I get 1" groups at 100 yards from RBs in 54 caliber from an Investarms Hawken flintlock. I've seen guys hit a target at 250 yards with RBs in traditional guns, but I wouldn't shoot game at that range.
Great video content My dad started using 80grains black and those 240 xtp back in the 90’s. I still use the same recipe in different guns today. Very effective.
I have found that a bullet that holds together long enough to get into the vitals of your intended game before shearing the petals and leaving a solid shank to penetrate has the greatest "knockdown" power. I used a muzzleloader exclusively for about 15 years and have shot just about every bullet manufactured as of about 8 years ago. What I found is that MOST of the bullets perform about the same, providing you are within the velocity window in which they are intended to work. Some of the bullets are designed to perform with the higher velocity of a magnum charge, while others perform best when shot out of a more moderate charge of about 100gr load. Too high of a velocity, and they fragment, too low of a velocity, and they fail to expand enough to dump energy. What I started doing was casting my own and started to testing different lead alloys to get the performance that I want out of my gun. I found that a small hollow pointed 260gr .44 cal bullet cast of 1 part tin to 20 parts lead plus 1.5% antimony is the ticket. The antimony and tin are very important in this because the tin allows the bullet to not be as fragile and hold its petals longer during expansion. The antimony allows me to harden the bullet through heat treating. I first heat treat the cast bullet to gain harness to the point it will not expand. Then, I put the bullet in a tub of water up to the crimping groove and anneal the nose of the bullet to soften it back up. This makes what is essentially a soft nose expanding projectile that will expand down to low velocities, but the hardened shank will not expand and provide exceptional penetration for quartering shots or when blowing through heavier bone.
I have been a traditional black powder shooter since the late 70's and you cannot beat the soft all lead T/C maxi ball, Lee Maxi or patched round ball, but the bullet makers would all be out of business if shooters knew the truth. I'll stack it up against all the other bullets I have shoot over the years.
@@MrOldclunker Out of a flintlock or sidelock muzzleloader, a pure lead bullet is hard to beat. My original comment is in reference to modern inline muzzleloaders.
Being 74 years old I aquired the Thompson 50 calico Hawkins Rifle years ago and being I live in Alaska half the time I have always wanted to get a Buffalo 🦬 and you’re show helps me decide on the best current bullets available, Thank You 🙏 MR
Howdy! I tested a Hornady Bore Driver 295 grain with water jugs at 100 yards. I used 4 plastic diesel juice jugs that are 2.5 US gallon (6 liters) each. I used a CVA Wolf using 150 grains ( 3 pellets) of IMR White Hots. I did not have a chronograph. The bullet penetrated first 2 jugs, into jug 3 that punched the back and dimpled jug 4. I think the larger jugs than you used had a significant effect on penetration. I recovered the plastic ballistic tip and lead fragments in jug. This weighed 70.9 grains. Inside jug 3, I recovered the lead core, nicely mushroomed and a nicely petaled copper jacket. They weighed 199.4 for a total of 270 grains recovered from a 295 grain bullet. I did NOT get the explosive jug burst although 1 and 2 had big tears in them.
Thanks for all the work. Missed the Barnes copper! They are second to none. Devastating hydrodynamic shock and nearly always pass through the animals shot by the appropriate cal.
Well done. Excellent demonstration of each bullet. Great consistent info. Sure appreciate all the time, energy, thought & resources put into this test. When I have used a muzzleloader in the past, I found the 240 XTP to be the most reliable and best performer overall. I used PowerBelt HP a little, Hornady Full bore flex tip, and some Buffalo sabots a little. I liked the TC full bore lead hp results you got. If I were hunting moose or big brown bear that 500 grain would be my choice. But it obviously offers a good bit more recoil. 3000+ ft.lb of energy is impressive.
Thank you! It’s close to 25 hours to get a video like this out by my estimates , I appreciate your kind words. I agree, if I was hunting something BIG, the 500 would be my go to
After 30 years of muzzleloader hunting and testing on live deer I can confidentiality say that in modern in line equipment the Barnes Expander 250 are head and shoulders above the rest for putting meat in the freezer , good blood trails or dead right there .
@@ILoveMuzzleloading Lots of authority though.😁😅 I looked like that after firing a 680gr bullet, over a full case of 3f, from my 577-500 No2. Eguivalent to the 50-140 Straight. Kicks a bit and I didn’t fire many. 🤣 You can see it here. ruclips.net/video/iXVDLHkOhec/видео.html.
The paper patch has crazy penetration and that somewhat reduces its situational usability. The Maxi Hunter on impact looks to flatten out to 3/4” and indicating that it transfers it energy very quickly. And, it’s less likely to hurt or kill something you didn’t intend to shoot.
@@ILoveMuzzleloading is there a video about this paper patched bullet. I’d love to roll up some of my own using a similar technique? I’d love to see how there rolled.
Expansion with an exit wound is what I look for in a deer hunting bullet. I was surprised with the 275 grain T/C Maxi hunter, I will be giving that bullet a try. Thanks for the video
The xtp is a great bullet, especially considering that it's a very old technology bullet and usually inexpensive compared to other newer bullets. I usually buy .452 diameter xtps that are made for 454 casull or 460 S&W mag reloading and then buy MMP sabots separately. They perform great
You're a wise man. Thanks for that nugget. Happy hunting bro. And you thought no one cared what you thought, we live and die by what we learn from others, there's nothing new under the sun. Thanks for the tip.
Wife's uncle used a saboted 240gr XTP out of an older Knight, running 100 grains of Pyrodex. We found his XTP looking like an advertisement. After traveling 30" through a good sized black bear. The XTP is still a solid performer, maybe even more so in the modern smoke poles.
The TC maxi hunter has always been a favorite of mine. They’re devastating on elk in my experience. 110 grains of fffg pushing a T/C Maxi hunter in my .50 caliber Hawken is my preferred load.
Great video, especially that this was done in cold weather to better reflect the results seen during hunting season. Although I think it’s time to replace the chronograph. Also many shooters use the Hodgdon Triple 7 Blackpowder Pellets and bullets like the Hornady SST-ML Low Drag Sabots that most of us sell in our stores, then we can recommend they check out your video when they are in question for the new shooters.
I agree with Carl With a C. I have so many Powerbelts I'll be shooting them for a while. My brother's used the Hornady XTP's for years and is very happy with them.
Nicely Presented! I found it interesting given the variances in the bullets that the implosion of the first two jugs were nearly identical on each test. I should note that the exception being the 500 grain bullet your friend made for you to try. I think I started flinching before you even loaded that freight train down the bore. And watching the slo-mo recoil of that shot (ouch) I can only offer that you may want to rethink your definition of friend. LOL
Thank you Jim. I noticed that as well, the initial hit for all the projectiles looks very similar. The freight train bullets are a good boolit to keep me grounded, LOL.
Had to revisit this video. They have the Smack Down Carnivores on discount sale right now for half their normal going rate. XTPs have served me well. Last couple years though. I have been using hand casted wheel weight .452 215gr Semi Wad-cutters. No surprise that a half inch hole in the right place, still kills. 😉
I have always leaned toward big bore, heavy for caliber projectiles for hunting and never really been disappointed. The added bonus is that little, virtually no meat is destroyed even with the shoulder hits I favored for so long. Recently (last year), I started taking game with traditional shots to the boiler room with large bore (.45 - .480 cal) slugs and found they put game down just as quickly with no meat loss. Except for high shoulder shots, there is no bullet placement that consistently takes game (like the whitetail) down instantaneously, so a good blood trail IMHO is the best guarantee for finding downed game and penetration has worked best for me.
