Gun VS Bear Spray - The Ultimate Debate
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- Опубликовано: 4 апр 2024
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Let's all try to be respectful in the comments. I know this is a hot issue!
Why is this a hot topic? When did self preservation become a touchy subject. The Bear doesn’t feel sorry for us when it attacks us. Neither should we feel sorry for defending our life by any means necessary.
I'm trying but the words come way faster than I can't type. So people mistake or misconstrued what you are saying. So most of these comments, no matter the topic are keyboard fighting 101. Apparently
Like you should have a podcast that you talk with big backpacking and outdoor creators and CEOs like the Nemo and the guy Mike
Kabar usmc😂
That's where it got its name
@@user70331 the marine crops chainsaw!
I've always carried a firearm loaded with Underwood Xtreme Penetrator rounds when I'm in the backcountry. After watching this video I realized that I need to balance that solution out with a can of bear spray. Having options is always better. Great video, gentlemen!
Same. I carry a 10mm in a chest holster with that same ammo.
I had to spray a bear in the summer of '13, it was damned effective, but I still carry a gun as well, I'm a BIG proponent of both.
I would agree normally but in this situation you need to have a protocol in place for which one will be your go to in the heat of the moment. Otherwise you risk being indecisive in that moment and getting neither of them out in time.
@@gearheadoutdoors True, but the protocol is easy: Spray First. It is the statistically superior bear defense. If you run out of spray (and you will so damned fast you won't believe it) then you have a firearm with which to fight for your life if you must.
Agree with having both, not because of the statistics, but because they serve different purposes. Being accosted by a slowly encroaching overly curious bear is not a situation i'd feel like i would want to discharge a firearm but would spray. I think the spray numbers have to be slightly overinflated because there are more "successful" encounters that are not true bear attacks
Gun I'm not worried about the animals. It's the people you need protect from. I'm a retired park ranger.
Haha! Bear Spray will deter humans too.
@@WanderingBobAK, Humans will shoot you before you can pull your spray. Humans kill for fun. Bears dont. Actually safer w bears than people.
Sold a car to an Alaskan wildlife photographer who had been attacked by 4 Grizzley bears over the course of his career. He said the first attack was in the 80's, so of course he had a 45, unloaded it into the bear (one hit the skull, but didn't penetrate it, 6 hit the body, one missed), and it took over 5 minutes of intense mauling before the bear's jaw opened. After a year in the hospital he ended up being attacked again, this time with a some hot .44 Magnum, and waited until the bear was actually on him so that he could unload all 8 rounds into it's head. Even then, brain gone, the bear's jaw didn't unlatch from his neck/shoulder for minutes, and he still needed major surgery, had a broken neck, and almost bled out. The third time out he had an AR-10 (308) loaded with hot hunting rounds, it was probably 15 years later so the ammo was much better, and this time he was able to get away without too much damage, even though it took 30 rounds during the bear charge to do it. The 4th time he had the rifle, but was attacked in his tent, used bear spray that he had ready to go for just that scenario, and he walked away completely unscathed - his conclusion - carry a rifle with plenty of proper ammo, and double up on the bear spray if you're gonna be around 1000lb Grizzley bears.
HOWEVER, he has photographed thousands of Black bears, and cited a study done by some wildlife preserve or something that compared about 100 provoked black bear attacks, and simply loudly yelling while making yourself appear huge (arms in the air, jumping), worked exactly as well as throwing rocks, and using normal pepper gel to the face (not bear spray). I later googled the study and found it to exist and back that up, although it's been over 10 years since then, so who knows what other research has been done. His summary on black bears was that you don't need a gun at all, so leave them alone and buy some pepper gel if you're worried - they're cute and likely don't need to be shot in any normal circumstance. He also mentioned that something called dog spray is a slightly larger and further projecting option if you're looking for a still lightweight alternative to bear spray (which is overkill for a black bear), but still very effective.
Figured I'd add this in just in case someone was interested! Be safe out there! I personally just carry a tiny Saber Red pepper gel when camping anywhere that doesn't have Grizzlies, and maybe a small firearm (CCW) if I'm going to be near any sketchy towns or areas with lots of drug issues.
I've hunted large game my whole life including being on bear hunts for brown and black bears. I've watched bears charge after 2 or more well placed shots from large caliber rifles. Bears are extremely fast and close the gap in a blink of an eye. Neither is a guarantee especially if the bear is determined.
I think most people who think they could take down a Grizzly have never seen how fast and gnarly they are in person .
A determined grizzly will be on you before he could have pulled anything out to shoot/spray.
i think most people who dont think they can take down a grizzly have never trained with 10mm or 50AE haha... if you train, you could. ideally, you would never have to but its quite realistic with the proper tool.
@@rockymountboy thats not true. a mediocre trained individual should be able to get their gun out and shots on target in under 2 seconds. you will have 5-10 before a bear gets to you unless you are the most clueless, oblivious individual ever and in that case this topic is irrelevant.
@@maximusjoseppi5904 How many times have you shot a bear that was running you down?
Rangers and biologists in Grand Teton and Yellowstone carry bear spray. Some are hunters and still prefer bear spray over a gun.
