Maybe a cardboard wad like milk jug would help get the full powder burn with lubed bullets. Numbers suggesting you've got a little powder contamination.
1. I had a chrony back in the day. They are very sensitive to lighting conditions. When conditions change a tiny bit the chrony either works better or not at all. The only way to make them consistent all the time was to shoot them. Kill it and buy a Garmin. Yeah I know expensive very expensive. 2. You need a wad stack to protect the bullet base. 1/16” veg fiber and a HDPE wad. Yeah I know not traditional at all. The veg fiber may be fine by itself or you could try two. We do this in our buffalo BP cartridge rifles. 1/4” tall wad stack behind a paper patched bullet. 1/16” veg, 1/16” HDPE, 1/8” hard felt. This prevents the base of the bullet from being melted and finning. A bullet steers with its butt. Great content as always Brother thank you and keep up the great work.
Nice Job, Ethan. I've killed 9 PA whitetails with this bullet out of a custom english sporter with a 24" straight tapered barrel. I use the exact load you did, lubed. All one-shot kills. Mine's a flinter. This bullet cuts clean holes that bleeds very well, and shoots more than well enough for typical woods ranges.This bullet won't stop in a deer. Keep the good stuff coming.
Do you want more of these? I have both the 250 and 320 grain molds and I've mostly shot the 320 out of my "Hawken". The longer 320 might fly better. If you have a place I can send them, you are welcome to some of mine, hand cast out of " pure" soft lead. I can powder coat too if you want, but these should be greased to help soften the fouling and let the engraving scrape out the barrel during loading. Powder coat is mostly for my 50 cal airgun, but I did send a few powder coated and greased with 60 grains of FFg 777 with OK for me accuracy. I think they needed a little more power though. I also have the 45cal version (forget the weight), but haven't cast or shot any of these yet. If this size would be of value, I can cast a few too. The 50 cal I have sitting here ready to go. I have an old CVA Kentucky long rifle I built when I was about 13, it's in 45 with a 1:66 barrel.
I’m surprised by that standard deviation on all loads. Also, those factory REAL bullets seem really roughly cast. I wonder what the weight deviation is between individual bullets? Maybe worth looking at.
I was going to say the same about the bullets, stuff like that goes in my reject pile to be melted down again. And since this is a Lee mold, they tend to just come out fully filled for me.
That's a pretty hot load for that short stubby real. Another thing I noticed is the rough casting. The real with proper heat, should look sharp at the loading bands. These look pretty round and full of casting flaws from improper heat when casting. One thing I learned with the real, they love a lubed 1/8" veggie wad under them. I dip mine into bees wax and let them dry. I'd certainly recast some reals, weigh them and retest for accuracy. They shot well, but that velocity exceeding 100+ fps is a pretty big spread.
I agree. A few in that first picture look like my scrappers. I find, my moulds need to be piping hot to get a nice sharp edge. Probably only 50-60% are good the first cast.
Fantastic altogether! Let me tell you about my old .45 CVA Jukar Kentucky rifle with 1:66 twist and the LEE 200 grain REAL bullet. My hunting load, and accuracy load. 3Fg Triple Seven powder volumetrically measured with a standard 75 grain spout on a flask. I hot dip lube my LEE 200 grain REAL bullets with my homemade beeswax/crisco lube. I get one hole groups out to 80 yards. My chronograph measures an average of 1938 fps for a ten shot average. It totally cleans a deer’s clock. It’s a fantastic load. I think hot dip lubing adds greatly to the accuracy. I also have that REAL 250 grain mold for my .50 cal but I haven’t experimented with it just yet.
Nathan, once again I want to extend my appreciation for the time and good information that you send this I enjoy watching your videos learning great with what you pass on and seen the fact that you're out there and enjoying this is what it's all about. If we could reach out to some of the younger crowd and get more of the kids on board I think that would just be great for them to be able to have something other than the dog gone iPhone or computer. Keep the good fight going brother keep your powder dry and hang in there
The 250 gr. is my choice to hunt with this year. I have gotten very good groups with 80 grs. of 2f Schuetzen and a wonder wad between bullet and powder. Oh, my bullets are lubed with 50-50 bees wax and lard. My aging eyes and irons limit me to 75 yards which is ok because in reality my shots are usually less than 50 yards where I hunt.
Thank you for this. I have the mold but I haven't been able to see how effective they are as far as hunting. My guns love them. I hope you do more test like this
Fantastic video Ethan. Always enjoy watching your stuff! I've killed more whitetail with the Lee REAL 54 cal only second to TC Maxi Hunters... which they quit making in 54 which put me to the Lee's to keep using conicals in that gun. Excellent bullet. Keep these tests up! The ballistics gel is really neat and have been waiting for you to start testing with that!
Good video, growing up in Ohio in the 70's I found a muzzle loader was much more accurate than a slug for deer hunting. I used a CVA Hawkins cap lock from that time with a 1-66 bbl and settled on the 250gn real bullet with 90gn of 2F. In that rifle it took many deer untill the rifling was worn out and moved on to a PA long rifle flint after moving to PA. Great videos . Keep them coming
I used to have the same chronograph issues… moving my chrono out to 25 yards “almost” stops the error readings… whether it’s the patch, smoke or both it messes with the photocell catching the shadow of the projectile passing over. Two readings in the case of the patch chasing the projectile or the smoke also causing a secondary shadow… the jury is out on either issue. Close distance to the chrono for smokeless powder projectiles or arrows from a bow will not do this at 8-10 feet from the muzzle. Obviously shade from trees or whatever over the sky screen can also give you grief. I shoot the 54 caliber 300 grain (my mold drops 308 grain) REAL bullets, lubed with my lamp tallow bees wax mix over 100 grains of 2F Swiss… from my 42” 1-66 swamped Colerai barreled Early Virginian flintlock and they are minute of milk jug out to 150 yards. I have taken elk, deer and hogs with this bullet. I love the round ball, but once I used these… I only hunt with the REAL bullet in Wyoming or down here in Texas. Awesome video sir! Thank you!
