I didn't know the Chaos Lord couldn't use bolt pistols. That is wild. Box locking is one of the biggest poisons in 40K. Where in the past creativity and effort were rewarded now you're punished for even daring to use bits from standard infantry on characters.
@@dawidkazmierczak7283 Okay, but _why?_ Like, who in their right mind would take a plain-ass Praetor with a bolt pistol and chainsword in Horus Heresy?
I kitbash how i want and play how my group wants. OPR rekindled the hobby for us all to what matters. No meta chasing, no cashcow, just the best time with your friends
Same here. We alternate between totally casual 40K games with missions from old narrative expansions like Vigilus from 8th, or OPR for smaller scale stuff or when using non-40K factions like Saurian Starhost. We're 5 games into a great campaign and having more fun than I've had in years.
It's a sad state of affairs all around, really. My mentor and gaming buddy - a tabletop veteran of some 30 years or so - had quite a bit to say about 10th ed just from a listbuilding perspective, and none of it was good. A Blood Axes army of kommandos, stormboys, and flash gitz? Can't field them legally. A World Eaters army he double-dipped with for 40k and Horus Heresy? Can't be played as either World Eaters or CSM. Word Bearers (also double-dipping)? Same thing. He pretty much deleted the listbuilding app right then and there, either because unit options he'd need were missing or because "out of the box" rules writing says you can't have both a plasma pistol and power sword on a unit champion, or more than one of the same special weapon in a squad of 10. Hearing that from him, as someone who hasn't played since halfway through 9th, I know it'd suck for me to consider playing my Salamanders in 10th, let alone attempt to build a gutted Imperial Guard or Tau army for the edition. Doubly so when I too am also reliant on a few Legends units to make the ensemble work. As of yet, the best I can look forward to is either sticking to Heresy, Age of Sigmar, and Old World; going back to playing 5th or even modified 7th ed; or playing a historical tabletop like Bolt Action instead. Building and painting fun stuff on the side is its own eternal reward regardless, but it would help if a model designed to be a gaming piece could remain a playable gaming piece.
3:44 It's not even that this is necessarily a Legends problem either. The fact that GW doesn't allow for Kitbashing by giving a lot of options to a captain actually criminal. I hate this modern design philosophy that they have where it's like- "Oh if it's not on the sprue, it's not an option, unless we have plans to make that a thing later." (i.e. the Captain with Jump-pack having the options for a Thunder Hammer). And then some how, magically GW introduces Legends. And I won't lie, Legends is a great idea. Sure, the models aren't supported, but at least they'll still have rules for the current edition. But then they don't include legacy options, that in the past, that people would've been able to run. Like... Making Gabe out of a regular Termi captain, and just giving him a thunder hammer. Or making Tybaros out of the same captain, and just giving him lightning claws. It's so dumb.
I mean, it makes things for new players easier. Imagine having 30 wargear options and not being knowledgeable enough in the game to know which weapons are best at what. Captains can, at least, take a variety of fancy guns and a few melee options. BA ones have some extra options too.
@@LordCrate-du8zm I blame it more on the instructions for not making it clear on what weapons the unit is actually able to take. They do include the build options, but don't ever tell the people putting the models together that "Hey, only 1 in every 5 tacticals can take a special weapon". On that, this is why many people in the hobby space say Look at the rules first before you actually start building models. Now this isn't to blame the newby. Nah. I did the same thing with my Necron Immortals. I had 3 Gauss, and 2 Teslas. But the thing was.. I only had the one set of 5 immortals at that time. I could, and did build more so that my squads where properly armed. And that's why I love Warhammer. Even when you make a mistake, you... haven't. And by the time you're getting past a full army (2000+ points), you know how to arm your load outs. But thats also the other thing... "Captains can, at least, take a variety of fancy guns and a few melee options. BA ones have some extra options too." Why not give all the options to all the captains? I am not saying that people should be able to equip a space wolf with a Iron Hands grav-gun. no. But I mean.. Why not let people WYSIWYG their captains? Eventually someone is going to want to customize their captain, turn them into their own character... the current way it set up for 10th is extremely limiting, and stops any an all creativity. I run a homebrew chapter called the Silver Hammers. They're known for their use of- guess... Thunder Hammers, with the Chapter Master wielding THEE Silver Hammer. But I can't ever put him on the tabletop because a normal Captain, not even a Terminator Captain, can take a Thunder Hammer. Only the Jump one can. but my Chapter uses very little Jump infantry. And "just homebrew the rules"... I would, but no one at my LGS wants to fight against that because "it's not official".
I'm a conversions guy and legends has been a mixed bag for me. your point about custom war gear is spot on. I've been working on a Legends+ system to try and bridge the game between fully custom models and 10th ed rule with point values to give me the freedom to bring back older models/units. Sharing it with my gaming group. But like all groups you will have the divide where some want only GW up to date rules and stick to them (and at times the meta) and your other group that wants to play with cool models have silly interactions with not such a big care for the competitive nature of the game.
