This video greatly demonstrates the law of diminishing returns. By going from 50 grain to 100 grain you did a 100% jump in fire powder. But by going 100 to 150, you only did a 50% increase, & the relative velocity increase almost perfectly matched that. Amazing video & demonstration!
@@10-4CodyWade going from 50 grains to 100 grains results in roughly 2.9x the energy(1322/781)^2. Going from 100 grains to 150 grains results in roughly 1.5x the energy(1606/1322)^2. There are diminishing returns for both velocity and energy
@@DennisThompson-q3n You are misinterpreting the data...the inefficiency of the 50 grain load is causing the confusion. A quick comparison of the 3 loads shows the following numbers in foot pounds of energy per grain of powder: 50 grain load = 6.64 100 grain load = 9.50 150 grain load = 9.35 The 2 heavier charges had close to the same efficiency, while the 50 grain charge was lagging far behind. The diminishing return was not happening as charge weight increased, but rather as it decreased.
Here in NC, muzzle loading season has been going on for a couple of weekends now. I use the same pellets (2x 50 gram), primer, and bullets (I use a CVA Optima from 2006). 2 Saturdays in a row yielded a harvest (1 buck and one doe respectively). Each at 97 yards. The only thing I am thinking about changing is possibly the bullet. As neither exited the deer. The buck was hit in the shoulder and the doe was spine shot. Thank God the buck circled back to me. Crazy blessed! He dropped 50 yards away from me. (Huge blessing as there was NO exit wound and therefore, no blood trail). The doe dropped is her tracks. Blessed on that one as well because again, no exit wound. I think the 245 grain, although retention weight and expansion were phenomenal they did not exit. Thinking about using a heavier weight bullet. But, that will be next season as rifle opens this Saturday... Who_Tee_Who!
It's not just about muzzle velocity. At 100 grains of pyrodex I used to have a problem with sabots not expanding. Instead, they just lasered a hole through the deer leaving a very small wound channel. Since I switched to 150 grains I'm getting much better expansion and and a much greater wound channel. My deer usually drop within 40 yards now.
NICE. You answered a question for a whole lot of people. Black powder (pyrodex, 777, etc) will give more speed with more powder only up to a certain point. After that, you are just wasting powder. Some of the old timers would shoot over fresh snow to determine what their maximum charge was. Oh, as an FYI, when using the ramrod, you should be holding it about 6 inches or so above the barrel. Working from the end risks snapping the rod in two - risk of stabbing your hands with the broken rod. Your rod looked like it was an unbreakable style, so you are fine, but wood rods need to be held and used lower down.
Most muzzle loaders "run out" of barrel to utilize a 150grn charge. I have found that after 120grns the charge is very minimal, and it makes more noise and smoke than it's worth. 120grns of loose pyrodex and a 405grn mini ball is the "sweet spot" for my Old .54 Hawkens. It hits like a buss and shoots a constant group with that combo. 👍 Marking the ram rod for your preferred loading is a good idea. Keeps your loading consistent from shot to shot. This keeps the advantages in your your favor. Muzzleloaders are like any rifle, the more consistent you load it the more predictable it is. Good luck WhoTeeWho!
My father in law got me a cva wolf 209 .50 cal. for Xmas back in 2004. We're in northern Michigan near the bridge, so it was about 20 degrees out. We go to the outdoor range to sight it in. Was my first (and only) muzzle loader. He had barrel wipes soaked in melted butter, they were almost like wax and he had me clean the barrel after each shot just to get me used to it. He had me shooting the full 150 load (3 pellets). My shoulder was so sore after about 10 rounds, I thought I could push the stock a little forward on the next shot. Wow big mistake lol. My nose was running, fingers numb and painful, but it was a memory I'll never forget..... btw, cool vid, thumbs up as always.
@RichardEvans-ns7hj We live down state 45min N.E. of Detroit, but the range and what used to be my father-in-law's place is in Atlanta Mi. He passed in 2011, and we've just kept up on it.
I am by nature a little critical on people who do this sort of thing in an "unprofessional" manner. And i want to criticize you for not turning on chrono ( or at least editing that part out). But i can't do it. You are so damned likeable and down to earth, the fact you didn't bother to edit it ended up making it even better! And has caused me to look at things a little differently. Thank you. And thanks for sharing the info.
@@poikelos6291 you don't read very carefully. And your commenting on old news. Did you realize i posted a comment after the original one? How long have you been faithfully following Who Tee Who? I almost didn't respond because its old and water under the bridge. But what the hell. If your going to troll i might as well oblige you. Smug remark from someone who doesn't know me. Having a bad day? Take it out on random person. Just bored? Or just THAT guy? Hmmmm? Lol!😂😂 what a putz. Umm... Duh... See if you can do better.😂😂😂👏 Oh my. You sure burned me down there!😂😂
Seems to me like 100 grains was your best result. I shoot a old style muzzle loader with 110 grains of loose pyro DeX and a 190 grain round ball and believe me that thing is deadly.
