Last year I made my license and I wanted to buy a flight computer over the winter period to get ready for the new season. Made my research and ended up with a LX nano + XCSoar on a Android phone. Additionally, I bought a 10000mAh power bank and a non-reflective screen protector for the phone. The visibility of the phone in direct sunlight is now almost the same as an Oudie. And that is a fraction of the cost of an Oudie IGC with the same or even better functionality. :)
This is one of those situations where I only ever saw it written down so didn't know how to pronounce it, and thanks to my Kiwi accent it came out like Audi! And I guess I pronounced it the same way as the ou in 'loud'.
When I purchased my glider last fall, I was looking for a soaring app to fly with before committing to a more sophisticated glide computer, then I discovered SeeYou Navigator. I used it for a while and it's great! It's super user friendly and is likely going to become more popular as features are added and utility improves over time. I recently tried out XCSoar and now see why it has such a big following, what a great piece of software! I haven't been using these types of navigation tools for very long, but it's great to see the variety and utility of each of them.
Yeah SeeYou Navigator is improving rapidly, and in the meantime XCSoar is a fantastic alternative. I'm more excited about SeeYou Navigator, so I don't have to have another device in the cockpit, as I already need my phone for other things. But I do have XCSoar on a 7" tablet, and an Oudie!
As a programmer i am stunned anything still works on CE. It was not great when it came out. Kudos to Naviter for being able to keep it going. One other reason for a new system rather than any updating of the old code, they would have a horrible time finding programmers who would work on that old stuff.
4:00 Regarding zooming; on android phones a common shortcut for zooming on maps is to doubletap+drag up/down. Works great for 1 handed operation. May want to see if it works for this app too!
I totally agree with your review. Just add my personal experience in using CU Navigator as a back up in a recent flight (I use an Oudie and SYM connected to a Nano): it drained completely my phone's battery in less than a couple of hour. The missing competition/task features are a great minus right now, and probably Naviter wants to delay them because it will likely mean the death of Oudie/classical SYM. Also, I still have many doubts about using continuatively a smartphone in the hot summer days here in Italy. Great app, anyway. Thanks for reviewing! P.S.: Since last season and for many years, I've been using LK8000, great software, but less "professional" than SeeYou.
I asked Naviter about the lack of contest features. They assure me it's simply a priority and time issue, getting the basics working first. Then add contest features next. Which I can understand as I develop software too, so it does make sense. Sounds like they are happy to get people to switch from Oudies asap. And because they've gone to subscription, I guess it's in their interest to! Unfortunately all phones that use GPS will use a lot of power. I can run my iPhone 12 Pro Max for hours no problem, but it's got a huge battery and is not that old. Also while flying the cell reception isn't so good, so the phone as to boost the radio power levels trying to stay connected, and that drains the battery fast also. Cheers!
I have been using a smartphone with LK8000 as my main navigation aid since 2008/2009, overheating never has been a problem during flight, not even on the hottest days (30+ degrees).. I had an overheating issue once, but was caused on the ground when I left my phone in the cockpit, on a 35 degree Celsius day, in the full sun, without the cover on for 15 minutes... My current phone is a Nokia 8, which has a bright display, MUCH better than the Oudi. smoother, brighter, more contrast... LK8000 buttons and menu's look a bit outdated now, but the functionality and underlying software are excellent.
Hello Pure . Can you do an update on your view of the 'Seeyou Navigator v3.2.0' . Are you now happier with all the updates and especially the Contest & Task Flighing & ICG Logging or approved logging. ipad support It would be a good video, especially as your videos are followed here in the UK too. Thankyou Pure Glide & keep going.
Thanks Tim for another great video. I've been using SeeYou navigator for a couple of weeks, and was looking for a good video to help me configure and set it up, this video was a great intro to that. However, it seems that this app has come on quite a lot since you did this video, would be great if you were to revisit it and do an update.
Hi no don't think either of those are there yet. So only suitable for basic navigation at this stage, and you'll need to work out speed to fly on something else.
Agree - I found this app a few weeks ago and find it more intuative the XC - which is a great attribute if you are a beginning Xcountry pilot with plenty of other stuff going on
Yeah why the hell would I want to loose orientation constantly as I fly?! I just don't get it! I guess I use the map primarily to orient myself where I am in the airspace, whereas track up people focus more on what's ahead I guess?! How do they not run into airspace?! we have very complicated airspace here...
Depends what you’re used to. I’ve been using track/heading up in airliners since 1986. I like that the map has the same orientation as the real world out the window (and would choose heading up (Airbus style) over track up (Boeing style) given a chance. Adjust the zoom to see farther ahead for restrictions, etc.
