I started my guiding career for James Gary Shelton in 1989. Gary he was against the use of bear spray for self defense on a bear. He always said that too many things had to be in your favor for bear spray to work. He favored a large caliber rifle or Handgun if you could handle one over bear spray. He wrote a few books on bear attacks.
I hunted in areas with high black bear populations, but they did not overly concern me. I hunted areas with high grizzly bear populations and that seriously got my attention. I always carried a Ruger SS in .45 Colt with 300gr Nosler partitions. Pepper spray is like giving someone a bottle of hot sauce to go with their chicken dinner!
@ralphgreenjr.2466 The hiss, or strangeness from a human spraying bear spray is enough to stop a bluff charge. Many experienced guides claim most charges are bluffs, so it stands to reason that people who spray during a bluff charge became overly confident in their spray. A serious bear will plow through any spray, and all people should know that.
I've spent much of my life here in Wyoming, much of it in NW Wyoming in mixed bear country. If you have time to try a non lethal methods in hopes of a bluff charge, people will read about you. We have high winds..persistent bears and terrain that doesn't allow for much advance time. I dint recommend bear spray in the western mountains. If you want to try that in the Ozarks or Blue Mountains around deer camp, you may be fine.
Bears behave very differently in different areas. Bears in Nome tend to run at the sight of a gun. Just outside of Nome, you better be packing. In Anchorage, the bears have no fear of man at all.
I've been charged by both grizzlies and black bears here in NW Wyoming. When they charge, you never think about what species is coming at you at that moment. I thankfully survived both attacks, ending in one bear demise via a bow and 5 yard shot. Do NOT underestimate black bears, please, when they attack, they have every intention of killing you. Claws and teeth are claws and teeth.
I agree, don't underestimate black bears, my father's friend was attacked and killed east of Great Slave Lake NWT, he went outside his fishing cabin after midnight to pee, bear jumped him he died. That was around 2006. In 2014 I was working at Suncor base plant Ft. Mcmurray Canada when a 37 year old lady was stalked and killed by a black bear in spring.
Hey Ron, what about a good dog or two. On the trail they are the best ground seeking radar against being surprised by a bear either at home or in the wild and they can be trained to not make noise unless you're at risk.
Hey, we're neighbors. I don't underestimate black bears but I know that they are far more prone to run away. They are also much easier to intimidate with aggressive behavior, but I found some HUGE black bear tracks down on South Fork one time that I wouldn't care to find out if he ran or not. That guy had to be 500lbs if he was an ounce and he didn't seem to be too intimidated by all the grizzly tracks that were around.
5" 454. Casull in a chest rig. The largest back up gun I can shoot well at 50 yrds. I carry bear spray, just so I can articulate that I had it with me.
@@eriklarson9137, Ya, bullshit. Last summer a friend emptied his 500 into a charging griz. Last shot at 2 feet hit the bears spine & dropped it. Its momentum knocked him off his feet & he went flying. Entire cylinder emptied into the bears body, His friends shot it in the face finally killing it w their 10mms. Now he carries a 10 too. Says a gun he can control beats one he cant. Hot bear slugs in both. Most folks just dont understand bears. Even with their hearts & lungs shot clean out they can still keep going on rage adrenalin & muscle memory long enough to still kill you. Bears brain is behind its FACE. The " magic triangle. Across the eyes down to its nose is a guaranteed brain shot. We had a F&G officer who only carried a 40 S&W his entire career. No specialty bear slugs back then. Only had regular FMJs. He shot several attacking bears in the FACE up close & retired unscathed. Laughed at the big bore guys. Said hed never seen any bear attack anybody by running at th
@@eriklarson9137, Oops, hit send too early. He said hed never seen any bear attack anyone by running at them backwards & he waited until they were too close to miss & face shot em. Never needed more than 1 shot. Course, he did get knocked over a few times from the bears momentum but never mauled. In the FACE or at the bottom of the ear sideways is a positive brain hit & instantly fatal. Some lil native girl in Canada killed a HUGE record griz w only a single shot 22 long. In the eye. Not an L.R. but a simple long. Basically, a 22 short in a long case. Our bushlady friend killed a ton of bears with her single shot, short bbl 22 L.R. rifle. In the eye, up the nose or under the ear sideways. Said she shot em the moment they looked at her. Never gave em a chance to attack her. Course, she could snap shoot a running squirrel in the head at 50 yards too. She died peacefully in an old folks home in her bed, smiling. Christian woman.
