I respect and appreciate anyone who takes the time to share their knowledge and create a video for others. I was excited for the first quarter of the video. Everything was super detailed and even went into the weeds of "how" it works, not just fixing a problem. The only thing I'm disappointed about is the lack of troubleshooting to get to the fix point. Mine "hums" and I'm getting 9.5-10.2V at the clamps. The Ammeter isn't doing anything, even on a known good battery. I'll open mine up and see if its similar. Mines a Solar 330 40/2A Charger-200A engine starter, built in 1998. Good luck searching "Solar battery charger" in 2024! Great video, subbed.
Thanks! With an old style charger like this troubleshooting is pretty easy, not many parts to diagnose. If it's "working" but low voltage, the most likely cause is a failed diode/regulator. The humming is probably caused by some magnetic induced vibration in the transformer laminate metal form and is harmless. Some folks have tried carefully painting the metal transformer laminate with superglue to dampen the buzzing if it's too annoying. Maybe the transformer mounts to the chassis have simply become loose over time. The amp meter is unlikely to display much on a charged battery that isn't pulling a big charge current draw. A good but deeply discharged battery would draw more current (amps) and more likely deflect the meter. But if you have bad diode(s), they may not be allowing a lot of current to flow, thus no meter readings. I'd bet your unit is very similar to mine. Best wishes.
@@Barry-Watson Thanks. I just ordered the rectifier you recommended. I'm actually doing what Garage 54 did, reverse charging a dead battery. Ive done the slow long initial charge, but now its time to bump the amps for a complete charge. I started with a 2A slow charge, then went 10A. Both for about six days each. Any recommendations? Thanks. ruclips.net/video/gnZvTQ-qZbQ/видео.htmlsi=zwD2jOK1FCgF8nA8
Typically neglected batteries that are allowed to sit discharged fail due to a chemical buildup of hard sulfates that cover the internal plates and form an insulator preventing the battery from delivering current. If allowed to sit and harden long enough this coating can be very difficult, if not impossible, to remove. My recovery rate is about 50%. I have not seen much long term success by adding anything to the battery liquid. The things that have seen work are hitting the battery with very high energy pulses, such as from an arc welder. I do NOT recommend this, since it can be very dangerous, the battery could explode. The other thing that I have seen work successfully is the use of a pulse charger, which hits the battery with (controlled) high energy pulses of the correct frequency to try to wake up the battery chemistry and dissolve that sulfated layer. I did a review of an inexpensive battery charger that includes pulse repair mode, that has successfully recovered a couple of my batteries after a couple days of pulse-repair mode. Surprisingly, a big battery I have that sit in an abandoned vehicle for five years that was stone dead (0 volts), came back completely to life, and measures nearly 600 cold cranking amps now after the pulse repair. But some batteries are just too far gone, and cannot be recovered. Of course other types of failures are possible, such as broken internal connections, but typically the problem is sulfation. ruclips.net/video/E4FJxRXNeQ4/видео.html
Why would you not use the positive output side of the module with a wire for the red battery + side with the negative - side output wire ? Or am I not understanding this output side of the module ?
If you review the portion of the video where I explain the circuit operation of this particular charger you'll see that it uses two large diodes to convert AC to DC. It's a half wave rectifier design. My goal was to repair the unit, not redesign it, so I needed two large replacement diodes. My most convenient and cost effective option was to use a full wave bridge rectifier diode module. That's a block of plastic that contains four diodes within it. I only need to use two of those four diodes in that module, and how the wiring works out that means that I just used the AC terminals in the module, and one of the outputs. The way this charger was wired, we just use the negative side of the module - Which makes use of (only) two of the four internal diodes in that module block. There's nothing special about the negative versus the positive side of the output. The charger could have been designed to work either way (you're just rectifying one side of the output, doesn't really matter which one). Of course I wanted the red cable to still be positive so I respected the polarity of the original design by attaching the rectifier output to the negative cable, as it was originally. Of course, your mileage may vary, different battery charges may be wired differently. This one is a very typical, common, simple battery charger design.
@@Barry-Watson Ok, I've got it now. You're right, somewhere I missed the part about the positive side being ok. I will look at it. Diodes and rectifiers wiring configurations options confuse me to some extent and it's moreso the button types in alternators that are placed on rectifier plates that use the plate as one side made hot by the button diodes on one side....like the old kind I guess you removed in this charger ? I'm pretty good with just regular electrical AC, it's the electronics side I haven't studied much. My Dad was good with both. I wish he'd lived long enough to coach me after my interest had peaked. He built a home battery charger in his shop, made cabinet too on metal brake, the rectifier diode plate ...one of the diodes is bad at least. He wired it on a switch for a high side only and another side for low, going through a rheostat and then an amp meter where you adjust the amps going into the battery. It's protected by a 20 amp breaker as well he went through. I want to get it back up and running. I'm looking at one of these rectifier modules to just replace the rectifier plate in it. The max output he figured in this charger was 50 amps and he used diodes from an automotive alternator for the rectifier plate. I would just change the diodes in the plate he made and put it back ?? I get a little confused on the wiring of these types of diodes. I know they have different polarities. The module you used just seems simpler to use. Thank you for your video. It's been most helpful. I will review the part I missed.
What I am wondering why Barry did not use the aluminum heatsinks that were already in the box to connect the bridge rectifier ??? The twist terminals from the transformer should always be taken off and cleaned MINIMUM. THEY always have corrosion which affects the power and performance of all units. JUST saying as I have repaired hundreds of these type of units. I will stand by my experience with successful repairs and many happy customers. Have yourself a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year Barry. Peace vf
Thanks for the tip! So far at the unit that I repaired has been working well. The old Selenium rectifiers were simply riveted to the sides of the box cover as a heat sink. The new silicon rectifier is a lot more efficient, so I don't think it puts out as much heat as the old ones, and likewise I just used the enclosure and a dab of heat conductive paste to dissipate any heat. In my use, it never gets very warm.
