Anti-Authority Pilot Crashes Brand New Piper M600
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- Опубликовано: 23 июн 2021
- Piper Aircraft www.aeroavion.com/piper-aircr...
The Piper M600 is a sophisticated single-engine, glass-cockpit aircraft powered by a 600 hp Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6 turboprop engine. It is capable of carrying up to six people, fly a distance of more than 1,600 nm at speeds up to 274 knots. The M600′s service ceiling is 30,000 feet, but without an instrument rating, a vfr pilot would have been unable to legally fly higher than 17,500 feet.
On June 15, 2020, a private pilot who is not instrument rated and owner of a new Piper PA-46 M600 lost control of his airplane shortly after touchdown in a right crosswind at the Williston Municipal Airport (X60) in Williston, Florida. The aircraft was substantially damaged during the Part 91 VFR flight. Local Florida weather at the time of the accident was good VMC with just a few scattered clouds at 4,800 feet.
You can read the full article here www.flyingmag.com/story/news/...
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Mike, couldn't agree more. I have a ton of experience flying carrier-based jets in the Navy and large, fast transcontinental jets in my professional civilian career. I recently purchased a high performance single engine turboprop and won't climb into it without proper training. I hate looking at it in the hangar and have washed it a couple times while waiting for instructor availability. The urge to fly it is real, but never without training...
I'm no pilot but I would imagine your professionalism has something to do with flying at the limit and knowing all those years of training were useful in stressful situations. I have a 9 yr old that has been laser focused since he was 5 on becoming a navy pilot.. I have been doing research trying to learn the different paths guys have gone to reach that goal.
Or find a pilot friend with time in type.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is professionalism. Accept my salute.
📖✈️
Dave,
You will have the privilege to become an old bold pilot.
Kudos
🛫🛬📖🛐🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
No amount of training can help someone with more ego than common sense.
Pride commeth before the fall.
Wrong, not pilots fault, it’s a known defect in the steering actuator that Piper is trying to sweep under the carpet. Same thing happened six times to other experienced pilots in last two years, all those acft were damaged also, “”””same cause””””. Mojo kiddie channel doesn’t have a clue to acft design and what’s really going on. Such losers in here.
@@tropicthndr Perhaps your right about a mechanical defect, but that doesn't negate my post.
@@Kefoo_ Why do you say that?
@@syramento -- You didn't see the quotation marks?
You didn't look @tropicthndr's comment?
Okay, I understand.
So, here's your personal spoon-fed answer to that question:
tropicthndr
4 days ago
_"Wrong, not pilots fault, it’s a known defect in the steering actuator that Piper is trying to sweep under the carpet. Same thing happened six times to other experienced pilots in last two years, all those acft were damaged also, “”””same cause””””. Mojo kiddie channel doesn’t have a clue to acft design and what’s really going on. _*_Such losers in here."_*
*_Scheesh!_*
Physics don't give a rat's ass how rich we are, the great equalizer.
Physics and experience.
All position and not for aerospace will strain thrust bearings and crank energy
I got my pilots license last year with the goal of being able to fly my dads Piper Saratoga. I went through a flight school that had diamond da-20s and finished in just over 50 hours. My plan was to then get an instructor to sign off on my high performance/complex/type rating. I assumed that would require 15-20 hours in the Saratoga. When I tried to even get myself added to the Saratoga’s insurance policy, the insurance company refused to add me until I had an additional 60 hours of instruction time in the plane. I have just under 20 hours in the Saratoga now and I don’t think 60 will even be enough! It’s like learning to fly all over again. How someone could feel confident enough to switch from a 172 and try to solo in a turboprop with under 100 hours is beyond my understanding.
Ego, and arrogance.
Takes time. I know a few people who spent a lot of time hour building before doing their complex type/multi. One of them now flies citations.
As an air traffic controller at a center, and someone who is also an instrument rated private pilot with a few hours shy of 300. This video is SPOT ON! Good job! Keep up the good work!
I have nearly 5,000 hours of jet time and still approach every flight with great caution. Even flights on easy VMC days are to be treated with respect. Never let your ego get in the way of flying safely.
I just ran across something that changed my mind. A airline captain with over 20k hours called me asking for a single engine add on. He started in the military and only got 20 hours in a 172 after that to today all multi engine jets. Training is the factor that makes it safe.
This is an individual that is commonly referred to as having more money than sense.
I always heard it as “having more dollar than sense.”
Just the many car owners of super cars. So, so many videos of owners spinning out and crashing.
Went from my school's Cherokee, to my own '61 Colt, and even the backward curve was real.
Preach on, brother.
Went from my first flight in a moth, to my second in a harvard at duxford, to Cessnas for my ppl, to moths again, then a super cub and currently a rearwin sporters and soon to be a curtis wright travelair. Any aircraft will kill a pilot if underestimated. or rather any pilot will kill themselves if they overestimate themselves.
