Personally, I have edition fatigue. Also, the obsolescence and constant price increases are slowly driving from the hobby. I haven’t bought a model in over a year now. And I used to be a regular customer with multiple factions. I see new models over the last year and a half and I also just don’t seem to have excitement and I’ve been in this hobby since 91. So they’ve really just kind of hit a point with me. I guess I am just at the end of my rope model and pricing increases
A new edition would be exciting if there was 5-7 years between editions and all codices came out digital at launch and the physical "codex" is just an art and lore book
@@wolfmanhcc Perhaps if those rules wouldn't be obsolete after three months due to all the balance changes. Look at 40k 10th edition right now - the core rules changes document that came out recently is almost as long as the core rules themselves, and they don't release a new revised core rules document. At that point, the book is functionally useless from a rules perspective.
@@wolfmanhcc All very good points that have nothing to do with my comment, and completely contradicts the fact that you just replied to someone prefering the printed books to be lore and art books by saying "I prefer the books to have rules".
I feel like if GW went all in on electronic rules then game stores wouldn’t be stuck with out of date codexes and such. If not, they should have to accept returns within a year like regular book sellers to mitigate the risk of selling books with expiration dates. Me, I’m tired of having old codexes that are just glossy recycling. I collect miniatures, not books and the rules are generally out of date a month after you buy them anyway. We’re all just buying the code, so just sell the code.
I completely agree, with the rapid changes in rules, printing books that are made obsolete sometimes even immediately (see Votann 1.0) are just a terrible business model. Rules should be free or be included with their WH+ Sub, and most gamers would probably spend the money they saved on rulebooks on more miniatures anyways.
At the same time, GW's markup on physical books probably makes up a sizable portion of their profit. It's also something that they can manufacture outside of the UK and ship directly to international distribution centers, thereby skipping post-Brexit tariffs. I agree it's an outdated model, but I also can't blame them for still doing it if it makes them money.
I wouldn’t mind it if the codex became a lore and art book, maybe with a short campaign to run in the back. As it currently stands, that is all I want a codex for, and I feel like they are ripping me off by charging me to use the app and buy the codex, only to have the codex be out of date before it arrives.
Just doing everything online has a huge drawback : it's more difficult to sell a game with non physical rules in retail store. Also, a lot of people on the internet don't get it, but not all people especially like to play miniature wargames with their rules on the phone. Especially old people like me (my sight isn't that good to read everything on a small screen).
Editions need to be much longer. Not to even speak to the poor players who get their codex three months before a new one, but more time with an edition allows GW to fine tune the rules. They can always make new box sets and books WITHOUT a new edition. It's just a cheap marketing thing that works. People are already talking about 11th, we do not get enough time with them.
Agree completely, I think 5 years between editions would be fine, especially if they got all the codexes/battletomes out in about two years. With AoS, they already have a means of shaking up the meta, and encouraging new sales, with the general’s handbooks.
Don't play GW games. Problem kicked to death and buried in a shallow grave. 🤣 Seriously, though, I finally transitioned completely to non-GW minis and rulesets, and my word, what a difference it makes. Mantic, OPR, Stargrave, Wargames Atlantic, Bolt Action... I just feel like I'm respected as a customer, not abused as an addict.
I know right? TOW wasn't even featured in the 500th issue of White Dwarf. Disgraceful. Meanwhile AOS gets all the love, from sculpts to special events.
I think the ludicrous price of old models and constant lack of availability of the books and cards killed TOW. I wasn't even able to read a rulebook or play a game for 4 or 5 months after the release, & it was secondhand. This also hurts my interest in AOS 4 because I'm just starting learning a complicated game that I should be 6 months into. I also recently have been playing warcry here and there so a new "small" game like spearhead is just more..too much. AOS 3 just finished and gets immediately binned and the cities and some other things I've recently got I will barely use. I feel like there's a firehouse of releases blasting me and I can't keep up. My solution was to just take a step back and concentrate on painting.
@@christopherkruse1370 The old world is actually pretty accessible at the moment in terms of cost. Big models cost a lot of points (a dragon plus Lord character and you have 800+ points that are actually very scary) and stuff like the Bretonnian starter set gives you a very good base to start playing at a good level. Then again, not all factions are created equal, so you can spend quite a lot (or not, tOW community is not picky about official models so you can proxy all your army for a fraction of what it would cost if it was all GW). As for the rules, I have all the books but you can easily find all of them online for free (and with much more rational editing/FAQ included).
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 eh, it is very similar to what they did to WHFB back in the day BUT there are things that give me hope. People are playing tOW (or rather never stopped with 9th age and WAP) the community is actually very alive and more importantly GW made a couple decisions that let me expect support similar to what they are giving Necromunda (BoC passed to tOW and dwarves taken from Cities of Sigmar presumably to be added to tOW). Anyway, we'll see what happens when AoS 4th ed hype will be over.
There's a name for what happens to the old product, in particular, the rules sets: Osborne Effect. I had to clearance out any rules books at below cost, since the new rules were already on the books. Models not so much, but all media/rulebooks were wrecked
Also, right now, Canadian Economy is far from good and that's not even counting how much we pay for shipping, customs, and exchange rate. It's hard enough to found an apartment in most provinces right now, people don't have a lot of money for hobbying or go for cheaper options if they can.
It's one of those, I was in the hobby back in 3rd edition 40K, did 9 months as a GW employee, and it was a weird thing to hear about how often there are new editions. Like you had an edition, and different versions of the starter box, where it seemed like less models, smaller models, and the only improvement was the small rulebooks. I came back at the start of 10th edition, and I think I'm already over it. Knowing two years from now the orks are going to change means I can get into it whenever, there is no rush.
Considering they put heresy up there with age of sigmar and 40k on the website (but without the support) and the rumors that keep going around, 30k might be getting a new edition next year, possibly HH 2.5. Which would enable them to sell you your army books again. As much as 2.0 has problems, I kind of don't like that I have paid 60 dollars for books I have used twice. Hoping I'm wrong and they just give us an actual FAQ for the core rules instead.
I think 3 years is too short a cycle for new editions. The sheer amount of data slate/war scroll errata and rules updates for AoS 3rd and 40k 10th really show these games aren't tested enough. They feel like the launch is the "open beta test" for the game. You can have day one updates for video games, but physical games with models and printed components can't be constantly updated.
When Leviathan was released my local B&M put the 9e Codex books and cards on clearance. Unfortunately someone bought every Codex before I got there but I bought all of the card packs for $1/each for my collection. They’ve done the same for 4e AoS and this time I was lucky enough to get the Stormcast Eternals, Skaven, Slaves to Darkness, Ossiarch Bonereapers, and Orruk battletomes for $10 each. ‘Outdated’ definitely does not mean ‘worthless’ to me. Even though they’re only getting $10 instead of the $60 that they charged when it was 9e 40K and 3e AoS that’s still better than nothing; I’m not sure if GW will let retailers send the unsold books back to them for any credit.
From my point of view, there’s just far too much churn in both 40k and AoS. The reset in 40k 10th really felt like change, just for the sake of change, not any major improvement in the system.