I purchased a .50 320 grain REAL mold. I find them less prone to tumbling with my Hawken but they have a LOT more bark. For real excitement, I have a few .50 420 Grain used in my 26 inch twist. Even with a "sissy" pad I'm only good for about 3 or 4 shots. Good vid. Making me anxious to get to the range when this snow is gone.
Use a thin shot card + a lubed wad under the bullet and you might find easier cleaning and better accuracy with REALs. I use 50% coconut oil (which is actually a paste) & 50% beeswax for my wad lube. Note that the quick shot of those bullets, they didn't look consistently filled out. That will effect accuracy.
I enjoy your channel, I used to shoot Muzzleloader back in Indiana I was born there! You talk a lot about Flintlocks LLC, well I built my first gun down there with Jerry Eder at his place in Nineveh back in the 70s! I built a 58 cal. Southern mountant rifle with the help of Jerry, Merrill Deer, and all the parts and tools! Merrill Deer was the President of NMLRA at one time he had an original Southern mountant rifle to copy from and helped me along with Jerry! I really miss those days, going down to Jerry's to work on guns and the shoots he used to have at his place! I will have to send you a picture of it sometime.
glad to see those bullets expand like that i have about 500 of them i casted a few months ago but have yet to test them out in my cva ive always used the 265gr power belts but was looking for something cheaper to shoot so i got the lee mold and a plumber friend gave me a bunch of pure lead to use so i did give him a 100 bullets for his muzzle loader if i can get them to shoot 100 yard groups that look like those 50 yard groups its going to be my new hunting load
I've gotten great accuracy with the Lee REAL 250gr bullets as well. Nice to see the gel test at 100 yards and see that it does have some deformation, and energy transfer into the target.
@@ILoveMuzzleloading Hey brudda, you do some real fine work. I love it. However, where is the Floof? Has he taken off? Keep up the good work however, it allows me to see what I love the best. I broke my neck, and I can only watch. Keep it alive. Doc
New to muzzleloaders, gotta say the ballistic gel results are devastating compared to typical center fire brush rifles and even some high performance cartridges. Thanks for the test.
I am having a .58 hawken rifle muzzleloader and I have 440gr R.E.A.L bullets. I will reproduce what you did here and keep you posted. Very interesting shooting. Thank you.
I LOVE my Lee projectiles! They are almost all I shoot these days unless I'm teaching others how to shoot the Flintlock. Then it's PRB all the way. I am looking forward to the follow-up with the wadding under the projectile. I already know lube really does make a difference, I never thought about trying a wad beneath it though. It HAS crossed my mind to try a thin patch for the longer shots, maybe the wadding will negate that.
I have never used the "REAL" bullets. I have wanted to but I get very good accuracy with a .530 ball in my .54 Ithaca hawkin and see no reason in it other than to play around which I really love to do ! I think with a REAL bullet I should get reasonable accuracy being it has a 1 in 66" twist rate. My interest is in gaining a better trajectory at 100 yards or more. I have a tremendous amount of drop at 200 yards with the ball. I wish to have less but it is what it is. Thanks for the video. It has me thinking.
I would have used a spotter to see where each shot hit. Sans that, walk and make w/pencil where each shot hit. That would help a lot more to get a better understanding of the lube/powder/distance/shooter error ratio. Fun to watch. Thank you for sharing!
@@ILoveMuzzleloadingI have one camera that I can not recommend, it mounts to a spotting scope. It would be great except you need a really good (bright) scope to mount it on. Then the software will keep track of your hits. I should have bought a two piece system where the camera goes up near the target, and the receiver near the shooter.
I have a Lee real bullet mold, 4 different 50 cal muzzleloaders, they all agree on lee real bullets they don't like them. But they all love .490 round ball with 80 grains of 3 f , hole touching each other at 50 yards iron sights , and the no excuses 420 grain .503 and .504 bullets . I tried the Lee so many times more powder less powder lubed, I like the idea of casting my own, and enjoy it, I like accuracy more and not burning up powder that is hard to get
Ethan have you used wadding before loading your bullet to see if helps with accuracy. I like your bullets clean and uniform, greased bullets help’s to soften the fowling.
Great review Ethan. I havent found many reviews on the Lee REAL on you tube. Many say theyll do follow up videos, but I havent found them. Ive found better accuracy using 90gr to 100gr of 2F gave me ok results. From my reading, it appears thst a 1/8" felt over powder wad reaĺy makes a big difference. I ordered some felt, but unfortunately havent had the chance to go out and experiment yet. It was a bonus to see the REAL's penetration test. Looking forward to future videos and thank you for the great videos.
Great video! Of course, there are a zillion different factors, but you are doing a good job in testing this, and are providing very good information. My conclusion from your video is that I will continue to lube my LEE bullet... Thanks for sharing. 🙂
I find it interesting that the un-lubed bullets had higher velocity but worse accuracy than lubed. I would be interested in seeing this same test using 2F. 2F builds pressure slower than 3F and may change the results
That was a great video. Looking forward to seeing how the 2F performs. I have cast quite a few of those bullets I like them out of my Thompson. Who is shooting in the background sounds like a great community. Lol. I’m down in Crawford county what county you in here in Indiana. I got a 300 yd range here off the porch. Do you have 150?
My experience using lube (in general) is that the powder is contaminated by the lube. I would "insulate" the powder from the bullet lube with a patch. Lube doesn't seem to contaminate the powder too badly while you're at the range.... BUT walking around in the woods ALL DAY seems to really contaminate the powder charge, and that will change the POI and velocity.... it reduces the velocity, and you can't predict where your shot will hit. That maybe no big deal on paper targets, but it IS a big deal on game animals. I agree we should ALL perform these experiments with our rifles and ammo. I was so taken back by MY results that I quit hunting with old style muzzleloaders.... unpredictable and I don't take chances on just wounding game! For the last 12 years or so, I've found an inline muzzleloader, using Triple 7even powder (loose), and Harvester sabots, with Hornady 45 caliber JHP bullets... are pretty predictable. I clean between shots. The powder doesn't seem to get contaminated, and will last in the barrel easily two to three weeks, with a predictable POI at 100 yards. So that's what I hunt with now. Not "traditional", but deadly without loosing game, (by just wounding them.... as before).