Going from a 100 or 125 mph plane, to even just a 200 mph plane is an entirely new world that should not be attempted without many hours of dual training.
It said he had 54 hours in this type, we don’t have the paperwork so you could assume he could of possibly had 50 hours dual
Think of WW2 pilot’s with a few hundred hours and jumping into a P51 or P47. Proper training made it happen. Oh and they were 18 years old give or take a few.
@@dirtcurt1 With all respect, lots of them didn't made it...
Ok Boomer😒
@@armadasinterceptor2955 you got me.... didn’t know 90’s babies were boomers.
It’s like jumping frm a Mini Cooper to a super car with wings
Your example is much easier. But yes
I like my Mini.🤣😂
This guy's got 99 problems but an airplane ain't one 😅
😂😂😂
You don't really want an airplane. You want a friend with an airplane. Much cheaper that way.
That’s how I am with boats XD
😂 Damn true! He or she might even let you fly it during the easy parts.
For boats we call it "OPB"--Other Peoples' Boats. OPP also definitely applies.
A long time ago someone told me that a boat was a "hole in the water you throw your money into," and a plane was a "hole in the sky you throw your money at." It's gotten even more expensive in the decades since.
@@harblz57 After all, boat stands for Bring Out Another Thousand XD
Mike, I am not a pilot but have been studying aviation for many years hence this video makes so much sense so well done and keep up the good work.
Pilots: there bold, there are old, there are no old bold.
My instructor said this to me when I started learning 40 years ago. It still holds true.
I was starting to worry that no one was going to quote the old well worn phrase.
@@jimarcher5255 One of the few things I can be relied on, to drag up the old, grimy, unoriginal but applicable.
Mike, recovered rusty pilot here, started back with about 140 hours under my belt from 25 years earlier with goal to fly Cirrus 22s. I got some great advice along the restart, first of which was not to start back in a 22 (which I had never flown in before), so I knocked the rust off in a 172.
When I was comfortable in the 172, I transitioned into the Cirrus sr20, a relatively significant jump in performance. Still my goal was the 22, but an instructor at the time gave me sage advice, in a 22, or any high performance single for that matter, you have the ability to cross multiple weather systems in one flight, he told me to hold off on the 22 and get my instrument rating to keep myself out of weather trouble.
So I got my instrument rating in the 20 which much improved my flying and ability to work within the ATC system. From there, the transition into the 22 was a breeze. I'm at almost 700 hours now and having a blast. I do recurrent training per Cirrus' recommendation every 6 months, the training is basically a flight review (I get a sign off) alternating with an IPC every 6 months. They are actually fun and help identify weak areas and bad habits that tend to form.
I think you are absolutely correct, jumping into an advanced plane like this guy did at 45 hours is nuts. Piper should be a little more discerning IMO. I get the appeal, but it is very easy to kill yourself and these airplanes will get ahead of you before you know it.
I didn't read any NTSB info on this accident, but from your description this sounds like a basic airmanship issue where he lost control, probably on the ground due to crosswind. `That's piloting 101, the situation sometimes doesn't occur until you are well on in your piloting, but then one day it happens, you land, you relax the crosswind controls because you aren't in the air, the airplane weathervanes and you are headed toward the grass. In a 172 you are going 40 mph, it's easier to fix, put the aileron back into the wind, and straighten out the nose. In a plane like the M600, you are going 70 mph, much less time to recover, and if it's the first time it happened to you, you may not know how to fix it. In the 172 just using the rudder is usually enough, although the wings may tip. In the 600, you are going into the weeds.
I hope this guy learns his lesson and flies another 100 hours with a mentor pilot, preferably while getting his instrument rating. That will make him safer and allow him to go above 18,000 feet where he will be able to get the speed and the range he paid for.
Man this channel is awesome! I've been toying with the idea of learning to fly for like 5 years. I ended going and getting some maritime qualifications and sailed for 2.5 years, but now I'm kinda keen on going and finally getting some flight training! Thanks for the inspiration and wisdom that you pass on.
Great video Mike! I started my training in a 150/152, then the C172. half a year after receiving my PPL I bought my first AC a Piper PA28-180. Drove that one for 400h, then transitioned (with training for endorsement) to my current BE33 Bonanza (complex HP). Turboprop is a totally different game though- without thorough training, a no go! And yes a TP without IR fairly senseless. Closing in on 800h now and enjoying my plane- but only because im still alive :)
Hope you aren't a dentist.
I went from a Ford Pinto too a Lamborghini and never had a problem. Until that stupid tree jump in front of me.
Great advice and video. Just discovered your channel and I’m loving it!
As far as I remember, he's only required to have an endorsement for high performance and complex aircraft. Did he have those endorsements? Too bad an endorsement for common sense isn't required.
In the case of the M600 a high altitude endorsement as well.
@@MysterKnowles Only need that if you actually fly at high altitudes.