I think one reason for the inflated success rate for bear spray may be that the spray is often used on bears that are simply near but haven't acted aggressive yet. A successful hazing of an uncommitted bear gets counted as a successful defense against an attack. Guns usually won't be used until the bear actually charges. I see a reason for carrying both spray (or a BYRNA) and a gun. Kind of a version of using spray as a first result and a gun as backup, but with a difference: Use spray to "keep an honest bear honest" that is, a bear that is near but not yet aggressive. Use the gun on a bear that is actually charging.
Never been attacked have you. You MIGHT have 2-5 seconds to respond. Spray NEVER works in a real attack & only pisses a bluffing bear off more into a full attack. Anymore goofy questions?
@@tristantimothy1004 Chill dude. Bear spray has been proven effective for nuisance bears, good caliber firearms for bear attacks. That is what he wrote and what I agreed with. And, yes, I have been attacked by a bear and used environment for cover. I was too young to have had either firearm or spray but not too young to jump under a car and then onto a trailer boat and barricade myself. Residential black bear attacks are common in Florida. Were I to go to brown bear country, or in the woods with large black bear populations, I would carry no less than a .357 with hot ammo and bear spray to deter those wandering into camp.
Black bear droppings are smaller and often contain berries, leaves, and possibly bits of fur. Brown bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper.
NGL you should really consider upping to a 180gr Barnes TTSX or something similar. I have used the corelokts for decades, and they do work, but I have had MANY instances of bullets just not exiting animals, and have pulled many from animals that were in the 120-130gr(ish) area for retained weight. Ultimately they are not ideal for bigger animals IE moose elk, big bears ect Going to an all copper Barnes or similar you have 99% weight retention meaning you can even go to a 150-165gr load and have more velocity, more expansion, deeper penetration, and actually still have more weight vs 180 corelokts because they arent breaking up and shedding it. Just something to consider I switched to the Barnes TTSX and now LRX years ago and they are just simply better in every way. If you're only shooting 100yds with perfect broadside shots you're fine I guess but especially when you need to take a 2-3-400yd poke, it really starts to matter. Also much better option for bear defence as far as this topic goes lol the much better penetration and expansion of the Barnes FAR surpassed the Corekokt and the retained weight plays a big part in that as well But the bullet exiting the animal is just huge. Even with a perfect shot a big animal can run 100yds, and if you don't have 2 holes pumping out blood, tracking them can be extremely difficult and depending on terrain and environmental factors it's very easy to lose an animal even if the shot was perfect if they just aren't 🩸 enough or the bed down and get that single hole plugged up with mud and debris. And if heaven forbid the shot isnt perfect, a better performing bullet pays HUGE dividends and gives that little extra wiggle room for success, or at very least gives ya far more blood to follow as they can't easily plug TWO holes by bedding down.
When i hear stories about bears, i always think about Patrick McManus's story " The Bear that Ate Gomba". Check spelling on that. Hilarious. Really miss the old writers from the magazines of my youth. Only a few are still active, and electronic media has relpaced magazines. Thanks Ron for staying in the business, been reading your stuff for years, watching your web stuff for half a decade or so.
The dog and moose story was priceless ! lol You gave us lots to think about when it comes to bears. A neighbor once told me that while hunting deer he came down off a mountain and stepped out onto a logging road. He spotted a black bear about 70/80 yards up the road. It saw him to and charged right at him immediately . He emptied his .30-06 on it as it charged and it fell about 5 feet in front of him . Close call . That story has always stayed with me when I am out in the woods. Excellent podcast.