Legends has nothing to do with people modelling for advantage or cheesing the competitive scene. It has everything to do with the fact that GW can't protect their copyright on a product that they don't sell minis for anymore. In order to defend their copyright from proxy makers and copycats, they have to establish they're losing money when those people sell product. If the product they're selling doesn't have a corresponding product in GW's catalogue, but there are rules to support it, it's fair game for those people to make. And GW can't stand the idea of anybody making a single dollar on their games but them, even if it's on product they don't sell anymore.
Yes, but make Shrikes have a proper identity to go with the unique name (which IMO should be the common version of the Parasite of Mortrex) and just name winged warriors what they were, winged warriors. Same thing is happening to the name as the units prior name (as after the Zerg influenced lineup redesigns, Harpy was the name of the winged warriors for a bit before it disappeared and came back as its own real unit) and the cycle should just be closed much like how winged Tyrants dont have a special name.
Now, I don't even care... I make my own kitbash for my special characters and I make their own datasheet and play a custom crusade with my son with those unique characters. So much more fun
I agree. But for some people, they don't want to play against custom data sheets because of the "nuh uh, my character has a (x) force field". And I get that... If you were say 12 years old? But no. We just want Tyberos back.
Here's the thing: I'd love to have some Krieg Grenadiers right now, to go with the army box and my infantry, but I didn't even know if they were in legends or not until I looked them up. I'm afraid to model them, or kitbash them, because they might be gone next edition, even with the Krieg refresh on the way. Legends sucks. They don't tell new hobbyists what's in it, and they don't keep things steady on there. Malakim Phoros's datasheet is gone, even though I'm just starting with Lamenters. I don't know when I'm going to get around painting them, and even if he were still around, I'd be hesitant to model him because he might disappear. It's such a fickle system and you never know what will be around or for how long.
I was buolding an arch magos prime for heresy,and i was flabbergasted at the amount of options and choices thay you could take especially if you compare them to the magos dominus from 40k. I have to assume the "only whats kn the box" mentality is the result of a business major ruining the game design team for 10th. Since it offers the best returns, it has to be the most sanitized in order to get as much money feom the plauers as possible, and that has to be done with making sure they buy their product and their product alone.
In regards equipment, I think the way GW have to approach it without backsliding into "equipment = points" is making it an actual choice. Take the humble Khorne Berserker squad. Their wargear "options" allow me to take a Evisorator and an Icon for nothing. So the "default" loadout isn't actually default as why wouldn't I take both? Well, what if I could only take one or the other? If I take the Icon, I can't have the Evis, or vice versa. Now, the equipment has meaning. Do I want these angry lads to be more killy, or more objective focused to get me rerolls? ACTUAL choice.
Completely agree with OP. Also, I am not interested in playing MS Excel with my units. I want options that have a big effect on a units role or purpose on the battlefield.
The last bastion for conversions and wargear is HH2.0, and even that is under threat from GW's "improvements" time to go back to tradition I guess. Old epic 40k, or even to 3rd-7th ed. ban formations, use 4th edition rules and have fun, or even find new games to play.
Their focus on competitive play is going to kill the hobby, not because they are losing money, but because there will be less and less "hobby" to Warhammer. With the continued cutting of wargear and the removal of lore friendly rules, new players will eventually just demand pre-assembled and pre-painted models or rather game tokens. Of course, that is just my cynical view of how things are going with GW's management of things.
It's so weird that GW isn't making weapon packs for mainline 40k like they do for HH and Necromunda. Just give more options in the rules and sell these options separately in small packs. Yes, this is a little bit greedy, but it's logical. The players and hobbyists get the opportunity to buy more parts for conversions and/or to arm units the way they need, GW can make money on selling additional options. As for FW characters, it is a pity that they are just ignored. Yes, some factions (especially Marines) had an excessive number of untis, but what do you expect if you have great warriors from a multitude of culturally and militarily different factions?
Games Workshop no longer cares about hobby or creativity. They used to encourage making your own custom rules to have fun with conversions, now they don't even have wargear choices. I'm getting back into things, but I'm only using the rules as a rough guide. For example, the old chaos cultists aren't legal anymore, because they use autoguns, a ehotgun, a flamer and a stubber. Games Workshop should bring back more varied wargear for casual play, and have a strict, dialed back set for competition. Let people have every wargear option imaginable. They could use the codex for casual play, and something like the old indexes for competitive play. Even releasing a new set every year for balancing/profit.
they are going the way of privateer press. started only caring about competitive players and flat out banned modifying the models. like if you swapped out a hammer for a sword that model is now banned.
@@flameknightdragon They're losing the fight against 3D printing and apparently want to lose, because they're making printing look more appealing. The big selling point of Warhammer was easy kitbashing because of the multipart kits. And they're killing that even before digitial kitbashing has really kicked off. They are so out of touch with their audience.
Start making themed list for 10th with legends included for flavor purposes?/ deeper unit pools and functionality 😊 maybe also throw in units from HH too . Who cares if the lists skew to unbalanced in friendly games and list building!