Nose gear steering actuator failure doesn’t care about your common sense because that’s what caused the accident and the same six other accidents by experienced pilots. Last two years steering actuator failure caused same abrupt turn off runway causing damage to all the acft. Not pilot fault, it’s a known defect that Piper is desperately trying to hide and get out from under the liability suits coming at them. Arm chair losers on this channel just want to believe everything Mojo says, such morons.
@@Mooja12 And you wouldn't in a turboprop? Seriously?
Those might be the FAA requirements but the guy's insurance company would require type training and a bunch of dual hours with an instructor before being allowed to solo.
I’ve been practicing with MS Flight Simulator. I’m ready for an F-18! 👊😎 YOLOOOOOOOO!
hahahahaha
I crashed every plane in MSFS , I cant land a plane in MSFS always crash
Naw but if you practiced in DCS you might be ready for f18
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!
hah yeah, i even feel unqualified jumping to jets and complex aircraft in MSFS lol - let alone IRL
Mike, love your videos; clear, entertaining, no-hype. Excellent! Keep up the good work!
This is an incredibly balanced approach to "trading up" and the associated risks/demands of higher-performance aircraft. Also, love the point you made about making mistakes as a new pilot and how those mistakes can be fatal in more advanced aircraft. Great video Mike!
Speaking to friend back in the day, he said that during the second world war in Australia, he was told to take "that aircraft" and fly it interstate in a group formation. It was a P51D Mustang. As he said, he was just a young man with little flying experience in Mustangs but that what his orders were. If you look at my fathers generation, there was no room or opportunity for second chances or second guesses. This owner with the Piper M600 had every opportunity and the luxury to be trained. Wonder why he chose not to.
Rich people have been killing themselves in bonanzas and Mooneys since before I was around. Then came Cirrus. This guy just wanted to 1up multiple generations
Could it be an overabundance of testosterone and arrogance?
@@harblz57 in my experience, arrogance is not necessarily linked to testosterone. In 31 years in the military, the most dangerous, arrogant officers were generally strongly suspected of having no organs to produce it.
@@harblz57
Testosterone actually makes men more calm. Men with lower Testosterone have more anxiety issues on avg.
@@ogzombieblunt4626 And an overabundance makes them overconfident assholes.
Mojo, thank you for the reminder that you have to crawl before walk, and walk before run. I find myself having grand ideas because I can, but the reality is, I need more time in the air before moving forward. Although I’m in that older age group, I have no desire to be a yard dart!
Great video again, Mike! Many thanks!!
Really cool video and some great insight into someone jumping the gun because they have the money. You make some really valid points and I'm not giving this new pilot a pass but it should be noted, the Piper M600 has had a number of landing accidents due to the same situation that this pilot did. This was partly due to the canted nosewheel upon landing. There's several NTSB incident reports mentioning the canted nosewheel contributing to landing accidents in the M600. Just thought it's something to take note off. Again not giving the pilot a pass, he certainly should've taken the Piper training and heed the warning of not being granted insurance because of his low hours.
Training in a piper archer 2. Best price in the area was a club with a buy in. Still ends up cheaper when adding up the hours, not to mention the benefit of counting to fly it when I get my private.
Great work, great analysis, and I've been a pilot for quite a long time. Those airplanes have a very notorious reputation for being hard to handle. Even when they had less horsepower they were notorious. Then they just put bigger engines on them. Thank you for your analysis and reporting. I have 2500 hours and I would still hesitate to fly that plane by myself at least for a while. Thank you for your very thorough research. I will continue to follow you. Keep it up!
I do appreciate that you recognize the pilot's limitations and your limitations personally.. I think I probably I think I have probably done upside down aerobatics in a fighter plane more than the pilot you're mentioning. Super ridiculous and that is way too much airplane to handle for anyone who is not a super experienced pilot. I really appreciate your channel
Great content, very informative. I like the way you laid out the facts and the “pros and cons”
Thanks for sharing your expérience.
Great job Mike, I"ve been following you a long time, even when you were just a student Pilot, you had me fooled, I would had wagered that you were a CF2, Commercial, Intrument rated Pilot, you just know how to explain Complex Aviation situations, with down to Earth jargon, and make it soooo understandable, keep up the good work, and keep your Dream alive of one day having a thriving Aviation Dearlership, GOD Bless.
Great advice Mike 👍🏾
Thank you. I needed that
Military student pilots fly T-6 Texan Aircraft (Turboprops, retract, high performance) with about the same hours...they solo them without an instrument rating!
Then it's on to the T-38/F-5 - a twin-engine turbojet, supersonic trainer....
That is so true I am a former marine who was a mechanic on fixed and rotor wings. The military gives great training but they move on to fighters with not so many hours. When you step up in aircraft get proper training
But that’s a completely different environment, regimented, disciplined, structured training program for people dedicated to flight. The guy in this incident sounds like he was just trying to do it legally but trying to skirt any rules and making his own rules just for himself.