I was hiking on Afognak island and my feet were getting sore and wet from recent rain. The sun had just came out so I found a rocky beach and took off my boots and socks to air out. All my stuff was scattered everywhere. It felt good to be in the sunshine and dry out. I heard a noise and watched in astonishment as a large sow with two cubs came down to the beach with intention of walking past me 15 yds away along the water. I really could not walk well on the sharp rocks with my tender feet and I didn't want her to get into my lunch so I just started yelling and grabbed my pistol. I could tell she was getting nervous because her cubs just wanted to run up to me and play. She just waited there for her cubs to turn around and swaying her head. I kept yelling until finally they did and mom took them back the way they came. It was a very stressful situation! I put on my boots and got the heck out of there!
Bear spray is basically heck off spray. If you have a curious bear or nuisance bear it is very good at getting them to heck off. It you have a bear that is already acting defensively it's effectiveness is almost certainly going to drop off. Bear spray may even be pretty good for predatory attacks, the bear is stalking you and looking for a meal pain can be a pretty good deterrent for them to choose to get a meal somewhere else. Most actual attacks are defensive tho and this means the bear feels threatened and that it has to defend itself, it may decide it has to disregard the pain in its face incapacitate you.
I use my GAU-8/A 30x173mm with a 3,700 grain AP projectile traveling around ~3,500 FPS. It produces just over 100,000 ft/lbs of energy. Just enough to make a complete pass through on any bear. Recoil can be a bit much, but the weapon system is over 600lbs. So, it is manageable. Some may think that a 600lbs rifle is too heavy to hunt in the mountains with. However, I train by carrying the weight of my poor decisions. Over time, this makes the weapon feel about 8.5-9lbs. Perfect for a mountain rifle.
Back in the 90's a Flying Service I worked for in Fairbanks AK flew two California attorneys up north for a lifetime camping trip, they didn't have any firearms but told me they would be fine, they had plenty of bear spray. 3 days later they were both dead. when the helicopter went up there to recover the bodies the pilot told me there was bear spray all over the place, including the bear cuz he was still there, they had to use the helicopter to run him off. The biggest Myth about being in bear country is that all you need is bear spray for self defense
I have friends in British Columbia who own a beautiful mountainside home near Mt. Currie. They'd been living there for at least 15yrs. I asked them if they'd seen bears around & they said "all the time". I was going to take a walk with my niece in the paths around their home (there are other homes every 200yds or so), and asked if they owned a shotgun or rifle I could take with me & they all looked at me like I'm crazy. The didn't own a gun at all, "bears left people alone", they said. "Just make noise". I don't want to shoot an animal for the sake of it. I don't want to bring a gun where it's not welcome. But having my 11yr old niece watch as her uncle gets eaten alive by a black bear while a bell dings away on my ankle isn't exactly something I want her to live with. There were people on ATVs with shotguns on their backs, there were seniors in golf carts with rifles strapped to the frames. I relate to them far more. I know this is Canada, not Chicago, but sometimes I think Canadians put too much faith in statistics & have a naïve, altruistic approach to apex predators, as though 'respecting its turf' will keep me safe. I don't give a good g.d. about how rare an attack is or whose turf I'm on. As a very species, people in bear or wolf country have to prepare themselves.
If you could ask every human through history who has been attacked by a bear "Hey the day you were attacked. Did you think you were going to get attacked?" They would all say no. That is your friends mindset. Tons of people are oblivious to danger every day. You can choose to be like them, or not.
The grizzly vs black bear attacks across Canada are at 60% vs 40%. Probably because most people are too relaxed around black bears. During the day most black bears have just ignored me, versus the grizzly that are usually at least watching me, but if I am still moving as the sun goes down they seem a lot more interested in me. On average. The cats always creep me out though, have seen a few show themselves in the distance just as I am climbing into the truck. There is a reason I do most of my off trail activities on crown land, the national parks are firearm free zones.
