Wells-Index Mill: Repairing the Worm Gear that Tilts the Head
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- Опубликовано: 9 мар 2017
- While moving my Wells-Index milling machine, I discovered some damage that had occurred to the worm gear that tilts the head on the mill. In this video, we will remove the head, inspect the damage, and begin the repair by turning a new shaft on the metal lathe.
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Keith, I was told once if it was easy Walmart would be doing it. Nice job on the bolt. The worm gear would be an interesting fix but time consuming compared to drilling a couple holes. Keep smiling.
Great fix, Keith!! Sadly, this is a common problem on these heads. I was told by the guys at H&W Machine Repair over in Indiana that its always recommended to support the head with your arm once it tips over center due to the pressure angle and clearance on the worm not being 100% right for the application. They said it puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the worm which requires a lot of torque to get to move and the shaft simply is not stout enough for it.
My Bridgeport gear was a little worn as well and it would stick and turn stick and turn which caused the head to bounce. They mentioned that bouncing is what usually shears the shaft or the keyway and tears up the gears. My gears were also DRY as a bone. When I did my refurb on the machine, I used a load of high quality high moly content grease used for racecar engine fasteners (ARP lube). That really made the difference on rotating the head by lowering the friction more than normal oil or grease. They still suggesting supporting the head when raising and lowering it when the weight shifts to the sides. I could really feel it in the worm when I would take just a little weight off the head, big difference.
Thank you for the video!
Yeah that little worm seems small compared .to that head with the motor and all on it.Once it starts rotating "downhill" I don't see how that worm can take it
+ronald davis I was surprised at its size too, although it's the gear that couldn't take it, not the worm. I was wondering if some attaching some kind of counterweight when tilting to more extreme angles might ensure the gear's future longevity.
Interesting dilemma.....
Not to reveal in your bad luck, but if your turning new gear, very excited to watch. Might just be personal preference , but watching repair vids are usually the best content.
To those that suggest just flipping the gear 180, note that the damaged teeth are at the extreme end of the gears travel. Flipping 180 would put the damaged teeth at the other end of the Gears travel. Slipping the gear 90, if done in the correct direction, will put the damaged teeth out of the gears travel. Should the gear be slipped 90 in the wrong direction, the damaged teeth could end up in the center of travel. Slipping exactly 90 is not critical. It is only necessary that the new holes line up with the existing holes in the gear housing. Keith has it right. Don't sweat it.
Hi Keith, Thanks for the first rate tour of your new shop. It was very enjoyable.
You are working fast! I saw the shaft yesterday and today I get to see how you made it. Looks like everything is going very well.
Keep up the good work
Lee K.
Great having you here!
Why are there so many comments wanting Keith to buy, make or worse yet take the time to weld repair this gear. Rotating the gear 180 to a new set of unused teeth is the perfect fix. He is very fortunate that he has this option and would be a fool not to do it. If having a few (unused) broken teeth in that gear set bothers you guys so much, then maybe Keith will machine them off and you can all pretend that is how it came from the manufacturer. If the rotation process requires only a partial segment of the driven gear, there is no reason on earth to not use the available fresh teeth. How many times have we all had a tool or a part that we could rotate or adjust to a fresh setting when needed? Leave Keith to his repair. We are just viewers who are fortunate to have him invite us to watch (for free!) his projects.
im a similar vien, my desk fan rotating mechanism the plastic gear stripped, but like all fans it rotates about 90 degrees, so the cog that did the job only had half its teeth broken, i rotated it and its lasted even longer than it did the first time around!
Calm down buddy...
Glad we got it underway. I wondered if you could rotate the head gear 180* and you made my day when you decided to do it that way. Sorry you didn't have that cutter but I guess they are available. My experience as a shad tree mechanic are beginning to show. As a bricklayer we had to think on our feet even though not so precise as the work you are doing. Great video and thanks, Greg. (bugered?)
Keith,
It's nice that you got to make a part on the La Blond lathe. The bad part is the condition under which the part needed to be made. As you mentioned, I see no problem with "repurposing" the unused portion of the worm gear. With your ability, I see no problem in you drilling the holes in the proper position and everything going back together as it should. You can get gears on Amazon??? Who knew? Anyway, thanks for the video and sharing your work and frustrations.
Have a good one!
Dave
Yeah, I was kind of surprised that the gear was on Amazon. I just did a Google search for the part number and it came right up under Amazon!
I'd love to see a new gear made too. However I understand you only have so much time. I'd guess that all these fans, myself too, are like the audience at a concert that want an encore. Keep up the super presentations.