The reason that 150 grains didn't produce that much more speed is that part of the powder was burning after the bullet left the barrel. 100 grains is plenty.
I shoot 2 pellets and always wandered what the difference would be using 3. 2 has always worker very very well. Season starts Saturday in NC can’t wait.
Savage made a bolt-action Muzzleloader and 50 caliber it could fire smokeless or black powder would be interesting to chronograph one firing smokeless powder
Good video I also use 100 grains of powder as it is the best accuracy I get , I use Triple x powder as it is cleaner burning and makes reloading much easier than with pyrodex also using power belts gets great accuracy . My Thompson center hates sabots they foul the barrel with plastic
I found you looking up info about my new .50 cal black powder rifle clicked on your video, watched the whole thing and went to subscribe and realized I already did a long time ago hahaha. Thanks bud!!
Nothing I can get all muzzleloader, you got a love it lock stock and barrel, at least that one’s not just gonna be a flash in the pan like you sometimes get out of a flintlock
I've actually always used the 150 powder with aerotip powerbelts 185gr. I'd be interested to see chrono reading for these same powder loads but with the lighter powerbelt.
For whatever reason our muzzleloader season is at the end of the entire deer season after like 3 months of archery and this year there was over 2 weeks of rifle. The deer are beyond scared and ran for the hills by then. Im not seeing many now and we still have an antlerless firearm season before muzz. Crazy. Muzz season should come before the main firearm portion everywhere in my opinion.
Great video, I looking to buy my first muzzleloader, but the 209 primers are no where to be found, unreal there’s a shortage. I will have to wait to see if they ever come back.
In case you didn’t know, pyrodex pellets contain black powder to aid in ignition. That’s why the strong sulfur (rotten egg) smell. If you were to use a powder substitute such as triple 7 you’d have far less fouling.
Love my muzzle loader, got myself a Traditions Lightning in .50 cal using a #11 musket cap. Shooting about 90 grains of powder with a 240 or 250 grain, can't remember which, .45 in a sabot. Pretty darn accurate, when I'm not the problem aiming lol need to work on my aim more. Doesn't kick too bad either, though I think it's the muzzle break I should thank for that.
That was a very fun comparison. Thank you very much. Electrocuted by your truck battery and I read toady on your Instagram that you fell 20 feet setting up a tree stand. I know you are very busy but please slow down a little and be very careful. You are very bless you didn't get hurt or killed. Have a blessed week. GOD Bless you and your beautiful family.
@@WHOTEEWHO I was the same way when I was younger then a few things happened that made me slow down and be a lot more careful. Just take 10 seconds longer to overview things that will make a a big difference. Take Care!!!
@@chubbethsthunderyou ain’t lying. It’s a wonder how some of us are still here. I shot my ramrod out of my ML because I got in too much of a hurry. Got the scar to prove it.
The 50 grain load had about 330 ft/lbs of energy 100 grade load had nearly doubled the speed and thanks to physics this means it nearly triples the energy to over 945 pounds ft/lbs The 150 grain charge is a jump but the law of diminishing returns is kicking in a 50% jump in powder yet only a 20% increase in speed, ends at 1390 ft/lbs of energy This shows why smokeless powder was such a big deal , to put into perspective the 50 and 100 grain loads are in handgun levels of power, even the 150 grain charge was still quite a bit weaker then average 30-30 loads and less then half the foot pounds of a 30-06 load even though both those rounds use much lighter bullets
The barrels on most muzzleloaders are not long enough for the third pellet to ignite fully. Place a sheet on the ground and you will see chunks of unburned pellet.
Great video. My only thing is how you used the ramrod on the 50 grain. This is me and how I load my muzzy. I take the ramrod when I have the lead as far down as I can push and then I pull the rod up about 3 inches and start throwing the rod ( smacking tamping the bullet) down packing the round until the ramrod bounces back up. When the bullet isn't down the rod will not bounce back up. I use the powder still. But once the round is down and has the powder packed and bullet set the rod will bounce back up. That's just how I do it and its saves my hand. I use 80 grain powder and a hornady sst that weighs in at 250. I don't shot over 150 feet either so. Works well for me. Just some of my ways. Not saying you did anything wrong. Just telling you my way. Hope it helps. God bless and have a great day
I'm just worried that 150 grains might blow my gun up because it's a 1999 cva eclipse hunter. I'm just worried it won't be able to handle the extra hot load and pressures.
I have same rifle, and the same problem with the primers. It came with a small metal bar that reaches in to remove the things, however---- the scope is in the way to put new ones in. I end up pointing the thing at the ground and let gravity help a bit.
Low Pressure 50 Caliber Smokeless Loads in a 209 Factory Muzzleloader, 2 DVD set | eBay These 2 DVDs contain a demonstration of using Low Pressure Smokeless Loads in a 50 caliber factory muzzleloader, that are equal to or less pressure than that of Blackhorn209.
Those pellets seem a tad "soft" to me. I only shoot muzzle loaders and I use a Lyman Maxi (soft lead bullet of 245 grains which I cast myself), in my .45 CVA Firebolt. 70 grains 2F local powder consistently delivers 1600 fps - usually a bit more.
