Love how he uses Magmar as an example of "growing pains" even though it's the oldest member of it's family and the others were tacked on after the fact.
@@emperorcubone that’s an interesting point because I think Magmar does represent the early growing pains of Pokémon design in general. And that’s why I love it- It shows how the designers used to think about Pokémon when they were just starting to put a concept for this series together
@@JohnnyHikesSW To be fair, I don't think pokemon designs are strictly better now than they used to be. I think they especially did monstrous designs better back in the early days. They really put the "mon" in "Pokemon." As EC kind of pointed out in the video, Rhydon is great example of what earlier designs excelled at. Despite obviously being fictional and exaggerated, it looks almost like a creature that could feasibly exist in the wild. Rhyperior, on the other hand, is a cluttered mess of a design. You can tell they were struggling to improve on Rhydon, and it seems their solution was to just throw a bunch of extra crap on it, like an extra drill horn, a ton of orange bricks for armor, a wrecking ball tail and cannon arms. It really looks like some mad scientist took a Rhydon and turned it into some kind of construction-themed cyborg. My best guess is that happened because starting around Gens 3 and 4 they began pushing towards the sleeker, sometimes plushier, sometimes human-like designs and Rhyperior is what happens when you try and graft those kind of features onto a more animalistic design.
I think Haunter is an amazing design. It captures the ethereal nature of gen I ghosts much better than the two-footed Gengar, with an evil grin and disconnected hands. Yet, it manages to be funny and loveable in its anime depiction. It is the exact kind of otherworldly being you would expect to find when using a Silph Scope.
@@JOCoStudio1 same, honestly I think gengar and haunter (just there designs) should be swapped, gengar looks like gas forming into a body, then it becomes bigger, and it's hands detach and get claws. Overall I'd just prefer if gengar was the middle and haunter was the final.
Swadloon is just, weird? It's just a very strange way to do a cocoon, but then again so is Whirlipede. Although the one time I used a Sewaddle it liked me so much that it was only a Swadloon for one level and then evolved immediately so I didn't get to really use it...
@@emperorcubone I usually like how they try to make the cocoons more interesting, changing it up a bit; I think Silcoon/Cascoon and Metapod are the weakest of the cocoon designs, being only one colour and really not doing much to give them character, they just stay really close to real life, whereas the later designs tend to give the cocoons more mobility, like they really can fight themselves as well. This makes Spewpa the weakest cocoon beyond gen 3 for me as well, going back again to the weaker more motionless cocoon (all of this is also reflected in their movepools). I really can't describe why I like them so much beyond that. Swadloon is just a lil guy.
@@emperorcubone I would argue that the middle stage acting as a seemless transition doesn’t make sense from a thematic perspective, because growth is not just a physical process but an emotional process as well. And I think awkward middle states represent the emotional aspect of growing up (or, more generally, experiencing a transformation in your life) really well
@@emperorcubone everytime i see someone using a sewadle they literally just stay with swadloon for one level, because for some reason the swadloon loves you so much that they evolve into leavanny almost immediatly.
Fun fact: Lampent used to be the final evolution of the line before Chandelure existed. In development, the first stage of the line was literally just a flame, or a will-o-wisp, and Litwick was the middle stage.
Kakuna for me proves how simplicity can add a lot to a middle stage design. It was very difficult to create a half-menacing, half-cute cocoon design that could distinguish itself enough from Metapod and represent the transition from Weedle to Beedrill. Yet, with a brighter colour, dark eyes and more triangles, they pulled it perfectly. Especially for a low resolution display like that of RBY (remember back in the day kakuna sprites even had small claws).
Kakuna actually does have claws in all its depictions, it just holds them to its chest most of the time (that "tie" it appears to wear is actually its forelimbs). The gen 1 sprites are the only ones which depict them extended.
I completely disagree about Morgrem partly because in my mind Grimmsnarl only looks bulky because he is making its hair look like muscles but it's really just a tall thin boy covered in hair and yes the pink and green do clash but that is also kinda the point with it being a dark/fairy prankster pokemon
@@emperorcubone Color does not denote a Pokemon's type, strictly speaking. I recall someone thought Inkay should be a water type because it's blue, when I personally would more make that connection based on it being a squid. A similar example can be seen with 3 different steel type Pokemon in Bronzong, Metagross and Lucario, all of which are largely blue in coloration rather than a more metallic color like silver or gray. Having said that, certain types are often associated with certain colors, but it's by no means a hard and fast rule that they need to have a particular color to represent their type
I love Morgrem and it's signature move is perfect for it in my opinion. I was so excited about having it on my team and it lead my party ... until it evolved. I don't like a single thing about Grimmsnarl and honestly feel this like is almost as disconnected as the dragonair line. The first two are small thin tricksters. The final is a big buff monster. It doesn't fit with the line at all stylistically. Morgrem is a perfect continuation of Impidimp and looks just like I would expect impidimps older brother to look
Okay, minor disagree on Drizzile, if only because that line is one of my favorites, and as a kid who cried a lot, got into emo during its heyday, and grew up to be significantly more confident, I appreciate the arc they went for with it. Favorite middle evolution: shout out to Doublade! I ended up using one in my second X playthrough and just gave it an Eviolite, no disrespect to Aegislash, I love Aegislash. But what can I say, I’m a dual wielder at heart.
Milotic looks like how the dratini/dragonair line always should have turned out in a 3rd form. Maybe, one day we will get a divergent evolutionary pathway for Dratini.
I feel something to note regarding dragonair->dragonite Its based on a wyrm, which is basically a dragon but snake. And i think its showing a wyrm changing into a true western dragon
@@everetthopper884 I know, but I don't think it makes it much better. It could have easily stayed a wyrm or turned into an asian dragon (lung, I think?)
@@emperorcubone you mentioned it, but my take was that since that list was old your opinions changed and those Pokémon don’t apply anymore. I see what you mean now though
I’m so glad Braixen was seen as one of the best middle stages. Fennekin is my favorite Fire-type starter evolution line, and Braixen is not only my favorite Fire-type but my main back when I played Pokkén. So that makes me very happy. :)
Morgrem and Sizzile seem more likely representing phases of life, not so much a physical evolution but more of a maturity evolution, similar to how people adapt/change personality/interests over time
This list, strangely, did get me thinking about two-stage Pokémon lines, and how there are a lot that are really great like Tyrantrum and Salazzle. Think there could be a video dedicated to them?