@@Barry-Watson Point well made and taken Barry. The new rectifier is way more efficient and cooler running. Have yourself a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Peace vf
@@Barry-WatsonI like your logic Barry. The new rectifier is way more efficient and well priced. I have learned that using aluminum as a heat sink really make electronic components perform best. Peace vf 😀😀😀
A grand video about battery chargers, thank you Sir. Been watching how to bring dead. lead acid cell batteries back to life too. So great to simply watch a video how to pro.
I have a newer manual charger that I use to start stubborn diesels when cold (real with bad glo-plugs). My question is: is there a way to build a regulator so that on the higher amperage settings, I don't get enough voltage to kill my batteries.
Unfortunately it's not that simple, the vehicle presents a certain load, and into that load if you reduce the voltage you'll also reduce the current. This is ohms law. There may be good reasons to limit the voltage, but that will also limit the amount of current that a particular load will draw.
The battery charger could easily be designed to work either way. On my unit the output cable was attached to the negative side of the rectifier, yours may differ. Just check the output leads of the charger with a meter to make sure that you're getting + on the red wire to be sure you're on the correct rectifier output for your charger. If the output is reversed, just move to the other rectifier output terminal.
Berry I have a snap on/bluepoint/ Schumacher. I'm almost sure it's just the control board failed. I can't find parts for it and I would like to keep it somehow. Any universal controller or a bypass to run off the transformer?
Sorry, I don't know that unit. I'd start by reaching out to the manufacturer(s) to see if they can provide a replacement board, and if not at least a schematic. Having a schematic makes troubleshooting and repair a whole lot easier. If it's a big valuable transformer, you could consider building a new charger around it... you can find plenty of circuit designs in you search the web. Some of the old charger designs (like the one in this video) are pretty simple. But... is that worth the effort and your time, only you can decide.
Hey Mr. Car Battery Charger Repair guy . I have a 80 / 70 /325 amp charger by ASSOCIATED EQUIPTMENT . It only puts out about 9 volts on the high setting I can hear the transformer humming . I see 2 rectifier plates each with a circular adhesive s labels , but NO DIODS . UNLESS those CIRCULAR labels ARE the diodes ? It looks like it might be from the 1970's . I did replace the voltage selector switch and cleaned all the contacts, and removed some rust on the transformer . Do you have any suggestions.
Yes, I would suspect those circular plates are your rectifiers, and one of them has failed. That was the situation with my unit. So I disconnected those old rectifiers from the circuit and replaced them with the more modern silicon bridge rectifier module that I used in the video. Best wishes.
Thank you . I subscribed to your channel because I really liked the calm slow , easy to follow way you have of explaining things for the beginner . This video really caught my attention because it is the only 1 that has rectifier plates somewhat similar to my charger. I guess because they are much older ? My main reason for trying to fix it & get it going , is that it belonged to my dad. He passed away 2 years ago & these old chargers are just nicer than the new digitals now in the market . I Looked closer at the rectifier plates & one does seem to have bubbled & lifted somewhat . Do you know what is underneath those circular labels on those plates ?
Thank you!! Selenium rectifiers (Used widely from the 1930s to the 1970s) are not repairable because they degrade over time, particularly due to heat, and once the selenium plates break down, they cannot be restored. When a selenium rectifier fails, it loses its ability to convert AC to DC effectively. Replacing old selenium rectifiers with modern silicon diodes or a bridge rectifier module offers significant advantages. Silicon diodes are far more efficient, with a lower forward voltage drop, meaning they waste less energy and generate less heat. They are also much smaller, more reliable, and have a longer lifespan. In addition, modern bridge rectifier modules are easy to install and provide better performance with higher current handling capacity, making them a superior solution for maintaining or upgrading old equipment.
You simply need two silicon diodes that are rated to handle enough current for your battery charger. Alternatively you can use a bridge rectifier module, which is simply one block that contains multiple diodes. In the description underneath this video, I have a link to a bridge rectifier module that handles a lot of current, and I think would be a suitable unit for high powered battery chargers. Even if they are still available, I would not replace the old selenium rectifiers, since they're not as efficient as modern parts. Remember to use a little bit of heat sink thermal compound when mounting the diode block to the chassis so it can dissipate heat easily when charging with high currents. This is an easy repair, good luck.
Hey thanks for the Video. It' great when knowledgeable people share their skills. I have an old Schumacher that has saved me many times over the years. It's 2A, 40A and 200A boost. I thought the 200A was underperforming by the sound. My readings were (on a low battery) (setting, voltage at battery, Amps through positive cable) 2A, 12.3V, 1.5A, : 40A, 16.5V, 6.5A and for 200A boost, 19V, 15A. Do you think the 200A is underperforming? It's when it's 30F outside and the truck won't start that is the best test but that's when I'll need the boost. Thanks!
Your measurements seem reasonable to me. The transformers often hum a little, all that energy shakes the transformer windings a little bit. Remember that with a constant voltage source, the amps delivered will vary according to the load (the battery charge state). So, even if the charger is capable of 200A, it will only deliver as many amps as the battery demands for a given charge voltage. So, I suspect it's working properly. Looking at the internal wiring of my unit, I doubt it can actually deliver a full 200 amps for any period of time, however, it's a really strong and effective charger nevertheless.