I had the same exact problem on my Bridgeport. I'm glad to see your video on your fix because I did my repairs identical. but my shaft sheared at the set screw relief. the shaft was a bear to get out of the head. I too didn't have the right woodroff cutter so I had to reassyemble the mill without the worm and .plunge milled a slot for a square key. worked well enough. thanks for the videos and expertise. yours and others are my favorite source of entertainment
Keith, rotating the gear to the unused portion is the definition of "working smarter not harder"! Plus keeping the cash in your pocket and using it someplace else. Just love the look of the new shop. Space. Lots of space. I'm jealous.
Keith says "I think I will just make a spring cut to see what it needs". Worm gear slides right on tight. Sweet. Has a huge box of woodruff key cutters and goes right up to one cutter shy. Is that not a law? You might never have the correct size even with the world's largest collection. That is the law. Oh,,,and that LaBlond lathe? She's a beauty. Thanks for the video.
Good fix so far Keith, just watch another RUclips video of then making the teeth on a gear using the dividing head and a horizontal mill. Looks like it could be done with what you have in the shop. Would make a great video, just a thought. Your meticulous in your repairs, you knowing that it's not right a full 360 of the teeth would work on your mind.
I just love all the mechanics of this. Failures let us get right into it to really understand the machines. Thank you for sharing and great job!
Good repair. Good idea and reindexing the gear.
In a perfect world nothing ever goes wrong Keith. Glad you have the know how to fix it.
Thank you! Really great to see you repair this machine.
Great shop Keith! Good practice to support head while rotating. A good buddy works good.
Keith, on my BP mill whenever I rotate the head in either direction I apply a bit of assistance by lifting/pushing on the head itself such that all the force is not on the worm or gears.
All the best,
Eric
As do I, but I think that this damage came from someone trying to force the gear with the head locked down. I will probably never know for sure.
Not only do i enjoy watching your work,i really like the cleanliness of your machines,,I can only guess how much work u do to keep things wiped down.
Great Video, nice to see you jump in with both feet!
It's always sad to see a good piece of equipment break. As always thanks for the great video Mr. Keith.
Hi Kieth, Nigel from over the pond in England here Love watching your videos, wish I had your man cave with all the toys
i am slowly building up mine but only small modeling stuff. However your programs are teaching me how to think laterally to achieve things Keep it up
The lathe sounds great. Congratulations on a nice rebuild.
Hello Keith,
Always great to see repair video's and I'm looking forward to part 2 when you got the right keycutter, and nice to see the first cut on the Leblond lathe.
Many greetings from Roel.
I was able to get a lot of the gears for my index wells mill straight from Boston gears just and to machine the bores and make my own keyways...GL with it Keith....
Keith, the worm can be used as a template to make a hob to recut the worm gear.
It's not that difficult to do. I'd be willing to discuss it with you if you'd like.
A nice video topic, too.
Thanks,
John
Your idea is mind blowing 👍
Good Luck!!! it helps to have machines to make the parts you need.
Nice to see a machine being fixed using a contemporary lathe
Glad to see you salvage the gear wheel and make the new shaft, It's a good practice to salvage where and when you can. With the two drift holes it seems that part was meant to be installed 180 degrees around should such tooth wear be observed. Great video, as always. I envy your new large shop.
Finally some machine work!
I finally have some machines to work with in the shop!
nothing wrong with using the side of the gear that never gets used anyways ! Great thinking Keith .. The lathe worked sweet , Thumbs up man ..
Keith, on my mill I always support the head while I tilt with the worm gear. The milling head is very heavy for those small gear teeth and way too much leverage multiplies the force on those gear teeth. My mill has the worm shaft hex on both sides of the head so I can hold the weight of the head and crank the ratchet and tilt either direction.
thanks keith mr rucker; unfortunately even newer style machines break occasionally - the older bridgeport i use to operate, the drawbar snapped...industrial supply kenco, enco, msc, mc master...the machine had the older 3/8ths dia. stem...a few deliveries/ send backs...i just dont know what communication snafo(s) transpired over the phone but ultimately got it up and running again. anyway, thanks for the demo. very nice.
The Leblond and the beard are looking good. Nice work.
Nice video on the repair. I think I would have removed the face mill cutter from the milling machine before I tried to move it though.Rick
After watching your video I noticed on my mill a sticker showing a person's arms helping hold and move the head assembly putting less stress on the drive screw. That seems logical if one is not alone.
felt so bad for you brother it hurt me that it broke on ya love the videos. cant wait to see what the new machine is!!! bigger k&t is my guess
Enjoyed....funny, my first thought was to rotate the part 180... Hope it all works out
"Honest Mom, the plate was broke before I touched it!" With a save like that on the big gear you are getting close to being a "Farm Fixer." Smile
Trouble at the Monarch Hilton! Keith, a thought...before reinstalling the worm wheel in its new orientation, what about filling the damaged teeth (at least the boundaries of that region, using brass, JB Weld, an attached plate, or any suitable means) to serve as a STOP so that the worm can't travel into the chowdered area and get jammed, breaking something again and getting the head stuck on the ram? I realize that the table restricts head rotation, but who knows? Does it still do so with the knee all the way down? Does it restrict it enough in that case? You could also grind out the bad teeth, but that's asking for the head to drop unexpectedly.