Fun fact! According to the designers, Lampent was going to be originally the final form, with Litwick being the middle stage and the base stage being a small flame without artwork. Eventually Chandelure would be created instead and the line would end up the way we know and love it.
I super love Drizzile, and tbh, it's because of the anime. I'm not big on Galar, but I do have a weakness for emo bangs nowadays. I wanna buy a plush of him one day.
You know, that would actually be a true revolution of the battle system, unlike the constantly thrown out gimmicks, but if base stages could have fully evolved stats, that could change a lot!
So surprising to me that Grovyle, my favorite Pokemon of all time wasn't even on the list!! From how cool, chill and entertaining Ash's Grovyle was in the anime to how great was it's presence in PMD. For me it's always better that Sceptile!
I love that Sobble's evolutionary line is pretty much a character arc as Sobble goes from being emotional and depressed to being a confident assassin. I just wish Drizzile was a better transition to Inteleon
Tbh, I really love Morgrem and Im sad to see them so low. It might not be the best link between the two, but in terms of design I really prefer Morgrem to both of the others. Justice for the emo goblin
I think I would actually prefer if Morgrem WERE a single stage as the lone first Fairy/Dark type; I would appreciate it a lot more, but as it stands it's trying to hold onto two other Pokemon that barely resemble it...
I don't think Gurdurr is that bad. I had a Gurdurr in my team and i was unable to evolve it, because i have no friends to trade with. I was starting to lose hope in him, so i replaced him with different pokemon for my team when i was trying to beat the elite 4. But i just decided to take him and he somehow helped me beat Unova elite 4. This guy is strong. And i don't find his design weird, i actually find it kinda cool. And i don't think it's weird that when it evolves it goes back to having concrete. Some minerals are heavier than metals and naturally made pillars can be much more heavier than steel.
@@emperorcubone even if it's made of concrete. The fact that he is not just lifting 1 but two pillars, is the fact that he's gotten much stronger than Gurdurr.
I agree with most of these, but Croconaw? That's nuts! I always deliberately wait for Croconaw to reach level 34 or so, just so I can use the guy/ or gal a bit longer. Imo Croconaw is one of THE best starter middle Evos we have to this day.
Tbh, I never even saw the "caveman" like look until he said it in his vid...I still like the mon, though. Because I prefer Feraligatr over either Johto starter! :P
I always found Ivysaur to have more grit than the middle stage of its two fellow starters. Like this vicious guard dog you are rewarded with, for evolving your starter for the first time 💪🏼🐸
I do agree that the design for Dragonite comes out of nowhere as a final evo kinda like how Trapinch really looks nothing like it's later evolutionary stages but I also feel like Dragonair falls into that trap of some middle stages just looking like bigger first stage forms.
I don’t see how Dragonite takes the blame for deviating from the trajectory set by Dratini and Dragonair, yet Grimsnarl does not take the blame for doing the exact same thing
I myself am not the biggest fan of Drizzile but I still believe it makes sense as a middle stage. As we all know, Sobble's whole thing from the start was being sad so it growing up to be an angsty teen because it's sad makes a whole lot of sense. It also explains the color shift too, if it's going for an emo look then that's why its colors are darker, emos as a whole are known for standing out and being different, that's their thing. Then when it evolves into Inteleon it's gotten over its sadness and is now more confident in itself and has gotten its life together. Sobble's whole evolution line is one big character arc, one with a beginning, a character low point in the third act and a redemption at the end.
About the Gurdurr debacle you brought up, its all about the AGE of them. Wood is a new short lasting structure, metal is from the industrial revolution(new aged building material), and the oldest buildings we see in history are made of concrete (see ancient roman buildings)
fun fact: galar is literally the first region since kanto that i have genuinely adored every form of every starter. Drizzile might even be my favorite of the gen 8 starter middle stages. so basically, the assertion that "no one is really big on the galar starters" is not true. i fell in love with all of them and then was absolutely shocked when i found out most people didn't like them
For the most part I never really had an issue with not liking the final stage evolutions. I usually found myself not liking the middle stages so much myself. But I do have two exceptions and one of them is Loudred as well. The other is Combusken in case you were curious. In both cases they just look much better than their final stages to me.
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I really like Quilladin. I mean, it’s not my favorite middle evolution, that honor would have to go to either Grovyle or Wartortle, but I think Quilladin is pretty cute, and I just love the entire Chespin line in general. Anyways, my least favorite middle evolution is probably Brionne, I don’t know why. Just not a big fan of it lol
I disagree with most of this list, but it's neat to hear your explanations. I'm glad there are so many designs and so many ways to interpret them, there is always something for everyone
In my opinion I prefer it when each stage is unique and stand out from eachother. I think if a middle stage pokemon is only a transition stage then it ends up being forgettable or feeling redundant.
I really believe Delphox has been overshadowed by Greninja since the very first time! I get people love Braixen just like they love Grovyle more, if not equally, than Sceptile, but Delphox is a powerful wizard 🪄 it's literally the Harry Potter Pokémon! How can someone hate it? Also, I love Drizzile so much. I love its colours scheme and the overall design and it evolves into a beautiful spy (yeah I love Inteleon as well)!
I shall not take this Drizzile slander, I'll give reasons 1: the water balloons it uses pop and squart out similar to how snipbshit swuarts out, making the transition into inteleons weapon more valid 2: it does have transition signs from sobble to inteleon, it's hands be one mittin hands because they will develop more in the final Evo, same for feet, the tail is longer, the pattern on its belly foreshadows inteleons, and the hair is actually the same, just a little different, the yellow becomes the two drooping hairs, and the line the yellow was holding on to is the hair at the top. Heck the green eyelids become inteleons yellow eyelids. 3: it's personality does go with the line, sobble is a cry baby, Drizzile is more depressed, becoming more like a dark emo as it grows, and that sadness makes it a cold hearted spy as inteleon 4: it's a crime that drizz is apparently the worst, but pignite exists, cause if you actually want a bad middle Evo, that's #1, cause pignite is legit dog crap.