Depending on what you are wanting to do, you might try casting some pistol bullets, 44 cal, 45 cal etc.. and use a sabot. Then you don't have to worry about is being too hard to load. Also might try casting round balls, and since undersized for patches, it would probably work too.
@@Hill_Billy_Without_A_Hill I've cast some bismuth/tin round balls and shot a few, but not enough to work up any kind of load. Best I can find a one pound ingot costs about $23 and I can only get about 17-20 balls out of it (in .530). I have a batch waiting for testing right now.
What was the rifling twist of the rifle used!?...what twist rate does LEE recommend for 50 cal. Rifled barrels!? I guarantee you you need to lube those bullets, and the lube should be a lube and cleaner type in order to get more shots off before accuracy starts to drop off, and you have to clean the bore to restore accuracy! I mix my own bullet lube, which allows me to fire about 6 to 8 shots before accuracy starts to fall off. I converted a powder horn to hold my homemade black powder solvent that has a clear plastic hose rapped around the horn that one end is attached to the horns spout and a small wooden plug on the other end. If I need to clean the bore in the field quickly, all I do is put the horn on the ground, rape a tight fitting patch on my loading ramrod , push it down the barrel, slip onto the nipple the other end of powder horn hose, then slowly pull the ram rod up slowly so the suction pulls the cleaning solution up into the barrel, then push the ram rod back down the barrel slowly which pushes the cleaner back into the horn. I do this twice. After the 2nd pushback, I pull the hose off the nipple and plug it, and put pick up the horn and put the strap back over my shoulder, and then pull the ram rod and cleaning patch out the barrel and run down a dry patch or two to dry the inside of barrel. On the last drying patch down the barrel, I leave patch and ram rod down bottom out against the breach plug and snap a percussion cap on the nipple to dry the nipple, and then pull out the ram rod and cleaning patch. Then, reload the old smoke pole and get back to business! No muss,no fuss! Oh! Also, I pick up my cleaning patches too! I do the samething at the end of my hunting or target shoot day except I will lube the cleand barrel and wipe down the outside of the rifle and put it in its case and go home. Don't have to clean the rifle at home, just put it away! Oh and the solution in the horn is good for many fast, in the field or at the range cleaning. My buddy does the same thing but uses a one litter plastic bottle.
I recently ordered a lee .600 round ball mold off Amazon... what I got was the same mold for these bullets... started to send it back, but why deal with the hassle since I have 2 rifles and a pistol in .50... and as always great video...
@@ILoveMuzzleloading Yeah, but I need .6oo to feed the .62 rifle I bought at Martin's this year, that I have not shot yet... and the fowler, trade gun and pistols I have in that caliber...
Hi very nice channel to watch with tons of info. I have a Andersa wich is a Traditions in 54cal with 1-48 inch twist. What bullets wil you say is the best for hunting. Im From South Africa and things are very scarse here.will i be better off with the minnie ball conical or what will you suggest. Thanks for the great channel
I bought some of the real bullets for a borrowed .50 cal. Lyman gpr. Couldn't hit a 2'x2' square of cardboard. I think it was just a missmatch of bullet to rifle. Even lubed, the bullets seated with almost no resistance.
I tested a bunch of powder a couple years ago thru the chronograph. Used Goex, old enysford, scheutzen, swiss and graf and sons. All 3F 70 grains shooting at 50 yards. .54 flintlock with a 42" Getz barrel. .535 rb .015 patch. Temp was 82°. I wiped between shots and left the rifle cool 15 minutes between powders. I found the same thing..my FPS increased as a shot my 5 shot burst for each powder. Im thinking it was the barrel heating up. It was an interesting test
Would suggest NOT shaking the powder container as you load the powder measure. Makes for inconsistent charges. Best to do as consistent a "gravity drop" into the measure as possible, NO shaking of the powder measure. I'd suggest holding the measure vertical, and starting with the powder container horizontal, begin a gradual tilting of the powder container to fill the measure until full, then "carding off" the heaped powder to level square with the powder measure top. And lube is always needed for consistent results with real black powder. The lube liquefies as the bullet accelerates down the bore, scouring out the fouling every shot. I like to use 2 parts Beeswax to 1 part coconut oil, and hot dip lube the bullets into the melted lube. Keep the bullets in the lube for a few seconds to heat to have a thinner coat, or for a thicker lube coat of lube on the bullet, quick-dip the bullet into the lube! Best wishes and safe shooting!
@@ILoveMuzzleloading I really enjoy your channel, have been watching for quite a while now, and have just subscribed. You do very valuable work here. Please keep it up. I was really impressed with the massive wound channel on that Lee REAL bullet you tested. My only use of the Lee REAL was using a .45 Cal version in my Ruger Old Army .44 revolver, which was incredibly effective on ground hogs! I'll definitely have to try these in a .50 rifle! I'm 67, and have been shooting / reloading since I was 15. Although I shoot and reload for everything from AR 5.56X45 to Glocks, to 30-30 / 30-06, I have a special love for muzzle loaders, both rifles and cap and ball revolvers; these guns just get in your blood! It's a real joy to see a young man like yourself who has that same passion. We muzzle loaders learn from each other and pass the info along! Beat wishes!
Ok, a side bar if you please. In a previous video you showed how good the Hornady 240-grain .50-caliber "PA" bullets was. I tried it with my near mint bore 1-48 twist Thompson Center Hawkin 27" long 50-caliber at 25 yards from a bench. Of the 10 shots fired, everyone keyholed all be it quite accurately, still all keyholed.. So, what is the twist rate for the Traditions Hawken you fired???