I had a lot of STE and BOC and when they announced my models were going to be removed from the game I lost all love for AOS, because I started with 1st Ed and I have the boat anchor rule book for the last 2 editions.I am not going to re-base my entire BOC army after wasting hours making sure every single model down to the Ungors was based. I kinda did not like the last two 40k Editions and I play armies in that are always in a bad place there like Chaos. I switched to HH mostly to avoid having to buy a new book every 3 years. But no one plays that around here so I'm moving towards kitbashing my excess AOS Stormcast into Trench Crusade models. I'm kinda of burnt out on GW after being really strong into them for the last 8 years. I bought lots of games like Killteam that I spent a ton on and that got a new edition less than a year later. Maybe because I'm older but I hate storing piles of 60 dollar out of edition hardcover books.
I package food stuffs in Sweden. I can only tell about Sweden ofcourse but people don't buy nearly asmuch food right now, like alot less. People are struggling man.. GW ontop of that just asking for more money, giving less value and stuff as you said have a self life. I now try as buy as little gw stuff as i can to be able to play. And soon i will start playing other games instead with fair prices and give more value.
Thanks for the honest video. It's really insightful to hear your perspective on version updates. Personally, I like scheduled releases of new versions of the system I'm playing. By knowing the remaining lifetime of a version, I have an idea of what to try while it's still alive. But even as a fan of AOS, GW's marketing engine took entirely too long to "hype" the new version. All the information was scattered, which means that I didn't pay attention for the last month, only checking in when my army received a faction focus, which I read half-heartedly. My point is that the marketing engine isn't getting new players' attention if it can't keep a fan's attention, so a failure on GW's part. On top of that, while we were waiting for the rules to drop, content creators had full access to the rules, which is a trend that is starting to annoy me. I don't like being a paying customer and being the last to know. They are not given content creators early access for feedback but to promote the new version. I'll write the marketing campaign off as a bad decision on GW's side. But their commitment to creating prints with rules that are outdated after three months is unfair to newcomers and I wish they would cease that side of the business. I read online comments where new players didn't want to start playing with AOS version 4.0 because of the $60 entry fee for rule books, before buying a piece of plastic. It was a wrong assumption, but if you can't make it clear that the rules are free after months of marketing the message is too vague.
GW should take those books back from you guys at cost and just eat it. You should not have to care about unsold books, if you was a Barnes & Nobels you'd just send those books back to the publisher.
I agree with the wait and see mode, it's been how many months of not knowing what date it comes out? I want a date lol. I'm also into other hobbies right now, I'd like to play AoS for the first time when 4.0 drops but I wasn't able to get into 40k 10th edition so fingers crossed. I may just enjoy the painting and modeling part of the hobby.
Not sure if it is everywhere , but here new editions leave stores with ton of starter boxes they can't sell, but have to order from GW, if they want to order stuff they want. And it gets REALLY bad (store dead) , if GW makes it so the store has to order stuff that will not sell. Want the HH tanks, dreadnoughts etc ? Have to order the starters . And then as a bonus gw sends just the starters. People buy stuff online or 3d print, because they want to play now and not in 2-9 months . So even if GW does send the 2-3 months ago hot item, they may not sell. Especialy if gw pulls a "you can play with all HH stuff in w40k ...upps we made it legends". Then there is other crazy stuff. AoS after the 4th purge. People stopped buying stuff from stores, because thry fear their Slayers or sea elves may get a similar treatment.
Yeah, Dungeons and Discourse was talking about how WotC was reading from the Video Game publisher's playbook with the same early tease and announcement of pre-order exclusives. And it seems GW is looking over their shoulder pushing the new edition instead of supporting the current edition. I am glad that they don't pay much attention to Blood Bowl. But I guess they do the new releases around Christmas time. So we'll see what that looks like.
Personally speaking, the incredibly short edition cycle of most GW games these days is why I no longer buy into said editions. I can’t be bothered to buy and learn a new rule set and new codex every three years, and in my opinion it’s also a huge impediment to even playing in the first place. As a very slow painter, there’s a very good chance that I’ll never be able to paint up an army in the time that a new edition will roll up. I’ll be sticking to an older edition of 40k from now on with my small group of friends, and am not even bothering with Age of Sigmar anymore… sorry to all the Gloomspite that I never finished painting.
As someone who is on the painting side but not the gaming side it's just encouraging me to wait because a lot of nice sets are going to hit clearance if they don't have rules in the new edition of the game.
I went to my local gaming store last Saturday and I wanted a patrol box for 40k and AOS ... I'm just in the mood to paint ... 1 x AOS ... Some old promo box from 3 years ago... It didn't inspire me so I bought more 40k stuff.
That’s surprising because minis for AoS are so much more detailed and look better/cooler than most 40K minis. I have thousands of them, and few of them come close to the quality of AoS. I’m not sure why GW is putting all of their efforts when it comes to sculpting new models in AoS instead of 40K; I can only assume that they are doing so in order to try to convince people to play AoS as well.
3 months is WAY TOO LONG to be hyping a new edition. I don't have any hard data but I strongly suspect the average person's hype for a new announcement doesn't last anywhere near that long. I feel like they're building up hype and then losing it all again, but at the same time disincentivizing everybody from purchasing stuff because the new edition is gonna change everything in X months.
It feels like this is back to GWs identity crisis questions of "are we a game company, or are we a miniatures company?" I look at any/every retailler wall and think the answer is obvious that the core business has ALWAYS been miniatures, and rules are really just there to support thr models. Every edition, or announcement of a major change put a lot of customers' purchases on-hold while they wait to see where potential new model purchases fall into the new rules environment. Its odd to me, because as they transition more to an IP company anyway the rules become less important and thr visuals of their models as well as their backgrounds become more important. ...and obviously everything on the internet is better if you add a Jay... 🤪
The mountain of waste caused from mass color printing of these fiat books in China to then mass throw away when the edition changes is the most disgusting, destructive, cynical thing that GW does, by far. You can basically guarantee that literal tons of these Battletomes are going to be junked. Literally tons of them, straight into the dumpster, after being made and shipped from halfway around the planet. 90% of all printed AOS books, Dawnbringers books, Arcs of Omen, and crusade go unopened, unread, and straight into the dumpster without a cover. Acquire every freaking rules reference online that you need, spend the 60 bucks on minis or tools instead. Maybe they'll stop hurting the Earth to appease some 90s lead-gasoline mindset if the books literally don't sell at all.
@Nicola_Sacco I think that hilarious because I used to work in the paper industry and (at least in america) wr are in zero danger of "running out of trees" simply because most papermills are self sufficient with their forest management. If anything we need MORE CO2 pumped into the atmosphere to grow more trees.
I would guess that when they do a new edition that re-uses the old edition codexes it might not be as much of an issue. When people know they are going to release indexes for everything the old codexes have a sudden known expiration date so people may avoid buying them. Also with the old codexes people will have some idea of good/bad units and how to build their minis rather than avoiding purchases because X option or unit may be terrible in the new edition.
Nothing like a little self-perpetuating buyer's remorse to make an expensive hobby even more tricky. I'll admit, I genuinely am excited for the new AoS. Now that the faction warscrolls have bren released, I'm champing at the bit to start painting up my chaos boys again. But...there is a tinge of frustration simmering under that excitment. I know I'm gonna have to buy another expensive book that'll be redundant in a couple of years. I know that any army I build based on this new round of rules will probably change dramatically when they push the hard restart again. Makes it difficult to get fully invested in the gaming side of things.
At least the release has not dragged out like the D&D debacle . That's a rollercoaster I never want to ride again. Just release the damn thing all ready.