@@jimgoff1170 I agree, it is a different training environment but his point was about the pilot in question being a new/low time pilot and I can tell you from first hand knowledge that many (dozens) of military students fly just as complex aircraft everyday with similar experience. I live and fly in the Pensacola area and share the sky with them...
@@scottmiller4711 I guarantee they have many hours more classroom and simulator training than this guy, and if they don't make their training gates, they get washed out. The difference isn't necessarily time, it's training and focus.
The faster the plane, the faster everything happens. Without the necessary experience pretty soon oops you are overwhelmed.
The rate of events difference can be easily adapted to with 50 hours on flightsim.
@@homomorphic one would have to know the scenarios and techniques needed to train themselves that way on a flight sim. I think the person who is that attentive, is also going to have better judgement than to do something so out of their league.
@@thomaskeysiv1270 agreed. I'm just saying that you can prepare yourself for the different rate of events with flightsim, long before you sit in the cockpit.
@@homomorphic yes, it is possible.
@David Howard - It’s not true that the faster aircraft the faster things happen. Things like the M600 can fly just as slow as most high performance singles and don’t have the complications of piston aircraft. They are easy aircraft to fly. Where things go wrong is thinking ahead. Not until you have learnt to do that will your be able to fly the plane. Flying these this things is little to do with pulling on the levers, it’s all about management and not putting the plane where your brain hasn’t already been.
He did one thing well. Got his PPL in 45 hours.
wait till his DPE gets reassessed
@@SafakSahin Ya, I was impressed! I got mine at about 80.
I’d bet this guy is now uninsurable.
@@BradleySpahn I am 65 hours into ppl training, done with written, completed all the requirements of the training, not rushing for a checkride yet. before the training though I was like i'll get my license in the 40th hour. i am more chill now. my training taught me that there is no room for rush in aviation.
@@cypilotiowan4761 I think he is super rich, probably can self insure
Thank you for the video.
Another great vid with insightful analysis.
Surprised this doesn’t happen more. There’s a lot of rich people with big egos out there.
it happens ALOT. It's one of the reasons insurance prices are going up.
doctors are notorious for this kind of shit
Accidents can happen at all experience levels
That is true. However, when it's on your first solo in the type, it might be indicative.
That's true, but this one didn't have to happen, acquring this plane was suspect, everything about the whole arrangement from Day 1 smelled of a an accident ready to happen, and it DID.
Mike when I followed your TSI build story via RUclips, I had not idea you were doing this as a business venture to start your own build assist facility in NC. When I watched your videos there in Torrence, I looked beyond the build experience you were sharing with us and saw a very impressive business model there. I like the idea of having a build assist facility like that being able to help others fullfill their dreams and help someone learn a new skill. Kudos to you guys there in NC for what you have created.
Great advice Mike
Keep in mind, the faster the plane the less you fly. Slow planes build a lot of experience while not going very far. Fast airplane, get you into unfamiliar territory that much quicker.
Yes. Much more opportunity for the airplane to get ahead of you instead of vice-versa.
Great point. Lots of distance, fewer hours.
I've seen this theme in all activities I've been involved with. There's always that new guy who wants to start at the top...it's never ended well.
That is great advice. When I bought my Mooney, I had 20 or so hours of transition training and it was very worthwhile.
I had a brand new pilot’s license with 45 hours logged when my father had me check out in his Comanche. After the CFI signed me off (High Performance, Complex) I turned to my father and said “That guy’s a fool!” My father said, I have no intention of you taking this plane up by yourself - but now you can legally log the time you fly with me. I had over 200 hours of right seat Comanche time before I sat in the left seat of that plane (and 200 more hours and an instrument rating in other aircraft). By that time I no longer felt like I was way behind the Comanche, chasing it across the sky.
He probably could have pulled it off if he trained in a Cessna 140. Tailwheel aircraft. It teaches you how to land correctly. I used to own one. When I do my BFRs the instructors always comment how well I land. It's because of that 140.
I doubt training in a 140 would have helped him. Tail dragger skills are very helpful, but there is so much more going on with a turboprop that 99 hours is just not enough. These airplanes need to be flown with precison in all modes, even taxiing.
I agree. Started some tailwheel at the 200 hr mark. It helps!
I am speechless! There’s zero chance that he could get insurance. Also, without an instrument rating, he would be limited to flying below 18,000 feet. Turbine engines are not happy unless they are in the flight levels. Finally, I wonder if he had the endorsements necessary to fly that airplane. You would need a complex endorsement and a high-performance endorsement. I can’t imagine that he would have both of those with that amount of time. I didn’t do what this guy did exactly but I went from a Piper Saratoga (single engine piston) to a Cessna Conquest II twin engine turboprop. I had 1,600 hours at the time but only 7 hours of multi-engine and no turbine time. And the multi time was from 33 years earlier. I was able to get insurance but it wasn’t cheap and lots of simulator and dual instruction was required before I could fly it solo or take passengers. I have about 120 hours in it now and I’m still learning. And I also have to say that my next absolutely perfect flight will be my first one. And I’m not talking only about the Conquest, I’m talking about my whole flying career. There’s always something I could have done better.
