The tennis lesson you don't WANT, but NEED to improve
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- Ian Westerman from Essential Tennis joins us for this episode of the Baseline Intelligence Podcast. Ian has over 300,000 subscribers on RUclips and is one of the original online tennis coaches.
On today's episode he explains the main reason why club players stay the same level for several years, despite practicing hard and paying for tons of lessons and clinics.
I read Ian's book. I've watched hours and hours of his content. In many ways, I already knew the things he was going to say in this interview. Still, I found this presentation valuable and informative. I think is the best that I've heard Ian distill his overarching approach to tennis instruction. Add on to that your gem about the "The Black Door" and I found this video to be super useful. Thanks and keep up the great work!
I think your interview skills, your ability to not be the center of attention but also help develop your guests' points, are the strength of your content, Jonathan. Nice work
@@TheoLaport thank you! The podcast is free learning for me so I’ve learned quickly to shut my mouth 😂
@@StokkeTennis Haha also a good lesson I've had to learn while coaching! Maybe interviewing and coaching have something in common...
Agreed
Ian has some of the best, most useful, tennis content on YT, specifically in the area of technique for the rec player.
You guys do a fantastic job teaching fundamentals and strategies in most of your videos. In this one we didn’t learn a single new thing about serve, forehand, backhand or volleys - and yet this is the episode that might help the most people become better players! Great to see two masters of the craft share extremely valuable insights.
So glad you enjoyed it
To the two of you, thank you both for making the game of tennis much better for me and many others.
Ian is great. Met him 2 decades ago at Indian Wells when he was just starting out. He too has improved & I’m impressed.
This is totally spot on and exactly my experience. In my over 4 decades I have had only one mom with kids who plays A2 come to me asking me to help her and really meant it unconditionally. At her level she was running into twenty something young moms who had played college, and she could not anseer with anything her team drill coach presented to her. I first looked at her footwork and began there. It help significantly. Then we began working on compacting her backswing and court positioning. Shes all in. I have her hitting with my tournament teens abd she loves it. The kids have adopted her and cheer her on. She does all the conditioning and has dropped 10+ pounds and put on a lot of muscle. Her speed to get to balls has improved the kids cheer when she makes it to a drop shot. Such an adult player who will pay the price necessary are exceptionally rare and they have my utmost respect!
She sounds like a winner!
Bold of you guys to assume I get in person coaching instead of just trying random things I see on RUclips
I became a premium member of another, very good RUclips channel coach, but when I thought about my tennis and what needed to happen for it to evolve, the method of learning by using progressions (detailed in Ian's book and videos) more effectively helped me develop sound technique.
Recently, I gave my brother guidance with his forehand-he claimed it was the best lesson he’d ever had-hours later, I realized that I’d used Ian’s method of teaching.
Hats off to Ian's YT channel. I have taught several beginners and have made and shared playlists of his 5-days to a killer forehand and 5-days to a🎉 killer backhand videos to get them started. Also convincing then to buy a simple phone tripod so they can shoot themselves playing and practicing. Thanks to you both.
Thanks guys, love the honest talking 😅 I’m one of those 50 yr olds who has coaching and I always tell my coach what I want to work on (eg hitting better overheads, approach shots) or she picks something out during warm up (honestly, she picks on my weaknesses and this is why I am happy to pay her 😂) , you have to accept you are a bit bad at something before you can look at improving
Sounds like you and her have a good relationship!
Am impressed that you’re discussing elements of Carol Dweck’s growth mindset theory and how to apply it in tennis and life. Have been following Ian’s content over the years and attended one of his camps in Costa Rica where I started my path on focusing on the process vs the result, I’m excited to see this interview! It’s cool to be uncomfortable!!!
Dweck is the goat
Ian = legend 👍
Really cool to see you guys doing a collab! Excellent content and so much of it applies to self improvement efforts we have in other areas in life. I've been subbed to Ian's channel for ages and Jon's since I ran across him ~ 6 months ago, looking forward to more great stuff :^)
@@JohnPrivate3845 thanks for following and watching the episode!
What a great interview! I've been seeing quite a lot of content from both you and Ian, but listening to you both discuss this extremely important topic of growth and improvement is priceless! I am one of those guys who first stepped on a tennis court as an adult (in my 20s), now (after more than 10 years...) maybe a 4.0 (we're not really using the USTA rating here in Ukraine, so hard to tell), so a lot of what you said has resonated with me greatly. Ian is so right about the video taking, it's a simple thing, but God do I hate seeing my imperfection after watching tons of videos of professional athletes with their near-perfect technique... but then there's no other way. And even if you see what it is exactly that you're doing wrong, just simply "not dropping that hand" or "moving your toss 20cm to the left" can be easier said than done :D Still, I always try to find new ideas or drills or ways of looking at something and shake things up a bit to improve, so couldn't agree more about the comfort zone and the black door. Thanks again for your work and the content!
The two masters of YT Tennis right here!
By far one of the best teachings I’ve listened too, this was an amazing learning!!!
@@scottflores6159 he shared a lot of great ideas!!
Great work both you guys!!!!