Its sucks the customization is just gone because there afraid that competitive players will break it and for you to use only whats in that box even the model count like khorne berserkers its 5 or 10 which restricts customization even more
now I am depressed, I love 10th edition but everytime I look at my first born homebrew chapter I am hit with the sadness of a game system ever more unwelcome for my precious little guys.
legends should not be turned into a retirement site, let the pro gamers have their rules and those who see it as a hobby have their version I would like to be able to use my old units: Techmarine on Bike Razorback with laser cannon and plasma
Stuff just disappearing is the real failure of legends. If legends did what it said on the tin it would be a mildly annoying necessary evil IE old stuff or things that rotated out of production for newer a versions of the same base idea getting to keep an at least semi up-kept version of rules. But right now stuff just kind of disappears without even getting the once an edition pass over. When 10th just started GW put out a PDF on the community tab of how to properly “convert” stuff that didn’t make it to legends into units usable on the table top. Legends even in its bare bones effectively living archive version of its self has failed to live up to its purpose.
They're a big enough conpany that there should be 2 rulesets at this point. Would love to see support for crusade enhanced 10 fold. And if they insist on keeping legends then update legends rules when doing made to order prints of the models
Boxed loadouts are cancer. It killed all the passion I had for a hobby, and I was an ork player. The realisation that nearly all of my collection is inplayable due to non existing loadouts made me nearly quit. The bizarre thing is that it happened twice. I also have a stormcast eternals collection since 1st edition, but every single model will go into legends the next year...
What would be the reasoning for stopping or moving HH models used in 40K, why would “cross game compatibility” be a bad thing? This isn’t a stab at you, I agree with what you’re saying, but from a GW point of view why? If I can use a Kratos tank in 40K as a “relic tank”, surely that means I’ll spend money on it rather than not as I don’t play HH.
I've thought similar. 40k players would for sure buy HH units of it were encouraged (not legends), previous editions prove that. As for why GW wouldn't want that I suspect 2 reasons. GW doesn't want to deal with having to account for them with points updates, balance dataslates etc. and it may strain the HH inventory if 40k players are snatching them up.
And can i say that at least regular SM. Not CSM, but regular loyalist marines. Have enough stuff already, like i get it more options is better, but it feels like a joke to the smaller armies like gsc, custodes, k sons, votaan... And i know that's not an excuse, but i can understand the frustration of having a faction that has subfaction (Space wolfes) bigger than some other stand alone armies. This stands for SM, for CSM idc, they should have more acces to heresy stuff but it's not a big deal.
@@WhatThe40kI’ve heard that GW has their rules teams all divided up and competing with each other for model sales. I think that if that’s true, it’s pretty likely that the 40k rules team is disincentivizing the use of 30k models to not give their internal competition sales
In my country, legends=you don't get to play it. In w40k, AoS etc. And it is great for those that can , both thumbs up for you. But for me and people here stuff getting legend, sometimes stuff that is 5-6 years old , is not fun.
Legends servers as a way to shut up players who were pissed their armys would be made unusable by them forcing primaris marines to force us to buy new armies, that is it there is literally no other reason anyone who believes different is nieve
@@MrDekasOne I mean.. For Resin, and metal things sure... but the plastic ones take ages to make, upwards of 1 to 2 years. You yourself are naive into thinking that any company would go through all that, when that same company plans for new models in about the same amount of time. But you can't even spell naive right. "neive". I think you need to go back to school brother. Maybe take some courses in engineering? Because good lord making molds is not as simple as "remaking them".
Legends is also stupid from another angle. You have Tournament Legal Datasheets of Units, that are just not sold by GW anymore. Stuff like the Lokhust Lord, Captain Sicarius or weirdly enough the Lord of Contagion. I also dislike the Legends locking of Heresy era Units, but atleast they have a 10th edition datasheet. (If the Mechanicum Battlegroup had at the very least legends rules, I may have even considered buying one)
I feel like with gw making units locked behind upgrade sprews already (deathwing terminators needing the dark angels sprew for the plasma gun for example) they could easily do a weapons sprew to add back stuff like terminator captains with thunder hammers, they make more money and we get back options for units we already have used before
DW terminators don’t necessarily _need_ the plasma cannon, that’s just optional wargear. It’s also not very good when compared to the other Terminator heavy weapons. Better than the flamer by a mile but can’t match the infantry shredding power of the Assault Cannon or the raw damage potential of the Cyclone launcher. Sits in an uncomfortable middle ground where it's not particularly good at any one thing, "jack of all trades, but master of none".
@@LordCrate-du8zm my point was more that if for whatever reason you wanted to use them for your terminators you have to buy a separate sprew for a weapon option, if that option is actually good is an entire different story.
