I’ll admit I was pretty bummed out about it, but actually after listening to your points I am kind of leaning more towards neutral to positive. You made some fantastic points.
As an engineer I think this is mostly positive. They’re removing a potential Achilles heel from the car, taking out some weight, and securing an at-volume supplier in the process. It’s still going to be crazy efficient and look the same, so ultimately this isn’t something you’re going to miss.
All these EV companies have been too focused on high performance and fast acceleration! People don't need to go super fast it just causes accidents and makes them get tickets! Especially with this economy what people really need is a low price and high efficiency and good range.
Moving 100 lb's out of each front wheel (unsprung weight) and into the body will produce superior ride quality with reduced suspension damping and rolling resistance over rough surfaces. Tires can be lighter and last longer--another unsprung weight reduction. The remarkably low weight of the vehicle makes all of this even more significant. Aptera will be a more nimble, capable vehicle--a big win for Aptera owners and the company.
Keep in mind the wheels were already lighter with the hub motors than on a conventional car of an equivalent size and spec, and it performed superbly in the moose test and felt super nice to drive overall, this just improves it but not by much.
That was my concern with hub motors. I drove a Miata (2100lb), increasing the wheel / tire weight by 5lbs had a significant impact on handling (stock wheel and tire is ~38lbs). Remember, it it the cars weight vs wheel assembly weight that determines how fast the tire can respond to road variations. If the wheel tire assembly of the Aptera is the same as the Miata, adding 45lbs for the motor gives you 83lbs for the drive wheels and 45 lbs for rear wheel (no motor). the sprung weight is about 1600lbs. I'm going to assume the weight on all tires is the same, so 530lbs is trying to keep an 83lb wheel assembly in contact with the road. Yikes! The one negative is, unless they are using a limited slip differential, one drive tire on ice, or wet grass, and traction drops significantly (lightly apply the brakes to force power to the wheel on dry pavement). With two driven wheels, you can do a lot of stability control.
As someone who regularly did rallycross on the snow and ice: you do not need AWD, you need good tires. For an efficiency machine the FWD is going to be more efficient, lighter, and cheaper. The light weight of the Aptera is what ACTUALLY matters when it comes to slippery stuff… you will dance on top instead of sinking in and getting stuck. I saw this all the time in rally, the MK1 VW Golfs would just dance over the mud while all of our Subarus slid around everywhere. Just remember - like any car - to choose the right tire for your area, whether that means just a good all season or snow tires for the snow season.
I am really pleased with this update, I was in the Ambassador meeting and saw the July update. Aptera is doing what is necessary to get to production with a reliable vehicle. Although I wanted AWD, I am willing to support, purchase and advocate for the FWD version which will be lighter and therefore more efficient.
As someone that has driven his fair share of super lightweight $h1+b0x cars. You would be amazed at how big a super power being light is for pulling out of the snow. The problem comes when it's time to stop and AWD won't fix that. 😂
@@robertkirchner7981 Efficiency can increased by this change because of the loss of unsprung weight; especially on the uneven roads of city streets. On normal city streets where there are bumps, With nearly 100 lbs of added in-wheel weight now removed from the wheels, there is less forward velocity energy expended to lift the heavy wheels over the bump. With heavy in-wheel motors the upward motion of the wheel will lift the entire car upwards. This will slow the forward velocity of the Aptera. With lighter wheels, the upward force of the bump is instead transferred to the spring (instead of lifting the entire car), After the Aptera passes the bump, the spring will release its energy by pushing the wheel back to the ground but the majority of the Aptera's mass and forward velocity remains mostly unchanged.
You guys in the comments saying it'll be more efficient don't know what they are talking about. And the reasons you give why are preposterous. Also cheaper is yet to be seen. The convertible note fundraiser slide deck showed a potential price of $39,000. This change may have already been factored into that price.
what is positive with this new configuration is that it improves the efficiency of the suspension, because the unsprung masses are considerably reduced...And i think the overall costs are also reduced by simplify wiring and engine controls
I’m just sitting here with my 600 range version reserved, comfortable, watching the launch edition drama unfold knowing all of it will make mine better in the end. ;)
Taking this well-tested motor would mean better repairability too I have to guess, sounds like a win to me The fact that Aptera went this route shows their confidence on pushing the initial production through, other startups at similar position would have shy away and just take a 1year delay to "be safe"
Vitesco state that one of the advantages of the EMR4 is that unlike the EMR3 that was glued together, the EMR4 can be dismantled for servicing. Not only is it smaller, but it is a steamline design allowing different rotors to be used for different power output (40 - 230 kW)
Chris McC has said that the BINC is not affected by this change (or the on-board motor was already known about when they finalized the BINC design). So I suspect this change will not affect the cabin legroom. I'm okay with the change. I was excited about the novelty of the in-wheel motors, but understand the rationale for the change. I'm keeping my Accelerator LE order. But I had another LE reservation for down the road that I have now changed to Sol, AWD, 600 mile.
i would wager a guess and say that aptera had selected the EMR3 before the BINC steel molds where even sent to be cut. i just feel a little like we were left out of the loop for a long time with that being the case.
My Arcimoto FUV has dual motors and 70% of its weight up front. Commuting 16,000 miles in two years, shows me that AWD in a tadpole setup is superfluous in San Diego. Aptera switching to a proven drivertrain ensures that I take delivery of my Accelerator Launch Edition sometime next year.
Vitesco makes great auto parts. Mechanics swear by their transmissions. For me as long as I can drive for free off the solar. It will never be a bad deal.
As a guy who is going to be commuting a couple hours a day between private practice and full time work, the production schedule question had really bugged me. Aptera production times cannot come quickly enough so far as I'm concerned. I'm still going to have to charge weekly, but that solar charging will help to cover the cost of about a third of my mileage, which is SUPER.
I live in Queensland Australia where we get more sunshine than California and snow is extremely rare. I ordered front wheel drive so its not a problem for me. I just have to wait for righthand drive.
Appreciate your positivity Drew! You make a good point about this change eliminating high voltage wiring out to the front wheels and how much of a safety improvement that may be.
Whatever gets these cars on the road where everyone can see that you can drive for free. This car will change a lot of the country's energy needs as every other carmaker will have to adapt.
I'm starting to feel a lot better about the change in motors. The EMR3 does look like it's the better choice than the EMR4. Also, the front wheel drive version was what I had chosen before switching to the Launch Edition, so that doesn't bother me because I've had numerous front wheel drive cars and they were perfectly happy in snow and ice conditions.
Glad to see the smaller, cheaper EMR-3 over a bigger EMR-4. Hoping to soon see a production intent prototype with this new motor, the finalized suspension, cooling, software, and interior. You're totally right about snow tires being workable for most winter driving. I do worry about snow getting tossed up into the front wheel covers.
Regardless of tyres, my old lightweight three wheeled reliant regal never had any problems at all in the snow, when all other cars were stuck I would just fly past them..I think the light weight made the difference.
