A hopefully helpful guide to how my sailing canoe works so well. I have a good time with it cruising and camping but also a bit of racing occasionally - www.yachtsandya...
I've seen sailing canoes all over the web. But this one is the best by far. With all the sail power you have, the only sugestion I can make is to add outriggers and then you can really fly. Good sailing
Excellent detail. This is the most sophisticated sailing canoe I have ever seen. It's nice for people to see the options. Some may want something simpler. Thanks, John
It's bolted in when I go sailing, both to the gunwhale and centre thwart, but I often take it off as it makes it easier to load onto my vehicle, as I slide it up from the front on its gunwhales.
This is really really really really nice. i know odds are you will never see this vid but i want to copy this setup if i can find all the parts and pieces. i dont have much wind and i do have strong rivers so i think the only way im gong to be able to get into canoe sailing is if i have an optimized sail canoe and i keep my gear light.
Yes, the hull is royalex and the sidebag straps are fastened with some D rings, glued in down in the bilges. The centre thwart is actually not factory but one I had made by Solway Dory to my specifications ie a bit thicker to cope with the extra strain of the leeboard thwart, which I made myself from the same sort of ash, stuck together with epoxy and stainless screws.
Thanks very much for your comment, much appreciated! I've made a few more minor mods to the canoe/rig since this video was shot, but it's basically just the same. I was sailing on the Firth of Clyde a few weeks ago, beam reaching for a couple of miles at 6,7,8 knots - maxing at 9.3, with no tide to speak of: so pretty fast for a canoe!
very nice mix of old fashioned beautiful looks and performance parts...looks fun to sail!....one question...only one leeboard, does that make it a windboard when its on the windward side, jokes aside.lol.....just curious how it performs ..i have sailed a boat with leebords, and it was only the lee side board that would be submerged, and would dig deeper when heeling, i think this helped it avoid leeward slide... rather than coming up out of the water like in your video....did you have to strengthen the mounts for it, in my experience the leeboard would generally stay down and in place with minimal problems, but if you left the windward board down in the water, it would veer left and right with some force, so we would always have the windward board up.....i guess our leeboards were ballasted with about 30lbs of cast lead, doesnt appear yours are as heavy. thanks for the vid, love to see people coming up with nice systems,
Thanks for your comments. Yes, it is fun to sail and it performs similarly to any small and lightish dinghy with the same sort of sail area, such as a Topper or Laser Pico. One leeboard works well and is much less hassle than two when you have to lower/raise them each time you tack. I have made and used a twin board setup and it worked really well, especially as I made the foil profiles different for each side, resulting in even greater leeway-resisting efficiency - but much more hassle in tacking than I wanted, as mentioned above - so just one for me (and the vast majority of other sailing canoes that I see here in the UK). I made the mounting bracket plenty strong enough to cope with the strain encountered when it's on the windward side - it does not adversely affect the direction of the canoe. Sailing the boat as flat as possible means the side profile that resists leeway is much the same on each tack; yes it will be a little less on the "wrong" tack but it is a large, deep board with a good foil profile. No ballast weights are necessary - for me that method is just for barges, such those used on the Thames and in the Netherlands! The term leeboard is appropriate because it resists leeway, not because it's on the leeward side of the boat.
Leeway is similar to many other small sailing boats and better than some! Performance is about the same as a Mirror or Topper - I have raced in mixed handicap fleets and had a good time - see link above
The benefit is too insignificant to make it worth it. And every time you tack there is more to do dropping one and raising the other. Just keep the canoe flat so the board is in the water the same amount on both tacks.
Inspiring video ! I was thinking of rigging a mast and sail from an Optimist to turn my Old Town Discovery 158 into a sail boat so when my project is more advanced I might be asking for some advice !
the leeboard also resists against being pushed over by a full sail. you know, actually keeping the boat stable in heavy or sudden winds I know it stops the boat from going sideways, focusing the force forward instead of sideways. I know it's common to be on the gunwale when speed racing, but for pleasure sailing, a lot less so and can be mediated with a longer leeboard to resist more against the boat lifting.......
I have a set of mini "flying" outriggers, but don't always use them, preferring to hike out when necessary. In more exposed and boisterous conditions such as very large lakes/lochs and coastal waters, the use of outriggers is more appropriate, especially as I'm getting older and less agile/resilient.
I use outriggers on coastal waters or when conditions are challenging on large inland lakes, but in light to moderate breezes there is no need. A canoe with this size of rig needs to be sailed fairly actively, sitting up on the side when necessary, just like most small sailing boats/dinghies etc.