You make a good point at 8 minutes about how much work has to be invested. I played on my Varsity HS team and we practiced 4 days a week, played 2 ladders matches for seeding and one team match.
When you are a parent & working 9-5 good luck finding and justifying THAT much time for tennis…..
Great advice. I also think our culture’s emphasis on winning over improving keeps ppl from taking risks or letting themselves “look bad” & feel that pain that you have to out there to ingrain new better habits.
Maybe it's the definition of winning that needs to be adjusted. You need to improve to win in the long game!
@@StokkeTennisfor sure! I don’t mind losing but feel pressure to play safe in league matches by my doubles partners sometimes so “we can just win” rather than playing with form. I do it anyway (but not in a super stubborn way) but I can sense the frustration. I know it’s a long game to say the least, so I try to get matched up with partners that share my mindset 😂and just keep showing up and working. Thank you for your awesome content!!
The takeaway is , tennis is hard, be kind to yourself, you can be a 3.5 and have fun. Change can be immediate if you are motivated.
Immediate change is pretty difficult from my experience as a player and coach
@@StokkeTennis Perhaps "change" can be interpreted differently. For me conscious recognition of what one does suboptimally can be one of those interpretations. Physical output, movement and performance could be that result (and I think most consider this as the "change") that you want after my interpretation of "change" is made that is the root cause.
Great cross over episode with Ian! Jonathan, your content and channel have been awesome and having an impact - especially the Stokke 6 - but to see a Liverpool shirt just added some bonus points!
@@kevmack6616 top of the table!!
What a great and yes different episode. Thanks to both of you for sharing so much of your expertise and experience but also for taking us adult players who have the growth mindset so seriously.
@@JessicaDheere thanks for watching!
Thank you for the interview. Bought Ian's book a couple of years ago, and re-reading it now after watching the interview.
I haven't read it but I'm sure it has a ton of great ideas!
@@StokkeTennis Wow, impressed by your responsiveness. It is a lot of hard work growing a youtube channel, and I love your work ethic. A lot of it comes to believing and loving the process itself.
Coaching my 10 year old has been a great experience for me, as I have been learning how to say things in the way that he would listen. Would love to see more contents on coaching, and how help other to learn.
Spot on about practicing improving your weak points. Have a friend who has been stuck at 3.5 forever because he will not improve his second serve or backhand. Told him he may need to take a step back before he can move forward. I.e. Going after his second serve at full speed but with extra spin.
Great episode and content.
Thank you!
M
Thanks for tuning in!
@@StokkeTennis You bet. Cheers!
this shows the importance of a good and honest coach for development! whenever the coach starts to act amused by my shots I know he/she isn't the right fit for me because my shot quality is not nearly as good as professional player, how can you complement me like I can play in the ATP?
😮, I didn’t have time to make it through the episode until now. Really enjoy your content, thanks for sharing
Most club players will play matches several times a week but spend no time practicing strokes on a ball machine, wall, baskets of serves or drilling with a friend. Consequently they will remain at the same NTRP for decades as their age only increases. Additionally, most tennis instructors teach "strokes" but do not necessarily teach "how to play" with the strokes you currently possess. Skills like consistency, depth, and point construction will win matches at the 3.0-4.0 level which is the level of most recreational players. To level up into the high 4.0+ will require better technique but with the goal of accomplishing the skills sets necessary to win matches such as spin/shape, changing direction, angles, transition game, returning a serve, tactics/controlling a point, etc.
Tennis is hard. You have to have natural spatial movement and awareness, agility, coordination, strength, speed, expectation and behavioral management, etc.
its nuts! most people don’t want to actually improve or take expert advice. i used to be a crossfit coach and an attorney, customers and clients often won’t listen to instruction or sound counsel.
Excellent episode 👍 and Jonathan, I love your voice 😀
You might be the first person to ever say that 🤣
LFC all the way! Thank you.
You have to be willing to lose to ultimately win.
Well said
Ian playing stokke inception in the background. My heads gonna implode.
Haha 😂
Being able to choose 1.5 or even 1.75 times playback speed is a lifesaver
@@crisaverette4519 I watch EVERYTHING at 2.0!
Actually, I AM improving! Thanks to the Stokke 6! Great recommendations. I’ve been playing better than ever recently. 👍
Absolutely makes my day to hear this!
Love the stuff on habits. In tennis, the difference between knowing what to do and actually doing it is habit. It’s not that you’re a klutz, or stupid. It’s just not a habit yet.
As a former HS basketball player, I used to practice skills for 5-6 hrs per day in the summer to prepare for a season. There were no other players out there working. Now at 66, I’ve retained a lot of athleticism, but I just don’t put in the real practice hrs to perfect what I’ve learned. So, this is the black door I have to walk through-commitment to practice.
Love it!
I think adding a new habit instead of breaking an old habit helps players do the skill more often. Like if you want to break a habit start a new one like if you smoke start running. Students will go back to the old habits and will try the new habit once. If it wins they will try it again. Doing one time more than the last time is improvement.
Great point
29:04. Ian going deep.
I’ve been having the same thoughts with regards to all the sports I played in my youth. How did I play basketball five days a week for ten years and not get better?