Good job! I wish someone would make a video on changing a smart charger into a manual one. There is one video of a guy doing that to get rid of rust using, I can't think of the word. There are several videos of fooling smart chargers with little batteries. The ideal video, for me, would be one where the guy eliminates the smart board from 3 or 4 different types of smart chargers and installs a 1 hour or 90 minute timer on each. I have a pile of smart chargers and they all a little different, The big one has a timer which is where I got the timer idea. I need a new one and find many on ebay. Some from dryers with a motor on it and some with a bell. Some are from electric ovens and simply "appliances". I'd like one that is mechanical with only 2 wires. As you ca tell, I could write 20 pages asking questions and making comments. I just want to mention one quick one. Those yellow wire connectors that crimp on the wire fail too often. I just strip the wire and loop it around the bolt. Its ugly and unprofessional looking BUT when compared to one that pulled out it works a million times better. On paper, it should be the last resort but in reality it makes the best contact and most reliable. I think instead of soldering the connector, soldering the end of the copper wire back onto itself making a loop has the best result even though ugly and unprofessional. Just my opinion. I just subscribed.
If you're looking for a simple inexpensive power supply, the first thing that comes to mind is a device like I've linked below. These switching power supply modules are pretty capable, and are inexpensive. If you're charging batteries a concern I may have is can you adjust it to get the exact voltage you want, this one is limited to a little under 14 volts maximum output. amzn.to/428svjJ
@@Barry-Watson Thank you for the reply. I have several non-working battery chargers. I actually got one as a wedding present 40 years ago and it works fine and is my primary one. If I can fix all of the broken ones I will keep one for spare and give the other 3 away to anyone who needs it. The one is expensive and brand new. It was given to me because it wouldn't charge a completely dead battery. I don't think there is anything wrong with it. I just want to make it manual and would like to buy a few timers. Thanks again and I'll go now to check out your link
Battery chargers take single diodes you can double them up triple them up for more amperage but a bridge rectification ain't going to do s***you're wasting your money all these assholes on RUclips 40 years from now no amps l you have volts but you will have no amperage just the way it works
Thanks for the comment. A bridge rectifier is simply four diodes wired in a certain configuration. You could use individual diodes, or a "module" that contains 4 diodes in one package. Electrically it's the same. I think today's modern diodes are probably more reliable than the old ones. In my unit, I could have replaced the two old rectifiers with two new diodes, but the bridge rectifier module seemed to me like a easier solution, and it was cheaper. I didn't use all the terminals on the rectifier module - I only used two of the diodes in the bridge rectifier, preserving the original charger design. The new silicon diodes in the bridge rectifier module are rated for more current than the original ones used in the charger, so it should be able to deliver as much or more power than it did originally.
Hay quick question can I delete all the smart crap on my new Battery charger??? I'd love to cut it all out and throw it all away. Id appreciate and details on that question, Thanks.
The microprocessor controlled smart chargers and the old fashioned linear power supply chargers are significantly different designs so I question the practicality of trying to convert one to another. The only real common issue that I see with modern chargers is that they won't try to charge the battery if the voltage is too low. Best wishes!
@Barry-Watson Thanks for the quick response. Well then I guess I'll keep it a smart charger then. I was hoping you'd say do this and do that and it would be done. But it's OK no worries Thanks again.
If you want a manual battery charger, they are available. I might hunt the used market for an old unit, they're usually pretty simple long lasting designs.
Very good and helpful video. However a voltage of 12.7 on the low range is questionable. Lead/acid battery cells are nominally 2.2V so 6 cells would be 13.2 volts. You will see this on a freshly charged battery. However you did not show your setup for measuring that voltage. Certainly you didn't take a DC reading with open leads for it would have been up to 18-19 volts. So I am guessing that hopefully you had it connected to a battery less than fully charged and it should eventually get to 13.2V or a little more. I had not thought about the secondary being center tapped but that makes sense. That way the secondary could be wound for 24v(probably 36v) instead of 12 and it would take half as many turns. I too have doubts about 120V supplied chargers supplying 200A. That would require 20A at 12V but you want more than 12 volts so thus more than 20A would be required. However circuit breakers will take an overload for a while without triiping so maybe the charger really is providing 200A figuring the overload will last less than a minute. Thanks for the video. I am looking for an old style charger so you boost my hopes of finding one that is repairable. I hate the newer smart chargers that have their own idea of what I want. The worst part is the the reversed lead detection that won't charge a completely dead battery. I had to jumper to another battery to get the charge started. Later I took the charger apart and put in a sneak circuit connected to a pushbutton so I could fool the crappy thing into thinking there was voltage present. I really hate that Schumacter has such a large share of the market now as I find their products to be substardard. I had a job offer from them but the pay was way below the going rate. So how are they going to get good engineers offering crappy pay?
Yeah, good point. The output range of that thing was from just under 13 volts, and then upward depending upon the setting. I was concerned it would be too high of voltage with the more efficient modern diodes, but it turned out ok. Since repairing that unit, so far it has worked really well for quickly charging up depleted batteries. Sadly, a lot of the former respected brands of battery chargers are now actually made cheaply offshore by companies like Baccus Global LLC and are not the same quality as the older products.
why is there always this guy trying to spew off at the guy trying to actually help. why dont you go make your own video showing what it should be instead of trolling this one
Hey barry, I was wanting to do this upgrade to my unit as well, to run my charger on 200 amp charge in 15 minute intervals, will this rectifier work for that or would I need a higher amp rectifier like 300 amp for the longer high amp application?
Unless the equipment is very expensive, sadly it's usually much more cost effective to replace than repair. Here is an excellent smart car battery charger that's very inexpensive, under $30. amzn.to/49gwfmc
Hello I have a older Sears battery charger model #934.718460 . Rectifier seems to be defective. Mine has two large negative leads from secondary windings of the transformer. That goes to ,what looks like there are two four diode bridges Should I look at purchasing two bridge rectifiers modules ? Have pictures. Couldn’t see how to add pictures using RUclips app. Thank you in advance.