I have to comment on this one. I was working as a fishery biologist outside of Meeteetse, Wyoming with an outfitter that had his dog off leash in a wilderness area. When we crested a hill we saw a female black bear that was protecting its dead cub on the trail and everyone on horses took off. As luck would have it, I was on foot and left behind. The dog however, continued to harass the mother bear and when the bear charged, the dog took off leaving me with an angry mother bear to deal with. I had my bear spray out of the holster and the safety clip was off as well (this is a good argument for practicing and making this a muscle memory occurrence, because I don't even remember doing these things). She bluff charged me then stood up on her back legs and started clacking her jaws. She bluffed two more times and then walked away. She was never close enough to shoot the spray effectively, but it felt like she was on top of me. I love dogs and I cannot stress enough that they need to be on leash in bear country! Thank you for such and important video for us hikers!
So the dog killed the bear cub? I read this right? Damn that’s a vicious dog. What breed?
You need new friends or a horse. LOL Sorry I couldn't resist.
Having a unleashed dog in bear country can work in two ways. Either the dog chases a bear out of your path and prevents a confrontation or a dog riles up a bear that wouldn't of engaged you and then you have to put the bear down . I never leash up my dog in bear country because my house is in bear country . However I make noise as I walk and try not to let my dog go more than 30 yards ahead of me on hikes .
Papa, i doubt the dog killed the cub. More likely scenario was the bear was a male & he killed it & was about to or eating the cub when the dog showed up. Since female bears rarely bluff & you were bluffed TWICE I doubt it was the mother. Male bears kill female bears protecting their cubs all the time. Kill/ eat the cubs too. Real shame you didnt have the time/ resources to investigate the entire scene. 25 years w the AK F&G dept & ALL bears are cannibals & even a sow will eat her own dead cubs. Sometimes they kill their own wounded or weakest & eat them too. If i were you id sue that outfitter for criminal negligence & make sure he at least lost his license. Theres NO excuse for abandoning a man on foot like that. Especially an UNarmed one. On the backside of that coin, YOU should have been armed as well. Bears are always armed, people in bear country should be too.
Nah, I’m carrying a 🔫 in bear country. If you have a bear coming right towards you in a mad dash and angry then you run the risk of the bear spray not working right away. Remember the bear has a lot of adrenaline and the bear spray may not affect them right away. Just like a human who doesn’t feel pain right away because of the adrenaline. They usually feel pain once the attack is over and they are safe. Don’t get me wrong because I love bears. I’m just a realist. I remember being in a car wreck and injuring myself pretty badly. My head had hit the wind shield so hard that it cracked the windshield plus I needed stitches all over. I didn’t feel any pain and was up running around until I got to the hospital and passed out due to the pain.
Let me save 1hr. of your time.
The message is:
"Don't hurt the poor bear and trust the hot sauce spray with your life!"
Mr.C, Blunt but accurate. This was a vid of a guy whos trying with an idiot for a guest. Gotta love Utube. Best source of Misinformation around. The blind leading the blind.
This is a GREAT video on the subject of bears, guns and spray! I carry a side arm in the bush AND I carry spray! I have used my spray on dogs in the past…never had to use spray on a wild animal. Been over 20 years of experience. Always good to practice at home! Again, thank you both for this video!
The closest to using my bear spray has been on a ram and a moose. I have encountered many bears black and grizzly and it is mostly about knowing how to act. Bear spray /firearm are always a last resort.
same. i spent enough time down range. if i can avoid shooting something else in my life i'm all in.
Both! I’m ex-military and firmly believe in peace through deterrence (Bear spray) and when that fails bring overwhelming fire superiority (gun) to bare (pun intended).
Seriously though, great video for those who haven’t considered their defense on the trail. For those who lack firearm’s training, please don’t carry around a gun. An attack without warning isn’t when one finds out their defensive plan is more a sense of hope rather than a plan.
If carrying a gun, please practice. It’s darn near impossible to hit what you want to hit under stress, when the target is moving and without practice. Also consider the consequences of missing the bear in a group.
FULL DISCLAIMER: I’ve only had one Bear encounter within 50 feet and it was resolved without spray or bullets.
I have both. I carry a gun mostly for two-legged predators. A raging black bear or cougar is unlikely, but I feel better with protection. Shooting a grizzly with a handgun, even a rifle at close range is a dumb idea.
Why not air horn? Rei sells mini version of marine horns. Those super loud and will scare crap out of anything. Also marine handheld flare likely to be extremely effective for close encounters
@@user70331 a flare would be a horrible idea and probably illegal in California. We can only use butane stoves in the back country. An air horn is not a bad idea, as Bear spray is illegal in Sequoia NP. I go to remote places and often alone. I've had strange encounters with people more than anything. PC 12027 allows for concealed carry with a fishing license in the CA wilderness. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
@@user70331 read the instructions on those "bear horns"... They want you to sound them every 30minutes so scare them away. That is not my ideal backcountry experience. That said I do own one and would likely be great for an encounter with a black bear or mountain lion... It's typically not best to scare a grizzly when you are face to face with it.
agree with carrying lethal and non lethal. but the invincibility of bears vs pistols is a longstanding myth. ammoland has a fairly comprehensive and well done (verified, removed duplicates, tossed out tall tales) compilation of about 120 IRL bear shoots. even 9mm has been effective against brown bears. and i aint talking about clint eastwood well placed shots either. not saying i'd rely on 9mm. Just saying the IRL data doesn't support the "you need a big bore rifle or prepare to die" stuff everyone goes around saying.
@@user70331this kind of response tells me that *you* are uncomfortable with firearms and thus are uncomfortable with anyone else carrying one no matter their comfort level with firearms.