Personally I feel like there should be a solid quality of life for each edition. However I disagree with how it's done ATM. Currently it's release all the army books then straight new edition. I think there should be a period where the edition is allowed to be played in it's completeness. Or release all the army books in one go at the beginning. The more vocal elements of competition play are always harping on about balance. Yet we're never allowed to play with a fully complete edition for more than a few months. The long hype window actually just jade's me it doesn't help to get me fired up. Im only interested in the new edition now it's released and I can digest at my pleasure. I wouldn't want to work in retail again for anything but as a specialist store it must be hard to make ends meet at times. One of my local stores postponed an event for Aos due to poor ticket sales. Personally I'd prefer if they went back to a slower release style. Mostly I'm thinking where you'd have a big release of the month and then the rest of the month was products to support that release. I don't like this FOMO style of releases where if u don't get it straight away then there's a good chance u won't get it at all. It's not good for the community not just the consumer but also the retailer.
I feel like there has to be smaller ideas, to trickle out, keep customers excited naturally with small items, ideas, events. Something to bring in new people..
I’m curious about the Skaventide pre-order numbers for your store. It’s still available on the GW site, which means that it probably isn’t doing great across the board. The made a new edition because it’s been 3 years, but it really isn’t that different than the last edition. So I think they’re banking pretty hard on Spearhead being an incentive to buy the big box, but I don’t think it’s working.
For me personally, the current trend of hyping a product for months before it is actually released just burns me out..by the time the product is on the shelf, I'm not even interested in it anymore. So it really end up being a lose-lose situation - I'm not buying anything for months up to the actual release because the thing they are hyping is unavailable to purchase (and available products are outdated) and by the time the product actually reaches the shelves, I've already moved on to the next epic thing they dangle in my face waiting for that to be released... rinse-repeat
This is just another reason why I've now made the switch to other games and miniatures. I try to avoid any game that has a competitive scene or a meta, and I try to avoid any company that has shareholders who demand feeding every quarter. I just got tired of playing catch-up with GW while paying through the nose for their stuff. I wasn't feeling like I was being respected as a loyal customer, but abused as an addict, sadly.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 Hey, friend. I feel ya. Have a sit down and take a look at Wargames Atlantic's website and the photos of my Les Grognards army. I'll go get you a cup of tea. Milk and two sugars?
A confluence of factors, I’d wager. Raising prices during a global economic downturn. Competitor games/companies capturing customer interest. GW playing it too safe and just making more of the same. Failure to adapt from IGYG in an alternating activation world. Et cetera.
@cadiastands8 this is why I'm excited to play grimdark future with one page rules. I kinda feel like GW should just focus on making minis and mass produce them to compete with 3d printing. Them charging $105 for a celestine box with 3 models is why 3d printing is so huge. If it was $30 people wouldn't hate it as much.
It’s a combination , it’s burn out , it’s financially motivated , people don’t want to feel like they are wasting money. Couple that with getting bored and being used to new stuff so often that feeds the release cycles. No real way to avoid it. I think 3 years is just too fast anyways , I think around 5 is a good cycle.
I'm slowly getting back into the game after leaving sometime 40k 3rd ed, where the rule book and codex's included art & lore. What the situation is now in the current rules & codex's unsure. But from the amount of rules changes that do happen when just makes me question are GW even properly play testing the rules? Or are that just going "Hey guys we've got this new primarc character coming out any change or doing some rules for him & Btw do a few updates for the previous guy & various units and army's." Or is the way of actually properly play testing such things gone & just having the likes monthly rules updates the thing now? If so then for me that could be considered a big turn off for some if they have bought the rules and codes in book for due to preferring to read things that way rather than remembering to have a laptop charged up with all the latest rules etc downloaded.
The amount of games they'd have to play to properly 'test things' would be immense. I think they rely much more on algorithms to do 90% of the work to tell them how units are balanced.
I've not bought books since I rejoined the hobby. Half of them are obsolete on release, and the GW app is worse than the free apps, so I don't bother with the codes. I suppose GW must force retailers to sell the books.
A big part of the problem is the price. GW sales a kit with $0.50 of plastic in it for $190.00 and a book for $60.00 that has 20 pages of actual rules, half of which are wrong.
It's extremely reductive to only focus on the plastic cost of a kit. Authors, artists, designers, engineers, packers, customer service, management, markering etc etc all need to get paid my friend! The books....well...yea. I appreciate the comment.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 I would be more receptive to that argument if I played a faction where the core kits weren't more than a decade old. Of the 28 kits, 16 date from 2013 or early. The molds, art, etc have all long since been paid for. Additionally, $0.50 for the plastic is far more than the material cost for most of these kits. I wouldn't be surprised if it cost GW less than $3.00 total (for everything you named and more) to make every plastic kit in the line. These are luxury goods, so I don't expect a "fair" price, but their pricing scheme has become price gouging at this point.
I'm curious what a store owner thinks of (mostly?) 3d Printed games like One Page Rules. From my own visits to my FLGS, I don't buy any models, but since I'm generally lousy with models I seem to buy a lot of paints, goodies for basing, etc. What kind of items are the best profit margin? Like individually paints are pretty cheap, but fancy basing can be a bit more expensive... that good stuff to sell?
Margins are generally pretty good on paint and supplies, but like you said, the cost is much lower. I also know business owners appreciate any money coming their way (focus on the sales you are making not the ones you arent). So if someone is opting out of buying kits it generally isn't ideal for our business lol. To each there own. We would never promote a game that promotes a customer to 3d print their models, that would be pretty self destructive. Most hobby shops are still very reliant on kit sales to make it a viable business.
@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 I really like my flgs, so this kind of thing is worth knowing. I do want to support my local gaming stores. I'll make a point to buy some extra snacks next time I'm there 😅
In the past, hobby retailers was the major point of product sales. Today, for big companies such as GW, retailers are only one point of product sales. These stores are now more in a bottom feeder role. Knowing your role will help manage your expectations. You get stuck with poison products, GW doesn't. New editions boost GW's sales because they time their release with their production/inventory numbers. Downstream gets what they get.
From a consumer point of view - I think a 2 month launch window would work best; one month for teasers and hype building and another month for previews and "leaks". 3 years honestly feels short for an edition. I would much rather prefer 4-5 years, especially given the consistent errata and adjustments they're making for balance nowadays.
The predicablity is great and annoying at same time. The Wild West days you would drop lots of money and I was caught twice when the books only lasted a couple of months. That's a feel bad, I want to spend money on models not expensive books. On the other hand, I feel great that the game doesn't have a end date but I stop myself self buying now as it could be coming soon. So don't want to be caught out again. The three year cycle is great as I know when it ends and begins on the downside. Three years is not enough time. It's taken me 3 years to build all my Kill team stuff and now a new edition is around the corner. So I won't be buying much as I know the new one should be coming out. But I haven't gotten value out of playing the game and now it's changed. I've only played one game of Leviathan and now my cards are out of date as noone really plays old editions.
I don't know about other folks but it be nice to see new editions every 5? With Codex/wartomes coming out in the first 2½ years and the ladder half being expansion and campaign books. Between how much I game and how slow I am to get projects done I feel like I end up starting a army for the next edition.
I think the predictability is probably equal if not better for GW. I think the predictability is bad for small businesses. However for GW them failing simplifies logistics and hopefully consolidates their community to the most resilient/successful stores which they I assume hope are also the best stores.
On the seven minute mark you mention "blot out zones" where people lose interest. That's definitely become the case for me with GW: you spend months looking at the models but by the time they release, you aren't excited any more.