I'm surprised at all the comments about diminishing returns. That principle is not demonstrated here whatsoever. Gun powder is chemical energy, not velocity. When going from 100 to 150 grains there was a 50% increase in powder and a 48% increase in muzzle energy. What exactly is diminishing? That is a very efficient return if you ask me. The reason there was a difference with the first load is probably due to reduced efficiency from lower heat and pressure. It had 50% as much powder compared to the 100 grain load but only 35% as much energy.
i have an old huntsman run 120gr 777 ff w/ 250gr hornady sst-ml lowdrag, remington kleanbore primers excellent out to 320yds so far longest harvest shot i've sighted out to 450yds.
*loads 2 charges* “That almost doubled the speed! I’m surprised” Well yes, you did in fact, double the charge, so why wouldn’t it double the speed lol.. I’m just givin ya a hard time man, cool video. I’m not into modern black powder guns, but I do enjoy the old caplocks and flintlocks
This year was my first year to hunt with a muzzleloader so I’m kind of new and only loaded 50 grains with a 250 grain bullet and was able to harvest a doe at about 30 yards no problem
Law of demising returns seems to come into play after 100gr. The 100 gr load is more than enough to quickly drop any Deer. I still use a patched round ball in an old side lock only using 60 gr of fff powder and have never had an issue dropping Deer.
I moved to the country little over 3 months now. This morning I was going to work I hit a deer with my Jeep Wrangler. It hit my winch was a 5 point. Like change underpants at 3 a.m.
Awesome Right to the point 50 Grains is good enough for 50 to 100 yards to knock a deer down no trouble perfect bud,, Now i want to find the most affordable bullet them Power bells are to pricey for me
I wanna get a muzzleloader. These videos make me wanna look into cleanliness of em lol. Milk jug test would be awesome too and paper plate Ball vs those nice rounds you got. Also a Black Powder vs Pyrodex would be cool too.
Fouling just comes with the territory. I'm not sure about how in-lines are used but I shoot patched round ball, so my bore is always coated in lube which helps keep the fouling soft. My bore doesn't start to tighten up really until about the 3rd or 4th load depending on my powder charge. When that happens, I just get a patch damp (not wet) with moose milk and run it up and down a few times and then dry it out really well and continue with my day.
@@billmelater6470 i have CVA in line buck-horn i got 5 shots before needing cleaning but that's with clean burning pellets called IMR White Hots Pellets but using regular i can do 3 shots
Muzzleloader looks fun to shoot but at same time it's that gun you only shoot every once in while due to the extra work gotta do to be able to shoot it lol
Blackhorn 209. Only way to go. Non corrosive, doesn't absorb water, much higher pressures and velocity, greater range, easy cleanup, no crud rings, but pretty expensive.
Love my muzzleloader the state I live in is only shotgun or muzzleloader and I use my muzzleloader all the time and I use my fingers to put the power cakes in I never had a problem good luck with deer hunting
Just wondering why you don't use a bullet starter? I have tried to load mine without one before but I almost broke my ram rod, after that happened, I've used the bullet starter every since then.
@@WHOTEEWHO looks like you really don't need one anyway, you don't seem to have the problems I did. Might be because my Hawken rifle is almost as long as I am tall 🤣
Alittle bore butter would help you alot, my 5 foot long flintlock gets hard to load after 2 shots hence the bore butter makes reloading faster an you don't have to fight the ramrod
Definitely help the overall outcome. Much more consistent velocities. I'm thinking the 20 gauge brush he ran down through there probably help the second shot he did not do that on the third shot so he didn't see quite the same percentage of velocity increase.
I am guessing that your barrel is 20 inches long. The old muzzle loaders needed a longer barrel to consume all the powder. So a 28" inch or 30" barrel would have a much faster speed.
I use 100 grains by volume of loose triple seven black powder substitute in my muzzleloader which is the equivalent of 77.77 grains by weight and that seems to work for me just fine.
A 245 grain bullet at 781 is like a .44 Special or a .45 ACP. A 245 @ 1322 is like a .44 magnum. A 245 @ 1606 is like a .44 magnum fired from a rifle. Just for comparison.
Mi 45 Hawken Thompson Center Hawken rifle with a 300 grain Platinum powerbelt bullet within a hundred yards I do anywheres from 55 to 60 grains of loose powder if I go to 100 shoots Way High
I'm a traditional hunter i have quite a collection of Hawken rifles in other muzzleloader. Please don't ever lean your body over the ramrod if that had a spark of any kind left your hurt or dead.