@@PureGlide I find track up very easy to use, just steer the black heading line to the magenta course line, or the blue crabbing arrow to adjust for the wind, I have never ran into an airspace that I did not know was there.. LK8000 warns miles ahead before that happens. (it uses sonar pings to let you know you are getting closer, the higher the frequency of pings the closer you are, and also on the display plenty of warnings and information). Never been disoriented this way, pretty much know where I am at all times.
Tim you missed a very important safety issue. Navigator v2 only measures the glide to a landing at zero macready - ie you are never going to make it. I contacted naviter about this, they are working on adding adjustable safety macready One way around this problem is to choose an ancient glider from then list like a Balanik . Naviter are unwise to release the software without a warning about this.
Cheers mate! yes exactly right, the Oudie N is the same software as on the phone. The key reasons to buy an Oudie N over your phone are: - In the future (but not yet) you can buy the IGC version. - Bigger battery than your phone (no battery pack needed). - Nice bright outdoor suitable screen. - Won't overheat like my iPhone does (which them dims the screen)
I found this a very useful video thanks, and look forward to a video on xc soar. One feature I appreciate in my current Oudie setup is the pito data input that enables accurate wind speed calculation and readout. This pito data of mine comes down a wire from a Borgelt B500. How would I replicate this to my android smartphone?
Hi Frank, you're only ever going to be able to bluetooth to this app because that's really the only way to connect to phones these days. SeeYou have just bought out some bluetooth dongles for various devices e.g. the LX gear and FLARMs, but I doubt there is one for the Borgelt sadly. But you never know, it might be possible, but unlikely to be enough demand for them to support every type of vario that exists. Here are the bluetooth dongles naviter.com/seeyou-navigator/
I am doing some serious experiments with the Raspberry Pi 4B and OpenGL (interfaced through GLFW)... It is giving surprisingly good results. I am programming the application by myself in Ada and using 3D printed parts. I would post the link to my blog, but google refuses to post my comment then :-D The idea is to open source it...
I've only used the Naviter Navigator app on my phone which is the same software, but it works much better now, and supports all the contest stuff properly now too. So it's much more usable now.
Looks really good, should be an excellent for the casual pilot / club glider :) Might look into paying the subscription in order to test the Skysight overlay options! In my glider (LS6) I have a 7" Openvario flight computer and operate it using the buttons/hats switch on my control stick. The first revelation was the map/screen, the second was adding remote stick control, making the in-cockpit workflow a literal breeze :D Prior to that I used LX Colibri and iPaq and removing that clutter was a bonus. Happy flying!
Yeah that is the ultimate, having a remote stick with screen on the dash! Hard to go back to tablets now.. but I still have XCSoar on a tablet incase I'm flying other gliders
I expect Naviter are holding back the missing features to protect remaining sales of the Oudie. In due course I expect they will market a new Android device offering advantages over a phone as a platform for this application. Currently it does not stand up against XC Soar because of the missing features, nor against the Oudie IGC which gives approved logging, an all day battery, a backup vario, and what I subjectively find to be still the best glide computer program. I've been playing with it but still flying with my Oudie IGC alongside my LX9000.
I asked Naviter if they are holding back tasks for any particular reason, but their answer is it's simply a matter of priorities. I'm a programmer so know exactly what this is like, and it makes sense. Get basic flying, logging, and connection to bluetooth devices working well first. What contest pilots aren't going to be using it if those features aren't working reliably? And it covers 75% (a guess) of glider pilots who only fly casually. It's had a year or more to flesh out the basic issues with version one. Then focus on tasks. Implementing tasking is a big chunk of work. You have to provide editing screens to edit the task, import from soaring spot, import/export task files, embed tasks in the IGC files created, a huge array of data fields need to be set up, plus the task drawing and algorithms. It's not just a single feature to be whipped up in a weekend. And you can imagine serious contest pilots aren't going to switch to this for tasks until it's got everything working they need including AAT tasks, racing, start line detection, task final glide calculators etc. I get the feeling they are working on it, and tasks will come in time. Join the beta programme and you will be able to test the upcoming features earlier.
@@PureGlide Agreed, programming is not as easy as many people think. Often, you develop an application that is working perfectly (as intended). Only to find, when you give it to a user to try, they do something unforeseen (stupid?) to it, resulting in a major crash of the program….. Back to square one….
@@denniscook390 I have worked as a software developer and systems engineer for many different companies. You can believe me if I tell you that some systems are just too complex to test for all possible scenarios…
@@Johan-ex5yjOf course, I agree, but as a software developer from many years ago I always spent most of my effort considering 'user errors'. Foreseeing the unforeseen.
I'll re-comment since I somehow got a notification about your previous video. How do gliders needs compare to powered EFB systems? Obviously things like fuel burn are not relevant, what about things like time, TAS based on winds etc?