Aptera made the roght decision to go with that proven all all in one powertrain . It refines it maturity light years ahead of many designs .unsprung weight and so much more connections and Wiring. It literally can be unvolted and removed for any servicing which there is no servicing needed so endless wins with full manufactures warranty support. One stop shop!
If you’re considering giving up your spot or delaying your reservation for any reason, I’d be thrilled to swap spots with you! I’m currently around 42,000th on the reservation list for Aptera because I somehow only discovered them about a year ago. Since then, I’ve been absolutely obsessed with the vehicle. :)
Being a Canadian, I will wait for my all wheel drive/off-roader version. Because of the heavy snow conditions, I always drive all wheel drive vehicles for better traction. Of course we all use winter tires. Its mandatory here for us in our province.
Front wheel drive vehicles, normally do decent in the snow, not only b/c of the tires, but b/c of the WEIGHT placement being on the tires.. which gives better traction.
My only hope with a central motor rather than in-wheel motors is that they make the half-shafts with equal length to avoid torque steer. I have driven some souped up front wheel drive cars with unequal length drive shafts that were basically undriveable, well unless fighting to keep the vehicle on the road every time you punch the throttle is your definition of a "good time". One good aspect of a central motor will definitely be a potential improvement in vehicle dynamics without the extra unsprung weight of the hub motors. In a car this light, sprung to unsprung weight ratio could be a major factor in drivability. It might also allow a higher spring rate to give more body lean control in corners without the higher frequency body movement over bumps that feels so jarring and unpleasant to most people. So even through the wheel motors have a much higher "Cool!" factor, I am glade they moved to a single motor.
But I still would prefer the all-wheel drive version, especially with a vehicle control computer tuned well enough to determine if the vehicle is understeering too much and so send a little more power to the rear wheel to get the back end to step out a little and keep body angle closer to steering angle, of course without going into massive oversteer which gets the old sphincter puckering.
The hub motors were a very bad idea anyway. Unsprung mass is just stupid. I am glad that they have found a sensible solution. The wheel hub motors would have been a dealbreaker for many potential customers.
A small 10-20 kw hub motor in the rear to provide efficiency when cruising would be ideal. It is minor as far as acceleration but would exist for efficiency and winter traction.
@@ccibinel A smaller Motor does not consume less energy doing the same Work. Do not compare electric motors with ICE Engines. A Small extra motor in the rear wheel will decrease efficiency. Secondly, hub motors may have way to many stress with potholes and might die quite fast. Especially on US motorways where at some places the road is awful.
If AWD is out, I think I'm out too. Being stupid quick was definitely part of what sold me on this eco spaceship in the first place. This single vitesco motor offers around 1/2 the power advertised in the AWD model I pre ordered.
Who was the other user for Elaphe motors? Lightyear. They went bankrupt. Development for hub motors slowed and the data to validate hub motors at Aptera's decision deadline wasn't there. Fortunately Aptera planned ahead for this possibility. Maybe why the BinC wasn't designed with a frunk.
Safe to say there was some disruption between Elaphe and Aptera. I heard Elapse CEO say "can not wait forever - have other clients". Main cause was "dreadful EV startup funding", as Elaphe CCO states on LinkedIn. Still hurts that EMR3 looks now like the third best choice behind IWM, EMR4. But maybe it was a wise decision eventually. Front wheel drive was my first choice anyway.
Actually I think the inboard motor with driveshafts. Is better for the front wheels. A hub motor for the rear wheel. Is an easy solution for all wheel drive. I won't be buying one without it. I have the 600mile reserved. Hopefully they will have all wheel drive figured out by then.
Front wheel drive might torque steer like the Bolt(same power) if you really get on it, and this thing will have the power to lift the front off the line, but it will be plenty quick.
150KW for a 2000lb vehicle is insane. I had a 1972 VW transporter which weighed 2600 lbs and it had a 44KW engine and it was probably almost the worst aerodynamic shape you could have, and it was still able to go 60mph (barely) on a flat road. I drove it cross country twice which was sometimes challenging, especially going over the Rockies and Sierra Nevada Mountains.
I'm excited about it! Almost as powerful as the trimotor arrangement and a proven drivetrain. I would still like AWD, and wondering if an OEM kit will be possible for retrofitting a rear hub motor down the road?
Its an unknown in terms of cost / complexity. Chris said if you take half the car apart anything can be done but the real question is cost. The safe assumption is to assume it wont be practical.
My original order was for FWD as well. FWD meets my needs. And those folks who think AWD will take care of their snow/mud/sand needs maybe shouldn’t drive in those conditions to begin with.
Getting to market with two wheel drive is a good plan. There comes the time in every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship. Get revenue coming in. That said, I want the ability to retrofit the rear wheel drive. It makes a difference in ice and snow. It doesn't help the stopping but it does help the going when things are marginal. Also, all wheel drive avoids the chain up parties! Putting chains on the front wheels would be interesting and socks are not the best thing especially in icing conditions.
The big dynamic loss of going to a single motor is electronic torque vectoring. Similar behavior can be gained via differential braking, but it's not the same when it comes to fine control, mainly due to the differential fighting the brakes.
Thanks for your quick coverage. My concern is not really acceleration or top speed, although I agree that both are fun. I think there is a decrease in maximum potential efficiency, but this is overcome by getting vehicles out on the road. Remember that Tesla shipped vehicles with breaking transmissions for their first year of production. Aptea is going to be shipping well tested, functional vehicles.
Canadian here. 4-wheel dive/all-wheel drive makes a huge difference over just snow tires on a 2WD. I had a 4WD Nissan Sentra wagon many, many years ago that could easily plow through snow that was over the bumper. Meanwhile, my FWDs can only handle snow lower than the undercarriage. That said, I love the Aptera and wish it would come to Canada. I don't think I can wait until 2030 though, when it will probably get here.
@@jamespaul2587 agreed. There are many red flags, but the fact that the current owners bought back creative control is a positive. It's good to have leadership that is passionate about their product as long as they can still see reality. The change in motors is both a red flag and a good thing at the same time. Red flag because they were trying to push too many new technologies or approaches at the same time. A good thing because it shows that they are able to adapt to the situation. I do think that they will get to production given the investments they have already made, but, based on their history, I suspect that there will be more delays.
@@peterstasinaki642 I'm in Ontario as well and as far as I can tell, they haven't even started the legal discussions with the province. It will take more than two years just to get the laws changed to recognize the Aptera as a car instead of a motorcycle. On top of that, I suspect that they will continue to focus on the American market since the Canadian market is negligible in comparison.. Aptera has had a history of delays and we're not talking weeks or months, they've had years of delays. It seems better now, but they haven't built up enough trust yet to rely on their plans and predictions. I do appreciate that they've adapted their plan to adjust for the availability of technology, but it's quite late in the game to make such a fundamental shift. That said, I really like that it's a ground up design and that they are taking a right-to-repair approach. I strongly believe that it's a great concept and will be a good product, but I don't think we will see it on Canadian roads until 29 or 30.
