why is it you never forget a steam train journey I'm 79 the sound the smell the very ground under your feet vibrating putting your head out the window just to get a cinder in your eye a clip up your ear off Mom Dad putting me on the luggage rack to sleep on way to isles of white from snow hill Birmingham happy days
When I spotted at Blackwell Station (long gone), as I did my homework, in the 1950's nearly all trains were banked with hardly any exceptions. Expresses, hauled by Jubilees would usually have 3 Jinties pushing: 3 carriage locals with a 2P 4.4.0 1 Jinty pushing. Big Bertha usually flogged up with freights. With the wind in right direction you could hear the whistle signals ("crows") between train engine and bankers for miles. No shame in F/S being given a shove!
Superb footage and WHAT a performance from the old lady! The 47 was just ticking over. I’ve got a pal in the local police who was on lineside duty at a crossing south of Bromsgrove. She got me some lovely shots.
Yes, it looked like the diesel wasn't banking the train as such. Was it even pulling its own weight or was Flying Scotsman dragging the 47 up the slope as well as a heavy train?
Thank you. We did have BTP turn up to check everyone was behaving. Thankfully everyone there was well behaved. It wasn’t the crowd I was expecting though. The 47 was giving it a bit of a push. Once the unit passed I could hear it working away but I’d turned the camera off by then
The poor photographer’s heart must have sunk when he saw that green aspect appear, dreading the moment when a DMU blocks the camera shot! He just about got away with it! As regards idling, when those old knackers 47’s are actually working they throw out as much muck as a steamer does. With flames too sometimes.
I caught sight of the loco at the road bridge on stoke pound lane where it opened it up before the junction and I caught the return at stoke works junction itself where I hear her whistle echoing across Worcestershire whilst she was picking up the pace at stoke priors road underbridge check it out
That discord whistle bring back memories The Flying Scotsman sliding right through Durham Station on icy rails to stop on the embankment above Sidegate.
Been observed a few times the class 47 at the rear is often pushing the train much more than it is being pulled by the steam. I watched F/S on ECML the other week and the 47s engine was doing much more than providing power to the coaches. Mostly steam from F/S instead of sooty smoke.
Thanks rich. We had a voyager due down the bank but Scotsman was held after stoke works for a stopper to go before it. I was worried the unit was gonna bowl us but thankfully it didn’t
When the FS was in regular service, did its route start in London and end in Edinburgh? How long did the run take? Was it nonstop all the way? What towns and cities did it pass through en rout,e?
Makes you realise how good even an old electric train is. I regularly go by class 323 from Bromsgrove to Birmingham and from a standing start they are doing over 60 by the time they reach the top of the incline...
Watched 60103 since 1960 at New South Gate in good old BR Days ,it’s a national treasure but know over 100 years old Why oh why do we want to thrash this loco up one of the steepest inclines in uk ,Absolutely bonkers !
Except it wasn't being. This is all first valve - looks impressive but it's similar to your car doing 20mph in first gear. Diesel at the back was doing all the real work here
Dead right Alan that was a close thing with the DMU Gresley LNER engines were a masterpiece of engineering , 60103 looks to be doing OK. Back in the 50's a lot of the Top Shed drivers said Scotsman was not one of the best. I advise anybody to read Peter Townend's recollections of 34A.
Awesome sight to behold. Does anyone know if she would have been able to do it under her own steam? Or is it to much of a risk to have the line blocked so they bank her anyway?
Possibly not as A3s struggled up Holloway Bank out of Kings Cross. As for the class 47 all steam specials have a loco assisting them in case they fail I think the fine is about £24000 a minute for holding up other companies equipment. Ironically a steam loco called The Duke of Gloucester had to have a class 67 assisting it over the South Devon banks a few years ago and because of the weight of the 67 asked for extra power and guess what the 67 failed and couldn’t be started so the train grown to a halt causing major disruption. If the diesel hadn’t been there THE Duke would have stormed up the banks. The figure of £24000 was what we were charged at my old company Westinghouse Brakes a particular worry as we supply every set of brakes for all London Underground units as well as many other locos
Sorry but no way was the 47 "just ticking over"! The A3 would have stalled with that load on that gradient without a big push. Would have loved to have seen "Big Bertha" shoving up the rear!