The juxtapositions of conflicting ideals in this community never ceases to amaze me. Legends was created to reduce bloat, redundancy, and to phase out sub par products. As for WYSIWYG and box locking; find better opponents? Beyond the highest level of competitive play; no one should care if you modeled your termie captain with a hammer and if they do; they're not worth playing. Now onto the given "legacy" models (such as the badab commanders); are we really concerned about losing data sheets in the faction that has over 40% of the games TOTAL data sheets? I'm at a loss as to what they would do here: "rules and codexes take too long to come out! We're halfway through the edition and over half the armies dont have codexes!" Against "why don't they take the time to make good rules for the finecast character that came out twenty years ago so that
Whilst I do agree with your points, I feel like the issue you are presenting is aimed at a very specific group of individuals, as yes, some rules no longer exist, the number of people who would use legends data sheets while also being willing to only confine to games workshop current rules feels very slim. I'm personally of the belief that the true fun of Warhammer is being able to forge your own narrative, making your own things, and yes while gw hasn't given us the ability to forge characters as we wish because of box locking, if you are already in a situation where legends is being used, I doubt they would be against letting a captain use a thunder hammer. I myself love the idea of making rules that shouldn't make sense, is there any rules for a psychic religious terminator ancient who leads his squad, bringing his fallen brothers back from deaths door to fight on in the name of the god emperor while smashing heretical scum with a force flail? No Will that stop me making him and making custom rules? Hell no! Warhammer, at its core, is a hobby, and how we choose to play the hobby is up to us, rather it be the most sweaty of mini maxing try hards who goes to LVO to win or the local guy who runs all infantry guard built for melee, we should make the game what we want. And before someone says balance will be a issue, legends rules are not balanced with current rules. So yeah, Yolo my guys, gals and non-binary pals, make your dreams, make your memes, but most importantly, make what makes you happy
Idk how to edit lol, but I also realised after posting that for what you wanted to do your points were even more valid, as you are aiming to create lists from which you can share and have be applicable to everyone, so I apologise in my lapse of judgement in recalling that aspect of your take
Tbh you could use Captain Lysander datasheet and use a Gabriel Angelos model, it works 5 attacks hit on 2+STRENGTH 10 ap 3 flat 3damage whit devwounds Gives - 1 to wounds roles for enemy unit when attacking, At anny phase you con give him a 2+invul and he gives +1 OC at every terminator in your army
5:23 pretty rich comming from a guy with a Primaris Avatar... I play 5th edition, i know a guy that only play 3rd edition, you don't have to play the subquality 41K, you can remain faithful to 40K
I don't see how my avatar being Primaris, takes away from the point being made. I think its great that you and those in your playgroup are content in playing older editions. TBH I wish it were a more common thing. However in my play group and many others, the community wants to play what is 'current'. The points I raise in this video are in regards to how GW is currently handling their rules management.
@@WhatThe40k Yes but Primaris are a text book exemple of putting priority on new sales rather than respecting the lore and canon. It's a not a new practice from GW Forcing new models in books revolving stories around them to boost sales and forgetting about perviously issued models.
It all died with the introduction of Primaris. Whether people want to admit it or not. Primaris and the ‘new 40K’ (8th edition onwards). GW have drastically changed how they do things now which is why the game has gone to shit and we’re getting a new edition every few years. I gave up a while ago after being shafted enough times so say enough is enough. Also, would a ‘modern’ Blood Ravens chapter still have an unusual amount of librarians? If we go by the whole “they’re all Primaris now”, then aren’t they all just watered down Ultramarines? I’m sure there will be some patch in the lore like with Blood Angles where they go “oh look, they still magically suffer from the black rage” etc.
I don't think it has anything to do with Primaris. Primaris may be a symptom, sure... But it really didn't start with, or because of Primaris. The game since 8 has been becoming more, and more simpler, and while 9th had it's problems, it itself was a simplified version of 8th. And 8th was a total rewrite of 7th.
@@LinkiePup true its been a problem for a long while and primaris was a major sympton. one the problems i dare say was going public(stocks). because now you have a ton of morons running GW into the ground. yes they are making a ton of money with petty tricks but they will lose out in the long run. after all they arent building up the company. all these years and money and they finally announce a new factory. lol GWs going to die lets hope no one buys them out so warhammer can stay in the community rather than in a coporation.
I'm savy ❤. I have an artel w sculpt that's way better than the original. I printed two Bladeguard veteran captains. These 3 I proxy as marneus calgar with his victrix.
I didn't know the Chaos Lord couldn't use bolt pistols. That is wild.
Box locking is one of the biggest poisons in 40K. Where in the past creativity and effort were rewarded now you're punished for even daring to use bits from standard infantry on characters.
Be honest, would you even _want_ to use bolt pistols on a Lord?
@@LordCrate-du8zm If points for wargear would still be option then yes
@@dawidkazmierczak7283 Okay, but _why?_ Like, who in their right mind would take a plain-ass Praetor with a bolt pistol and chainsword in Horus Heresy?
@@LordCrate-du8zm Lore-players :)
@@LordCrate-du8zm Ahriman uses common Inferno Bolt Pistol so I see no reason why Chaos Lord would not use Bolt Pistol
box locking sucks. kitbashing is or was a fun creative part of the hobby. but I hope that 2025 will be a cool year for everybody.
Kitbashing is still really easy. Sure, some models can’t kitbash well, but a lot of basic infantry can be blinged up into characters.
Gw are trying to kill kitbashing with monopose and other sly tactics
40kids, Fantasissies, and AOSimps kneel to the Blood Bowl GOD
I kitbash how i want and play how my group wants. OPR rekindled the hobby for us all to what matters. No meta chasing, no cashcow, just the best time with your friends
Same here. We alternate between totally casual 40K games with missions from old narrative expansions like Vigilus from 8th, or OPR for smaller scale stuff or when using non-40K factions like Saurian Starhost. We're 5 games into a great campaign and having more fun than I've had in years.
