Stride Rate (Cadence) VS Stride Length (Power) as Running Speed Changes? Coach Sage Canaday TTT EP40
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2022
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Thanks so much for answering my question. So much good detail and lots of good things to think about!
That was a great question!
Thanks for asking the question: as a tall, newish runner this has been something I've been struggling with and I haven't found a good answer elsewhere, so it's great to see it answered here.
Great question. I’ve been feeling these exact same problems when trying to run slow and easy. Always feels awkward, clunky and too much bounce, so this helps.
Great advice Sage!! I totally agree. As a PT I do running gait analysis and that is what I see with a lot of people that have injuries with running is low cadence and over striding. There can be other variables and those are big ones. I’ve also changed my gait over the years and I’m able to run more efficiently with minimal to no injuries. Thank you for sharing as always!!
Excellent talk, thanks Sage. 👍
Answered the question I logged on to solve. Thanks!
thanks! stuff to think about for easy day!
Just wanted to let you know, I brought my first pair of Hoka's yesterday just to support your brand. Keep you posted on how I like them:)
One thing I have noticed is the difference shoes make to cadence and stride length. I generally run around 180 in my 1080s and Rincons but that drops to 170 in the Novablasts for the same pace due to the extra bounce which slightly increases the stride length. Both feel comfortable but I notice it when I look at the run data.
Hey Sage! Great advice!
I've got a question that's been haunting my training plans for quite some time. I get to train 4-6 times a week (incl. strength sessions), but I'm extremely limited in session length due to my family and work situation. Except for weekends I've only got about 35-40 minutes and 90 minutes per session on Saturday and Sunday. I'm mostly not even thinking about building mileage, because I can just go out and run my max mileage (45-50k) without too many issues. Do you think I should play with intensity instead of volume to prepare for trail marathons or even ultras? Or in other words: Do you think you can compensate lack of mileage with higher intensity?
Thanks so much for all the advice and passion you put in this channel!
Hi Sage!
I have some questions regarding preparing for downhill sections in a road marathon. I ran my first marathon in Stockholm in October of last year and missed my target of a sub 3 with about 2 minutes. I believe at least part of the reason why is me letting loose a bit too much on the downhills. My quads were super sore for the next 5 days or so but since this was my first race I don't know what's to be expected.
I'm running the same race again in June and would like to be more prepared this time. Is it necessary in your opinion to do some faster downhill running in training and if so how much? Is it fine to substitute downhills for strength exercises instead to minimize the risk for injury? Or do I simply need to hold back a little bit more during the race?
Thanks for all the advice and inspiration through the years!
I just make sure my playlist is on the right bpm, but I come from a marching band background.
thank you so much for this. when I first learned that having better cadence would be better for the increased efficiency I tried to reach a > 170 cadence even when I'm doing just slow easy runs. I run fairly slowly at about 8 mins per KM on my easy runs and so trying to reach at least an average of 170 steps on that speed is fairly difficult since to be that slow I take shorter strides too. it feels so cumbersome and uncomfortable compared to when I do an average of 165 in that speed. I guess my best takeaway from this is that yes having better cadence is more efficient but I should match that cadence to my stride length as well to achieve the optimum form instead of prioritizing cadence then adjusting my stride length just to achieve that magical > 175 cadence average at all costs.
Hey sage I just finished your half marathon program. How should we proceed do we repeat the whole program right away if we want to improve our time? Or we can start at a certain week?
Too funny , I was JUST thinking about this today during some fartlek efforts. I am a 180 avg cadence runner, and it does go upwards to 195-200 when I do varied speed work, tempo intervals etc.
I thought to myself, well, should I be working on strength to increase the stride length so my cadence comes back down while at the same pace?
( also didnt see the link you mentioned to the other vid) Thanks!
For what I've experienced, slower running causes a change in how your foot strikes the ground (more heal) and also causes a longer contact with the ground. Both produce more stress on the body.
Thank you for great training tip! I totally having this issue of getting into the 200-220 cadence at my peaked out pace, say close to 4:45-5:15 peak sustained pace. I thought it was hamstrings and calves not being flexible and enough to get out from that 1.05 meter stride to try and get to that 1.25-1.5 meter stride. I think now from this talk it might just be mental, such as fear from over striding, but I think I understand what I need to work on to get to that increased stride length at faster pace. Thanks 🙏
What did you start doing
@@LaCajunWash Well so you either are a cadence runner or a stride runner. As you increase pace you either keep cadence same and increase stride length, or you keep stride length the same and increase cadence. I am finding a happy balance of around 190-200 cadence with 1.5-1.75m stride length from 180 cadence and 1.0m stride length. I am working on being more efficient. The faster paces take more strength and increased heart rate. So working on it with intervals vo2x and speedwork 60-100m.