@@emperorcubone "if I had a penny for everytime a person slandered one of my fav water starters, I'd have two pennies, which isn't much but it's strange that it happened twice."
Staravia is one of my favourite middle stages 😂 I would always delay evolving it until it learnt Brave Bird, and I actually prefer the design to Staraptor. Also in Platinum, it is fantastic in the Battle Factory, I definitely owe my Gold and Silver prints to it
Yeah I disagree with his analysis. I think Staravia is really good because it's the middle stage/more mature, more edgy "teen" phase: growing up from the cute baby Starly and evolving into the fierce and strong adult Staraptor.
I will say I do appreciate it more than an *actual teen phase like they try with recent starters, such as Dartrix or Raboot. I just wish Staravia had a personality of it's own; it's basically a blank slate, when a Pokemon like say Lairon dose adolescence much better...
Starter pokemon tend to have the most hit-or-miss middle evolutions I think. You've got your floragatos and your dewotts right alongside your crocalors and quilladins, with plenty of mehs all around, from your old charmeleons to to the raboots and quaxwells of today.
I highly disagree with the Spewpa one, and it's sad that no one seems to understand its concept. Vivillon and Spewpa's concept it's based on pixel art (most notable in Vivillon design), and how in sixth gen game freak stopped using pixel art and started using 3d models. The little squares on the Spewpa's fur are meant to represent pixels on a whiteboard, and the different patters of Vivillon are the results of the pixel art that started in Spewpa, that's why it's a really cohesive middle evolution that solidify the concept of its evolution.
staravia is a person in their akward teen phase gurdurr's hair is messy cuz when you work construction it turns like that, a big dirty mess, and most building use more concrete than steel, so the biggest evolution using concrete makes sense Croconaw using cave man aestetichs makes sense when u realize how old crocodiles are compared to alligators a crybaby getting emo and rebellious only to tidy up as an adult fits the sobble line
Is is Wartortle’s fault that he gets ear wings and a cloudy tail that isn’t present in the other 2 stages or is it Blastoise’s fault that he didn’t continue using them?
When Sword and Shield leaks were a thing, I saw Drizzle and thought it was the shiny form and that the normal form would follow the blue and yellow pattern. That's how bad the neon green is.
Not sure rhydon should have counted, as it was designed as a final form, which gives it an edge a lot of the others don't have. As for drizzile, I more see its line as being akin to the dratini line, as 'that sad pokémon' turning emo when it reaches its middle stage makes sense, it's just drizzile > inteleon which seems left field (I guess, looking back, the idea is that emos are often seen as kind of cryptic and liking to slink into the shadows, but that isn't particularly intuitive).
I actually enjoy when mid-stages that have unique features, greatly enjoying Croconaw much more than Feraligator actually. I think the caveman aesthetic while random makes sense for how aggressive the line can be.
something I love is that no matter how unpopular a pokemon is it will always have it's fans; case and point, morgrem is one of my favorites, he might not bridge the gap well but I love him
Oh for sure; I made a crack a week or two ago about there being at least one Heatmor fan and like dozen people commented that they or someone they knew loved the thing!
I will say this in defense of Spewpa, because I think it's a good representation of the real world inspiration for the mon. It's supposed to be a bagworm. Instead of growing a full cocoon, these little guys grab little bits of plant matter around themselves like a bag in order to disguise themselves and look like something inedible, with just a little hole at one end so the can reach out to move and eat. They missed the mark in terms of color scheme, but it's Pokémon.
Suprasingly, Galar has the most best starter mid-stages with 2. I prefer Thwackey and Raboot over Rilaboom and Cinderace. The situation where I prefer mid-stage over fully evolved happened 7 times with Graveler, Haunter, Seadra, Pupitar, Gothorita, Sliggoo and Steenee but only once with a starter, Braixen
Interesting opinions. I personally like Staravia and think Quilladin is the worst overall middle stage. but this is all subjective and design based so your opinion is just as valid.
This has some takes in it that I completely disagree with. Lol. A lot of these options really make sense for being the middle evolution and work well with the line that they were given.
One of my fav mid evos is Klang, because it adds a new face, effectively an evolution. Klinklang simply adds some scrap that gets in the way of the design
I love Sobble and Inteleon, but i have to agree with you on Drizzile, I evolved my Leona as soon as I could to get past the middle stage and to the sleek secret agent lizard!
I love Drizzile so much. I really don't get why so many people hate it or see it as bad. I don't even really like the Kalos starters or games but I like Drizzile a lot.
Nice List! I would love to see regional variants of the Rhydon and Dragonair lines to see them fix the final stages. Also I’m a big fan of Doublade and Haunter as middle stages.
Dragonair is such a great character design that it deserves to have a branch evolution like Slowpoke is to Slowking. Dragonair could evolve into a Dragon/Psychic type with its own abilities and it could look similar to Milotic in its final form.
You critique some Pokémon, like Morgrem, for not bridging the gap between the first and final stages, yet you praise others like Dragonair for being great standalone designs that don’t need the final stage to be appreciated 🤔 Would have been nice to see some consistency behind the rationale.
I would say Gabite is my favorite middle evolution. It connects Gible and Garchomp perfectly while looking great in its own rite. If Garchomp is a Land-Shark-TRex, Gabite is a Lannd-Shark-Velociraptor.
Dragonite was actually designed before Dratini and Dragonair. Dragonite was already designed and someone else was told to design a baby and middle stage dragon to evolve into it and this is what we got - probably poor internal communication.
Gurdurr using steel works considering their "roles". Shield Pokedex: Gurdurr excels at demolition-construction is not its forte. In any case, there's skill in the way this Pokémon wields its metal beam. Instead of building stuff like Timburr and Conkeldurr do, Gurdurr specializes in demolition.
Rhydon still to this day is one of my favorites its just such a simple but cool and intimidating design. Just a shame how hard it is to use it in the game with it beeing so slow and having two 4 times weaknesses.