What are the “flight levels?”
@@carpballet At 18,000 feet and above, all aircraft set their altimeters to 29.92 rather than any local setting. Thus, rather than flying at an MSL (mean sea level) altitude based on a local altimeter setting, you're flying at a "level" based on setting the altimeter at 29.92. So, at 18,000 and above you're at flight level such and such. 18,000 is flight level 180, 32,000 is flight level 320, etc.
There is NO requirement to have insurance for an airplane!
@@MarkRollag True, if you pay cash and you are willing to be out that cash in the event of an incident.
Nice vid man, thoughtful and right on target!
Hi Mike,
Good video mate.
I concur, safety first.
I am glad the pilot of that Piper M600 survived the crash.
i cant afford a car but i watch all your videos
That’s like learning to drive a civic, then buying a Bugatti.....
Only worse.
Perfect, thanks for the info
Great video.
Many happy landings.
Been wanting to fly my entire life. I was contemplating a M600 or TBM940. You really gave me a lot to think about. Thanks for a great video.
Start small and work your way up. It takes time, effort and hours in the airplane. No fun finding yourself in something you can't yet (keyword is yet) handle.
@@freddobbs2011 thanks Fred for the advice.
The 80K for the autoland option is a nice safety feature on the TMB940, for sure.
@@freddobbs2011 That is how motorcycle licenses are done in Japan. You have to work your way up. You can't just buy a crotch rocket as your first motorcycle.
The turboprop piper will slow to climb, and up against the VNE on descending. It needs ballast to fly within CG single pilot, and sacrifices the forward baggage compartment for the turboprop engine. The piston is actually a better aircraft except over long distance high altitude flying.
The TBM is a little smaller, but is a much better aircraft overall. More like a very light jet in performance, with the cost savings and better runway options of a turboprop.
When you talk about pilots, even experienced pilots, making mistakes I've been a direct witness to many while serving in the Air Force during my eight years on flying status. There was and still is an unwritten rule that whatever happens in the cockpit stays in the cockpit with one exception- unless it involves serious injury, death or an accident investigation board. Most of the time training and self-correction- being critical on oneself- leads to the path of near perfection.
Great subject and video Mike. Keep on keeping on top of the clouds 🙂👍👍👍
Thanks Mojo, nice videos.
Oh oh, I went from solo in an arrow at 39 hours to solo in a Malibu with 64 hours, but had 28 hours of dual instruction. No sim's back then. But I also had my multi engine and IFR ratings prior. I moved up to citation training with 124 hours and solo'd at 149 and received my commercial rating soon after. The company I was working for pushed me through training, but I never felt rushed or under any pressure to get the ratings and I'm not ashamed to say I was hesitant to fly single pilot right out of the gate. Today the insurance companies rule and we never fly single pilot with paying customers except when hauling freeloaders. In that case, I don't even pressurize, haha. This was in the late 90's early 2000's though. Things changed greatly since 911. One note, I was raised in the flying environment and had been flying since I was a pup. Father and uncles were CFII's/MEI's. The table cloths on our dinner table was old sectionals. Ground school and IFR was a breeze. I guess you absorb a lot when you're just a kid. I could use a E6B before first grade.
Thanks for the excellent videos Mike. Never miss one. Keep up the excellent work.
I was born and raised on a training airfield except my mum all brothers and sisters were pilots or privet pilots (when they reached the age ), The first thing I saw in my life was nature, animals yellow painted planes tug planes and pilots LOL . Talks were about weather clouds planes pilots and crashes. Without knowing you learn a lot and one of those things is respect for each airplane and knowing the dangers when not respecting them. Mike always amaze me that although 'new' in aviation he absorbs things that matters like a sponge and is able to bring the message in an interesting and learnsome way for non pilots to experienced pilots:. Always refreshing-)
@@rafiqsaid4297 I agreed. This is the only aviation channel where I watch all the video's. I also passed my check ride on my 16th birthday. Two days before I got my license to drive a car.
When you don't pressurize for the freeloaders they're a lot quieter after that initial intoxication. 😉
@@skipdreadman8765 When flying right seat in the company Aerocommander the pilot and I would suck oxygen and depressurize when the clients got rowdy in the back. Makes for a better flight.
@@justsomedude2962 You have to be 17 years old to obtain a PPL.
If the manufacturer recommends or demands you take their type specific training, go take the training.