My college roommate says he carries a .22 pistol when hiking for bears. He says it is to shoot his buddy in the leg so he can outrun him. 🤣
🤣
😂😂😂😂
😂
I carry pepper spray and a firearm in town for self defense. These are both tools for different applications. The same goes for out in the back country: two tools with a different applications, different training and mindset considerations.
Where the heck do you live?
Great video Dan! This was very informative and answered a number of questions I had about the pros and cons of using both methods to deter bears. Thanks for putting this together!
Thanks for providing such interesting content. It is good to show all angles of being outdoors.
Very informative interview, Dan. Thanks!
Great interview. I like this format of interviewing knowledgeable guest speakers that relate to the outdoors.
Id love to see you do one on outdoor etiquette and LNT. I came across a campsite recently where a number of LNT was clearly not followed.
There are times that bear spray is not very effective. Bear sprays are considered a pesticide by the U.S. government and must be registered with the EPA. In doing so, the government requires that bear spray can contain no more than 1 - 2% O.C. ( oleoresin capsicum) which is a natural oil found in plants, including cayenne peppers and chillies, the ingredient that causes the burning sensation.
In comparison, pepper spray that might be used on 2-legged animals, can contain as much as 23% (or more) O.C. A much stronger deterrent. Next time you have a can of bear spray check the label. You will see no more than 2% O.C. and sometimes as little as 1% O.C. It is relatively weak compared to pepper spray. Pepper spray typically only sprays a short distance, usually 6-12 feet. Some go a little more, some a little less. Whereas bear spray typically sprays 25-30 feet and usually in a large fog. So, pepper spray's range is too short for bear. IMO. A brown bear can travel 12 feet in less than a second running at full charge.
Besides being relatively weak another problem with bear spray (as mentioned in video) is when it's windy, and especially if the wind is blowing directly at or even in the direction of the person using the bear spray. If the wind blows the spray at you it can end up burning the eyes and throat of the person trying to defend against the bear, which may temporarily disable the person.
That could make it very hard to open your eyes to see the bear and also to breathe. Not a very good thing to have happen if a dangerous bear is coming at you.
Bear spray is under pressure and can sometimes not work well at elevations over 7000 feet. Bear spray does seem to work against bears that are just curious or maybe only giving a false charge. Bear spray does not work as well against a bear that is guarding a kill, especially if you unknowingly get between the bear and it's food source, or if a mother bear feels that you're a threat to her cubs, even if you're not close to the cubs, or if you accidentally happen to surprise a bear. Especially if it's sleeping.
I know there are a lot of people that for whatever reason are not comfortable with firearms or maybe don't feel very proficient with one. If that's you and there's no way you see yourself carrying a firearm then absolutely carry bear spray. It won't always work in every situation, but it is better than not having anything. I have friends in Alaska. They don't bother with bear spray, saying they don't trust it. They prefer to carry a rifle, shotgun with slugs, or a large caliber handgun with heavy, hard-cast bullets. A good option in bear country would be to carry both a firearm and bear spray. Make sure you make noise when you hike, most bears will turn and leave when they hear people. Oh, and don't hike alone.
I will make a video comparing my sub 1 second draw to first shot time with a Glock vs the time it takes to draw a bear spray canister and then activate it and point it at the bear. I guarantee you someone who practices drawing their pistol will be much more effective than anyone with bear spray. Also with a pistol you have an increased effective range over the bear spray. This is crucial because you can begin firing at a farther distance and that buys you time. I’m not anti bear spray but if I have a choice it’s a pistol every time
Yes.
Yup
Let the hippies use their bear spray. Bears like Buffalo wings hikers. 😂
Crack me up! Show all your vids in a controlled setting. 99% of people will fail when SHTF. PS - Whete's your video, Ted.
I like these types of videos and appreciate you interviewing experts in their respective field. Keep it up Dan!
Excellent video. Best middle of the road, factual video without being hard on one side versus the other. Well done.
John Phillips, Not hardly. No coverage of Bear spray failures. Bunnyhugger biased.
Great discussion! Thank you for the education.
Dan, thank you for this video and for sharing this information. This is so important, especially here in Canada, where in our National Parks, we are not allowed to carry firearms, let alone discharge them. This is crucial information. Thank you so much!
I recently listened to an interview with a guide that was attacked by a grizzly, this man lives in Grizzly country and guides elk hunters in grizzly country. He has trained and created video on bear spray deployment. The video is used to show clients how to use bear spray. To say this man was very familiar with bear spray is an understatement. He was unable to deploy the bear spray when he was attacked. Fortunately his friend another guide used his bear spray to get the bear off of him which also blinded the guide being attacked and ended up in the eyes of the guide that deployed the bear spray. The original guide did eventually deploy his own bear spray, unfortunately he couldn't see and deployed it into his own face.The can was backwards. In this case I think a 10mm glock in a chest holster would have worked better.
He chose not to, noting to do with not being able to. He saw the cub and didn’t take out his bear spray even thought he new better. His partner did take his out and used it. Maybe go back and rewatch the interview so you are not passing on misinformation.
@nsrvtqc watched the interview again and he didn't not choose, he was unable to. You might be thinking of a different incident.
This post would certainly make better sense if you posted a link to what you are referring to.
William, i saw that video. Laughed all the way through it. Just more proof of how USELESS spray really is. Granted, there are times when spray does work, like when its only a curious bear & shot up the nose from 2 inches away. But in that case, neither of thoes morons did ANYTHING right.