Sage, this is where I struggle I have a high cadence. 188 to 200 BPM. I can run about a 7:30 MPH. I run on a treadmill from 5 MPH to 8 MPH for about a hour to 2 1/2 hours. I still have the same cadence a run like a little rabbit. I don’t know how to open up my stride. I am a mid foot to slight heel striker.. and run in a low profile shoe topo and altras. Any words of wisdom and how to open up my stride? Thank you love your videos happy trails cheers stay strong stay safe. And say hi to Sandy!❤️🙏😎👟👟🏃🏼♂️🇺🇸
Tell me if I'm on the wrong track here, but when it comes to easy runs, I just jog as slow as I can with 'normal' form and if that takes my heart rate too high or the pace too quick, I take a 30 s walk break. This way I get the aerobic benefit of some gentle, easy distance while maintaining normal, smooth form. My goal is to run races faster and I'm comfortable with my form at faster-than-easy paces, so I don't see the benefit of adapting my form to slow paces when I can keep the intensity down with a brief walk break.
So I broke out for a 80yard run using fast cadence and this linebacker caught up from behind using like a power stride within maybe 60 yards, I feel like when I increase my stride midrun I'm running the same speed. Thoughts anyone??
You've talked in the past about the danger of 'burning out' from doing too much speed work; is that concern as pertinent for someone mostly concerned with sprinting speed (i.e. athlete in Ultimate, soccer, or football)?
How is speed is product of stride length and stride frequency
Does stride cadence normally change as a runner gets older? Not having measured it when I was younger due to lack of technology, I find now that I am I have an average cadence of 185 as a 69 year old. However, my stride length is just short of one meter on average. How does that compare with younger runners and is short of a meter length unnaturally short?
the more important question is, what brand of running short have you got there at 4:43
Hi Sage, good video. A question for the next TTT. What are your views on doing two long runs per week in marathon build-up? I’m adopting this approach for my current marathon build-up, but I’m having to sacrifice some of the track work and tempo work that I would usually do. I’m interested to know what has the most benefit in marathon training - more quality work/speed or more endurance? (By way of background, I’m a relatively low mileage runner and will top out at around 75 miles per week in the marathon training).
@crayontom9687, what have you found to be the answer to your question? I am in the same boat as you and curious as to the best approach.
Thanks, John.
@@alaskahudson I’ve had the same results using both methods. I’ve run 5 marathons all between 2:38 and 2:46, but now I’m older I generally having to sacrifice the track work / speed work because of injury risk. More focus on tempo and less focus on 5k track work etc
So you will be at your fastest if your stride and cadence reaches a certain number..if it's lower your overstriding, if it higher you need to open your stride????
With 1.9m height and longe legs, in easy pace my stride length is around 1m with 165-170spm, is It too short? Sometimes feel like It.
Hi sage my cadence is around 190 should I try and get it up if so how thanks and anyone else any thoughts thanks
For sure, cadence changes the least while stride length can increase to a point for most good runners to achieve a good competitive pace. This keeps away from heel striking and possible injury. But cadence increase has a maximum efficiency at around 180 for most good runners. I have found over the years that working to increase cadence takes a lot of training and doesn't come naturally. I am an average runner, and I have trouble getting my pace up to where a 180 smp cadence would feel right. My normal cadence is around 165 smp or so. For a potential good runner 180 spm should be a goal which would be most efficient for faster pace runners. But for us average slower pace runners maybe 165 is good enough. 180 spm is not right for everyone.
I hope this is not a really silly comment. Which should come first fixing stride length or cadence
I recently picked up running, basically just for fun, no desire to break records.... but didnt take long for my analytical brain to take over.. didnt even know about cadence and stride, but checked my last run stats to find that my stride is 1.09 meters and cadence is 156... seems i need to pick up my cadence alot.. im 1.84m tall, so seems like im dragging my feet more than running 😅
I'm currently having 160(±2) cadence..but now I'm trying 170.. but it is feeling a lot of energy.. I'm a 5km runner..so should i do around 180 or 160 or 170?? (My 5k time- 17:30min)
One of the best things i've learnt is cadence. Easy runs ill turn 178/182 but my race pace will climb to 185/190 pending the distance. I'll check my stride length data and ill go from 1.05m on easy days to 1.5m on race day
Stride length is speed divided bij cadence, so why bother the calculation?
