Explain the advantages of an external power supply
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- Опубликовано: 3 сен 2017
- PS Audio pioneered the use of external oversized power transformers on stereo equipment. Learn how and why as Paul shares a great story of its history. Have a question Paul can answer for you? Go to www.psaudio.com/ask-paul/ and submit it. If chosen, he'll be happy to answer it live.
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I'd love to listen to a few records and drink a couple beers with this guy. His videos are great.
It is a surprisingly similar story for the Naim Hicap, it used a NAP160 transformer, vastly larger than the still oversized transformer in the SNAPS.
also the available uF count
Hi Paul: I had a PS IV Pre-amp / HCPS and PS Two C Plus amps, (2 of them), running my Maggie Two C speakers ( the "PLUS" version of the Maggies, I believe; that was LONG ago:-))... They are of course, Planar Magnetics, not Ribbons, though(I wish)!!! Your stories bring back the fantastic eye and ear opening joy your gear and the Maggies brought. I bought them from Rick Reed at Audio, Etc. in Jacksonville, Fl who carried all your gear. I'll NEVER forget hearing "Even In The Quietest Moments" by Supertramp, a cut I knew very well. I'd listened to it intently many times, but realized I'd never really *heard* it properly until then... Anyway, there was *no* going back! I ended up with Acoustat 2+2's and Audio Research amps, and it ALL still sounded great with my PS IV pre-amp with high current power supply! I moved to an Audio Research SP 6C pre-amp after that. I'd *STILL* own all that PS Audio gear, had it not been stolen from storage in the midst of a move!!! Thanks for many great years of listening. These videos help bring back some really great times!
Good story, but it would have been nice to hear about some of the parameters you hint about at the end of the video. What are the technical reasons why it sounds better?? The one thing I came here hoping for is the one thing I'm still left wondering about.
Paul, thank you sharing your stories and at the same time being able to add such knowledgeable details. I would not listen every day if it were not for all those “war stories” :).
very high quality video explanation
Clearly a subject Paul is passionate about, sounds like a game changer.
I think its because transformers that sit in the box that often are unshielded transformers, they generate magnetic fields that goes into the other components in the same enclosure.. Say in a preamp for example. Preamps and many audio circuits in general use very low voltages on the signal on the board that goes around and the lower the signal the higher it is sensitive for nearby magnetic field interactions. Thus moving the transformer out of the enclosure makes it less interacting with the nearby electronics circuits. It does not matter how good topology and construction you have when you have extremely strong magnetic fields nearby that destroys and interacts with the constructions performance. Move, shield and eleminate nearby strong electromagnetic fields and high frequency fields and the rest of the construction will perform with less degradation.. In other words it will then sound better. You can try as a experiment to hold a extremely oversized neodynium magnet near a transistor while its working.. The electromagnetic fields will interfere with the flow of electrons in the transistors.. Electrons we call the voltage... Please be careful so the amp wont missbehave due to close strong magnetic fields so nothing will catch fire. If using the same transformeer construction but just simply lifting it out in a separate box I thik electromagnetic interference is a big cause for performnce degradation not only in audio circuits but in other electronic circuits products also! Eleminating electromagnetic interference seems to be something few thinks about. Anyway greetings from Sweden! :)
Hi just to say thanks for the very interesting explanation. I would like to extract the mains transformer from my present preamp. I am curious to hear ... kind regards, gino
hi its me again Could it be also a vibrations issue ? mains transformer do vibrate These vibes could cause some kind of distortion
Congrats you have a fantastic personality.
Whether it is tube or transistors, the power supply is the real heart of any audio amplifier. It does not surprise me that the performance improved. In the old days of "IHFM music power" ratings the test on the equipment was done while substituting a "more ideal" power supply prior to running the test. This along with the "instantaneous peak power" specification, many amplifiers had ridiculously inflated output power ratings. for a while regulations changed and required more objective tests for power rating. However, today I think the "snake oil" power ratings have returned. This is especially true about speaker "power handling" ratings.
Precisely 900 likes!
And well deserved. Greetings from Brazil.