I think you should shoot about 30 of those 500grainers and forget the rest. lol. Those things really rock you. Laughed for 2 straight minutes at your reaction.
I love the carnivore smack down best bullets I've ever used not to tight in my cv a it's literally snug I'm happy with that round shoots smooth an straight my brother sighted my cva an hit at 300 yards so it's 😮 amazing i love it
The xtp is the best muzzleloader bullet made, been killing 150 to 250 lb whitetails with that thing for 30 years. The 240 grainier is deadly. I’ve never lost an animal yet with it and I’ve killed a pile of animals with it. I’m not a powerbelt fan at all, but that power belt he shot with the black tip was pretty impressive
I got some of those XTPs. I didn't sight in with them this year (used the Hornady SSTs). But after seeing your test, my next range trip will shot some!! Nice video and gave you a sub.
Great video! I was really impressed by the T/C Maxi Hunter's expansion. My dad used those for deer hunting back in the 80's and it was really cool to see they stacked up well against more modern bullets. I've used the Hornady XTP's for years and have killed a lot of deer with them. They seem to do a pretty good job. It would be really cool to see how a lead round ball held up in your next video. Keep up the good work!
It is (in my opinion) to dump as much energy in the body if the animal as possible. For me the bullets with High expansion is better. Penetrating only 3 jugs
I have hunted with Hornady xtp in 44cal and 45acp from 240gr to 300gr in my muzzleloaders. Expansion is moderate in deer sized game. Less than what you are seeing from water. Water resistance at impact tends to actually be more than tissue resistance in game animals. Either way, the xtp is very capable in hunting uses. I’ve taken many deer with them from broadside to frontal shots. They leave moderate wound cavities with good penetration and almost always an exit wound. I’m hunting with powerbelt elr this year, and have taken one deer with them. It was point blank as the deer was already lethally injured. I got an exit wound which was impressive, as I thought the bullet would fragment to nothing inside. But the exit would was moderate, nickel sized, and the internal damage showed a great deal of lead and copper fragments. It obviously expanded rapidly and whatever exited was relatively small compared to what entered. As seen in your test. I will likely go back to xtp projectiles next year, for the cost effectiveness of them and the consistent performance. They are still capable to 250yd in my Accura PR.
To help your chronograph results try making side curtains out of cardboard & ziptie them to the diffuser rods . Really helped me get readings under poor light conditions .
Many hunters I come across always talk about poor blood trails. You can have all the speed you want but unless expansion is dynamic blood trails are at risk. I use a Barnes 250 gr hollow pt for 25 yrs. Extremely accurate and great penetration. I have taken many animals but more blood would be a plus. The maxi hunter in your test impressed me. I am going to experiment with that and the thor higher grain bullet and see the results. Thanks for your dedication. Any comments or advice are appreciated.
very awesome video. i liked the performance of the XTP. nice to see, as 4 boxes of them came with my muzzleloader i was gifted this fall. also came with a box of great plains and some round balls.
I've used the Hornady XTP hollow point the last 2 seasons. The on game performance has been devastating. I had great accuracy out of my CVA Optima. I have found my bullet of choice.
thanks for the testing. I have been using the xtp's for years now, probably 50ish animals taken and been very happy with them overall. I have recently moved up to the 300 grain version and like those a bit better. I really like seeing how all of these different bullets perform under identical conditions.
These muzzleloader bullet assessments crack me up. What works great in your gun may be a complete fail and vice versa. Likewise, running the identical powder charge in each one is another problem, as you really need to spend the time to figure out what charge is optimal for each bullet and sabot combination. Powerbelts for example are terrible out of my .50 inline, but others love them in theirs. After a lot of experimenting I landed on 120 grains of 777 behind a Speer bullet and a Harvester crush rib sabot. Far better for me than the Hornady stuff and slightly better than the Barnes TTSX, but again probably not the best for other guns. No substitute for putting in the time to find out what yours likes.
i have used the 240 XTP from back to 1990 and allways liked it, recoved a few from deer with the same results. i like the way it stays together i don"t want small pieces of metal in the meat
Same here..my CVA Acura.MR...loves the 290 gr Barnes and 95 grs by volume. 209 Blackhorn powder..75 yd 3 shot groups are damn near one hole..which are where my deer hunting shot ranges are.
That was cool!! I use the T/C maxi myself. When I have tried the CVA Powerbelts, they tend to key hole on me, if they work for you, thats great, I like the idea behind them, easy to load, but-- . Thanks for putting the time you do, into these projects.
Really like these kinds of tests. Look up No Excuses bullets. Dave, the owner, sells heavy lead conicals in 41-50 caliber in various weights from 385-600 grains. He also sells sabots. Would like to see you test his 50 cal 420 grain and 460 grain bullets. Send him a message and see if he'll send you a few to test. He's a good guy. Use a felt wad from RMC oxyoke over the powder when shooting lead conicals. It protects the bullet and will seal the bore giving more velocity. Also you don't need 80 grains by weight of blackhorn with heavy lead. 56 grains by weight or 80 grains by volume is enough with blackhorn 209.
Thanks! I should have used a wad, great thought! I've heard of "No Excuse" and will have to get some ordered for the next test. Thanks for your thoughts!
@@ILoveMuzzleloading No problem. Just subscribed. Really like the content you are putting out so far. I just got into muzzleloading last year and I love it! Bought a CVA Wolf with the scope mount and I'm shooting the No Excuses 460 grain sized at .503 for my barrel. Have not got it sighted in yet as I found out at the beginning of winter that my scope mount was loose from the factory. Was having trouble sighting it in all summer. Well now I've got that loctited down and am wait for spring to get this gun shooting good.
The 385 gr great plains bullet truly performs best loaded to lower velocitys. With 85 to 90 grain black powder equivalent this bullet is truly deadly to around 150 yards which is in most cases the limits to the guns it was designed for. Myself and several others I know have used this bullet exclusively on game and non game from coyote to elk and bear and it really lays them down and does about a 75 percent job of weight retainment.
I have been using the 250 grain XTP with a Harvester ribbed sabot. My rifle is a TC Triumph Bone Collector .50 cal. For powder, I use Blackhorn 209 and 209 primers. It shoots very small groups at my sight in of 75 yards, and has proven deadly on game, with excellent terminal performance. I see no reason to change.
I’m really impressed by the xtp bullet. I presume that’s their 44mag pistol bullet so it’s designed to perform well around 1400 fps. And yet it stayed together at over 2000fps. Should work well in a 444 as well. Good bullet
I’m impressed by the velocity of the powerbelt. One thing I’d like to say and I’m not an expert but I’d never shoot a 500gr bullet from my muzzleloader. The muzzleloader industry sets loose standards on bullet and powder configurations. That kick you received was from pressure expanding in the barrel. Hope everyone that reads this takes note of that. I’m not trying to be a Karen. I like your videos and compassions. I do reloading and load development. I deer hunting with nothing but a muzzleloader and have been for 31 years. Load development I feel is more important. It leads to accuracy and better shot placement in turn better hunting. My CVA likes 74gr 209 by weight with a Hornady bore driver. Thanks for the videos!