@@requited2568, Been through Canada a LOT over the decades. Alaska to Arizona runs. Loved it! Awesome people there & made many friends. Spent lots of times in your parks & wilderness areas. However, the last few years things changed. All for the worse. Initially we could bring our handguns through but they had to be sealed in a govt plastic bag & still sealed upon leaving Canada. Then NO handguns allowed at all. Then NO guns whatsoever. Peoples attitude changed too. NON for the better. Our phones didn't work & we couldnt get a canadian phone being non citizens. Lousy highway Alcan markers & getting lost was a nightmare. Your people thought it was real funny to intentionally misdirect us. Your major citys had turned into homeless shitholes. The only people who gave us correct info was your police. Our last trip North 5 years ago was a nightmare. Usually wed stop over for days at Laird Hot Springs but the govt had fenced it all off & set up check in gates & not even bearspray was allowed in, not even in our vehicles. There had been several fatal bear attacks there & NO methods of personal bear protection were allowed. Not even a hunting knife. WHAT HAPPENED to our beautiful CANADA??? That last experience was so bad we just quit going through. Staying in Alaska or flying across. Trudeau & his buddies really phucked your country up. Our gold mining friends were arrested way out in the middle of nowhere because they had anti bear shotguns on them. RCMP Helicopter flew over & saw them. They had to bury their bear shotguns outside of town to defend themselves in the bush & rebury them before coming back into town. They said your violent crime is skyrocketing & your laws do NOTHING about it. Granted, here in America its going that way too. The demonazies party of Satan is insuring that. I guess thats what happens when country goes Godless. Good is eliminated & EVIL rules.
Something I've noticed reading these stories about bear encounters and attacks. Seems like if the bear is aggressive bear spray doesn't work very often. But if the bear is more curious then it seems like bear spray works more effectively. Just something I've noticed.
Great podcast, awesome you include listener stories. One important thing you left out about bear spray is the wind 💨. If the wind is not right, you damn near screwed with just spray.
Ron , my hunting rifle is a ARMALITE AR 10 WITH A 20 ROUND MAG ,308. EIK A 180 OR 200 GRAIN ROUND.. DEER 150 OR LARGER DEPNDING ON DISTANCE. MAGIZINE 20 ROUND PEOPLE MIGHT THINK WHY SO MANY . BUT I ONLY HAVE CARRY ONE MAG. AND THAT LEAVES ROOM FOR OTHER GEAR .
There was this incident about 20 years ago where a man hunting ducks with a shotgun ran into a bear and cubs. He had his dog with him. The bear turned around and was running away but suddenly decided to turn around and attack. Maybe it got pissed off for the dog barking at her or maybe she thought the dog was chasing her and the cubs. Anyway, she did turn around and attack. The hunter used his shotgun in the last minute about two yards away because the gun was naturally loaded with birdshot. The bear died in his feet. Don't underestimate the power of a 12ga shotgun at close range.
@shelleypilcher3812 it can, yes. Especially if it's a bluff charge. But that doesn't always work on predatory animals. For example, I was confronted by a mountain lion about a month ago that came into my coyote call at night (hunting with thermal and night vision). After yelling without any response or movement from the cat, I fired two warning shots that also didn't make the cat budge. If it would have taken one more step, I would have had to take it down, but thankfully it finally walked away. He was 27 yards away. I actually have that encounter recorded on the thermal I was using on my helmet mounted setup. Was a fun time.
I have read comments from people who live in outback Alaska and a 12 guage shotgun loaded with rifled slugs is their go to bear defense. I watched a video on you tube where a dude shot a 12 guage slug 400 yards and it went through a 1/2" plyboard. I visited an Alaskan Indian village called Icey Straight Point and when the Indians go into the forest, they take a dog with them.
@@HughButler-lb6zs That's what I used to carry. Winchester Defender 1300 loaded with rifled slugs. I've seen bear tracks several times on my hikes but luckily never ran into a beer. Nowdays I also carry a pepper spray and a whistle. I blow into the whistle every now and then to let the wildlife know I'm there.
