interface. Before it's packaged it is set on a jig to load the final settings/program. No connector required. Case doesn't have to be opened after assembly.
Using the screws as a programming interface is somewhat brilliant.
As someone that works on both electronics and cars, I can see no reasonable application for a strap-on meter. Innova makes a great deal of automotive repair products like OBD-II scanners and the like.
The designer was so impressed holding his strap-on in his hand he HAD to seek a patent for it..
Mailbox again Dave? Your channel has really changed you never play Minecraft anymore ;)
Hey, I have *THE* perfect idea for a multimeter mount for team of an industrial electrician and a helper: The multimeter gets mounted on the back of a hard hat of the helper, and a footswitch for sequentially switching through its modes goes into the rear pocket of his trousers. Like that, the electrician will at all times have his hands free to twiddle knobs, make notes on a clipboard or similar or hold a mug of coffee while the helper keeps the probes where they have to be! ^^)
Where do I have to call to get this remarkable design idea patented?
International paten granted. Your patent certification will be sent shortly.
Yay! :oD
Lol.😂
I thought you proved that mailbag WASN’T everyone’s favorite segment.
I considered buying an Open Pandora back in the day, but despite their efforts to reduce cost it was pretty damn expensive
The screws are for programming the device and assosciating internal keys with client account. And synchronizing clock.
The screws on the RaboPlus is for initial programming.
I think the non slip tips are dental drills, quite a clever thing to do.
At 37:40 the included note strongly suggests that they are, indeed, dental drills.
Yes, and a friend of mine had an old dental drill and the bits came in very similar cases. When Dave mentioned the guy worked with dental equipment i got very sure.
They looks like some proxxon router bits I have. :-)
AMX is a building automation and audio visual automation interface. You can write your own custom firmware if need be, but generally are installed in situations such as conference rooms, lecture halls, etc.
Mailbag is still the best and most entertaining part of your channel. By the way I also like your teardown videos of old computer stuff. Maybe you should add the strip to your next meter, it is really the best invention ever happened to a multimeter. Thanks for your videos, I started watching them 4 years ago.
You make me interested again building electronic stuff, I did not do anything for about 10 years with my trusty old Weller soldering station.
Now I'm back with electronic with my own little channel just hit the number of 320 subscribers, but this is already great that people like to watch me.
I think the board patterns on the one time pad are used to initially program it. The screws are connections to the programmer.
Edit:
A lot of people are mentioning this.
I was working on AMX system a while ago. Mostly used in earlier home audio & video automation systems. Now replaced by RTI & Servant, Sensormatic. But still come across it now and then.
Intellectual property absurdity tickles me too. One of my favourites has to be Apple V Google when they claimed Google had violated their patent on a swipe gesture by providing tap interaction because _clearly_ a "tap" is really a "zero-length swipe".
And that's exactly what you get when a country lets more than half its "finest and brightest" young intellects, become unproductive belligerent lawyers instead of creative scientists and engineers.
I look forward to seeing high-current experiments with that 400F cap!
34:20 "Wow ...fondle those all day" Hmmmm Dave.
i see you noticed also.
for sure publishing this vid was delayed, at least one day ;)
Like me Dave is obviously a boob man 🥰
Abnormally good times. Nice job Dave. Thanks.
22:50 - If all else fails, read the instructions ;)
For me the test probes are drills for the dentist. But, as you said, very nice.
maybe making it boot up to white would be a nice starter thing for beginners to do with that light
The non slip points are carbide burrs sold in China for 2.99 for ten pieces. Generally used in Dremel type tools.
The screws on the token, and PCB trace inductors made me wonder if you could actually detect a decrease in inductance when the screws are removed?
29:59 - possible programming contacts via the screws so they can individualize to each customer. Possibly a high voltage programmer.
Agreed on the handgrip strap patent dim LCD DMM being utter BullShite Dave. Part of my career i worked for a major Japanese Electronics Company in London in the 80s doing Engineering Support on their products. One day they sent me to Tokyo to visit their factory and have some on hand repair training courses for their products. I was truly impressed when one of their older assembly line techs picked up a DMM and held it into the palm of his hand with 3 fingers of his hand and "chopsticked" the probes with the other two as he held the PCB in his left and metered out some test lands. Who needs a silly strap thing eh?
The last Open Pandora sold on eBay netted $400 last September.
I want to see that 400F capacitor in action!!!
Yes, Mailbag! My favourite format!
That DMM Patent xD Shows that you can basically patent everything.