That is very cool... I often wondered what 1 pellet would do... wonder what one of the 777 magnum pellet would do think they are like 60 or per pellet .... awesome video
In my cva pa pellet flintlock. With 20grs of 4f down the tube and 1 pyrodex pellet. And a 200gr Shockwave I got 1695fps. With just 1 pellet and 5 gr of 4ff I got 1410fps. Out my cva wolf with 3pellets and 200gr Shockwave I got 21 98. As the barrel got dirtier velocity started creeping up and maxed at 2267fps The pa pellet flintlock grouped the 200gr Shockwave and a 270gr fed bor-lok the best The wolf doesn't seam to care what it shoots it all groups well for me. Federal primers. Goex 4f
About what I was going for on the one I just bought. 2 pellets will be about perfect for me. Going to try some sabboted 44 mag bullets close to the same weight as those. Thanks for a great video brother!!👊🏼👊🏼😁😁
I've got a encore pro hunter it's a tack driver with 250gr sabots but bro it will not hold any groups with any of the power belt bullets and it has to be swabbed after every single shot
If you have access to a 10 GA for a slow motion ballistics gel test I'll send the ammo needed to conduct the test and I do know that one gel block won't stop the round but it would still be very interesting to see the temporary and permanent cavitation from it....... BTW thank you for being kind enough to take the time to talk to your fans I'm subscribed to several different channels on here and you are the only one that takes the time to comment and talk to us
i do 100 grains triple seven and the 285 hornady great plains lead hp projectile, in my traditions in line muzzle loader. about 2.5 to 3 inch groups at 100 yards then clean bore after 3 shots. kicks like a buff mule!!
I didn't know you weren't supposed to touch the pellets. Then, how the heck do you load them? I've used trad flinters with BP so that's not hasn't been an issue. This season, I'm trying the scoped, modern ML. 110 grains of Holy Black in a flinter gives me 1" MOA. The recoil is more than a 30-06.
I use powder instead of pellets....it's just more traditional and funner ...that's my opinion...I don't use a scope either...it's just open sight and powder...I also use the side mount percusion cap rifle instead of the inline modern shotgun style.
my thought for using a wire brush to clean ....that's what i do...but i dump the debris out of barrel as to not clog up the primer nipple ....just my thought
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
This video greatly demonstrates the law of diminishing returns.
By going from 50 grain to 100 grain you did a 100% jump in fire powder. But by going 100 to 150, you only did a 50% increase, & the relative velocity increase almost perfectly matched that.
Amazing video & demonstration!
Energy varies with velocity squared. There are no diminishing returns demonstrated here.
@@10-4CodyWade going from 50 grains to 100 grains results in roughly 2.9x the energy(1322/781)^2. Going from 100 grains to 150 grains results in roughly 1.5x the energy(1606/1322)^2. There are diminishing returns for both velocity and energy
@@marineastro Which load was the most efficient at converting the chemical energy into kinetic energy?
The real story is: it burnt the two pellets @near 100%. Adding the third was a waste as it probably only burnt 30% of it before it exited the barrel
@@DennisThompson-q3n You are misinterpreting the data...the inefficiency of the 50 grain load is causing the confusion. A quick comparison of the 3 loads shows the following numbers in foot pounds of energy per grain of powder:
50 grain load = 6.64
100 grain load = 9.50
150 grain load = 9.35
The 2 heavier charges had close to the same efficiency, while the 50 grain charge was lagging far behind. The diminishing return was not happening as charge weight increased, but rather as it decreased.
Here in NC, muzzle loading season has been going on for a couple of weekends now. I use the same pellets (2x 50 gram), primer, and bullets (I use a CVA Optima from 2006). 2 Saturdays in a row yielded a harvest (1 buck and one doe respectively). Each at 97 yards. The only thing I am thinking about changing is possibly the bullet. As neither exited the deer. The buck was hit in the shoulder and the doe was spine shot. Thank God the buck circled back to me. Crazy blessed! He dropped 50 yards away from me. (Huge blessing as there was NO exit wound and therefore, no blood trail). The doe dropped is her tracks. Blessed on that one as well because again, no exit wound. I think the 245 grain, although retention weight and expansion were phenomenal they did not exit. Thinking about using a heavier weight bullet. But, that will be next season as rifle opens this Saturday... Who_Tee_Who!
It's not just about muzzle velocity. At 100 grains of pyrodex I used to have a problem with sabots not expanding. Instead, they just lasered a hole through the deer leaving a very small wound channel. Since I switched to 150 grains I'm getting much better expansion and and a much greater wound channel. My deer usually drop within 40 yards now.
I use 150 in my cva works perfect.
NICE. You answered a question for a whole lot of people. Black powder (pyrodex, 777, etc) will give more speed with more powder only up to a certain point. After that, you are just wasting powder. Some of the old timers would shoot over fresh snow to determine what their maximum charge was.
Oh, as an FYI, when using the ramrod, you should be holding it about 6 inches or so above the barrel. Working from the end risks snapping the rod in two - risk of stabbing your hands with the broken rod. Your rod looked like it was an unbreakable style, so you are fine, but wood rods need to be held and used lower down.
You could, but longer barrels are needed and it’s not worth it
Most muzzle loaders "run out" of barrel to utilize a 150grn charge.
I have found that after 120grns the charge is very minimal, and it makes more noise and smoke than it's worth.
120grns of loose pyrodex and a 405grn mini ball is the "sweet spot" for my Old .54 Hawkens.
