Disappearing speakers
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- Did you know you're not supposed to hear anything from your speakers? It's true. Speakers should disappear. I am traveling at the moment and pulled out from the archives one of my favorite Walks With Paul episodes for you to enjoy.
Such a humble and a great guy👍🏼
Danelectro Daniel yes, he brings over real positive vibes
must love, what he's doing...
Disappearing money..."the wife"
Paul is a rare sort of person.
I would love to talk with him every day.
He’s a best friend sort of person.
You’re the Bob Ross of the audio world Paul
Does he paint happy little speakers?
Julio-Cesar Florez Zaplana strange insult
Konrad
Lol! True.
I tried to find a painter analogy, but all I was able to come up with is that Paul might somewhat be the Jackson Pollock of the audio world.
I'd really like to sit down and have coffee with Paul. His stories and discussions are amazing.
Surely, can see that Paul likes good conversations and all people. The ingredients for success. He has the passion for "go get it". Congratulation.
Good to see you out and about, Paul. looks like a nice walk. When the pace of life just seems to be getting faster all the time, we should all slow down and live a little!
By listening to music for instance......
....but of course!!!!
You're a beautiful person, Paul. It's definitely all about the music.
Paul you have great concepts and really know how to deliver it to the world, loved the audiophile cap , you totally deserve it.
The source material is just as important as the speakers and amplification. I have heard many, many stereo recordings that just do not image well or at all and have terrible sound stage no matter what gear you use. Some recordings on the other hand are so well engineered that they have good imaging/sound stage even with mid-fi gear.
Did not know that. I specifically use speakers that produce base to 22-25K (down 6 db at the most). Without the full bass the music is thin and has no body to it. Favorite speakers are Arnie Nudell's Infinity Monitor 1a.
Thanks Paul! Words can be very insufficient to thank you for the Eureka moment I had today when you explained the science of the soundstage illusion. The first time I clearly experienced this illusion was with a PS Audio product (GCPH Preamp) on Vinyl (Audio Technica 440 MLa Cartridge) Playing Adele 21. The sound was so real and the imaging was so deceptive (sound came from different parts of the room far from the location of the speakers) that it left an addiction to Audio products to this day. And the chase goes on! God Bless You Paul. Wish you a great 2018.
First time a I heard the music comes from behind the speaker I though there is something wrong
"Imagine in your room there is a trio". Paul, you are so much better person than me.
lol, but you can only listen and not watch:)
I was able to achieve the sound of disappearing speakers with my current humble system. It's what i always look for as a finishing touch when setting up in a new place. Sadly, my friends didn't understand the concept, and why it took me 2 months in moving my speakers around bit by bit till i was satisfied. It wasn't till one of them commented that the sound appeared to have come from the TV, which was in between and right behind the speakers. Because we were watching a concert with the lights turned off, i asked him to close his eyes with the left-right stereo concept he was expecting....and he finally got it.
In the'70s my system consisted of 2 Bozak B4000 speakers for the front & a Bozak B305 speaker for the rear. The B4000 has 2 12" woofers, 1 8" midrange & 8 tweeters in a vertical line. The B305 is a "low boy" with 2 12" woofers (each with 2 coaxially mounted tweeters & 1 midrange speaker. I disconnected the tweeters on the B305. I had a Dynaco PAT-4 preamp that I built with Audio Amateur mods, a Dynaco Stereo 400 power amp & a turntable from my roommate's used stereo store (I don't remember what it was). Late '70s & '80s I had a Rabco ST-7 turntable. The system was set up using a version of the Hafler principle; the rear speaker is wired across the hot leads of the front left & right speakers. So the rear speaker has the difference signal between the left & right channels. When I moved to a new place I would set up the front speakers at one end of the room & the rear speaker in the center at the other end of the room. Then I would move the sofa back & forth until I had it in the best location to balance the surround sound with the front sound. I have a recording made at the Paramount Theater in Toledo, Ohio in 1965, just before it was torn down. It is of the pipe organ, with a microphone for the left & right pipe chambers & a stereo microphone in the back of the theater recorded on a 2-channel tape recorder. It is pre-Dolby, so you can hear the silence between tracks. It is basically "direct to tape". Playing it back, I close my eyes & it sounds as if I'm sitting in the middle of the theater.