Great conversation and information.
This was a very informative video. It reminds of a old Boy Scout saying..
BE PREPARE. I'll be planing to see his video. Thanks.
Great discussion. Thanks@
A friend of mine who had been backpacking for over 50 years never went into the backcountry without a firearm and he would say “it’s not the four footed creatures I’m wary of; it’s the two footed ones.” He carried bear spray for the four footed ones. 😂
only once have i ever had to worry about two footed ones. glad there was a firearm present because they had one two. thank God they were not willing to go down that road.
@@josephseebart8488 only takes once. its a good thing you had it when needed.
What two footed ones
People
@@maximusjoseppi5904 yeah that's why I live by the quote. "Stay strapped or get clapped" - the Sandelorian
I've had 5 bear encounters in my life time. all 5 times a firearm was present (mine or a person with me). of these 5 encounters never a shot fired and no one was ever attacked. 2 of the encounters had the bear within 4 feet before it turned away. of those 5 encounters bear spray was never present. i will add that during 3 of these encounters a firearm was drawn on the bear (2 times from a holster and once was a rifle).
cost of practicing with a firearm dry fire is free, .20 to 50 cents a round for live fire. . aim small miss small.
You need a wheelbarrow to carry those giant nuts if you let a bear get that close lol
@@Kypreparedness lol! It was never on purpose. When they stand up and start walking towards you, you don't have a lot of options. The first time there was a cliff behind us we had no choice but to stand our ground. The second time was a cub that ran into our camp and almost bumped into me. As soon as he saw us he turned and ran we never saw mom but we heard her breathing.
@@josephseebart8488, Stand up & walk toward you? On what planet?? They only stand up to assess the situation. Then they drop & charge.
@@josephseebart8488, You need to quit Smoking dope, your wild imagination is out of control.
Great interview! Thanks!
You need both.
Living in Areas with animals like this my whole entire life, hunted in Montana lived in North Idaho and Northern Washington, up by Canadian line in the rockies, my whole life, with cougars, grizzly, and black bears
you 100% need both.
Not only for the preservation of your own life, but for the Wildlife as well.
Every situation is different, therefore you need different tools for those situations.
You (should always have a gun) absolutely,
but there's many situations you don't need to use it, you can use your spray instead saveing both you and the animal, if it's windy out don't pull the spray I mean come on.
With that said, if enough too curious of
Bears gets sprayed by people, they will learn to stay away from them from fear.
If you only have a split second to react then pull your gun, if you have a moment to deploy some spray to deter the animal to go away, then do it,
it's not that complicated.
You will be able to tell in the moment what you should deploy, if it happens to be your gun then so be it.
Thanks for the interview Dan and Mike. Very interesting and informative. I have a question for Mille that is off topic: at the very end you comment that much of our food comes from these places but we don’t know it. Can you elaborate on that? Do you mean there is a lot of food broadcasting coming from the back country? I’m asking as someone definitely falls into the “doesn’t know it” category. Thanks.
Crazy amount of quality info here!
Noobhiker. Key word is CRAZY & info is an oxymoron.
I think it depends on the person but if you want to use spray i highly suggest going out on a light wind day with a can of spray and see how well it actually functions (obviously do this in a secluded area). Ditto for someone who carries a gun use it and use it regularly or it can be more harm then good.
Great video. Didnt know that there is training cans available for purchase. Gotta look into that.
How many people practice shooting at an 800 lb ball of fur and teeth charging them at 30 mph? I’m a gun owner and practice regularly. Gun for two legged predators bear spray for the four legged.
How often do you practice shooting at a 2 legged predator attacking you. By your standards it would be dumb to own a gun because you don't practice against humans. Or saying its pointless because if 5 people break in to your home with guns you'll have a hard time defending against that.. at least you can try is the point. in polar bear territory they don't carry bear spray because once a bear decides to attack and eat you its going to.
theres no difference in practicing to shoot a threat with 2 legs or 4 legs... you practice your draw, muscle memory, malfunction clearing, marksmanship, reaction time.... it doesnt matter what threat is on the other end aside from what caliber you are training with.
Weird logic. Do you hunt people?
2 legged? 😂😂😂 chickens??
@@destroystreets1023
Hi Dan, great video. It's a complicated discussion for sure. People have a tendency to lump all bears together but there's a big difference between brown bears/grizzly bears vs. smaller and more common black bears. I carry both for various reasons. But for me, the most important thing is being "bear aware" and being on guard. I really enjoyed this vid.
I have always packed a gun living in Idaho where we have black bears and grizzlies. I have never had a problem with bears being aggressive even though I’ve met them on the trail. It seems like the mountain goats are more of a problem around camp. Don’t pee around your tent because the goats are after the salt and will knock your tent over.
Great video with accurate information 👍🏼
Excellent job of interviewing Dan. Thanks.