Hey sorry about that, I had to re-upload the video. The key thing we care about on a navigation device are: - How far to the turnpoint (we have to turn at a certain distance during contests or tasks). - Am I on glide to the destination or not. Just that one thing is very complicated to calculate, and requires information on: the glide performance of the glider at different speeds, how much water we have on board, how much safety altitude we want to add, wind direction and strength at different altitudes, how clean the wings are, strength of the upcoming and previous thermals and what the weather looks like ahead. And of course you might have to go around a turnpoint or three first. Simple! You can see why we need a computer to help...
@@PureGlide Ah yeah, that reminds me of an example I was given during aerodynamics class "You lost engine power over a lake filled with dangerous crocodiles and snakes (obviously not NZ since you guys have no snakes). You have a passenger onboard and you are worried about reaching a island in the distance. You throw your passenger out the window being the nice person you are. Does that improve the glide distance to your destination". Eg nil wind it'll just make you slower but won't help you survive the crocodiles and snakes. I'm guessing you guys are much more civilised in the gliding world so just prefer to use the water rather than removing your passengers midair.
@@glennwatson Well, that's an interesting question and one I suspect most people would get wrong in some way? In a glider, and I assume any plane without an engine also counts, removing ballast does not affect the glide ratio. What it changes is the glide ratio at various speeds, but the maximum glide ratio remains the same. Just to achieve it you need to fly at a slightly slower speed. In glider speak, we "shift the polar curve", but it doesn't change shape :) That's why we put water on, so we can glide the same distance, but get there faster. What it does do is slow our climbing ability, just as you would imagine, so on very light days we don't put water ballast on. What was your answer?!
@@PureGlide We were taught would likely make your life harder in nil wind, since you'd have to slow down to get your new best glide speed. In a head wind it would likely make it a bit worse since you're now in the wind for longer and therefore the headwind will have more impact on your aircraft. Tailwind is the only scenario where it might make it better.
@@glennwatson Yeah that sounds right - adding wind to the equation just adds to the complexity. I like it! P.S. It's the actual Kiwis you have to watch out for, they are know to skewer people with their long beaks...
Good stuff! Despite what I said about it being old, it does work very well for navigating with. It'll be quite a while before the new system can replace all it's features. The best tutorials are from Cumulus soaring I think. One day I'll make some videos about it, but don't hold your breath! www.cumulus-soaring.com/store/naviter-oudie-igc www.cumulus-soaring.com/seeyou/Oudie-Tips.pdf Golden rules: - Always save settings after changing any settings, or task or ANYTHING. - Never turn it off without shutting down and saving. and then you won't loose a task when you spend ages putting one in!!
I haven't tried it, unfortunately you kinda have to buy it to try it. Well, that used to be the case at least... it's tricky to add demos to iOS Apps. I have no idea how much development they're doing on it, but at least you know Naviter will be going hard on it.
Review needs to be updated; the Oudie N and software Ver 2 addresses many of the shortcomings identified with more improvements to come, todays it’s close to a personal portable LX9000
Great video! Good that SeeYou mobile is now available on Android and IOS (its about time!). .. I might switch back to SeeYou.. IF the task and competition features come back.... But you have an I-Phone, right? Why not using I-glide? My buddies who have I-Phones all use I-glide. I use my Phone (a Nokia 8, Android 9, which has a very bright display) with LK8000 'Tactical Flight Computer' App as my main navigation device, which is a free open source app and has really excellent final glide, task and competition features build in (same basic source code as XCsoar), connected with the redbox via a wifi hub, which also connects my S80 electric vario to LK8000, via Bluetooth my KRT2 radio is connected to LK8000, which makes switching to other airport frequencies a breeze... The maps are not very detailed, but who cares about the maps, as long as all important cities highways, airspaces and what not are displayed it works very well. It does have fancy mountain shading that adapts with the time of day. LK8000 has a clever user interface using short and long clicks and clicks in certain areas on the screen, this takes a bit of getting used to, but works in the end very well in a shaky cockpit with fat fingers where accurate clicking is virtually impossible. The big buttons and menus look a bit outdated now, but I do not think the looks are important, the app works really well and is light on CPU and memory usage I have been using LK8000 now for over 12 years, before that I used SeeYou mobile on an old HP HX4700 handheld device (this was before the Smartphones came out in 2007). On my first Smartphone, a HTC HD2 Windows CE based phone, I installed LK8000 for the first time and never looked back to SeeYou. The IGC files of LK8000 are valid for OLC, and the competitions I have been flying also accept these IGC files... I am not interested in badges or record flights, and actually regret I paid the extra money for an IGC approved redbox.
