This lecture is the 1st of 2 given by Ilan Pappe. For complete picture I recommend viewing both. Part 2/2 is titled "Squaring the circle: The failure of the Middle East peace process" which explains the faulty logic & diminishing returns for Palestinians. The sound is pretty bad so turn on closed captions.
"However, Gallant and the IDF were criticized for the implementation of the Dahiya doctrine of widespread destruction of civilian infrastructure in the Gaza War of 2008-09, with the Goldstone Report concluding that the Israeli strategy was "designed to punish, humiliate and terrorize a civilian population. The Dahiya Doctrine amounts to the direct use of state terrorism and is now the functioning military policy of the IDF."
Pappe's work is essential to understanding the whole picture. The audio here is very poor. It would be much better if the audio could be equalized to turn down the bass.
That phrase is hopelessly childish, even moronic. And certainly doesn’t belong here, attaching itself like a stupid teenager to the presence of a reputable scholar. Save it for one of your ‘Gas the Jews ‘ weekend rallies.
As a Greek this „lecture“ is a joke. Ethn. cl. ??? Compared to the catastrophes in the Balkans, Eastern Europe, Asia Minor, Anatolia, India-Pakistan… the last 110 years… this Pali refugee story is a tiny tiny tiny incident. Enough with this nonsense. Refugees after 4 generations?? In this sense I am a refugee too. Do I have the right (or do I even want) to return to the house of my grandparents in todays Turkey?? And please, I demand a personal UNRWA for me too 🤣 2 million Greeks thrown out of their ancestors homeland. With thousands of families torn apart, lost and never reunited. Nakba who?? What a joke. But we got over it and started a new life and prospered. Enough is enough. Either the Palis accept Israel and decide to live side by side or either they continue to lose and whine. But they don’t get my sympathy.
Wow, where do I even start with this comment? The level of historical denial and lack of empathy here is staggering. First off, comparing the Palestinian situation to the Balkans, Asia Minor, and other tragedies just to downplay it? Really? Each of these crises has its own complex history, and none of them justifies ignoring or trivializing another. Saying that the Palestinian refugee story is “tiny” is not just ignorant, it’s disrespectful to everyone who understands even basic history. Then there’s your laughable dismissal of multi-generational refugee status. News flash: the world recognizes that the Palestinians have been denied their rights for generations-that’s why UNRWA exists in the first place. Just because you choose to ignore that doesn’t make it any less real. And calling the Nakba a joke? Seriously? That’s 700,000 people displaced, villages destroyed, and an entire population uprooted. It’s historical fact, whether you like it or not. Making light of that just shows you don’t even want to engage with reality. Now, about your romanticized idea that Greeks “got over it” after their displacement-talk about rewriting history. You’re acting like Greece didn’t go through decades of hardship trying to rebuild and integrate those communities. Your simplistic “we made it, so they should too” take doesn’t hold up when you look at the actual history. And telling Palestinians to just “accept Israel” and move on? That’s peak oversimplification. Ignoring the occupation, settlements, and the countless other issues at play just proves you haven’t done your homework. Peace isn’t about one side giving up; it’s about mutual recognition and justice. But the worst part? The utter lack of empathy. You brag about who gets your sympathy like it’s a prize to be earned. If you can’t extend basic human compassion to others, then what’s even the point of this comment? Finally, mocking the idea of needing a “personal UNRWA” for yourself while failing to see the parallels with your own ancestors’ displacement? That’s rich. It’s clear you haven’t connected the dots between your own history and anyone else’s. In short, your comment is full of historical inaccuracies, dismissive takes, and a complete empathy vacuum. Maybe take a step back, read up on the actual history, and learn that acknowledging someone else’s struggle doesn’t diminish your own.
