[PSR][T-182] Survivors of the Super Mergers of the 1990s: Union Pacific & BNSF | Trains 21
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- Precision Scheduled Railroading is all the talk of the railroading community and its effects can be felt anywhere a pair or railroad tracks exist.. The concept made (in)famous by E. Hunter Harrison has permeated every Class 1 except BNSF who wisely has chosen to proceed with extreme caution.. In this 5 or 6 part series (we'll see how it goes) I give my thoughts about it and where I feel it's taking us.
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This is why BNSF is my favourite Class 1. They want to move forward, but, take precautions to make themselves a force to be reckoned with.
Penn Central: I'll just check out today's profit, AAaand theres no money in here ha ha, how delightful
IronHorse Rail Production's LMAO
I want to nominate this video for an independent documentary award. I am serious. Just a fantastic job once again AC!🏆🏆🏆
Thank God we have model railroad modelers who have better operation and history for their railroads than the current class-1 railroads
Nobody: Conrail: *B U Y A L L T H E R A I L R O A D S T H E N G E T B O U G H T*
My favorite “failed” merger was between the Union Pacific and Norfolk Western even though I don’t think it was ever proposed officially I’ve read up on it and there’s plenty of pictures from the time 1970ish that show a lot of NW trains with UP power on them
The late Dave Madden, former Santa Fe engineer and retired BNSF engineer, used the closer sounding "Sufferin' Pacific" rather than Struggling Pacific.
WOW, I was just thinking today, that I would like to see you do something for the West Coast railroads. Then I thought well AC's in Pennsylvania and he's probably just going to stick with East Coast Railroad. Then I get this notice that you sent out today and it deals deeply into the mergers of the West Coast railroads. I thought it was excellent, gave me some insight into the Union Pacific and the goings-on in these mergers. In my opinion this is good stuff. If you are into model railroading, railfanning or both and you want to know about the goings-on, reasons and debacles that these railroads seem to commit. I would check out my man AC's RUclips channel. Very informative stuff AC, keep up the good work.
I wonder how things would be different if the SPSF had come to exist.
Are we gonna talk about the conrail split between CSX and NS of 1999
Everything to make the shareholder happy and get a over paid payout. There is no loyalty given to workers. Soon enough there will be no trainmen operating the trains. Starnet will run everything. Excellent video AC. I'm glad I did get to see some of railroads glories.
This should also be a video for sale. It's very intertaing.
Overnite Transportation was owned by UP. They were running intermodal for us coast to coast and during the 90's, they lost many loaded trailers and containers of ours. They eventually spun us off and we were stand alone and profitable until UPS bought us in 2005.
Then sold again
Very interesting video, and well put together! Close friends worked at SP and they knew something dreadful was going to happen. UP was the only train that ran by my house in the High Desert of S. California.
AC,
You must have put an incredible amount of work into this video. Learned many things in this video about the UP-SP merger.
As a long time business owner in the chemical industry, I have a few horror stories of my own concerning UP’s incompetence in handling chemical traffic in the Gulf region in the mid to late 1990s.
Where does your business ship from?
@@AbelG8781 from the western states, but two of my major suppliers were located in the Houston/Pasadena area. The rail situation was so bad that I had to order tank trucks because my tank cars full of chemicals were delayed for months. The freight cost difference between truck and rail was enough to give me a few headaches!
@@fritzd2116 LOL I live in Pasadena its nothing but refineries/chemical plants here. Wow I didnt think UP was struggling in this region considering how heavy their business is here. Then again it was during their merger years so I'm sure lots of change was happening for them.
If CN and BNSF merged that will be the dream but also a Canadian and west coast monopoly nightmare
I notice something the last Decade or so, that Union Pacific has been very hostile towards passenger rail. In San Antonio, they ended the Austin San Antonio commuter rail, they refused money from California for repairs in the Sierras, and recently they said that they're not interested in running the Metra trains. Do you have any info to add to this?
That was a lot of information that was well presented!!! Very informative and a pleasure to watch and learn. Thanks AC!!