I live in the mountains of vermont. We have lots of black bears. I hike and camp deep in the backcountry very often! From my experience they tend to stay away from us. I have firearms experience and do carry almost daily. Me personally when im out hiking, camping or fishing i carry a .357 and bear spray! I do not want to shoot a bear. But i will protect my dog and myself! My dog is very good and is very alert! More than once shes froze and turned around! I trust her nose and instincts! All this said, 100’s of miles hiked and dozens of camping trips and not once have i had a bear encounter. I have had however had bears in my backyard! More than once! I often see them back by the river which is a few hundred yards away. Simply do what you feel comfortable with. But! Get the proper training! And be proficient!
no need for backcountry. we have a well documented black bear problem in normal suburban residential areas here in CT. it's all over the print and online mainstream mediaand youtube is full of videos of them coming in to homes and going straight to refrigerators (they are not dumb). we carry at least bear spray to do yard chores, take out the trash etc. the cubs and sows are usually sub 300lbs so i'm fairly comfortable a .45 will do it (which is my EDC) but if I'm workign with noisy yard tools i'll usually carry a 10 longslide figuring i'll have less time to react and better not be wrong about the caliber.
anyway, its not a good scene. a child is gonna get hurt it's only a matter of time. even our lefty governor tried to do a very thoughtful hunt (you had to have credentials, demonstrate how you were gonna use every part of the bear etc...Alaska moose kill type stuff) but the PETA types still shut it down. We have probably 1,000 documented residential encounters a year and way more than that where ppl don't bother reporting (fyi they do not actually sleep all winter any multi day stretch of high 30's low 40's temps and they're out for food....the PETA ppl can cite their books all they want I have many seasons of date stamped security video), one to three human nips (not full bites I'm aware of yet) and half dozen or so dogs killed. this season's cubs are getting mature now (mid April) so the sows are less protective/less dangerous. but it'll all repeat again next year. wish i could post video in a comment (i refuse to maintain a channel). lots of home security vid of one particular sleuth coming around this year.
Adventuresw Piper. Black bears are natural maneaters. Its their size that determines their ferocity. Once theyre as tall as you standing your on the menu if theyre hungry enough.
Bear spray? Yeah that gonna be a hard no for me . I'll carry a 10mm on hip and a 500 mag on chest. Then maybe some.bear spray also , but rely on only spray? absolutely not
Tell that to the person getting eaten alive by the hungry angry bear they just sprayed...!
Great video - I have carried both a 10mm with Underwood penetrators, and spray for years. Every situation requires thought about which is appropriate. Strong wind in your face, spray is far more limited. In your tent at night, spray is likely worthless, but in most other situations I'd go to the spray first. Practice extensively with both, and you better have thought about varying situations beforehand. A charging bear presents a poor time for flip flopping between options.
BOTH!
I usually carry both. But when you are in a bear situation, it’s hard to think and a stick might be the weapon of choice. Bear situations can happen fast and having multiple choices is always the best choice.
Get a gun people ! Biggest gun you can shoot accurately .
I’ll always have a 10mm no question
I'm glad this guy warmed up to the interview, in the beginning, I almost turned it off. EXCELLENT info and interview. I hope people going into the backcountry take time to watch this one.
Me and my partner always carry bear spray each, she also carries a little fog horn because it makes her feel better. Just wondering if those bear scare/bear banger are effective at all?
I worked as a Wilderness Patrol Ranger in one of the expansive National Parks in Alaska.
There is no other wilderness in the US like that found in Alaska!
You are probably way more prone to die by falling in cold water, getting lost, or getting trampled by a Moose, than by a bear attack.
I recall that only one person in the history of the park where I worked had been killed by a bear, and the evidence showed that the person that was killed got too close to a bear while taking photographs. Photos of the bear were found on the victims recovered camera.
The Rangers who recovered the body, remarked that pretty much only his feet in his boots were left, after the bear had killed and consumed him. When the Rangers came upon the kill site, they were charged by the bear which they killed with a shotgun slug!
It was common, (meaning every day), for me to see, or to encounter a Black Bear, even in the inhabited areas around the residences, campgrounds, and our Ranger HQ. Encounters with Grizzly a/k/a Brown Bears were less common, but still occurred.
I have actually seen a black bear galloping down a trail that was paralell to mine, and when I got to the end of the trail the bear was standing there, just hanging out. I was just a few feet away from the bear and said "Hey Bear" and the bear bolted like he was hit by lightning!
FYI...Alaska also has Kodiak Bears, which are a larger subspecies of Brown Bears, but only found on Kodiak Island.
By the way, I was lucky enought to see a "Glacier Bear" on one patrol. Go look that one up!
It is clear to me, that most Bears have a fear of humans, a dislike of humans, or they just don't want to be around humans for other reasons, maybe instinctive reasons! Some bears approach humans beacuse I believe that they are curious.
I was sometimes assigned to patrol certain areas alone, which many times meant hiking for miles along a rocky coastal area, with lots of high vegetation, around six to seven feet high.
Obviously, in those situatiuons I would hike along the shore line to avoid bushwhacking.
Once in a while I would jump up on some of the big rocks that I encountered, and yell out "Hey Bear."
Many times I would see a Black Bear pop up from the vegetation, and the bear would just harmlessly wander off into the nearby forest.
I never had a bear act aggresively toward me on these patrols.
Many times I would patrol together with other Rangers traveling about ten miles each day by Kayak, or somtimes hiking each day, over a seven to eight day period of time, while out among the three Million wilderness acres of our park.
Each night we would stop and set up our tents, eat our supper, and then go to sleep.
I always slept with at least two canisters of bear spray, a firearm, and a knife, but never had to use any of them.
Important to note that we cooked in one area, ate in another area, and slept in another area. All of our food, and things like toothpaste were kept in bear canisters.
Once in a while we would hear a bear rooting around in our camp at night, but we would just roll over and go back to sleep, and we were never bothered by any bears.
All Rangers in Alaska attend bear safety training, and they must actually learn how to expel spray from several inert bear spray canisters so that each Ranger has complete familiarity with using bear spray.