Something like that, You wont get insurance without attending the factory Type Training, of course NORMAL people also need, I'm trying to recall, if it's 500+ hours to even Attempt to get a Turboprop Type Rating, or if it's Minimum 1000 for ANYTHING Turbine. IIRC the Time requirements came from an Accident at an Airshow where a relatively Low -time Pilot had bought a Canadair Sabre (F-86) He decided to fly an Airshow with it with only 3 hours in the airplane. He made Every possible mistake you could make with that particular airplane, and ended up crashing it into the front of an Ice Cream Store, Killing IIRC 3 People (He Survived). That Accident made the FAA REALLY Start to look at who was jumping into High Performance Aircraft, and tightened down the regulations. There;s an Old adage :FAR's are Written in Blood. Now, the Idiot aside, Mike is 100% Correct about Insurance, It's gotten Insane..even as the Accident rate has been trending down. Friend of Mine Is a Professional Pilot, he's also FLown with both the USN and USAF Reserve/Guard. Dude has flown Thousands of Hours in Airliners, as well as F/A-18's, F-16's, and T-38's He looked into Buying a Vans RV-8 kit, His Insurance quote was several hundred dollars a Month.
That's why I'm confused why he was able to fly
@@eegger1 More Money than Sense....he was Legal when he was flying with his CFI. That said, had he not Broken his little toy the first time he tried to go solo, some FSDO would have noticed him doing stupid shit and conducted a ramp check eventually.
@@toadman506... Training on type and a Type Rating are completely different. In the US you do not need a type rating for any aircraft below 12,5000lbs max take off weight unless it is a jet (has turbojet engines), turboprops are not included as jet engines. In general if you have the money you will find someone to insure you under most circumstances albeit with extremely high premiums and or deductibles. Not sure what the requirements would be for having 3rd party insurance cover on an aircraft in the US to cover damages caused by an accident, I would have thought some would be required but some else might let us know on that.
You should read the NTSB accident report. It appears he could not take the manufacturer training because their insurance would not cover him in their airplane for the training. So he had his CFI take the training and then train him.
Great video… Great advice.
I really appreciate your perspective on the issues you presented. The other association I can make is it would be like someone who only has recently gotten their drivers license being given a Lamborghini to drive. They clearly lack the experience to handle that much power. Power is great but anyone has to have the experience and maturity (having necessarily nothing to do with age) to properly manage the increased complexities of the power. Thank you again for giving me some great information to work with.
Tanks fron Brasil
Great advice Mike always better to work from the bottom up .
I've heard a few stories of pilots, making small mistakes and have been lucky enough to talk about their experiences, herd of a few going through the fences at the end of the runway any over shooting the runway, As they consider them minor there not .it only takes minor mistakes to kill yourself or someone else. We don't hear often enough because pilots hide there mistakes even pilots with thousands of hrs make mistakes, you just hope you're not sitting behind them when it happens. Plus the fact that the technology today is not that simple and when facing 1 problem people tend to make multiple mistakes because the system takes great awareness and thought which is hard for low hr pilots.
Great video Mike keep em coming.
Spot on Mike, I had over 300 hours racked up over about 4 years on various Cessna (150/152/172/182) aircraft before I went up in a Grumman Cougar, in the left seat.
Even though I’d flown some 15 different aircraft before, the twin engine Grumman was a completely different experience and I was very happy to have my instructor alongside me.
If fact, I declined to taxi and takeoff when he offered to hand over control after start up. I wanted to see exactly what he did even though we had briefed prior and I wanted to gently feel (shadow) the controls while he had them before taking control myself.
I’m glad I did that because the controls were a lot heavier that what I had been accustomed to and things generally took place much faster.
Small steps and stages are safety’s best friend.
Very informative and interesting. A lot of great points.
I'd be willing to bet at closer inspection that plane probably has probably seen at least one overspeed condition if not more.
I doubt it but more because of the garmin avionics. They have lots of under speed and over speed protections. I’m about to buy an M600 and I demo’d the technology. It’s a fast plane but surprisingly easy to fly.
@@sjkmongie6402 clearly they don't have nose wheel first landing protection 🤣 All jokes aside thats good to know. The M600 sounds like a very capable aircraft.......in the right hands lol
For the most part you are 100% correct, but remember military pilots go from 0 hrs to Jets in a short amount of time with a lot more tasks to worry about than just flying.
Yes, but they do have some of the best training in the world, LOTS of sim time AND a rigorous vetting system! We don't even know if his CFI had cleared him for solo in that plane.
Many hours more training in a short period of time. And, they get washed out of they don't make the gates.
But military pilot get a lot of training
I went from a Cherokee 160 to Mooneys. What a difference. It took a little while to learn how to get it slowed down.
Your advice is rock solid.
It sounds like this pilot didn't even have a high performance / complex endorsement. Good video Mike!
Troubling!
I was thinking the same thing.
The FAA requires the pilot to have endorsements for several items meaning you cannot fly these kind of aircraft without the endorsements! I searched around a little bit to see what kind of action the FAA would take against someone who was not current with their endorsements. But I couldn’t find anything.
After getting the SEL I got endorsements for CS Prop, higher horsepower engine, RGear in a 182RG and Diamond DA40 (both had CS Prop). That added many more aircraft to choose from.