@@mixed-media First of all thank you for your detailed comments and your civilized arguments. I know that it must have been hard for you (as it is for me) bc we completely disagree on basic stand points. In my view „Historical denial“ is exactly what you are practicing. Otherwise you would acknowledge that the millions of displaced refugees all over the world over the last 120 years, when all those multiethnic empires collapsed: - NEVER returned, instead they were all resettled - Were NOT considered refugees anymore as soon as they resettled (and surely not for longer than one generation) - Had never a „dedicated“ created UN refugee organization that lasted longer than a couple of years until the refugees were resettled And that is why the Palestinian case is an anomaly in human history! I don’t ignore it. Yes, it is a reality. But it still doesn’t make any sense. There is NO precedent in history!! WHY should 2nd and 3rd gen. Palestinians born in Gz., West Bank, Lebanon, Jordan or elsewhere be considered refugees to this day?? WHY does UNWRA (created in 1949) still exist to this day?? To relief?? No. To keep the false promise alive: you will all „return“ to the houses of your grandparents… We know very well what that means… UNWRA is not part of the solution. It is part of the problem. I see two reasons for this: - Some people make very good money from UNWRA, from Geneva to Katar. - By keeping the refugee status of the Palis alive, the conflict never ends and Israel is always to blame. (that is why all the surrounding Ar. countries never absorbed the displaced and still keep them as „refugees“) The Pali-Isr conflict can not withstand any comparison to the other tragedies of the last 120 years. Have you any idea what the several ethnicities did to each other in the Balkan wars? How minorities were caught between the fronts, how hundreds of thousands lost their life’s or were displaced? Have you heard what happened to the Armenians? To the Greeks in Asia Minor, Pontos and Kapadokia where they lived for thousands of years? How Turkey and Greece exchanged millions of populations when new borders were established in 1922-23? In all these events the displacement seldom took place in an organized agreed way. Most of the times it was in viol panic, eth_cl, with women absd, with families for years searching for their lost relatives… Have you heard about the 14 million Germans who had to flee from East Europe? The millions exchanged between India and Pakistan? Didn’t you see what happened in post-Yugoslavia? This is what happens when multiethnic empires collapse. That is what happened in the Middle East too. Treaties and hard compromises were made to finish the suffering. Were they totally fair? No. History is not fair. But you take the chance at one point for the sake of your children. Yes. The Isr-pal conflict was a „tiny“ incident compared to these other catastrophes. But everywhere else the parties agreed to make peace and move on. With losses and casualties on both sides. WHY should the palis be so special? 700.000 displaced in 1948? Terrible. But 1 million J. on the other side were thrown out of all the Middle East and North Africa on the other side. In the house my Greek grandfather had built with his own hands now lives a Turkish family. In the 80ies my grandparents visited their old house in todays Turkey. The new Turkish inhabitants kissed the hands of my grandmother… Peace and friendship IS possible. It is the pali set of mind which has to change. But people like you are feeding them lies and false hope to keep fighting a lost cause… „Lack of empathy“?? I see in all the M. world a lack of empathy, otherwise they would have absorbed and integrated the Palis long ago. But they use them to harm Israel. I see a lack of empathy in the Pali leaders, who are endangering their own children, leaving them exposed while hiding in tunnels or in 5* hotels in Katar themselves and wishing them „martyrdom“… I never agreed on the settlements of the few radical Israelis in the West bank. But… - Till this day they are just are about 2% of the West Bank Territory. So an agreement or an exchange of land would still be possible (like the 90ies deal where 4% of Israel territory was offered and rejected by Arafat) - After the complete withdrawal of the settlements in Gaza in 2005 and what happened since then and especially on 10-7… we can all agree that the Israelis won’t do again in the West Bank what they did in Gaza… Another lost opportunity… If just the gzns had built sustainable infrastructure for their people instead of tunnels against Israelis… You might think I am biased against the Palis or M. in general. No, I am pragmatic. Take for instance the Turkish invasion and occupation of northern Cyprus in 1974. The T. Cypriotes were just 18% of the population compared to the Gr. Cypriotes. The Gr. Cypriotes are not considered refugees anymore and I dislike false promises that they will one day return to their homes, they were forced to leave. And guess what. Gr. Cypriotes are not hunting down T. wherever they find them. They don’t throw miss else to the other side. They resettled and prospered. They value the life of their children, have accepted the new situation and let diplomacy and international organizations act. Personally I would agree to a 2-state solution there. 50 years have past, mistakes were made on both sides. Accept it and look forward. Is it fair? Is it just? I don’t care… Maybe it is time for you too, to think out of your narrow box… Shouldn’t the Palis learn from the last 100 years, too? They keep losing and rejecting any agreement and peace treaty again and again and again… What did they achieve? Where has this brought them to? (except if you see as achievement getting money for free) If they don’t change their mindset another 100 years will go by, watching their neighbors thriving while staying stagnant themselves… I have more empathy for them than their own leaders…
1948 to 1967 Gaza was under Egyptian occupation and West Bank was under Jordanian occupation. I’m not a professor and I don’t think this guy is. There is no such place in Arabic history as there is no P in Arabic. 🇬🇧🇮🇳🇮🇱
Archaeological evidence suggests that the first settlement was established near Gihon Spring between 3000 and 2800 BCE. The first known mention of the city was in c. 2000 BCE in the Middle Kingdom Egyptian Execration Texts in which the city was recorded as Rusalimum.