Most of the commentators must be young. How many decades did drivers ONLY have two wheel drive cars, and still used them in snow? Yes, this writer DOES know of snow. I live in a part of Canada that was stolen by the USA from circa 1700 to the Aroostook Wars of the 19th Century.
Good video. I'm one of those who has really chilled on Aptera over the last week. The info about the motor being even more powerful than all three hub motors is intriguing. Will be interesting to see what it can do. I'm still on the fence about waiting for AWD though. I'm perfectly okay if they do as you suggest and just use the on board motor up front and in wheel in the rear. Still very concerned about pricing though. If the price ends up even in the ballpark of 40k, I'm out for sure. I'm signed up for the AWD with the 250 mile battery. If that even costs 35k, I'm out. Just too much for what it is. Anyways, I appreciate the work you put into these videos!
@7:00 couldn’t be more on the ball with snow tires. On more than a couple occasions I’ve passed 4WD BoF SUVs spinning all four tires, in a mk4 front-wheel drive Golf with winters. I have nothing objective to back this up, but I sometimes think that the Golf was better on dedicated winters than my AWD Outback with 3-Peak all-terrains. Maybe someday I’ll borrow one and test.
I am glad they will be able to launch the production Aptera. I am a reservation holder, and I am looking forward to driving my Aptera *very much*. One concern that I have is that EMR3 will be located so that the differential is in the center of the Aptera - so that the half shafts are equal length. This would limit torque steer. They can't move the drivetrain back - the chassis is locked in, and changing the largest piece of the chassis. Also, the half shafts are going to be a hit to the Cd; so there are some downsides to conventional FWD.
Good point about the snow with front wheel. I remember ages ago going onto the highway in my Ford Escort passing a Jeep Wrangler who was stuck in the snow.
Don't mind about the motor change but I do wish they'd figure out how to make it narrow enough to work in countries outside USA. You know, where we have normal width cars, roads, parking spaces.
Tailosive, thank you for touching on the EMR4 vs EMR3 ... I saw some comments on the Transportation Evolved channel that had "cold weather" people screaming about balance between the front and rear wheel with where the battery is for traction. Do you think that is an issue? Also, do you think Aptera will ever become better communicators for people who have been waiting for years for an Aptera? Waiting once a month to hear from them seems to be creating a lot of very vocal doubts.
If an accident happens the first thing that will happen is that the contactors will disconnect the battery. There would be no high voltage at the wheel.
150kw is almost double the power of my current small fwd Toyota. With better aerodynamics and less weight it's going to be a lot of fun to drive. I'm thinking the top speed will be up to 110mph again or maybe even higher.
Unless you have experience driving in snow (live in Wyoming), you may want to reserve commenting about it. I don't think we can assume how the two-wheel drive system will work in snow, or the effects of being light weight, or snow packing in the wheel wells. This all needs real world testing before we can say.
I commute with an Arcimoto FUV, another electric tadpole with 70% of the weight up front. Sixteen thousand miles in two years shows me how AWD on a three wheeler is superfluous.
I'm holding out for an AWD version with an offroad package. I live in rural southwest Colorado, so I'll also need to see how it handles mountain passes and unpaved snowy roads. For sure snow tires will be needed.
The Lotus Elise is 2000lbs with 189hp and went 0-60 around 5-6 seconds, so the new front only motor Aptera at 2k-lbs I'd expect it to go just a little faster if it's 200hp if the front wheel drive can keep the grip up with decent tires.
There are so many innovative (and somewhat untried) ideas in this vehicle that anything they can do to reduce uncertainty is welcome and the more they can make use of proven components, the more likely production will go smoothly.
Something to think about: The Aptera 2e prototype of over 10 years ago with a similar front wheel drive setup had a 0 to 60 time of less than 10 seconds. The new one with twice the horsepower and better torque figures should, on paper, get to 0 to 60 in significantly less than 5 seconds.
Great video. Yes, I believe they made the right decision. My one concern is how efficient the air conditioning system is going to be. Living in Vegas it's going to be a huge priority for me. Not that it will dissuade me from buying one. I have already decided to have a solar charger hooked up so I can be charging while it is my garage.
I think the new motor has more power than what is safe for such a small car. I think motorcycle/ Tesla like performance will lead to excessive high-speed crashes/ deaths. Thereby damaging the brand/design's safety reputation. I feel like the main draw for this vehicle should be efficiency, reliability, safety, and not requiring charging infrastructure at home and destination, having a great range when plugging into 120V 15A circuit overnight. Please do not focus on crazy speed and handling. It would be best if the street mode was governed to 95MPH and did not have acceleration beyond that of a Civic S. Know your customer. Are you going for the Kia crowd or the Suzuki crowd? Kia is selling a lot more vehicles than Suzuki and hopefully moving the value mined driver away from low economy vehicles like the F150 and large SUVs when the higher payload capacity is unneeded. The Aptera is the first electric car I have seriously considered buying because of the traits I indicated above. When energy prices double, the working class in America will need cars like this to offset the rising costs of living. This car could cut U.S. commuting costs for individual / pair traveling more than half, reduce required rode maintenance cost, reduce pollution in city centers, reduce petroleum use, and increase physical resource availability for "making America great again," "the green revolution," and like phrases.
I see that the price has been reduced on my reservation. I'll not sure if it will stay that low, but it is a difference maker. The EMR3 seem like a good drive unit and if the price stays on the $30K side if things I am good with it.
I noticed the LE configuration page now indicates FWD. I’m guessing the pricing model has not changed, but the price is reduced, according to the pricing model, for FWD.
I am becoming more and more enamored with the decision to use this tried and true motor in the Aptera rather than the in-wheel motors. Makes sense for the back wheel to be of this design. My original order was for the front wheel only version. Seems like they’ve planned this powertrain as an option, should the in-wheel motors not cut the mustard. It simplifies maters a bit too putting all the power generation right there in the front just like every Tom, Dick and Harry’s electric vehicle. I look forward to the PI builds for seeing how it works in practice. Thanks for the interesting content. Looking forward to your critique of the PI 2.
Aptera has always been about efficiency first in everything that they have said and done…. Not going this route really would have been a betrayal of their own goals. It’s hard to admit that your original idea was inferior in multiple ways and for making the change they deserve praise not backlash. This configuration will allow easier changes in the future so far as different optional power levels for different models. One of the many limitations of hub motors is limits on power levels before breaking parts. Only way to add enough strength to the mountings are building heavy and/or with expensive materials.
The whole point of hub motors is efficiency, which is why they were chosen for the Aptera. I need a car with all wheel drive, so sadly I've cancelled my reservation.