Paul -- I really enjoy your non-snobby approach to music reproduction and your manner of teaching/sharing. I'm almost embarrassed to say but my stereo consists of nothing newer than about 1985 (except for the stylus). The only changes I've made recently is to switch to a linear tracking turntable, also from the 1980s, and I had my woofers repaired when the rubber dried out.
I'm used to the sound and I continue to get great enjoyment from my record collection. Unlike some of my more "astute" friends, I listen to content, not equipment. Sure, I could spend $$$ getting better gear, but can't think of a good reason to do so.
Please keep the great videos coming :-)
you are amazing, Paul. much love!
1:10 When a band is playing on TV it always sounds so much better coc you can see the band. It's remarkable how effective this is.
.....i am so happy to hear this,...me with my little music knowledge ,...small budget achieved all what you mentioned here,..YES,...its a truly amazing musical experience. Specially in the night times ...when everything else is so quite,...switch-off all the lights,...and its heaven. Phantom Center Channel playing music,..the 2 speakers and the sub are like they are not working...sound comes from behind the set-up..its amazing. Archived just by Yamaha AS501 Stereo amp, Yamaha NS777 towers and Infinity R12 Sub...
Mr. Rogers of sound. A beautiful day in the neighborhood indeed.
Hey Paul- Just subscribed to this great channel and nice to see you out of the office! Looks like you might have a lil giddy-up in your walk? Knee problem?
I’m coming to Denver the last week of February to visit my Mom and looking forward to making an appointment to come see you guys in Boulder and listening room one!!!!
mr Paul your efforts in educating us is laudable. Nothing beats experience...
Your analogy of turning around the mics becoming the sound source is clever but that''s not the way I understand reproducing the original sound with great fidelity.
In essence, a high fidelity audio system would reproduce the sound as the listener were positioned where the mics were during the recording. Anything else involves altering the original sound.
A good calibration of the listening room and sound system can only reproduce the position of the mics in relation to the sound sources.
So it's the listener who takes the place of the mics, not the speakers. If one wants to have the impression that the stage is closer or farther away (say the mics were recording from the first row and I was located in the middle of the concert hall) the sounds need to be nuanced/colored/modified electronically. It's the opposite of the 'pure sound reproduction' a carefully designed amp would claim...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To take it to the extreme, the only way to reproduce the "actual original" sound at a given location would be to record that sound with two mics located inside a cast replica of one's head, especially the earlobes, in the precise location of the ear drums, replicate the mouth cavity, etc. The playback would need to have isolated right and left channels -as the headphones do.
We don't need that kind of approach for a pleasant listening experience as your sound room clearly demonstrates. The claim that cables, amps and speakers have THE main role in reproducing with fidelity a sound stage is not accurate. A more accurate claim is that calibrating the room and sound sources would reproduce the 'original sound'... There are ingenious ways to trick our ears, and I'm fine with that... In many cases it makes the listening more pleasant, especially when the recording couldn't capture the live event with great fidelity.
Fun fact: if I were to modify the geometry of my earlobes by sticking some plaster around the ridges, it would be impossible to locate (without seeing) the vertical position of the sound sources. In fact, the alteration is so major that I would perceive a sound coming from above my head as coming from my feet. It would take time for my brain to relearn to decode the new tonal cues. The horizontal positioning still works since we use time related differences between the left and right ears... for vertical positioning we use tonal cues but for horizontal we use temporal cues.
*it wasn't me the one who asked for a refund. :} wish you all, all the best.
Thank you Paul, that was very interesting. Looking forward to know more.