I love hunting with muzzleloaders so I have 5 scoped 50 caliber muzzleloaders that I switch up between them depending on where I'm going to hunt and the weather starting with a Thompson Center Black Diamond Express converted to use 209, a CVA Magnum Hunter in 209, a Knight Vision in 209, a Thompson Center Scout using #11 percussion cap and finally a Legacy SS using a #11 percussion cap that I bought back in the 90's from Sportsmans Guide and I believe if I'm not mistaking that the Legacy is a CVA knock-off due to the breech plug being the save a that of a CVA. I use Tradition and Hornaday HTP's sabots in 240 grain in all the rifles and 100 grains of FFF black powder with the exception of the Thompson Center Scout that I use 80 grains of powder. All rifles have yet to fail me on a hunt and these 2 brands of bullets have been the only ones that I've used in my modern muzzleloaders including the 2 percussions and I've found that altitude and temperature played a big role in how much powder that I had to use in order to get the same performance since I have hunted in different parts of the east, the mid west and the western plains. I just got luck to find 2 brands of the same weight that happen to perform well in all the rifles. I've got a stockpile of muzzleloader ammo to share between them due to waiting and buying them on sale which is in the off season and after the season but I've being drawn to buying just the sabots in bulk as well as the bullets separately in order to save even more with hopes of not having to go through a bunch of different brands and designs on the sabots to get the same performance and no change in bullet for Hornady HTP's or may FTX's will be my choice to use in the same 240 grain or even a slightly heavier 250 grain but we'll see
Great video! I’ve had similar results in my testing. I’d like to see you test the LEE REAL bullets in .50 cal 250 grain and the .45 REAL bullet in 200. I primarily use 777 3F at a 75 grain by volume charge in my .45 Kentucky rifle and it chronographed at 1930 FPS average. It is a devastating bullet on deer. It shoots 2 to 3 inch groups with iron sights in my rifle at one hundred yards. Very accurate in my mind. I’ve yet to try the 250 grain .50 cal REAL bullet in my Traditions Buck Hunter Pro. This rifle does shoot the power belt aero lite 250s quite well.
I deer hunt with the Hornady Great Plains 385 and have never loss a deer. Bang Flop sometimes they may take a hope but not often. I shoot it in my Hawken 50 90gr T-777. Deadly. Enjoy these video's. 👍
Your bone density must be astounding after drinking all that milk!! I was least impressed with the Hornady Bore Driver and most impressed with the expassion of the Carnivore, XTP and TC Maxi (I rule this out based on fragmentation seen in another of your videos). However, I’ve always favored heavier expanding bullets like the paper patch and the Powerbelt ELR. IF the shot is well placed, there will always be a good blood trail to follow and sometimes, that is not the case with rapidly expanding, lower weight bullets in my experience. Enjoyed the video!
On impact the 250 grain FTX broke both front shoulders and took out both the heart and lungs with A 95 grain charge of black mz powder. They are very accurate bullets
Great test. I hunt with a TC Triumph with Blackhorn powder and have used the TC Maxi-Hunters but recently been shooting the sabot 240 XTP's. To me it will also depend on the area you are hunting. I get more effective range from the lighter 240 than the Maxi-Hunter, however, I believe the Maxi does hit harder.
I have a cow moose license this fall. I have to admit I am a Hornady kinda guy. I use Hornady for my .308 and 8X57 (SST). Your demo showed a bit of a failure in performance for the Hornady Bore Driver. I am going to replicate your jug test for myself and write you with results. I use 2 White Hot pellets for a load. Hello from Nakusp, BC
Please do let me know about your results! I know of several folks who have had better performance with the bullet than this test shows. I'm always happy to hear about other tests.
Great testing of all these bullets. I shoot a older CVA Accura could not be happier with the gun. Using Triple 7 powder 100gr. swab each shot due to crud ring. Also have a new unopened jug of Blackhorn 209 yet to use it due to happy with Triple 7. May need to open up and test with 209. Thanks
My Optima loves those ELR Powerbelt bullets in 330 grain weight. I just shoot a hundred grains of Triple-7 behind them. I caught them on clearance not long ago for a bit over half price, $17 per card of 15 that are regularly $30 so I stocked up. Bought fifteen more cards of them. I call them my (Torpedo's) as it looks like that's what you're loading when you load one. The front half/cone pretty well explodes in soft targets, but they act like a Nosler Partition with the shank portion going on forward and doing lots of damage. I don't hunt deer anymore, so accuracy means more to me than performance on target anyway, but I'm sure they would do a good job on game.
Well done video, I tested a fair number of bullets over the years, mostly out of curiosity but try to choose a bullet that will expand quickly on deer and give me a pass thru. I use water jugs for simplicity but its a bit of trouble to do multiple tests ie filling many jugs and picking up all the mess. So I can definitely appreciate you effort in filming so many projectiles! If your game I would like to see you test round ball at reasonable traditional mz velocity with varying calibers, say 36 thru 58 or 62.
I use the T/C 275 grain Maxi Hunter bullet, love them for Deer. I hunt with a T/C Renegade Hunter rifle and they are really accurate and they kill deer like lightning
Beautiful test! I am impressed at the number of rounds you were able to capture! I tried a similar test from 35 yards with my flintlock and 70 grains of 3FFFG powder. I was comparing the penetration of a 5.56, 303 British, and the .50 caliber black powder round. % different times I fired black powder projectiles into those darned jugs and never recovered a one! In jug 2 was the 5.56, jug 3 the 303, and jug 4 always had an entrance and an exit off line from jug 5. In this test I was using a 350 grain R.E.A.L. bullet poured from a Lee mold. Those are tack drivers in my rifle!
I can't wait to try the R.E.A.L bullets soon. I've had some issues in capturing bullets off camera, but so far just about everything on camera has worked well!
I'm a medium expansion and max pentation guy. I use the 300 gr XTP with a harvester crush rip sabot in my optima and 110 grs of black horn 209. I've shot deer from 10-125 yards with pass throughs.
I switched to 240 grain XTPs 3 years ago on top of 75 grains by volume of 777. My gun (old base model CVA optima) loves this combo. I’ve been very impressed on the performance on 3 deer so far. I get blood trails now and rarely did w my previous bullets (powerbelts). I love the price point of the xtp as well.
I've been using 240grn XTPs for at least 10yrs now and they perform great! I'm now shooting a CVA Accura V2 Lr using the 240grn XTP with 80grn of Blackhorn by volume. I shot 2 last year and 1 went 30yds and the other one was dropped in it's tracks. The XTPs usually drop em with a double lung shot!
For my money I like to use a 240 grain Or 250 grain maximum expanding powerpoint style bullet That is accurate out 200 I shoot one of the savage ML2 Nitro guns And have always had good performance with those weight bullets Thanks for the great video
I've taken my last 3 muzzleloader deer with the 370gr maxi-hunter (TC-lyman mold). It has trucked straight through and I've had no complaints besides the increased recoil. Before that I ran a variety of .44 or .45 bullets (home cast and store bought--mainly XTP's) in sabots and those worked fine as well. I'm going to try some roundballs through a 1:66 Encore this year, just for nostalgia sake. I was always pretty miffed by the ~75yd range that rb's limited me to in my youth, but now I'm looking forward to the increased challenge. I guess I went full circle as far as muzzleloading is concerned.
Last time I checked, the chest cavity of a deer isn't a water jug. Although testing each of these bullets in ballistic gel would have been very expensive, it would almost certainly have given you definitive, measurable results that could then have been compared to give you a meaningful picture of relative expansion performance. That said, Monday-morning quarterbacking is easy, while your testing was not. I appreciate your efforts..
I am one of the few in Canada that has managed to obtain some Hornady .50 cal ELD-X. I shot them today and they are great! Well worth a video if you can get some.