43:00 This is the difference between effect and cause. Sure, I'm landing in the wrong place on my serve - that's an Effect and doesn't help/change anything to focus on it. Changing my toss - root cause - has a Big Effect. That is why I pay $ for a coach.
You do not need to watch the whole video.Just Watch 1.5 min. 33:00 - 34:25. The decision one needs to make.
This is why I disagree with 99% of coaches who teach by changing small things. It is much better to relate a stroke to something already understood. Like - a serve is a throwing of the racket. A throw is very easy to teach (if needed) - and there is very little else needed to serve well besides practice. A forehand is a sidearm throw. A 1h backhand is frisbee throw off a bent front leg. A slice is an air bounce frisbee throw. Do all this without letting racket slip in hand. If you can’t throw, you’ll never be good at tennis.
Smart to get YT creator tips from Ian, JS, but you are 10,000x a better, smarter coach and player. Keep up your great work.
People will prefer the lie over the truth if it makes them feel better.
@@whodefan not ideal for improvement
Stokke, you’ve put me in a bind. Big fan of your content, less fond of your choice of jersey. But life is about compromise sometimes, I guess. COYG! 😛
@@trippwestbrook9827 😂. At least we both follow that amazing league.
I play for three years and have all the shots in the book iguess. But still coiling on the serve and on the backhand feels so uncomfortable. Really need to point out on my next training that are 2 things i want to work on
thanks for your vid! Loads of great insights
3 years and all the shots is very impressive
@@StokkeTennis iguess, but lately im starting to see tennis is so much more then just having the shots! Its a constant learning
Liverpool! Go you reds!
Top of the table!!!
Bottom line, 99.9% of rec/club 3.0 to 4.0 players NEVER PRACTICE. They only play matches 1 to 3 times a week, if that, against other 3.0/4.0 players. Matches alone are poor to completely ineffective in really improving tennis performance. Period. Also, almost zero tactics are even considered, much less applied. Not even the Stokke 6 which are the #1 rules to follow for rec players to win more matches.
@@ReidVV tough to improve past a certain point without practice
@@StokkeTenniseven without practice, the Stokke 6 should used at a minimum. Maybe make t-shirts? (There's an idea!) Adding thought and purpose to play would at least create a minimum level rise.
@@ReidVV Maybe limited edition merch for players who attend my camps!
Some people just don't track the ball well ,
@@info781 That can be trained
As a teacher myself, the issues I have with coaches are 1. Not explaining "Why" a certain theory, technique, strategy works.The other half of teaching. As we say in NYC "This will explain a lot". 2. Not understanding that a fundamental component of teaching is understanding how your student assimilates information. Some people are visual learners, some auditory, some learn by physically performing. I've learned numerous technique and strategy simply by a good coach or pro tv commentator uttering a simple phrase or explanation that stuck. Your attitude that "without video it won't work" I find one dimentional. I found your rigid perspective counter productive in spite of you being such a nice guy...why I stopped following you, Ian.
Thanks for the detailed thoughts...love your passion for explaining the why and how your students learn. Question in return. Is there a sport where the most successful players DON'T use video for improvement? I'm passionate about video as well, and also agree that there could be many ways to get things done. I haven't seen many pro athletes in any sport who don't use video as a part of their process, however.
As a coach why is a very different question one on one. For kids that are motivated in class why is super helpful for remembering. But if you tell a 3.0 why they need to change their forehand it goes in the one ear and out the other. They ultimately need to establish the need themselves and ask the question to make it stick. Often times that takes looking at their own forehand from video to establish the need. Rather than teaching a class a better parallel is how do you motivate a kid that doesnt want to study. Rather than telling him why he should study its more effective ask questions and understand why he doesnt study then have him make the parallels himself
What was the secret!
Video, doing something different, getting out of your comfort zone
Then why is Ivan not improving, too?
Who is Ivan?
@@StokkeTennis Ian
@@yuetchuen I haven't seen him play, but seems like he's more dedicated to coaching right now than his own self improvement.
if this is all so true, then why is this guy's game so terrible??!
@@megowopwop8545 bill belichick wasn’t an NFL MVP
Ian is 4.5 computer rated. What’s your rating?
@@bournejason66 playing and coaching are 2 completely different skills
@@StokkeTennis yes. My comment is to the op. Ian is 4.5 which is higher than most of the people and certainly not terrible.
@@bournejason66 Ah yes! Agreed. Funny thing is, I've never seen him hit a ball. I don't need to. I've seen his coaching, and he's a good coach.
People are not willing to do what is necessary and what needs to be done to initiate change because it’s hard to do..this is the definition of Lazy!
including the guy being interviewed, his technique is trash
pick one of the worst tennis creators to interview
@@JanitorIsBack did you disagree with his thoughts in the episode?
Damn. Ian has some of the best content on yt
@ he’s helped a looooot of players
He’s just not a good player himself..but at least he fixed his foot faults.
@@jeanpauljeanpaul2530what’s playin have to do with coaching? Two different skill sets. You think macci or bolleteri could out play most of their students?