Same. Southern pacific used too be in industry CA but in one day all of them where painted to Union Pacific
I saw an SP locomotive once in the nineties while visiting family in Arkansas
SP was king there
Always looking forward to your informative videos 👍👍
Overall the real issue UP had with the SP merger was they didn't GAIN much out of it. A lot of it was just track they already had/ran and so didn't get any new business out of the deal. Where as BNSF's merger was nearly ALL gained track, and is why BNSF is the largest RR today. Still, in the end, all the lines meet in Chicago, one of the larges yards around and where you will see locomotives from all the lines in one place.
Union Pacific vs BNSF western titans
Norfolk Southern vs CSX eastern titans
Now one that will scare everyone is a train from Vancouver, Can to Mexico City, Mex: CPKC
Corporate greed is to blame for most hardships with the railroad industry. Greed of a few people at the top. It's always the same story
As a driver for renzenbeger at the time I was really busy with work but I can also remember the crews working hard with both railroads
I’m a New Subscriber because this video sealed the deal. I have watched a 1/2 dozen of your videos and you are very consistent and full of Lots of very Interesting info. Great 👍 job, AC. Keep up the Strong Effort! 👍 Thanks!
4:43 Wrong. By the time the UP and SP merged, the NWP was owned by the North Coast Rail Authority. SP handed it over to the state in 1992. If UP owned NWP, it wouldn’t be in as sorry a state as it is today.
Surprising amount of very interesting information, will need to re-watch this a few times to settle it in. Put the bell chime to "All". Great channel!
You have a non-stop flow of recent Railroading History! This is Great!!
AC you need to get award for the work you do you are real person who no how to film real trains you are out there ever day no one can do better then AC
I had a friend who worked for U P aka uncle pete , the joke going around was U P we will Deliver, now when it will get there, or what shape it will be in, but it will get someday lol
And we're off!!! Superb first episode bud. Oh, I knew I wouldn't be disappointing. Imagine if Canadian Pacific would have been allowed to buy NS!? Hope i'm not letting anything out of your PSR bag.
If only we could have a coast to coast railroad in the US
Great video ! Loved it. Bob former S.P. employee.
This was fascinating and very well put together. 👌
KCS never happened until now ,huge trucker shortage that will help RR . I look for KCS lines to really get more volume once the merger with CP is going ,KCS buying Mexico RR really made them meat on the table that some one would eat up .
Very informative video A.C! Keep up the good work!
Nice video and thanks for sharing AC, Precision Scheduled Railroading is one of the most controversial topics that hit the railfan community, as well as the workforce. Great history because I didn’t know about half of the railroads you mentioned 😂
Rail's share of ton-miles, according to the 2017 Commodity Flow Survey, has risen to 46.6% in comparison to 43.0% by truck. Not bad at all, especially when you factor in that the majority of shipments travel 150 miles or less, where rail, as a mode, is not a consideration.
04:25 I like this video but Union Pacific didn't acquire all of those Railroads mentioned. Some were already merged into RRs which then UP acquired later on.
I like that you like the video but like I just told Mathew Smith.. I will quote again: "Through its lifespan, it went on to acquire a CONSORTIUM of other railroads including." Look up the definition of CONSORTIUM and then re-think (and preferably retract) the statement you made.
Regarding 12:32, while the ATSF did have joint control over the TP&W along with the Pennsy, eventually merging the company into it's system, the line was sold to a group of private investors and was made back into an independent railroad. Any former TP&W trackage that BNSF would run on would likely be minimal, and given that the company is no longer a part of AT/BNSF, I wouldn't really say it qualifies as a predecessor, and as far as I know, it's not thought of as such. Unrelated to the video, just something I thought I'd mention as people not native to the area don't seem to know much about it.
Great as always AC!
If NS keeps going the direction they're going. They're probably most likely gonna be the 1st one to go and i bet CP and CSX are gonna have a long flight over them.
CSX is in the process of self destructing.
Conrail 2.0
east syracuse csx yard, my home yard. :)
Dewitt yard, Mohawk Div
Excellent video my friend !!! 😉👍
Great video
i think csx came up with the idea of psr thanks csx /s
It was Hunter's pet project. CN was the protege, the others were victims of the inevitable implementation of the PSR's.
OH MY GOSH I love that lashup GE classic lashup power 😃😃
I had 2 SF units pass by my house (trailing saddly). Made my day! The units were BNSF 4704 and 4703.