In that penetration test I was just focusing on the penetration, not accuracy. I have an accuracy test with the PA conical out of this same rifle and I had similar results as you. The pamphlet in the PA conical box says 1:66, the barrel used in this video is a 1:48. I hope this helps, I'm terribly sorry for the confusion. What powder charge were you using?
@@ILoveMuzzleloading A starting 50-grain load of Swiss No. 3 (2F). Like you I always start with a like grain load in a rifle relative to is caliber. I even touched off two 80-grain loads, but still no joy.
The lube is very important to reduce friction and soften the powder fowling to prevent pressure curve's. Like you were see going up on the chronograph. Like throwing a ball harder or slower the point of impact will always change . Glad to see your feeling better Ethan great video.
A lubed .54 cal Ox Yoke wad over powder will also help. It's better to go up a caliber with the wads. Your velocity consistency would improve with a change to your powder dispensing. Shaking the can as you did, is inconsistent. When I volume measured, I weigh all my charges now, I would give the can 3 shakes only. Every shot. Excessive shaking also causes the granules to break. This causes what used to be called " fines". Black powder is a surface burn powder and fines burn faster than whole granules. It introduces variables. With my weighed charges, 70 grains of 3f Swiss, I know something's wrong if my actual shot to shot variations equal or exceed 10 fps. I also swab between every shot with a rubbing alcohol patch. Down and back, repeat, and a dry patch. Good fortune to ya!
Nice demonstration , try to rest and get your heart rate down after the loading and capping . Just sit there and think happy thoughts for a minute of two and that group will tighten right up . I'd like to see you keep on with them bullets right there at fifty yards 👍👍🇺🇸
You should weigh out your charges and put the powder in small plastic containers, way more accurate than volume charges, also you need a felt over powder wad.
Looking to get a mold for these, but it says. 517 diameter? Wouldn't that make it extremely hard to load considering most bores are around .501 to .504?
OK now I am wondering how the .45 version will shoot (and load) in my 1-20 Knight Mountaineer. I have been having to size bullets to .449" to get them to load & so far have not been happy with the accuracy, I am pretty sure the bullets I was trying are hard enough they are not expanding to fill the grooves fully. Due to state regs I can't hunt with sabots with a .45.
I’m a round ball shooter, and never fired a REAL. Howsomever let’s be real ( no pun intended) 250 grains at 9-1200 fps (your velocity at range) will drop all but the biggest North America game , in fact except for Grizz and buffs I’m thinking this would do in moose and elk provided the shooter did his part
So I'm going to take a moment to only address the chronograph issue. I'm not there so I can't be certain but recently I to had an issue with what I thought was odd # results. It turned out I had inadvertently pushed the fps to mps. Once I did the math conversion the velocities were reasonable. Mountain man
I have cva optima and I'm interested in casting some of these lee real bullets and does anyone have some suggestions about this, do I need to use a kind of patch? Best powder to use? I have some roofing lead that I was using for casting fishing weights. Any info would be greatly appreciated
ETHAN REALLY NICE VIDEO YOU HAVE TAKEN YOUR TIME AND MONEY TO PRESENT A GOOD SHOOTING AND EXPERIENCE TO FUTURE BLACK POWDER FANS , ID HIGHLY RECOMMEND A GOOD BP RIFLE TOWARDS SHIT IT THE FAN.
I'd love to see a comparison between this and round balls
Maybe a cardboard wad like milk jug would help get the full powder burn with lubed bullets. Numbers suggesting you've got a little powder contamination.
Thank you!!
1. I had a chrony back in the day. They are very sensitive to lighting conditions. When conditions change a tiny bit the chrony either works better or not at all.
The only way to make them consistent all the time was to shoot them. Kill it and buy a Garmin. Yeah I know expensive very expensive.
2. You need a wad stack to protect the bullet base. 1/16” veg fiber and a HDPE wad.
Yeah I know not traditional at all. The veg fiber may be fine by itself or you could try two.
We do this in our buffalo BP cartridge rifles. 1/4” tall wad stack behind a paper patched bullet.
1/16” veg, 1/16” HDPE, 1/8” hard felt.
This prevents the base of the bullet from being melted and finning. A bullet steers with its butt.
Great content as always Brother thank you and keep up the great work.
Nice Job, Ethan. I've killed 9 PA whitetails with this bullet out of a custom english sporter with a 24" straight tapered barrel. I use the exact load you did, lubed. All one-shot kills. Mine's a flinter. This bullet cuts clean holes that bleeds very well, and shoots more than well enough for typical woods ranges.This bullet won't stop in a deer. Keep the good stuff coming.
Dang good video, Ethan. Look forward to seeing the accuracy changes with different powder charges. Chrony info is good to have as well. Thanks
Thank you, I was worried it would be a bit all over the place.
Do you want more of these? I have both the 250 and 320 grain molds and I've mostly shot the 320 out of my "Hawken". The longer 320 might fly better. If you have a place I can send them, you are welcome to some of mine, hand cast out of " pure" soft lead. I can powder coat too if you want, but these should be greased to help soften the fouling and let the engraving scrape out the barrel during loading. Powder coat is mostly for my 50 cal airgun, but I did send a few powder coated and greased with 60 grains of FFg 777 with OK for me accuracy. I think they needed a little more power though.
I also have the 45cal version (forget the weight), but haven't cast or shot any of these yet. If this size would be of value, I can cast a few too. The 50 cal I have sitting here ready to go. I have an old CVA Kentucky long rifle I built when I was about 13, it's in 45 with a 1:66 barrel.
Great info and content. Please do the 100 grain test!!!!!!!!!
Will do!
I’m surprised by that standard deviation on all loads. Also, those factory REAL bullets seem really roughly cast. I wonder what the weight deviation is between individual bullets? Maybe worth looking at.
I was going to say the same about the bullets, stuff like that goes in my reject pile to be melted down again. And since this is a Lee mold, they tend to just come out fully filled for me.