This is not a dig, just an observation, but It seems that this guy Becker has no experience in using Bear Spray, and I notice that he mentions the lack of bears where he lives in Wisconsin. It appears that based upon the affiliate links he has placed in the video description, Becker is trying to sell you Bear Spray.
I did not catch what the experience level of the "expert" was, but again, he lives in Utah, so not really a bear hot bed.
Be leery of anecdotal advice from those with minimal or no contact with bears, or those trying to sell you something. Listen to those who have, or have had regular contact with bears.
My advice...Be very careful of surprise encounters with Grizzly Bears feeding on carcasses, or sow Grizzlies with cubs!
If you are in Bear Country, I recommend that you carry at least on large canister of bear spray on a chest rig, that you can access very quickly. I also recommend carrying a back up canister of bear spray on your hip. UDAP or Counter Assault are good brands.
The National Park Service, and all of their biologists recommend using bear spray as a primary defense to any bear attack. Statistics show that bear spray works, but according to recent reports a couple was killed by a bear despite emptying two canisters of bear spray. Of course it seems that a dog was part of the mix, so maybe an important factor to consider.
I have accidentally inhaled bear spray, and it will immediately choke you up, so the effect on a bear with a super sensitive nose, and eyes being purposefully hit with a huge cloud of Bear Spray must be incredibly toxic and disorienting, so no wonder that it works well!
If you are going to travel in Bear Country with a dog, I recommend that you bring a Karelian Bear Dog, or perhaps a Rhodesian Ridgeback, known for being used to hunt Lions in Africa, or maybe a Malamute, Akita, or Siberian Husky. In fact two or three may be better than one. Karelians are still used in Finland for Bear Control. The dogs should be under your control.
There is no definitive study on Dogs and Bears that I am aware of, but it is possible that dogs may trigger a bear somehow, but my thoughts would be that a bear would want to get away from a dog, especially the type of dogs that I mentioned. Wolves are dogs, and Grizzlies will flee, or at a minimum try to move away from a wolfpack. Sow Grizzlies may become aggresive if they feel that their cubs are threatended by a dog. This is an educated guess.
I would also recommend carrying at least a 9mm firearm, and a 10 mm, a .45 caliber, or a shotgun with slugs would be even better. A visitor to a park in Alaska that was hiking with his girlfriend killed a Grizzly Bear that he claimed was charging him. He shot the Grizzly multiple times with a .45 caliber firearm, but was not charged, as use of a firearm in National Park to kill a bear is allowed to protect life or property.
Of course Rule No. 9 mandates that you never go anywhere without a knife!
Good Luck!
Bro, BLALABLA! Get to the fn point! Not reading all that. Holy hell!
Thanks for this essay. 👍 Ignore the trolls!
Thanks for the helpful comment. I think both is the answer.
You had my support until the gun recommendations...f*** guns. 🖕🏽
@@donkEEpunch85 Wat a twit. You missed a lot of info.. Cliff Notes will kill idiots
Fantastic conversation, best episode yet. My local hiking & backpacking area is the Canadian Rockies, we have both back bears & grizzlies. Unless out hunting, no one carries firearms here. Have had 2 encounters with black bears where I had my bear spray ready and didn’t have to deploy it. Thankfully all my grizzly sightings have been at a good distance. Appreciate the main message was about assessing and mitigating risk, a person who doesn’t know how to use the deterrent tool isn’t mitigating the risk as an example.
you'd have to be insane to go out into the Canadian Rockies without a Firearm.
@@06XTOR guess I am and know a lot of insane people then.
Thanks! Mister Becker, I'm A guy that was raised In the city and I would like to start going outdoors and bring my son with me. He is now one years old. And I'm 53 and I'm a little scared. And I would like to go alone as well and enjoy the woods.I have such a deep love for Camping? But looking at your videos you've made all the difference thank you
I have asthma and although it’s controlled with meds, I wouldn’t ever want to risk exposing myself to mace. I’m less worried about four legged animals, I’m worried about the bipeds. Plus, bear spray won’t go through a car window or car door, but a pew-pew will; I car camp a lot and even though I lock my doors at night, I’m prepared for an attempted break-in while I sleep in my car.
Great video. I like respectful conversations like this. I am more towards carrying a gun, but your guest does make some valid points. I live on Vancouver Island, and we only have black bears. I found by making some noise is all you need to do. I think it's up to the individual to decide. You just better know how to use it, gun or spray.
Spray yer hand and offer a handshake to the charging bear.
I carry both
I carry both at all times hiking or backpacking. My wife will carry bear spray when she’s with me. I wear a chest rig from 5.11. Which enables concealed carry and easily accessible
Something to remember with bear spray, the most likely encounter you'll have with a bear, is when the wind is blowing from the direction you're traveling, aka downwind(at your face)because if the wind is at your back, upwind, the bear already knows your there, and you're less likely to have an encounter as they generally avoid people. That also means bear spray will end up in your face, if you deploy downwind in an encounter. Carry both, and hopefully you won't need to use either.
I have lived in Montana my entire life. I hunt, fish, camp, hike, backback... I carry both. You definitely should if you safely can in my opinion. If a firearm is out of the question for one reason or another. I have seen people with a small Air Horn and Bear spray. Not a bad idea in high bear areas I dont think. Always wear your seatbelt!