It's a sad state of affairs all around, really.
My mentor and gaming buddy - a tabletop veteran of some 30 years or so - had quite a bit to say about 10th ed just from a listbuilding perspective, and none of it was good. A Blood Axes army of kommandos, stormboys, and flash gitz? Can't field them legally. A World Eaters army he double-dipped with for 40k and Horus Heresy? Can't be played as either World Eaters or CSM. Word Bearers (also double-dipping)? Same thing.
He pretty much deleted the listbuilding app right then and there, either because unit options he'd need were missing or because "out of the box" rules writing says you can't have both a plasma pistol and power sword on a unit champion, or more than one of the same special weapon in a squad of 10.
Hearing that from him, as someone who hasn't played since halfway through 9th, I know it'd suck for me to consider playing my Salamanders in 10th, let alone attempt to build a gutted Imperial Guard or Tau army for the edition. Doubly so when I too am also reliant on a few Legends units to make the ensemble work.
As of yet, the best I can look forward to is either sticking to Heresy, Age of Sigmar, and Old World; going back to playing 5th or even modified 7th ed; or playing a historical tabletop like Bolt Action instead. Building and painting fun stuff on the side is its own eternal reward regardless, but it would help if a model designed to be a gaming piece could remain a playable gaming piece.
3:44 It's not even that this is necessarily a Legends problem either.
The fact that GW doesn't allow for Kitbashing by giving a lot of options to a captain actually criminal.
I hate this modern design philosophy that they have where it's like- "Oh if it's not on the sprue, it's not an option, unless we have plans to make that a thing later." (i.e. the Captain with Jump-pack having the options for a Thunder Hammer).
And then some how, magically GW introduces Legends. And I won't lie, Legends is a great idea. Sure, the models aren't supported, but at least they'll still have rules for the current edition. But then they don't include legacy options, that in the past, that people would've been able to run.
Like... Making Gabe out of a regular Termi captain, and just giving him a thunder hammer. Or making Tybaros out of the same captain, and just giving him lightning claws.
It's so dumb.
I mean, it makes things for new players easier. Imagine having 30 wargear options and not being knowledgeable enough in the game to know which weapons are best at what. Captains can, at least, take a variety of fancy guns and a few melee options. BA ones have some extra options too.
@@LordCrate-du8zm I blame it more on the instructions for not making it clear on what weapons the unit is actually able to take.
They do include the build options, but don't ever tell the people putting the models together that "Hey, only 1 in every 5 tacticals can take a special weapon". On that, this is why many people in the hobby space say Look at the rules first before you actually start building models.
Now this isn't to blame the newby. Nah. I did the same thing with my Necron Immortals. I had 3 Gauss, and 2 Teslas.
But the thing was.. I only had the one set of 5 immortals at that time. I could, and did build more so that my squads where properly armed.
And that's why I love Warhammer. Even when you make a mistake, you... haven't. And by the time you're getting past a full army (2000+ points), you know how to arm your load outs.
But thats also the other thing... "Captains can, at least, take a variety of fancy guns and a few melee options. BA ones have some extra options too." Why not give all the options to all the captains? I am not saying that people should be able to equip a space wolf with a Iron Hands grav-gun. no. But I mean.. Why not let people WYSIWYG their captains? Eventually someone is going to want to customize their captain, turn them into their own character... the current way it set up for 10th is extremely limiting, and stops any an all creativity.
I run a homebrew chapter called the Silver Hammers. They're known for their use of- guess... Thunder Hammers, with the Chapter Master wielding THEE Silver Hammer. But I can't ever put him on the tabletop because a normal Captain, not even a Terminator Captain, can take a Thunder Hammer. Only the Jump one can. but my Chapter uses very little Jump infantry. And "just homebrew the rules"... I would, but no one at my LGS wants to fight against that because "it's not official".
@@LinkiePup I completely agree with this. I'm really sorry to hear about your LGS.
heard the phrase 'T-Sport' and shivered. So glad you said it was cringe
There is no way I'm cutting off pistols or not using an apothecary on a bike.
I'm a conversions guy and legends has been a mixed bag for me. your point about custom war gear is spot on. I've been working on a Legends+ system to try and bridge the game between fully custom models and 10th ed rule with point values to give me the freedom to bring back older models/units. Sharing it with my gaming group. But like all groups you will have the divide where some want only GW up to date rules and stick to them (and at times the meta) and your other group that wants to play with cool models have silly interactions with not such a big care for the competitive nature of the game.
Legends has nothing to do with people modelling for advantage or cheesing the competitive scene. It has everything to do with the fact that GW can't protect their copyright on a product that they don't sell minis for anymore. In order to defend their copyright from proxy makers and copycats, they have to establish they're losing money when those people sell product. If the product they're selling doesn't have a corresponding product in GW's catalogue, but there are rules to support it, it's fair game for those people to make. And GW can't stand the idea of anybody making a single dollar on their games but them, even if it's on product they don't sell anymore.