I have moved some hit-n-miss engines with my engine hoist and typically stop breathing when it is up in the air! A thing I do additionally to using straps is use a safety chain as backup, should something happen to the straps (usually 3 or 4). May not be needed but it sure makes me feel better.
Keith - though your thoughts about lowering the CG are interesting, as well as valid, tilting the head tips a lot of weight to one side making the machine vulnerable to tipping over in the direction of the head. That monster has a lot of weight.Aside from the extreme forces required to bring the head back to vertical. Regardless of what you do the reduction of weight/height is minimal compared to the horizontal tipping forces involve AND the stress on the rotational gears to bring it back up.
thanks for insight to my mill.
Hi Keith, nice project. You need also a prevention to avoid to reach the damaged part of the gear. Otherwise you can broke off the the next teeth.
Thanks for the video - stopping to make one when things don't go as planned is the last thing on most people's minds.
Great video Keith, you got a good plan on turning the gear I would guess that gear would cost a pretty penny.
So nice to have ROOM and a big table to sit it on. :)
Have you checked the position of the damage relative to the position of the head? The damage don't have to be at the lowest point when the head is in the upright position. So turning the gear around 180° don't has to work perfectly.
And i would put two pins in the ends of the damaged part, so the head can't be turned further, to prevent damaging the worm gear and slipping of the head.
Nice to determine a relatively easy fix and relatively inexpensive worm replacement. I am surprised that cast iron was used for the large gear given the stresses on the teeth when rotating the head and the small diameter shaft for the worm. And Yes, the weight of the head assembly needs to be supported in some manner when rotating to minimize stress on the gear teeth. It will turn out just fine.
I don't know which I like better,
working ON the tools, or working
WITH the tools.
This episode gives a bit of both.
steve
Great to see the LeBlonde at work!
Thanks Keith for sharing... I have a similar issue with the power downfeed worm(?) drive on my Wells-Index 845 mill ... gets to a spot and stops downfeed until I push it on past that spot. So thinking there's a stripped out spot on a gear... Need to spend the time to pull that head apart and see what's going on...
keith nice work.
Keith,
Thank you for clarifying cut size. I have always wondered if 10th is what one is taking from the piece.
Thank you,
Bill
Great video Keith things! I was looking for you to say.... No problem with not having the correct woodruff cutter.....for one slot I will grind a flycutter bit for a HSS boring bar, and get the job done...I guess that may be too small of radius ....of course Stefan would had ground a close key cutter to the correct diameter and width, but was going to give you a break there, for not having a tool grinder!
Secondly...I'm not sure if the worm components are fully up to the task...at least without help.....seems to me that I have seen instructions that mentioned giving "lifting" help when the head is horizontal....I always felt like I needed to help it anyway! Maybe keep your eyes open for the correct worm gear part, and if stripped.....see about milling it off to add the correct worm gear to add on.....then swap it out at a more convenient time.
Perfect project for Adam booth (abom) and john Saunders (NYC).
might be forgetting Keith is no slouch, them machines arnt for decorations you know!
Not to mention such colabs take a lot of time to work out and he needs this machine rather quickly.
If I needed to make one, I could.
I was thinkin the same thing tho.
Keith, great video...I have that same milling machine and have been worried about the worm but have not had a problem. I do have a problem with the automatic feed not working on the spindle. Part of that is me not knowing how it is supposed to work. Would love to see a video on that subject. Keep the videos coming.
I am pretty sure I showed how to do that in some video, but who knows which one it was...
Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org I found it! thanks....very helpful
My dear wife, Karin, jumped when the head came off. She thought it was going to fall. You just can't love a woman who loves machines! lol Thanks Keith. Looks like a very workable fix.
I'm glad it did not fall!
I agree it was broken years back, and you were the unlucky fellow to make everything give.
perfect solution to a simple but annoying problem.
Hi Keith,
I've seen that done on Bridgeports far too often.
The worm should not be used to raise or lower the head once it's tipped over more than about 30 degrees.
Lift or lower the head manually, just using the worm to control the movement.
Agreed! I think that what happened is that somebody in the past had tried to crank it up when it was still clamped down.
