The card hold was changed to $50 recently. A user on PS commented on Jan 7th on the Apex location, they didnt know ionna is not part of the ford charge and complained about the $75 hold and ionna mentioned they adjusted it accordingly from user feedback.
I believe that the stall on the far right is ADA compliant even if not marked. That’s why there’s a wider gap between the unmarked parking space and the hatched area. That extra room is the ADA compliance feature.
Shell Recharge does a $60 hold but it’s only for one day. It’s removed the next day and replaced by the actual charge. I’ve had GAS pumps do a $100 hold on premium gas pumps. On a credit card, I don’t see it being a problem unless a person has the card maxed out and is up against the credit limit.
@@thenetworkarchitectchannel I don’t mean to suggest DCFC sites right off interstates aren’t important. The folks selling gasoline proved that a long time ago.
Hi, Francis Energy holds $20, I thought that was wrong! I think why Teslas' handshake is so fast is that it allows the unit to start charging before the card actual approval! Customers will have to call in and make their options known. I still think Ionna will be a great place for the drivers of both CCS1 and NACS connectors without using an adaptor.
My recent road trip where I did this video on and also returned my son to school was all TesSC. As a non-Tesla member, I do get $20 holds each time I plug into a TesSC.
I'd want some clarification on the credit card holds, but I just can't see how they would place multiple holds. I would hope that they would recognize the card and not place an additional hold for subsequent charges. As much as I hate to say it, even $75 isn't out of line given around 50 cents per kWh and batteries that can easily pull >100 kWh in a single session.
I think this aspect of their service has yet to be finalized. Yet indications during the public beta did indicate the holds exist. During this trip I mostly charged at TesSC stations. They put a $20 hold each station for non-Tesla members. $75 is too much. I am guessing this flew under their radar and will be corrected as time goes on.
With the current scoring method, is it even possible to get a perfect score? You get a point for having other sites in close proximity but there's also a point for being 50 miles away from other chargers. You can't get both of these points as they oppose each other.
not really, and that is kinda the point. No site should be perfect. In my doing this, it seems a B is a very strong score. Mid C is about average. An A is pretty rare.
I agree. I’m glad Walter said Eric is relooking at this. It is fast emerging that there are 2 types of charging stations: interstate and local. There should be a review method for each. (Interstate chargers are rarely going to have the novelty point, and local chargers aren’t going to have the points for interstate proximity.). For what this site is, a local rechargery, it has absolutely EVERYTHING one would want. I give it A+ and 100%. I look forward to IONNA scoring 100% on ALL of the RELEVANT areas for interstate rechargeries too. This is like review sedans and taking away points because they don’t have a bed to haul dirt in them like a truck. 2 different things. IONNA is rocking. 40/50 is 80%. So that means nothing, (and Walter did it accurately if he follows the method. However, this review method has proved itself outdated and flawed based on this.)
@ I agree with your statements. Walter did a good job reviewing the station based on the current review method. But the EV charging landscape is changing quickly. The review score should really be updated for highway vs local sties.
Walter, there is a response from IONNA to the January 7 post about the $75 hold from the Mach-E Vlog guys saying the whole amount has been reduced to $50. As far as the hold time I believe that was also commented on from the Rove Network guys in California that it has to do with the coding that they use that causes the delay. I’m sure that will get straightened out eventually. Thanks for the review, I know that Eric cares about that transformer hour available on site, but I really think you ought to be dividing that by the number of active plugs to figure out power per plug capacity. It’s only five 400 kW chargers. You can see that the 2 1/2 MW transformer is oversized at their current configuration supplying up to 200kW/plug. However, the three 2.5Mw transformers for 60 stalls at Tesla limits plug power to 125kW.
They were asked about the oversized transformer on the OoS cars & coffee day. The extra capacity is for future expansion. They mentioned a pull through stall or two. Concerning the $75 reduction IONNA comment on PS. Thx. I saw that too after this video was published and pinned a comment in reference. It is a really nice site.