I prefer shock, but I place my shots right behind the shoulder just as the on leg is getting loaded and off leg is just about to rise giving me a great lung shot without taking any meat off the shoulders. I find that the shock resets the front nerve pack knocking them off their feet, as the nervous system resets the animal is basically dead. Please try the 250SST-ML bullet with 120gr BH209.
That 500 gr bullet has over 3000 ftlbs of energy at the muzzle at that velocity! That is a hammer! For some comparison, the other bullets are around the 2000 ftlb mark (similar to a 243 Winchester on energy delivered) the 3000 ftlb mark of that 500 grain bullet is 7mm Rem mag territory. Or, like comparing a typical 30-30 load, to a heavy bullet 30-06 load.
Same here, at 240 grains it is relatively light thus velocity and trajectory benefit. I'm propelling mine with only 90grains by volume of pyrodex rs and the accuracy is great with groups just over an inch at 100yds and recoil is pretty light.
The most common complaint against the Powerbelt Aero's is their lack of penetration on elk and big deer, but it looks like the new Long Range version may do better, while continuing the PB reputation for accuracy. Have to admit that I expected more out of Hornady's Bore Driver. I think you did a fantastic job of documenting all of the bullets performance. Thank you for all of your effort and superb presentation of honest and straightforward testing, in a manner that we viewers can duplicate if we'd like to do additional testing for ourselves. Awesome job!!!!
I think the most common issue with power belts is crappy blood trails. Same issue with any maxiball design. If you're not going trad I see no reason to not shoot sabots that can leverage newer bullet tech. It's not the 1860s.
@@danhoff4401 I've used sabots in AZ and WY, but they aren't legal in CO, so I've spent the last 39 years trying the next new thing that's legal in Colorado. I've killed elk with Powerbelt Aero Tips, Maxi Balls, Federal Trophy Lead and Trophy Copper, along with TC Shockwave sabots for out of state hunts. At this point, the Federal Trophy Copper has been the absolute best at penetrating and leaving a good blood trail, but I'm hoping the new long range Hornady Bore Driver might perform as well, while also providing slightly better accuracy.
@@johnoltrogge6333 ah, I'm in WI. No such restrictions on sabots. I think that federal is a good projectile, same concept of the modern manufacturing technology just avoids the sabot restrictions. I personally have gone to Barnes sabots but have also had good luck with TC shockwave. I will not shoot a powerbelt or similar tech at game again unless I acquire a 1:60 flintlock or something.
Great to see this bullet test. Penetration if you're shooting for bone . To break a animal down. Neck shoulder. Expansion going through lung's to take as much air out as you can. I saw that paper patch 500 gr you felt that one LoL 🤣. What is the rifle twist on your gun. Black horn is hot stuff powder. I would like to see black powder or triple 7 FF or 3 FF test . Bullet SST Hornady 250 300 gr. I tried the bore drivers in my pa pellet ultralight flintlock with 95 gr by weight but I couldn't get them to group. Even swabbed between shots.
That's a great video but i can't find Blackhorn powder anywhere. Any input on where to find some? Also Where i can find some .54 Maxi Hunters for my T/C Renegade.
Hey Jim, I got my maxi hunters from Muzzle-loaders.com. As far as blackhorn goes, it's trickling back onto store shelves at near double the price. My theory is that they are raising the price to slow panic buying and scalpers until the 2022 batch is made and distributed.
At this time, maybe check Gunbroker, or Dixie gunworks, or Track of the Wolf, since there is no more T/C? Midway does still have .50’s. I have been looking for Maxi’s in .45 too, no luck, patched ball it is. Good luck in your search
Seen a video with the 500 grain in a traditional muzzleloader 1200 yards a fantastic long shot,un realistic for any application but it could be done,thank you for your interest and expertise on old time weapons,we use to go to shoots and rondavouz a great adventure pre 1840 trappers
That paper patch 500grain monster had the best of all 3 categories wt retention, expansion, and penetration.
I agree that 500grain was a monster that's crazy amazing 👏
...and recoil.
My favorite muzzle loading bullet, the patched round ball, has held up over the centuries just fine.
Can’t beat a classic!
How far out is a round ball accurate?
I get 1" groups at 100 yards from RBs in 54 caliber from an Investarms Hawken flintlock. I've seen guys hit a target at 250 yards with RBs in traditional guns, but I wouldn't shoot game at that range.
A fraction of the cost.
I watched three of your videos back to back. You do an excellent job of providing good testing information on muzzle loader projectiles. Great job!
Thanks so much Kelly!
Great video content
My dad started using 80grains black and those 240 xtp back in the 90’s. I still use the same recipe in different guns today. Very effective.
Excellent!
Your videos are always very helpful and full of information . These are the best by far videos on muzzle loaders out there . A big thank you .
You are too kind, thanks Mike
That was a great demonstration of the different types of bullets . Where all my shots were under 100 yards , always went heavy cast lead .
I have found that a bullet that holds together long enough to get into the vitals of your intended game before shearing the petals and leaving a solid shank to penetrate has the greatest "knockdown" power.
I used a muzzleloader exclusively for about 15 years and have shot just about every bullet manufactured as of about 8 years ago. What I found is that MOST of the bullets perform about the same, providing you are within the velocity window in which they are intended to work. Some of the bullets are designed to perform with the higher velocity of a magnum charge, while others perform best when shot out of a more moderate charge of about 100gr load. Too high of a velocity, and they fragment, too low of a velocity, and they fail to expand enough to dump energy.
What I started doing was casting my own and started to testing different lead alloys to get the performance that I want out of my gun.
I found that a small hollow pointed 260gr .44 cal bullet cast of 1 part tin to 20 parts lead plus 1.5% antimony is the ticket. The antimony and tin are very important in this because the tin allows the bullet to not be as fragile and hold its petals longer during expansion. The antimony allows me to harden the bullet through heat treating.
I first heat treat the cast bullet to gain harness to the point it will not expand. Then, I put the bullet in a tub of water up to the crimping groove and anneal the nose of the bullet to soften it back up.
This makes what is essentially a soft nose expanding projectile that will expand down to low velocities, but the hardened shank will not expand and provide exceptional penetration for quartering shots or when blowing through heavier bone.
I have been a traditional black powder shooter since the late 70's and you cannot beat the soft all lead T/C maxi ball, Lee Maxi or patched round ball, but the bullet makers would all be out of business if shooters knew the truth. I'll stack it up against all the other bullets I have shoot over the years.
@@MrOldclunker Out of a flintlock or sidelock muzzleloader, a pure lead bullet is hard to beat.
My original comment is in reference to modern inline muzzleloaders.
Being 74 years old I aquired the Thompson 50 calico Hawkins Rifle years ago and being I live in Alaska half the time I have always wanted to get a Buffalo 🦬 and you’re show helps me decide on the best current bullets available, Thank You 🙏 MR
That 500 Grain Paper Patched Bullet is an absolute monster.
Yes, that was my take also, lol!!
Yeah buddy! Rod doesn't write warning tickets!
Howdy! I tested a Hornady Bore Driver 295 grain with water jugs at 100 yards. I used 4 plastic diesel juice jugs that are 2.5 US gallon (6 liters) each. I used a CVA Wolf using 150 grains ( 3 pellets) of IMR White Hots. I did not have a chronograph. The bullet penetrated first 2 jugs, into jug 3 that punched the back and dimpled jug 4. I think the larger jugs than you used had a significant effect on penetration.