It hits like a buss and shoots a constant group with that combo. 👍
Marking the ram rod for your preferred loading is a good idea. Keeps your loading consistent from shot to shot. This keeps the advantages in your your favor.
Muzzleloaders are like any rifle, the more consistent you load it the more predictable it is.
Good luck WhoTeeWho!
Thanks Robert
Your Chanel is by far the best I have found for real life ballistics science and fun keep up the good work
Really appreciate you watching John!
I love muzzle loader hunting now. Best time of the year I thank
My father in law got me a cva wolf 209 .50 cal. for Xmas back in 2004. We're in northern Michigan near the bridge, so it was about 20 degrees out. We go to the outdoor range to sight it in. Was my first (and only) muzzle loader. He had barrel wipes soaked in melted butter, they were almost like wax and he had me clean the barrel after each shot just to get me used to it. He had me shooting the full 150 load (3 pellets). My shoulder was so sore after about 10 rounds, I thought I could push the stock a little forward on the next shot. Wow big mistake lol. My nose was running, fingers numb and painful, but it was a memory I'll never forget..... btw, cool vid, thumbs up as always.
@RichardEvans-ns7hj
We live down state 45min N.E. of Detroit, but the range and what used to be my father-in-law's place is in Atlanta Mi. He passed in 2011, and we've just kept up on it.
@RichardEvans-ns7hj
Map shows a little over an hour, but we usually make it in 45-55min
I am by nature a little critical on people who do this sort of thing in an "unprofessional" manner. And i want to criticize you for not turning on chrono ( or at least editing that part out). But i can't do it. You are so damned likeable and down to earth, the fact you didn't bother to edit it ended up making it even better! And has caused me to look at things a little differently. Thank you. And thanks for sharing the info.
Thanks for watching Gary
His presentation was similarly bothering me, at first then, I thought, "This guy's 'real'."
@@dennisedwards8954 Indeed he is. I have been a faithful follower ever since. Lol.👍👍
🙏🙏🙏 thanks Gary
@@poikelos6291 you don't read very carefully. And your commenting on old news. Did you realize i posted a comment after the original one? How long have you been faithfully following Who Tee Who? I almost didn't respond because its old and water under the bridge. But what the hell. If your going to troll i might as well oblige you. Smug remark from someone who doesn't know me. Having a bad day? Take it out on random person. Just bored? Or just THAT guy? Hmmmm? Lol!😂😂 what a putz. Umm... Duh... See if you can do better.😂😂😂👏 Oh my. You sure burned me down there!😂😂
Seems to me like 100 grains was your best result. I shoot a old style muzzle loader with 110 grains of loose pyro DeX and a 190 grain round ball and believe me that thing is deadly.
The reason that 150 grains didn't produce that much more speed is that part of the powder was burning after the bullet left the barrel.
100 grains is plenty.
Just ordered my cva and here to learn thanks
Awesome
I shoot 2 pellets and always wandered what the difference would be using 3. 2 has always worker very very well. Season starts Saturday in NC can’t wait.
An excellent example of the principle of diminishing returns. Thank you for sharing
Interesting results. That chronograph has been put through a lot of use at the range. Enjoyed watching your video.
Thanks for watching Mark!
Thank you! I'm about to clean and fire my Black Diamond for the first time. I bought the it used at a local sports shop.
I have loved me black diamond since I bought it new 35 years ago
Savage made a bolt-action Muzzleloader and 50 caliber it could fire smokeless or black powder would be interesting to chronograph one firing smokeless powder
I have the knight muzzle loader it shoots both pellets or grains powder ( Black) I shoot with 150 first shots and 100 grains in quick loaders
Good video I also use 100 grains of powder as it is the best accuracy I get , I use Triple x powder as it is cleaner burning and makes reloading much easier than with pyrodex also using power belts gets great accuracy . My Thompson center hates sabots they foul the barrel with plastic
Remember to put the dark end of the powder pellets facing the breach 👍
150 Gran is use in a muzzle loader that says on the barrel you can use Magnum loads (Mag) . That is to be safe.
I found you looking up info about my new .50 cal black powder rifle clicked on your video, watched the whole thing and went to subscribe and realized I already did a long time ago hahaha. Thanks bud!!
Thanks for watching Eric. I recognize your name. Appreciate you watching. Another muzzleloader video out tomorrow
I’ll be waiting!
Nothing I can get all muzzleloader, you got a love it lock stock and barrel, at least that one’s not just gonna be a flash in the pan like you sometimes get out of a flintlock
big question is chrono of pellet powder vs loose powder. I shoot 100 grains of Pyrodex RS with a 325 Maxi ball
I've actually always used the 150 powder with aerotip powerbelts 185gr.
I'd be interested to see chrono reading for these same powder loads but with the lighter powerbelt.
Great vid!!! Can’t wait for the gel test maybe some paper plates?
For whatever reason our muzzleloader season is at the end of the entire deer season after like 3 months of archery and this year there was over 2 weeks of rifle. The deer are beyond scared and ran for the hills by then. Im not seeing many now and we still have an antlerless firearm season before muzz. Crazy. Muzz season should come before the main firearm portion everywhere in my opinion.