Was Jerusalem a city in Judea? The region presents a variety of geographic features, but the real core of Judaea was the upper hill country, known as Har Yehuda (“Hills of Judaea”), extending south from the region of Bethel (at present-day Ramallah) to Beersheba and including the area of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and Hebron. Facts don’t care about your feelings 🤷🏽🙏🏽
If geographically Jordan was Israel and Israel was Jordan. It would still be about Israel. The strife involves a centuries old story of two brothers. Issac, Ishmael and a right to the land.
Since 1948, the Palestinian population of Israel has increased 16 times, the Jewish, 8. In 1948, the Palestinians comprised 8% of Israel's population. Today, it's 20%. Ethnic cleansing?
thats because most of them were expelled into Gaza & West Bank after the Nakba in 1948. Jewish Population in Israel ≈ 7,200,000 Palestinians in Israel ≈ 2,100,000 Palestinians in West Bank ≈ 3,200,000 Palestinians in Gaza ≈ 2,200,000 Palestinians in Jordan ≈ 3,200,000 Palestinians in Syra ≈ 570,000 Palestinians in Chile ≈ 500,000 Palestinians in Lebanon ≈ 460,000 I wonder why there are so many Palestinians in these places...its like they...were moved
During the British Mandate for Palestine (1920-1948) the Jews were the Palestinians, and the Arabs rejected that identity claiming that it came from the Jews, and had nothing to do with the Arabs. After declaring war on the Jewish state in 1948, 600,000 Arabs fled Israel because either they wanted to get away from the war or their leaders told them to leave so that the Arab armies could have a clear slate over which to kill the Jews. Israel asked the Arabs to stay, and many did becoming citizens of Israel. Today, 20 percent of Israeli citizens are Arabs. Meanwhile, 800,000 Jews fled for their lives to Israel from Arab countries in which they lived for centuries.
Actually, it's canaanite land, since before the Hebrews to whom European converts are not likely more related, than any ol'Harry, Dick and Tom. Philistines were contemporary people.
There isn't enough of Ilan to go around. Everyone needs to hear him speak and read his books. 🇵🇸✊
This lecture is the 1st of 2 given by Ilan Pappe. For complete picture I recommend viewing both. Part 2/2 is titled "Squaring the circle: The failure of the Middle East peace process" which explains the faulty logic & diminishing returns for Palestinians. The sound is pretty bad so turn on closed captions.
Thank you, Mr Pappe for your work and for sharing it
Great Lecture ❤
Armed resistance to oppression is a human right.
Thank you for being a voice for freedom and justice!
"However, Gallant and the IDF were criticized for the implementation of the Dahiya doctrine of widespread destruction of civilian infrastructure in the Gaza War of 2008-09, with the Goldstone Report concluding that the Israeli strategy was "designed to punish, humiliate and terrorize a civilian population. The Dahiya Doctrine amounts to the direct use of state terrorism and is now the functioning military policy of the IDF."