Great job Kieth. Beautiful work all the way around. Does your mainsail wrap around the mast EASILY? If so, then how? Most mainsails that wrap around the mast only do so with inconvenient effort. I am searching for a way to build an easy reefing system for this type of rig. Many Thanks!
Yes it reefs easily. By releasing and unclipping the kicking strap (aka vang) and clew outhaul, it is straightforward to rotate the mast by hand, providing the canoe is upright and the sheet is slack. Spraying some silicone lube down the mast step can help keep things easy to rotate as well.
Thanks for taking time to reply Keith. Perhaps I've had problems in the past because the mast I was trying to rotate was sorta heavy. I'd love to examine your rig. Many Thanks!
That's an interesting comment. What do you base that opinion on? If you're referring to when the canoe heels briefly so the board is less in the water then I agree that the boat should be sailed as flat as possible. I had the board made professionally and it's the biggest and longest that I've seen used amongst those people I've sailed with. I've also had some success in racing so it can't be that bad!
Beautiful wooden handcraft! How did you protect the wood? Epoxy or oils? If you may want to share, what's the best way to maintain the light wooden surface texture and at the same time protect it well for years to come? I use birch tree (layer board) but still haven't figured out a good way to maintain it's beautiful surface with hardest possible protection.
you're only having a couple inches of board left in the water when it's heeling over and you need to actually sit up on the gunwale to stabilize it. I'd have another foot on it, you don't want to be in the water lol
Keith, how do you secure your side flotation bags to the hull? My canoe is fiberglass (yours is royalex?) and I have the same bags youdo. Trying to figure that one out. Also, your leeboard "thwart". I just noticed that it appears you added a contoured segment over 1/2 of the factory center thwart. I never considered that! If that is what you did would you share detail off site as to how you did it? I have the same angle and leeboard you do. I was going to make a separate detachable thwart...
Superb! I really like how you’ve integrated proper dinghy components to create a much more durable and professional set-up. I’m amazed that you are able to sail with a spinnaker/gennaker up without needing outriggers for stability! Do you have to limit the wind range you deploy the spinnaker in, or is it for purely deep downwind sailing, where stability is less of an issue (but oscillation then comes into play)? I also noticed your sailing number on the sail - is registration a legal requirement on inland UK waters?
Thanks for your kind words, Robin. The spinnaker/gennaker is really something to play with just in light winds. I do have "gull-wing" outriggers that I use in stronger winds and more exposed, challenging conditions, such as along the coast.
No, registration is not required on UK waters for sail craft ( it is for power boats on some). The sail insignia and numbers are for the occasional racing we do - but fairly light-hearted and for fun.
tip for people who are intimidated by all the rigging: if you use a simple sprit sail, you can have only one haliard to worry about and a very easy setup. You loose a bit of performance but its a lot less trouble ;)
This rig doesn't even have one halyard, it's mostly controlled by a sheet like all sails. Ok, it also has an outhaul and a downhaul, but a spritsail needs those as well.
I'm afraid you have been visually deceived by the video - the board is a lot longer than you seem to think at about 4 feet (see 2.30-2.50). Sitting up on the gunwale/side benches is perfectly normal sailing these and many other small boats and I have toe straps to minimise the chance of falling in. I've been sailing all sorts of boats for over 40 years and it's never happened to me yet!
It's a custom one-off made to my design spec by a really good sail-maker local to me here in England. But the design is very similar to the rig used on small dinghies such as a Topper, Laser Pico or many of the sailing canoes by Solway Dory.
I assume you placed the leeboard thwart to correspond with the center of your sail area. Does that correspond with the balance point of your hull, allowing you to actually use that custom thwart to portage the canoe?
I'm looking at trying to convert a Old Town canoe for sailing. Unfortunately, I'm on the wrong side of the pond to purchase Solway Dory rigs, etc. What are the diameters of your mast and boom? Height/length? I love your setup!
Thanks for the kind words. Mast lower section is 2 inch/50mm, upper section is 1.75 inch/45mm. Boom is also 1.75 inch/45mm. All 16 gauge anodised aluminium. Hope that helps!
General guideline is 2% of the sail area. That's for the part of the blade in the water. Can depend on the size/shape of the canoe and how readily it will turn, usually to do with the amount of rocker.