Not only is this drawn out "hype period" a double-edged sword for the game/product in question: yes, it is getting a lot of attention over an extended period of time... but just sell me SOMETHING, will ya? It is also kind of cannibalising the rest of the range(s): have you heard anything meaningful about new 40K models, Old World, [insert favourite game here]? GW also decided to just not release things they have lined up for MONTHS now - Adepticon preview, anybody? Dwarfs for Old World and OBR/Sylvaneth for Warcry say "hi". It is super frustrating if you are either looking forward to those... or heavens forbid, just not interested in AoS.
Well there's almost nothing for people to buy so whatever interest was there, potential customers have moved on to other things. A lot of people like the idea of old world but aren't interested in 20 years ++ old models.
I find your AoS drop off odd; as I learned more about the new edition, it made me want to go out and get more plastic to round out my existing forces, especially as far as Spearhead is concerned.
Wait you sell AoS stuff? In my FLGS I've never seen anyone play AoS and the stuff sits like bricks in the shelves. Which is a shame because I've painted a sizeable DoK army as a labour of love, and would like to get them on the table... Your point about expiring products can be observed in my store aswell. Lots of old gw specialist paints and ofc the old army painter paints sitting around and not moving at all ( even at steep discounts)
Regarding the release cycle, I don’t get why people won’t listen. GW *themselves* openly stated in the stockholder letter they sent around Horus Heresy 2.0’s launch that they moved HH to being the third core game with 40k and AoS, and that all three were on staggered 3 year edition cycles so that every year a new core game edition comes out. 2022 was HH 2.0, 2023 was 40k, 2024 is AoS. Gee, I wonder which game is getting a third edition next year? You can predict it right now.
So, it seems like it’s very good for GW. After all, they already made their money on those books they’re about to invalidate after only a couple of months. It’s not so good for the retailer. My LGS has Dominion boxes, still, now marked down to $75.
I’ve seen the big online discounters still have copies so I’m guessing not as well as Leviathan. BUT…. AoS isn’t as big as 40K is. If I had unlimited hobby time, I probably would have snapped up a copy because I love the skaven but I don’t have unlimited time, and my playgroup is 40K so it wouldn’t really work to switch over
Hasn't helped the Economy has been terrible for the last 3 years, i find myself clutching my pearls with my hobby dollars nowadays when normally i havent worried
Three year cycle is way too fast. Though when the game is as terrible as it’s been during 9th and 10th, the change can’t come fast enough. I’ve left GW games systems though so doesn’t bother me anymore.
I hate hate hate when GW milks new edition news. Drop it all on a few weeks of an announcement or the month of. The more they milk it and draw it out the less I give a $hit. It pisses me off to the point where on release I no longer care. Sorry to be so heated I've just been around for a few edition changes for a lot of their games and it drives me crazy 😂
I think the pandemic should have broken up or extended the cycle. I didn’t have any wargamers in my bubble, so I finally start looking to play 9th edition 40k in mid to late 2022, which was most of the way through the cycle.
I stopped playing 40k when they started doing quarterly updates, I couldn't keep up so just stopped playing and buying models. Also having 3 yearly editions made it not worth the $ investment in new books alone.
I think this is partly the board gamification of wargaming and the move away from a hobbies driven product. Am I buying components for a game or collecting a hobby? I blame asmodee because that’s the way I am.
Longer core rule set 7 years or more (when needed) fill the gaps with more expansions and game elements. Do it right the first time and if they are to make errata’s don’t do it as a “new book”. I love the miniatures, quality is top notch. But I lost interest of rules and codexes all that jazz. That is sad because it is an expensive hobby and out of reach to keep up or wanting to keep up.
I'm frustrated with the codexes, personally I'm just not gonna buy them anymore I don't think they're worth the money. They need to be realistic with how disposable these books are and make them more cheaply or even better just do digital releases.
I can’t speak on the business side of things, but as a customer they are releasing new edition way too fast. We need at least five years with an edition, and more would be just fine.
The worst bit is that the rumour now is GW have decided to delay further codices until 11th *_next year_* because of the feedback of 10th being such a clunker. The roadmap has been redacted, much like the 2nd and 11th Space Marine legions. Like, 10th has been so universally panned and there's now speculation that that's why the prices went up as much as they did - to cover the losses as people stop playing 40K in this horrendous edition.
New editions are just a money making scam. 6th and 7th edition were nearly identical etc. New balance sheets have also become a money maker, as instead of balance a faction will be on top and then on the bottom of the competitive play, so competitive players buy new models. This edition is great, there is no need to change but GW needs more codexe's and rule books to sell. They can change the rules whenever they want if they got away with hard copies of rule and codex's. If it was all downloadable there'd be no reason for next editions. Its all a fucking scam.
it"s not been forever, it's been the same delay between the announcement and the release than 40k 10th. A delay which is pretty reasonable. I'd even say it's the bare minimum from a consumer POV. And you should share that POV, because selling books that would be obsolete 4-6 weeks later wouldn't help, and I'd argue this would even hinder the whole development of this hobby. See the big picture...
Forget the books, people stop buying models for almost 3 months. I've been doing this for nearly 20 years, believe me I can see the big picture :) GW used to take care of customers that bought books that didn't last more than a couple of months. They had much shorter notice windows and tighter preview windows. You may not care but it was actually a better time for both customers and retailers. My point of view is to put food on my table. Thanks for your comment.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 and as you said, they catch back later. Also, I don't see any fix. You're not proposing any solution, because there isn't. A shorter window was a better time for consumers ? sure bro, who doesn't love playing with something for 3 weeks before it goes legends.. so much bad faith lol
Should he add female strippers in the background? Actually yes, yes he should. Go hire some hot hookers to strip during the video. Pay for the Friday and Saturday night girls, not the Tuesday afternoon ones with stab and bullet wounds.
Personally, I have edition fatigue. Also, the obsolescence and constant price increases are slowly driving from the hobby. I haven’t bought a model in over a year now.
And I used to be a regular customer with multiple factions.
I see new models over the last year and a half and I also just don’t seem to have excitement and I’ve been in this hobby since 91. So they’ve really just kind of hit a point with me. I guess I am just at the end of my rope model and pricing increases
A new edition would be exciting if there was 5-7 years between editions and all codices came out digital at launch and the physical "codex" is just an art and lore book
I'd prefer rules in my rulebook
@@wolfmanhcc Perhaps if those rules wouldn't be obsolete after three months due to all the balance changes. Look at 40k 10th edition right now - the core rules changes document that came out recently is almost as long as the core rules themselves, and they don't release a new revised core rules document. At that point, the book is functionally useless from a rules perspective.
@@ErikElgerot-PDS it's got lore and art work. Just play it with your friends. You don't have to chase the meta.
@@wolfmanhcc All very good points that have nothing to do with my comment, and completely contradicts the fact that you just replied to someone prefering the printed books to be lore and art books by saying "I prefer the books to have rules".
I hate digital rule books.
I feel like if GW went all in on electronic rules then game stores wouldn’t be stuck with out of date codexes and such. If not, they should have to accept returns within a year like regular book sellers to mitigate the risk of selling books with expiration dates. Me, I’m tired of having old codexes that are just glossy recycling. I collect miniatures, not books and the rules are generally out of date a month after you buy them anyway. We’re all just buying the code, so just sell the code.