Great video, I looking to buy my first muzzleloader, but the 209 primers are no where to be found, unreal there’s a shortage. I will have to wait to see if they ever come back.
In case you didn’t know, pyrodex pellets contain black powder to aid in ignition. That’s why the strong sulfur (rotten egg) smell. If you were to use a powder substitute such as triple 7 you’d have far less fouling.
I don't agree with that. I find the black powder I make burns much cleaner than all the sugar based factory powders.
Love my muzzle loader, got myself a Traditions Lightning in .50 cal using a #11 musket cap. Shooting about 90 grains of powder with a 240 or 250 grain, can't remember which, .45 in a sabot. Pretty darn accurate, when I'm not the problem aiming lol need to work on my aim more. Doesn't kick too bad either, though I think it's the muzzle break I should thank for that.
That was a very fun comparison. Thank you very much. Electrocuted by your truck battery and I read toady on your Instagram that you fell 20 feet setting up a tree stand. I know you are very busy but please slow down a little and be very careful. You are very bless you didn't get hurt or killed. Have a blessed week. GOD Bless you and your beautiful family.
Yup I'm a nut. Always in a hurry
@@WHOTEEWHO I was the same way when I was younger then a few things happened that made me slow down and be a lot more careful. Just take 10 seconds longer to overview things that will make a a big difference. Take Care!!!
@@chubbethsthunderyou ain’t lying. It’s a wonder how some of us are still here. I shot my ramrod out of my ML because I got in too much of a hurry. Got the scar to prove it.
Can you do a review on the powerbelt bullets? I have heard they don’t expand most of the time. Maybe through a piece of plywood then into a gel block.
WhoTee
ThAnks for Chronograph data and your always entertaining channel sir
Thrillbilly
Thanks for watching Thrill Billy!
The 50 grain load had about 330 ft/lbs of energy
100 grade load had nearly doubled the speed and thanks to physics this means it nearly triples the energy to over 945 pounds ft/lbs
The 150 grain charge is a jump but the law of diminishing returns is kicking in a 50% jump in powder yet only a 20% increase in speed, ends at 1390 ft/lbs of energy
This shows why smokeless powder was such a big deal , to put into perspective the 50 and 100 grain loads are in handgun levels of power, even the 150 grain charge was still quite a bit weaker then average 30-30 loads and less then half the foot pounds of a 30-06 load even though both those rounds use much lighter bullets
The barrels on most muzzleloaders are not long enough for the third pellet to ignite fully. Place a sheet on the ground and you will see chunks of unburned pellet.
Great video. My only thing is how you used the ramrod on the 50 grain. This is me and how I load my muzzy. I take the ramrod when I have the lead as far down as I can push and then I pull the rod up about 3 inches and start throwing the rod ( smacking tamping the bullet) down packing the round until the ramrod bounces back up. When the bullet isn't down the rod will not bounce back up. I use the powder still. But once the round is down and has the powder packed and bullet set the rod will bounce back up. That's just how I do it and its saves my hand. I use 80 grain powder and a hornady sst that weighs in at 250. I don't shot over 150 feet either so. Works well for me. Just some of my ways. Not saying you did anything wrong. Just telling you my way. Hope it helps. God bless and have a great day
I got mine cleaned up awhile ago I just shot it once. Be safe and GOD BLESS.
Hey Randle!
Great video I have always wanted one of those. I have never seen the powder like that before.
Thanks for watching Steven!
Awesome muzzle loading shooting. Everybody needs at least one muzzle loader for the whole experience. I won’t mess with loads more than 50.
Going for my first muzzleloader white tail hunt in a few hours!
I'm just worried that 150 grains might blow my gun up because it's a 1999 cva eclipse hunter. I'm just worried it won't be able to handle the extra hot load and pressures.
I have same rifle, and the same problem with the primers. It came with a small metal bar that reaches in to remove the things, however---- the scope is in the way to put new ones in. I end up pointing the thing at the ground and let gravity help a bit.
When season was over last 2 years when walmart clearnced out the stock on muzzle loader items i cleaned them out
same
Do your research first before you run a heavy load like that every gun is different
@@bigbuckfreak5087 that is so true!! Not all loaders can handle 3 pellets. Very very good remark sir..
@@winndixie6361 watched my buddies blow up in his face with 3 pellets
@@bigbuckfreak5087 Was actively thinking the same.
What you think about a sabot hollow point out of a Knight Disc with a magnum charge for 150yrd shots?
Depending on what I'm shooting, round ball, Buffalo Ballets, or Great Plains, I use between 60-110 grains of powder in the rolling block, 50 cal.
Low Pressure 50 Caliber Smokeless Loads in a 209 Factory Muzzleloader, 2 DVD set | eBay
These 2 DVDs contain a demonstration of using Low Pressure Smokeless Loads in a 50 caliber factory muzzleloader, that are equal to or less pressure than that of Blackhorn209.