Sou grato pela quilha com a manivela,vou fazer uma,ela permite retirar em lugar que tenha paus e pedras, ótimas opções,poderia você me dizer como fazê-la?desde brasil
Where to place the mast depends on a number of things and not just the total length of the canoe. What rig do you have? Where will you be mounting the leeboard? What seats and thwarts do you already have in the canoe? Often it is convenient to mount the leeboard mount on the centre carry yoke/thwart if it has one. And to mount the mast just behind the front seat, if the canoe has one and you intend to leave it in place during sailing if you wish to keep the tandem paddling option as well.
+Keith Morris Great thank you ..do you think it is a good height or would you change it..i am making one for a Grumman 15 ft sport boat and i am gathering info .
+A st The height is a factor of what's needed to hold up a 5 sqm sail. Many canoes use smaller sails - depends what performance you are seeking, just making progress or more sporty.
I've seen sailing canoes all over the web. But this one is the best by far. With all the sail power you have, the only sugestion I can make is to add outriggers and then you can really fly. Good sailing
Fantastic. Congratulations.
I'm aiming at the same sort of thing but coming from the dinghy sailing side rather than the canoing side.
Excellent detail. This is the most sophisticated sailing canoe I have ever seen. It's nice for people to see the options. Some may want something simpler. Thanks,
John
Wow. Amazing quality and details. Proper sailing.... Fabulous. Much to learn here. Thank you!!!
wow, this thing is amazing. It's not just a conversion, it's a real and full blown dinghy
Thanks! I also enjoyed yours about how your canoe works. Very nice woodwork, especially the wooden blocks and pulleys! Greetings from England.
Very nice. You have saved me some time by posting. Looks very fast & very fun. Congrats.
Fantastic job! I'm considering to make a skin on frame canoe with sail. Your video has helped with some design elements. Thanks.
It's bolted in when I go sailing, both to the gunwhale and centre thwart, but I often take it off as it makes it easier to load onto my vehicle, as I slide it up from the front on its gunwhales.
thanks for sharing a lot of knowledge
Good video showing how it work. Greetings.
This is really really really really nice. i know odds are you will never see this vid but i want to copy this setup if i can find all the parts and pieces. i dont have much wind and i do have strong rivers so i think the only way im gong to be able to get into canoe sailing is if i have an optimized sail canoe and i keep my gear light.
That thing is classy, very nice work.
Glad you found it useful!
Yes, the hull is royalex and the sidebag straps are fastened with some D rings, glued in down in the bilges. The centre thwart is actually not factory but one I had made by Solway Dory to my specifications ie a bit thicker to cope with the extra strain of the leeboard thwart, which I made myself from the same sort of ash, stuck together with epoxy and stainless screws.
Well thought out and nice workmanship.
Thanks for a very nice video.
10/10 - excellent job on this craft. no wonder it cuts through water like razor! best Ive seen so far. congratulations on the well thought out design.
Thanks very much for your comment, much appreciated! I've made a few more minor mods to the canoe/rig since this video was shot, but it's basically just the same. I was sailing on the Firth of Clyde a few weeks ago, beam reaching for a couple of miles at 6,7,8 knots - maxing at 9.3, with no tide to speak of: so pretty fast for a canoe!
May I ask how do you furl the main sail??? Do you rotate the mast?
Nicely done!!
very nice mix of old fashioned beautiful looks and performance parts...looks fun to sail!....one question...only one leeboard, does that make it a windboard when its on the windward side, jokes aside.lol.....just curious how it performs ..i have sailed a boat with leebords, and it was only the lee side board that would be submerged, and would dig deeper when heeling, i think this helped it avoid leeward slide... rather than coming up out of the water like in your video....did you have to strengthen the mounts for it, in my experience the leeboard would generally stay down and in place with minimal problems, but if you left the windward board down in the water, it would veer left and right with some force, so we would always have the windward board up.....i guess our leeboards were ballasted with about 30lbs of cast lead, doesnt appear yours are as heavy. thanks for the vid, love to see people coming up with nice systems,
Thanks for your comments. Yes, it is fun to sail and it performs similarly to any small and lightish dinghy with the same sort of sail area, such as a Topper or Laser Pico. One leeboard works well and is much less hassle than two when you have to lower/raise them each time you tack. I have made and used a twin board setup and it worked really well, especially as I made the foil profiles different for each side, resulting in even greater leeway-resisting efficiency - but much more hassle in tacking than I wanted, as mentioned above - so just one for me (and the vast majority of other sailing canoes that I see here in the UK).