I wish Tyranids still had shrikes
Yes, but make Shrikes have a proper identity to go with the unique name (which IMO should be the common version of the Parasite of Mortrex) and just name winged warriors what they were, winged warriors. Same thing is happening to the name as the units prior name (as after the Zerg influenced lineup redesigns, Harpy was the name of the winged warriors for a bit before it disappeared and came back as its own real unit) and the cycle should just be closed much like how winged Tyrants dont have a special name.
Now, I don't even care... I make my own kitbash for my special characters and I make their own datasheet and play a custom crusade with my son with those unique characters. So much more fun
Preach brother 🗣️🗣️🗣️
I agree.
But for some people, they don't want to play against custom data sheets because of the "nuh uh, my character has a (x) force field". And I get that... If you were say 12 years old?
But no. We just want Tyberos back.
@LinkiePup it's the custom datasheet or I say it's 'that guy' that have a datasheet...
Here's the thing: I'd love to have some Krieg Grenadiers right now, to go with the army box and my infantry, but I didn't even know if they were in legends or not until I looked them up. I'm afraid to model them, or kitbash them, because they might be gone next edition, even with the Krieg refresh on the way. Legends sucks. They don't tell new hobbyists what's in it, and they don't keep things steady on there. Malakim Phoros's datasheet is gone, even though I'm just starting with Lamenters. I don't know when I'm going to get around painting them, and even if he were still around, I'd be hesitant to model him because he might disappear. It's such a fickle system and you never know what will be around or for how long.
I was buolding an arch magos prime for heresy,and i was flabbergasted at the amount of options and choices thay you could take especially if you compare them to the magos dominus from 40k. I have to assume the "only whats kn the box" mentality is the result of a business major ruining the game design team for 10th. Since it offers the best returns, it has to be the most sanitized in order to get as much money feom the plauers as possible, and that has to be done with making sure they buy their product and their product alone.
In regards equipment, I think the way GW have to approach it without backsliding into "equipment = points" is making it an actual choice. Take the humble Khorne Berserker squad. Their wargear "options" allow me to take a Evisorator and an Icon for nothing. So the "default" loadout isn't actually default as why wouldn't I take both? Well, what if I could only take one or the other? If I take the Icon, I can't have the Evis, or vice versa. Now, the equipment has meaning. Do I want these angry lads to be more killy, or more objective focused to get me rerolls? ACTUAL choice.
Completely agree with OP.
Also, I am not interested in playing MS Excel with my units. I want options that have a big effect on a units role or purpose on the battlefield.
The last bastion for conversions and wargear is HH2.0, and even that is under threat from GW's "improvements"
time to go back to tradition I guess. Old epic 40k, or even to 3rd-7th ed. ban formations, use 4th edition rules and have fun, or even find new games to play.
Their focus on competitive play is going to kill the hobby, not because they are losing money, but because there will be less and less "hobby" to Warhammer. With the continued cutting of wargear and the removal of lore friendly rules, new players will eventually just demand pre-assembled and pre-painted models or rather game tokens.
Of course, that is just my cynical view of how things are going with GW's management of things.
you can see that by the amount of people who started their hobby buy buying painted minis from ebay and commision painters after space marine came out
It's so weird that GW isn't making weapon packs for mainline 40k like they do for HH and Necromunda. Just give more options in the rules and sell these options separately in small packs. Yes, this is a little bit greedy, but it's logical. The players and hobbyists get the opportunity to buy more parts for conversions and/or to arm units the way they need, GW can make money on selling additional options.
As for FW characters, it is a pity that they are just ignored. Yes, some factions (especially Marines) had an excessive number of untis, but what do you expect if you have great warriors from a multitude of culturally and militarily different factions?
Games Workshop no longer cares about hobby or creativity. They used to encourage making your own custom rules to have fun with conversions, now they don't even have wargear choices. I'm getting back into things, but I'm only using the rules as a rough guide. For example, the old chaos cultists aren't legal anymore, because they use autoguns, a ehotgun, a flamer and a stubber.
Games Workshop should bring back more varied wargear for casual play, and have a strict, dialed back set for competition. Let people have every wargear option imaginable. They could use the codex for casual play, and something like the old indexes for competitive play. Even releasing a new set every year for balancing/profit.
they are going the way of privateer press. started only caring about competitive players and flat out banned modifying the models. like if you swapped out a hammer for a sword that model is now banned.
@@flameknightdragon They're losing the fight against 3D printing and apparently want to lose, because they're making printing look more appealing. The big selling point of Warhammer was easy kitbashing because of the multipart kits. And they're killing that even before digitial kitbashing has really kicked off. They are so out of touch with their audience.
Start making themed list for 10th with legends included for flavor purposes?/ deeper unit pools and functionality 😊 maybe also throw in units from HH too . Who cares if the lists skew to unbalanced in friendly games and list building!
Exactly! :D
Same, I will not have my heresy dreadnoughts be left behind!