Enlightening.
free palestine
Pappe's work is essential to understanding the whole picture. The audio here is very poor. It would be much better if the audio could be equalized to turn down the bass.
Wow this has been going on for a long time
The quality of the sound was distracting. What a pity.
I will fix the voice and re-upload it on my channel.
I will fix the voice and re-upload the video on my channel.
Very interesting. Free Palestine
That phrase is hopelessly childish, even moronic. And certainly doesn’t belong here, attaching itself like a stupid teenager to the presence of a reputable scholar. Save it for one of your ‘Gas the Jews ‘ weekend rallies.
Brillant lecture.
I love this man.
Part 2: ruclips.net/video/dVGrueiUoQw/видео.htmlsi=PhK3ZVhOe2l_ogig
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Eu sou perigosa tbm kkkkk
As a Greek this „lecture“ is a joke.
Ethn. cl. ???
Compared to the catastrophes in the Balkans, Eastern Europe, Asia Minor, Anatolia, India-Pakistan… the last 110 years…
this Pali refugee story is a tiny tiny tiny incident.
Enough with this nonsense.
Refugees after 4 generations??
In this sense I am a refugee too.
Do I have the right (or do I even want) to return to the house of my grandparents in todays Turkey??
And please, I demand a personal UNRWA for me too 🤣
2 million Greeks thrown out of their ancestors homeland.
With thousands of families torn apart, lost and never reunited.
Nakba who?? What a joke.
But we got over it and started a new life and prospered.
Enough is enough.
Either the Palis accept Israel and decide to live side by side or either they continue to lose and whine.
But they don’t get my sympathy.
Wow, where do I even start with this comment? The level of historical denial and lack of empathy here is staggering.
First off, comparing the Palestinian situation to the Balkans, Asia Minor, and other tragedies just to downplay it? Really? Each of these crises has its own complex history, and none of them justifies ignoring or trivializing another. Saying that the Palestinian refugee story is “tiny” is not just ignorant, it’s disrespectful to everyone who understands even basic history.
Then there’s your laughable dismissal of multi-generational refugee status. News flash: the world recognizes that the Palestinians have been denied their rights for generations-that’s why UNRWA exists in the first place. Just because you choose to ignore that doesn’t make it any less real.
And calling the Nakba a joke? Seriously? That’s 700,000 people displaced, villages destroyed, and an entire population uprooted. It’s historical fact, whether you like it or not. Making light of that just shows you don’t even want to engage with reality.
Now, about your romanticized idea that Greeks “got over it” after their displacement-talk about rewriting history. You’re acting like Greece didn’t go through decades of hardship trying to rebuild and integrate those communities. Your simplistic “we made it, so they should too” take doesn’t hold up when you look at the actual history.
And telling Palestinians to just “accept Israel” and move on? That’s peak oversimplification. Ignoring the occupation, settlements, and the countless other issues at play just proves you haven’t done your homework. Peace isn’t about one side giving up; it’s about mutual recognition and justice.
But the worst part? The utter lack of empathy. You brag about who gets your sympathy like it’s a prize to be earned. If you can’t extend basic human compassion to others, then what’s even the point of this comment?
Finally, mocking the idea of needing a “personal UNRWA” for yourself while failing to see the parallels with your own ancestors’ displacement? That’s rich. It’s clear you haven’t connected the dots between your own history and anyone else’s.
In short, your comment is full of historical inaccuracies, dismissive takes, and a complete empathy vacuum. Maybe take a step back, read up on the actual history, and learn that acknowledging someone else’s struggle doesn’t diminish your own.
@@mixed-media
First of all thank you for your detailed comments and your civilized arguments.
I know that it must have been hard for you (as it is for me) bc we completely disagree on basic stand points.
In my view „Historical denial“ is exactly what you are practicing.