I have put equipment through UL testing, it's expensive and a real PITA. A manufacturer can save some real cash by using and off the shelf wall wart and that's pretty attractive to a lot of manufacturers.
PS Audio is to be commended for going over and above to use beefier transformers just for the sound enhancement they offer.
Yes, It has been proven. Recently I built a 5.1 Sound System with External power source capabilities. When I plugged a 12v 1 Amp Adapter, I didn't get the Sound clarity and Bass as per my expectation. But when I used a ATX Power Supply with 12v 15 Amp as the Power supply, the Sound changed dramatically!! Suddenly there was clarity, loudness and Bass which surpassed my expectation.
12VA power is nothing for a 5.1 system What system is ?
Love a good story
Does it have to do with the transient recovery time? i.e. by overprovisioning, we may be achieving a lower transient recovery time. So the experiment would be to compare a linear bench supply of approximately same wattage (not overprovisioned) with a super low transient recovery time. I've seen them in the 50 to 100 microseconds range for the typical 50 watts that a preamp would require.
Very interesting again!
Hello from Germany - Hubert
Paul McGowan You are very welcome! My friend has some of your stuff. I think I have to wait for Christmas. 😁 I loved your series about building a music room.
Take care - Hubert
Paul, what a fabulous life you have lead in a 'science' that you love working with other talented people and you have used your gifts to help people appreciate music - you could almost call it a vocation - congratulations!
Big fan of external power supplies.
Pros and cons. The pros are you have more space in a external power supply to produce a good power supply. Cons it needs a cable to attatch to the amplifier and that degrades sound quality (though not by much) having the power supply in a separate box with a cable feeding into the amplifier.
@@C--A if you size well it works I extracted the mains transformer from an old integrated and used the left free space to mount two huge Mallory caps I was shocked by the difference in the sound A remarkable improvement
On the topic of clean power and transformers,
It is possible to modify a great sounding amp with a non detachable 2 prong power cord, to take modern and high end 3 prong cables?
And if so, would there be any gain in sound quality?
I use fx audio tube-01 preamp, if I change the stock adapter to Linear Power Supply toroid LM317 with high grade audio parts in it, will I notice a huge difference ? Some ppl said that the sound is better and less harsh, which is what I want to eliminate in my system but I dont know what, could be my speaker or the tube preamp or anything. I'm not convinced because yea preamp use small power only 1A 5v, it draws power as needed why would there any impact in sound quality ?
I swear, one of these days the soundstage is going to so big/huge that it will rip a hole in the space-time continuum. I mean between running separate left and right amplifiers, to special power cables, to equal length speaker leads, etc, the sound stage by now should be unbelievable huge, right?
I did experience this same exact thing, however I would say it opened up the sound-stage rather, it cleaned up the sound-stage. I am running a little 192kHz/24-bit DAC that came with it's own (very cheap) wall transformer. I noticed right away after getting it connected that I had this extra sound now very apparent in all of my audio (music or movies). I was kind of pissed off, but I tried a few things and nothing worked. And then I tried a regulated 2 amp 12 volt adjustable power supply, and BAM!! It totally took the extra sound away, but I swear it made the DAC sound even sweeter than before. So, I can say using a "better" more closely regulated power supply will always help in almost any audio situation.
Love this channel, but I must point out I think Naim Audio were the first to use external power supplies.
Naim still does follow this philosofy to the current day, they even upgraded nearly all lineup. Same oversized toroids, which improve transient characteristics, which is key to PRaT.
Cyrus have a PSX-R regulated external power supply that can be added to most of their products, too.
I have used them in the post and they do make a big difference, but you need to have a system capable of resolving the upgrade to be able to tell.
Doubtful.
Naim brought NAPS out in 1975 1978 SNAPS.
Howdy.
This is truly bewildering.
Could it possibly have something to do with elecron momentum ??? Electrons have mass and an electron in motion should show momentum.
How would we keep electrons moving ? I suggest we rate the power supply to deliver say 15 times the needed. Then we connect a resistor across the output consuming say 10 times the preamp. consumption. And finally we connect the preamp. This way we keep the electrons in motion.