Its sucks the customization is just gone because there afraid that competitive players will break it and for you to use only whats in that box even the model count like khorne berserkers its 5 or 10 which restricts customization even more
now I am depressed, I love 10th edition but everytime I look at my first born homebrew chapter I am hit with the sadness of a game system ever more unwelcome for my precious little guys.
legends should not be turned into a retirement site, let the pro gamers have their rules and those who see it as a hobby have their version
I would like to be able to use my old units:
Techmarine on Bike
Razorback with laser cannon and plasma
GW is wrong about how they run their business in general
Was that a Gabriel Angelos, figure on the thumbnail??
Indeed!
Stuff just disappearing is the real failure of legends. If legends did what it said on the tin it would be a mildly annoying necessary evil IE old stuff or things that rotated out of production for newer a versions of the same base idea getting to keep an at least semi up-kept version of rules.
But right now stuff just kind of disappears without even getting the once an edition pass over. When 10th just started GW put out a PDF on the community tab of how to properly “convert” stuff that didn’t make it to legends into units usable on the table top. Legends even in its bare bones effectively living archive version of its self has failed to live up to its purpose.
They're a big enough conpany that there should be 2 rulesets at this point. Would love to see support for crusade enhanced 10 fold. And if they insist on keeping legends then update legends rules when doing made to order prints of the models
Boxed loadouts are cancer. It killed all the passion I had for a hobby, and I was an ork player. The realisation that nearly all of my collection is inplayable due to non existing loadouts made me nearly quit.
The bizarre thing is that it happened twice. I also have a stormcast eternals collection since 1st edition, but every single model will go into legends the next year...
What would be the reasoning for stopping or moving HH models used in 40K, why would “cross game compatibility” be a bad thing?
This isn’t a stab at you, I agree with what you’re saying, but from a GW point of view why? If I can use a Kratos tank in 40K as a “relic tank”, surely that means I’ll spend money on it rather than not as I don’t play HH.
I've thought similar. 40k players would for sure buy HH units of it were encouraged (not legends), previous editions prove that. As for why GW wouldn't want that I suspect 2 reasons. GW doesn't want to deal with having to account for them with points updates, balance dataslates etc. and it may strain the HH inventory if 40k players are snatching them up.
And can i say that at least regular SM.
Not CSM, but regular loyalist marines.
Have enough stuff already, like i get it more options is better, but it feels like a joke to the smaller armies like gsc, custodes, k sons, votaan...
And i know that's not an excuse, but i can understand the frustration of having a faction that has subfaction (Space wolfes) bigger than some other stand alone armies.
This stands for SM, for CSM idc, they should have more acces to heresy stuff but it's not a big deal.
@ yeah, I’m a DA and Tau player, but if someone playing CSM or any of the chaos factions rocked up with a HH era model, that would be cool!
because if you want to play both games you need 2 armies same reason they are trying to get rid of daemons
@@WhatThe40kI’ve heard that GW has their rules teams all divided up and competing with each other for model sales. I think that if that’s true, it’s pretty likely that the 40k rules team is disincentivizing the use of 30k models to not give their internal competition sales
i agree with all you said but honnestly i do not like or respect gws rule writing enough to not homebrew with my group.
*Cries in chaos player*
James workshop has lied to us again
meanwhile in aos it is exactly that. or at least a closer attempt at it since we got full on "codexes" for the 2 armies that got legended for free
In my country, legends=you don't get to play it. In w40k, AoS etc. And it is great for those that can , both thumbs up for you. But for me and people here stuff getting legend, sometimes stuff that is 5-6 years old , is not fun.
Legends servers as a way to shut up players who were pissed their armys would be made unusable by them forcing primaris marines to force us to buy new armies, that is it there is literally no other reason anyone who believes different is nieve
That’s not entirely true. Molds also slowly break over time, so older kits going to legends also means GW can’t make them anymore.
@LordCrate-du8zm Yeah, because Gw can't just remake a mould, are you really this neive
@@MrDekasOne I mean.. For Resin, and metal things sure... but the plastic ones take ages to make, upwards of 1 to 2 years.
You yourself are naive into thinking that any company would go through all that, when that same company plans for new models in about the same amount of time.
But you can't even spell naive right. "neive". I think you need to go back to school brother. Maybe take some courses in engineering? Because good lord making molds is not as simple as "remaking them".
Legends is also stupid from another angle. You have Tournament Legal Datasheets of Units, that are just not sold by GW anymore. Stuff like the Lokhust Lord, Captain Sicarius or weirdly enough the Lord of Contagion.
I also dislike the Legends locking of Heresy era Units, but atleast they have a 10th edition datasheet. (If the Mechanicum Battlegroup had at the very least legends rules, I may have even considered buying one)
Just play Rogue Trader 100x better
I feel like with gw making units locked behind upgrade sprews already (deathwing terminators needing the dark angels sprew for the plasma gun for example) they could easily do a weapons sprew to add back stuff like terminator captains with thunder hammers, they make more money and we get back options for units we already have used before
DW terminators don’t necessarily _need_ the plasma cannon, that’s just optional wargear. It’s also not very good when compared to the other Terminator heavy weapons. Better than the flamer by a mile but can’t match the infantry shredding power of the Assault Cannon or the raw damage potential of the Cyclone launcher. Sits in an uncomfortable middle ground where it's not particularly good at any one thing, "jack of all trades, but master of none".