People always say its just ticking over, maybe they're comforting themselves? The diesels always give help up banks in my experience, the modern railway timetables don't allow for steam locos to take 10 minutes on a bank.
@@olliestrains841 not all steam need assistance. Take a look at my video of Tyseleys double headed castles from a few months ago. The castles did all the work on that run.
The maths ain't mathng for an A3 to have taken this many coaches plus a Duff up the gradient with wet/drying rail head conditions without some form of assistance. Remember that Jubilees were restricted to 5 without banking support
@@blackcountrysteamvideos8021 I'm very aware of that fact, I once travelled behind 46115 with 8 coaches unassisted up the S&C. Just the majority of the time, especially when not in summer, I find the diesels give assistance, my emphasis on most of the time. For example, when 7029 went up the S&C we were in the back coach and all discussing how we could hear the diesel clag as it was helping Clun Castle get up to Appleby in not ideal conditions. I just feel most trainspotters are too far away, or simply don't want to acknowledge that their favorite locos get help.
I quote: ''Many current freight trains still need to be banked however and since 2003 DB Cargo UK use dedicated Class 66 locomotives, nos. 66055-057 and 66059 (and formerly 66058). These are modified with air-released swing-away buckeye couplers and a downward facing light to assist nighttime buffering up.''
It wasn't. There was a driver in the 47 providing banking assistance, as were most trains up the Lickey in the days of steam and still are on many freight workings.
@@12crepello thanks - then I am back in the days of steam banking - how did the banking loco driver know when they were helping the climb and when to increase or decrease their power
@@stormede1564 Banking was a fairly widespread practice but I am not aware of it being used on the lines you mention. Maybe some freights on the climb to Sharnbrook?
@@stormede1564 Driving a banking engine was, and still is, a skilled job. When normal banking on the Lickey the banking engine was not attached to the train. In steam days communication between the train and banking engine was by whistle. Basically the banking engine applied full power at the rear of the train for the full length of the climb, easing off at the summit and dropping back as the main train carried on. In the case of this train the loco was attached so would have provided power as and when required, probably communicating by radio? There are several publications and some videos on youtube covering the operation on the Lickey. Fascinating stuff when you delve into it.
Good one Luke. Filming in dull conditions and a shot lasting that long as it climbed the bank wouldn't have turned out well for me, I leave it to you and Liam & stay at home in the warm!!!
Interesting video .back in the 1959s the Lickey wAs famous tor the banking locos some tomes two or three that pushed trains up the bank. 60103 came up the bank with a class 47 on the rear which many steam hauled exursion do incase of a loco failure.. I wonder if the 47 was actually banking it up the lickey. I wasnt there so i dont know.
Beautiful to see. Had I known about it I'd have been there. Talking of scrap iron, as a child I remember Stanier engines being banned south of Crewe, and then Carlisle because they were 'dangerous' under the wires. How come they aren't dangerous now?
TRAIN SPOTTER IGNORANCE ??? You mean a CLASS 47 & Flying Scotsman took on the Lickey incline, with the Class 47 obviously doing at least 60% of the work. A totally pointless exercise, as this ONLY proves these TWO locos COMBINED have enough power to surmount the gradient. The Class 47 having 2,500hp, and quite clearly at full throttle as indicated by all that Diesel Pollution emitting from its roof exhaust. While the steam locomotive (which was only a Class 7 NOT a Class 8) was probably developing no more than 1,200-1,400hp maximum ! And people are Dumb enough to literally "get taken for a ride" on what they obviously think is a "steam train", but with a more powerful Diesel loco attached for the whole journey, not Just up this gradient. It's a Total Con !!! And as an ex BR Mechanical Engineer who started working on Railways as a qualified steam loco driver, I certainly would never buy a ticket for what ISN'T a steam train tour, like this nonsense !
Absolutely HATE seeing those nasty diesels on the back of these magnificent beasts. I get its necessary most of the time, but those things just look horrible on the back. Also, the BR livery is nowhere near as impressive as its old LNER livery
I wouldn't agree about LNER livery - I think it's bland, and BR lined green is better. Some of us can remember ER steam in the 1960s but hardly anyone is left who remembers LNER livery from life.
The diesel was working just as hard. Why is there this ridiculous love affair with this locomotive. Millions spent on it by the National Rail museum which could have been better spent.