Most individuals underestimate the Grizzly's ability to close distance in a hurry. I've seen people here in Banff National Park get out of the car, walk 100 ft to the train tracks looking for The Boss/Split Lip. Both of which could be hiding in the forest 20 ft away from the tracks. Good luck making it back to the car if they decide to make you a meal.
56:00 Very a powerful and insightful message. There has been a surge in popularity in the outdoors. While its kind of annoying to have to share with so many now. Its critical we accept and teach those that are learning to enjoy the outdoors.
Couldn’t agree more.
Me and my friends came to this same conclusion years ago.
Both are necessary for true safety.
We added on more piece though.
If the spray fails the shooter takes a knee so he’s not shooting down towards his buddy.
With this strategy it’s almost impossible to be killed by a bear. Injured yes, but not killed.
A group of trained shooters with bear spray and guns.
However, I’ll admit to occasionally hiking solo in bear country.
I carry a handgun, bear spray and one cigarette. The cigarette is either for me or the bear after the event has ended.
You’re gonna have sex with the bear?
Bear incidents are pretty rare. It’s people that I’m worried about.
I'm Canadian and a backpacker, and I've only ever backpacked in black bear country. I've never encountered a bear that I've seen. I travel solo in the backcountry. I'm obsessive about not having food or anything scented stuff in camp unless I'm actively cooking or eating it. Otherwise it's up in a tree half km downwind of camp. Since I'm Canadian and could be considered a city girl, a gun as a bear deterrent has never and would never cross my mind. I am considering bear spray though and so far this video is encouraging me to pick some up for my next trip. Maybe I'm a little bit hippy or whatever, but something seems wrong to me about killing / shooting a bear while I'm encroaching their territory purely for recreation, so I wouldn't judge someone who has little choice in sharing their territory with bears. @Danbecker, I love your channel!
I'm an Australian who has seen a lot bears in Canada when I rode a motor cycle across the country. They are there and run with the encounters I had or ignored me. I know this may be different for others.
This is a good conversation.
What about an air horn as the first step… they are incredibly loud! A bear would not be likely to have ever encountered anything like it.
Would like to see an answer to this
I think the biggest problem with bear spray is how subject it is to wind. Anyone who has spent time in the mountains will tell you that a perfectly calm day almost never happens.
Bro the eyes in the thumbnails drive me away from these videos 😂
Good topic. Made me think. I am riding off road and camping across America shortly and there were some salutary lessons for me in this video. I live in New Zealand where the only hostile wildlife is a spider that can make you ill. Also no guns here. Previously I have motorcycled through the Rockies carrying bear spray that I did not know how to use and still had its plastic wrapper on after 10 weeks of travel. I also spent 20 years flying in the RAF where my personal weapon was a 9mm pistol and every year I demonstrated on the range I could not hit anything. So I feel unprepared and nervous. But that is an advantage because I am seeking out information and will definitely be looking up "At home in wild space". Forewarned is forearmed as they say!
I've ridden off-road across America and Canada. The bears all ran from the bike.
Also there was a study of self defense handgun use against bears of something like 100 instances where someone used a handgun and the results of said use. Failure to stop the attack for whatever reason was very low, under 5%, this included everything from 22lr to 44mag+. These were not specially trained people, just your everyday outdoor people who had a gun and the time available to use it.
Does loud noise like a can of the noise, about the same size of bear spray, work?
One of the advantages of bear spray is that it can be deployed while the threat level is still low. You can use it on a bear that is near but hasn't yet acted aggressive, kind of helping an honest bear stay honest. Unless you're bear hunting, shooting a bear that isn't actually charging you won't be a lawful option.
As far as dogs are concerned, what dogs can do to endanger you if you're not actually hunting is exactly the same behavior that makes them a great help for hunters.
Both.
Excellent video! True story, a field biologist with group of three surprised a Grizz while doing plant counts. Bear bluff charged, then stopped and turned, BUT the biologist had pulled the clip on his bear spray and dropped it. When he bent over to pick up the clip the grizzly full charged and he unloaded his full spray on the bear. Luckily it stopped and ran off. I'll be mountain biking the Great Divide route again this summer and the bear spray is right on the handlebars, plus riding in Grizz country I'll ride with two or three friends. Thanks for video.
To settle the debate once and for all the answer is............. BOTH
Look, I carry a gun over pepper spray for one simple reason: I'm severely asthmatic. Pepper spray is far more likely to screw me over than the bear. I practice, I carry a 45 long colt revolver with extreme penetrator underwood ammunition, and I stay alert in the woods. Thats my two cents, not saying its great for everyone just that pepper spray is not the answer for me.
its not really a debate among educated people... theres a time and situation for both. a gun is a much for versatile tool but it requires way more skill and knowledge to use properly and effectively. bear spay is something anyone can use regardless of physical ability, knowledge, training, skill, expertise but wont be as effective in all situations. a gun chambered for bear defense is not something most people will be able to effectively use, however, if they can it is far more effective in any condition. a gun is also better because it can be used for hunting and 2 legged predator defense.
I carry both.
If you're in the backcountry, more than likely your pack will interfere with how you typically carry. A chest rig is a must IMHO if you are plan to carry in the backcountry. The next thing is practicing with said check rig. Don't care how much training you have with a different holster location, you need to train with the new holster and it's location. Bear Spray is my first option 99% of the time. But again, if you are carrying bear spray and have it in your pack of somewhere that isn't easily accessible in a high stress environment, you may not have the time to use it.