I recovered the plastic ballistic tip and lead fragments in jug. This weighed 70.9 grains. Inside jug 3, I recovered the lead core, nicely mushroomed and a nicely petaled copper jacket. They weighed 199.4 for a total of 270 grains recovered from a 295 grain bullet. I did NOT get the explosive jug burst although 1 and 2 had big tears in them.
Very interesting! Thanks Gary!
Thanks for all the work.
Missed the Barnes copper! They are second to none. Devastating hydrodynamic shock and nearly always pass through the animals shot by the appropriate cal.
Thanks Wayne! I've got some Barnes on my shopping list for another testing video
Well done. Excellent demonstration of each bullet. Great consistent info. Sure appreciate all the time, energy, thought & resources put into this test. When I have used a muzzleloader in the past, I found the 240 XTP to be the most reliable and best performer overall. I used PowerBelt HP a little, Hornady Full bore flex tip, and some Buffalo sabots a little. I liked the TC full bore lead hp results you got. If I were hunting moose or big brown bear that 500 grain would be my choice. But it obviously offers a good bit more recoil. 3000+ ft.lb of energy is impressive.
Thank you! It’s close to 25 hours to get a video like this out by my estimates , I appreciate your kind words.
I agree, if I was hunting something BIG, the 500 would be my go to
Excellent video!! I have been using the Hornady 240 grain XTP with 3 triple 7 pellets for a long time. Absolutely devastating on deer and coyotes!
Thanks for sharing! I love to hear it!
After 30 years of muzzleloader hunting and testing on live deer I can confidentiality say that in modern in line equipment the Barnes Expander 250 are head and shoulders above the rest for putting meat in the freezer , good blood trails or dead right there .
Hard to beat dead right there
That paper patched bullet looks like it hurts on both ends.
You are right!
@@ILoveMuzzleloading Lots of authority though.😁😅 I looked like that after firing a 680gr bullet, over a full case of 3f, from my 577-500 No2. Eguivalent to the 50-140 Straight. Kicks a bit and I didn’t fire many. 🤣 You can see it here. ruclips.net/video/iXVDLHkOhec/видео.html.
The paper patch has crazy penetration and that somewhat reduces its situational usability. The Maxi Hunter on impact looks to flatten out to 3/4” and indicating that it transfers it energy very quickly. And, it’s less likely to hurt or kill something you didn’t intend to shoot.
@@ILoveMuzzleloading is there a video about this paper patched bullet. I’d love to roll up some of my own using a similar technique? I’d love to see how there rolled.
@@75vuongRule number 4: Be sure of your target AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT. Applies to hunting just as much as anything else.
That 500gr paper patch bullet was bad ass and it looked like you saw God from that recoil haha
totally. and that thing's penetration was insane.
I shot a few of those after the test and it left a nice bruise!
That thing ripped! That recoil was very obvious!! I liked that one! Woohoo
Loading an obstruction into my gun is not an option. LOL
Expansion with an exit wound is what I look for in a deer hunting bullet. I was surprised with the 275 grain T/C Maxi hunter, I will be giving that bullet a try. Thanks for the video
Thanks for the kind words Carl
@@ILoveMuzzleloading what Cind of bullet do you use ?
I shoot them out of my T/C Renegade Hunter 50 cal. They are awesome hunting bullets. I've shot them for years.
The xtp is a great bullet, especially considering that it's a very old technology bullet and usually inexpensive compared to other newer bullets. I usually buy .452 diameter xtps that are made for 454 casull or 460 S&W mag reloading and then buy MMP sabots separately. They perform great
You're a wise man. Thanks for that nugget. Happy hunting bro. And you thought no one cared what you thought, we live and die by what we learn from others, there's nothing new under the sun. Thanks for the tip.
Xtp by far the best out there
Wife's uncle used a saboted 240gr XTP out of an older Knight, running 100 grains of Pyrodex. We found his XTP looking like an advertisement. After traveling 30" through a good sized black bear.
The XTP is still a solid performer, maybe even more so in the modern smoke poles.
The TC maxi hunter has always been a favorite of mine. They’re devastating on elk in my experience. 110 grains of fffg pushing a T/C Maxi hunter in my .50 caliber Hawken is my preferred load.
Great video, especially that this was done in cold weather to better reflect the results seen during hunting season. Although I think it’s time to replace the chronograph.
Also many shooters use the Hodgdon Triple 7 Blackpowder Pellets and bullets like the Hornady SST-ML Low Drag Sabots that most of us sell in our stores, then we can recommend they check out your video when they are in question for the new shooters.
That Great Plains bullet has been my go to for 20 yrs
It's a solid choice!
I have removed dozens of the hornady xtp from white tail that performed just like yours did
I love the 300gr XTP's . They always leave a mean blood trail! Most of all, there're super accurate!
I agree with Carl With a C. I have so many Powerbelts I'll be shooting them for a while. My brother's used the Hornady XTP's for years and is very happy with them.
Nicely Presented! I found it interesting given the variances in the bullets that the implosion of the first two jugs were nearly identical on each test. I should note that the exception being the 500 grain bullet your friend made for you to try. I think I started flinching before you even loaded that freight train down the bore. And watching the slo-mo recoil of that shot (ouch) I can only offer that you may want to rethink your definition of friend. LOL
Thank you Jim. I noticed that as well, the initial hit for all the projectiles looks very similar.
The freight train bullets are a good boolit to keep me grounded, LOL.
Had to revisit this video. They have the Smack Down Carnivores on discount sale right now for half their normal going rate.
XTPs have served me well. Last couple years though. I have been using hand casted wheel weight .452 215gr Semi Wad-cutters. No surprise that a half inch hole in the right place, still kills. 😉
Been shooting 245and 300 gr. Xtp for 2+ decades in4 dif. guns all good - lots of deer
I have always leaned toward big bore, heavy for caliber projectiles for hunting and never really been disappointed. The added bonus is that little, virtually no meat is destroyed even with the shoulder hits I favored for so long. Recently (last year), I started taking game with traditional shots to the boiler room with large bore (.45 - .480 cal) slugs and found they put game down just as quickly with no meat loss. Except for high shoulder shots, there is no bullet placement that consistently takes game (like the whitetail) down instantaneously, so a good blood trail IMHO is the best guarantee for finding downed game and penetration has worked best for me.
I think you should shoot about 30 of those 500grainers and forget the rest. lol. Those things really rock you. Laughed for 2 straight minutes at your reaction.
Hahah! I think they'll need to rebuild my shoulder if I did that!
I love the carnivore smack down best bullets I've ever used not to tight in my cv a it's literally snug I'm happy with that round shoots smooth an straight my brother sighted my cva an hit at 300 yards so it's 😮 amazing i love it
My cva loves the hornady xtp240gr hollow points
The xtp is the best muzzleloader bullet made, been killing 150 to 250 lb whitetails with that thing for 30 years. The 240 grainier is deadly. I’ve never lost an animal yet with it and I’ve killed a pile of animals with it. I’m not a powerbelt fan at all, but that power belt he shot with the black tip was pretty impressive
Thanks for sharing Brian!
this is the same bullet I use. I’ve never lost a deer with it.
I got some of those XTPs. I didn't sight in with them this year (used the Hornady SSTs). But after seeing your test, my next range trip will shot some!!
Nice video and gave you a sub.
Great video! I was really impressed by the T/C Maxi Hunter's expansion. My dad used those for deer hunting back in the 80's and it was really cool to see they stacked up well against more modern bullets. I've used the Hornady XTP's for years and have killed a lot of deer with them. They seem to do a pretty good job. It would be really cool to see how a lead round ball held up in your next video. Keep up the good work!