Otherwise you would acknowledge that the millions of displaced refugees all over the world over the last 120 years, when all those multiethnic empires collapsed:
- NEVER returned, instead they were all resettled
- Were NOT considered refugees anymore as soon as they resettled (and surely not for longer than one generation)
- Had never a „dedicated“ created UN refugee organization that lasted longer than a couple of years until the refugees were resettled
And that is why the Palestinian case is an anomaly in human history!
I don’t ignore it. Yes, it is a reality. But it still doesn’t make any sense.
There is NO precedent in history!!
WHY should 2nd and 3rd gen. Palestinians born in Gz., West Bank, Lebanon, Jordan or elsewhere be considered refugees to this day??
WHY does UNWRA (created in 1949) still exist to this day??
To relief?? No.
To keep the false promise alive: you will all „return“ to the houses of your grandparents…
We know very well what that means…
UNWRA is not part of the solution. It is part of the problem.
I see two reasons for this:
- Some people make very good money from UNWRA, from Geneva to Katar.
- By keeping the refugee status of the Palis alive, the conflict never ends and Israel is always to blame. (that is why all the surrounding Ar. countries never absorbed the displaced and still keep them as „refugees“)
The Pali-Isr conflict can not withstand any comparison to the other tragedies of the last 120 years.
Have you any idea what the several ethnicities did to each other in the Balkan wars? How minorities were caught between the fronts, how hundreds of thousands lost their life’s or were displaced?
Have you heard what happened to the Armenians? To the Greeks in Asia Minor, Pontos and Kapadokia where they lived for thousands of years?
How Turkey and Greece exchanged millions of populations when new borders were established in 1922-23?
In all these events the displacement seldom took place in an organized agreed way. Most of the times it was in viol panic, eth_cl, with women absd, with families for years searching for their lost relatives…
Have you heard about the 14 million Germans who had to flee from East Europe?
The millions exchanged between India and Pakistan?
Didn’t you see what happened in post-Yugoslavia?
This is what happens when multiethnic empires collapse.
That is what happened in the Middle East too.
Treaties and hard compromises were made to finish the suffering. Were they totally fair?
No. History is not fair. But you take the chance at one point for the sake of your children.
Yes. The Isr-pal conflict was a „tiny“ incident compared to these other catastrophes.
But everywhere else the parties agreed to make peace and move on. With losses and casualties on both sides.
WHY should the palis be so special?
700.000 displaced in 1948? Terrible.
But 1 million J. on the other side were thrown out of all the Middle East and North Africa on the other side.
In the house my Greek grandfather had built with his own hands now lives a Turkish family.
In the 80ies my grandparents visited their old house in todays Turkey.
The new Turkish inhabitants kissed the hands of my grandmother…
Peace and friendship IS possible.
It is the pali set of mind which has to change.
But people like you are feeding them lies and false hope to keep fighting a lost cause…
„Lack of empathy“??
I see in all the M. world a lack of empathy, otherwise they would have absorbed and integrated the Palis long ago. But they use them to harm Israel.
I see a lack of empathy in the Pali leaders, who are endangering their own children, leaving them exposed while hiding in tunnels or in 5* hotels in Katar themselves and wishing them „martyrdom“…
I never agreed on the settlements of the few radical Israelis in the West bank.
But…
- Till this day they are just are about 2% of the West Bank Territory. So an agreement or an exchange of land would still be possible (like the 90ies deal where 4% of Israel territory was offered and rejected by Arafat)
- After the complete withdrawal of the settlements in Gaza in 2005 and what happened since then and especially on 10-7… we can all agree that the Israelis won’t do again in the West Bank what they did in Gaza… Another lost opportunity… If just the gzns had built sustainable infrastructure for their people instead of tunnels against Israelis…
You might think I am biased against the Palis or M. in general.
No, I am pragmatic.
Take for instance the Turkish invasion and occupation of northern Cyprus in 1974.
The T. Cypriotes were just 18% of the population compared to the Gr. Cypriotes.
The Gr. Cypriotes are not considered refugees anymore and I dislike false promises that they will one day return to their homes, they were forced to leave.
And guess what. Gr. Cypriotes are not hunting down T. wherever they find them. They don’t throw miss else to the other side.