If the Aptera chose the 230kw EMR4 motor, it would have the power to weight ratio of the Tesla Plaid. As is, the EMR3 150kw (201 HP) motor pushing the 2,100 lb Aptera with forward weight bias will be no slouch!
@@a5-30-31cts EMR4 has different power configurations. The middle one is around 160 kw. The big reason for the EMR4 would be to allow the motors to shut off and cruise at highway speed more efficiently. As aptera scales I would expect them to switch.
Hey man I love your videos I’ve watched you for years. I am noticing in your videos you aren’t letting any pauses anywhere and I think it has to do with your editing. The audience needs pauses and not a complete run on sentence. Please take the feedback. I just sounds at times like there aren’t any pauses. I am not sure if this is new but I’m noticing it more and more in your videos. I hope this isn’t negative, it would improve our experience.
Can't wait to read government required testing results! You know: crash, off road, bad weather and distance driving. Crash testing will be of interest to insurance companies so they can determine monthly insurance premiums $. It would be also helpful if company executives could tell us their plans for supplying repair stuff including body parts? Or are they going to be like Tesla where you have to be serviced by only Tesla?
The Aptera vehicle configuration I reserved will likely be available in 2028 (if ever). That said, I look forward to regular updates/news regarding Aptera vehicle design, production, real world tests, and owners' experiences.
Vitesco EMR4 vs EMR3: - Weighs 25 percent less at the same power level. 66 vs 77 kg. - 5.6% efficiency advantage in the WLTP. - Smaller. So the big question (to ask) is WHY the EMR3!? Has Hyundai bought up all the EMR4s for the next 5 years or something?
Your mom's car has front wheel drive, snow tires and 4 wheels. Aptera has 3 wheels. So the AWD system would help balance things out a little. But you are right snow tires make a big difference. And when stopping anti lock breaks and the tires matter. AWD doesn't help stop the car. Hopefully, they will do extensive testing this winter with the PI models. Outdoor winter weather testing facilities do exist. They should have enough PI models built to test this winter. So the timing for that is good. I'm also still waiting for the crash test data. If all the testing comes back with excellent results. Then I will buy the LE edition. If not I will wait. My other concern is pricing. I know the final price isn't out yet but I am concerned the vehicle will be too expensive for someone like me.
When you lose grip on the rear wheel of a 3-wheeler yyou have a REAL problem! It's by far the greates safety concern with 3-wheelers. Pure physics. That said, a powered rear wheel is just added complexity for keeping the AWD 3-wheeler as safe as the equivalent FWD.
I want to know what kind of traction control and torque vectoring does this drive train have. Having regenerated braking on the rear wheel had some real advantages that may be lost
@@stix2you you don’t get what I am saying on ice braking with the rear is safer than the front like down shifting with a rear wheel vehicle the rear wheel regen could of made this possible. The pendulum effect.
You're pretty much wrong about fwd vs awd on ice and snow. But i guess ill be stuck driving my Aptera for four or five months out of the year if i still want one. 😕
Thanks for your sharing. I too originally ordered the FW for the same reasons. Do you really think leg rooms will be shortened as that is dictated by the SMC, which is already set. I agree, since I have been in all the development vehicles… There has always been lots of legroom, says this nearly six foot dude😉 Until Friday’s podcast update !
This change hopefully allow them to keep the price close to the origional pricing, however the fun to drive factor of the Gamma will be gone despite the higher power because it will need to be controled. Without a motor for each front wheel the tork vectoring and electronic traction control there will be problems in slipery conditions unless the is traction control with ABS with traction control. that reduce speed and efficency.
@@TailosiveEV Yes, like is done in the Fiat 500e they severly limit the initial tork leaving it with about an 8 sec 0 to 60, pluss they have Antilock brakes with traction control, so it dosent have the problems.
I’ll admit I was pretty bummed out about it, but actually after listening to your points I am kind of leaning more towards neutral to positive. You made some fantastic points.
As an engineer I think this is mostly positive. They’re removing a potential Achilles heel from the car, taking out some weight, and securing an at-volume supplier in the process. It’s still going to be crazy efficient and look the same, so ultimately this isn’t something you’re going to miss.
@@slickfast 100% agree.
@slickfast won't the halfshaft cause some design changes?
@@golfish8589 of course it’ll take a bit of extra design work to integrate the motor unit and CV axles, but those designs are very well understood.
All these EV companies have been too focused on high performance and fast acceleration! People don't need to go super fast it just causes accidents and makes them get tickets! Especially with this economy what people really need is a low price and high efficiency and good range.
Moving 100 lb's out of each front wheel (unsprung weight) and into the body will produce superior ride quality with reduced suspension damping and rolling resistance over rough surfaces. Tires can be lighter and last longer--another unsprung weight reduction. The remarkably low weight of the vehicle makes all of this even more significant. Aptera will be a more nimble, capable vehicle--a big win for Aptera owners and the company.
That’s 45 lb per wheel softer ride not more nimble or better handling
Exactly!
Keep in mind the wheels were already lighter with the hub motors than on a conventional car of an equivalent size and spec, and it performed superbly in the moose test and felt super nice to drive overall, this just improves it but not by much.
With the unsprung weight changing so much they will have to go back to the drawing board concerning suspension tuning.
That was my concern with hub motors. I drove a Miata (2100lb), increasing the wheel / tire weight by 5lbs had a significant impact on handling (stock wheel and tire is ~38lbs). Remember, it it the cars weight vs wheel assembly weight that determines how fast the tire can respond to road variations.
If the wheel tire assembly of the Aptera is the same as the Miata, adding 45lbs for the motor gives you 83lbs for the drive wheels and 45 lbs for rear wheel (no motor). the sprung weight is about 1600lbs. I'm going to assume the weight on all tires is the same, so 530lbs is trying to keep an 83lb wheel assembly in contact with the road. Yikes!
The one negative is, unless they are using a limited slip differential, one drive tire on ice, or wet grass, and traction drops significantly (lightly apply the brakes to force power to the wheel on dry pavement). With two driven wheels, you can do a lot of stability control.
I’m fine with the drivetrain change. I want to drive that aerodynamic solar charging car
The virtual EV has been virtually improved. It should be virtually better than the previous virtual version… virtually speaking. 🥹
So glad they are moving ahead. Two wheel drive gets me where I need to go, snow tires as needed. Thanks for your enthusiasm.
As someone who regularly did rallycross on the snow and ice: you do not need AWD, you need good tires. For an efficiency machine the FWD is going to be more efficient, lighter, and cheaper. The light weight of the Aptera is what ACTUALLY matters when it comes to slippery stuff… you will dance on top instead of sinking in and getting stuck. I saw this all the time in rally, the MK1 VW Golfs would just dance over the mud while all of our Subarus slid around everywhere. Just remember - like any car - to choose the right tire for your area, whether that means just a good all season or snow tires for the snow season.
I’d rather have 2WD in one year than 3WD in two years. So I think they made the right call.