If you only have two leads coming off of the output of the transformer that go into 4 diode rectifiers, I would assume it's a bridge rectifier configuration. The diode module that I used is a bridge rectifier, so you'll only need one. Connect the transformer output leads to the AC terminals of that bridge rectifier block, and connect the output charging cables to the plus and the minus labeled terminals. And that's it. I think that's all you need to do, measure the output voltage to make sure it's rational. My charger was wired a bit differently, so I only needed to use half of the functionality (diodes) of that bridge rectifier block. I put a link to that part in the video description. Good luck!
@@Barry-Watson Thank you for replying! Mine has 3 leads coming out of the secondary side of transformer. 2 negative and one positive. Is there a way to send a picture?
In that case, your unit is probably wired the same as mine was. The center tapped lead, probably the red wire, goes out to one of the battery clamps, and the other two wires from the transformer go to the rectifiers. So attach those two black wires to the ac side of the new rectifier block, and then just use one of the output terminals (plus or minus) to the other output lead clamp. Use a meter to make sure that your red output lead is positive, if the polarity is reversed then just attach to the other output (+/-) of the rectifier block. So, in this case on the rectifier block you will have two ac wires coming in, one output wire, and one unused terminal. And, again you'll only need a single rectifier block.
I see that you know a great deal about electricity. I wonder if you would consider my problem. I have a 400 ft well with a 3 wire 1 horsepower pump. How it works is the 2 legs of 220 go to a pressure switch. Once activated the 2 wires go to the pump control box which has a start capacitor and sends 3 wires to the pump. The water goes to an expansion tank then upon reaching like 60psi everything shuts off. What if my water freezes? What if a break in the pipes causes water to go everywhere and I am not around? I went to the local business and they have no answer. Proposal: If I had just a pressure sensor that made a signal turn on a relay that powered the control box I could set up a timer that if the pump runs for more than, say 4 minutes, it automatically shuts off. I would love an alarm, too. In fact, I wouldn't mind a blue light at the well that tells me when the pump is on. Since I'm dreaming I would like to know the amps the pump draws while on so in the future i could track differences. It would be nice if all of this were somehow in some log that would tell me the history of the particulars. I know I'm not the only one with this problem yet no one makes a plug in solution to it. You need not spend your time on this, I would feel guilty if you did, but if you like this type of problem solving I (and probably others) would appreciate the help. Thank you
It just occurred to me, If the pump shut off it could send a text to me saying it shut off. Also, I'd like a digital reading of water pressure on my pump house. If you made these and called them "smart well pumps" i think you would see thousands of them.
If you're concerned that the remote pump system might freeze, I think I'd follow a simple approach of insulating a cover over it or a box around it. I'd stick a heat lamp (and maybe heated pipe wrap) in there and use the temperature controller like the one linked below (This is the unit I use on our chicken coop) This digital controller turn on the heat lamp if things get too cold below your setpoint. This will do a good job of maintaining above freezing temperature within the enclosure, and will prevent the system from freezing up. It's a pretty inexpensive solution. amzn.to/47C9eIK
Hey Barry I just left some comments on another video. But I’ve been working for a band for the last year and starting 2-3 months ago I’ve been doing sound more and more. We play 2-4 shows a week from March-Oct, now during the winter it’s slower… I’d like to email you if I could. Do you have one you can send me? Back in aug our sound guy quit last minute and I ended up doing sound and doing so on the fly not knowing anything really. Learning our entire pa at a gig… granted we didn’t start until 5 instead of 3 lmao. Un-muting the PA and mixes was the hardest thing to find lmao. Getting signal, little simple things like that smh But I’d appreciate if I could ask you some questions and run some things by you about combos we use like more then one channel per instrument. What a better combo would be. In your opinion anyway. Thanks, Jesse
Perhaps not all. I've just had really poor luck with them. Too many times the "smart" functions go haywire and don't allow the battery to charge, yet II could use a manual charger and it worked fine. The electronic controls have been unreliable in my experience.@@Barry-Watson
Yeah, I've had similar experience. But I also have a couple 'Battery Tender Plus' smart maintenance chargers I've used for years, and they work well (so far!). amzn.to/47tacab
I suspect you're probably right, it sold as a 200 amp charger, that's what it says on the box. I know it can deliver an awful lot of current, but I'd be surprised if it can really deliver a lot more than 40 amps long term. The silicon rectifier I installed should be good for all of that current and more. Thanks!
I respect and appreciate anyone who takes the time to share their knowledge and create a video for others. I was excited for the first quarter of the video. Everything was super detailed and even went into the weeds of "how" it works, not just fixing a problem. The only thing I'm disappointed about is the lack of troubleshooting to get to the fix point. Mine "hums" and I'm getting 9.5-10.2V at the clamps. The Ammeter isn't doing anything, even on a known good battery. I'll open mine up and see if its similar. Mines a Solar 330 40/2A Charger-200A engine starter, built in 1998. Good luck searching "Solar battery charger" in 2024! Great video, subbed.
Thanks! With an old style charger like this troubleshooting is pretty easy, not many parts to diagnose. If it's "working" but low voltage, the most likely cause is a failed diode/regulator.
The humming is probably caused by some magnetic induced vibration in the transformer laminate metal form and is harmless. Some folks have tried carefully painting the metal transformer laminate with superglue to dampen the buzzing if it's too annoying. Maybe the transformer mounts to the chassis have simply become loose over time.
The amp meter is unlikely to display much on a charged battery that isn't pulling a big charge current draw. A good but deeply discharged battery would draw more current (amps) and more likely deflect the meter. But if you have bad diode(s), they may not be allowing a lot of current to flow, thus no meter readings.
I'd bet your unit is very similar to mine. Best wishes.