I made the mounting bracket plenty strong enough to cope with the strain encountered when it's on the windward side - it does not adversely affect the direction of the canoe. Sailing the boat as flat as possible means the side profile that resists leeway is much the same on each tack; yes it will be a little less on the "wrong" tack but it is a large, deep board with a good foil profile.
No ballast weights are necessary - for me that method is just for barges, such those used on the Thames and in the Netherlands!
The term leeboard is appropriate because it resists leeway, not because it's on the leeward side of the boat.
Nicely done.
Good job!
Thanks for posting this great video!!!
Leeway is similar to many other small sailing boats and better than some! Performance is about the same as a Mirror or Topper - I have raced in mixed handicap fleets and had a good time - see link above
The benefit is too insignificant to make it worth it. And every time you tack there is more to do dropping one and raising the other. Just keep the canoe flat so the board is in the water the same amount on both tacks.
That is a really nice set up.
+Darrell Tiencken Thanks Darrell - it works well.
Inspiring video ! I was thinking of rigging a mast and sail from an Optimist to turn my Old Town Discovery 158 into a sail boat so when my project is more advanced I might be asking for some advice !
the leeboard also resists against being pushed over by a full sail. you know, actually keeping the boat stable in heavy or sudden winds I know it stops the boat from going sideways, focusing the force forward instead of sideways. I know it's common to be on the gunwale when speed racing, but for pleasure sailing, a lot less so and can be mediated with a longer leeboard to resist more against the boat lifting.......
Excellent rig!
Did you consider outriggers and decide against them, or were you just aiming at a ‘hike out’ system for your boat?
Thanks.
I have a set of mini "flying" outriggers, but don't always use them, preferring to hike out when necessary. In more exposed and boisterous conditions such as very large lakes/lochs and coastal waters, the use of outriggers is more appropriate, especially as I'm getting older and less agile/resilient.
@@keithmorris4304 Thanks for the info.
Nice rig. I'm a bit surprised that you don't have an outrigger, as I thought the narrower beam of a canoe required some extra stability.
I use outriggers on coastal waters or when conditions are challenging on large inland lakes, but in light to moderate breezes there is no need. A canoe with this size of rig needs to be sailed fairly actively, sitting up on the side when necessary, just like most small sailing boats/dinghies etc.
thanks awesome video
Very nice rig.
Great job Kieth. Beautiful work all the way around. Does your mainsail wrap around the mast EASILY? If so, then how? Most mainsails that wrap around the mast only do so with inconvenient effort. I am searching for a way to build an easy reefing system for this type of rig.
Many Thanks!
Yes it reefs easily. By releasing and unclipping the kicking strap (aka vang) and clew outhaul, it is straightforward to rotate the mast by hand, providing the canoe is upright and the sheet is slack. Spraying some silicone lube down the mast step can help keep things easy to rotate as well.
Thanks for taking time to reply Keith. Perhaps I've had problems in the past because the mast I was trying to rotate was sorta heavy. I'd love to examine your rig. Many Thanks!
Keith Morris and
When you get ready for an outrigger kit for that sailing canoe, check out Expandacraft. Lots of choices.
I already have outriggers - by Solway Dory, as I live in the UK.
Keith Morris m
That's an interesting comment. What do you base that opinion on? If you're referring to when the canoe heels briefly so the board is less in the water then I agree that the boat should be sailed as flat as possible.
I had the board made professionally and it's the biggest and longest that I've seen used amongst those people I've sailed with. I've also had some success in racing so it can't be that bad!
Beautiful wooden handcraft! How did you protect the wood? Epoxy or oils? If you may want to share, what's the best way to maintain the light wooden surface texture and at the same time protect it well for years to come? I use birch tree (layer board) but still haven't figured out a good way to maintain it's beautiful surface with hardest possible protection.
I use Danish oil to protect the wood as it is easy to maintain by adding a coat when needed.
this is the F1 of canoeing because one gust of wind will have you trying to pull a sunken canoe from the lake bottom
you're only having a couple inches of board left in the water when it's heeling over and you need to actually sit up on the gunwale to stabilize it. I'd have another foot on it, you don't want to be in the water lol
Keith, how do you secure your side flotation bags to the hull? My canoe is fiberglass (yours is royalex?) and I have the same bags youdo. Trying to figure that one out.
Also, your leeboard "thwart". I just noticed that it appears you added a contoured segment over 1/2 of the factory center thwart. I never considered that! If that is what you did would you share detail off site as to how you did it? I have the same angle and leeboard you do. I was going to make a separate detachable thwart...
Beautifully done. Do u get much leeway?
More of a paddling sailboat really . . . I dig it.