Sometimes it’s hard to beat a classic! Thanks for watching
It is (in my opinion) to dump as much energy in the body if the animal as possible. For me the bullets with High expansion is better. Penetrating only 3 jugs
I have hunted with Hornady xtp in 44cal and 45acp from 240gr to 300gr in my muzzleloaders. Expansion is moderate in deer sized game. Less than what you are seeing from water. Water resistance at impact tends to actually be more than tissue resistance in game animals.
Either way, the xtp is very capable in hunting uses. I’ve taken many deer with them from broadside to frontal shots. They leave moderate wound cavities with good penetration and almost always an exit wound.
I’m hunting with powerbelt elr this year, and have taken one deer with them. It was point blank as the deer was already lethally injured. I got an exit wound which was impressive, as I thought the bullet would fragment to nothing inside. But the exit would was moderate, nickel sized, and the internal damage showed a great deal of lead and copper fragments. It obviously expanded rapidly and whatever exited was relatively small compared to what entered. As seen in your test.
I will likely go back to xtp projectiles next year, for the cost effectiveness of them and the consistent performance. They are still capable to 250yd in my Accura PR.
To help your chronograph results try making side curtains out of cardboard & ziptie them to the diffuser rods . Really helped me get readings under poor light conditions .
Many hunters I come across always talk about poor blood trails. You can have all the speed you want but unless expansion is dynamic blood trails are at risk. I use a Barnes 250 gr hollow pt for 25 yrs. Extremely accurate and great penetration. I have taken many animals but more blood would be a plus. The maxi hunter in your test impressed me. I am going to experiment with that and the thor higher grain bullet and see the results. Thanks for your dedication. Any comments or advice are appreciated.
We hunt Western Elk with 540 grain maxi hunter. That bullet knocks the elk down. That was a great video, thank you for posting it up.
very awesome video.
i liked the performance of the XTP. nice to see, as 4 boxes of them came with my muzzleloader i was gifted this fall. also came with a box of great plains and some round balls.
I think you’ll enjoy them
The next time you do this bullet test I wish you would try the Lee REAL bullet in both sizes, Great presentation.
Good idea Howard! I'll find some. Those are worth a try in my Hawken too!
I've used the Hornady XTP hollow point the last 2 seasons. The on game performance has been devastating. I had great accuracy out of my CVA Optima. I have found my bullet of choice.
What do you use for powder and how far shoot? Thanks. Bob
Sorry, just saw your video from two months ago where you tested the federal bor lock MZ. The results looked great, thank you.
thanks for the testing. I have been using the xtp's for years now, probably 50ish animals taken and been very happy with them overall. I have recently moved up to the 300 grain version and like those a bit better. I really like seeing how all of these different bullets perform under identical conditions.
I've been using the 240grn hornady xtp for years and they have never let me down! It's amazing how they perform on deer!
Thanks for showing us this test. Take care.
These muzzleloader bullet assessments crack me up. What works great in your gun may be a complete fail and vice versa. Likewise, running the identical powder charge in each one is another problem, as you really need to spend the time to figure out what charge is optimal for each bullet and sabot combination. Powerbelts for example are terrible out of my .50 inline, but others love them in theirs. After a lot of experimenting I landed on 120 grains of 777 behind a Speer bullet and a Harvester crush rib sabot. Far better for me than the Hornady stuff and slightly better than the Barnes TTSX, but again probably not the best for other guns. No substitute for putting in the time to find out what yours likes.
i have used the 240 XTP from back to 1990 and allways liked it, recoved a few from deer with the same results. i like the way it stays together i don"t want small pieces of metal in the meat
I've used the t/c 240 gr shockwave bullets in my t/c encore for over 15 years with excellent results on whitetails
Could you try thompson/center XTP jacketed hollow point sabots 300grain 50cal. thank you
I’d like to see some Barnes bullets tested! I’ve taken 5 deer with the TMZ and have had great/short blood trails
Barnes are on the list! Thanks Rapp!
Same here..my CVA Acura.MR...loves the 290 gr Barnes and 95 grs by volume. 209 Blackhorn powder..75 yd 3 shot groups are damn near one hole..which are where my deer hunting shot ranges are.
I don't get any blood trails with Barnes bullets.
After some bad experience with power belts we had switched to Barnes or Hornady SST sabots. Much better bullet performance.
Great stuff 👍 since I have 54 cal TC rifles good to see the maxi ball. I use both the maxi ball and maxi hunter. Thank you 🇺🇸
Thanks for watching Tom!
Are they still made? Can you still buy them in 54
Ive found the XTP to be a tack driver and does well on deer. Ive never had one run far after getting hit with it.
That's great Jack! Thanks for sharing.
Video number 2 i have watched and you get a sub great tests and info
Thank you very much!
That was cool!! I use the T/C maxi myself. When I have tried the CVA Powerbelts, they tend to key hole on me, if they work for you, thats great, I like the idea behind them, easy to load, but-- . Thanks for putting the time you do, into these projects.
Thanks for watching!
Really like these kinds of tests. Look up No Excuses bullets. Dave, the owner, sells heavy lead conicals in 41-50 caliber in various weights from 385-600 grains. He also sells sabots. Would like to see you test his 50 cal 420 grain and 460 grain bullets. Send him a message and see if he'll send you a few to test. He's a good guy. Use a felt wad from RMC oxyoke over the powder when shooting lead conicals. It protects the bullet and will seal the bore giving more velocity. Also you don't
need 80 grains by weight of blackhorn with heavy lead. 56 grains by weight or 80 grains by volume is enough with blackhorn 209.
Thanks! I should have used a wad, great thought! I've heard of "No Excuse" and will have to get some ordered for the next test. Thanks for your thoughts!
@@ILoveMuzzleloading No problem. Just subscribed. Really like the content you are putting out so far. I just got into muzzleloading last year and I love it! Bought a CVA Wolf with the scope mount and I'm shooting the No Excuses 460 grain sized at .503 for my barrel. Have not got it sighted in yet as I found out at the beginning of winter that my scope mount was loose from the factory. Was having trouble sighting it in all summer. Well now I've got that loctited down and am wait for spring to get this gun shooting good.
The 385 gr great plains bullet truly performs best loaded to lower velocitys. With 85 to 90 grain black powder equivalent this bullet is truly deadly to around 150 yards which is in most cases the limits to the guns it was designed for. Myself and several others I know have used this bullet exclusively on game and non game from coyote to elk and bear and it really lays them down and does about a 75 percent job of weight retainment.
Thanks Marty! A retest of the bullet is certainly on the way.
That 500gr bullet had some wallop to it and serious penetration.
It sure walloped me!
I have been using the 250 grain XTP with a Harvester ribbed sabot. My rifle is a TC Triumph Bone Collector .50 cal. For powder, I use Blackhorn 209 and 209 primers. It shoots very small groups at my sight in of 75 yards, and has proven deadly on game, with excellent terminal performance. I see no reason to change.
I’m really impressed by the xtp bullet. I presume that’s their 44mag pistol bullet so it’s designed to perform well around 1400 fps. And yet it stayed together at over 2000fps. Should work well in a 444 as well. Good bullet
I was pleased with it's performance as well
I’m impressed by the velocity of the powerbelt. One thing I’d like to say and I’m not an expert but I’d never shoot a 500gr bullet from my muzzleloader. The muzzleloader industry sets loose standards on bullet and powder configurations. That kick you received was from pressure expanding in the barrel. Hope everyone that reads this takes note of that. I’m not trying to be a Karen. I like your videos and compassions. I do reloading and load development. I deer hunting with nothing but a muzzleloader and have been for 31 years. Load development I feel is more important. It leads to accuracy and better shot placement in turn better hunting. My CVA likes 74gr 209 by weight with a Hornady bore driver. Thanks for the videos!