@@Barry-Watson Thanks. I just ordered the rectifier you recommended. I'm actually doing what Garage 54 did, reverse charging a dead battery. Ive done the slow long initial charge, but now its time to bump the amps for a complete charge. I started with a 2A slow charge, then went 10A. Both for about six days each. Any recommendations? Thanks.
ruclips.net/video/gnZvTQ-qZbQ/видео.htmlsi=zwD2jOK1FCgF8nA8
Typically neglected batteries that are allowed to sit discharged fail due to a chemical buildup of hard sulfates that cover the internal plates and form an insulator preventing the battery from delivering current. If allowed to sit and harden long enough this coating can be very difficult, if not impossible, to remove. My recovery rate is about 50%.
I have not seen much long term success by adding anything to the battery liquid. The things that have seen work are hitting the battery with very high energy pulses, such as from an arc welder. I do NOT recommend this, since it can be very dangerous, the battery could explode. The other thing that I have seen work successfully is the use of a pulse charger, which hits the battery with (controlled) high energy pulses of the correct frequency to try to wake up the battery chemistry and dissolve that sulfated layer. I did a review of an inexpensive battery charger that includes pulse repair mode, that has successfully recovered a couple of my batteries after a couple days of pulse-repair mode.
Surprisingly, a big battery I have that sit in an abandoned vehicle for five years that was stone dead (0 volts), came back completely to life, and measures nearly 600 cold cranking amps now after the pulse repair. But some batteries are just too far gone, and cannot be recovered.
Of course other types of failures are possible, such as broken internal connections, but typically the problem is sulfation.
ruclips.net/video/E4FJxRXNeQ4/видео.html
Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! I bought the same bridge rectifier and heat sync paste and resurrected a 40+ year old Century 200A boost charger.
Awesome! Glad it lives again. I wonder how many of those old chargers are still in service somewhere.
Mine has been working great since this episode.
Why would you not use the positive output side of the module with a wire for the red battery + side with the negative - side output wire ? Or am I not understanding this output side of the module ?
If you review the portion of the video where I explain the circuit operation of this particular charger you'll see that it uses two large diodes to convert AC to DC. It's a half wave rectifier design. My goal was to repair the unit, not redesign it, so I needed two large replacement diodes.
My most convenient and cost effective option was to use a full wave bridge rectifier diode module. That's a block of plastic that contains four diodes within it. I only need to use two of those four diodes in that module, and how the wiring works out that means that I just used the AC terminals in the module, and one of the outputs. The way this charger was wired, we just use the negative side of the module - Which makes use of (only) two of the four internal diodes in that module block.
There's nothing special about the negative versus the positive side of the output. The charger could have been designed to work either way (you're just rectifying one side of the output, doesn't really matter which one). Of course I wanted the red cable to still be positive so I respected the polarity of the original design by attaching the rectifier output to the negative cable, as it was originally.
Of course, your mileage may vary, different battery charges may be wired differently. This one is a very typical, common, simple battery charger design.
@@Barry-Watson Ok, I've got it now. You're right, somewhere I missed the part about the positive side being ok. I will look at it. Diodes and rectifiers wiring configurations options confuse me to some extent and it's moreso the button types in alternators that are placed on rectifier plates that use the plate as one side made hot by the button diodes on one side....like the old kind I guess you removed in this charger ? I'm pretty good with just regular electrical AC, it's the electronics side I haven't studied much. My Dad was good with both. I wish he'd lived long enough to coach me after my interest had peaked. He built a home battery charger in his shop, made cabinet too on metal brake, the rectifier diode plate ...one of the diodes is bad at least. He wired it on a switch for a high side only and another side for low, going through a rheostat and then an amp meter where you adjust the amps going into the battery. It's protected by a 20 amp breaker as well he went through. I want to get it back up and running. I'm looking at one of these rectifier modules to just replace the rectifier plate in it. The max output he figured in this charger was 50 amps and he used diodes from an automotive alternator for the rectifier plate. I would just change the diodes in the plate he made and put it back ?? I get a little confused on the wiring of these types of diodes. I know they have different polarities. The module you used just seems simpler to use. Thank you for your video. It's been most helpful. I will review the part I missed.
Technology advances, You don't see a lot of those old plate style rectifiers any more. The newer parts are smaller and more efficient.
it's a good habit to keep terminals greased up in tools like that and in automotive use, keeps the moisture out and saves you a lot of frustration.
Good tip!
What grease you recommend ? 3 in 1 light oil ? A quick WD-40 light coat ? Dielectric grease ?
What I am wondering why Barry did not use the aluminum heatsinks that were already in the box to connect the bridge rectifier ??? The twist terminals from the transformer should always be taken off and cleaned MINIMUM. THEY always have corrosion which affects the power and performance of all units. JUST saying as I have repaired hundreds of these type of units. I will stand by my experience with successful repairs and many happy customers.
Have yourself a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year Barry. Peace vf
Thanks for the tip! So far at the unit that I repaired has been working well. The old Selenium rectifiers were simply riveted to the sides of the box cover as a heat sink. The new silicon rectifier is a lot more efficient, so I don't think it puts out as much heat as the old ones, and likewise I just used the enclosure and a dab of heat conductive paste to dissipate any heat. In my use, it never gets very warm.
@@Barry-Watson Point well made and taken Barry. The new rectifier is way more efficient and cooler running. Have yourself a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Peace vf
@@Barry-WatsonI like your logic Barry. The new rectifier is way more efficient and well priced. I have learned that using aluminum as a heat sink really make electronic components perform best.
Peace vf 😀😀😀
A grand video about battery chargers, thank you Sir. Been watching how to bring dead. lead acid cell batteries back to life too. So great to simply watch a video how to pro.
I like the creation spirit quite a lot,
Regards
Jean-François
Great info thank you. I'm working on a associated 6002b and the rectifier diodes are smoked this helped a lot.
Great to hear!