I'm curious and excited to see how many they crank out in their first production scale and how it will scale over time.
Two more years! You guys will believe anything.
When a company "hollers uncle" on a basic concept they have been touting and testing for years, time to find another dream.
@@chawpino8320 Aptera 2.0 is like the U.S. Marine Corp ... they improvise, adapt, and overcome. 🙂
@@chawpino8320 I heard "Voila!"
I am really pleased with this update, I was in the Ambassador meeting and saw the July update. Aptera is doing what is necessary to get to production with a reliable vehicle. Although I wanted AWD, I am willing to support, purchase and advocate for the FWD version which will be lighter and therefore more efficient.
SUCKER!
As someone that has driven his fair share of super lightweight $h1+b0x cars. You would be amazed at how big a super power being light is for pulling out of the snow. The problem comes when it's time to stop and AWD won't fix that. 😂
My stock 2nd gen Rav4 would go a lot of places Tacomas and F150s would go in deep snow.
Being able to Break the rear wheel like down shifting would help. Regen on the rear wheel had some real advantages
The real shit boxes are the overweight crossover-SUV-pickup emotional support vehicles that are a danger to everyone on the road.
@@toyotaprius79 You've sure got that right. Few people need those monsters.
@@robertwakeman1679brake 😊
So Aptera got cheaper, lost some weight, and is more efficient? Sounds like a big win to me :)
Where did you hear that it will be more efficient? What did you hear? What did I miss? To me efficiency matters more than anything else.
@@robertkirchner7981 The motor can be more efficient as it doesn't have to fit in a wheel as a radial motor can increase efficiency with length.
@@robertkirchner7981 Efficiency can increased by this change because of the loss of unsprung weight; especially on the uneven roads of city streets. On normal city streets where there are bumps, With nearly 100 lbs of added in-wheel weight now removed from the wheels, there is less forward velocity energy expended to lift the heavy wheels over the bump. With heavy in-wheel motors the upward motion of the wheel will lift the entire car upwards. This will slow the forward velocity of the Aptera. With lighter wheels, the upward force of the bump is instead transferred to the spring (instead of lifting the entire car), After the Aptera passes the bump, the spring will release its energy by pushing the wheel back to the ground but the majority of the Aptera's mass and forward velocity remains mostly unchanged.
I don't know about cheaper.
You guys in the comments saying it'll be more efficient don't know what they are talking about. And the reasons you give why are preposterous. Also cheaper is yet to be seen. The convertible note fundraiser slide deck showed a potential price of $39,000. This change may have already been factored into that price.
what is positive with this new configuration is that it improves the efficiency of the suspension, because the unsprung masses are considerably reduced...And i think the overall costs are also reduced by simplify wiring and engine controls
I’m just sitting here with my 600 range version reserved, comfortable, watching the launch edition drama unfold knowing all of it will make mine better in the end. ;)
Taking this well-tested motor would mean better repairability too I have to guess, sounds like a win to me
The fact that Aptera went this route shows their confidence on pushing the initial production through, other startups at similar position would have shy away and just take a 1year delay to "be safe"
Vitesco state that one of the advantages of the EMR4 is that unlike the EMR3 that was glued together, the EMR4 can be dismantled for servicing. Not only is it smaller, but it is a steamline design allowing different rotors to be used for different power output (40 - 230 kW)
Chris McC has said that the BINC is not affected by this change (or the on-board motor was already known about when they finalized the BINC design). So I suspect this change will not affect the cabin legroom.
I'm okay with the change. I was excited about the novelty of the in-wheel motors, but understand the rationale for the change. I'm keeping my Accelerator LE order. But I had another LE reservation for down the road that I have now changed to Sol, AWD, 600 mile.
If you look closely at the June Update, room was made for this motor by relocating the suspension springs to make room for the axles.
i would wager a guess and say that aptera had selected the EMR3 before the BINC steel molds where even sent to be cut.
i just feel a little like we were left out of the loop for a long time with that being the case.
I believe they had this option in mind but weren't sure if they had to go through with it.
My Arcimoto FUV has dual motors and 70% of its weight up front.
Commuting 16,000 miles in two years, shows me that AWD in a tadpole setup is superfluous in San Diego.
Aptera switching to a proven drivertrain ensures that I take delivery of my Accelerator Launch Edition sometime next year.
i am in love with everything about this car and really believe it will be a big success. next year i hope to be able to order one.
It's only $100 to order one.
Vitesco makes great auto parts. Mechanics swear by their transmissions. For me as long as I can drive for free off the solar. It will never be a bad deal.
As a guy who is going to be commuting a couple hours a day between private practice and full time work, the production schedule question had really bugged me. Aptera production times cannot come quickly enough so far as I'm concerned. I'm still going to have to charge weekly, but that solar charging will help to cover the cost of about a third of my mileage, which is SUPER.
I live in Queensland Australia where we get more sunshine than California and snow is extremely rare. I ordered front wheel drive so its not a problem for me. I just have to wait for righthand drive.
I've driven my front wheel drive 2005 Corolla in the snow in Ontario since I bought it new. As was said snow tires are what you need.
Appreciate your positivity Drew! You make a good point about this change eliminating high voltage wiring out to the front wheels and how much of a safety improvement that may be.
Whatever gets these cars on the road where everyone can see that you can drive for free. This car will change a lot of the country's energy needs as every other carmaker will have to adapt.
I'm starting to feel a lot better about the change in motors. The EMR3 does look like it's the better choice than the EMR4. Also, the front wheel drive version was what I had chosen before switching to the Launch Edition, so that doesn't bother me because I've had numerous front wheel drive cars and they were perfectly happy in snow and ice conditions.
Glad to see the smaller, cheaper EMR-3 over a bigger EMR-4. Hoping to soon see a production intent prototype with this new motor, the finalized suspension, cooling, software, and interior. You're totally right about snow tires being workable for most winter driving. I do worry about snow getting tossed up into the front wheel covers.
Regardless of tyres, my old lightweight three wheeled reliant regal never had any problems at all in the snow, when all other cars were stuck I would just fly past them..I think the light weight made the difference.
Aptera made the roght decision to go with that proven all all in one powertrain . It refines it maturity light years ahead of many designs .unsprung weight and so much more connections and Wiring. It literally can be unvolted and removed for any servicing which there is no servicing needed so endless wins with full manufactures warranty support. One stop shop!
If you’re considering giving up your spot or delaying your reservation for any reason, I’d be thrilled to swap spots with you! I’m currently around 42,000th on the reservation list for Aptera because I somehow only discovered them about a year ago. Since then, I’ve been absolutely obsessed with the vehicle. :)
Hell yeah, making it easier to bring to market and scale up.
Being a Canadian, I will wait for my all wheel drive/off-roader version. Because of the heavy snow conditions, I always drive all wheel drive vehicles for better traction. Of course we all use winter tires. Its mandatory here for us in our province.