@@BattleshipOrion nice
While the other Class 1's with PSR are in a self destructive state KCS/KCSM with PSR is actually Still Stable and will most likely Survive Being that they're the smallest class 1
Where did you get the SF sd70ace pic and the BN es44ac or a dash 9. Couldn't tell. Where did you?
Santa FACe
facebook.com/ACallForBNSFHeritage/
Oh great now we have to deal with another Hunter Harrison.
We all know the Santa Fe southern pacific [SPSF] did not survive
Brandonforums2020 what?? Actually it did just not as a railroad. The holding companies did merge. SP was placed into a trust pending the ICC decision which was not favorable. SP was then sold to the owner of the Rio Grande. Bottom line is there was never a Santa Fe Southern Pacific Railroad.
Sorry to tell you. If SPSF survived, it would have been curtains for UP. One word for SPSF....Domination!!!!
Nice ac I remember it well I live threw 96 threw southern pacific into large Union Pacific and Santa Fe bnsf see today I renumber seeing engineer working on trains in Spokane know new world of railroading coming to realize that now I am happy say been awesome see can’t for more to come
Add a coach (or caboose) for a "B" crew to rest on. Then they wouldn't have waste time waiting to re-crew, much less lose trains.
Trans continental trains in Australia run a crew car on most train's across the Nullabour, they stop every 8 hound change loco crew, some run fuel tank's on a flat car directly behind the loco's.
I started my railroad career in 1984 with the big friendly aka the ESPEE. Yes the employees was happy and spoiled. Violate a rule on the ESPEE means you had to buy the boss a 6-pack for a week as punishment. And we hated the yellow Borg aka union pacific. We was shocked about the Santa Fe merger but we was fighting mad about the yellow Borg becoming our boss. Those Mopac from LITTLE ROCK came in like steam rollers and it was not pretty. One of the few times I hated trains. They was arrogant fucks. Fired all the managers and wouldn't listen to any of the old espee bosses. The one main decision that lead to the NATIONWIDE railroad meltdown was U P decision to downgrade Englewood yard and huston. It was the hub of the chemical coast but the Mopac boys thought it was outdated and useless. Can you say dominoe effect. It was so bad that we borrowed NS train crews to help us move traffic in the south. Flew them in and put them up in motels for bout 6 months. It was an embarrassment . Plus all of espee motors was on there last leg which led to the 1000 unit order of SD70M'S in 2000. Espee had bought 25 years earlier in they was so damn well built that U.P. not only ordered over 1500 of them eventually but they wanted them built exactly to espee spects. When new they had a 98% availability rate out of the terminals. Better then the GE'S who's best rating was 96% on the a.c.'s -9's. Anyway the worst of the meltdown involved one incident in which the reverse merger talk started. For 2 weeks in the summer of 1999 we lost/misplaced a 4-engine 102 car train. Yes you read that right. Everyday for 2 weeks their were memos posted in every terminal asking employees have they seen this manifest train. Finally it was found in a siding in new Mexico, motors out of fuel because they was left idling. The crew has died on the law in the dispatcher had them park the train the siding, but didn't call a relief or make a notation about the train in his logs. Other dispatchers at the same desk thought the siding occupied by M-O-W equipment during that time. Finally a crewmember that was on that train passed by it on another run in finally figured the whole thing out. It was an embarrassing shit show back then and now with PSR it Deja vu all over again. One bright spot, those 1500 plus SD70M'S are all about 20 years in the only rebuilding they have needed was overhauling the radial trucks. Most are in storage but still able to pull freight with there original factory parts. When EMD was good. Ps, another video by the way.
Great video AC, thoroughly enjoyed. Not related to the video, but I have a question that I think you might know the answer to. Yesterday I saw a RBMN covered hopper numbered 9961 that was painted all black with an emblem on it that had a top hat and gloves with the text “anthracite aristocrat coal” on the side. What does this mean? And why is it on a covered hopper for grain and such and not s coal hopper?
I’m from Syracuse... go SU !
Loved their chocolate mike
You mean the Orange men
23:30 Major Class I Railroads
If anything the BNSF did there merger right. The only that would worsen the current situation for dear ol' grandad UP would either be them buying out an eastern class I, or BNSF and CSX (or NS) were to intermix traffic without going through a merger.