Never tried iGlide, because you have to pay for it and i can't try it out first. Plus the graphics are ugly, so don't really want to invest in it. A shallow reason I realise... XCSoar works great on a cheap tablet, and now have the LX9000 anyway... Cheers for your comments!
I use Flyme (Android app) for paragliding... for me, it is all I need. And it is free. Navigator is sure very good... but it is just not 'my cup of tea' :-)
Yeah whatever works basically! The affordable option of XCSoar is always good for anyone not wanting to spend any money, and will do 95% of what everyone needs. Only the new internet stuff like weather overlays it won't do.
@@PureGlide Exactly... I can imagine some of this functionality is more important for glider pilot, but bit less for paraglider pilot. We witness merging of different technologies, i.e. mobile phones/tablets, connectivity, specialized sensors, apps - so end user (pilot) can really chose most suitable for his/her needs.
Very interesting video. Thanks for it!!! Now that I am designing my new pannel for a single seater, this information is much appreciated. I used to flight with XCsoar linked to my S100 in my Janus, and I was thinking about using navigator 2, but if this software doesn't allow task modes...I will continue using XCsoar.
Hi you need to load them in via SeeYou.cloud, they should then show up in the phone app. Note with the free version I don’t think you can load your own waypoints
@@PureGlide I got the subscription on both cloud and navigator. I uploaded the waypoint file to cloud, but there is no way to get it to the right collection "my waypoints" So it shows up on cloud, but not on the device-
@@GeirWaterloo I just tested it. Here's what I did: 1) Go to seeyou.cloud and login 2) Click the menu button top left, and choose 'upload' 3) upload the cup file. It should then appear under "collections". 4) On the phone the collections list should mirror the cloud version. If it doesn't, try force quitting the app and re-opening it, that did it for me as a way to force it to reload the list.
@@PureGlide Thank you for your answer. The problem was that I bought cloud first, and then bought Navigator. I ended up with 2 cloud accounts. Hope they will give me a refund for the cloud subscription, as it is included in Navigator :) Its working now, when I found the cloud account my navigator was talking to.
Well for a start if you have an iPhone or iPad, you can't run XCSoar very easily. Possible, but not easy. Secondly, XCSoar is amazing but it also was created a long time ago, so internet features are minimal and bolted on. Aesthetically it's uglier IMO. And harder to use for beginners. The graphics drawing system is from the 90s. I don't think it supports SkySight weather if you use that. However Navigator simply doesn't have task features yet, among many other things so XCSoar and SeeYou Mobile still win hands down if you need to fly tasks at all, and want this as your primary device. Even if they added all these features, you might personally still prefer XCSoar or SeeYou Mobile and the way it works. That's fine, they're not going away.
I'm happy with XCsoar. I bring my own device and setup when jumping from seat to seat in the club gliders. With a favorable pricing model but maybe has lost a little of momentum on development recently.
Last year I made my license and I wanted to buy a flight computer over the winter period to get ready for the new season. Made my research and ended up with a LX nano + XCSoar on a Android phone. Additionally, I bought a 10000mAh power bank and a non-reflective screen protector for the phone. The visibility of the phone in direct sunlight is now almost the same as an Oudie. And that is a fraction of the cost of an Oudie IGC with the same or even better functionality. :)
Yeah a good way to go!
We pronounce it “ooooodeeeeeee” not Audi as in the motor car! Great little video as usual thanks for posting!
This is one of those situations where I only ever saw it written down so didn't know how to pronounce it, and thanks to my Kiwi accent it came out like Audi! And I guess I pronounced it the same way as the ou in 'loud'.
When I purchased my glider last fall, I was looking for a soaring app to fly with before committing to a more sophisticated glide computer, then I discovered SeeYou Navigator. I used it for a while and it's great! It's super user friendly and is likely going to become more popular as features are added and utility improves over time.
I recently tried out XCSoar and now see why it has such a big following, what a great piece of software! I haven't been using these types of navigation tools for very long, but it's great to see the variety and utility of each of them.
Yeah SeeYou Navigator is improving rapidly, and in the meantime XCSoar is a fantastic alternative. I'm more excited about SeeYou Navigator, so I don't have to have another device in the cockpit, as I already need my phone for other things. But I do have XCSoar on a 7" tablet, and an Oudie!
As a programmer i am stunned anything still works on CE. It was not great when it came out. Kudos to Naviter for being able to keep it going. One other reason for a new system rather than any updating of the old code, they would have a horrible time finding programmers who would work on that old stuff.
Yeah I guess the key thing is CE/Windows Mobile didn't change much, so if somethings working it won't break!
4:00 Regarding zooming; on android phones a common shortcut for zooming on maps is to doubletap+drag up/down. Works great for 1 handed operation. May want to see if it works for this app too!