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Lovely ex lner loco
Superb, thanks for making the effort today.
One of those all time great video sequences. Well done. Thx.
Good video lovely to see it thanks
why is it you never forget a steam train journey I'm 79 the sound the smell the very ground under your feet vibrating putting your head out the window just to get a cinder in your eye a clip up your ear off Mom Dad putting me on the luggage rack to sleep on way to isles of white from snow hill Birmingham happy days
Brilliant couldnt make it so was relying on you to film it 😊
Luke, Another day out at the Lickey I see. Great captures. Regards, John
When I spotted at Blackwell Station (long gone), as I did my homework, in the 1950's nearly all trains were banked with hardly any exceptions. Expresses, hauled by Jubilees would usually have 3 Jinties pushing: 3 carriage locals with a 2P 4.4.0 1 Jinty pushing. Big Bertha usually flogged up with freights. With the wind in right direction you could hear the whistle signals ("crows") between train engine and bankers for miles.
No shame in F/S being given a shove!
🎉🎉🎉💪💪🤝👍🚂niceee
Absolutely fantastic 👍🏻
State of the track!
Nice to see the old steamer working hard
Wow, that was spectacular, even if FS was being assisted! Thanks for the great long shot👍
Great video as always Luke. Kind regards, Jake.
I was on that today on standard class. Great shots there. Recommend if anyone wants a ride. Glorious machine
Thank you. I hope you enjoyed your day. Its a nice atmosphere on board those rail tours
Jealous! Must have been a fabulous experience.
It was and fully recommend
Wow what a video. I saw it at bromsgrove just before it hit the incline
Cheers mate. Definitely worth braving the cold to witness
@@blackcountrysteamvideos8021ye it quite rear for the Flying Scotsman to come down to this area
Superb footage and WHAT a performance from the old lady! The 47 was just ticking over.
I’ve got a pal in the local police who was on lineside duty at a crossing south of Bromsgrove. She got me some lovely shots.
Yes, it looked like the diesel wasn't banking the train as such. Was it even pulling its own weight or was Flying Scotsman dragging the 47 up the slope as well as a heavy train?
@@simongleaden2864Just before the EMU passes you can hear the 47 has plenty of power on but it's still a great sight and sound.
Thank you. We did have BTP turn up to check everyone was behaving. Thankfully everyone there was well behaved. It wasn’t the crowd I was expecting though. The 47 was giving it a bit of a push. Once the unit passed I could hear it working away but I’d turned the camera off by then
A great "action" capture of the A3 working hard.
Nice to meet you and stand for hours with you today seeing this ❤
See you for the next one. Owe you know where you’re going. Good to meet you
The poor photographer’s heart must have sunk when he saw that green aspect appear, dreading the moment when a DMU blocks the camera shot! He just about got away with it! As regards idling, when those old knackers 47’s are actually working they throw out as much muck as a steamer does. With flames too sometimes.
Flames??? That be a 37 LOL!
Super video :)
I caught sight of the loco at the road bridge on stoke pound lane where it opened it up before the junction and I caught the return at stoke works junction itself where I hear her whistle echoing across Worcestershire whilst she was picking up the pace at stoke priors road underbridge check it out
Hope you enjoyed it Scott.
@@blackcountrysteamvideos8021I hope you have too Luke
That discord whistle bring back memories The Flying Scotsman sliding right through Durham Station on icy rails to stop on the embankment above Sidegate.
47 assisting or not, it's still a remarkable sight.
Been observed a few times the class 47 at the rear is often pushing the train much more than it is being pulled by the steam. I watched F/S on ECML the other week and the 47s engine was doing much more than providing power to the coaches. Mostly steam from F/S instead of sooty smoke.
Fantastic shot. So lucky not to have got bombed!! Cant believe Scotty was doing that single handed, but no diesel exhaust, amazing !!!
It wasn't - it's literally not possible for it to have done it without diesel support. It was just well hidden
@@PolishThatHandle346 At least 103 was working: so often these days we see the steam locomotive doing little with the 47 doing 90% of the work.
@@paulcaswell2813 working about as much as it would on a leisurely stroll of the Severn Valley Railway.
Ya did remarkably well Luke & just in the nick of time before the went went down the bank. Richard
Thanks rich. We had a voyager due down the bank but Scotsman was held after stoke works for a stopper to go before it. I was worried the unit was gonna bowl us but thankfully it didn’t
When the FS was in regular service, did its route start in London and end in Edinburgh?