On the Pixel light it would be cool to program it for long exposure photography so that by swiping it across the frame while the shutter is open it spells out a message, creates a cool patterned ribbon of light in the air, etc
26:40 I think you are looking for One Time Pin (one time pad is an encryption technique) used as part of a 2FA (two/second factor authentication) scheme. That particular unit has Vasco on the back, they are one of the major produces of these devices along with RSA. A friend of mine worked for Vasco in their Brisbane office.
Theory: The spirals on the bank OTP PCB are antennas. IN-L and IN-R are inputs, and there's at least one output higher up. That there are two might suggest differential signaling. It's probably how they program the thing, right through the case and possibly without even opening the box, so they don't have to trust the manufacturer to do it. No unscrewing anything or hooking up a cable. Just put it in a cradle and it programs whatever data it needs.
Someone else suggested programming it through the screws, but then what are the spirals for? Maybe the screws are in the loop to boost reception. They could also be measuring capacitance on the screws to see if someone took off the back cover, using the same pins the antennas go to.
If the spirals aren't antennas, they're inductors.
I program AMX for a living! Im very familiar with the 5200i which is almost the same as your 5150
willyarma I'm a Crestron programmer, glad to know there's more of us AV guys out there on this channel! I'm even in Phoenix, wouldn't mind going and having a beer with whoever sent that in, clearly their and my interests are somewhat aligned.
It was a 5200i. They use a common board to the 5150.
Ryan Finney Ive got 2 5200s in bits on my desk right now! and I never noticed that! :)
5200's are always in bits. Whether voluntarily on their own or not!
Yeah yeah he said the battery expanded and destroy it. Oh really? Never! Haha
I used to work for AVX, operating a huge automated crane thing, which put pallets of caps into different chemical baths, and then into a 12 hour bake.
The oven was in the centre of two large halls (each about 35ft square?), so the crane on the output side of the oven would then put the caps through yet more chem baths, before rinsing them off.
The automation wasn't so clever, as it didn't detect certain things, like if you left the table down for where it places the pallets.
If you did, it would happily drop the entire pallet from a height of about 10 feet. lol
Each pallet much have had about 20,000 tantalum caps on it, with the ends of the caps dangling down, and the anode (I think) welded to some small metal sheets.
The tantalum caps had to use a sintering oven as well, and it could apparently take half the building with it if it ever exploded.
Definitely one of the toughest shifts I'd done (before or since). It was four 12-hour shifts, four days on / four days off.
tbh, I'm surprised that the stuff I made actually worked. lol
The crane system apparently got sold off to a company in the Czech Republic, before the factory in Paignton was closed.
(it used to be next to the old Nortel site, which was also demolished about 7 years ago. It was the largest employer in the bay.)
I worked for a short while back in the old AVX building, after a small telecoms company took over.
(made up mainly of ex-Nortel employees and engineers).
The telecoms company also eventually folded, and I think most of the stuff is made in China now.
The weird traces coming off those screws could also be measuring static or some such to generate randomness for the crypto
The programming with pogo plugs suggestion seems dodgy to me, but it could be I guess
It's shown in the patent illustration, top left corner. The doc shows four pads and corresponding pins on a separate unit
To the person who sent in the AMX panel, if you're out of Scottsdale AZ let's meet up! I'm a Crestron/C4/Savant programmer out of Phoenix :)
in the netherlands the rabobank does provide a more fancier reader/scanner these days.
the new scanner does have a small camera on the back so it can scan somekind of QR code (color dots) for each transaction you need to aprove.
it still generates a "one time" code that you need to enter in the banking app or on their website.
It's kind of difficult to see clearly, but if you look in the screw holes at IN-R and IN-L (at about 30:57), it looks like those holes are not fully plated through. Could that be a 4-layer board with the outer layers being plated and layers 2 and 3 missing in those areas, allowing the top and bottom layers to be squeezed together when the screws are tightened (and opening a circuit when the screws are loosened or removed)? Also, I think you need to make a Kick Starter with a couple of those little joysticks on it, kind of like a new type of fidget toy. Keep up the good work.
Some people seem to think the weird screw traces on the one time pad are for programming. My first thought is that they are used as floating-base antennae for gathering entropy... The curious thing is there are 2 labeled 'IN', and another labeled 'OUT'...
I feel like we got a little to much look into the personal life of David Jones in the middle there. Haha
Before people start commenting that this video was "paid" again (this time by AVX), please just give Dave a brake. Sit back in your seet, relax, and enjoy the video! Mailbag is the *best*!
The screws on the one-time-pad might be to "program" the item in the bank.