My favorite middle evolutions which I like better than the final evolution: Dragonair, Electabuzz, Magmar, Rhydon, Whirlipede, Flaaffy, Grovyle, Quilava, Doublade, Haunter, Seadra, Magneton, JIgglypuff,. Then there are the first stage pokemon that are better than their evolved forms: Foongus, Elgyem, Impidimp, Trapinch, Binacle, Misdreavus, Frillish, Lileep, AIpom, Porygon, Sentret, Lickitung, Rolycoly, Diglett, Togepi, Tangela, Zigzagoon , Klink , Basculin, Wooloo, Stantler, Cutiefly, Anorith, Scyther, Hoothoot, Remoraid, Dwebble, Snubbull, Chinchou, Sneasel, Geodude, Pineco, Nosepass, Teddiursa, Qwilfish, Hoppip, Of all others I like the final stage most.
Isn’t the reason dragonite evolves from dragonair because of that one old tale that a sea dragons dream is to become a “real” dragon and once it is able to fly it turns into a “real” dragon?
Actually every member of Impidimpl-line has same body type, just more and more hair; Grimsnarls' hair acts like muscles, being nod to old belief that person’s power, health, strength etc. are in their hair.
There is something really hilarious that you showed what grimsnarl looks like under all the hair (skinny just like the rest of its line) yet you still called it buff. That’s just it’s hair. Like bayonetta
![[GYM LEADER BATTLE TOWER] - Die ARENALEITER 1-4 zeigen sich!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HbJLOx7FCHM/mqdefault.jpg)
Love how he uses Magmar as an example of "growing pains" even though it's the oldest member of it's family and the others were tacked on after the fact.
Even as a single stage Magmar had clear growing pains...
@@emperorcubone that’s an interesting point because I think Magmar does represent the early growing pains of Pokémon design in general. And that’s why I love it- It shows how the designers used to think about Pokémon when they were just starting to put a concept for this series together
@@JohnnyHikesSW To be fair, I don't think pokemon designs are strictly better now than they used to be. I think they especially did monstrous designs better back in the early days. They really put the "mon" in "Pokemon." As EC kind of pointed out in the video, Rhydon is great example of what earlier designs excelled at. Despite obviously being fictional and exaggerated, it looks almost like a creature that could feasibly exist in the wild. Rhyperior, on the other hand, is a cluttered mess of a design. You can tell they were struggling to improve on Rhydon, and it seems their solution was to just throw a bunch of extra crap on it, like an extra drill horn, a ton of orange bricks for armor, a wrecking ball tail and cannon arms. It really looks like some mad scientist took a Rhydon and turned it into some kind of construction-themed cyborg. My best guess is that happened because starting around Gens 3 and 4 they began pushing towards the sleeker, sometimes plushier, sometimes human-like designs and Rhyperior is what happens when you try and graft those kind of features onto a more animalistic design.
I'm confused why he has swadloon and hattrem, they are totally adorable and oozing personality
@@matthewzakrzewski1797 agreed with those two.
I think Haunter is an amazing design. It captures the ethereal nature of gen I ghosts much better than the two-footed Gengar, with an evil grin and disconnected hands. Yet, it manages to be funny and loveable in its anime depiction. It is the exact kind of otherworldly being you would expect to find when using a Silph Scope.
I was looking for this comment! Much prefer Haunter's design to Gengar
HAHAHAHA!
Best laugh. :D
@@JOCoStudio1 same, honestly I think gengar and haunter (just there designs) should be swapped, gengar looks like gas forming into a body, then it becomes bigger, and it's hands detach and get claws. Overall I'd just prefer if gengar was the middle and haunter was the final.
Haunter is also owner for the single best sprites from both Gens 1 and 2.
Haunter > gengar
I fricking love Swadloon, looking like its snuggled under a blanket with some hot cocoa or tea. And Sealeo looks better (IMO) than Walrein.
I love Swadloon's expression! Looks so grumpy, like someone woke them up from deep sleep ☺️
Swadloon is just, weird? It's just a very strange way to do a cocoon, but then again so is Whirlipede. Although the one time I used a Sewaddle it liked me so much that it was only a Swadloon for one level and then evolved immediately so I didn't get to really use it...
@@emperorcubone I usually like how they try to make the cocoons more interesting, changing it up a bit; I think Silcoon/Cascoon and Metapod are the weakest of the cocoon designs, being only one colour and really not doing much to give them character, they just stay really close to real life, whereas the later designs tend to give the cocoons more mobility, like they really can fight themselves as well. This makes Spewpa the weakest cocoon beyond gen 3 for me as well, going back again to the weaker more motionless cocoon (all of this is also reflected in their movepools). I really can't describe why I like them so much beyond that. Swadloon is just a lil guy.
@@emperorcubone I would argue that the middle stage acting as a seemless transition doesn’t make sense from a thematic perspective, because growth is not just a physical process but an emotional process as well. And I think awkward middle states represent the emotional aspect of growing up (or, more generally, experiencing a transformation in your life) really well
@@emperorcubone everytime i see someone using a sewadle they literally just stay with swadloon for one level, because for some reason the swadloon loves you so much that they evolve into leavanny almost immediatly.
Fun fact: Lampent used to be the final evolution of the line before Chandelure existed. In development, the first stage of the line was literally just a flame, or a will-o-wisp, and Litwick was the middle stage.
Hmm, that'd be cool, but maybe they didn't because of the move already called Will-o-wisp?
@@emperorcubone Or maybe literally just a flame with eyes is a bit bare and a little lame.
Kakuna for me proves how simplicity can add a lot to a middle stage design. It was very difficult to create a half-menacing, half-cute cocoon design that could distinguish itself enough from Metapod and represent the transition from Weedle to Beedrill. Yet, with a brighter colour, dark eyes and more triangles, they pulled it perfectly. Especially for a low resolution display like that of RBY (remember back in the day kakuna sprites even had small claws).
I always wanted the claws to come back so Kakuna could learn moves other than harden.
It still has the claws, they're just tucked in to the spot where it looks like a tie
Kakuna actually does have claws in all its depictions, it just holds them to its chest most of the time (that "tie" it appears to wear is actually its forelimbs). The gen 1 sprites are the only ones which depict them extended.