Thanks for the insight Chris, no "karen" percieved! I'm not eager to get out and shoot em much with that kick!
XTP is what I hunt. Performance, and stopping power
I've been doing this for awhile....like 30 years.....best bullet I've worked with for hunting has been the 285 gr. Barns x
Nice, thanks for sharing!
I love hunting with muzzleloaders so I have 5 scoped 50 caliber muzzleloaders that I switch up between them depending on where I'm going to hunt and the weather starting with a Thompson Center Black Diamond Express converted to use 209, a CVA Magnum Hunter in 209, a Knight Vision in 209, a Thompson Center Scout using #11 percussion cap and finally a Legacy SS using a #11 percussion cap that I bought back in the 90's from Sportsmans Guide and I believe if I'm not mistaking that the Legacy is a CVA knock-off due to the breech plug being the save a that of a CVA. I use Tradition and Hornaday HTP's sabots in 240 grain in all the rifles and 100 grains of FFF black powder with the exception of the Thompson Center Scout that I use 80 grains of powder. All rifles have yet to fail me on a hunt and these 2 brands of bullets have been the only ones that I've used in my modern muzzleloaders including the 2 percussions and I've found that altitude and temperature played a big role in how much powder that I had to use in order to get the same performance since I have hunted in different parts of the east, the mid west and the western plains. I just got luck to find 2 brands of the same weight that happen to perform well in all the rifles. I've got a stockpile of muzzleloader ammo to share between them due to waiting and buying them on sale which is in the off season and after the season but I've being drawn to buying just the sabots in bulk as well as the bullets separately in order to save even more with hopes of not having to go through a bunch of different brands and designs on the sabots to get the same performance and no change in bullet for Hornady HTP's or may FTX's will be my choice to use in the same 240 grain or even a slightly heavier 250 grain but we'll see
I have been using the Hornady 300gr XTP for many years with exceptional results and accuracy.
Wonderful! They are a nice bullet.
Yup. Never had a blood trail.. cause the deer never ran off. They all dropped on the spot.
I've had the exact same results with the same setup. Huge blood trails but deer almost always drop within sight so no need for searching.
Great video!
I’ve had similar results in my testing.
I’d like to see you test the LEE REAL bullets in .50 cal 250 grain and the .45 REAL bullet in 200.
I primarily use 777 3F at a 75 grain by volume charge in my .45 Kentucky rifle and it chronographed at 1930 FPS average. It is a devastating bullet on deer. It shoots 2 to 3 inch groups with iron sights in my rifle at one hundred yards. Very accurate in my mind.
I’ve yet to try the 250 grain .50 cal REAL bullet in my Traditions Buck Hunter Pro. This rifle does shoot the power belt aero lite 250s quite well.
Thank you Skip!
I deer hunt with the Hornady Great Plains 385 and have never loss a deer. Bang Flop sometimes they may take a hope but not often. I shoot it in my Hawken 50 90gr T-777. Deadly. Enjoy these video's. 👍
Thanks Jake! I may have been too hot. I hear good things about the GP
Hornady XTP were my go to sabot before I started using the Barnes TEZ. 😉
The Barnes are definitely on my list to try.
Your bone density must be astounding after drinking all that milk!! I was least impressed with the Hornady Bore Driver and most impressed with the expassion of the Carnivore, XTP and TC Maxi (I rule this out based on fragmentation seen in another of your videos). However, I’ve always favored heavier expanding bullets like the paper patch and the Powerbelt ELR. IF the shot is well placed, there will always be a good blood trail to follow and sometimes, that is not the case with rapidly expanding, lower weight bullets in my experience. Enjoyed the video!
On impact the 250 grain FTX broke both front shoulders and took out both the heart and lungs with A 95 grain charge of black mz powder. They are very accurate bullets
Great test. I hunt with a TC Triumph with Blackhorn powder and have used the TC Maxi-Hunters but recently been shooting the sabot 240 XTP's. To me it will also depend on the area you are hunting. I get more effective range from the lighter 240 than the Maxi-Hunter, however, I believe the Maxi does hit harder.
I have a cow moose license this fall. I have to admit I am a Hornady kinda guy. I use Hornady for my .308 and 8X57 (SST). Your demo showed a bit of a failure in performance for the Hornady Bore Driver. I am going to replicate your jug test for myself and write you with results. I use 2 White Hot pellets for a load. Hello from Nakusp, BC
Please do let me know about your results! I know of several folks who have had better performance with the bullet than this test shows. I'm always happy to hear about other tests.
Great stuff thanks for bringing us along
Anytime Steve!
Hornady XTP is great for my TC Endevor
ALWAYS HAD GOOD LUCK WITH THE REGULAR POWER BELT ON GAME BUT THE T C MAXI HUNTER LOOKS GOOD ILL TRY IT
THANKS
Shot power belts into a thick telephone book.Found bullets in book sideways.
Great testing of all these bullets. I shoot a older CVA Accura could not be happier with the gun. Using Triple 7 powder 100gr. swab each shot due to crud ring. Also have a new unopened jug of Blackhorn 209 yet to use it due to happy with Triple 7. May need to open up and test with 209. Thanks
My Optima loves those ELR Powerbelt bullets in 330 grain weight. I just shoot a hundred grains of Triple-7 behind them. I caught them on clearance not long ago for a bit over half price, $17 per card of 15 that are regularly $30 so I stocked up. Bought fifteen more cards of them. I call them my (Torpedo's) as it looks like that's what you're loading when you load one. The front half/cone pretty well explodes in soft targets, but they act like a Nosler Partition with the shank portion going on forward and doing lots of damage. I don't hunt deer anymore, so accuracy means more to me than performance on target anyway, but I'm sure they would do a good job on game.
Thanks for the insight ditch digger! That’s some sound application in my book
Awesome test 👌 keep it up Thank you 👍 🗽🇺🇸🦌🐾
The Vermonter
Thanks!
Well done video, I tested a fair number of bullets over the years, mostly out of curiosity but try to choose a bullet that will expand quickly on deer and give me a pass thru. I use water jugs for simplicity but its a bit of trouble to do multiple tests ie filling many jugs and picking up all the mess.
So I can definitely appreciate you effort in filming so many projectiles!
If your game I would like to see you test round ball at reasonable traditional mz velocity with varying calibers, say 36 thru 58 or 62.
I use the T/C 275 grain Maxi Hunter bullet, love them for Deer. I hunt with a T/C Renegade Hunter rifle and they are really accurate and they kill deer like lightning
I can see why!
Beautiful test! I am impressed at the number of rounds you were able to capture! I tried a similar test from 35 yards with my flintlock and 70 grains of 3FFFG powder. I was comparing the penetration of a 5.56, 303 British, and the .50 caliber black powder round. % different times I fired black powder projectiles into those darned jugs and never recovered a one! In jug 2 was the 5.56, jug 3 the 303, and jug 4 always had an entrance and an exit off line from jug 5. In this test I was using a 350 grain R.E.A.L. bullet poured from a Lee mold. Those are tack drivers in my rifle!
