Paul, your videos are fantastic. Thanks for taking the time to educate your viewers. I've always had a fascination with great sounding stereos, since my first car audio system back around 1991. I've always had wonderful sounding car audio systems (Thank you, Rockford Fosgate), but now that I'm getting a bit older and I'm 44 years old), I have developed more of a fascination with excellent sounding home audio...BUT, on a budget. So 4 months ago, after doing much research on the subject of cheap, yet viable audio components, I made my first home stereo purchase for less than $2000. I ended up buying a vintage Marantz 2230, a Chinese made Yaqin MC13s tube amplifier, and a pair of Fluance Signature Series floorstanding loudspeakers. Although it's cheap, I'm extremely happy with the system. It sounds amazing to my ears, with a generous soundstage, great imaging, and a warm tone, but I can't wait to upgrade to some much better components within the next few years. I would love to own a true audiophile grade system some day. I'm definitely drawn to your products and your videos show that you guys know a thing, or two. Keep up the good work and if I'm ever near Boulder, I'm looking you guys up. :)
Thank you for the video. In college we had to build a discrete amplifier and out of four lab groups only one got a signal to pass from input through all stages. Very challenging.
I've been working on my power amp design for more than a year now. Getting a power amp that works is not hard. Getting a power amp that works, has low distortion and is reliable is not. Douglas Self, Bob Cordell and Randy Slone have all written very good books on the subject. It took decades before big solid-state amplifiers were made reliable, and there's good reason for that.
What drives the reliability issue? Also, which book would you recommend for someone new to electronics? I can build a simple single ended class A amp but beyond that….
Designing power amps it's quite a challenge themselves. I am studying electrical engineering and I unlike other of my surrounding people done go to the store to buy a prebuilt kit and assemble it. I want to do it from scratch :D . I love your videos, keep up good work sir . :D
Many years ago I was like you. I learned the basics of audio design back then from articles that appeared in Audio magazine written by the late Georgia Tech professor W. Marshall Leach. I believe his stuff is still on the Internet. He published several amplifier articles that still represent very good designs today and I believe circuit boards are still available. Today'e books by Douglass Self and Bob Cordell are invaluable for the EE who wants to design audio equipment. Have fun!
A follow up question for Paul would be this: Why have there been so many variations in amplifier topologies over the years? It almost seems like engineers would have settled on one basic type that tends to work best for most systems and listening needs. I totally get that different designs yield different sound qualities but I’m still shocked at the number of variations over decades. And they still keep coming.
I did had the Kappa infinity 9 way back and a Nakamichi PA-7power amplifier rated 2x200 watts and they still clipped? However they were able to fix that problem .The deign of the amplifier with help from an American power amplifier guru (sorry forget the name ) I had many systems during the last 50 years but that system was the best I ever had . But this kappas needed plenty of power to shine !
There are a few amps out there that just won't transfer current that well, or handle complex/low impedance. Incompetent amps will sound soft or unfocused because they simply lack the control they need to have. I could tell that a Stasis amp for example, would curb stomp a mass-fi amp that was rated for the same power output.
Scott Lowell yes, there is a problem that almost every powereramp have, because they behave very load dependent. A good dampingfactor does not tell everything.
The best sounding and most silent power amplifier circuit i know in 43 years of audio is the circuit from the mid 90 and got better to the last edition with one stage extra for better low frekvens control.The end 3.2 and The end xp millenium no negative feedback local or global.small size Linear.The midrange never thin sounding.Sound dont change with power.I have bild a "high"sensitivity 98db active speaker system swith 40inch tall 6inch wide push pull planar magnetic linesource midrange and 20inch amt tweeter section and 12 inch woofer pr side.and needed much lower noise from the p.amps.the power amplifiers i used made to much hiss.could hear it from my chair.These are so silent that my ear have to be close to tweeter to detect it is on. I use a ground sound dnc24rpc dsp based active filter,1 pr side. I build a 4 channel verson of The end xp millenium in 2016 and again was supriced how good they are.I have put 2 stereo 21step autenators on inputs so i after calibrating the system room eq filters etc i can adjust the filters to 0db and level everything at the p.amp for that section of speaker Just a preference.The same type amplifier circuit was also used in a class a amplifier called Zapsolute from Scandinavia.They where design by LC audio
Ok so I know this is a little off topic but you mentioned putting an amp in a rack or outta sight. This is why appreciate some of the older tube amos especially mcintosh and some of there new tube amos. With there astetic design you would be crazy to put that outta sight I feel the amplifier is 2nd only to the speaker they run. The dac,preamp, cd, power conditioner everything except mabey the turntable is just a box but the amo has curves and tubes and shiney steel and lights under the tubes. I feel that designing the body of an amp to compare to the performance of an amplifier is just as much art as you get in hifi. Mabey it's just me but I like to look at my components as a piece of art. Kinda the way some people would look a monea. The housing of a component can be just as alluring as a sculpture of a Greek god. I find the astetic of a component one of the most enduring quality
I'm not a high wattage listener, the tube amp I built works well enough for my needs but I know how much of a challenge building a power amp can be, I had a go at building a solid-state amp with a differential input stage, voltage gain stage and compound-pair output stage ... with some speakers it sounded great and could put out some decent wattage, but on other speakers it just oscillated like crazy (I'm talking Mhz here). Talking of speakers ... half an ohm? Why would anyone make a speaker like that?