I have a Remington 870 Tactical Pump. I saw a You Tube video by a Cop and he told me something really important. I used to keep the shotgun fully loaded with 6 rounds of #00 Buckshot….not anymore. The compression from that spring will “Deform” your shot shell and it will not load. So, I unloaded my shotgun and damn, it was true, all of those rounds had mushroomed near the opening, not much, but enough to keep the round from being chambered…SO..only keep maybe 2 rounds but keep a side saddle with.6 more at the ready!
Flew into Alaska- Fairbanks to see our Son in the Army. We went hiking- I really wanted a rifle or shotgun but that was not gonna happen. As we hiked we filled our plastic water bottles with gravel and rattled them constantly. We had seen bears not far from our hiking area in Denali. One was feeding perhaps a mile away in a drainage, the other had attempted to leave that drainage and get into the uplands but had done an about face at the road. We got away with making lots of racket but I still felt "naked and afraid". Everywhere we hiked we talked, rattled and looked ahead. When you need a 12ga or .338 Win Mag a rattle or spray ain't gonna cut it. We were cautious and lucky throughout our trip.
@@eriklarson9137 Have you seen a S&W 500 in person? I have held one too. It has to be one of the most ridiculous firearms out there. It's as long as your thigh bone. If you told me it was 7 pounds, I'd believe you. I've seen rangers carry it. It doesn't make sense to me.
@@thedalillama, Whats your life worth? I guarantee the cost will be the LAST thing youll be thinking of when the SHTF. Reloading is another option but the setup isnt cheap. Thats an ever changing science for the truly dedicated high volume guys. The 10mm is more than enough, especially in todays high volume magazines but again, one has to be dedicated & PRACTICE A LOT. Here in Alaska the 10mm is taking over because they work. Lighter, faster & more likely to be kept ON you. Too many cases of folks setting their rifles down just out of reach when the SHTF. A good backup pistol ON YOU is SOP.
As a retired cop we used pepper spray and you always get some back on you in a fight. I have to guess the same thing will happen during a bear attack & you’ll need to be prepared for that too.
A factor to consider in shooting a revolver is barrel rise and the time required to recover. A revolver might work well if the recovery time were not so great. Consider the Chiappa Rhino .357 Magnum revolver. Recoil is straight back and recovery time is minimal because it has so little barrel rise. The split seconds saved might save your life!
Ron, the 45 super you mentioned at some point isn't really a different cartridge, it's just souped up 45 acp brass with a crazy hot load. A sturdy weapon like a 1911, chambered in 45 acp, can fire it provided some stiffer springs and such. Check out the 450 SMC too.
I'm no expert, but I did a bunch of research for a grizzly television show I worked on in 2018. I can't find where I saved it, but this is essentially what I remember: 1. Bear bells and spray work well... When the bear isn't charging. In fact, every time they failed to stop the threat was when the bear was charging. The majority of times that guns failed is when they weren't even used but were present. Spray is good when bears are getting too close but aren't yet aggressive. A charging bear should be addressed with a firearm. 2. There is anecdotal evidence of 9mm and even 22lr successfully terminating bears, and anecdotal evidence of 10mm and 44 mag failing to do so, but these incidents statistically are outliers for larger bears especially. Based on tests performed on bear skulls and actual successful brown bear and polar bear kills, the optimum bear defense load for a handgun is at least a 200 grain, non expansive projectile going at least 1,200 fps. This makes sense when you realize that 44 Magnum and 454 Casull effortlessly meet this criteria and 10mm and certain 357 magnums barely achieve this. However, keep in mind that these specifications achieve penetration, not cavitation. 3. Virtually every rifle caliber is effective against bears, including 556. In fact, while doing my research I read an article about Scandinavian Polar bear hunter exclusively using AR 15s. The speed provided the penetration and cavitation necessary to achieve lethality, even in a massive white bear. Also, a failed shot can be quickly followed up by many more in the AR platform. Having said that, my dedicated bear gun is a 450 bushmaster, with 250 grain, 2,200 fps projectiles providing penetration and cavitation.