How long did the run take?
Was it nonstop all the way?
What towns and cities did it pass through en rout,e?
Makes you realise how good even an old electric train is. I regularly go by class 323 from Bromsgrove to Birmingham and from a standing start they are doing over 60 by the time they reach the top of the incline...
Watched 60103 since 1960 at New South Gate in good old BR Days ,it’s a national treasure but know over 100 years old Why oh why do we want to thrash this loco up one of the steepest inclines in uk ,Absolutely bonkers !
Except it wasn't being. This is all first valve - looks impressive but it's similar to your car doing 20mph in first gear.
Diesel at the back was doing all the real work here
Dead right Alan that was a close thing with the DMU
Gresley LNER engines were a masterpiece of engineering , 60103 looks to be doing OK.
Back in the 50's a lot of the Top Shed drivers said Scotsman was not one of the best.
I advise anybody to read Peter Townend's recollections of 34A.
Great video! How do you access this point please?
It’s a foot crossing near to pikespool lane at Burcott
Hi my name is Phil I did 50yrs on the footplate in 1973 I fired the Flying Scotman from Manchester Vic to Derby works Regard Phil.
Why does the Fly Scotsman always have a diesel on the rear???
Awesome sight to behold. Does anyone know if she would have been able to do it under her own steam? Or is it to much of a risk to have the line blocked so they bank her anyway?
Possibly not as A3s struggled up Holloway Bank out of Kings Cross. As for the class 47 all steam specials have a loco assisting them in case they fail I think the fine is about £24000 a minute for holding up other companies equipment. Ironically a steam loco called The Duke of Gloucester had to have a class 67 assisting it over the South Devon banks a few years ago and because of the weight of the 67 asked for extra power and guess what the 67 failed and couldn’t be started so the train grown to a halt causing major disruption. If the diesel hadn’t been there THE Duke would have stormed up the banks. The figure of £24000 was what we were charged at my old company Westinghouse Brakes a particular worry as we supply every set of brakes for all London Underground units as well as many other locos
Ooooohhh - near miss with that MU. 🙂
That is close to a 3% grade if I did my math right. Very impressive even with a diesel pushing at the other end.
When I saw the length of the train and the speed FS was going I knew it wasn,t real.
Sorry but no way was the 47 "just ticking over"! The A3 would have stalled with that load on that gradient without a big push. Would have loved to have seen "Big Bertha" shoving up the rear!
Filth!😅
People always say its just ticking over, maybe they're comforting themselves? The diesels always give help up banks in my experience, the modern railway timetables don't allow for steam locos to take 10 minutes on a bank.
@@olliestrains841 not all steam need assistance. Take a look at my video of Tyseleys double headed castles from a few months ago. The castles did all the work on that run.
The maths ain't mathng for an A3 to have taken this many coaches plus a Duff up the gradient with wet/drying rail head conditions without some form of assistance. Remember that Jubilees were restricted to 5 without banking support
@@blackcountrysteamvideos8021 I'm very aware of that fact, I once travelled behind 46115 with 8 coaches unassisted up the S&C. Just the majority of the time, especially when not in summer, I find the diesels give assistance, my emphasis on most of the time. For example, when 7029 went up the S&C we were in the back coach and all discussing how we could hear the diesel clag as it was helping Clun Castle get up to Appleby in not ideal conditions. I just feel most trainspotters are too far away, or simply don't want to acknowledge that their favorite locos get help.
F/S had plenty of practice climbing lengthy grades steeper than the Lickley Incline (generally double or triple headed steam) in 1989
Lucky shot😂😂
Are there still 66s stabled at the Incline to provide banking assistance if required?
I quote:
''Many current freight trains still need to be banked however and since 2003 DB Cargo UK use dedicated Class 66 locomotives, nos. 66055-057 and 66059 (and formerly 66058). These are modified with air-released swing-away buckeye couplers and a downward facing light to assist nighttime buffering up.''
Great effort by the diesel at rear. (“Scotsman” barely able to lift it’s own weight judging by exhaust.)
The FS was doing this gradient way before any diesel
An LNE loco on the Lickey? Tell me more...