That's a pretty hot load for that short stubby real. Another thing I noticed is the rough casting. The real with proper heat, should look sharp at the loading bands. These look pretty round and full of casting flaws from improper heat when casting. One thing I learned with the real, they love a lubed 1/8" veggie wad under them. I dip mine into bees wax and let them dry. I'd certainly recast some reals, weigh them and retest for accuracy. They shot well, but that velocity exceeding 100+ fps is a pretty big spread.
I agree. A few in that first picture look like my scrappers. I find, my moulds need to be piping hot to get a nice sharp edge. Probably only 50-60% are good the first cast.
Fantastic altogether!
Let me tell you about my old .45 CVA Jukar Kentucky rifle with 1:66 twist and the LEE 200 grain REAL bullet.
My hunting load, and accuracy load.
3Fg Triple Seven powder volumetrically measured with a standard 75 grain spout on a flask. I hot dip lube my LEE 200 grain REAL bullets with my homemade beeswax/crisco lube.
I get one hole groups out to 80 yards. My chronograph measures an average of 1938 fps for a ten shot average. It totally cleans a deer’s clock. It’s a fantastic load. I think hot dip lubing adds greatly to the accuracy.
I also have that REAL 250 grain mold for my .50 cal but I haven’t experimented with it just yet.
Nathan, once again I want to extend my appreciation for the time and good information that you send this I enjoy watching your videos learning great with what you pass on and seen the fact that you're out there and enjoying this is what it's all about. If we could reach out to some of the younger crowd and get more of the kids on board I think that would just be great for them to be able to have something other than the dog gone iPhone or computer. Keep the good fight going brother keep your powder dry and hang in there
The 250 gr. is my choice to hunt with this year. I have gotten very good groups with 80 grs. of 2f Schuetzen and a wonder wad between bullet and powder. Oh, my bullets are lubed with 50-50 bees wax and lard. My aging eyes and irons limit me to 75 yards which is ok because in reality my shots are usually less than 50 yards where I hunt.
Thank you for this. I have the mold but I haven't been able to see how effective they are as far as hunting. My guns love them. I hope you do more test like this
Put a lubed wonder wad in between the powder and the lubed bullet I guarantee you'll see tighter groups !
Fantastic video Ethan. Always enjoy watching your stuff! I've killed more whitetail with the Lee REAL 54 cal only second to TC Maxi Hunters... which they quit making in 54 which put me to the Lee's to keep using conicals in that gun. Excellent bullet. Keep these tests up! The ballistics gel is really neat and have been waiting for you to start testing with that!
Good video, growing up in Ohio in the 70's I found a muzzle loader was much more accurate than a slug for deer hunting. I used a CVA Hawkins cap lock from that time with a 1-66 bbl and settled on the 250gn real bullet with 90gn of 2F. In that rifle it took many deer untill the rifling was worn out and moved on to a PA long rifle flint after moving to PA. Great videos . Keep them coming
I used to have the same chronograph issues… moving my chrono out to 25 yards “almost” stops the error readings… whether it’s the patch, smoke or both it messes with the photocell catching the shadow of the projectile passing over. Two readings in the case of the patch chasing the projectile or the smoke also causing a secondary shadow… the jury is out on either issue. Close distance to the chrono for smokeless powder projectiles or arrows from a bow will not do this at 8-10 feet from the muzzle. Obviously shade from trees or whatever over the sky screen can also give you grief.
I shoot the 54 caliber 300 grain (my mold drops 308 grain) REAL bullets, lubed with my lamp tallow bees wax mix over 100 grains of 2F Swiss… from my 42” 1-66 swamped Colerai barreled Early Virginian flintlock and they are minute of milk jug out to 150 yards. I have taken elk, deer and hogs with this bullet. I love the round ball, but once I used these… I only hunt with the REAL bullet in Wyoming or down here in Texas.
Awesome video sir! Thank you!
Nicely done. Very interested to see your results using 90 to 100gr of 2f.
You and me both!
I purchased a .50 320 grain REAL mold. I find them less prone to tumbling with my Hawken but they have a LOT more bark. For real excitement, I have a few .50 420 Grain used in my 26 inch twist. Even with a "sissy" pad I'm only good for about 3 or 4 shots. Good vid. Making me anxious to get to the range when this snow is gone.
Ethan, I think it would be interesting to see how round balls perform in the gel.
Thanks Jeff! I've got it on the way!
How about testing those REAL bullets in a faster twist inline . I'd be very interested in your results
I can do that
Use a thin shot card + a lubed wad under the bullet and you might find easier cleaning and better accuracy with REALs.
I use 50% coconut oil (which is actually a paste) & 50% beeswax for my wad lube.
Note that the quick shot of those bullets, they didn't look consistently filled out. That will effect accuracy.
I enjoy your channel, I used to shoot Muzzleloader back in Indiana I was born there! You talk a lot about Flintlocks LLC, well I built my first gun down there with Jerry Eder at his place in Nineveh back in the 70s! I built a 58 cal. Southern mountant rifle with the help of Jerry, Merrill Deer, and all the parts and tools! Merrill Deer was the President of NMLRA at one time he had an original Southern mountant rifle to copy from and helped me along with Jerry! I really miss those days, going down to Jerry's to work on guns and the shoots he used to have at his place! I will have to send you a picture of it sometime.
That warms my heart! I grew up with Jerry's grandkids, they are dear family friends!
Great video! I just picked up the same mold to cast bullets for this deer season. 👍
Awesome!
Thanks for sharing Ethan, love the acracy test. Will you do another video with patched round balls and other conical bullets?
Yep! More on the way!
Just wanted you to know that I find your videos helpful and entertaining. Keep them coming.
Really appreciate that Donald!
glad to see those bullets expand like that i have about 500 of them i casted a few months ago but have yet to test them out in my cva ive always used the 265gr power belts but was looking for something cheaper to shoot so i got the lee mold and a plumber friend gave me a bunch of pure lead to use so i did give him a 100 bullets for his muzzle loader if i can get them to shoot 100 yard groups that look like those 50 yard groups its going to be my new hunting load
Wow you really got a good deal from the plumber!