I have that same muzzleloader, old cva. Was 150$ brand new. Good luck finding one for that price these days
Exactly what gun is this
CVA hunterbolt magnum
Those pellets seem a tad "soft" to me. I only shoot muzzle loaders and I use a Lyman Maxi (soft lead bullet of 245 grains which I cast myself), in my .45 CVA Firebolt. 70 grains 2F local powder consistently delivers 1600 fps - usually a bit more.
Nice job. WOuld have been interesting to see where the bullets (balls) hit at 50, 100 or even 75 yards with the different loads?
Good video. That was interesting and informative. Good job!
Thanks for watching Bobcat!
Great video! Love you kept the untested shot!
I'm surprised at all the comments about diminishing returns. That principle is not demonstrated here whatsoever. Gun powder is chemical energy, not velocity. When going from 100 to 150 grains there was a 50% increase in powder and a 48% increase in muzzle energy. What exactly is diminishing? That is a very efficient return if you ask me. The reason there was a difference with the first load is probably due to reduced efficiency from lower heat and pressure. It had 50% as much powder compared to the 100 grain load but only 35% as much energy.
i have an old huntsman run 120gr 777 ff w/ 250gr hornady sst-ml lowdrag, remington kleanbore primers excellent out to 320yds so far longest harvest shot i've sighted out to 450yds.
useful information. I been using two 60's . guess I been on the sweet spot all along
*loads 2 charges*
“That almost doubled the speed! I’m surprised”
Well yes, you did in fact, double the charge, so why wouldn’t it double the speed lol.. I’m just givin ya a hard time man, cool video. I’m not into modern black powder guns, but I do enjoy the old caplocks and flintlocks
The muzzle loader is ideal for people who like to spend time reloading, but it's still nice to have, great gun & video.
Thanks for watching!
There's only one reason why I would ever use this weapon, because I get to go out 10 days early on deer season. It's a big pain in the ass
This year was my first year to hunt with a muzzleloader so I’m kind of new and only loaded 50 grains with a 250 grain bullet and was able to harvest a doe at about 30 yards no problem
Awesome
Law of demising returns seems to come into play after 100gr. The 100 gr load is more than enough to quickly drop any Deer. I still use a patched round ball in an old side lock only using 60 gr of fff powder and have never had an issue dropping Deer.
Absolutely
Great experiment Who_Tee_Who. Keep them coming. 👍👊🏻🇺🇸💥💥💥
Thanks for watching R4!
I know those muzzle loaders are a pain but I love just how straight they shoot...I think its that extra heavy barrel...?
I moved to the country little over 3 months now. This morning I was going to work I hit a deer with my Jeep Wrangler. It hit my winch was a 5 point. Like change underpants at 3 a.m.
That was fun and informative !
Thanks for watching!
Very good testing as dig the results....Good stuff....
Thanks for watching Scott!
I was just scanning yt missing muzzle loader season and came across this . So cool . I use a flint lock myself. The PA pellet .
Hey muzzlemike!!!
@@WHOTEEWHO click bang !
Awesome Right to the point 50 Grains is good enough for 50 to 100 yards to knock a deer down no trouble perfect bud,, Now i want to find the most affordable bullet them Power bells are to pricey for me
I wanna get a muzzleloader. These videos make me wanna look into cleanliness of em lol. Milk jug test would be awesome too and paper plate Ball vs those nice rounds you got. Also a Black Powder vs Pyrodex would be cool too.
Fouling just comes with the territory. I'm not sure about how in-lines are used but I shoot patched round ball, so my bore is always coated in lube which helps keep the fouling soft. My bore doesn't start to tighten up really until about the 3rd or 4th load depending on my powder charge. When that happens, I just get a patch damp (not wet) with moose milk and run it up and down a few times and then dry it out really well and continue with my day.
@@billmelater6470 i have CVA in line buck-horn i got 5 shots before needing cleaning but that's with clean burning pellets called IMR White Hots Pellets but using regular i can do 3 shots
Lol, Paul had a good laugh when you graph was not on.
100 is the best
Muzzleloader looks fun to shoot but at same time it's that gun you only shoot every once in while due to the extra work gotta do to be able to shoot it lol
Blackhorn 209. Only way to go. Non corrosive, doesn't absorb water, much higher pressures and velocity, greater range, easy cleanup, no crud rings, but pretty expensive.
Love my muzzleloader the state I live in is only shotgun or muzzleloader and I use my muzzleloader all the time and I use my fingers to put the power cakes in I never had a problem good luck with deer hunting
Just wondering why you don't use a bullet starter? I have tried to load mine without one before but I almost broke my ram rod, after that happened, I've used the bullet starter every since then.
Dont have a bullet starter. Plus that is just more to carry around
@@WHOTEEWHO looks like you really don't need one anyway, you don't seem to have the problems I did. Might be because my Hawken rifle is almost as long as I am tall 🤣
Alittle bore butter would help you alot, my 5 foot long flintlock gets hard to load after 2 shots hence the bore butter makes reloading faster an you don't have to fight the ramrod
Definitely help the overall outcome. Much more consistent velocities. I'm thinking the 20 gauge brush he ran down through there probably help the second shot he did not do that on the third shot so he didn't see quite the same percentage of velocity increase.