Today I moved each one of my speakers 3cm away from the center. Only 3cm, but the difference in sounstage is just incredible.
I wish you a wonderful 2018!
Thanks Paul! I heard the phantom center first time when I was about 20y (46 now) by accident, I was already obsessed with audio though didn’t know anything, I bought a set soundcraft speakers and because I could not wait to set them up (in my tiny bedroom) I placed them on a table and connected my Rotel amp and Yamaha CD player (with volume control) that was placed in the center of the speakers, when I played the first tune I was baffled the voice was in the middle... I stumbled on the holy grail that dissapeared afterwards when placed poorly in my room, but it triggered something in me. PS 😉 i think the flowers are cornflowers (nice color)
great format.
Chicory. Name of the flowers, I think. In Bosnian language they're called Horse-Bite :), don't know if horses like chewing on those.
I got home made speakers (a bit like the KEF Uni Q) and they cost about $500 a pair to make. I also got extra woofers that cost about $150 and (being point source) I can easily imagine that it's real. I can "see" the vocalist and "see" exactly where every musician is. Other than point source, I also have "No" coloration in the med-range by tweaking the crossover really finely and I have treble that goes up high. I have soft dome tweeters and added small foil "tizzers" glued onto the tweeter domes to give it more top end (and it makes a lot of difference). I also run my speakers WITHOUT grills. I tried grills and no image cos the treble is that little bit less. If you want image you need top end, so get rid of the grills. My amp is also cheap but really powerful. When I crank that amp it blasts deep bass and amazingly loud cymbals (being 200+200 w @ 0.1distortion). Not as clean as my 80+80 NAD but the extra power more than makes up for it. Cranked, it sounds like a band cos it's so full and rich at high level, the sound just gets bigger rather than louder (amp headroom). And you need decent treble output that goes up high to get that "live" band sound, and the cymbals are stinging just like real ones. (That's where the foil comes into it.)
Justwantahover what drivers are you using? Seas Odin DIY ?
I have a reference for the 8" drivers. Go to eBay and copy&paste this onto their search bar:
"8" 150WRMS PA DJ Speaker Subwoofer Sub Driver 8 Inch 8 Ohms Quality Replacement".
I also have the same sort of thing for the tweeters:
"New 360W ALPINE DDT-S30 1 Pair Soft Dome Balanced Car Tweeters Speaker".
Make sure you get the "8 ohm" version of the woofers if you want it for the house (6.8 ohms). The reference will most probably be the "8 ohm" one. You will have to resist the woofer cos it's a "guitar speaker" but a good solid magnet one. It's WAY efficient compared to mainstream hi-fi woofers. I resisted mine by 8 ohms, along with two chokes on the crossover.
With the tweeters, you resist them by 2-4 ohms for house use. They are tricky to build, cos you have to make the tweeter as small as possible by stripping it down to the last ring of black plastic. It can even be stripped of that as well and still work but that is not necessary as they fit fine with the last plastic ring on (and in my case helps with the mounting of the tweeter into the woofer). lol
Heat glue won't work on metal so use some other glue to stick a plastic tube onto the back of the tweeter (I zip-tied mine) difficult, but most secure and you can't see any sip-ties. I drilled the thin plastic ring around the tweeters and drilled the hollow aluminium tubing and just zip-tied it (after a bit of a struggle). The hollow tube is for the tweeter cables inside the tube.
With the hollow plastic or aluminum tube you then can easily mount into woofers as it has a hole in it. And it has to be too small for a loose fit and then rap tape around tube for a tight fit. Just get rid of the dust cap on the woofer (by cutting it off) to reveal the hole in it and get rid of the mesh inside. Mesh comes off easily if poked by an object thought the hole in the woofer to push mesh off.
Good luck.
Hi Paul.
Your limp worried me. Hope it's nothing serious.
Kinda magic when it works, weird like a good ventriloquist.