Looking inside some crossovers it is possible. Gaining one advantage producer may fail in other place. Such value may be imagined only for particular frequency and if it is somewhre is sopranos then power load may be not dangerous (except oscillation) But check also carefully all sheldings in preamp. Anyway if amplifier is not low output impedance then feedback will not adopt 2) signal will be silenced. . The worst problems are within speakers and crossovers. Their basics of operation lay in changing circuit impedance depending on frequencies. That is equal to shifting the phases. How can one demand that amplifier is not affected? Their deficiences could be eventually compensated by amplifiers by between other low output impedance. But my observations go further and show that it cannot cover deeper problem. Developed by me change of crossover philosophy although does not equalize impedance made for me opportunity to get rid of 90% misteries, No more questions about higher effectivity and special timbre of tube amplifires - solid with such speaker set may have almost the same and performance is upgraded in a way not possible for wide used crossovers. www.diysound.eu/?page_id=75
That depends. I would recommend it like this, 4000-16000w RMS speakers use 900w amp, 1200w RMS 190w amp As the motive is to feed it with enough energy, I would like to advise you to look at your speaker specs and amp specs and then do the needful.
i just made a power amp its a very simple power amp based on a 2n3055 and a mj2955 transitor and its a ab diode biased i use a lm833p op amp as a preamp and i use the transistors output for feedback to the opamp and only on one channel when the signal is high at the top of a sinus for example i see using s osiloscope a very high osilation ~15MHz (my scope is not that precise old analog scope great for oudio fel on its face ones needs readjusting ) and when you touch the transistors it goes away i have tryed somtings anyone a good idea to solve this
btw its stil sounds great and it has completely overkil powersuply using too 15 amp transformers at ~ 14 volts and i use huge 0.5F caps conected whit a inductor from the diode briges and i have 0.05 vold ripel on a 65watt resistant load
Having been in electronic manufacturing for decades, the single most common failure is power related. Logic failure is very low like less than a percentage point.
I have nothing but respect to some well known people in audio industry. But, clearly, designing a power amp should not be glorified. Just take a look at all the ads for myriad of names on any audio equipment Web site, or magazine. Sheer number of brands producing amps, DACs, CD players, loudspeakers etc. is mind boggling. Obviously, the whole thing is much, much easier then we are led to believe !
MrVoayer .Designing amps are easy because of IC.Anyone can build an amp around ICs these days.But just think of the designer of ICs itself ! He is the real hero! (may be a team of designers) Designing a great amp is a work of a genius .
The opinions are like asses, everyone have one. That's a sentence poorly translated from the movie 'Platoon' ha ha ha. It's true that when an engineer tries to break trought a certain point of regular perfomance, the constraints start to rise, be it a loudspeaker, preamp, phono amp or power amp. Every component of a hi-fi chain sure must have its challenges but I would not pick one over the others. I could be worng but.. I have my own ass😁
you would think a solid state amp would last forever. the power amp industry would disagree. the loudspeaker industry sighs in unity for getting a bad rap
Paul could go on forever about amps and please do.
Paul, your videos are fantastic. Thanks for taking the time to educate your viewers. I've always had a fascination with great sounding stereos, since my first car audio system back around 1991. I've always had wonderful sounding car audio systems (Thank you, Rockford Fosgate), but now that I'm getting a bit older and I'm 44 years old), I have developed more of a fascination with excellent sounding home audio...BUT, on a budget. So 4 months ago, after doing much research on the subject of cheap, yet viable audio components, I made my first home stereo purchase for less than $2000. I ended up buying a vintage Marantz 2230, a Chinese made Yaqin MC13s tube amplifier, and a pair of Fluance Signature Series floorstanding loudspeakers. Although it's cheap, I'm extremely happy with the system. It sounds amazing to my ears, with a generous soundstage, great imaging, and a warm tone, but I can't wait to upgrade to some much better components within the next few years. I would love to own a true audiophile grade system some day. I'm definitely drawn to your products and your videos show that you guys know a thing, or two. Keep up the good work and if I'm ever near Boulder, I'm looking you guys up. :)
Thank you for the video. In college we had to build a discrete amplifier and out of four lab groups only one got a signal to pass from input through all stages. Very challenging.