I have a newer manual charger that I use to start stubborn diesels when cold (real with bad glo-plugs). My question is: is there a way to build a regulator so that on the higher amperage settings, I don't get enough voltage to kill my batteries.
Unfortunately it's not that simple, the vehicle presents a certain load, and into that load if you reduce the voltage you'll also reduce the current. This is ohms law. There may be good reasons to limit the voltage, but that will also limit the amount of current that a particular load will draw.
Smart video thanks for the description of rectifier operation
Thanks for watching!
@@Barry-Watson turns out one of the 4 diodes is faulty. Do you have a link for the bridge rectifier you used?
Sure!
Baomain Bridge Rectifier 200A 1600V Full Wave Diode Module
amzn.to/3UUgpJF
@@Barry-Watsonone more question. Why use the negative post of the rectifier? My original diodes were on the positive cable.
The battery charger could easily be designed to work either way.
On my unit the output cable was attached to the negative side of the rectifier, yours may differ. Just check the output leads of the charger with a meter to make sure that you're getting + on the red wire to be sure you're on the correct rectifier output for your charger. If the output is reversed, just move to the other rectifier output terminal.
Great repair video. Thanks
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.
thanks for showing the novel use for lock pliers, and soldering, and etc.
Berry I have a snap on/bluepoint/ Schumacher. I'm almost sure it's just the control board failed. I can't find parts for it and I would like to keep it somehow. Any universal controller or a bypass to run off the transformer?
Sorry, I don't know that unit. I'd start by reaching out to the manufacturer(s) to see if they can provide a replacement board, and if not at least a schematic. Having a schematic makes troubleshooting and repair a whole lot easier.
If it's a big valuable transformer, you could consider building a new charger around it... you can find plenty of circuit designs in you search the web. Some of the old charger designs (like the one in this video) are pretty simple. But... is that worth the effort and your time, only you can decide.
Hey
Mr. Car Battery Charger Repair guy .
I have a 80 / 70 /325 amp charger by
ASSOCIATED EQUIPTMENT . It only puts out about 9 volts on the high setting
I can hear the transformer humming .
I see 2 rectifier plates each with a circular adhesive s labels , but NO DIODS .
UNLESS those CIRCULAR labels ARE the diodes ?
It looks like it might be from the 1970's .
I did replace the voltage selector switch and cleaned all the contacts, and removed some rust on the transformer .
Do you have any suggestions.
Yes, I would suspect those circular plates are your rectifiers, and one of them has failed. That was the situation with my unit. So I disconnected those old rectifiers from the circuit and replaced them with the more modern silicon bridge rectifier module that I used in the video. Best wishes.
Thank you .
I subscribed to your channel because I really liked the
calm slow , easy to follow way you have of explaining things for the beginner .
This video really caught my attention because it is the only 1 that has rectifier plates somewhat similar to my charger.
I guess because they are much older ?
My main reason for trying to fix it & get it going , is that it belonged to my dad. He passed away 2 years ago & these old chargers are just nicer than the new digitals now in the market .
I Looked closer at the rectifier plates & one does seem to have bubbled & lifted somewhat .
Do you know what is underneath those circular labels on those plates ?
Thank you!!
Selenium rectifiers (Used widely from the 1930s to the 1970s) are not repairable because they degrade over time, particularly due to heat, and once the selenium plates break down, they cannot be restored. When a selenium rectifier fails, it loses its ability to convert AC to DC effectively. Replacing old selenium rectifiers with modern silicon diodes or a bridge rectifier module offers significant advantages. Silicon diodes are far more efficient, with a lower forward voltage drop, meaning they waste less energy and generate less heat. They are also much smaller, more reliable, and have a longer lifespan. In addition, modern bridge rectifier modules are easy to install and provide better performance with higher current handling capacity, making them a superior solution for maintaining or upgrading old equipment.
@@Barry-Watson
Thank you.
I am gonna contact
ASSOCIATED EQUIPTMENT & see what replacement part they have available.
You simply need two silicon diodes that are rated to handle enough current for your battery charger. Alternatively you can use a bridge rectifier module, which is simply one block that contains multiple diodes. In the description underneath this video, I have a link to a bridge rectifier module that handles a lot of current, and I think would be a suitable unit for high powered battery chargers.
Even if they are still available, I would not replace the old selenium rectifiers, since they're not as efficient as modern parts.
Remember to use a little bit of heat sink thermal compound when mounting the diode block to the chassis so it can dissipate heat easily when charging with high currents.
This is an easy repair, good luck.
thanks for sharing 👍
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
Hey thanks for the Video. It' great when knowledgeable people share their skills. I have an old Schumacher that has saved me many times over the years. It's 2A, 40A and 200A boost. I thought the 200A was underperforming by the sound. My readings were (on a low battery) (setting, voltage at battery, Amps through positive cable) 2A, 12.3V, 1.5A, : 40A, 16.5V, 6.5A and for 200A boost, 19V, 15A. Do you think the 200A is underperforming? It's when it's 30F outside and the truck won't start that is the best test but that's when I'll need the boost. Thanks!
Your measurements seem reasonable to me. The transformers often hum a little, all that energy shakes the transformer windings a little bit.
Remember that with a constant voltage source, the amps delivered will vary according to the load (the battery charge state). So, even if the charger is capable of 200A, it will only deliver as many amps as the battery demands for a given charge voltage. So, I suspect it's working properly.
Looking at the internal wiring of my unit, I doubt it can actually deliver a full 200 amps for any period of time, however, it's a really strong and effective charger nevertheless.
@@Barry-Watson Thanks for the feedback. Its great to get a confidence boost by someone with the knowledge. One more project I can walk away from!
Thanks!
Good job! I wish someone would make a video on changing a smart charger into a manual one.
There is one video of a guy doing that to get rid of rust using, I can't think of the word.
There are several videos of fooling smart chargers with little batteries.