A 5.56 is really good. Its a light wieght round and what it lacks in knockdown it makes up for in velocity. A semi auto like an AR15 or Mini14 with a 30 round mag and extremely light tecoil means 5 rounds or more with very little off target time. And honestly i dont know what it is but they are loud. For a liggt grain round it causes a lot of cavitation and shock to tissue. Its up in the air but between a 5.56 semi auto or a 45-70 lever if not hunting one, i think I would choose a 5.56. Simply I can put 5 shouts with a 5.56 as quick as I can fire 1 and work the lever or bolt and get back on target.
*You are correct about the 'bear spray' vs. well placed slugs--the well placed slugs are the best practice.* *Preserving human life is of prime import.*
Hey! He quoted my comment. It’s nearing spring here in Alaska and bears are starting to wake up and move around. I’ve hunted in Alaska for years and done multiple fly-in trips on Kodiak. I’ve been charged by a bear, but never had to shoot one. Most charges are false, but you never know when it’s the real deal! Transporting bear spray and cook stove fuel in floats is common. And many outfitters will have stock of fuel and spray that other hunters have left behind because they cannot fly home with it on commercial flights. You should contact your outfitter ahead of time to be sure. Love your channel! Thanks
Get ANY military marksmanship manual. The least accurate firing podition is standing. Dropping to one knee is MORE ACCURATE and doesn't take a lot longer as your gun is coming up. Dropping prone on the ground is most accurate but of course less good at repositioning.
I can shot a .22 longrifle pistol very well. Fast and accurately. Don't think I will want to try and use it for bear defense, except as a last option. I think you should say use the biggest caliber that you can shot well. In my case that would be the 45 Colt. It has light recoil and an excellent record of success.
Great advice. Screw what ballistics are needed to drop your intended target. Just think of your poor wrist. Wouldn't want to hurt yourself. Great advice!
The problem with the stats on the effectiveness of bear spray is that most of the incidences where it is deployed, were never going to be actual attacks. Deterring a curious bear can be done by many means, including spray, air horns, and simply yelling. Deterring a bear intend on actually attacking you is a different matter. Most of the accounts where spray is used in actual attacks do not end well. I carry a .357 in grizzly country and a 9mm in black bear country, both with heavy hard cast ammo, both in a custom chest holster. I carry spray too, but in any sudden and violent attack, my first reach will be for the handgun. It's also true that the noise from a gun shot is very likely to deter a bear, and that is a choice you already have in your hand. The simple fact is though, anytime you end up in a conflict with a bear, the outcome will never be certain. The best defense is to avoid the conflict if you can.
I am from the Eastern Front in MT, on the Blackfeet Reservation just South East of GNP. I have been around grizzlies my entire life, and in general a healthy respect will keep you safe. We are a ranching family and spend a lot of time in aspen and willow thickets just miserable thick with bear. It is my experience that bear are nowhere near as obnoxious as moose or mtn lions. I know three people who have been mauled, including the bear fister himself (Chase Dellwo). Majority of those attacks were fright induced, with one being a claimed kill. There was even one on the east side of our ranch this last hunting season though no one was hurt. The bear did not survive. We carry 12gauge Mossberg 500s when working in the brush. Loaded with rubber bear stoppers (non lethal, fwp supplied) and 3in mag slugs after. They are efficient and have detterred many bear before the slugs were even used. We also carry pistols, various calibers, and they perform well. You have to train. Kentucky Ballistics has a video in simulated bear models with hand guns. Worth taking a look. Spray does work, but it cannot be the only option. Where I live is hyper high winds and in general the spray will be displaced on a nasty day, but in many cases it has worked. Dogs will bring bears back on you, there have been a few people mauled because their dog started crap with a sow. One I know of off hand that did not survive. I carry a straight knife but not really for bears, though it would be a huge thing for me culturally to take a bear with a knife. I chest rig carry while fishing, but luckily have never needed but, but I dont leave it. Last thing, bears are fast, at ready it is a gamble to have a shot off in a short distance. Use a basketball being bounced one time at 30 feet, that is how the gov trappers told us to practice. My ultimate advice, make enough noise, singing, talking loud etc is great for a hike. Hunting, stay vigilant. Go in groups, we hunt in pairs. When processing game, take turns, one stands gaurd (dinner bell bears are their own misery), and do not get it stuck in your head, you will do better if you are somewhere between cautious but not overly nervous. Dont run down hill, bears are still faster than you, dont run period. I have been hiking, working, fishing, and hunting since I was 5 and have had close calls, been charged, huffed at, and bluffed, but I have never been jammed up.