@@Bard2008 I maintain a close cadence at any speed vs slowing down cadence and keeping the same stride length as u can over stride and heel strike.
i've found that my cadence is 168-172 at 8:00 minutes per mile and 6:00 minutes per mile. not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing
Nicely explained. Initially, I doubted the 180 cadence (exclusively) was optimal until I did the math and applied it in practice. However, this doesn't mean I will always run at 180 spm. A lot of times my spm changes because my fitness level forces me to a lower cadence or the course forces me to shift away from an optimal 180 cadence (...like slopes so steep no human has enough power to run at any efficient 180 cadence). But, I don't intentially drift from 180 spm for any reason other than to appease my perception of using less effort at lower cadences. If my memory is correct, the idea of "perception" of effort is founded in what is called "springingness" (or bounce). Veritical oscillation is a key aspect of efficiency. And, 180 spm will minimize an inefficient bounce IF you have the fitness level of maintaining forward momentum rather than converting it to bounce or a shuffle (i.e., low power resulting in less forward momentum).
In a nutshell, physics says that 180 spm (only) is the optimal efficience cadence... anything different from 180 spm, regardless of body size/heigth, running course/environment or speed, is less efficient. Plus, the bigger the difference, the bigger the inefficiency. Unfortunately, the reason why people can not maintain 180 is mostly because of lack of fitness (relative to environment/ course/ slope) and/or form issues. To go faster you "push-off" more but you should not change cadence. The stride length changes as a result of more power being applied to propel your body forward. And, at 180 spm the maximum forward momentum for the power generated (even if low) is the most efficient way to run.
Very helpful topic. I now have a much better understanding of cadence. I have one question. I'm 6'3" and have been told taller people will have a lower cadence. Is this true? And if so how much slower? Thanks.
Same height although I don’t know about leg length. My cadence generally is lower. Usually low 160s on trail. I’m injury prone. I’ve been trying to increase my cadence although I feel like it’s a harder thing to achieve being taller. Focus on stride length vs effort. Also drills like getting 180 spm in place helps a lot.
@@xXAnthony619Xx thanks
I'm two meters tall, but my cadence is around 180 and drops a little when getting tired.
generally yes, (slightly) but it is also more a factor of the ratio of your leg length compared to your torso length.
I think people saying running speed = stride length x cadence is oversimplifying the situation because stride length also depends on the initial momentum. The same stride will result in a longer stride length in high speed than in low speed. To me (as an slow but improving runner), the key to my improvement is to stop overstriding to minimize the breaking force and keep good running fluidity.
I see what you're saying, but it really is as simple a Running Speed = stride length x Cadence. The momentum component really only translates to push-off force (so marginal power increases for increases in stride length). But yes, a big key is to minimize overstriding (breaking force) to reduce injury risk and increase efficiency (Running Economy)...and higher cadence usually helps with that
I'm averaging 220 cadences up to 250 if I make an extra effort like tempos. Is this normal? I tried researching about it the higher cadence the better cause you're less injury prone. But, I'm also a firm believer that too much of everything is bad. I also tried training with a metronome tried hitting 190-200 to lessen it, but I was having a hard time and I ran slower. I'm using Garmin Forerunner 255. Any information about this would be truly helpful.
Holy crap, over 200? I cant imagine running like that, im on thenother side of the spectrum, my cadence is 156... i need to get up alot.
@@Blackhawk182182 hello. Sorry about this. This is a misinformation. At this time there was something wrong with my watch. Lol so i was seeking answers all over the place. My cadence is around 170-190 depending on what type of run i do. Hope this clears things. Sorry about the misinformation, i don't want you to start overthinking that you need that much cadence to reach a certain type of speed or pace.
👍👍
Is it bad that my cadence is super low, like around 155 steps per minute. For some background i'm pretty tall, 6,2 and have really long legs. I don't feel as if its hindering me just something i thought about while watching?
You should up your cadence, even when you’re tall, I’m 6,3 and run with a cadence of 170
You’ll be more efficient
Noticed today on my slow run that i sit in the saddle, yet at tempo and race pace i run like a african.
In cycling people with the higher lactate treshold generally have higher RPM. Because the torque would be really high with a low RPM. Imagine it would be the same with running. People who run a marathon really fast would have to use a high cadence otherwise the stride length would be ridiculous.
well yes people who run the marathon really fast have a really high lactate threshold usually. It does come down to some individual differences with Slow to fast twitch muscle fiber ratios (i.e. some cyclists like to stand up and mash bigger gears on the climbs while others sit and spin fast)....same with running: some elites have longer strides and more power, while others are striding at 190+ steps/min.
So let's say I'm explosive but no power cause I don't really squat, kind fast twitch I guess, would a long stride help me in the 40 yard dash ? Or 100 meter