There's an option in the settings for changing how it zooms. Cheers for the tip!
I totally agree with your review. Just add my personal experience in using CU Navigator as a back up in a recent flight (I use an Oudie and SYM connected to a Nano): it drained completely my phone's battery in less than a couple of hour. The missing competition/task features are a great minus right now, and probably Naviter wants to delay them because it will likely mean the death of Oudie/classical SYM. Also, I still have many doubts about using continuatively a smartphone in the hot summer days here in Italy. Great app, anyway. Thanks for reviewing! P.S.: Since last season and for many years, I've been using LK8000, great software, but less "professional" than SeeYou.
I asked Naviter about the lack of contest features. They assure me it's simply a priority and time issue, getting the basics working first. Then add contest features next. Which I can understand as I develop software too, so it does make sense. Sounds like they are happy to get people to switch from Oudies asap. And because they've gone to subscription, I guess it's in their interest to!
Unfortunately all phones that use GPS will use a lot of power. I can run my iPhone 12 Pro Max for hours no problem, but it's got a huge battery and is not that old. Also while flying the cell reception isn't so good, so the phone as to boost the radio power levels trying to stay connected, and that drains the battery fast also. Cheers!
I have been using a smartphone with LK8000 as my main navigation aid since 2008/2009, overheating never has been a problem during flight, not even on the hottest days (30+ degrees).. I had an overheating issue once, but was caused on the ground when I left my phone in the cockpit, on a 35 degree Celsius day, in the full sun, without the cover on for 15 minutes...
My current phone is a Nokia 8, which has a bright display, MUCH better than the Oudi. smoother, brighter, more contrast... LK8000 buttons and menu's look a bit outdated now, but the functionality and underlying software are excellent.
Hello Pure .
Can you do an update on your view of the 'Seeyou Navigator v3.2.0' .
Are you now happier with all the updates and especially the Contest & Task Flighing & ICG Logging or approved logging. ipad support
It would be a good video, especially as your videos are followed here in the UK too.
Thankyou Pure Glide & keep going.
Thanks Tim for another great video. I've been using SeeYou navigator for a couple of weeks, and was looking for a good video to help me configure and set it up, this video was a great intro to that. However, it seems that this app has come on quite a lot since you did this video, would be great if you were to revisit it and do an update.
Glad it was helpful! Yeah an update would be good eh
@@PureGlide yep id also like an update , plus a comparison to tother apps out there , like XC Soar
I tried Seeyou, it's really great, very good disply, the only issu is there is no sound for variometer on IOS, I hope Naviter can do it in the futur !
Interesting, I’m surprised it doesn’t, will have to test
Now there is a task option. I used it last summer during a contest works great and you can download form Seeyou cloud
Yeah it’s much improved since I made this video.
Thx for the demo.
I don’t see an option to set a McCready value? Also no terrain - altitude cross section view?
Two pretty essential features.
Hi no don't think either of those are there yet. So only suitable for basic navigation at this stage, and you'll need to work out speed to fly on something else.
Might be time for a follow up video. The Oudie N is out and more changes have been made to See You Navigator including tasking.
Good idea!
Agree - I found this app a few weeks ago and find it more intuative the XC - which is a great attribute if you are a beginning Xcountry pilot with plenty of other stuff going on
YES! North up FTW!
Yeah why the hell would I want to loose orientation constantly as I fly?! I just don't get it! I guess I use the map primarily to orient myself where I am in the airspace, whereas track up people focus more on what's ahead I guess?! How do they not run into airspace?! we have very complicated airspace here...
@@PureGlide Track up means nothing is ever where I left it :)
Depends what you’re used to. I’ve been using track/heading up in airliners since 1986. I like that the map has the same orientation as the real world out the window (and would choose heading up (Airbus style) over track up (Boeing style) given a chance.
Adjust the zoom to see farther ahead for restrictions, etc.
@@PureGlide I find track up very easy to use, just steer the black heading line to the magenta course line, or the blue crabbing arrow to adjust for the wind, I have never ran into an airspace that I did not know was there.. LK8000 warns miles ahead before that happens. (it uses sonar pings to let you know you are getting closer, the higher the frequency of pings the closer you are, and also on the display plenty of warnings and information).
Never been disoriented this way, pretty much know where I am at all times.
Always good stuff
Tim you missed a very important safety issue. Navigator v2 only measures the glide to a landing at zero macready - ie you are never going to make it. I contacted naviter about this, they are working on adding adjustable safety macready One way around this problem is to choose an ancient glider from then list like a Balanik . Naviter are unwise to release the software without a warning about this.
Thanks Chris, they've added the MacCready setting now at least. A safety MacCready setting would be useful as well
So is the new Oudie N basically just their Android running this software or is it anything more? Thanks for all the videos BTW and I love the shirt!!