No, BNSF did not quite do their merger right. They narrowly avoided a massive strike in 1997 that arose over the BN side violating ATSF crew and locomotive agreements. I've spoken with many BNSF trainmen and MOWer's and they mentioned not only those problems, plus their disdain for Rob Krebs, but that the same problems the UP/SP were facing, BNSF was facing the exact same issues but not as publicly known.
>No American railroad has a coast to coast connection.
Meanwhile, in Canada!
Canadian National has a coast to coast Connection, and Canadian pacific used to, but I don't think CP does anymore, after the Dominion And Atlantic railway was abandoned in 1990.
They do.. They just bought the CMQ (Central Maine & Quebec).
At the close of Wall Street today 2/19/20, UP stock @ $182.10 a share, CSX $80.17 a share, and Norfolk Southern $209.16 a share. UP cutting jobs was one factor in their current stock price. It's all about the Benjamin's, folks. The people at the top get paid millions plus they have golden parachutes should they lose their jobs. The 'grunts' are disposable. The fewer grunts the better the bonus for the upper tier of management. Do not be surprised when crews are replaced with computers and trains run themselves. You can poo poo it, but the caboose and brakemen are gone on through freights. Dudes on the ground in yards can run engines by remote control, thus replacing more grunts.
I live on the cnw alco line but sorry to disappoint you but the cgw was absorbed by the cnw in the 1960's not the up. the up absorbed cnw in 1995
I'm not sorry to disappoint you.. I quote, "Through its lifespan, it went on to acquire a CONSORTIUM of other railroads including." Look up the definition of CONSORTIUM and then re-think (and preferably retract) the statement you made.
A sad state of affairs ac. Wondering how the trickle down effect will work?
UP absorbed a lot of America's small railroads.
Great work, AC.
As a model railroader who models the SP, maybe I ought to consider bankrupting my N scale empire? Just to be true to the prototype. What do you think?
Perhaps a better idea would be to side-step the “matrix” of ‘what-is’ and rewrite the future with the SP absorbing the UP. In my own N scale world, the CN never absorbed the WC and the WC lives on!
@@thomasboese3793 Because of a lack of operating capital ( I have other hobbies such as a 1968 Mustang and Amateur Radio) the SP is forced to make do with vintage power running on DC. So I guess I am already sorta modeling a prototype SP.
In my world the BNSF bought out CSX, and SP, and UP ended up absorbing Conrail, and NS. Also the Canadians never invaded leaving my favorite Class II, the DM&E alone, and they are the G&W in my world.
23:42 From T169
OK, now we know the rest of the story. I hope your not horse for a week - my head is about ready to explode though.....
Union Pacific is at fault for ruining the Southern Pacific and CNW railroads.
Edit: And are also the reason why CSX and NS decided to merge the best East coast railroad, that being Conrail.
Þhàñk for thè info òñ yhiß video
trains 21 why are rr's like up still around
well one reason, trains can haul longer loads than trucks and truck convoys themselves and go for longer distances on fuel, oly minor problem for rr's is crew changes, but truckers stop too so yeah both cant out beat each other and planes as they have mid flight stops and only cars pipelines and ships and conveyors can go longer distances and transport goods more faster, but those can have breakdowns and blockups etc, so now its all of these vs rr's vs the govment and fra and other things so its just gonna be a constant this is better than yours no we are better shut up all you we are better no we are better batttle until the end of world if you know what i mean and rr's are also selling more and more clasic and powerful vetran locos off to the scrap heap or leaser companies like hlcx, gecx and furx and crex and nrex and prlx, and risking themselves to go merge and then become bankrupt like penn central and then bought out and saved and swallowed up like what conrail was and then split and bought by other rr's like csx and ns, which ns sold all of their big blue conrail units
2 words: it sucks. End of story
We can all thank capitalism for this.
averwaverz Commie
averwaverz thank god for capitalism
All that matters to the executives is profit. Employees and customer satisfaction can screw off so long as their stocks go up for the following quarter!
And you want the China way you're stupid, USA is still the greatest country even with the stupid left trying to overrule it
Austin Turley Commies build better trains than capitalists so that’s not an insult.
Sure they wave the flag, but they have no loyalty to america
union pacifics flag engines: *am i a joke to you?*
yes up is a joke