I completely agree, with the rapid changes in rules, printing books that are made obsolete sometimes even immediately (see Votann 1.0) are just a terrible business model. Rules should be free or be included with their WH+ Sub, and most gamers would probably spend the money they saved on rulebooks on more miniatures anyways.
At the same time, GW's markup on physical books probably makes up a sizable portion of their profit. It's also something that they can manufacture outside of the UK and ship directly to international distribution centers, thereby skipping post-Brexit tariffs. I agree it's an outdated model, but I also can't blame them for still doing it if it makes them money.
I wouldn’t mind it if the codex became a lore and art book, maybe with a short campaign to run in the back.
As it currently stands, that is all I want a codex for, and I feel like they are ripping me off by charging me to use the app and buy the codex, only to have the codex be out of date before it arrives.
Will never happen as long as people keep buying physical codexes.
Just doing everything online has a huge drawback : it's more difficult to sell a game with non physical rules in retail store. Also, a lot of people on the internet don't get it, but not all people especially like to play miniature wargames with their rules on the phone. Especially old people like me (my sight isn't that good to read everything on a small screen).
Editions need to be much longer. Not to even speak to the poor players who get their codex three months before a new one, but more time with an edition allows GW to fine tune the rules. They can always make new box sets and books WITHOUT a new edition. It's just a cheap marketing thing that works. People are already talking about 11th, we do not get enough time with them.
Definately agree. Especially with all the changes they can make on the fly these days
@Loestal at least now we know it's roughly 3 year cycle per edition but it's up to the community to warn new players that an edition is almost over
Agree completely, I think 5 years between editions would be fine, especially if they got all the codexes/battletomes out in about two years. With AoS, they already have a means of shaking up the meta, and encouraging new sales, with the general’s handbooks.
Don't buy codexes, use on-line rules. Problem solved.
Don't play GW games. Problem kicked to death and buried in a shallow grave. 🤣
Seriously, though, I finally transitioned completely to non-GW minis and rulesets, and my word, what a difference it makes. Mantic, OPR, Stargrave, Wargames Atlantic, Bolt Action... I just feel like I'm respected as a customer, not abused as an addict.
My main concern with AoS is that it is stopping anything for Old World being even mentioned
Old World is already such an afterthought for the company
I know right?
TOW wasn't even featured in the 500th issue of White Dwarf.
Disgraceful.
Meanwhile AOS gets all the love, from sculpts to special events.
I think the ludicrous price of old models and constant lack of availability of the books and cards killed TOW. I wasn't even able to read a rulebook or play a game for 4 or 5 months after the release, & it was secondhand. This also hurts my interest in AOS 4 because I'm just starting learning a complicated game that I should be 6 months into. I also recently have been playing warcry here and there so a new "small" game like spearhead is just more..too much. AOS 3 just finished and gets immediately binned and the cities and some other things I've recently got I will barely use. I feel like there's a firehouse of releases blasting me and I can't keep up. My solution was to just take a step back and concentrate on painting.
@@christopherkruse1370 The old world is actually pretty accessible at the moment in terms of cost. Big models cost a lot of points (a dragon plus Lord character and you have 800+ points that are actually very scary) and stuff like the Bretonnian starter set gives you a very good base to start playing at a good level. Then again, not all factions are created equal, so you can spend quite a lot (or not, tOW community is not picky about official models so you can proxy all your army for a fraction of what it would cost if it was all GW). As for the rules, I have all the books but you can easily find all of them online for free (and with much more rational editing/FAQ included).
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 eh, it is very similar to what they did to WHFB back in the day BUT there are things that give me hope. People are playing tOW (or rather never stopped with 9th age and WAP) the community is actually very alive and more importantly GW made a couple decisions that let me expect support similar to what they are giving Necromunda (BoC passed to tOW and dwarves taken from Cities of Sigmar presumably to be added to tOW). Anyway, we'll see what happens when AoS 4th ed hype will be over.
There's a name for what happens to the old product, in particular, the rules sets: Osborne Effect. I had to clearance out any rules books at below cost, since the new rules were already on the books. Models not so much, but all media/rulebooks were wrecked
Also, right now, Canadian Economy is far from good and that's not even counting how much we pay for shipping, customs, and exchange rate. It's hard enough to found an apartment in most provinces right now, people don't have a lot of money for hobbying or go for cheaper options if they can.
Well said. Hope you are doing alright out there.
Thanks for the comment
It's one of those, I was in the hobby back in 3rd edition 40K, did 9 months as a GW employee, and it was a weird thing to hear about how often there are new editions. Like you had an edition, and different versions of the starter box, where it seemed like less models, smaller models, and the only improvement was the small rulebooks. I came back at the start of 10th edition, and I think I'm already over it. Knowing two years from now the orks are going to change means I can get into it whenever, there is no rush.
This is why Im out of 40k and into Heresy. Longer shelf life.
Considering they put heresy up there with age of sigmar and 40k on the website (but without the support) and the rumors that keep going around, 30k might be getting a new edition next year, possibly HH 2.5. Which would enable them to sell you your army books again. As much as 2.0 has problems, I kind of don't like that I have paid 60 dollars for books I have used twice. Hoping I'm wrong and they just give us an actual FAQ for the core rules instead.
I think 3 years is too short a cycle for new editions. The sheer amount of data slate/war scroll errata and rules updates for AoS 3rd and 40k 10th really show these games aren't tested enough. They feel like the launch is the "open beta test" for the game. You can have day one updates for video games, but physical games with models and printed components can't be constantly updated.
When Leviathan was released my local B&M put the 9e Codex books and cards on clearance. Unfortunately someone bought every Codex before I got there but I bought all of the card packs for $1/each for my collection. They’ve done the same for 4e AoS and this time I was lucky enough to get the Stormcast Eternals, Skaven, Slaves to Darkness, Ossiarch Bonereapers, and Orruk battletomes for $10 each. ‘Outdated’ definitely does not mean ‘worthless’ to me.
Even though they’re only getting $10 instead of the $60 that they charged when it was 9e 40K and 3e AoS that’s still better than nothing; I’m not sure if GW will let retailers send the unsold books back to them for any credit.
From my point of view, there’s just far too much churn in both 40k and AoS. The reset in 40k 10th really felt like change, just for the sake of change, not any major improvement in the system.
I had a lot of STE and BOC and when they announced my models were going to be removed from the game I lost all love for AOS, because I started with 1st Ed and I have the boat anchor rule book for the last 2 editions.I am not going to re-base my entire BOC army after wasting hours making sure every single model down to the Ungors was based. I kinda did not like the last two 40k Editions and I play armies in that are always in a bad place there like Chaos. I switched to HH mostly to avoid having to buy a new book every 3 years. But no one plays that around here so I'm moving towards kitbashing my excess AOS Stormcast into Trench Crusade models. I'm kinda of burnt out on GW after being really strong into them for the last 8 years. I bought lots of games like Killteam that I spent a ton on and that got a new edition less than a year later. Maybe because I'm older but I hate storing piles of 60 dollar out of edition hardcover books.
Sorry to hear that mate
I package food stuffs in Sweden. I can only tell about Sweden ofcourse but people don't buy nearly asmuch food right now, like alot less. People are struggling man.. GW ontop of that just asking for more money, giving less value and stuff as you said have a self life. I now try as buy as little gw stuff as i can to be able to play. And soon i will start playing other games instead with fair prices and give more value.