The credit card hold is no different than gas stations place. The 4-day delay in releasing the hold is longer than normal, but I have seen 1-2 days frequently, and 3 days on occasion. The hold is effectively a pre-authorization, and should be replaced with the actual charge when it is processed. The hold should not be an issue for most credit card users. Debit card users are another story. There are already notices telling them to not use the card readers, and authorize through the manned pay kiosk. Obviously, this is not possible with a charger where that cash option does not exist.
Don't love requiring the QR code to unlock the doors. Certainly better than not having building access at all, but since it is manned by the caretaker anyhow wonder why the door couldn't just be open like a gas station. Is that a beta-phase thing? Just adds extra friction to being able to actually use the station amenities that they advertise.
Ugh. That $75 hold is inexcusable. These DCFC providers need to do better than that. Do any gas stations mandate a "hold" when you fill your tank with a credit card? Dunno. It's been so many years since I pumped gas that I have no idea.
My wife recently had a $150 hold at a gas pump while traveling. I don’t really care about holds and wouldn’t have noticed, but the issuer declined the charge because of the amount and that she was away from home. (Which, you know, is why she needed gas.)
I guess one difference between gas and charging is that, due to charging curves, an EV making a long road trip is likely to incur more charging transactions and credit card holds than a gas car with identical range. Still, you ultimately get the money back in a few days, so unless the credit card is very nearly maxed out, it doesn't matter.
I too have not pumped gas in ages. I have lost the memory of what it is like, but I think they put a brief hold until the transaction completes and then it is lifted.
Plug and Charge is the protocol that Electrify America uses for automatic billing. Autocharge is the older standard that EVgo uses. It's great that Ionna will support both, because some older EVs cannot use the newer Plug & Charge protocol due to hardware limitations.
You can build the perfect local rechargery and score poorly. You can build the perfect interstate rechargery and score poorly. I don’t get this review method at all.
It is designed to bring to light a EV owner’s perspective into conversations of charging stations. We may in the future have separate score cards for local/municipal vs interstate stations as both have different considerations. I agree, as a local station, this should have a higher score. It is really a nice location with a lot of TLC added into the mix. Much thought and deliberation went into its creation.
@ I could not be more happy with IONNA and what they are doing. I hope to see them everywhere, soon! I REALLY like the Intersate ones. A+ on my scorecards! Ha!
By the way, I loved your video. So thank you for doing it. Great walk around the Apex facility and sharing the experience with the viewer. I just object to 80%. Not fair! (I see it as the scorecard, not you. Your videos are on-point!)
I need to rant a bit........I will only charge at ionna if there isn't a gas station nearby. I don't understand why everyone and their mom is trying to reinvent the wheel. The gold standard is gas station right off the highway. If I was given billions of $$$ I'd buy considerable shares of a national gas chain and then become the exclusive CPO of that brand. Leave all the hard tasks of C-STOR to the experts and just provide convenient charging to highway drivers. So let's not even mention 2-3am but say I show up at 2pm and the toilet is clogged - is the Zulu/bakery person going to unclog it? Stop it ionna this is ridiculous. If you want to enable urban charging then partner with employers and grocery chains and install 50-100kW chargers. This is just another glorified parking lot. /end rant
The card hold was changed to $50 recently. A user on PS commented on Jan 7th on the Apex location, they didnt know ionna is not part of the ford charge and complained about the $75 hold and ionna mentioned they adjusted it accordingly from user feedback.
Thx for the background. I pinned your comment. Very helpful
I believe that the stall on the far right is ADA compliant even if not marked. That’s why there’s a wider gap between the unmarked parking space and the hatched area. That extra room is the ADA compliance feature.
That is my understanding as well, but w/o the sign, I needed to hold back on giving it the score.
Shell Recharge does a $60 hold but it’s only for one day. It’s removed the next day and replaced by the actual charge. I’ve had GAS pumps do a $100 hold on premium gas pumps. On a credit card, I don’t see it being a problem unless a person has the card maxed out and is up against the credit limit.
If your credit card is maxed out, you probably shouldn't be spending money on vacation trips anyway.
Correct. On a CC not really an issue. Only on bank cards.
Thanks, Walter! Channeling my inner Critic: "It stinks!"