Superb! I really like how you’ve integrated proper dinghy components to create a much more durable and professional set-up. I’m amazed that you are able to sail with a spinnaker/gennaker up without needing outriggers for stability! Do you have to limit the wind range you deploy the spinnaker in, or is it for purely deep downwind sailing, where stability is less of an issue (but oscillation then comes into play)?
I also noticed your sailing number on the sail - is registration a legal requirement on inland UK waters?
Thanks for your kind words, Robin. The spinnaker/gennaker is really something to play with just in light winds. I do have "gull-wing" outriggers that I use in stronger winds and more exposed, challenging conditions, such as along the coast.
No, registration is not required on UK waters for sail craft ( it is for power boats on some). The sail insignia and numbers are for the occasional racing we do - but fairly light-hearted and for fun.
tip for people who are intimidated by all the rigging: if you use a simple sprit sail, you can have only one haliard to worry about and a very easy setup. You loose a bit of performance but its a lot less trouble ;)
This rig doesn't even have one halyard, it's mostly controlled by a sheet like all sails. Ok, it also has an outhaul and a downhaul, but a spritsail needs those as well.
There's some rudder detail @ 6.25 or so
I'm afraid you have been visually deceived by the video - the board is a lot longer than you seem to think at about 4 feet (see 2.30-2.50). Sitting up on the gunwale/side benches is perfectly normal sailing these and many other small boats and I have toe straps to minimise the chance of falling in. I've been sailing all sorts of boats for over 40 years and it's never happened to me yet!
the leeboard seems a bit short considering the amount of lift your getting on the sail, should be longer.
Superb! What sort of sail are you using there bro?
It's a custom one-off made to my design spec by a really good sail-maker local to me here in England. But the design is very similar to the rig used on small dinghies such as a Topper, Laser Pico or many of the sailing canoes by Solway Dory.
Side bags are by Crewsaver, UK. What do you need to know about the rudder?
10..4 thanks for info
I assume you placed the leeboard thwart to correspond with the center of your sail area. Does that correspond with the balance point of your hull, allowing you to actually use that custom thwart to portage the canoe?
Smart setup, me likes yes.
I'm looking at trying to convert a Old Town canoe for sailing. Unfortunately, I'm on the wrong side of the pond to purchase Solway Dory rigs, etc. What are the diameters of your mast and boom? Height/length? I love your setup!
Thanks for the kind words. Mast lower section is 2 inch/50mm, upper section is 1.75 inch/45mm. Boom is also 1.75 inch/45mm. All 16 gauge anodised aluminium. Hope that helps!
Yes. Very helpful. Thank you.
And the rudder attachment? I didn't see that, and Who made your flotation bags?
Do you think there is any benefit to using two lee boards instead of one?
How fast have you sailed with this nice "ship"?
Around 10 knots or so, measured by GPS. But that is exceptional - 3 to 5 knots is normal.
Nice job! What size rudder blade to you recommend?
General guideline is 2% of the sail area. That's for the part of the blade in the water. Can depend on the size/shape of the canoe and how readily it will turn, usually to do with the amount of rocker.
Sou grato pela quilha com a manivela,vou fazer uma,ela permite retirar em lugar que tenha paus e pedras, ótimas opções,poderia você me dizer como fazê-la?desde brasil
canusail.org/building/building.html
Can you give me advise were to place the mast? The total length of my canou is 5 meters.
Where to place the mast depends on a number of things and not just the total length of the canoe. What rig do you have? Where will you be mounting the leeboard? What seats and thwarts do you already have in the canoe? Often it is convenient to mount the leeboard mount on the centre carry yoke/thwart if it has one. And to mount the mast just behind the front seat, if the canoe has one and you intend to leave it in place during sailing if you wish to keep the tandem paddling option as well.
How thick is the leeboard at its thickest point? How have the edges held up
It's about 25mm thick. The edges are fine - I rub it all down and re-oil it about once a year.
Can you please tell me how tall the mast is ?
+A st The mast is just under 5 metres
+Keith Morris Great thank you ..do you think it is a good height or would you change it..i am making one for a Grumman 15 ft sport boat and i am gathering info .
+A st The height is a factor of what's needed to hold up a 5 sqm sail. Many canoes use smaller sails - depends what performance you are seeking, just making progress or more sporty.
@@keithmorris4304 16 feet?
Yes that's right
Solway Dory won't ship to US?
No, it seems not. Far too much hassle with damage in transit (in spite of very robust packaging) and other issues.