I've gotten great accuracy with the Lee REAL 250gr bullets as well. Nice to see the gel test at 100 yards and see that it does have some deformation, and energy transfer into the target.
As your bore fouls you get more resistance and more resistance causes higher muzzle velocity.
love the lee real conicals, use them in several calibers
Wonder how much tamping pressure changes might effect accuracy?
That was a great test. Even the 100yrd groups were pretty good.
Ethan, Good Video.I have seen your video's from the beginning. They get better and better. A pleasure to see. Thank you for the work on the rifles
Doc
Thank you so much Doc!
@@ILoveMuzzleloading Hey brudda, you do some real fine work. I love it. However, where is the Floof? Has he taken off?
Keep up the good work however, it allows me to see what I love the best. I broke my neck, and I can only watch. Keep it alive.
Doc
Ethan, what is the twist on the rifle tested?
@@ILoveMuzzleloading
New to muzzleloaders, gotta say the ballistic gel results are devastating compared to typical center fire brush rifles and even some high performance cartridges. Thanks for the test.
I am having a .58 hawken rifle muzzleloader and I have 440gr R.E.A.L bullets. I will reproduce what you did here and keep you posted. Very interesting shooting.
Thank you.
Ethan, how much lube are you using? The groves are full on mine.
Great Video 😊
Those are some great results, I use the 320gr Lee with my fast twist Hawken. 70gr of 2f Old E is my most accurate load
Thank you, I'll see if that works in mine.
I have a 54 caliber hawkin I use those in always lube them it makes a great difference
I LOVE my Lee projectiles! They are almost all I shoot these days unless I'm teaching others how to shoot the Flintlock. Then it's PRB all the way. I am looking forward to the follow-up with the wadding under the projectile. I already know lube really does make a difference, I never thought about trying a wad beneath it though. It HAS crossed my mind to try a thin patch for the longer shots, maybe the wadding will negate that.
What a great video! I have a mold for those and will try them again.
First time out wasn't that great. Thanks again.
I have never used the "REAL" bullets. I have wanted to but I get very good accuracy with a .530 ball in my .54 Ithaca hawkin and see no reason in it other than to play around which I really love to do ! I think with a REAL bullet I should get reasonable accuracy being it has a 1 in 66" twist rate. My interest is in gaining a better trajectory at 100 yards or more. I have a tremendous amount of drop at 200 yards with the ball. I wish to have less but it is what it is.
Thanks for the video. It has me thinking.
Any of those groups are within minute of deer
I would have used a spotter to see where each shot hit. Sans that, walk and make w/pencil where each shot hit. That would help a lot more to get a better understanding of the lube/powder/distance/shooter error ratio. Fun to watch. Thank you for sharing!
Great idea! They say there are cameras out there that can assist with that. I'm saving for a set to help understand this more. Thank you for watching!
@@ILoveMuzzleloadingI have one camera that I can not recommend, it mounts to a spotting scope. It would be great except you need a really good (bright) scope to mount it on. Then the software will keep track of your hits. I should have bought a two piece system where the camera goes up near the target, and the receiver near the shooter.
I have a Lee real bullet mold, 4 different 50 cal muzzleloaders, they all agree on lee real bullets they don't like them. But they all love .490 round ball with 80 grains of 3 f , hole touching each other at 50 yards iron sights , and the no excuses 420 grain .503 and .504 bullets . I tried the Lee so many times more powder less powder lubed, I like the idea of casting my own, and enjoy it, I like accuracy more and not burning up powder that is hard to get
nice shooting..
Now I thing you need to try this same test but now on a Inline MZ
Ethan have you used wadding before loading your bullet to see if helps with accuracy. I like your bullets clean and uniform, greased bullets help’s to soften the fowling.
Great review Ethan. I havent found many reviews on the Lee REAL on you tube. Many say theyll do follow up videos, but I havent found them. Ive found better accuracy using 90gr to 100gr of 2F gave me ok results. From my reading, it appears thst a 1/8" felt over powder wad reaĺy makes a big difference. I ordered some felt, but unfortunately havent had the chance to go out and experiment yet. It was a bonus to see the REAL's penetration test. Looking forward to future videos and thank you for the great videos.
I picked up some felt wads to try today. We're gonna give em a shot!
if i might make a suggestion put a lubed felt wad on top of the powder it made a great improvement on my groups
Great video! Of course, there are a zillion different factors, but you are doing a good job in testing this, and are providing very good information. My conclusion from your video is that I will continue to lube my LEE bullet... Thanks for sharing. 🙂
I find it interesting that the un-lubed bullets had higher velocity but worse accuracy than lubed. I would be interested in seeing this same test using 2F. 2F builds pressure slower than 3F and may change the results
A wool wad over powder will help stop the flyers. Gas cutting on the base can cause instability
That was a great video. Looking forward to seeing how the 2F performs. I have cast quite a few of those bullets I like them out of my Thompson. Who is shooting in the background sounds like a great community. Lol. I’m down in Crawford county what county you in here in Indiana. I got a 300 yd range here off the porch. Do you have 150?
Great tests and very informative Ethan and I Thank You Kindly! Many Blessings and Good Shootin! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
My experience using lube (in general) is that the powder is contaminated by the lube.
I would "insulate" the powder from the bullet lube with a patch.
Lube doesn't seem to contaminate the powder too badly while you're at the range....
BUT walking around in the woods ALL DAY seems to really contaminate the powder charge, and that will change the POI and velocity.... it reduces the velocity, and you can't predict where your shot will hit.
That maybe no big deal on paper targets, but it IS a big deal on game animals.
I agree we should ALL perform these experiments with our rifles and ammo.
I was so taken back by MY results that I quit hunting with old style muzzleloaders.... unpredictable and I don't take chances on just wounding game!
For the last 12 years or so, I've found an inline muzzleloader, using Triple 7even powder (loose), and Harvester sabots, with Hornady 45 caliber JHP bullets... are pretty predictable.
I clean between shots. The powder doesn't seem to get contaminated, and will last in the barrel easily two to three weeks, with a predictable POI at 100 yards.