The hold is insane!. Waiting several days for a $75 or even $50 hold is crazy to me. I wish more places were like EVGO and Chargepoint. Great video!
There is life off the Interstates.
I know! Who woulda thought? ;-} Thx for watching.
@@thenetworkarchitectchannel I don’t mean to suggest DCFC sites right off interstates aren’t important. The folks selling gasoline proved that a long time ago.
You got that drone dialed in. Loving the new perspectives and it’s super stable
Actually not sure how it compensates the gimbal so well. Often times it is swaying, but the video ends up being stable.
Hi, Francis Energy holds $20, I thought that was wrong! I think why Teslas' handshake is so fast is that it allows the unit to start charging before the card actual approval! Customers will have to call in and make their options known. I still think Ionna will be a great place for the drivers of both CCS1 and NACS connectors without using an adaptor.
My recent road trip where I did this video on and also returned my son to school was all TesSC. As a non-Tesla member, I do get $20 holds each time I plug into a TesSC.
@thenetworkarchitectchannel good to know.
I'd want some clarification on the credit card holds, but I just can't see how they would place multiple holds. I would hope that they would recognize the card and not place an additional hold for subsequent charges. As much as I hate to say it, even $75 isn't out of line given around 50 cents per kWh and batteries that can easily pull >100 kWh in a single session.
I think this aspect of their service has yet to be finalized. Yet indications during the public beta did indicate the holds exist. During this trip I mostly charged at TesSC stations. They put a $20 hold each station for non-Tesla members. $75 is too much. I am guessing this flew under their radar and will be corrected as time goes on.
With the current scoring method, is it even possible to get a perfect score? You get a point for having other sites in close proximity but there's also a point for being 50 miles away from other chargers. You can't get both of these points as they oppose each other.
not really, and that is kinda the point. No site should be perfect. In my doing this, it seems a B is a very strong score. Mid C is about average. An A is pretty rare.
I agree. I’m glad Walter said Eric is relooking at this. It is fast emerging that there are 2 types of charging stations: interstate and local. There should be a review method for each. (Interstate chargers are rarely going to have the novelty point, and local chargers aren’t going to have the points for interstate proximity.). For what this site is, a local rechargery, it has absolutely EVERYTHING one would want. I give it A+ and 100%. I look forward to IONNA scoring 100% on ALL of the RELEVANT areas for interstate rechargeries too.
This is like review sedans and taking away points because they don’t have a bed to haul dirt in them like a truck. 2 different things.
IONNA is rocking. 40/50 is 80%. So that means nothing, (and Walter did it accurately if he follows the method. However, this review method has proved itself outdated and flawed based on this.)
@ I agree with your statements. Walter did a good job reviewing the station based on the current review method. But the EV charging landscape is changing quickly. The review score should really be updated for highway vs local sties.
Walter, there is a response from IONNA to the January 7 post about the $75 hold from the Mach-E Vlog guys saying the whole amount has been reduced to $50. As far as the hold time I believe that was also commented on from the Rove Network guys in California that it has to do with the coding that they use that causes the delay. I’m sure that will get straightened out eventually.
Thanks for the review, I know that Eric cares about that transformer hour available on site, but I really think you ought to be dividing that by the number of active plugs to figure out power per plug capacity. It’s only five 400 kW chargers. You can see that the 2 1/2 MW transformer is oversized at their current configuration supplying up to 200kW/plug. However, the three 2.5Mw transformers for 60 stalls at Tesla limits plug power to 125kW.
They were asked about the oversized transformer on the OoS cars & coffee day. The extra capacity is for future expansion. They mentioned a pull through stall or two. Concerning the $75 reduction IONNA comment on PS. Thx. I saw that too after this video was published and pinned a comment in reference. It is a really nice site.
They didn’t fix the cracked concrete in the front parking area?
in front of the store, yes. Not in the patron parking spaces though, you are right.