The Aptera may not be suitable for Canadian winters, especially in areas of heavy snowfall such as Quebec.
Front wheel drive vehicles, normally do decent in the snow, not only b/c of the tires, but b/c of the WEIGHT placement being on the tires.. which gives better traction.
Its Ya BOY‼️‼️‼️‼️ This is great news...i have an aptera on order and really looking forward to it
I love this development because I've always been concerned about the unsprung weight issue. Bummer it happened so late, but here we are.
The BinC tub is set so they can't move leg room into the engine compartment.
That's a really good point! Good too, cause I'm 6'4". I usually need all the room I can get!
My only hope with a central motor rather than in-wheel motors is that they make the half-shafts with equal length to avoid torque steer. I have driven some souped up front wheel drive cars with unequal length drive shafts that were basically undriveable, well unless fighting to keep the vehicle on the road every time you punch the throttle is your definition of a "good time".
One good aspect of a central motor will definitely be a potential improvement in vehicle dynamics without the extra unsprung weight of the hub motors. In a car this light, sprung to unsprung weight ratio could be a major factor in drivability. It might also allow a higher spring rate to give more body lean control in corners without the higher frequency body movement over bumps that feels so jarring and unpleasant to most people.
So even through the wheel motors have a much higher "Cool!" factor, I am glade they moved to a single motor.
But I still would prefer the all-wheel drive version, especially with a vehicle control computer tuned well enough to determine if the vehicle is understeering too much and so send a little more power to the rear wheel to get the back end to step out a little and keep body angle closer to steering angle, of course without going into massive oversteer which gets the old sphincter puckering.
The hub motors were a very bad idea anyway. Unsprung mass is just stupid. I am glad that they have found a sensible solution. The wheel hub motors would have been a dealbreaker for many potential customers.
A small 10-20 kw hub motor in the rear to provide efficiency when cruising would be ideal. It is minor as far as acceleration but would exist for efficiency and winter traction.
@@ccibinel A smaller Motor does not consume less energy doing the same Work. Do not compare electric motors with ICE Engines. A Small extra motor in the rear wheel will decrease efficiency. Secondly, hub motors may have way to many stress with potholes and might die quite fast. Especially on US motorways where at some places the road is awful.
Unsprung mass is a bad idea, particularly when it is cantilevered so far out from the center of gravity.
If AWD is out, I think I'm out too. Being stupid quick was definitely part of what sold me on this eco spaceship in the first place. This single vitesco motor offers around 1/2 the power advertised in the AWD model I pre ordered.
127kw was what it was before. Now it’s 150kw
It’ll be stupid quick. Website 0-60 isn’t accurate yet
Fantastic! Are they thinking of maybe making and delivering an actual car?
Who was the other user for Elaphe motors? Lightyear. They went bankrupt. Development for hub motors slowed and the data to validate hub motors at Aptera's decision deadline wasn't there. Fortunately Aptera planned ahead for this possibility. Maybe why the BinC wasn't designed with a frunk.
Safe to say there was some disruption between Elaphe and Aptera. I heard Elapse CEO say "can not wait forever - have other clients". Main cause was "dreadful EV startup funding", as Elaphe CCO states on LinkedIn. Still hurts that EMR3 looks now like the third best choice behind IWM, EMR4. But maybe it was a wise decision eventually. Front wheel drive was my first choice anyway.
An on board Motor is a good move, definitely will improve the ride because of a better unsprung mass ratio to sprung mass
Actually I think the inboard motor with driveshafts. Is better for the front wheels. A hub motor for the rear wheel. Is an easy solution for all wheel drive. I won't be buying one without it. I have the 600mile reserved. Hopefully they will have all wheel drive figured out by then.
Front wheel drive might torque steer like the Bolt(same power) if you really get on it, and this thing will have the power to lift the front off the line, but it will be plenty quick.
150KW for a 2000lb vehicle is insane. I had a 1972 VW transporter which weighed 2600 lbs and it had a 44KW engine and it was probably almost the worst aerodynamic shape you could have, and it was still able to go 60mph (barely) on a flat road. I drove it cross country twice which was sometimes challenging, especially going over the Rockies and Sierra Nevada Mountains.
It does spell big traction issues
150 kW is peak power, with only 50 kW continuous power rating
I'm excited about it! Almost as powerful as the trimotor arrangement and a proven drivetrain. I would still like AWD, and wondering if an OEM kit will be possible for retrofitting a rear hub motor down the road?
Its an unknown in terms of cost / complexity. Chris said if you take half the car apart anything can be done but the real question is cost. The safe assumption is to assume it wont be practical.
This motor-drive train upgrade sounds like some good engineering!
My original order was for FWD as well. FWD meets my needs. And those folks who think AWD will take care of their snow/mud/sand needs maybe shouldn’t drive in those conditions to begin with.
This approach makes way more sense and I don’t know why they didn’t start with it
Shell
Getting to market with two wheel drive is a good plan. There comes the time in every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship. Get revenue coming in. That said, I want the ability to retrofit the rear wheel drive. It makes a difference in ice and snow. It doesn't help the stopping but it does help the going when things are marginal. Also, all wheel drive avoids the chain up parties! Putting chains on the front wheels would be interesting and socks are not the best thing especially in icing conditions.
The big dynamic loss of going to a single motor is electronic torque vectoring. Similar behavior can be gained via differential braking, but it's not the same when it comes to fine control, mainly due to the differential fighting the brakes.
Yes, no torque vectoring. But the Aptera is supposed to be about high efficiency, not Hi Tec performance.
So I am back to my originally ordered FWD Aptera! 😁
Thanks for your quick coverage. My concern is not really acceleration or top speed, although I agree that both are fun.
I think there is a decrease in maximum potential efficiency, but this is overcome by getting vehicles out on the road. Remember that Tesla shipped vehicles with breaking transmissions for their first year of production. Aptea is going to be shipping well tested, functional vehicles.
Canadian here. 4-wheel dive/all-wheel drive makes a huge difference over just snow tires on a 2WD. I had a 4WD Nissan Sentra wagon many, many years ago that could easily plow through snow that was over the bumper. Meanwhile, my FWDs can only handle snow lower than the undercarriage.
That said, I love the Aptera and wish it would come to Canada. I don't think I can wait until 2030 though, when it will probably get here.
It's also unknown at this time whether Aptera will survive and make it to volume production, especially with the ongoing changes and delays.
I’m in Ontario. My reservation currently says 2025 delivery. I’m figuring it will be 2026.
@@jamespaul2587 agreed. There are many red flags, but the fact that the current owners bought back creative control is a positive. It's good to have leadership that is passionate about their product as long as they can still see reality.
The change in motors is both a red flag and a good thing at the same time. Red flag because they were trying to push too many new technologies or approaches at the same time. A good thing because it shows that they are able to adapt to the situation.