I too am a fan of the original cocoons.
Metaphor for whatever reason is one of my favorite gen 1 designs.
I completely disagree about Morgrem
partly because in my mind Grimmsnarl only looks bulky because he is making its hair look like muscles
but it's really just a tall thin boy covered in hair
and yes the pink and green do clash
but that is also kinda the point with it being a dark/fairy prankster pokemon
So tell me, exactly which one represents the Dark type, the bright pink or the bright green?
@@emperorcubone colors are the only way types are represented now? And who said ignore all the hair?
@@emperorcubone the being a mischevious demon goblin thing engulfed in black hair is not enough dark type?
@@emperorcubone Color does not denote a Pokemon's type, strictly speaking. I recall someone thought Inkay should be a water type because it's blue, when I personally would more make that connection based on it being a squid. A similar example can be seen with 3 different steel type Pokemon in Bronzong, Metagross and Lucario, all of which are largely blue in coloration rather than a more metallic color like silver or gray. Having said that, certain types are often associated with certain colors, but it's by no means a hard and fast rule that they need to have a particular color to represent their type
I love Morgrem and it's signature move is perfect for it in my opinion. I was so excited about having it on my team and it lead my party ... until it evolved. I don't like a single thing about Grimmsnarl and honestly feel this like is almost as disconnected as the dragonair line.
The first two are small thin tricksters. The final is a big buff monster. It doesn't fit with the line at all stylistically. Morgrem is a perfect continuation of Impidimp and looks just like I would expect impidimps older brother to look
Okay, minor disagree on Drizzile, if only because that line is one of my favorites, and as a kid who cried a lot, got into emo during its heyday, and grew up to be significantly more confident, I appreciate the arc they went for with it.
Favorite middle evolution: shout out to Doublade! I ended up using one in my second X playthrough and just gave it an Eviolite, no disrespect to Aegislash, I love Aegislash. But what can I say, I’m a dual wielder at heart.
Are you a serial murderer now?
An awesome line indeed!
Doublade with eviolite is a menace!
I don’t mind Drizzile either.
It does deviate a bit but not in a bad way.
I'll say it: Dragonair is superior in design in every way to Dragonite.
Totally agree! The Shiny is way better too...
Milotic looks like how the dratini/dragonair line always should have turned out in a 3rd form. Maybe, one day we will get a divergent evolutionary pathway for Dratini.
As a dragonite fan,I respect you.:)
I feel something to note regarding dragonair->dragonite
Its based on a wyrm, which is basically a dragon but snake. And i think its showing a wyrm changing into a true western dragon
@@everetthopper884 I know, but I don't think it makes it much better. It could have easily stayed a wyrm or turned into an asian dragon (lung, I think?)
Hard to believe Grovyle wasn't on this list!
Same here!! Shocked actually that it wasn't even mentioned.
Did I just not make it clear enough that I already did this list years ago with all different Pokemon?
@@emperorcubone link to that one?
@@emperorcubone you mentioned it, but my take was that since that list was old your opinions changed and those Pokémon don’t apply anymore. I see what you mean now though
@@emperorcubone You said that you have covered this topic before, but not that you wouldn't use the same mons again though.
“#1 Best, Bayleef”
**Rock eyebrow raise with Vine Thud**
I think most middle evolutions are usually fine, some really don’t work though
Maybe some Pokemon would be better without them? We've got some big jumps like Shroomish to Breloom, or Bergmite to Avalugg...
@@emperorcubone Bergmite and Avalugg are fine.
@@emperorcubone yeah. Id love pidove -> unfeasant
@@KrispyKitty66 but tranquil is the best of the line. It’s perfect that mix of cute and cool that a middle stage needs
@@cryptidclaws3640 true
I’m so glad Braixen was seen as one of the best middle stages. Fennekin is my favorite Fire-type starter evolution line, and Braixen is not only my favorite Fire-type but my main back when I played Pokkén. So that makes me very happy. :)
I like these Best/Worst lists - seems like it's been a while
That's what I thought making it as well! :)
I was like,"Another Top 6 Best & Worst list? Let's goooo!"
Morgrem and Sizzile seem more likely representing phases of life, not so much a physical evolution but more of a maturity evolution, similar to how people adapt/change personality/interests over time
What the heck is Sizzile?
@@gregorywood7554drizzile
This list, strangely, did get me thinking about two-stage Pokémon lines, and how there are a lot that are really great like Tyrantrum and Salazzle. Think there could be a video dedicated to them?
Possibly; there are certainly plenty of options that would be worthy of a spotlight!
Fun fact! According to the designers, Lampent was going to be originally the final form, with Litwick being the middle stage and the base stage being a small flame without artwork. Eventually Chandelure would be created instead and the line would end up the way we know and love it.
I admit I do really like Drizzile lmao
Though I love the Sobble line in general, a ton more than the other Galar starters
Me too!
I super love Drizzile, and tbh, it's because of the anime. I'm not big on Galar, but I do have a weakness for emo bangs nowadays.
I wanna buy a plush of him one day.
Sobble line was my favorite to use in Galar and I don’t mind the first two design wise.
It’s Inteleon I have an issue with 😂
Braixen proving that 2nd stages should get their evolutionary stats but keeping their looks would be a revolutionary step if game freak wanted
You know, that would actually be a true revolution of the battle system, unlike the constantly thrown out gimmicks, but if base stages could have fully evolved stats, that could change a lot!
@@emperorcubone would feel like an easy step for them
So surprising to me that Grovyle, my favorite Pokemon of all time wasn't even on the list!! From how cool, chill and entertaining Ash's Grovyle was in the anime to how great was it's presence in PMD.
For me it's always better that Sceptile!
I agree with all of this 100%, and I don't want to spoil my old video, but you might be pleased with the outcome...
@@emperorcubone Pleased to hear that then. But you should have mentioned that in this video, that you wouldn't use the mons from your older one.
I love that Sobble's evolutionary line is pretty much a character arc as Sobble goes from being emotional and depressed to being a confident assassin. I just wish Drizzile was a better transition to Inteleon
Rhydon is really strong, they deserve their placement
Rhydon dee-
@@RiftyLuca -eems you worthy.