Completely agree with the thunder hammer statement though. It’s so dumb, Captains should be able to bring that kind of gear.
The deathwatch terminators can use 3 special weapons, so that is an option too. Really annoying though.
@@LordCrate-du8zm my point was more that if for whatever reason you wanted to use them for your terminators you have to buy a separate sprew for a weapon option, if that option is actually good is an entire different story.
The juxtapositions of conflicting ideals in this community never ceases to amaze me. Legends was created to reduce bloat, redundancy, and to phase out sub par products. As for WYSIWYG and box locking; find better opponents? Beyond the highest level of competitive play; no one should care if you modeled your termie captain with a hammer and if they do; they're not worth playing. Now onto the given "legacy" models (such as the badab commanders); are we really concerned about losing data sheets in the faction that has over 40% of the games TOTAL data sheets? I'm at a loss as to what they would do here: "rules and codexes take too long to come out! We're halfway through the edition and over half the armies dont have codexes!" Against "why don't they take the time to make good rules for the finecast character that came out twenty years ago so that
Whilst I do agree with your points, I feel like the issue you are presenting is aimed at a very specific group of individuals, as yes, some rules no longer exist, the number of people who would use legends data sheets while also being willing to only confine to games workshop current rules feels very slim. I'm personally of the belief that the true fun of Warhammer is being able to forge your own narrative, making your own things, and yes while gw hasn't given us the ability to forge characters as we wish because of box locking, if you are already in a situation where legends is being used, I doubt they would be against letting a captain use a thunder hammer. I myself love the idea of making rules that shouldn't make sense, is there any rules for a psychic religious terminator ancient who leads his squad, bringing his fallen brothers back from deaths door to fight on in the name of the god emperor while smashing heretical scum with a force flail? No
Will that stop me making him and making custom rules? Hell no!
Warhammer, at its core, is a hobby, and how we choose to play the hobby is up to us, rather it be the most sweaty of mini maxing try hards who goes to LVO to win or the local guy who runs all infantry guard built for melee, we should make the game what we want. And before someone says balance will be a issue, legends rules are not balanced with current rules.
So yeah, Yolo my guys, gals and non-binary pals, make your dreams, make your memes, but most importantly, make what makes you happy
Idk how to edit lol, but I also realised after posting that for what you wanted to do your points were even more valid, as you are aiming to create lists from which you can share and have be applicable to everyone, so I apologise in my lapse of judgement in recalling that aspect of your take
Tbh you could use Captain Lysander datasheet and use a Gabriel Angelos model, it works
5 attacks hit on 2+STRENGTH 10 ap 3 flat 3damage whit devwounds
Gives - 1 to wounds roles for enemy unit when attacking,
At anny phase you con give him a 2+invul and he gives +1 OC at every terminator in your army
The only issue is the smaller base, but I don’t think people will care.
@Kingofdragons117 yeah exactly and if you run into someon that do car about it well, you ran into THAT GUY.
5:23 pretty rich comming from a guy with a Primaris Avatar...
I play 5th edition, i know a guy that only play 3rd edition, you don't have to play the subquality 41K, you can remain faithful to 40K
I don't see how my avatar being Primaris, takes away from the point being made.
I think its great that you and those in your playgroup are content in playing older editions. TBH I wish it were a more common thing. However in my play group and many others, the community wants to play what is 'current'. The points I raise in this video are in regards to how GW is currently handling their rules management.
@@WhatThe40k Yes but Primaris are a text book exemple of putting priority on new sales rather than respecting the lore and canon.
It's a not a new practice from GW Forcing new models in books revolving stories around them to boost sales and forgetting about perviously issued models.
It all died with the introduction of Primaris. Whether people want to admit it or not. Primaris and the ‘new 40K’ (8th edition onwards). GW have drastically changed how they do things now which is why the game has gone to shit and we’re getting a new edition every few years. I gave up a while ago after being shafted enough times so say enough is enough.
Also, would a ‘modern’ Blood Ravens chapter still have an unusual amount of librarians? If we go by the whole “they’re all Primaris now”, then aren’t they all just watered down Ultramarines? I’m sure there will be some patch in the lore like with Blood Angles where they go “oh look, they still magically suffer from the black rage” etc.
I don't think it has anything to do with Primaris.
Primaris may be a symptom, sure... But it really didn't start with, or because of Primaris.
The game since 8 has been becoming more, and more simpler, and while 9th had it's problems, it itself was a simplified version of 8th. And 8th was a total rewrite of 7th.
Also, Primaris Diane get rid of the gene flaws.... so yeah blood angels primaris still wanna suck blood.
@@LinkiePup true its been a problem for a long while and primaris was a major sympton.
one the problems i dare say was going public(stocks). because now you have a ton of morons running GW into the ground. yes they are making a ton of money with petty tricks but they will lose out in the long run. after all they arent building up the company. all these years and money and they finally announce a new factory. lol GWs going to die lets hope no one buys them out so warhammer can stay in the community rather than in a coporation.
I'm savy ❤. I have an artel w sculpt that's way better than the original. I printed two Bladeguard veteran captains. These 3 I proxy as marneus calgar with his victrix.