I was thinking the same thing, which you need for that airplane.
It is troubling, and I hope someone along the way tried to tell him(the pilot). However with 50 hours in type he could have easily received dual instruction and the necessary endorsements. Doesn’t make it right for this type of a leap but I’m guessing he’s was just a “more money than sense” guy and over confident rather than stupid or outside the law
There's a big difference between 'anti-authority' and over confidence. I am as anti-authority as they come, but I sure as hell wouldn't fly that plane with so few hours! That's one mean machine that demands respect. And training is cheap compared to the alternative.
Just for everybody’s edification. In World War II battle of Britain they were sending pilots up in Spitfire which is an extremely fast playing much faster than this thing not to have fun but the shoot down ME 109 G in aerial combat. Some were shot down some warrant but they were extremely low time pilots no auto pilot no boosted controls no air conditioning no halo system so yes you need training but it doesn’t mean someone that’s talented can’t fly the damn playing the same forces on a J3 cub or the same forces on this planeSome were shot down some weren’t but they were extremely low time pilot no auto pilot no boosted controls no air-conditioning no halo system so yes you need training but it doesn’t mean someone that’s talented can’t fly the damn plane the same forces on a J3 cub or the same forces on this plane. Some people take typing lessons for years and never could get past 25 words a minute another person take lessons for a month and type 60 it’s all about the person not plaSome people take typing lessons for years and never can get past 25 words a minute another person take lessons for a month and type 60 it’s all about the person not plane. Fast planes things happen quicker once you get past that speed rush it’s just a plain and systems if after 55 hours you can’t figure that plane out and it’s systems you shouldn’t be flying anything except a kite.
@@lifeingeneral9111 … Reading this comment was quite the experience
@@Andrew-pw2sy it's what happens when you use your voice because one missed placed his glasses
Good message Mike. I’m getting back into flying after 40 years! Re-doing my PP and Instrument training. Then plan to buy and fly a Sling, DA-40 or maybe an Archer to build hours for a year or so. Then move up to something more sophisticated, I’m retiring and blessed to have the time and $ now to do this. Why rush and risk? Appreciate your videos!
Great video MIke, ive been flying helicopters since 2001 & i started with a R44, then an Astar-350 turbine but after i had 350 hours, and kept on getting a better helicopter almost every 4 to 5 years to what i own now. I also recently got my fixed wing pilots in a 182 in 2021 and ive gotten 100 hours and will continue, i also am flying a caravan xl and have about 30 hrs in that and every machine handles differently and i needed to learn each one. Training is key and keeping current. Great video keep up the good work
Even those of us who are non aviators know that was a bad idea.
I would think a pilot has got to get used to flying a more powerful plane.
Instrument rating has nothing to do with owning or operating a turboprop or retracts.
You can be VFR rated you just need a high performance endorsement.
It would be in the owners best interest to be IFR rated for safety and insurance purposes but not required.
The owner of that plane is an idiot.
I own a 172 and have been flying for several decades. I'd NEVER transition into a plane with that performance without getting THOROUGH instruction and I'd damn sure wouldn't own a plane that I can't pay the insurance.
Planes are the most beautiful man made structures in the world to me. Sad to see that gorgeous airplane be disrespected like that.
INSANITY!!!
Ummm... that plane is capable of flying in the flight levels. Why get a plane like that if you're going to have to keep it low and slow?
An idiot who is now a million dollars poorer
Nice video Mike
Mike, I completely agree with your comments about piloting. Insurance is expensive because of the experience (losses suffered) by insurers in this market. I’ve sold policies which cost less than some automobile policies but the cost is directly related to value of the hull, pilot experience including their ratings, mission, and storage.
This airplane was on display at the factory in Vero Beach it is drop Dead gorgeous such a shame
WAS drop dead gorgeous
I cannot imagine any insurance company giving him insurance given his lack of training for that aircraft
At ~7:08 it is stated the pilot did not insure the aircraft, so it may not have be a decision by the owner/pilot, but a denial by insurance companies.
The "darting nosewheel" is a known issue in the M600 (and all M-class Pipers, such as the Mirage, Meridian, etc.), which requires pilot awareness and skill to prevent. You are spot-on about the unforgiving nature of this jet-like aircraft. Even 1,000 hours is still "low time" for a plane like this, and the insurance companies know this!
This was a gentle crosswind, but still too much for this pilot to handle. The pilot apparently landed the mains with RIGHT rudder input to align the plane with the runway, and as soon as the nosewheel gripped the runway (pointed RIGHT, consistent with the rudder input), the plane was in the grass before he knew what was happening.
Glad your flying for a couple reasons. Rock On.
WOW! I am amazed at some people's thought processes. Nailed this one on the head, Mike!
That will buff out!
lmao!!!!
Rallywax..good to go!!!
Ahh... just rub some dirt on it.