The ideal video, for me, would be one where the guy eliminates the smart board from 3 or 4 different types of smart chargers and installs a 1 hour or 90 minute timer on each.
I have a pile of smart chargers and they all a little different, The big one has a timer which is where I got the timer idea. I need a new one and find many on ebay. Some from dryers with a motor on it and some with a bell. Some are from electric ovens and simply "appliances". I'd like one that is mechanical with only 2 wires.
As you ca tell, I could write 20 pages asking questions and making comments. I just want to mention one quick one. Those yellow wire connectors that crimp on the wire fail too often. I just strip the wire and loop it around the bolt. Its ugly and unprofessional looking BUT when compared to one that pulled out it works a million times better. On paper, it should be the last resort but in reality it makes the best contact and most reliable. I think instead of soldering the connector, soldering the end of the copper wire back onto itself making a loop has the best result even though ugly and unprofessional. Just my opinion.
I just subscribed.
If you're looking for a simple inexpensive power supply, the first thing that comes to mind is a device like I've linked below. These switching power supply modules are pretty capable, and are inexpensive.
If you're charging batteries a concern I may have is can you adjust it to get the exact voltage you want, this one is limited to a little under 14 volts maximum output.
amzn.to/428svjJ
@@Barry-Watson Thank you for the reply. I have several non-working battery chargers. I actually got one as a wedding present 40 years ago and it works fine and is my primary one. If I can fix all of the broken ones I will keep one for spare and give the other 3 away to anyone who needs it. The one is expensive and brand new. It was given to me because it wouldn't charge a completely dead battery. I don't think there is anything wrong with it. I just want to make it manual and would like to buy a few timers.
Thanks again and I'll go now to check out your link
Battery chargers take single diodes you can double them up triple them up for more amperage but a bridge rectification ain't going to do s***you're wasting your money all these assholes on RUclips 40 years from now no amps l you have volts but you will have no amperage just the way it works
Thanks for the comment. A bridge rectifier is simply four diodes wired in a certain configuration. You could use individual diodes, or a "module" that contains 4 diodes in one package. Electrically it's the same.
I think today's modern diodes are probably more reliable than the old ones.
In my unit, I could have replaced the two old rectifiers with two new diodes, but the bridge rectifier module seemed to me like a easier solution, and it was cheaper. I didn't use all the terminals on the rectifier module - I only used two of the diodes in the bridge rectifier, preserving the original charger design. The new silicon diodes in the bridge rectifier module are rated for more current than the original ones used in the charger, so it should be able to deliver as much or more power than it did originally.
Hay quick question can I delete all the smart crap on my new Battery charger??? I'd love to cut it all out and throw it all away. Id appreciate and details on that question, Thanks.
The microprocessor controlled smart chargers and the old fashioned linear power supply chargers are significantly different designs so I question the practicality of trying to convert one to another. The only real common issue that I see with modern chargers is that they won't try to charge the battery if the voltage is too low. Best wishes!
@Barry-Watson Thanks for the quick response. Well then I guess I'll keep it a smart charger then. I was hoping you'd say do this and do that and it would be done. But it's OK no worries Thanks again.
If you want a manual battery charger, they are available. I might hunt the used market for an old unit, they're usually pretty simple long lasting designs.
Very good and helpful video. However a voltage of 12.7 on the low range is questionable. Lead/acid battery cells are nominally 2.2V so 6 cells would be 13.2 volts. You will see this on a freshly charged battery. However you did not show your setup for measuring that voltage. Certainly you didn't take a DC reading with open leads for it would have been up to 18-19 volts. So I am guessing that hopefully you had it connected to a battery less than fully charged and it should eventually get to 13.2V or a little more.
I had not thought about the secondary being center tapped but that makes sense. That way the secondary could be wound for 24v(probably 36v) instead of 12 and it would take half as many turns.
I too have doubts about 120V supplied chargers supplying 200A. That would require 20A at 12V but you want more than 12 volts so thus more than 20A would be required. However circuit breakers will take an overload for a while without triiping so maybe the charger really is providing 200A figuring the overload will last less than a minute.
Thanks for the video. I am looking for an old style charger so you boost my hopes of finding one that is repairable. I hate the newer smart chargers that have their own idea of what I want. The worst part is the the reversed lead detection that won't charge a completely dead battery. I had to jumper to another battery to get the charge started. Later I took the charger apart and put in a sneak circuit connected to a pushbutton so I could fool the crappy thing into thinking there was voltage present. I really hate that Schumacter has such a large share of the market now as I find their products to be substardard. I had a job offer from them but the pay was way below the going rate. So how are they going to get good engineers offering crappy pay?
Yeah, good point. The output range of that thing was from just under 13 volts, and then upward depending upon the setting. I was concerned it would be too high of voltage with the more efficient modern diodes, but it turned out ok.
Since repairing that unit, so far it has worked really well for quickly charging up depleted batteries.
Sadly, a lot of the former respected brands of battery chargers are now actually made cheaply offshore by companies like Baccus Global LLC and are not the same quality as the older products.
why is there always this guy trying to spew off at the guy trying to actually help. why dont you go make your own video showing what it should be instead of trolling this one
Hey barry, I was wanting to do this upgrade to my unit as well, to run my charger on 200 amp charge in 15 minute intervals, will this rectifier work for that or would I need a higher amp rectifier like 300 amp for the longer high amp application?
Bigger is better, I think the real issue is keeping the part cool enough. Use a big heat sink and thermal paste.
@Barry Watson okay thank you for the video and timely feedback it is much appreciated!
Is there a shop I can send my charger to get any repairs short of buying all new?
Unless the equipment is very expensive, sadly it's usually much more cost effective to replace than repair.