Great video Paul. The blue flowers are chicory. :)
Good video. You wondered what the beautiful wild flowers along your walking path are called? I believe they are called Hollyhocks.
I soooooo much want to live in CO, I hate living in Florida!! I'm sick of wasting my life away sitting in the A/C 9 months of the year .. and then of course there are the hurricanes.
What a great video , I have learn a lot on this one ,,,
Who's ears get to decide what constitutes as high end? And how do you eventually know you've heard the best system you will ever hear? I've heard some amazing sounding systems that all sound unique in their own way. Their will never be a perfect system, in a perfect room, with the perfect source, going thru zero distortion amps playing thru perfect sounding speakers. And to that end, even if you had the opportunity to hear the actual musicians playing in front of you, I bet most people would be disappointed by the sound, why? It would still not sound as good played over a highly resolving system. Since we will rarely, if even ever, have the opportunity to hear the actual musicians in front of you, you will actually never know what perfect will sound like. And again, who's ears decides this? Mine? Yours?
My speakers dissapear, in some recordings to extent that drummer has arms full room wide :D
Thanks Paul! Happy New Year! :-)
Where is this nice weather?
Paul - not a clue. The spatial characteristics of the playback are caused by the radiation pattern of the speakers - not the "accuracy," not the electronics, not the direct sound arriving at the ears. The depth and space are caused by the ratio of reflected sound projected into the room from the speakers - like from the rear drivers of the IRS. It is manipulated by the D/R ratio of the speakers - radiation pattern, the speaker positioning, and acoustic qualities of the reflecting surfaces nearby. It is NOT magic, IS predictable and designable in the speakers. Dipoles and open baffle are particularly good at this if you aren't too near to them.
ruclips.net/video/YF8M-dAmZdY/видео.html
Multiple measurements have established that a real center channel is way better than a phantom channel and that the best music halls are because they manage to envelop music, so stereo is convenient but it is not the best. if you want realism you need multi channel and the use of multiple subwoofers located properly.
....I guess Stereo music is not multi channels.....its just 2 speakers with or without a sub....You are talking about a Movie setup
Hey Paul. Thanks for the great vids & education. I notice a slight limp in your stride, did the wife beat you up for playing music too loud or is there a great story behind the injury? I truly appreciate your willingness to share industry knowledge. Thanks.
If you have a room with musicians in it, to reproduce what you hear, the microphones should be where your ears are. Then where should the speakers be placed? It's not so simple
The microphones are not meant to capture "what you hear". They capture the performance of the musicians, then the speakers reproduce what the microphones captured. Capturing what you hear is something like binaural recordings that use ear shaped microphones.
humnaset
Binaural recordings use a 'Fritz'. This is a mannequin head made from a special material that has microphones in the ear holes.
When listened back through a decent set of headphones, a good binaural recording can sound holographic-ly three dimensional, making you believe you are not alone in the room.
Why reproduce what you hear?
Not even just behind speakers, but also in front of
No, you want the imaging to be behind the speakers.
this is good video, i bored with your office setup
They were upset they cant hear each channel :0 ? ? Thats like a “car guy” saying they love their 100hp car because they can hear the birds chirping while they drive lol what kind of car guy would that be. I would call them something else.
9:51 Hellooooo:)
That looks like the Coast of Northern California/Oregon Coast.
my system the speakers dissapear totally / the sound is way behind the speakers from wall to wall ceiling to floor but picking out individual musicians positions isnt the best what am i missing to get the seperation of instruments ????????? anyone
my father is one of those sorry fools who wants to hear the left and right speaker
🎉🎄 Happy New Year 🍾🎊
thank you and great 2018
What is your opinion on Bi-polar speakers?
I hate them, they are awesome.
ground loop in the system
Hipster! Like this video😊
RUclips has a thumbs up and thumbs down rating system . For guys like you they need to add a 2 thumbs up choice .
Number One!*****
Such a humble and a great guy👍🏼