Could it be that the natural leakage in the overkill power supply was enough to keep the electrons moving ?
Regards.
main transformers vibrate If they are rigidly fixed to a metal chassis the vibes could propagate
But how does one install an external ps on a ordinary amp that allready has one? I have a Sugden a21se
Did you ever experiment with smaller pre-amp power supply as a separate component (instead of inside the same chassis with the pre-amp)?
Just curious if the issue was only magnetic interference due to proximity to the pre-amp and not the size of the power supply.
So 8 dislikes from PS Audio competitors???
I’m in the same discovery process with my DAC.
I’ll bench the 5v usb, a usb battery pack, a15 watt (P5O), and 45 watt fat transfo
This will be fun 😜🤓
Hello Pascal, does the Powerpack did good ? Cause there is I suppose not much interference inside a 10000mAh battery pack…
Battery pack are a massive improvement zero interference it will improve sound big time. Many audiophiles use separate battery packs if they can't get a dedicated line which is way more expensive option.
hi may i ask which specific battery pack have you used ? my dac did not work with one i had at hand
This is so weird. I didn't know about this until just recently. I was planning to build a nice linear power supply with multiple outputs which would feed all my hifi gear. I bought almost everything but I was lazy until my phono transformer died. It is not a big or expensive phono, just a small opamp driven Cambridge, but man, I was so confused what happened. I called my father who is an engineer too, and he was like: "sure this is what we call psychic listening". But I was NOT expecting any change. But the bass just wow... I can't really say much about the sound stage, but it fixed my only problem with the phono which was the low end.
So conclusion give your emplefier more amps then reqwierd
Interesting now I am wondering what’s the difference between an external power supply and a power conditioner...
Get both
Power supply implies dc voltage.
Power conditioner it’s a device will clean the AC before hitting your device power supply.
Your device needs to be able to “connect” to an external power supply, the power conditioner will work with any device that requires AC.
Does it work too with pure digital integrated amps?
Dude there are very very few pure digital amplifiers on the consumer market. Class D doesn't stand for digital, class A, AB, D are all analogue 👌🏾
cyrus were using external power supplies back in the 80s
I'm a Naim guy and can confirm that the external PSU's have an enormous impact on the quality of the sound..Naim have advanced this ideology since the 1970's when everybody laughed at them.
Upgrading the PSU is one of the most significant upgrades you can make until to get the high end kit which only works with the top tier PSU's...which, if you've followed the upgrade path like a crack addict (which I've done) you will already have the top end PSU's now awaiting their pre amp marriage.
External power supply's do have several cons as well 👍🏾 they have to feed from a cable into the amplifier. That means the amplifier can't draw the power quite as quickly compared to a internal power supply inside a amplifier. People don't realise having lot's of separate boxes/equipment connected - pre amplifier, AVR, amplifier, DAC, media streamer etc dilutes the sound from your speakers.
It's like a stream of water flowing but then several big rocks in the water slow down the speed of the water flowing. I myself use a very short signal patch, only a Oppo UDP 203 using the RCA analogue outputs straight to a very high quality stereo power amplifier.
Class D stereo power amplifier but designed by two European brothers who previously worked in the implementation and installation of equipment for various European radio stations. No SMPS, instead a internal massive toroidal transformer with sophisticated dual linear power supply's.
Same issue with RF amplifiers - amplifier under load being driven to limits will draw down voltage and current from a power supply. When the supply is far enough to keep on keeping on despite load and drive the amp is at optimum performance. And no different than it would be at lower levels with a smaller supply. I suspect IF there are real benefits to the regenerators PS sells it’s because of this. The other stuff is snake oil.
And Xbox One thought it was a good idea to copy Sony PlayStation and put the power supply in the console 😂 But desktop computers have internal power supplies too 🤔
Why don't you tell us the reasons this makes a difference? You said that over the years you have figured some of it out but then you didn't explain.
There's nothing new in all this... a good quality mains transformer with excellent regulation and very low leakage inductance is always preferred... being excessively oversized does absolutely nothing except to give audiophiles something to brag about ...
Too many war stories. Get to the point.