I carry a Glock 40 (10mm), with Buffalo Bore 220gr hard cast led, in a Kenai Chest holster. I love it.
Sweet set up! I’ve been looking at that same chest holster for awhile. Right now I have a holster I put molle clips on and attached it to my Eberlestock bino harness
Before watching this video, my thought has always been that bear spray would be better except if there's wind ...and the simple fact that your safety is dependent on wind direction is enough for me to not trust bear spray
The mountains are ALWAYS windy...lol I live in the mountains. Bottom line, carry both. Having a gun can and will save your life.
This is very interesting informative, discussion. What is funny, in a sad way, is the number of people who think they know what they would/could do in a high stress, life or death situation, where the decision making time is a split second. There is a reason the military trains incessantly, so that in a high stress situation soldiers instinctively rely on their training. The vast majority of gun owners do not have access to that training
I started hunting because I felt bear spray wasn't enough while I was out by myself in some remote country. it feel confident having a nice trad bow (the most UL hunting imo) and bear spray
I have been seeing those bear horns at the store lately. Anyone have any experience with those?
If you don't practice with any defensive tool you might as well not bring it. Situational awareness is just as important as a firearm or bear spray.
I’m going to ask this question, I being from southern Illinois where I only have mountain lions and coyotes to worry about and just clicking your safety will send them scattering; If I were hiking in bear country, would it be worth carrying a rifle, or is that overkill or not allowed?
Is there a chart someplace that shows a comparison of sprays, ie range, concentration, effectiveness against certain species, etc? I'd think that the dog is HIGHLY dependent on species and training. For example, a German Shepard that's trained for defense, guarding, and attacking (or as a seeing eye dog for the blind who are trained to never leave their disabled person under any condition unless commanded to do so by said person.) would be a much better ally than a beagle that's been trained as a hunting dog to alert and chase game but not to attack.
A Ruger Redhawk revolver chambered in 45 Colt, with Underwood Ammo's 250 grain Xtreme Penetrator rounds. It is a six shot revolver (Revolvers do not fail to extract or fail to feed, and they will still work if and when pressed into a bears ribs) which is plenty of ammo to get the job done. The 45 Colt also has light recoil for easy follow-up shots. Go to one knee and shot for the bear's brain.
Bear spray is only good for curious bears, not ones that are in full attack mode. There are too many things that have to align in one's favor for bear spray to work on their behalf, of which practice could never make up for if things are not lined up in their favor.
I would get the pistol at ready first, and then if there is time to opt for bear spray I would do so. But the pistol would always be the first line of defense against a bear.
I love the way this guy says.... " the internet's an over abundance of information" think ?? LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL... gawd sooooooo true
54:10 - 54:19 This is true. Especially because we drive our cars on a daily basis.
To make a better comparison we need to have experience shared by someone encountering bears on a daily basis. Then, in my opinion, the outcome would be much different than encountering bears about 10 times/ a year.
No disrespect meant to anyone, just sharing my views on the topic.
Finally, a logical discussion of this topic. They are tools! Not one tool will work in all situations. There are catastrophic examples of failures of both of these tools and you have to make the call on what is the best balance of protection versus risk and make your choice.
Superb video
I’m surprised there’s no mention of things like bear bells to make noise so you don’t accidentally sneak up on a bear.
I have an experience with bear spray that I never see discussed. My wife and I planned a packrafting trip in the Bob Marshall Wilderness..an area with a high concentration of Grizzly. I was raised with firearms and proficient, she was not. After a great deal of discussion she chose to carry bear spray and I brought a 10mm pistol I was proficient with. The undiscussed spray issue is this: We purchased TWO cans of bear spray..one to practice and one to carry on the trip. For the practice, we stopped, had her put the spray on her belt, I t was late twilight and there was ZERO WIND. We simulated a bear attack, she pulled the can and
sprayed for about one second. All was well..we turned to walk back to the car and we both started having trouble breathing and seeing. The point is that if you utilize bear spray with ANY headwind you are going to incapacitate yourself. Not a position I want to put myself in with a charging bear. That said, I do think bear spray is better than nothing, but proficiency with a high powered firearm is superior for the reason stated above.
This also food for thought for the “spray first shoot if it doesn’t work crowd” if you spray first you may not have the option to shoot second.
i like the idea of packing both, thank god I've never been attached so maybe i have no opinion on this but having both just give more options in whats going to be a very dynamic event
living and being outdoors in the western states ive come across black bears a few time and mountain lions a few times... the cats scare me so much more than the bears... the bears typically just run away from you (black bears not browns) and ive hunted black bears... they are not hard to kill, they may be tough but they are thin skinned and easy to take out
cats... the mountain lions are more sneaky and even more quiet when they move, they also attach from an ambush situation ... so heres a question, will bear spray work just as well against a lion? ... all things being equal i would rather face a bear vs a lion but either way a real charge is coming much faster than i think i would even be ready for so its not gonna be a fun time and i hope i have extra pants
The "expert" caries a semi-auto WITHOUT A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER. That's enough to disqualify him as a firearm expert. It also makes the firearm useless unless it's racked wasting time when it's an emergency.
When I hike in a pair, I carry the gun and my partner carries the spray. Training is critical, and if I'm with someone who has trained more with a sidearm than I have, I will gladly be the sprayer.
Also--helps to hike with people who are slower or more delicious than you are. 😁
I carry a 6'7" Spartan type of spear & hair spay in grizzly country.
Hair spray ! ha.. i bet that would work