I do think that they will get to production given the investments they have already made, but, based on their history, I suspect that there will be more delays.
@@peterstasinaki642 I'm in Ontario as well and as far as I can tell, they haven't even started the legal discussions with the province. It will take more than two years just to get the laws changed to recognize the Aptera as a car instead of a motorcycle. On top of that, I suspect that they will continue to focus on the American market since the Canadian market is negligible in comparison..
Aptera has had a history of delays and we're not talking weeks or months, they've had years of delays. It seems better now, but they haven't built up enough trust yet to rely on their plans and predictions. I do appreciate that they've adapted their plan to adjust for the availability of technology, but it's quite late in the game to make such a fundamental shift.
That said, I really like that it's a ground up design and that they are taking a right-to-repair approach. I strongly believe that it's a great concept and will be a good product, but I don't think we will see it on Canadian roads until 29 or 30.
Most of the commentators must be young. How many decades did drivers ONLY have two wheel drive cars, and still used them in snow? Yes, this writer DOES know of snow. I live in a part of Canada that was stolen by the USA from circa 1700 to the Aroostook Wars of the 19th Century.
Good video. I'm one of those who has really chilled on Aptera over the last week. The info about the motor being even more powerful than all three hub motors is intriguing. Will be interesting to see what it can do. I'm still on the fence about waiting for AWD though. I'm perfectly okay if they do as you suggest and just use the on board motor up front and in wheel in the rear.
Still very concerned about pricing though. If the price ends up even in the ballpark of 40k, I'm out for sure. I'm signed up for the AWD with the 250 mile battery. If that even costs 35k, I'm out. Just too much for what it is.
Anyways, I appreciate the work you put into these videos!
@7:00 couldn’t be more on the ball with snow tires. On more than a couple occasions I’ve passed 4WD BoF SUVs spinning all four tires, in a mk4 front-wheel drive Golf with winters. I have nothing objective to back this up, but I sometimes think that the Golf was better on dedicated winters than my AWD Outback with 3-Peak all-terrains. Maybe someday I’ll borrow one and test.
I am glad they will be able to launch the production Aptera. I am a reservation holder, and I am looking forward to driving my Aptera *very much*. One concern that I have is that EMR3 will be located so that the differential is in the center of the Aptera - so that the half shafts are equal length. This would limit torque steer.
They can't move the drivetrain back - the chassis is locked in, and changing the largest piece of the chassis.
Also, the half shafts are going to be a hit to the Cd; so there are some downsides to conventional FWD.
Good point about the snow with front wheel. I remember ages ago going onto the highway in my Ford Escort passing a Jeep Wrangler who was stuck in the snow.
Don't mind about the motor change but I do wish they'd figure out how to make it narrow enough to work in countries outside USA. You know, where we have normal width cars, roads, parking spaces.
I will still get it but I was bummed... when i first placed my order, 0-60 was 3.5 sec and now it's 6.0! That's not the same vehicle.
Tailosive, thank you for touching on the EMR4 vs EMR3 ... I saw some comments on the Transportation Evolved channel that had "cold weather" people screaming about balance between the front and rear wheel with where the battery is for traction. Do you think that is an issue? Also, do you think Aptera will ever become better communicators for people who have been waiting for years for an Aptera? Waiting once a month to hear from them seems to be creating a lot of very vocal doubts.
If an accident happens the first thing that will happen is that the contactors will disconnect the battery. There would be no high voltage at the wheel.
Yeah! With sensors as reliable as those for air bags, and no-weight contactors.
150kw is almost double the power of my current small fwd Toyota. With better aerodynamics and less weight it's going to be a lot of fun to drive. I'm thinking the top speed will be up to 110mph again or maybe even higher.
0 to 60 , 6sec
Unless you have experience driving in snow (live in Wyoming), you may want to reserve commenting about it. I don't think we can assume how the two-wheel drive system will work in snow, or the effects of being light weight, or snow packing in the wheel wells. This all needs real world testing before we can say.
I’ve only driven in snow with FWD vehicles. And I never crashed
I commute with an Arcimoto FUV, another electric tadpole with 70% of the weight up front.
Sixteen thousand miles in two years shows me how AWD on a three wheeler is superfluous.
I'm holding out for an AWD version with an offroad package. I live in rural southwest Colorado, so I'll also need to see how it handles mountain passes and unpaved snowy roads. For sure snow tires will be needed.
I just wanted all wheel drive for Snow & Ice traction and independent wheel traction control.
The Lotus Elise is 2000lbs with 189hp and went 0-60 around 5-6 seconds, so the new front only motor Aptera at 2k-lbs I'd expect it to go just a little faster if it's 200hp if the front wheel drive can keep the grip up with decent tires.
There are so many innovative (and somewhat untried) ideas in this vehicle that anything they can do to reduce uncertainty is welcome and the more they can make use of proven components, the more likely production will go smoothly.
front wheel drive is good; good winter drive tires will be important.
Something to think about: The Aptera 2e prototype of over 10 years ago with a similar front wheel drive setup had a 0 to 60 time of less than 10 seconds. The new one with twice the horsepower and better torque figures should, on paper, get to 0 to 60 in significantly less than 5 seconds.
I believe so, they said they’ll test it soon. Wouldn’t be shocked if it’s under 5 seconds
I can't see how this will have any practical effect since the Aptera will never actually be released.
Great video. Yes, I believe they made the right decision. My one concern is how efficient the air conditioning system is going to be. Living in Vegas it's going to be a huge priority for me. Not that it will dissuade me from buying one. I have already decided to have a solar charger hooked up so I can be charging while it is my garage.
They went into detail about their HVAC system on their instagram instagram.com/p/C8XOw06N6TY/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
I think the HVAC will be mostly within the cabinspace and not be competing with the under-hood space where the EMR3 motor/drivetrain will reside.
I wanted the all wheel drive....so I am changing my order and will be willing to wait.
The hub motors were always a concern for me. I think this is a good turn of events
I just hope the range won't be compromised, it would be awesome if the range would actually be increased with this new motor.
I think the new motor has more power than what is safe for such a small car. I think motorcycle/ Tesla like performance will lead to excessive high-speed crashes/ deaths. Thereby damaging the brand/design's safety reputation.
I feel like the main draw for this vehicle should be efficiency, reliability, safety, and not requiring charging infrastructure at home and destination, having a great range when plugging into 120V 15A circuit overnight.
Please do not focus on crazy speed and handling. It would be best if the street mode was governed to 95MPH and did not have acceleration beyond that of a Civic S.
Know your customer. Are you going for the Kia crowd or the Suzuki crowd? Kia is selling a lot more vehicles than Suzuki and hopefully moving the value mined driver away from low economy vehicles like the F150 and large SUVs when the higher payload capacity is unneeded.