Tbh, I really love Morgrem and Im sad to see them so low. It might not be the best link between the two, but in terms of design I really prefer Morgrem to both of the others. Justice for the emo goblin
I think I would actually prefer if Morgrem WERE a single stage as the lone first Fairy/Dark type; I would appreciate it a lot more, but as it stands it's trying to hold onto two other Pokemon that barely resemble it...
Finally, a fellow Fennekin line enjoyer. I won't lie, I would've clicked off Braixen was a worse.
I don't think Gurdurr is that bad. I had a Gurdurr in my team and i was unable to evolve it, because i have no friends to trade with. I was starting to lose hope in him, so i replaced him with different pokemon for my team when i was trying to beat the elite 4. But i just decided to take him and he somehow helped me beat Unova elite 4. This guy is strong. And i don't find his design weird, i actually find it kinda cool. And i don't think it's weird that when it evolves it goes back to having concrete. Some minerals are heavier than metals and naturally made pillars can be much more heavier than steel.
Pretty sure concrete isn't natural though; if it were they would have called it Stonurr! Wait... that probably wouldn't work for a kids game...
@@emperorcubone even if it's made of concrete. The fact that he is not just lifting 1 but two pillars, is the fact that he's gotten much stronger than Gurdurr.
Gurdurr is my favourite from the line. I wouldn't evolve it, even if I could :D
Plus the design is based on a strongman, and a clown which is why they have the big ol red nose
I agree with most of these, but Croconaw? That's nuts!
I always deliberately wait for Croconaw to reach level 34 or so, just so I can use the guy/ or gal a bit longer. Imo Croconaw is one of THE best starter middle Evos we have to this day.
Yeah Croconaw is awesome. He doesn’t like it because of a spot pattern? Lol dumb reason. Caveman croc is just fine.
Tbh, I never even saw the "caveman" like look until he said it in his vid...I still like the mon, though. Because I prefer Feraligatr over either Johto starter! :P
Sobble went from that crying child to a quiet kid and got influenced by emo friend
Loooovvee Dewott by far my 2nd fav stage for a starter. Also props to Vigoroth, very underrated
I always found Ivysaur to have more grit than the middle stage of its two fellow starters.
Like this vicious guard dog you are rewarded with, for evolving your starter for the first time 💪🏼🐸
It is a fighter is Smash!
Loudred is so underrated. One of the best middle stages ever.
I do agree that the design for Dragonite comes out of nowhere as a final evo kinda like how Trapinch really looks nothing like it's later evolutionary stages but I also feel like Dragonair falls into that trap of some middle stages just looking like bigger first stage forms.
I didnt realize that this was posted today, awesome timing
1:50 Chandelure is my favorite Pokémon and its line is one of, if not, my favorite line in Pokémon.
I'm really glad you acknowledge their awesomeness!
I don’t see how Dragonite takes the blame for deviating from the trajectory set by Dratini and Dragonair, yet Grimsnarl does not take the blame for doing the exact same thing
I myself am not the biggest fan of Drizzile but I still believe it makes sense as a middle stage. As we all know, Sobble's whole thing from the start was being sad so it growing up to be an angsty teen because it's sad makes a whole lot of sense. It also explains the color shift too, if it's going for an emo look then that's why its colors are darker, emos as a whole are known for standing out and being different, that's their thing.
Then when it evolves into Inteleon it's gotten over its sadness and is now more confident in itself and has gotten its life together. Sobble's whole evolution line is one big character arc, one with a beginning, a character low point in the third act and a redemption at the end.
About the Gurdurr debacle you brought up, its all about the AGE of them. Wood is a new short lasting structure, metal is from the industrial revolution(new aged building material), and the oldest buildings we see in history are made of concrete (see ancient roman buildings)
Even though I don't like Delphox and Meganium evolution line I agree that Braixen and Bayleaf fits well as a middle stage
fun fact: galar is literally the first region since kanto that i have genuinely adored every form of every starter. Drizzile might even be my favorite of the gen 8 starter middle stages. so basically, the assertion that "no one is really big on the galar starters" is not true. i fell in love with all of them and then was absolutely shocked when i found out most people didn't like them
For the most part I never really had an issue with not liking the final stage evolutions. I usually found myself not liking the middle stages so much myself. But I do have two exceptions and one of them is Loudred as well. The other is Combusken in case you were curious. In both cases they just look much better than their final stages to me.
Combusken is a bold choice, many people hate it and easily say Blaziken is way better, so I admire your courage!
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I really like Quilladin. I mean, it’s not my favorite middle evolution, that honor would have to go to either Grovyle or Wartortle, but I think Quilladin is pretty cute, and I just love the entire Chespin line in general.
Anyways, my least favorite middle evolution is probably Brionne, I don’t know why. Just not a big fan of it lol
I do not care for Brionne either, so you're good!
I kind of adore Brionne...and I strongly dislike the entire Chespin line. It's funny how we all have different preferences. Lol.
Quilladin is a funny little round lad
I disagree with most of this list, but it's neat to hear your explanations. I'm glad there are so many designs and so many ways to interpret them, there is always something for everyone
If you redo this, I think we can all agree Floragato should be on here
For sure; I didn't even pick it but it's the best one from Gen 9!
I like Croconaw. And the fact that he has like a caveman look only further shows how he's devolving/going feral. 😉
In my opinion I prefer it when each stage is unique and stand out from eachother. I think if a middle stage pokemon is only a transition stage then it ends up being forgettable or feeling redundant.
True, which is why some like Rhydon are so great, because they stand on their own as well!
I really believe Delphox has been overshadowed by Greninja since the very first time! I get people love Braixen just like they love Grovyle more, if not equally, than Sceptile, but Delphox is a powerful wizard 🪄 it's literally the Harry Potter Pokémon! How can someone hate it?
Also, I love Drizzile so much. I love its colours scheme and the overall design and it evolves into a beautiful spy (yeah I love Inteleon as well)!