Cheers mate! yes exactly right, the Oudie N is the same software as on the phone. The key reasons to buy an Oudie N over your phone are:
- In the future (but not yet) you can buy the IGC version.
- Bigger battery than your phone (no battery pack needed).
- Nice bright outdoor suitable screen.
- Won't overheat like my iPhone does (which them dims the screen)
I believe Naviter have updated the system but I don't see much help with manuals. Would you consider doing an update with set-up guidance?
Hi probably not as the audience would be too small sorry! It’s also a bit limited in what it can do yet eg no
McCready
I found this a very useful video thanks, and look forward to a video on xc soar. One feature I appreciate in my current Oudie setup is the pito data input that enables accurate wind speed calculation and readout. This pito data of mine comes down a wire from a Borgelt B500. How would I replicate this to my android smartphone?
Hi Frank, you're only ever going to be able to bluetooth to this app because that's really the only way to connect to phones these days. SeeYou have just bought out some bluetooth dongles for various devices e.g. the LX gear and FLARMs, but I doubt there is one for the Borgelt sadly. But you never know, it might be possible, but unlikely to be enough demand for them to support every type of vario that exists. Here are the bluetooth dongles naviter.com/seeyou-navigator/
I am doing some serious experiments with the Raspberry Pi 4B and OpenGL (interfaced through GLFW)... It is giving surprisingly good results. I am programming the application by myself in Ada and using 3D printed parts. I would post the link to my blog, but google refuses to post my comment then :-D The idea is to open source it...
Yeah awesome to do some 3D stuff, I would like to read your blog, email it to me if you can pureglide@pear.co.nz cheers!
@@PureGlide It is currently only 2D, i'll mail it ;-) I am also trying to catch interest on my club, but I don't want to push too hard. Safety first.
How about an update now that it has some task features?
Funny I was just thinking about that too
So one year has passed. What do you think of the new Oudie N? :)
I've only used the Naviter Navigator app on my phone which is the same software, but it works much better now, and supports all the contest stuff properly now too. So it's much more usable now.
Update video please
Looks really good, should be an excellent for the casual pilot / club glider :)
Might look into paying the subscription in order to test the Skysight overlay options!
In my glider (LS6) I have a 7" Openvario flight computer and operate it using the buttons/hats switch on my control stick. The first revelation was the map/screen, the second was adding remote stick control, making the in-cockpit workflow a literal breeze :D Prior to that I used LX Colibri and iPaq and removing that clutter was a bonus.
Happy flying!
Yeah that is the ultimate, having a remote stick with screen on the dash! Hard to go back to tablets now.. but I still have XCSoar on a tablet incase I'm flying other gliders
@@PureGlide yeah, can´t beat the mobility of the tablet/smart phone. Cost is minimal aswell, as most do have a capable phone already.
I expect Naviter are holding back the missing features to protect remaining sales of the Oudie. In due course I expect they will market a new Android device offering advantages over a phone as a platform for this application. Currently it does not stand up against XC Soar because of the missing features, nor against the Oudie IGC which gives approved logging, an all day battery, a backup vario, and what I subjectively find to be still the best glide computer program. I've been playing with it but still flying with my Oudie IGC alongside my LX9000.
I asked Naviter if they are holding back tasks for any particular reason, but their answer is it's simply a matter of priorities. I'm a programmer so know exactly what this is like, and it makes sense. Get basic flying, logging, and connection to bluetooth devices working well first. What contest pilots aren't going to be using it if those features aren't working reliably? And it covers 75% (a guess) of glider pilots who only fly casually. It's had a year or more to flesh out the basic issues with version one. Then focus on tasks. Implementing tasking is a big chunk of work. You have to provide editing screens to edit the task, import from soaring spot, import/export task files, embed tasks in the IGC files created, a huge array of data fields need to be set up, plus the task drawing and algorithms. It's not just a single feature to be whipped up in a weekend. And you can imagine serious contest pilots aren't going to switch to this for tasks until it's got everything working they need including AAT tasks, racing, start line detection, task final glide calculators etc. I get the feeling they are working on it, and tasks will come in time. Join the beta programme and you will be able to test the upcoming features earlier.
@@PureGlide Agreed, programming is not as easy as many people think.
Often, you develop an application that is working perfectly (as intended).
Only to find, when you give it to a user to try, they do something unforeseen (stupid?) to it, resulting in a major crash of the program….. Back to square one….
@@Johan-ex5yj the stupid one is the programmer who doesn't foresee the unforeseen.
@@denniscook390 I have worked as a software developer and systems engineer for many different companies.