That was my thought too Keith.
I like the counter weight idea. It would take the strain of that cast iron gear. I'm sure you could devise some simple attachment that would do the trick,
Lucase wiperboxes (the standard english car wiper setup) have the exact same issues with the exact same solution as with that gear. Exactly.
So glad the LeBlond was ready for this project !!
good video, thank you.
Hey Keith, next time could you please show the entire piece being made including when you use the milling machine, great work thank you !
Nice to see you using the LeBlond to make parts. The investment is starting to pay dividends.
thanks for the vid very nice
My first thought was someone had already turned the worm gear 180 so that the head could be used in it's operational range. Your thoughts?
taking the motor off the head made the removal / install easier. Thats what I did to install the 4" riser block on my mill.
I don't know if it is too late but I would suggest you don't assume the roll pin holes are exactly 180 apart, they could possibly have been hand drilled in situ.
I plan to use some transfer punches to mark the new locations just in case that is the situation.
You are a little like me. You always go first class in repairing your equipment. Did you check on the cost and if it can be bought for that gear? That is what I would have one first. That would have made me to just get it working again. Also I know you ben very busy with your new place. But I still hope you go to were the trains are. I love working on old equipment.
finally, you made some chips with the la blond . bummer about the gear being broke. so how much is the new gear if you was to replace it?
Looks like the LaBlonde is gonna be a nice running lathe.
Damn Keith that sucks! But look on the bright side, this'll make some great video content!
You might braze a stop on each end tooth so that you don't go too far and allow the head free wheel down.
Enjoyed 👍
seams like you lucked out one more time it could have ben far worse thanks looking for the next video - good to see lathe at work
One rebuilder of Bridgeports said not to lower the head with the worm gear without manually assisting the head to relieve the weight.
I can’t wait entill you fix the double ee
Keith, had the same issue, suggest you remove handles and levers, they break real easy.
Those ratchet straps make for handy come-a-long to level your lift .Good Luck
Keith why not use the smaller dia woodruff cutter and elongate the slot to correct length. File the new key to suit and you're off to the races. The shallow keyseat will actually work in your favour keeping the shaft stronger without compromising the key itself since this will not have solution will not reduce the shear plane area.
You might also consider cutting some gullets into the old worm gear to make a hob. Some high tensile bronze would make an excellent replacement worm wheel.
Oh and please show more respect for the dial calipers. I cringed when you ran the job to scribe a line.
Keith,
I've ordered as late as 10PM to McMaster-Carr. One time ordering late, I had it late in afternoon next day. I'm just outside Philadelphia.
Take measurements of that gear. Later you may want to machine a hob and cut your own gear.
Yes, I can order anytime on McMaster-Carr, but I have to order before something like 6:00 pm to get it shipped out the same day so that I will get next day delivery. What I should have said was that it was too late to get next day delivery.
That's an unlucky part to be broken. I could see a collaboration video with NYC CNC in your future....
I see Keith had responded to most, if not all, comments.
Hi Keith, would it be possible to use a straight key? i think the additional material would make for a stronger setup.
Possibly, but with the blind setup like it is, a woodruff key would be better.
Nice!
Nice!!
interesting job Keith, why not make the key a simple square type, or must it be a wood-ruff type ?
Thank you clearing up the large gear rotation in earlier video I miss understood you say the damage was 180 now understand 90 rotation puts damage out ow way by the way what did they want to replace that part if even have one ???
I never called to get a price.
fly cut the woodruff key way? and braze / recut the gear?
Could you use a larger diameter cutter of the same thickness, then grind the flat part of the key down to fit? Also did you look up the other gear, I'm curious of what the price is.
Lucky that they didn't pinch the pennies on that toothed gear and only hob the teeth that were needed. Looks like it'll be good as new once you reposition it. I'd lube it up with high content moly grease if you can find a small tube of it (kind of expensive the good stuff, but it holds up to high pressure usage for a long time.)
Hi Keith, could you braze those over, and re-cut the teeth (on the larger gear)?
It's good that you can turn the ring gear 180 degrees and get more use out of it but would that not be considered to be a temporary fix? It looks like the gear is made from bronze or cast iron so could you not take the old worm gear and make a hob out of it to cut a new ring gear? Just thinking out loud......
Do you have a video of restoring a index 645?
drill and ream through the holes in the head for new pin holes in the gear. make a hardened drill bushing for a pilot hole. it will be a pain if you are even half a thou out of position on the mill set up.
or if the holes are close at 180 degrees use a tapered reamer to oversize as needed. tapered pins will be difficult to remove the next time the gear has to come off but it would be possible to do. stamp the outside of the head for future reference.