Thanks for the honest video. It's really insightful to hear your perspective on version updates. Personally, I like scheduled releases of new versions of the system I'm playing. By knowing the remaining lifetime of a version, I have an idea of what to try while it's still alive.
But even as a fan of AOS, GW's marketing engine took entirely too long to "hype" the new version. All the information was scattered, which means that I didn't pay attention for the last month, only checking in when my army received a faction focus, which I read half-heartedly. My point is that the marketing engine isn't getting new players' attention if it can't keep a fan's attention, so a failure on GW's part.
On top of that, while we were waiting for the rules to drop, content creators had full access to the rules, which is a trend that is starting to annoy me. I don't like being a paying customer and being the last to know. They are not given content creators early access for feedback but to promote the new version.
I'll write the marketing campaign off as a bad decision on GW's side. But their commitment to creating prints with rules that are outdated after three months is unfair to newcomers and I wish they would cease that side of the business. I read online comments where new players didn't want to start playing with AOS version 4.0 because of the $60 entry fee for rule books, before buying a piece of plastic. It was a wrong assumption, but if you can't make it clear that the rules are free after months of marketing the message is too vague.
GW should take those books back from you guys at cost and just eat it. You should not have to care about unsold books, if you was a Barnes & Nobels you'd just send those books back to the publisher.
They do...sometimes
I agree with the wait and see mode, it's been how many months of not knowing what date it comes out? I want a date lol.
I'm also into other hobbies right now, I'd like to play AoS for the first time when 4.0 drops but I wasn't able to get into 40k 10th edition so fingers crossed. I may just enjoy the painting and modeling part of the hobby.
As a student looking to design table top games, This video is a great reflection on what not to do with your rules.
Not sure if it is everywhere , but here new editions leave stores with ton of starter boxes they can't sell, but have to order from GW, if they want to order stuff they want. And it gets REALLY bad (store dead) , if GW makes it so the store has to order stuff that will not sell. Want the HH tanks, dreadnoughts etc ? Have to order the starters . And then as a bonus gw sends just the starters. People buy stuff online or 3d print, because they want to play now and not in 2-9 months . So even if GW does send the 2-3 months ago hot item, they may not sell. Especialy if gw pulls a "you can play with all HH stuff in w40k ...upps we made it legends".
Then there is other crazy stuff. AoS after the 4th purge. People stopped buying stuff from stores, because thry fear their Slayers or sea elves may get a similar treatment.
Yeah, Dungeons and Discourse was talking about how WotC was reading from the Video Game publisher's playbook with the same early tease and announcement of pre-order exclusives. And it seems GW is looking over their shoulder pushing the new edition instead of supporting the current edition. I am glad that they don't pay much attention to Blood Bowl. But I guess they do the new releases around Christmas time. So we'll see what that looks like.
Personally speaking, the incredibly short edition cycle of most GW games these days is why I no longer buy into said editions. I can’t be bothered to buy and learn a new rule set and new codex every three years, and in my opinion it’s also a huge impediment to even playing in the first place. As a very slow painter, there’s a very good chance that I’ll never be able to paint up an army in the time that a new edition will roll up. I’ll be sticking to an older edition of 40k from now on with my small group of friends, and am not even bothering with Age of Sigmar anymore… sorry to all the Gloomspite that I never finished painting.
As someone who is on the painting side but not the gaming side it's just encouraging me to wait because a lot of nice sets are going to hit clearance if they don't have rules in the new edition of the game.
I went to my local gaming store last Saturday and I wanted a patrol box for 40k and AOS ... I'm just in the mood to paint ... 1 x AOS ... Some old promo box from 3 years ago... It didn't inspire me so I bought more 40k stuff.
That’s surprising because minis for AoS are so much more detailed and look better/cooler than most 40K minis. I have thousands of them, and few of them come close to the quality of AoS. I’m not sure why GW is putting all of their efforts when it comes to sculpting new models in AoS instead of 40K; I can only assume that they are doing so in order to try to convince people to play AoS as well.
3 months is WAY TOO LONG to be hyping a new edition. I don't have any hard data but I strongly suspect the average person's hype for a new announcement doesn't last anywhere near that long. I feel like they're building up hype and then losing it all again, but at the same time disincentivizing everybody from purchasing stuff because the new edition is gonna change everything in X months.
You are not wrong sir!
Thanks for making this. I feel for you retailers.
It feels like this is back to GWs identity crisis questions of "are we a game company, or are we a miniatures company?"
I look at any/every retailler wall and think the answer is obvious that the core business has ALWAYS been miniatures, and rules are really just there to support thr models. Every edition, or announcement of a major change put a lot of customers' purchases on-hold while they wait to see where potential new model purchases fall into the new rules environment.
Its odd to me, because as they transition more to an IP company anyway the rules become less important and thr visuals of their models as well as their backgrounds become more important.
...and obviously everything on the internet is better if you add a Jay... 🤪
The mountain of waste caused from mass color printing of these fiat books in China to then mass throw away when the edition changes is the most disgusting, destructive, cynical thing that GW does, by far. You can basically guarantee that literal tons of these Battletomes are going to be junked. Literally tons of them, straight into the dumpster, after being made and shipped from halfway around the planet.
90% of all printed AOS books, Dawnbringers books, Arcs of Omen, and crusade go unopened, unread, and straight into the dumpster without a cover.
Acquire every freaking rules reference online that you need, spend the 60 bucks on minis or tools instead. Maybe they'll stop hurting the Earth to appease some 90s lead-gasoline mindset if the books literally don't sell at all.
So funny that they have (Please also think of the trees) under the print order summary button on their website.
@Nicola_Sacco I think that hilarious because I used to work in the paper industry and (at least in america) wr are in zero danger of "running out of trees" simply because most papermills are self sufficient with their forest management. If anything we need MORE CO2 pumped into the atmosphere to grow more trees.
I would guess that when they do a new edition that re-uses the old edition codexes it might not be as much of an issue. When people know they are going to release indexes for everything the old codexes have a sudden known expiration date so people may avoid buying them. Also with the old codexes people will have some idea of good/bad units and how to build their minis rather than avoiding purchases because X option or unit may be terrible in the new edition.
Nothing like a little self-perpetuating buyer's remorse to make an expensive hobby even more tricky.
I'll admit, I genuinely am excited for the new AoS. Now that the faction warscrolls have bren released, I'm champing at the bit to start painting up my chaos boys again. But...there is a tinge of frustration simmering under that excitment. I know I'm gonna have to buy another expensive book that'll be redundant in a couple of years. I know that any army I build based on this new round of rules will probably change dramatically when they push the hard restart again. Makes it difficult to get fully invested in the gaming side of things.
At least the release has not dragged out like the D&D debacle . That's a rollercoaster I never want to ride again. Just release the damn thing all ready.
Personally I feel like there should be a solid quality of life for each edition. However I disagree with how it's done ATM. Currently it's release all the army books then straight new edition. I think there should be a period where the edition is allowed to be played in it's completeness.
Or release all the army books in one go at the beginning. The more vocal elements of competition play are always harping on about balance. Yet we're never allowed to play with a fully complete edition for more than a few months.
The long hype window actually just jade's me it doesn't help to get me fired up. Im only interested in the new edition now it's released and I can digest at my pleasure.
I wouldn't want to work in retail again for anything but as a specialist store it must be hard to make ends meet at times. One of my local stores postponed an event for Aos due to poor ticket sales.