Here is an excellent smart car battery charger that's very inexpensive, under $30. amzn.to/49gwfmc
Hello I have a older Sears battery charger model #934.718460 . Rectifier seems to be defective. Mine has two large negative leads from secondary windings of the transformer. That goes to ,what looks like there are two four diode bridges Should I look at purchasing two bridge rectifiers modules ? Have pictures. Couldn’t see how to add pictures using RUclips app. Thank you in advance.
If you only have two leads coming off of the output of the transformer that go into 4 diode rectifiers, I would assume it's a bridge rectifier configuration. The diode module that I used is a bridge rectifier, so you'll only need one. Connect the transformer output leads to the AC terminals of that bridge rectifier block, and connect the output charging cables to the plus and the minus labeled terminals. And that's it. I think that's all you need to do, measure the output voltage to make sure it's rational.
My charger was wired a bit differently, so I only needed to use half of the functionality (diodes) of that bridge rectifier block.
I put a link to that part in the video description.
Good luck!
@@Barry-Watson Thank you for replying!
Mine has 3 leads coming out of the secondary side of transformer. 2 negative and one positive. Is there a way to send a picture?
In that case, your unit is probably wired the same as mine was. The center tapped lead, probably the red wire, goes out to one of the battery clamps, and the other two wires from the transformer go to the rectifiers. So attach those two black wires to the ac side of the new rectifier block, and then just use one of the output terminals (plus or minus) to the other output lead clamp. Use a meter to make sure that your red output lead is positive, if the polarity is reversed then just attach to the other output (+/-) of the rectifier block. So, in this case on the rectifier block you will have two ac wires coming in, one output wire, and one unused terminal. And, again you'll only need a single rectifier block.
Awesomeness
Did you not have the right size ring terminals? Those were not a good match. Otherwise nice job. 👍
Good call. Sometimes, I use the parts I can find.
Great video
Thanks!
Hey barry, I'm having some trouble wiring my battery charger up and was wondering if I could email you and get help with this problem?
I'll help if I can. Post here, or you can find my e-mail listed on the "about" page on this RUclips channel.
You can reach me at soundthrust @ gmail.com
@Barry Watson I found that, lol, sorry did not know I had to open the web page in web mode to see it
@Barry Watson I did email mail you a brief description with some images
I see that you know a great deal about electricity. I wonder if you would consider my problem. I have a 400 ft well with a 3 wire 1 horsepower pump. How it works is the 2 legs of 220 go to a pressure switch. Once activated the 2 wires go to the pump control box which has a start capacitor and sends 3 wires to the pump. The water goes to an expansion tank then upon reaching like 60psi everything shuts off.
What if my water freezes? What if a break in the pipes causes water to go everywhere and I am not around?
I went to the local business and they have no answer.
Proposal: If I had just a pressure sensor that made a signal turn on a relay that powered the control box I could set up a timer that if the pump runs for more than, say 4 minutes, it automatically shuts off. I would love an alarm, too. In fact, I wouldn't mind a blue light at the well that tells me when the pump is on. Since I'm dreaming I would like to know the amps the pump draws while on so in the future i could track differences. It would be nice if all of this were somehow in some log that would tell me the history of the particulars.
I know I'm not the only one with this problem yet no one makes a plug in solution to it.
You need not spend your time on this, I would feel guilty if you did, but if you like this type of problem solving I (and probably others) would appreciate the help.
Thank you
It just occurred to me, If the pump shut off it could send a text to me saying it shut off. Also, I'd like a digital reading of water pressure on my pump house.
If you made these and called them "smart well pumps" i think you would see thousands of them.
If you're concerned that the remote pump system might freeze, I think I'd follow a simple approach of insulating a cover over it or a box around it. I'd stick a heat lamp (and maybe heated pipe wrap) in there and use the temperature controller like the one linked below (This is the unit I use on our chicken coop) This digital controller turn on the heat lamp if things get too cold below your setpoint. This will do a good job of maintaining above freezing temperature within the enclosure, and will prevent the system from freezing up. It's a pretty inexpensive solution.
amzn.to/47C9eIK
Hey Barry I just left some comments on another video.
But I’ve been working for a band for the last year and starting 2-3 months ago I’ve been doing sound more and more. We play 2-4 shows a week from March-Oct, now during the winter it’s slower…
I’d like to email you if I could. Do you have one you can send me? Back in aug our sound guy quit last minute and I ended up doing sound and doing so on the fly not knowing anything really. Learning our entire pa at a gig… granted we didn’t start until 5 instead of 3 lmao. Un-muting the PA and mixes was the hardest thing to find lmao. Getting signal, little simple things like that smh
But I’d appreciate if I could ask you some questions and run some things by you about combos we use like more then one channel per instrument. What a better combo would be. In your opinion anyway.
Thanks, Jesse
Thanks Jesse! My contact info is listed on the About page (at the top) on this channel.
@@Barry-Watson I found how to see it, I gotta sign in on the browser. I’m using the app.
I'm through buying modern chargers. They're junk, and many times won't charge a dead battery, which is ridiculous!
I don't think they're all junk, but sadly there is a lot of junk on the market.
Perhaps not all. I've just had really poor luck with them. Too many times the "smart" functions go haywire and don't allow the battery to charge, yet II could use a manual charger and it worked fine. The electronic controls have been unreliable in my experience.@@Barry-Watson
Yeah, I've had similar experience. But I also have a couple 'Battery Tender Plus' smart maintenance chargers I've used for years, and they work well (so far!).
amzn.to/47tacab
Came here to see Neil Young talk about battery chargers.
It's max 40amp can charge, not 200Amp
I suspect you're probably right, it sold as a 200 amp charger, that's what it says on the box. I know it can deliver an awful lot of current, but I'd be surprised if it can really deliver a lot more than 40 amps long term. The silicon rectifier I installed should be good for all of that current and more. Thanks!