Err on the side of caution ALWAYS! Different aircraft have different flight characteristics so training is key for every aircraft. Good to see you in here BCP!
Great advice 👍
my first airplane will not be a brand new Piper M600.... so i will not run into this problem
Too much money, not enough brains.
Great video!
That's the plane I like the most on the simulator. I successfully flew and landed it the first time and many times since as long as I remembered gear down to go down as with any retractable gear aircraft. (If you don't have your gear down before you reach pattern altitude, you better have a planned sequence where you extend the gear because your work load intensifies. Putting the gear down late and unplanned alters the configuration adding drag and combining maneuvers with lower air speeds, you're asking for a wing stall. If not, you're likely to land long or hard.)
I sim it because it's way beyond my actual abilities. That makes it fun like when you are a kid trying on adult clothes. I'm probably over-studying to get my PPL but that's my response to how expensive it is. On paper, I'll have just over 40 hrs when I test but I've been studying nonstop for years.
The confidence the Piper instills (in the simulator) is probably misleading. It flys quite forgiving and the landings are smooth and predictable but it's no bush plane. With a plane like that, it's not that you can glass the landings, it's that you must. And it's fast. You're expected to keep up with your aircraft and fluently follow procedure and orders. How many VFR flights include studying all the possible approach procedures or pre-program the nav frequencies? In a Cessna, your control can shorten your downwind and final and stuff like that because you go slow. In a Malibu or something like it, they expect something more professional because your not in the slow lane for the short runway. Practice, practice, practice but don't dare do something if the FAA hasn't signed you off to do it
How could a 99 hour pilot even have a turboprop rating? And, what insurance company would underwrite him?
Some people don’t buy insurance. If you’re rich enough and put ownership in a protected corporate shell, it might be possible to go naked.
He is a better person than I. At about 270 hours, owning my Arrow N32693, I still catch myself being nervous.
172 at 65knots on downwind to 120 on downwind
There is no such thing aa a "turboprop rating".
@@michaelklenner. True, I misspoke. However, one needs a high altitude, complex, and high performance endorsement. And, while one could operate an M-600 under purely VFR rules, it’s insane to imagine operating such an aircraft without an IFR rating. At any rate, a 99-hour pilot as no business flying an M-600 solo.
Weren’t there experienced pilots of the M600 that suffered nose wheel steering problems? If that’s the case, it really doesn’t matter about your experience level.
Thank you for this content. I am seriously considering getting my pilots licence and I really appreciate your insights. 👍
Great video! You do fantastic work. I’m a VFR single engine pilot. 172 … I went up in a Mooney with a guy and he let me fly it. It’s totally different. It doest slow down like a 172. It actually scared me enough to realize I’m a 172 pilot VFR….
When he could afford the airplane, he could also afford a flight instructor to fly with him on business trips. Even when I was certified in each new aircraft endorsement I still took a instructor with me,
Yes sir , smart & still alive and flying !
I literally went from a C-172 directly to the right seat of a B-727 at a major airline. So, it can be done. I only had enough multi dual time to get the rating.
Seriously?? With all due respect, I'm actually trying to figure out whether you or the major airline was serious or delirious?? Again, no harm intended!
@@leanbean8376 unless you joined the military this is normal. I was actually scrolling waiting for someone to point this out. You still need loads more time than 99 hours. The airlines themselves put you through a bunch of training, and you still have a baby sitter in the left seat. So yeah it's not crazy. If anything it's over qualification
@@leanbean8376 So you have never heard of ab initio training? United Airlines is doing it right now. That is how most other countries do it. Well after 24,000 hrs. of jet transport flying, I guess I wasn't delirious.
@josue Kay I don't dispute that what he did was very stupid. The fact that he only had C-172 time is not as important as his low time and experience.
@josue Kay I think there is a misconception among people not in the business. The First Officer is fully qualified to take over command of the aircraft if something happens to the Captain. This is true from the very first flight. A First Officer is not a "trainee". At a major airline, the factor that determines if you fly as Captain or as FO, is 100% by your seniority with that airline - it has nothing at all to do with your experience or skill as a pilot. When forced to change airlines because of bankruptcies, I have found myself flying the right seat with Captains that had much less experience than I did. Also, when starting at smaller airlines with no seniority system, I have been hired off the street to fly Captain on Wide Body aircraft which I have never flown before. The point is, the thought that "an experienced captain" is there to take care of you is just not true. Both have to do their job from day one. I can't tell how many times I was asked as a FO by the public - "Does the Captain let you land the airplane?" How do you explain to them how stupid that question is...
Hey Mike, my dad was a pilot in the navy training in the 60s, he went from a Low horsepower Beechcraft to the 1200 hp T 28 Trojan. Quite a big jump, i’m not defending this guy in your video by any means, No doubt, but with the proper curriculum and training, A huge jump in performance can be made.
The navy and airforce do things differently than GA!
God that is a beautiful plane.
I can understand the attraction of wanting that plane.