The Aptera is the first electric car I have seriously considered buying because of the traits I indicated above. When energy prices double, the working class in America will need cars like this to offset the rising costs of living. This car could cut U.S. commuting costs for individual / pair traveling more than half, reduce required rode maintenance cost, reduce pollution in city centers, reduce petroleum use, and increase physical resource availability for "making America great again," "the green revolution," and like phrases.
I see that the price has been reduced on my reservation. I'll not sure if it will stay that low, but it is a difference maker. The EMR3 seem like a good drive unit and if the price stays on the $30K side if things I am good with it.
I noticed the LE configuration page now indicates FWD. I’m guessing the pricing model has not changed, but the price is reduced, according to the pricing model, for FWD.
Site price isn’t accurate. They mentioned that in the email
@@TailosiveEV did they mention the price ?
I am becoming more and more enamored with the decision to use this tried and true motor in the Aptera rather than the in-wheel motors. Makes sense for the back wheel to be of this design. My original order was for the front wheel only version. Seems like they’ve planned this powertrain as an option, should the in-wheel motors not cut the mustard. It simplifies maters a bit too putting all the power generation right there in the front just like every Tom, Dick and Harry’s electric vehicle. I look forward to the PI builds for seeing how it works in practice.
Thanks for the interesting content. Looking forward to your critique of the PI 2.
Aptera has always been about efficiency first in everything that they have said and done…. Not going this route really would have been a betrayal of their own goals. It’s hard to admit that your original idea was inferior in multiple ways and for making the change they deserve praise not backlash. This configuration will allow easier changes in the future so far as different optional power levels for different models. One of the many limitations of hub motors is limits on power levels before breaking parts. Only way to add enough strength to the mountings are building heavy and/or with expensive materials.
The whole point of hub motors is efficiency, which is why they were chosen for the Aptera. I need a car with all wheel drive, so sadly I've cancelled my reservation.
I want my Aptera with 3 motors. It's a PLAD APTERA 🤩
If the Aptera chose the 230kw EMR4 motor, it would have the power to weight ratio of the Tesla Plaid. As is, the EMR3 150kw (201 HP) motor pushing the 2,100 lb Aptera with forward weight bias will be no slouch!
@@a5-30-31cts EMR4 has different power configurations. The middle one is around 160 kw. The big reason for the EMR4 would be to allow the motors to shut off and cruise at highway speed more efficiently. As aptera scales I would expect them to switch.
Hey man I love your videos I’ve watched you for years. I am noticing in your videos you aren’t letting any pauses anywhere and I think it has to do with your editing. The audience needs pauses and not a complete run on sentence. Please take the feedback. I just sounds at times like there aren’t any pauses. I am not sure if this is new but I’m noticing it more and more in your videos. I hope this isn’t negative, it would improve our experience.
Can't wait to read government required testing results! You know: crash, off road, bad weather and distance driving. Crash testing will be of interest to insurance companies so they can determine monthly insurance premiums $. It would be also helpful if company executives could tell us their plans for supplying repair stuff including body parts? Or are they going to be like Tesla where you have to be serviced by only Tesla?
The Aptera vehicle configuration I reserved will likely be available in 2028 (if ever).
That said, I look forward to regular updates/news regarding Aptera vehicle design, production, real world tests, and owners' experiences.
So she lives in Washington state close to Vancouver. Which has moderate winters but go an hour or so towards in the valley and you need AWD
Vitesco EMR4 vs EMR3:
- Weighs 25 percent less at the same power level. 66 vs 77 kg.
- 5.6% efficiency advantage in the WLTP.
- Smaller.
So the big question (to ask) is WHY the EMR3!?
Has Hyundai bought up all the EMR4s for the next 5 years or something?
Your mom's car has front wheel drive, snow tires and 4 wheels.
Aptera has 3 wheels. So the AWD system would help balance things out a little.
But you are right snow tires make a big difference. And when stopping anti lock breaks and the tires matter. AWD doesn't help stop the car.
Hopefully, they will do extensive testing this winter with the PI models.
Outdoor winter weather testing facilities do exist. They should have enough PI models built to test this winter. So the timing for that is good.
I'm also still waiting for the crash test data.
If all the testing comes back with excellent results. Then I will buy the LE edition. If not I will wait.
My other concern is pricing. I know the final price isn't out yet but I am concerned the vehicle will be too expensive for someone like me.
When you lose grip on the rear wheel of a 3-wheeler yyou have a REAL problem! It's by far the greates safety concern with 3-wheelers. Pure physics. That said, a powered rear wheel is just added complexity for keeping the AWD 3-wheeler as safe as the equivalent FWD.
@@charangohabsburg1 with rear wheel regen one can improve braking on ice snow and water my main reason for wanting three wheel drive
Agree with everything you said Drew!
Love the new layout. But, willing to wait for the AWD version with the hub rear motor!
Glad. Less worry about motor damage when driving through the crappy MidWest streets
Just a shame that hub motors aren't taking off properly yet.
Indeed so, and hub motors on an EVs go back to the 1906 era of EVs. They in turn, got the hub motors from the electric trolleys of the era.
This change will have a non-trivial impact on the weight distribution of the vehicle.
I don't think there will be any sacrifice on inside room, I believe there is enough room up front.
I want to know what kind of traction control and torque vectoring does this drive train have. Having regenerated braking on the rear wheel had some real advantages that may be lost
@@stix2you you don’t get what I am saying on ice braking with the rear is safer than the front like down shifting with a rear wheel vehicle the rear wheel regen could of made this possible. The pendulum effect.
This has more advantages than disadvantages
Have they also made the front axle / hubs width narrower? A width of 223 cm is impossible for curb side street parking in EU.
You're pretty much wrong about fwd vs awd on ice and snow. But i guess ill be stuck driving my Aptera for four or five months out of the year if i still want one. 😕
Have you ever driven a three wheel vehicle in ice and snow they even get dicey in rain.
Thanks for your sharing. I too originally ordered the FW for the same reasons.
Do you really think leg rooms will be shortened as that is dictated by the SMC, which is already set.
I agree, since I have been in all the development vehicles… There has always been lots of legroom, says this nearly six foot dude😉
Until Friday’s podcast update !
I had a 2007 Hyundai Azera. Badass. Best factory sound system I've ever had in a car.
Only reason I didn't order the launch edition is because I don't care about AWD and did not wish to pay for it.
This change hopefully allow them to keep the price close to the origional pricing, however the fun to drive factor of the Gamma will be gone despite the higher power because it will need to be controled. Without a motor for each front wheel the tork vectoring and electronic traction control there will be problems in slipery conditions unless the is traction control with ABS with traction control. that reduce speed and efficency.
Nearly every car on the road doesn’t have hub motors. I’m sure there’s a way to make it handle well
@@TailosiveEV Yes, like is done in the Fiat 500e they severly limit the initial tork leaving it with about an 8 sec 0 to 60, pluss they have Antilock brakes with traction control, so it dosent have the problems.
I was starting to believe teleportation was going to be available before the Aptera...