Personally I'd prefer if they went back to a slower release style. Mostly I'm thinking where you'd have a big release of the month and then the rest of the month was products to support that release. I don't like this FOMO style of releases where if u don't get it straight away then there's a good chance u won't get it at all. It's not good for the community not just the consumer but also the retailer.
I wouldn't be suprised if we started to see less releases
I feel like there has to be smaller ideas, to trickle out, keep customers excited naturally with small items, ideas, events. Something to bring in new people..
I’m curious about the Skaventide pre-order numbers for your store. It’s still available on the GW site, which means that it probably isn’t doing great across the board. The made a new edition because it’s been 3 years, but it really isn’t that different than the last edition. So I think they’re banking pretty hard on Spearhead being an incentive to buy the big box, but I don’t think it’s working.
For me personally, the current trend of hyping a product for months before it is actually released just burns me out..by the time the product is on the shelf, I'm not even interested in it anymore. So it really end up being a lose-lose situation - I'm not buying anything for months up to the actual release because the thing they are hyping is unavailable to purchase (and available products are outdated) and by the time the product actually reaches the shelves, I've already moved on to the next epic thing they dangle in my face waiting for that to be released... rinse-repeat
This is just another reason why I've now made the switch to other games and miniatures. I try to avoid any game that has a competitive scene or a meta, and I try to avoid any company that has shareholders who demand feeding every quarter.
I just got tired of playing catch-up with GW while paying through the nose for their stuff. I wasn't feeling like I was being respected as a loyal customer, but abused as an addict, sadly.
I can quit whenever I want...**scratches arm nervously***
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 Hey, friend. I feel ya. Have a sit down and take a look at Wargames Atlantic's website and the photos of my Les Grognards army. I'll go get you a cup of tea. Milk and two sugars?
A confluence of factors, I’d wager. Raising prices during a global economic downturn. Competitor games/companies capturing customer interest. GW playing it too safe and just making more of the same. Failure to adapt from IGYG in an alternating activation world. Et cetera.
@cadiastands8 this is why I'm excited to play grimdark future with one page rules. I kinda feel like GW should just focus on making minis and mass produce them to compete with 3d printing. Them charging $105 for a celestine box with 3 models is why 3d printing is so huge. If it was $30 people wouldn't hate it as much.
@@Scotty86doo In fact, I play a ton of OPR and was thinking of precisely that while typing my comment! 😂
It’s a combination , it’s burn out , it’s financially motivated , people don’t want to feel like they are wasting money. Couple that with getting bored and being used to new stuff so often that feeds the release cycles. No real way to avoid it. I think 3 years is just too fast anyways , I think around 5 is a good cycle.
I'm slowly getting back into the game after leaving sometime 40k 3rd ed, where the rule book and codex's included art & lore. What the situation is now in the current rules & codex's unsure.
But from the amount of rules changes that do happen when just makes me question are GW even properly play testing the rules?
Or are that just going "Hey guys we've got this new primarc character coming out any change or doing some rules for him & Btw do a few updates for the previous guy & various units and army's."
Or is the way of actually properly play testing such things gone & just having the likes monthly rules updates the thing now? If so then for me that could be considered a big turn off for some if they have bought the rules and codes in book for due to preferring to read things that way rather than remembering to have a laptop charged up with all the latest rules etc downloaded.
The amount of games they'd have to play to properly 'test things' would be immense. I think they rely much more on algorithms to do 90% of the work to tell them how units are balanced.
I've not bought books since I rejoined the hobby. Half of them are obsolete on release, and the GW app is worse than the free apps, so I don't bother with the codes. I suppose GW must force retailers to sell the books.
A big part of the problem is the price. GW sales a kit with $0.50 of plastic in it for $190.00 and a book for $60.00 that has 20 pages of actual rules, half of which are wrong.
It's extremely reductive to only focus on the plastic cost of a kit. Authors, artists, designers, engineers, packers, customer service, management, markering etc etc all need to get paid my friend!
The books....well...yea.
I appreciate the comment.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 I would be more receptive to that argument if I played a faction where the core kits weren't more than a decade old. Of the 28 kits, 16 date from 2013 or early. The molds, art, etc have all long since been paid for. Additionally, $0.50 for the plastic is far more than the material cost for most of these kits. I wouldn't be surprised if it cost GW less than $3.00 total (for everything you named and more) to make every plastic kit in the line. These are luxury goods, so I don't expect a "fair" price, but their pricing scheme has become price gouging at this point.
I'm curious what a store owner thinks of (mostly?) 3d Printed games like One Page Rules. From my own visits to my FLGS, I don't buy any models, but since I'm generally lousy with models I seem to buy a lot of paints, goodies for basing, etc. What kind of items are the best profit margin? Like individually paints are pretty cheap, but fancy basing can be a bit more expensive... that good stuff to sell?
Margins are generally pretty good on paint and supplies, but like you said, the cost is much lower. I also know business owners appreciate any money coming their way (focus on the sales you are making not the ones you arent).
So if someone is opting out of buying kits it generally isn't ideal for our business lol.
To each there own. We would never promote a game that promotes a customer to 3d print their models, that would be pretty self destructive. Most hobby shops are still very reliant on kit sales to make it a viable business.
@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 I really like my flgs, so this kind of thing is worth knowing. I do want to support my local gaming stores. I'll make a point to buy some extra snacks next time I'm there 😅
In the past, hobby retailers was the major point of product sales. Today, for big companies such as GW, retailers are only one point of product sales. These stores are now more in a bottom feeder role. Knowing your role will help manage your expectations. You get stuck with poison products, GW doesn't. New editions boost GW's sales because they time their release with their production/inventory numbers. Downstream gets what they get.
Haha thanks I'm aware of our position 😆
From a consumer point of view - I think a 2 month launch window would work best; one month for teasers and hype building and another month for previews and "leaks". 3 years honestly feels short for an edition. I would much rather prefer 4-5 years, especially given the consistent errata and adjustments they're making for balance nowadays.
The predicablity is great and annoying at same time.
The Wild West days you would drop lots of money and I was caught twice when the books only lasted a couple of months. That's a feel bad, I want to spend money on models not expensive books.
On the other hand, I feel great that the game doesn't have a end date but I stop myself self buying now as it could be coming soon. So don't want to be caught out again.
The three year cycle is great as I know when it ends and begins on the downside. Three years is not enough time. It's taken me 3 years to build all my Kill team stuff and now a new edition is around the corner. So I won't be buying much as I know the new one should be coming out. But I haven't gotten value out of playing the game and now it's changed. I've only played one game of Leviathan and now my cards are out of date as noone really plays old editions.
You feel like you are up against the clock
I don't know about other folks but it be nice to see new editions every 5? With Codex/wartomes coming out in the first 2½ years and the ladder half being expansion and campaign books.
Between how much I game and how slow I am to get projects done I feel like I end up starting a army for the next edition.
I think the predictability is probably equal if not better for GW. I think the predictability is bad for small businesses. However for GW them failing simplifies logistics and hopefully consolidates their community to the most resilient/successful stores which they I assume hope are also the best stores.
On the seven minute mark you mention "blot out zones" where people lose interest. That's definitely become the case for me with GW: you spend months looking at the models but by the time they release, you aren't excited any more.
Not only is this drawn out "hype period" a double-edged sword for the game/product in question: yes, it is getting a lot of attention over an extended period of time... but just sell me SOMETHING, will ya?