Great video! I agree 100% because i know what it takes, to design a clean and good sounding poweramp.
Great job Paul always a joy listening to what you have to say
Thanks!
I've been working on my power amp design for more than a year now. Getting a power amp that works is not hard. Getting a power amp that works, has low distortion and is reliable is not. Douglas Self, Bob Cordell and Randy Slone have all written very good books on the subject.
It took decades before big solid-state amplifiers were made reliable, and there's good reason for that.
What drives the reliability issue? Also, which book would you recommend for someone new to electronics? I can build a simple single ended class A amp but beyond that….
Designing power amps it's quite a challenge themselves. I am studying electrical engineering and I unlike other of my surrounding people done go to the store to buy a prebuilt kit and assemble it. I want to do it from scratch :D . I love your videos, keep up good work sir . :D
Many years ago I was like you. I learned the basics of audio design back then from articles that appeared in Audio magazine written by the late Georgia Tech professor W. Marshall Leach. I believe his stuff is still on the Internet. He published several amplifier articles that still represent very good designs today and I believe circuit boards are still available. Today'e books by Douglass Self and Bob Cordell are invaluable for the EE who wants to design audio equipment. Have fun!
A follow up question for Paul would be this: Why have there been so many variations in amplifier topologies over the years? It almost seems like engineers would have settled on one basic type that tends to work best for most systems and listening needs. I totally get that different designs yield different sound qualities but I’m still shocked at the number of variations over decades. And they still keep coming.
I did had the Kappa infinity 9 way back and a Nakamichi PA-7power amplifier rated 2x200 watts and they still clipped? However they were able to fix that problem .The deign of the amplifier with help from an American power amplifier guru (sorry forget the name ) I had many systems during the last 50 years but that system was the best I ever had . But this kappas needed plenty of power to shine !
You can't ignore a Pass labs' X350.5; most gorgeous amps ever.
There are a few amps out there that just won't transfer current that well, or handle complex/low impedance. Incompetent amps will sound soft or unfocused because they simply lack the control they need to have. I could tell that a Stasis amp for example, would curb stomp a mass-fi amp that was rated for the same power output.
Scott Lowell yes, there is a problem that almost every powereramp have, because they behave very load dependent. A good dampingfactor does not tell everything.
The best sounding and most silent power amplifier circuit i know in 43 years of audio is the circuit from the mid 90 and got better to the last edition with one stage extra for better low frekvens control.The end 3.2 and The end xp millenium no negative feedback local or global.small size Linear.The midrange never thin sounding.Sound dont change with power.I have bild a "high"sensitivity 98db active speaker system swith 40inch tall 6inch wide push pull planar magnetic linesource midrange and 20inch amt tweeter section and 12 inch woofer pr side.and needed much lower noise from the p.amps.the power amplifiers i used made to much hiss.could hear it from my chair.These are so silent that my ear have to be close to tweeter to detect it is on. I use a ground sound dnc24rpc dsp based active filter,1 pr side. I build a 4 channel verson of The end xp millenium in 2016 and again was supriced how good they are.I have put 2 stereo 21step autenators on inputs so i after calibrating the system room eq filters etc i can adjust the filters to 0db and level everything at the p.amp for that section of speaker Just a preference.The same type amplifier circuit was also used in a class a amplifier called Zapsolute from Scandinavia.They where design by LC audio
Ok so I know this is a little off topic but you mentioned putting an amp in a rack or outta sight. This is why appreciate some of the older tube amos especially mcintosh and some of there new tube amos. With there astetic design you would be crazy to put that outta sight I feel the amplifier is 2nd only to the speaker they run. The dac,preamp, cd, power conditioner everything except mabey the turntable is just a box but the amo has curves and tubes and shiney steel and lights under the tubes. I feel that designing the body of an amp to compare to the performance of an amplifier is just as much art as you get in hifi. Mabey it's just me but I like to look at my components as a piece of art. Kinda the way some people would look a monea. The housing of a component can be just as alluring as a sculpture of a Greek god. I find the astetic of a component one of the most enduring quality
What a great argument for autoformers.