They resettled and prospered.
They value the life of their children, have accepted the new situation and let diplomacy and international organizations act.
Personally I would agree to a 2-state solution there. 50 years have past, mistakes were made on both sides. Accept it and look forward.
Is it fair? Is it just? I don’t care…
Maybe it is time for you too, to think out of your narrow box…
Shouldn’t the Palis learn from the last 100 years, too?
They keep losing and rejecting any agreement and peace treaty again and again and again…
What did they achieve? Where has this brought them to?
(except if you see as achievement getting money for free)
If they don’t change their mindset another 100 years will go by, watching their neighbors thriving while staying stagnant themselves…
I have more empathy for them than their own leaders…
1948 to 1967 Gaza was under Egyptian occupation and West Bank was under Jordanian occupation. I’m not a professor and I don’t think this guy is. There is no such place in Arabic history as there is no P in Arabic. 🇬🇧🇮🇳🇮🇱
There was no Israel or Isrealis until 1948 so what's your point?
Archaeological evidence suggests that the first settlement was established near Gihon Spring between 3000 and 2800 BCE. The first known mention of the city was in c. 2000 BCE in the Middle Kingdom Egyptian Execration Texts in which the city was recorded as Rusalimum.
Was Jerusalem a city in Judea?
The region presents a variety of geographic features, but the real core of Judaea was the upper hill country, known as Har Yehuda (“Hills of Judaea”), extending south from the region of Bethel (at present-day Ramallah) to Beersheba and including the area of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and Hebron.
Facts don’t care about your feelings 🤷🏽🙏🏽
@Jazzy65-p7n And in 1947 there were no Israelis or an Israel. But there was a British Mandate where 65% of the population was Arab
@@Jazzy65-p7n Ancient history is fun. Native Americans used to live on the land I now own.
an exhibitionist and a forger of the truth. Prof Benny Morris is the best.
If geographically Jordan was Israel and Israel was Jordan. It would still be about Israel. The strife involves a centuries old story of two brothers. Issac, Ishmael and a right to the land.
Since 1948, the Palestinian population of Israel has increased 16 times, the Jewish, 8. In 1948, the Palestinians comprised 8% of Israel's population. Today, it's 20%. Ethnic cleansing?
thats because most of them were expelled into Gaza & West Bank after the Nakba in 1948.
Jewish Population in Israel ≈ 7,200,000
Palestinians in Israel ≈ 2,100,000
Palestinians in West Bank ≈ 3,200,000
Palestinians in Gaza ≈ 2,200,000
Palestinians in Jordan ≈ 3,200,000
Palestinians in Syra ≈ 570,000
Palestinians in Chile ≈ 500,000
Palestinians in Lebanon ≈ 460,000
I wonder why there are so many Palestinians in these places...its like they...were moved
During the British Mandate for Palestine (1920-1948) the Jews were the Palestinians, and the Arabs rejected that identity claiming that it came from the Jews, and had nothing to do with the Arabs. After declaring war on the Jewish state in 1948, 600,000 Arabs fled Israel because either they wanted to get away from the war or their leaders told them to leave so that the Arab armies could have a clear slate over which to kill the Jews. Israel asked the Arabs to stay, and many did becoming citizens of Israel. Today, 20 percent of Israeli citizens are Arabs. Meanwhile, 800,000 Jews fled for their lives to Israel from Arab countries in which they lived for centuries.
did you even bother listening to this lecture at all?
each of your points is debunked
Listen to the lecture well
Lol ur so ignorant jane
Israel asked Arabs to stay? Why did the destroy over 400 Arab villages?
Simply nonsense
Straight from the national archieves.
"Libertyfor all", except the natives, huh?!?
It’s Israel land ,homes since recorded. ,by ancient empires , including the invading islams
It's Palestine not Israel, read Balfour declaration
Actually, it's canaanite land, since before the Hebrews to whom European converts are not likely more related, than any ol'Harry, Dick and Tom.
Philistines were contemporary people.