So that's what I hunt with now.
Not "traditional", but deadly without loosing game, (by just wounding them.... as before).
If there is not already, a comparison of the different weights of 50 caliber Lee R.E.ALbullets?
Good Job Ethan. Probably just a little different sight picture on that 100 yd target with the lug. the 50yd target seem to follow the same pattern.
Great video and test. What camera were you filming the ballistic gel part with? The slow mo on that rig is great.
Thanks! It’s a go pro using the slow motion function
Very helpful shoot a 54 round myself, great video 👍👍
Been watching a few of your videos , would love to see the gellatin test with a chunk of fur on deer hide on it
Have you tried paper patching the bullets? No lube, just a thin card wad 'tween powder and PPB.
Thanks so much for that insight of that test I truly appreciate you sharing it 👍👌🔥
Glad it was helpful!
@@ILoveMuzzleloading it truly was 👌
Good to see. I'd like to make up a test batch of REALs in Bismuth alloy to see if they'd load & fire at all.
I made a batch of bismuth / tin for my .54 and they wouldn't load. They're too hard to grab the rifling.
Depending on what you are wanting to do, you might try casting some pistol bullets, 44 cal, 45 cal etc.. and use a sabot. Then you don't have to worry about is being too hard to load. Also might try casting round balls, and since undersized for patches, it would probably work too.
@@Hill_Billy_Without_A_Hill I've cast some bismuth/tin round balls and shot a few, but not enough to work up any kind of load. Best I can find a one pound ingot costs about $23 and I can only get about 17-20 balls out of it (in .530). I have a batch waiting for testing right now.
What was the rifling twist of the rifle used!?...what twist rate does LEE recommend for 50 cal. Rifled barrels!? I guarantee you you need to lube those bullets, and the lube should be a lube and cleaner type in order to get more shots off before accuracy starts to drop off, and you have to clean the bore to restore accuracy! I mix my own bullet lube, which allows me to fire about 6 to 8 shots before accuracy starts to fall off. I converted a powder horn to hold my homemade black powder solvent that has a clear plastic hose rapped around the horn that one end is attached to the horns spout and a small wooden plug on the other end. If I need to clean the bore in the field quickly, all I do is put the horn on the ground, rape a tight fitting patch on my loading ramrod , push it down the barrel, slip onto the nipple the other end of powder horn hose, then slowly pull the ram rod up slowly so the suction pulls the cleaning solution up into the barrel, then push the ram rod back down the barrel slowly which pushes the cleaner back into the horn. I do this twice. After the 2nd pushback, I pull the hose off the nipple and plug it, and put pick up the horn and put the strap back over my shoulder, and then pull the ram rod and cleaning patch out the barrel and run down a dry patch or two to dry the inside of barrel. On the last drying patch down the barrel, I leave patch and ram rod down bottom out against the breach plug and snap a percussion cap on the nipple to dry the nipple, and then pull out the ram rod and cleaning patch. Then, reload the old smoke pole and get back to business! No muss,no fuss! Oh! Also, I pick up my cleaning patches too! I do the samething at the end of my hunting or target shoot day except I will lube the cleand barrel and wipe down the outside of the rifle and put it in its case and go home. Don't have to clean the rifle at home, just put it away! Oh and the solution in the horn is good for many fast, in the field or at the range cleaning. My buddy does the same thing but uses a one litter plastic bottle.
Should record each shot with the crono reading, more speed may put shot out of group, just a thought.
Well done. Great video. surprised on the speed of the bullets.
Do you think they were fasther or slower than your expectations?
@@ILoveMuzzleloading Faster
Good info. Interesting results. Should be very effective on deer and even black bear.
Good evening from Syracuse NY brother and everyone else
Great test
I recently ordered a lee .600 round ball mold off Amazon... what I got was the same mold for these bullets... started to send it back, but why deal with the hassle since I have 2 rifles and a pistol in .50... and as always great video...
Sometimes those mistakes are handy! Hope you enjoy them. It's a fun projectile.
@@ILoveMuzzleloading Yeah, but I need .6oo to feed the .62 rifle I bought at Martin's this year, that I have not shot yet... and the fowler, trade gun and pistols I have in that caliber...
Hi very nice channel to watch with tons of info. I have a Andersa wich is a Traditions in 54cal with 1-48 inch twist. What bullets wil you say is the best for hunting. Im From South Africa and things are very scarse here.will i be better off with the minnie ball conical or what will you suggest. Thanks for the great channel
Any of the lead conicals should do fine. From what I've seen, they all expand in game. Best of luck!
I bought some of the real bullets for a borrowed .50 cal. Lyman gpr. Couldn't hit a 2'x2' square of cardboard. I think it was just a missmatch of bullet to rifle. Even lubed, the bullets seated with almost no resistance.
Well done, to the point … informative . now add the over the powder gas check … I’d watch the results
I have used pre lubed hornady great plains 385gr and they shoot great. Seems lube definitely makes a difference.
I've got some of them to try!
I tested a bunch of powder a couple years ago thru the chronograph. Used Goex, old enysford, scheutzen, swiss and graf and sons. All 3F 70 grains shooting at 50 yards. .54 flintlock with a 42" Getz barrel. .535 rb .015 patch. Temp was 82°. I wiped between shots and left the rifle cool 15 minutes between powders. I found the same thing..my FPS increased as a shot my 5 shot burst for each powder. Im thinking it was the barrel heating up. It was an interesting test
Would suggest NOT shaking the powder container as you load the powder measure. Makes for inconsistent charges. Best to do as consistent a "gravity drop" into the measure as possible, NO shaking of the powder measure. I'd suggest holding the measure vertical, and starting with the powder container horizontal, begin a gradual tilting of the powder container to fill the measure until full, then "carding off" the heaped powder to level square with the powder measure top. And lube is always needed for consistent results with real black powder. The lube liquefies as the bullet accelerates down the bore, scouring out the fouling every shot. I like to use 2 parts Beeswax to 1 part coconut oil, and hot dip lube the bullets into the melted lube. Keep the bullets in the lube for a few seconds to heat to have a thinner coat, or for a thicker lube coat of lube on the bullet, quick-dip the bullet into the lube! Best wishes and safe shooting!