It is also kind of cannibalising the rest of the range(s): have you heard anything meaningful about new 40K models, Old World, [insert favourite game here]? GW also decided to just not release things they have lined up for MONTHS now - Adepticon preview, anybody? Dwarfs for Old World and OBR/Sylvaneth for Warcry say "hi". It is super frustrating if you are either looking forward to those... or heavens forbid, just not interested in AoS.
I think it might be time to go back to historical gaming. Modern wargaming is turning into a fleece machine.
How are your Old World sales/customer interest?
Well there's almost nothing for people to buy so whatever interest was there, potential customers have moved on to other things.
A lot of people like the idea of old world but aren't interested in 20 years ++ old models.
I find your AoS drop off odd; as I learned more about the new edition, it made me want to go out and get more plastic to round out my existing forces, especially as far as Spearhead is concerned.
Wait you sell AoS stuff? In my FLGS I've never seen anyone play AoS and the stuff sits like bricks in the shelves.
Which is a shame because I've painted a sizeable DoK army as a labour of love, and would like to get them on the table...
Your point about expiring products can be observed in my store aswell. Lots of old gw specialist paints and ofc the old army painter paints sitting around and not moving at all ( even at steep discounts)
Regarding the release cycle, I don’t get why people won’t listen.
GW *themselves* openly stated in the stockholder letter they sent around Horus Heresy 2.0’s launch that they moved HH to being the third core game with 40k and AoS, and that all three were on staggered 3 year edition cycles so that every year a new core game edition comes out.
2022 was HH 2.0, 2023 was 40k, 2024 is AoS.
Gee, I wonder which game is getting a third edition next year? You can predict it right now.
So, it seems like it’s very good for GW. After all, they already made their money on those books they’re about to invalidate after only a couple of months.
It’s not so good for the retailer.
My LGS has Dominion boxes, still, now marked down to $75.
You should buy them. Dominion boxes easily sell for $150 on eBay on the strength of the models alone
@neilcaskey3305 I agree that's a easy flip if you don't jump on it tell the LGS to list them and move the product
how were the preorders for skaventide, a few grumblings about it not being well received in a lot of places?
Well, it was about 18% of the orders of 40k 10th in my place. That was over 700 boxes from one of our stores in 10th for pre-order.
Stay tuned for next week's market update video 😮
I’ve seen the big online discounters still have copies so I’m guessing not as well as Leviathan. BUT…. AoS isn’t as big as 40K is.
If I had unlimited hobby time, I probably would have snapped up a copy because I love the skaven but I don’t have unlimited time, and my playgroup is 40K so it wouldn’t really work to switch over
Hasn't helped the Economy has been terrible for the last 3 years, i find myself clutching my pearls with my hobby dollars nowadays when normally i havent worried
Very good point
Hey, it's Jay's sidekick working on his own again :)
Don't tell on me!
Sorry Chris, everyone is waiting for Dwarfs...
Yes we are
You look like Josh Homme! You rock! Have you played Song of Ice and Fire.
Played it a little when it came out, was a lot of fun!
Three year cycle is way too fast.
Though when the game is as terrible as it’s been during 9th and 10th, the change can’t come fast enough.
I’ve left GW games systems though so doesn’t bother me anymore.
I hate hate hate when GW milks new edition news. Drop it all on a few weeks of an announcement or the month of. The more they milk it and draw it out the less I give a $hit. It pisses me off to the point where on release I no longer care. Sorry to be so heated I've just been around for a few edition changes for a lot of their games and it drives me crazy 😂
Totally get it
I think the pandemic should have broken up or extended the cycle. I didn’t have any wargamers in my bubble, so I finally start looking to play 9th edition 40k in mid to late 2022, which was most of the way through the cycle.
I stopped playing 40k when they started doing quarterly updates, I couldn't keep up so just stopped playing and buying models.
Also having 3 yearly editions made it not worth the $ investment in new books alone.
GW should embrace digital!
No point in selling books.
I think this is partly the board gamification of wargaming and the move away from a hobbies driven product. Am I buying components for a game or collecting a hobby? I blame asmodee because that’s the way I am.
Blamestorm gotta blame someone!
Longer core rule set 7 years or more (when needed) fill the gaps with more expansions and game elements. Do it right the first time and if they are to make errata’s don’t do it as a “new book”. I love the miniatures, quality is top notch. But I lost interest of rules and codexes all that jazz. That is sad because it is an expensive hobby and out of reach to keep up or wanting to keep up.
I'm frustrated with the codexes, personally I'm just not gonna buy them anymore I don't think they're worth the money. They need to be realistic with how disposable these books are and make them more cheaply or even better just do digital releases.
Dull hum in the background, are you sure Jay's not there? :p
🧐Aw man, not _This _*_Guy_*_ Again_ ....... Where's Jay already❓
[};-)=*☁
Codexes are such a waste of paper
I can’t speak on the business side of things, but as a customer they are releasing new edition way too fast. We need at least five years with an edition, and more would be just fine.
I think Bell Biv Devo did a lot of good work. So New Edition is not really necessary. Never trust a big butt and a smile.
The worst bit is that the rumour now is GW have decided to delay further codices until 11th *_next year_* because of the feedback of 10th being such a clunker. The roadmap has been redacted, much like the 2nd and 11th Space Marine legions. Like, 10th has been so universally panned and there's now speculation that that's why the prices went up as much as they did - to cover the losses as people stop playing 40K in this horrendous edition.
I have actually lost interest since it's taken so long.
Wait, what's coming out again?
New editions are just a money making scam. 6th and 7th edition were nearly identical etc. New balance sheets have also become a money maker, as instead of balance a faction will be on top and then on the bottom of the competitive play, so competitive players buy new models. This edition is great, there is no need to change but GW needs more codexe's and rule books to sell. They can change the rules whenever they want if they got away with hard copies of rule and codex's. If it was all downloadable there'd be no reason for next editions. Its all a fucking scam.
Scam? Maybe. But what other miniature game has lasted without new editions?
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 Its the industry standard.
Expiring products has a potential environmental cost too.
it"s not been forever, it's been the same delay between the announcement and the release than 40k 10th. A delay which is pretty reasonable.
I'd even say it's the bare minimum from a consumer POV. And you should share that POV, because selling books that would be obsolete 4-6 weeks later wouldn't help, and I'd argue this would even hinder the whole development of this hobby. See the big picture...
Forget the books, people stop buying models for almost 3 months.
I've been doing this for nearly 20 years, believe me I can see the big picture :)
GW used to take care of customers that bought books that didn't last more than a couple of months.
They had much shorter notice windows and tighter preview windows.
You may not care but it was actually a better time for both customers and retailers.
My point of view is to put food on my table.
Thanks for your comment.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 and as you said, they catch back later.
Also, I don't see any fix. You're not proposing any solution, because there isn't.
A shorter window was a better time for consumers ? sure bro, who doesn't love playing with something for 3 weeks before it goes legends.. so much bad faith lol
Aw man, not _This _*_Guy_*_ Again_ ......... Where's Jay already❓
[};-)=*☁
I know right
No clue how i got here.
All i do is print Warhammer figurines 24/7 :P
Bless!
Boooooring!
Next time I'll add dancing?
Should he add female strippers in the background?
Actually yes, yes he should. Go hire some hot hookers to strip during the video. Pay for the Friday and Saturday night girls, not the Tuesday afternoon ones with stab and bullet wounds.