I am guessing that your barrel is 20 inches long. The old muzzle loaders needed a longer barrel to consume all the powder. So a 28" inch or 30" barrel would have a much faster speed.
Okay now that was interesting and since I know nothing about muzzle loaders why can't you touch it with your hands? How are you suppose to load it?
Comes with a little tool to load it. Oil on your hands makes the powder not burn as good supposedly
@@WHOTEEWHO Oh I see, Well they may be right. But your works really well, lol.
I use 100 grains by volume of loose triple seven black powder substitute in my muzzleloader which is the equivalent of 77.77 grains by weight and that seems to work for me just fine.
My cva optima likes 100 grain of powder with the powerbelt 245 bullet. It's more accurate at 100 yrd then 150 grain of powder.
A 245 grain bullet at 781 is like a .44 Special or a .45 ACP.
A 245 @ 1322 is like a .44 magnum.
A 245 @ 1606 is like a .44 magnum fired from a rifle.
Just for comparison.
Mi 45 Hawken Thompson Center Hawken rifle with a 300 grain Platinum powerbelt bullet within a hundred yards I do anywheres from 55 to 60 grains of loose powder if I go to 100 shoots Way High
Hey bro, just watched your live feed of you playing the guitar. It wouldn't let me comment, but hey, that was awesome! Thanks
I'm a traditional hunter i have quite a collection of Hawken rifles in other muzzleloader.
Please don't ever lean your body over the ramrod if that had a spark of any kind left your hurt or dead.
That is very cool... I often wondered what 1 pellet would do... wonder what one of the 777 magnum pellet would do think they are like 60 or per pellet .... awesome video
Awesome. I don't hunt or use black powder, but this is my favorite video so far. I like learnin' me sumthin'.
I wanted to see what would happen
In my cva pa pellet flintlock. With 20grs of 4f down the tube and 1 pyrodex pellet. And a 200gr Shockwave I got 1695fps. With just 1 pellet and 5 gr of 4ff I got 1410fps.
Out my cva wolf with 3pellets and 200gr Shockwave I got 21
98. As the barrel got dirtier velocity started creeping up and maxed at 2267fps
The pa pellet flintlock grouped the 200gr Shockwave and a 270gr fed bor-lok the best
The wolf doesn't seam to care what it shoots it all groups well for me. Federal primers. Goex 4f
About what I was going for on the one I just bought. 2 pellets will be about perfect for me. Going to try some sabboted 44 mag bullets close to the same weight as those. Thanks for a great video brother!!👊🏼👊🏼😁😁
Awesome
Thank You WHO-TEE.. This video showed me what a been wondering, now i don’t need 3 Powder Pellets to hunt deer….Great video…
thanks for watching Larry
I've got a encore pro hunter it's a tack driver with 250gr sabots but bro it will not hold any groups with any of the power belt bullets and it has to be swabbed after every single shot
150 grains behind a 300 grain PTX Sabot, Power Tip Express. worked well on moose
💪💪
I’m gonna do 150 Grains of powder because I can 😂😂😂😂.. interesting video.. Thanks for sharing 👍
😜😜😜
This is about to be a really fun video
For it usally depends in the rifle. My wife cva bobcat does well. With 70 grains with round ball.
If you have access to a 10 GA for a slow motion ballistics gel test I'll send the ammo needed to conduct the test and I do know that one gel block won't stop the round but it would still be very interesting to see the temporary and permanent cavitation from it....... BTW thank you for being kind enough to take the time to talk to your fans I'm subscribed to several different channels on here and you are the only one that takes the time to comment and talk to us
Appreciate your comments bigtime! I answer every single one! Unfortunately I dont have access to a 10 guage right now :(
i do 100 grains triple seven and the 285 hornady great plains lead hp projectile, in my traditions in line muzzle loader. about 2.5 to 3 inch groups at 100 yards then clean bore after 3 shots. kicks like a buff mule!!
Awesome!
Very nice video can we use thi Pyrodex pallet in12 gauge cartridge.
Love powder season
I guessed 1200 for 2 pyrodex pellets. Close haha! Thanks for risking your brow again for our entertainment brother.
Thanks for watching!!!
I never shot a muzzleloader and thanks for the info if I ever got me one.
How are you supposed to load it *without touching it?*
I didn't know you weren't supposed to touch the pellets. Then, how the heck do you load them? I've used trad flinters with BP so that's not hasn't been an issue. This season, I'm trying the scoped, modern ML. 110 grains of Holy Black in a flinter gives me 1" MOA. The recoil is more than a 30-06.
I use powder instead of pellets....it's just more traditional and funner ...that's my opinion...I don't use a scope either...it's just open sight and powder...I also use the side mount percusion cap rifle instead of the inline modern shotgun style.
my thought for using a wire brush to clean ....that's what i do...but i dump the debris out of barrel as to not clog up the primer nipple ....just my thought