I can't wait to try the R.E.A.L bullets soon. I've had some issues in capturing bullets off camera, but so far just about everything on camera has worked well!
I'm a medium expansion and max pentation guy. I use the 300 gr XTP with a harvester crush rip sabot in my optima and 110 grs of black horn 209. I've shot deer from 10-125 yards with pass throughs.
That Maxihunter recovered looks just like the one I recovered in 54 caliber from the deer I harvested with it.
I switched to 240 grain XTPs 3 years ago on top of 75 grains by volume of 777. My gun (old base model CVA optima) loves this combo. I’ve been very impressed on the performance on 3 deer so far. I get blood trails now and rarely did w my previous bullets (powerbelts). I love the price point of the xtp as well.
I'm glad to hear you stuck with it and got into a combination that works for you.
I've been using 240grn XTPs for at least 10yrs now and they perform great! I'm now shooting a CVA Accura V2 Lr using the 240grn XTP with 80grn of Blackhorn by volume. I shot 2 last year and 1 went 30yds and the other one was dropped in it's tracks. The XTPs usually drop em with a double lung shot!
Got a doe with the xtp bullet and 3 firestar pellets just the other day. They work. DRT.
I love to hear that!
Happy to see that your testing at realistic range
Thanks!
For my money I like to use a 240 grain Or 250 grain maximum expanding powerpoint style bullet That is accurate out 200 I shoot one of the savage ML2 Nitro guns And have always had good performance with those weight bullets Thanks for the great video
Sabots in a 50 are pinched with some 50 cal jags. Try 45 cal jags to eliminate the lip pinch. Works!
Great tip!
Awesome video! I have been curious how the xtp would hold up.
I thought it did pretty well
I've taken my last 3 muzzleloader deer with the 370gr maxi-hunter (TC-lyman mold). It has trucked straight through and I've had no complaints besides the increased recoil. Before that I ran a variety of .44 or .45 bullets (home cast and store bought--mainly XTP's) in sabots and those worked fine as well.
I'm going to try some roundballs through a 1:66 Encore this year, just for nostalgia sake. I was always pretty miffed by the ~75yd range that rb's limited me to in my youth, but now I'm looking forward to the increased challenge. I guess I went full circle as far as muzzleloading is concerned.
Great video. I would love to see an accuracy test for these bullets at 50 and 100 yards. I am curious to see what ones hold a decent 3 shot group.
Thanks! I've got a 100 yard accuracy video coming soon with triple 7 and blackhorn 209.Working on 50yards and 100+ as well.
Last time I checked, the chest cavity of a deer isn't a water jug. Although testing each of these bullets in ballistic gel would have been very expensive, it would almost certainly have given you definitive, measurable results that could then have been compared to give you a meaningful picture of relative expansion performance. That said, Monday-morning quarterbacking is easy, while your testing was not. I appreciate your efforts..
Thanks for writing Chris! I'm saving up for some gel to test because I agree 100%.
I am one of the few in Canada that has managed to obtain some Hornady .50 cal ELD-X. I shot them today and they are great! Well worth a video if you can get some.
I prefer shock, but I place my shots right behind the shoulder just as the on leg is getting loaded and off leg is just about to rise giving me a great lung shot without taking any meat off the shoulders. I find that the shock resets the front nerve pack knocking them off their feet, as the nervous system resets the animal is basically dead. Please try the 250SST-ML bullet with 120gr BH209.
Thank you for sharing!
That 500 gr bullet has over 3000 ftlbs of energy at the muzzle at that velocity! That is a hammer! For some comparison, the other bullets are around the 2000 ftlb mark (similar to a 243 Winchester on energy delivered) the 3000 ftlb mark of that 500 grain bullet is 7mm Rem mag territory. Or, like comparing a typical 30-30 load, to a heavy bullet 30-06 load.
hornady xtp all the way!
100% agree! I've been using the xtp 240s for years and absolutely love em!
Same here, at 240 grains it is relatively light thus velocity and trajectory benefit. I'm propelling mine with only 90grains by volume of pyrodex rs and the accuracy is great with groups just over an inch at 100yds and recoil is pretty light.
Like to see the Thor. Bullets and the barns expanded bullets
More testing with THOR coming
The most common complaint against the Powerbelt Aero's is their lack of penetration on elk and big deer, but it looks like the new Long Range version may do better, while continuing the PB reputation for accuracy. Have to admit that I expected more out of Hornady's Bore Driver. I think you did a fantastic job of documenting all of the bullets performance. Thank you for all of your effort and superb presentation of honest and straightforward testing, in a manner that we viewers can duplicate if we'd like to do additional testing for ourselves. Awesome job!!!!
Try shooting at more reasonable ranges. Your not using a 30-06
I think the most common issue with power belts is crappy blood trails. Same issue with any maxiball design. If you're not going trad I see no reason to not shoot sabots that can leverage newer bullet tech. It's not the 1860s.
@@danhoff4401 I've used sabots in AZ and WY, but they aren't legal in CO, so I've spent the last 39 years trying the next new thing that's legal in Colorado. I've killed elk with Powerbelt Aero Tips, Maxi Balls, Federal Trophy Lead and Trophy Copper, along with TC Shockwave sabots for out of state hunts. At this point, the Federal Trophy Copper has been the absolute best at penetrating and leaving a good blood trail, but I'm hoping the new long range Hornady Bore Driver might perform as well, while also providing slightly better accuracy.
@@johnoltrogge6333 ah, I'm in WI. No such restrictions on sabots. I think that federal is a good projectile, same concept of the modern manufacturing technology just avoids the sabot restrictions. I personally have gone to Barnes sabots but have also had good luck with TC shockwave. I will not shoot a powerbelt or similar tech at game again unless I acquire a 1:60 flintlock or something.
Great video. First vid I've seen from ya, subscribed very quickly.
Welcome aboard!
Great to see this bullet test. Penetration if you're shooting for bone . To break a animal down. Neck shoulder. Expansion going through lung's to take as much air out as you can. I saw that paper patch 500 gr you felt that one LoL 🤣. What is the rifle twist on your gun. Black horn is hot stuff powder. I would like to see black powder or triple 7 FF or 3 FF test . Bullet SST Hornady 250 300 gr. I tried the bore drivers in my pa pellet ultralight flintlock with 95 gr by weight but I couldn't get them to group. Even swabbed between shots.
Thanks Mark! Will be setting up for 777 and true black here soon
@@ILoveMuzzleloading Great. Black Horn powder seems to be the way muzzleloader is headed. I just hope no one tries burning that stuff in side locks.
That's a great video but i can't find Blackhorn powder anywhere. Any input on where to find some? Also Where i can find some .54 Maxi Hunters for my T/C Renegade.
Hey Jim, I got my maxi hunters from Muzzle-loaders.com. As far as blackhorn goes, it's trickling back onto store shelves at near double the price. My theory is that they are raising the price to slow panic buying and scalpers until the 2022 batch is made and distributed.
At this time, maybe check Gunbroker, or Dixie gunworks, or Track of the Wolf, since there is no more T/C? Midway does still have .50’s. I have been looking for Maxi’s in .45 too, no luck, patched ball it is. Good luck in your search
Blackhorn is coming back down on the price! Try gunbroker.
Really enjoy your videos. They are very informative. What rifle do you use and what scope?
Seen a video with the 500 grain in a traditional muzzleloader 1200 yards a fantastic long shot,un realistic for any application but it could be done,thank you for your interest and expertise on old time weapons,we use to go to shoots and rondavouz a great adventure pre 1840 trappers