I shall not take this Drizzile slander, I'll give reasons
1: the water balloons it uses pop and squart out similar to how snipbshit swuarts out, making the transition into inteleons weapon more valid
2: it does have transition signs from sobble to inteleon, it's hands be one mittin hands because they will develop more in the final Evo, same for feet, the tail is longer, the pattern on its belly foreshadows inteleons, and the hair is actually the same, just a little different, the yellow becomes the two drooping hairs, and the line the yellow was holding on to is the hair at the top. Heck the green eyelids become inteleons yellow eyelids.
3: it's personality does go with the line, sobble is a cry baby, Drizzile is more depressed, becoming more like a dark emo as it grows, and that sadness makes it a cold hearted spy as inteleon
4: it's a crime that drizz is apparently the worst, but pignite exists, cause if you actually want a bad middle Evo, that's #1, cause pignite is legit dog crap.
As you could tell drizz is one of my favorite pokemon of all time. Jigglypuff is first, but Drizzile is right in second place for me.
If you don't like that you'd hate to hear my thoughts on Quaxly...
@@emperorcubone "if I had a penny for everytime a person slandered one of my fav water starters, I'd have two pennies, which isn't much but it's strange that it happened twice."
Staravia is one of my favourite middle stages 😂 I would always delay evolving it until it learnt Brave Bird, and I actually prefer the design to Staraptor.
Also in Platinum, it is fantastic in the Battle Factory, I definitely owe my Gold and Silver prints to it
Yeah I disagree with his analysis. I think Staravia is really good because it's the middle stage/more mature, more edgy "teen" phase: growing up from the cute baby Starly and evolving into the fierce and strong adult Staraptor.
I love staravia too! It looks sweet
I will say I do appreciate it more than an *actual teen phase like they try with recent starters, such as Dartrix or Raboot. I just wish Staravia had a personality of it's own; it's basically a blank slate, when a Pokemon like say Lairon dose adolescence much better...
Starter pokemon tend to have the most hit-or-miss middle evolutions I think. You've got your floragatos and your dewotts right alongside your crocalors and quilladins, with plenty of mehs all around, from your old charmeleons to to the raboots and quaxwells of today.
I highly disagree with the Spewpa one, and it's sad that no one seems to understand its concept. Vivillon and Spewpa's concept it's based on pixel art (most notable in Vivillon design), and how in sixth gen game freak stopped using pixel art and started using 3d models. The little squares on the Spewpa's fur are meant to represent pixels on a whiteboard, and the different patters of Vivillon are the results of the pixel art that started in Spewpa, that's why it's a really cohesive middle evolution that solidify the concept of its evolution.
Even so, there's like 13 better ways they could have made a pixel cocoon then just copy pasting the head of the previous stage on top...
Chespins Middle Evolution will always be The Worse! Keept it a Chespin as long as I could to quickly skip it and move on to Chesnaught!
Hah, that's a good idea actually! I did a run where I never evolved Braixen, trained it with an Everstone all the way to level 100.
I'm just gonna assume that you were joking about the can-opener thing.
Trust me he isnt
Braixen made me quit the fennekin line and go for greninja
I don't know about you but braxian creeps me out
@@disconcerningcitizen2224 agreed. It’s too humanoid.
staravia is a person in their akward teen phase
gurdurr's hair is messy cuz when you work construction it turns like that, a big dirty mess, and most building use more concrete than steel, so the biggest evolution using concrete makes sense
Croconaw using cave man aestetichs makes sense when u realize how old crocodiles are compared to alligators
a crybaby getting emo and rebellious only to tidy up as an adult fits the sobble line
I love this content! Keep up the good work
Is is Wartortle’s fault that he gets ear wings and a cloudy tail that isn’t present in the other 2 stages or is it Blastoise’s fault that he didn’t continue using them?
I mean, Blastoise at least HAS ears when Squirtle doesn't so it's not totally gone. Maybe it's like a molting that happens after they show up?
He did a crime not including grovyle, dewwott and quilava in the list
You couldn't be more true!
Dude, I did this topic years ago, clearly I covered some of them before...
7:17 Croconaw is my favorite middle stage starter evolution. I find it the perfect blend between Totodile and Feraligatr.
*Sighs in relief, wipes sweat from brow*
Thank god he didn't say Thwackey was bad
No I actually think Thwackey get far too much hate, I didn't mind it when I used it.
@@emperorcubone
I feel like he's better than Rillaboom, he could work well as a 2-stage
I love the Chandalure line
My first time playing White 2 I kept my Lampent the whole game, it was pretty great!
@@emperorcubone an excellent design
When Sword and Shield leaks were a thing, I saw Drizzle and thought it was the shiny form and that the normal form would follow the blue and yellow pattern. That's how bad the neon green is.
Not sure rhydon should have counted, as it was designed as a final form, which gives it an edge a lot of the others don't have.
As for drizzile, I more see its line as being akin to the dratini line, as 'that sad pokémon' turning emo when it reaches its middle stage makes sense, it's just drizzile > inteleon which seems left field (I guess, looking back, the idea is that emos are often seen as kind of cryptic and liking to slink into the shadows, but that isn't particularly intuitive).
Dragonair looks like a rare Pokémon by itself!
I actually enjoy when mid-stages that have unique features, greatly enjoying Croconaw much more than Feraligator actually. I think the caveman aesthetic while random makes sense for how aggressive the line can be.
I love the Kanto starter middle stage but I find Johto much cooler. Shame they have to REMOVE QUILAVA'S FLAMES IN THE 3D
Yeah, luckily Legends: Arceus helped a lot by adding the flames most of the time, so hopefully that will carry on going forward...
@@emperorcubone Hopefully. Also I am glad it's you who commented and not some wrinky dink poser telling I one something
This brought me so much joy.
I LOVE your videos! This one seemed so subjective that it made me laugh & I really needed it (:
something I love is that no matter how unpopular a pokemon is it will always have it's fans; case and point, morgrem is one of my favorites, he might not bridge the gap well but I love him
Oh for sure; I made a crack a week or two ago about there being at least one Heatmor fan and like dozen people commented that they or someone they knew loved the thing!
I love how you give opinions on a ton of other middle evolutions throughout the video
I got all the way to the end of the video and was like am I the only Bayleaf fan and then u redeemed me
Where's my boy Dusclops? Dude is such a good middle stage, he is better than his evolution in competitive by a mile!