You can believe me if I tell you that some systems are just too complex to test for all possible scenarios…
@@Johan-ex5yjOf course, I agree, but as a software developer from many years ago I always spent most of my effort considering 'user errors'. Foreseeing the unforeseen.
I'll re-comment since I somehow got a notification about your previous video. How do gliders needs compare to powered EFB systems? Obviously things like fuel burn are not relevant, what about things like time, TAS based on winds etc?
Hey sorry about that, I had to re-upload the video. The key thing we care about on a navigation device are:
- How far to the turnpoint (we have to turn at a certain distance during contests or tasks).
- Am I on glide to the destination or not. Just that one thing is very complicated to calculate, and requires information on: the glide performance of the glider at different speeds, how much water we have on board, how much safety altitude we want to add, wind direction and strength at different altitudes, how clean the wings are, strength of the upcoming and previous thermals and what the weather looks like ahead. And of course you might have to go around a turnpoint or three first. Simple! You can see why we need a computer to help...
@@PureGlide Ah yeah, that reminds me of an example I was given during aerodynamics class "You lost engine power over a lake filled with dangerous crocodiles and snakes (obviously not NZ since you guys have no snakes). You have a passenger onboard and you are worried about reaching a island in the distance. You throw your passenger out the window being the nice person you are. Does that improve the glide distance to your destination".
Eg nil wind it'll just make you slower but won't help you survive the crocodiles and snakes.
I'm guessing you guys are much more civilised in the gliding world so just prefer to use the water rather than removing your passengers midair.
@@glennwatson Well, that's an interesting question and one I suspect most people would get wrong in some way? In a glider, and I assume any plane without an engine also counts, removing ballast does not affect the glide ratio. What it changes is the glide ratio at various speeds, but the maximum glide ratio remains the same. Just to achieve it you need to fly at a slightly slower speed. In glider speak, we "shift the polar curve", but it doesn't change shape :) That's why we put water on, so we can glide the same distance, but get there faster. What it does do is slow our climbing ability, just as you would imagine, so on very light days we don't put water ballast on.
What was your answer?!
@@PureGlide We were taught would likely make your life harder in nil wind, since you'd have to slow down to get your new best glide speed. In a head wind it would likely make it a bit worse since you're now in the wind for longer and therefore the headwind will have more impact on your aircraft. Tailwind is the only scenario where it might make it better.
@@glennwatson Yeah that sounds right - adding wind to the equation just adds to the complexity. I like it! P.S. It's the actual Kiwis you have to watch out for, they are know to skewer people with their long beaks...
I just got myslef Naviter Ouide. Do you know about some manual or a video showing how to use all of its functions properly?
Good stuff! Despite what I said about it being old, it does work very well for navigating with. It'll be quite a while before the new system can replace all it's features.
The best tutorials are from Cumulus soaring I think. One day I'll make some videos about it, but don't hold your breath!
www.cumulus-soaring.com/store/naviter-oudie-igc
www.cumulus-soaring.com/seeyou/Oudie-Tips.pdf
Golden rules:
- Always save settings after changing any settings, or task or ANYTHING.
- Never turn it off without shutting down and saving.
and then you won't loose a task when you spend ages putting one in!!
@@PureGlide thanks!
On the Naviter website the Knowledge Base is worth trying
Paul Remde of cumulus-soaring has a good bit of info (and videos) on the oudie.
Here’s one:
www.cumulus-soaring.com/seeyou/Oudie-Tips.pdf
What do you think of the iGlide app for IOS?
I haven't tried it, unfortunately you kinda have to buy it to try it. Well, that used to be the case at least... it's tricky to add demos to iOS Apps. I have no idea how much development they're doing on it, but at least you know Naviter will be going hard on it.
Review needs to be updated; the Oudie N and software Ver 2 addresses many of the shortcomings identified with more improvements to come, todays it’s close to a personal portable LX9000
Yeah agreed I need to do a new one!
Great video! Good that SeeYou mobile is now available on Android and IOS (its about time!). .. I might switch back to SeeYou.. IF the task and competition features come back.... But you have an I-Phone, right? Why not using I-glide? My buddies who have I-Phones all use I-glide.
I use my Phone (a Nokia 8, Android 9, which has a very bright display) with LK8000 'Tactical Flight Computer' App as my main navigation device, which is a free open source app and has really excellent final glide, task and competition features build in (same basic source code as XCsoar), connected with the redbox via a wifi hub, which also connects my S80 electric vario to LK8000, via Bluetooth my KRT2 radio is connected to LK8000, which makes switching to other airport frequencies a breeze... The maps are not very detailed, but who cares about the maps, as long as all important cities highways, airspaces and what not are displayed it works very well. It does have fancy mountain shading that adapts with the time of day.