Great tip, thanks!
@@ILoveMuzzleloading I really enjoy your channel, have been watching for quite a while now, and have just subscribed. You do very valuable work here. Please keep it up. I was really impressed with the massive wound channel on that Lee REAL bullet you tested. My only use of the Lee REAL was using a .45 Cal version in my Ruger Old Army .44 revolver, which was incredibly effective on ground hogs! I'll definitely have to try these in a .50 rifle! I'm 67, and have been shooting / reloading since I was 15. Although I shoot and reload for everything from AR 5.56X45 to Glocks, to 30-30 / 30-06, I have a special love for muzzle loaders, both rifles and cap and ball revolvers; these guns just get in your blood! It's a real joy to see a young man like yourself who has that same passion. We muzzle loaders learn from each other and pass the info along! Beat wishes!
Use a wad under the REALfor accuracy ,perhaps next time you get a thumps up along with better velocity /Ed
Ok, a side bar if you please. In a previous video you showed how good the Hornady 240-grain .50-caliber "PA" bullets was. I tried it with my near mint bore 1-48 twist Thompson Center Hawkin 27" long 50-caliber at 25 yards from a bench. Of the 10 shots fired, everyone keyholed all be it quite accurately, still all keyholed.. So, what is the twist rate for the Traditions Hawken you fired???
In that penetration test I was just focusing on the penetration, not accuracy. I have an accuracy test with the PA conical out of this same rifle and I had similar results as you. The pamphlet in the PA conical box says 1:66, the barrel used in this video is a 1:48.
I hope this helps, I'm terribly sorry for the confusion. What powder charge were you using?
@@ILoveMuzzleloading A starting 50-grain load of Swiss No. 3 (2F). Like you I always start with a like grain load in a rifle relative to is caliber. I even touched off two 80-grain loads, but still no joy.
That was great maybe you could shoot round ball into the gel next time. 🤠
The lube is very important to reduce friction and soften the powder fowling to prevent pressure curve's. Like you were see going up on the chronograph. Like throwing a ball harder or slower the point of impact will always change . Glad to see your feeling better Ethan great video.
Really like that metaphor!
A lubed .54 cal Ox Yoke wad over powder will also help. It's better to go up a caliber with the wads.
Your velocity consistency would improve with a change to your powder dispensing.
Shaking the can as you did, is inconsistent. When I volume measured, I weigh all my charges now, I would give the can 3 shakes only. Every shot.
Excessive shaking also causes the granules to break. This causes what used to be called " fines". Black powder is a surface burn powder and fines burn faster than whole granules. It introduces variables.
With my weighed charges, 70 grains of 3f Swiss, I know something's wrong if my actual shot to shot variations equal or exceed 10 fps.
I also swab between every shot with a rubbing alcohol patch. Down and back, repeat, and a dry patch.
Good fortune to ya!
Nice demonstration , try to rest and get your heart rate down after the loading and capping . Just sit there and think happy thoughts for a minute of two and that group will tighten right up . I'd like to see you keep on with them bullets right there at fifty yards 👍👍🇺🇸
You should weigh out your charges and put the powder in small plastic containers, way more accurate than volume charges, also you need a felt over powder wad.
I can’t get them to group at all but I didn’t use lube on them and it was shot out of an in-line rifle
Looking to get a mold for these, but it says. 517 diameter? Wouldn't that make it extremely hard to load considering most bores are around .501 to .504?
OK now I am wondering how the .45 version will shoot (and load) in my 1-20 Knight Mountaineer. I have been having to size bullets to .449" to get them to load & so far have not been happy with the accuracy, I am pretty sure the bullets I was trying are hard enough they are not expanding to fill the grooves fully. Due to state regs I can't hunt with sabots with a .45.
Lube also makes a dif at cleanup
May I ask - will these be accurate in a modern inline 1:28 twist?
I’m a round ball shooter, and never fired a REAL. Howsomever let’s be real ( no pun intended) 250 grains at 9-1200 fps (your velocity at range) will drop all but the biggest North America game , in fact except for Grizz and buffs I’m thinking this would do in moose and elk provided the shooter did his part
I like to see the 300 grain Lee R.E.A.L done in this manner
The lower velocity is part of the lower two shots
great video
So I'm going to take a moment to only address the chronograph issue. I'm not there so I can't be certain but recently I to had an issue with what I thought was odd # results. It turned out I had inadvertently pushed the fps to mps. Once I did the math conversion the velocities were reasonable.
Mountain man
Oh thanks for the tip!
I used 320 grains 90 of pyrotechnics RS 50cal are you shooting a 50 or 45 cal.
Some of the variations are probably from powder variations. Pre measured by weight, might be more consistent for you.
Twist n caliber?
Bro got the same glasses he left prison with.
Dude don’t spoil my reveal
I have cva optima and I'm interested in casting some of these lee real bullets and does anyone have some suggestions about this, do I need to use a kind of patch? Best powder to use? I have some roofing lead that I was using for casting fishing weights. Any info would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
Maybe I missed it. Are you bullets cast from pure lead? Good Video by the way.
Pure lead! I should have mentioned that sorry!
@@ILoveMuzzleloading I ask because sometimes Idaho Lewis uses a mix. Thank you. Keep up the good work.
@@stevec5338 I've got some other projectiles to try that are a mix, perhaps we'll see different results. Than you!
@@ILoveMuzzleloading You never know! 👍
Good stuff appreciate the homework
Thank you Cory!
ETHAN REALLY NICE VIDEO YOU HAVE TAKEN YOUR TIME AND MONEY TO PRESENT A GOOD SHOOTING AND EXPERIENCE TO FUTURE BLACK POWDER FANS , ID HIGHLY RECOMMEND A GOOD BP RIFLE TOWARDS SHIT IT THE FAN.