Maybe you can fix the pandora. Its an open system and so all the documentation is accesable: Schematic: pyra-handheld.com/boards/resources/pandora-pcb-open-files.4550/
And the wiki: pandorawiki.org/Main_Page
And the oficial site: pyra-handheld.com (pyra is the sucsesor which will be available next year i belive)
He should.
Considering how long some of us had to wait for their Pandora (and how much it cost), it would be a shame if he didn't!
The probe tips look a lot like the tiny carbide burrs I use on my Dremel tool...
huh... funny coincidence to find the TI WY245 (SN74AVC32T245 interesting!) Part in two different 2-minute-teardowns in the same mailbag :D (AMX Controller and Pandora)
On the token, the screw holes through the board looked odd, almost like the screw holes had separate layers on either side of the board, with no via connecting the 2 sides. Was thinking that maybe it is used to detect screw removal...with the screw in, the top side of the board is connected to the bottom, but the connection is broken when the screw is removed. But in reading the other comments I do believe that it is for programming just prior to use. That makes the spark gaps make sense too, to prevent accidental ESD discharges (like static from pulling it out of your pocket) to keep it from damaging the processor.
I think the screws on that key generator device are electrically connected to the chip so the COB can be programmed after assembly. The needs of crypto likely mean that each unit has a serial number burned in and some software that might need updating, so it should be possible to program the thing from a sort of cradle that contacts those screws.
The elastic band on the meter was quite funny, I wonder if a small lcd dispaly on the plastic tip end of a probe would be of any use. Save a few milliseconds looking up at a screen.
The screw connections could be connected to an analog read pin to be used as floating voltages for a random number generator?
Crazy: Take a look again at 12:14 and 34:09
Both the AMX thing and the gaming device happen to use the TI Part labeled "WY245" in this rather unusual package.
Those probes look exactly like dental drills I have.
screw terminals are probably so they can load the private key into the COB processors after manufacturing.
You’re like a kid on Christmas, I love it
@ 23:20 "Attiny85 running at 16 Mhz" How does this work? The Attiny has 2 internal clock sources: 1.6 Mhz and 8 Mhz...
Security screws on one time pin device are puzzling. Hope Dave can sort that out further and let us know how that works.
31:10: Could this be just a programming interface using the screws as contacts?
That's a really interesting idea! Possibly each could be programmed prior to being handed out to clients at a branch location? Not too sure on the units purpose.
possible. Maybe they assemble them first and then program them over the screws.
Yea I would agree, also looks like they are there in the patent, fig1 28a through 28d...
We have the same banking code generating thingies where I live, same company that makes them too. When you go to the bank to get one they put it in what looks like a little docking station. I used to think they used RFID to set them up as they don't have any external connections until I asked a guy who works with them, and he said they connect via the screws. So after seeing the insides of one it really makes sense.
The spirals are then probably meant to increase the inductance of the trace going towards the logic. That would prevent any fast transients (ESD) from damaging the logic and instead force the majority of the current over the spark gap.
I got a revision 1 open Pandora, sometimes the batteries lose all charge, I managed to coax my batteries to life by holding it at a slight angle for a few mins whilst charging the Pandora unit
Excellent context as per non-standard norms!. Ref meter elasticated banded DMM, I had the pleasure of using a Chauvin Arnoux instrument new circa 1982/3 in Belgium, with single band. Quite small in size, lovely large meter movement taking most of the meters physical size circa 120 X 70 X 45 mm. Again we are all lucky to have such a knowledgeable individual sharing and informing, with humour of course. Here is a quote from a salesman from a similar era " What we don't want is a ongoing negative situation".
it's a pandora 😍😍😍 rarity! it was a kickstarter project and only a couple of them made it to customers
The Pandora lived a full life, and its maker and community has been feverishly working on the follow up -- the Pyra; the Pyra preorders happened (maybe still open), and an expected ship date in 2017.
pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/
Double sided PCB that are not connected and the screw close the circuit. When you remove the screw it breaks the connection and opens the circuit. Pretty simple design. Se inside the hole and check if theres continuity.
Ooooo nice to know some more higher end caps.
I only put in high end caps in my pinball boards that I re-cap or repair. :)
Those screw terminals are certainly for programming that pin code when giving them otp device to the customer?
Maybe they send data over screws? And use them as contacts. Spark gap is just protection from ESD that might appear during normal use.
The sad part is that they received both a utility and a design patent (the “D” prefix patent) for a rubber band and a multimeter.
31.00 maybe static safety from removing the screws to change the battery? ?
about the security device - could it be that they use the screws as external access points to re-program the device?