Flemming Rasmussen (Gryphon) is another great designer
I'm not a high wattage listener, the tube amp I built works well enough for my needs but I know how much of a challenge building a power amp can be, I had a go at building a solid-state amp with a differential input stage, voltage gain stage and compound-pair output stage ... with some speakers it sounded great and could put out some decent wattage, but on other speakers it just oscillated like crazy (I'm talking Mhz here). Talking of speakers ... half an ohm? Why would anyone make a speaker like that?
Looking inside some crossovers it is possible. Gaining one advantage producer may fail in other place. Such value may be imagined only for particular frequency and if it is somewhre is sopranos then power load may be not dangerous (except oscillation) But check also carefully all sheldings in preamp. Anyway if amplifier is not low output impedance then feedback will not adopt 2) signal will be silenced. . The worst problems are within speakers and crossovers. Their basics of operation lay in changing circuit impedance depending on frequencies. That is equal to shifting the phases. How can one demand that amplifier is not affected? Their deficiences could be eventually compensated by amplifiers by between other low output impedance. But my observations go further and show that it cannot cover deeper problem. Developed by me change of crossover philosophy although does not equalize impedance made for me opportunity to get rid of 90% misteries, No more questions about higher effectivity and special timbre of tube amplifires - solid with such speaker set may have almost the same and performance is upgraded in a way not possible for wide used crossovers. www.diysound.eu/?page_id=75
I have the 7kappas. What amp should I use? Or is my Sansui 9900z (165 watts from hell) enough?
That depends. I would recommend it like this, 4000-16000w RMS speakers use 900w amp, 1200w RMS 190w amp
As the motive is to feed it with enough energy, I would like to advise you to look at your speaker specs and amp specs and then do the needful.
i just made a power amp its a very simple power amp based on a 2n3055 and a mj2955 transitor and its a ab diode biased
i use a lm833p op amp as a preamp and i use the transistors output for feedback to the opamp
and only on one channel when the signal is high at the top of a sinus for example i see using s osiloscope a very high osilation ~15MHz (my scope is not that precise old analog scope great for oudio fel on its face ones needs readjusting ) and when you touch the transistors it goes away i have tryed somtings anyone a good idea to solve this
btw its stil sounds great and it has completely overkil powersuply using too 15 amp transformers at ~ 14 volts and i use huge 0.5F caps conected whit a inductor from the diode briges and i have 0.05 vold ripel on a 65watt resistant load
Having been in electronic manufacturing for decades, the single most common failure is power related. Logic failure is very low like less than a percentage point.
No mention of Douglas Self?
Bongiorno, Hafler
geez ...
The only thing I may suggest is that you apprentice at Crown
The old Dynaco Tube power amps were quite simple and delivered great performance.
Semi-adequate performance over a limited range. Still, they were better than most of the amplifiers and especially receivers sold then.
Ever hear of Flame Linear er I mean Phase Linear amps?
The amp is burning down linear, not exponetial....
I'd pass on this one... Nelson Pass.
My power amp is half my total investment into hi-fi, it's really that critical
I don't understand what its that dificult its only 30 times and its AUDIO frecuencys isn't GHz nor ur dealing with uV signals...
Like cables, they "Don't exist" for the user.......for MOST of the users anyway.
wait...ps audio? that ps audio?
MickIntosh LOL!!
I have nothing but respect to some well known people in audio industry. But, clearly, designing a power amp should not be glorified. Just take a look at all the ads for myriad of names on any audio equipment Web site, or magazine. Sheer number of brands producing amps, DACs, CD players, loudspeakers etc. is mind boggling. Obviously, the whole thing is much, much easier then we are led to believe !
MrVoayer .Designing amps are easy because of IC.Anyone can build an amp around ICs these days.But just think of the designer of ICs itself ! He is the real hero! (may be a team of designers) Designing a great amp is a work of a genius .
The opinions are like asses, everyone have one. That's a sentence poorly translated from the movie 'Platoon' ha ha ha. It's true that when an engineer tries to break trought a certain point of regular perfomance, the constraints start to rise, be it a loudspeaker, preamp, phono amp or power amp. Every component of a hi-fi chain sure must have its challenges but I would not pick one over the others. I could be worng but.. I have my own ass😁
you would think a solid state amp would last forever.
the power amp industry would disagree.
the loudspeaker industry sighs in unity for getting a bad rap
can't be too difficult, everybody and their brother making them....in china...
🙄 Ignorance...