LK8000 has a clever user interface using short and long clicks and clicks in certain areas on the screen, this takes a bit of getting used to, but works in the end very well in a shaky cockpit with fat fingers where accurate clicking is virtually impossible. The big buttons and menus look a bit outdated now, but I do not think the looks are important, the app works really well and is light on CPU and memory usage
I have been using LK8000 now for over 12 years, before that I used SeeYou mobile on an old HP HX4700 handheld device (this was before the Smartphones came out in 2007). On my first Smartphone, a HTC HD2 Windows CE based phone, I installed LK8000 for the first time and never looked back to SeeYou.
The IGC files of LK8000 are valid for OLC, and the competitions I have been flying also accept these IGC files... I am not interested in badges or record flights, and actually regret I paid the extra money for an IGC approved redbox.
Never tried iGlide, because you have to pay for it and i can't try it out first. Plus the graphics are ugly, so don't really want to invest in it. A shallow reason I realise... XCSoar works great on a cheap tablet, and now have the LX9000 anyway... Cheers for your comments!
Always handy to have an IGC approved logger in glider when it comes time to sell it
I use Flyme (Android app) for paragliding... for me, it is all I need. And it is free. Navigator is sure very good... but it is just not 'my cup of tea' :-)
Yeah whatever works basically! The affordable option of XCSoar is always good for anyone not wanting to spend any money, and will do 95% of what everyone needs. Only the new internet stuff like weather overlays it won't do.
@@PureGlide Exactly... I can imagine some of this functionality is more important for glider pilot, but bit less for paraglider pilot. We witness merging of different technologies, i.e. mobile phones/tablets, connectivity, specialized sensors, apps - so end user (pilot) can really chose most suitable for his/her needs.
Very interesting video. Thanks for it!!! Now that I am designing my new pannel for a single seater, this information is much appreciated. I used to flight with XCsoar linked to my S100 in my Janus, and I was thinking about using navigator 2, but if this software doesn't allow task modes...I will continue using XCsoar.
Tasks are now available, so it’s becoming viable to use full time now
@@PureGlide Good to know!!! Thanks. Would you recommend using it instead of XCsoar?
@@plazaba You still need a vario with GPS if you wanna enter competitions.
I can't figure out how to load my waypoints from a .cup or .dat file to (on iphone). Can anybody tell me the secret?
Hi you need to load them in via SeeYou.cloud, they should then show up in the phone app. Note with the free version I don’t think you can load your own waypoints
@@PureGlide I got the subscription on both cloud and navigator. I uploaded the waypoint file to cloud, but there is no way to get it to the right collection "my waypoints" So it shows up on cloud, but not on the device-
@@GeirWaterloo I just tested it. Here's what I did:
1) Go to seeyou.cloud and login
2) Click the menu button top left, and choose 'upload'
3) upload the cup file. It should then appear under "collections".
4) On the phone the collections list should mirror the cloud version. If it doesn't, try force quitting the app and re-opening it, that did it for me as a way to force it to reload the list.
@@PureGlide Thank you for your answer. The problem was that I bought cloud first, and then bought Navigator. I ended up with 2 cloud accounts. Hope they will give me a refund for the cloud subscription, as it is included in Navigator :) Its working now, when I found the cloud account my navigator was talking to.
@@PureGlide Thank you! I wouldn't have figured this out quickly on my own.
How is it better from having Xcsoar running on your phone connected to Nano ?
Well for a start if you have an iPhone or iPad, you can't run XCSoar very easily. Possible, but not easy. Secondly, XCSoar is amazing but it also was created a long time ago, so internet features are minimal and bolted on. Aesthetically it's uglier IMO. And harder to use for beginners. The graphics drawing system is from the 90s. I don't think it supports SkySight weather if you use that. However Navigator simply doesn't have task features yet, among many other things so XCSoar and SeeYou Mobile still win hands down if you need to fly tasks at all, and want this as your primary device. Even if they added all these features, you might personally still prefer XCSoar or SeeYou Mobile and the way it works. That's fine, they're not going away.
First
Technically you were about 4th, but I had to re-upload the video :)
*laughs in XCSoar*
😂
I'm happy with XCsoar. I bring my own device and setup when jumping from seat to seat in the club gliders. With a favorable pricing model but maybe has lost a little of momentum on development recently.
@@gliderguld xcsoar's development seems to be back on track again now
Good to hear development has ramped up again. I have used it a lot, expect more videos in the future on it.
Hi Tim, i know it's probably a specific throwaway email, but you did show your naviter account email address on the video
Yeah no dramas, you can email me if you like! I'm sure no one in this community will try and do anything malicious with it :O
Have you tried xctrack for Android? Works great for paragliders who also use the oudie
No I haven't, will have a look sometime