Pixel designer seems to be *confused between mAh and mA* . - 23:24 I count 4 spots where he/she should have used mA and not mAh. (Unless the circuit actually turns off when it has used 600mAh!) It looks kinda cool but this mix up makes me wonder.
yes, that really does not look professional - they should revisit these data before they go public...
Essentially all places except for the battery capacity are mixed up!
Too me it makes me question the quality and reliability of a design when they get such simple stuff wrong. If they don't know the simple stuff what else did they screw up?
This is just a simple oversight on a hastily-drafted letter to Dave regarding the kit. Yeah, I missed it, it is a mistake. Mistakes happen. I was in a hurry to get the letter done and ship out the package. The real lesson here is that I should have skipped my heart meds that morning as they tend to make me a little fuzzy sometimes, or I should have just waited a few hours and then read through the letter again before sending.
If you are going to judge my engineering and design skills, I would ask that you judge my engineering and design skills, rather than just critique a very-quickly-drafted letter to Dave. After all, the letter only took minutes to draft whereas the PIXEL is the culmination of months of engineering and design work, testing and refinement.
I encourage you to pick one up via a pledge to the ongoing Kickstarter campaign, and when you receive it, analyze and critique the hell out of it. I, like pretty much everyone, learn by doing something, and then learning from any mistakes or missed-opportunities to make something better than it is. To this end, I do appreciate feedback in regards to my designs.
Oh the Pandora... that brings back some bad memories. The joysticks were custom designed for that one. They had two people taking orders for the first batch, Craig and EvilDragon. According to EvilDragon, Craig did a runner with lots of the order money, so of the 4000 initial orders, about 500 of them didn't get the device. And I'm one of those who was left high and dry. That 1Ghz version was the second run. Imagine my surprise to see Craigs name in the thank you sicker under the battery. I'd be avoiding these guys like the plague.
I'm in the same boat as you. Although I'm quite excited for the Pyra (pandora's successor) and since craig isn't involved things are actually going well
This is absolutely my favorite segment
An Automotive multimeter doesn't need the HRC fuses and MOVs used for mains rated multimeters. That may change with modern electric and plug in hybrid cars with their massive battery banks and high power charging connectors.
Rabobank is actually a Dutch bank, and also have banks in NZ.
I love AVX caps specially for SWPS applications, their datasheets are very easy to read
Maybe the screws connect both sides of the PCB so when you remove them the crypto stuff is deleted from the memory?
Aww! My one isn't in it again!
sorry pup
Yeah, I sent him all that gold bullion *months* ago now... I'm starting to think someone from the postal service's nicked it.
I remember the time someone sent dave some woman's underwear! lol
A lot late right now but on the openpandora the backlight inductors would fail. If you get status leds that come on it's likely still working just no display backlight. Mine works fine via the display output cable which was pretty specialized. It is sitting on my desk waiting to be fixed but my smartphone does everything this did just faster. Not sure if it's worth the time to fix.
Love the mailbag! The "strap on" multimeter was too funny. ROFLOL
31:10 - I'm guessing it detects the 50Hz HUM (60 Hz in US) presented to the screw when using a screwdriver!
super caps are really good for replacing automotive batteries!
Hi Dave, the Rabobank is a Dutch international bank, see: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabobank
seems like a nice open company. You certainly need trust in your products when sending them to you after seeing you talk about capacitor cracking.
On the bank token generator the battery slides out the bottom by the looks of it.
Yes do people want fire installed nasally? We should patent it just in case.
"what, another mailbag?" "Oh look another sponsored video" 😂
Keep up the great videos!
probe tips are off the shelf dental burrs, the coupler is custom.
I know at least one person with no thumb who might find the strapable multimeter useful.
the one time pad actually refers to the only perfectly secure crypto algorithm, it just xoring key and data bit by bit so you need a random key of the same length as the data you can only use one time so transfering so highly impractical
I remember the Pandora was like handmade and 400€, you had to wait 2 years before it shipped, which was why I always stayed clear
Microprobing - an accurate description of my sex life
Rabobank is not from New Zeeland, is's from The Netherlands. They are expanding their imperium around the world.
I really wish someone would build a wireless computer mouse with a supercap as power source. Either with an inductive mouse pad to charge it on, or even a normal charging station with 2 contacts would be OK. Since a normal computer mouse can run 6 months or more of daily use on 1 AA battery, it should be possible to get a day's use out of the right supercap, and after the day it can be put into the charging station again and be ready for the next day. I know there once was a product like that, but it was discontinued. What a waste to use batteries for that!