@@paulcaswell2813 ...it was diverted from the LNER (ECML) at Grantham, went via the Lickey and then rejoined the LNER (ECML) at Sandy... 😉
Ok the class 47 was not ticking over but how it driven by the Scotsman’s crew from the front?
It wasn't. There was a driver in the 47 providing banking assistance, as were most trains up the Lickey in the days of steam and still are on many freight workings.
@@12crepello thanks - then I am back in the days of steam banking - how did the banking loco driver know when they were helping the climb and when to increase or decrease their power
And were there any banking assitance needed on the ECML or midlands main line. WCML goes without saying
@@stormede1564 Banking was a fairly widespread practice but I am not aware of it being used on the lines you mention. Maybe some freights on the climb to Sharnbrook?
@@stormede1564 Driving a banking engine was, and still is, a skilled job. When normal banking on the Lickey the banking engine was not attached to the train. In steam days communication between the train and banking engine was by whistle. Basically the banking engine applied full power at the rear of the train for the full length of the climb, easing off at the summit and dropping back as the main train carried on.
In the case of this train the loco was attached so would have provided power as and when required, probably communicating by radio? There are several publications and some videos on youtube covering the operation on the Lickey. Fascinating stuff when you delve into it.
Good one Luke. Filming in dull conditions and a shot lasting that long as it climbed the bank wouldn't have turned out well for me, I leave it to you and Liam & stay at home in the warm!!!
Wow - wish the Toyota Argo courtesy car I have just now went up hills like that 👍
The growling cupboard on the back never allows full loco performance!
These diesels are horrid things.
I think it’s knackered
The 2:59 drawbar power of a Pacific 4-6-2 is considerable and requires no help.
Except the 47 helping to bank it you mean.
ok vidio
i am just wondering if 4472 should have been there at all, or at least have banking engine, talk about wear and tear
I was thinking of the blast and steam on overhead cablee.
It was being banked by the 47.
Not bad for a centurion...
The drawbar power of a Pacific 4-6-2 is considerable and requires no help.
Interesting video .back in the 1959s the Lickey wAs famous tor the banking locos some tomes two or three that pushed trains up the bank.
60103 came up the bank with a class 47 on the rear which many steam hauled exursion do incase of a loco failure..
I wonder if the 47 was actually banking it up the lickey.
I wasnt there so i dont know.
Lovely sequence. Shame about all that overhead scrap iron some dam fool has strewn all over the place :)
Beautiful to see. Had I known about it I'd have been there. Talking of scrap iron, as a child I remember Stanier engines being banned south of Crewe, and then Carlisle because they were 'dangerous' under the wires. How come they aren't dangerous now?
TRAIN SPOTTER IGNORANCE ???
You mean a CLASS 47 & Flying Scotsman took on the Lickey incline, with the Class 47 obviously doing at least 60% of the work. A totally pointless exercise, as this ONLY proves these TWO locos COMBINED have enough power to surmount the gradient. The Class 47 having 2,500hp, and quite clearly at full throttle as indicated by all that Diesel Pollution emitting from its roof exhaust. While the steam locomotive (which was only a Class 7 NOT a Class 8) was probably developing no more than 1,200-1,400hp maximum !
And people are Dumb enough to literally "get taken for a ride" on what they obviously think is a "steam train", but with a more powerful Diesel loco attached for the whole journey, not Just up this gradient. It's a Total Con !!! And as an ex BR Mechanical Engineer who started working on Railways as a qualified steam loco driver, I certainly would never buy a ticket for what ISN'T a steam train tour, like this nonsense !
Absolutely HATE seeing those nasty diesels on the back of these magnificent beasts. I get its necessary most of the time, but those things just look horrible on the back. Also, the BR livery is nowhere near as impressive as its old LNER livery
I totally agree. Ruins the experience but I understand why most tours have them.
I wouldn't agree about LNER livery - I think it's bland, and BR lined green is better. Some of us can remember ER steam in the 1960s but hardly anyone is left who remembers LNER livery from life.
The diesel was working just as hard. Why is there this ridiculous love affair with this locomotive. Millions spent on it by the National Rail museum which could have been better spent.
Spoilt by not panning. Not interested in watching the coaching stock and the parcels van on the back passing by.
Makes no sense showing it going down the bank first?
😂 how does it not make sense? The train went down the bank to go to Worcester before going back up the bank