13:21 Those are called “blunts.” 😂
Loudred is my favorite Pokemon, I'm so glad to see it here :D
I will say this in defense of Spewpa, because I think it's a good representation of the real world inspiration for the mon. It's supposed to be a bagworm. Instead of growing a full cocoon, these little guys grab little bits of plant matter around themselves like a bag in order to disguise themselves and look like something inedible, with just a little hole at one end so the can reach out to move and eat. They missed the mark in terms of color scheme, but it's Pokémon.
Suprasingly, Galar has the most best starter mid-stages with 2. I prefer Thwackey and Raboot over Rilaboom and Cinderace. The situation where I prefer mid-stage over fully evolved happened 7 times with Graveler, Haunter, Seadra, Pupitar, Gothorita, Sliggoo and Steenee but only once with a starter, Braixen
I don't really care for Raboot, but Thwackey does get excess hate...
Really? Thwacky? It looks way too goofy and simple
I love raboot, but I’ve never seen anything positive about thwackey
Interesting opinions. I personally like Staravia and think Quilladin is the worst overall middle stage. but this is all subjective and design based so your opinion is just as valid.
YESS BRAIXENN AS YOU SHOULD!! literally my favorite middle stage starter and favorite fire type pokemon I love her so much 😌❤️🔥
This has some takes in it that I completely disagree with. Lol. A lot of these options really make sense for being the middle evolution and work well with the line that they were given.
One of my fav mid evos is Klang, because it adds a new face, effectively an evolution. Klinklang simply adds some scrap that gets in the way of the design
I love Sobble and Inteleon, but i have to agree with you on Drizzile, I evolved my Leona as soon as I could to get past the middle stage and to the sleek secret agent lizard!
I felt so bad for Hop once I saw it in our mid-game rival battle, and of course poor Sobble...
I LITERALLY DIDNT KNOW SPEWPA WAS SCATTERBUG'S EVOLUTION I THOUGHT IT WAS A VARIANT LMAOOO
I like how you play the music of the generation of the pokemon you're talking about.
Helps with the mood!
Bro tried to cook but forgot to turn on the fire
I love Drizzile so much. I really don't get why so many people hate it or see it as bad. I don't even really like the Kalos starters or games but I like Drizzile a lot.
Nice List! I would love to see regional variants of the Rhydon and Dragonair lines to see them fix the final stages.
Also I’m a big fan of Doublade and Haunter as middle stages.
Dragonair is such a great character design that it deserves to have a branch evolution like Slowpoke is to Slowking.
Dragonair could evolve into a Dragon/Psychic type with its own abilities and it could look similar to Milotic in its final form.
I agree with the Bayleef line and makes sense
You critique some Pokémon, like Morgrem, for not bridging the gap between the first and final stages, yet you praise others like Dragonair for being great standalone designs that don’t need the final stage to be appreciated 🤔 Would have been nice to see some consistency behind the rationale.
I really like the Rillaboom and Cinderace lines, and I don't think I'm alone. The problem isn't the Galar staters altogether, it's Sobble line.
Idk what the uploader was smoking, but The Scorbunny line is beloved by many people, so you are indeed not alone.
I would say Gabite is my favorite middle evolution.
It connects Gible and Garchomp perfectly while looking great in its own rite.
If Garchomp is a Land-Shark-TRex, Gabite is a Lannd-Shark-Velociraptor.
What? Staravia is better than Starly. But I agree on Laudred, I always forget it has a third stage.
Number one best: Bayleef
...Bruh, Grovyle is *RIGHT THERE*
This!! It's my fav mon of all time!
Oh I do love Grovyle, but that was the top one 5 years ago, so I chose 12 new Pokemon.
Love to see some appreciation for Loudred
Dragonite was actually designed before Dratini and Dragonair. Dragonite was already designed and someone else was told to design a baby and middle stage dragon to evolve into it and this is what we got - probably poor internal communication.
Gurdurr using steel works considering their "roles".
Shield Pokedex: Gurdurr excels at demolition-construction is not its forte. In any case, there's skill in the way this Pokémon wields its metal beam.
Instead of building stuff like Timburr and Conkeldurr do, Gurdurr specializes in demolition.
No honorable mentions from my hoenn starter babies? 🥲
How Grovyle wasn't on this list?!
Guys, you're acting like I didn't cover this in the old video years ago. If you haven't seen it, you'll be pleased with the rankings...
@@emperorcubone Apologies, probably haven't watched the video yet
Rhydon still to this day is one of my favorites its just such a simple but cool and intimidating design. Just a shame how hard it is to use it in the game with it beeing so slow and having two 4 times weaknesses.
My favorite middle evolutions which I like better than the final evolution: Dragonair, Electabuzz, Magmar, Rhydon, Whirlipede, Flaaffy, Grovyle, Quilava, Doublade, Haunter, Seadra, Magneton, JIgglypuff,.
Then there are the first stage pokemon that are better than their evolved forms: Foongus, Elgyem, Impidimp, Trapinch, Binacle, Misdreavus, Frillish, Lileep, AIpom, Porygon, Sentret, Lickitung, Rolycoly, Diglett, Togepi, Tangela, Zigzagoon , Klink , Basculin, Wooloo, Stantler, Cutiefly, Anorith, Scyther, Hoothoot, Remoraid, Dwebble, Snubbull, Chinchou, Sneasel, Geodude, Pineco, Nosepass, Teddiursa, Qwilfish, Hoppip,
Of all others I like the final stage most.
Staravia is the awkward middle child pokemon
Quilladin nowhere to be seen in worst, my day is saved
Isn’t the reason dragonite evolves from dragonair because of that one old tale that a sea dragons dream is to become a “real” dragon and once it is able to fly it turns into a “real” dragon?
Actually every member of Impidimpl-line has same body type, just more and more hair; Grimsnarls' hair acts like muscles, being nod to old belief that person’s power, health, strength etc. are in their hair.
There is something really hilarious that you showed what grimsnarl looks like under all the hair (skinny just like the rest of its line) yet you still called it buff. That’s just it’s hair. Like bayonetta