The credit card hold is no different than gas stations place. The 4-day delay in releasing the hold is longer than normal, but I have seen 1-2 days frequently, and 3 days on occasion. The hold is effectively a pre-authorization, and should be replaced with the actual charge when it is processed. The hold should not be an issue for most credit card users. Debit card users are another story. There are already notices telling them to not use the card readers, and authorize through the manned pay kiosk. Obviously, this is not possible with a charger where that cash option does not exist.
Nice review. Do you know when Garner, NC will soft open?
Thx, no. I would guess May.
Two complaints. That hold. And no pull thru the for trucks
agreed. I like the local business inside concept. Makes me feel good as a patron. Nice lady.
Don't love requiring the QR code to unlock the doors. Certainly better than not having building access at all, but since it is manned by the caretaker anyhow wonder why the door couldn't just be open like a gas station. Is that a beta-phase thing? Just adds extra friction to being able to actually use the station amenities that they advertise.
The station does not always have a caretaker limited to typical daytime hours. The 24 hour portion has the vending machines and bathrooms.
Nah, from door is open during normal hrs. I was just demonstrating the systems
Sorry for confusion
Ugh. That $75 hold is inexcusable. These DCFC providers need to do better than that. Do any gas stations mandate a "hold" when you fill your tank with a credit card? Dunno. It's been so many years since I pumped gas that I have no idea.
Yes, typically 50 - 100 dollar hold is what i have seen at gas stations
My wife recently had a $150 hold at a gas pump while traveling. I don’t really care about holds and wouldn’t have noticed, but the issuer declined the charge because of the amount and that she was away from home. (Which, you know, is why she needed gas.)
@@mph6563 Wowza! That's ridiculous!
I guess one difference between gas and charging is that, due to charging curves, an EV making a long road trip is likely to incur more charging transactions and credit card holds than a gas car with identical range. Still, you ultimately get the money back in a few days, so unless the credit card is very nearly maxed out, it doesn't matter.
I too have not pumped gas in ages. I have lost the memory of what it is like, but I think they put a brief hold until the transaction completes and then it is lifted.
I’ve contacted ionna, asking for more details on being a caretaker. Ha.
Plug and Charge is the protocol that Electrify America uses for automatic billing. Autocharge is the older standard that EVgo uses. It's great that Ionna will support both, because some older EVs cannot use the newer Plug & Charge protocol due to hardware limitations.
I get that, but there was no menu option for AC+. I didn't explain my thoughts well in the video. Good point though.
The charge should be 20 to 30 dollars max
Agreed. TesSC does $20. EVgo does $5. I think $20 bout right.
@@thenetworkarchitectchannelfor gas stations many of my local holds are $100-$150! But thats for $4+ California gas. More for diesel.
You can build the perfect local rechargery and score poorly. You can build the perfect interstate rechargery and score poorly. I don’t get this review method at all.
It is designed to bring to light a EV owner’s perspective into conversations of charging stations. We may in the future have separate score cards for local/municipal vs interstate stations as both have different considerations. I agree, as a local station, this should have a higher score. It is really a nice location with a lot of TLC added into the mix. Much thought and deliberation went into its creation.
@ I could not be more happy with IONNA and what they are doing. I hope to see them everywhere, soon! I REALLY like the Intersate ones. A+ on my scorecards! Ha!
By the way, I loved your video. So thank you for doing it. Great walk around the Apex facility and sharing the experience with the viewer. I just object to 80%. Not fair! (I see it as the scorecard, not you. Your videos are on-point!)
I need to rant a bit........I will only charge at ionna if there isn't a gas station nearby. I don't understand why everyone and their mom is trying to reinvent the wheel. The gold standard is gas station right off the highway. If I was given billions of $$$ I'd buy considerable shares of a national gas chain and then become the exclusive CPO of that brand. Leave all the hard tasks of C-STOR to the experts and just provide convenient charging to highway drivers. So let's not even mention 2-3am but say I show up at 2pm and the toilet is clogged - is the Zulu/bakery person going to unclog it? Stop it ionna this is ridiculous. If you want to enable urban charging then partner with employers and grocery chains and install 50-100kW chargers. This is just another glorified parking lot. /end rant
Actually, yes. The Zulu bakery staff do maintain the facility, both inside and out. They get steeply discounted rent for doing so.