There is no such thing as a shotgun, rifle or hand gun that is too powerful for bear protection. When you have literally been within the paws reach of the largest Grizzly Bear that I have ever seen, you gain a deep respect for how dangerous that animal really is. Predators do sometimes respect other Predators. If you are well armed and fearless, then you are also a predator. If you are afraid, then you ARE prey. Great respect with great caution goes a long way towards Bear protection. Enjoy the wilderness safety and live to see many more pleasant days.
Btj - what an incredibly refreshing thing to hear from someone with a day-in, day-out, lifetime of experience behind what they say, and a wide perspective not clouded by a testosterone overload. Great info: much appreciated.
Up here in Alaska the Brennikie Black Magic slugs are favored as THE favorite norm. Course, with all the new designs coming out we never had before its a hard call. Shotguns are basically cabin guns. The shells malfunction if they get wet or in high humidity unless theyve been weatherproofed. And getting wet up here is pretty normal.
Statistics is a power tool, just like a firearm. People with only a basic command of it tend to get a false sense of what the data really means. Suppose that bear spray works well on inquisitive bears, while not working on pissed off bears who are in existential "fight for its life" mode. Suppose you get 10 bear spray encounters, of which 8 involved curious bears, while 2 involved aggressive bears. Superficially this would look like bear spray was 80% effective, when in reality it's 100% effective on curious bears and 0% effective in aggressive charges. That's just one hypothetical example, a scenario of how this works. The "never shoot a bear" crowd tends to say "I've been camping in bear country all my life and never had problems". That's called "anecdotal evidence", it basically means nothing. I'm sure that every hiker/camper who was mauled to death could say that up until that point. But then, that one time that a bear decides to maul you is dramatic and painful enough, that I think it's worth considering it could happen. I've never used a fire extinguisher and I don't even know anyone who has. Does that mean we shouldn't have them? Incidentally, this same misuse of statistics was how the populace was misled during the past 4 years about the other thing that is "safe and effective". Personally I'm a novice hunter, never hunted anything larger than a white tail deer. Never been in brown bear country, but hope to visit the West some time, one of the free states. Nothing against hunting bears, but probably wouldn't want to do it myself. Never would want to shoot a bear. But would have no reservations, if my life was at risk. With the full understanding that even a firearm is not a sure thing against them. I've been learning about this subject for several years, trying to figure out what I'd bring, setting it up, practicing and testing it. People who think that bears are cute and harmless have not watched enough videos of bears eating an elk alive, starting from the arse. And have not read enough reports of how many people are mauled by bears.
15:27 Siberian natives used to do exactly that. They had a sort of a short glaive that could be used as a spear, as a machete, as a walking stick. Each ethnos got their own name for the same identical tool, and in Russian its known as "palma"
16:15 Regarding the section on bear spray, the problem for most people is that they simply don't know the mindset of the bear. Is it predatory, territorial, scared therefore in flight or fight mode, or is it bluffing, curious? Phil in AK, spent the last 45 years with these animals and knew that the bear circled around and was coming back for his group, a territorial attack, where the animal acted with similar intent to fighting a rival bear. This all points to the fact that if a bear is moving quickly toward you, a firearm should be the first option, not the 2nd. The guy who sprayed the bear in the nose from a few inches, seems to have known bear behavior very well and quickly / subliminally figured this wasn't predatory or territorial. In this case he did the right thing... like Phil did to the 3" away bear at the fishing spot. When a brown bear is curious, uncertain or submissive because the human is not acting like most creatures it comes across, it seems the pepper spray is a great dominance or even a training tool. However, when it comes to a bear that's moving quickly, the assumption should be that it's there to damage you, until proven otherwise. Of course, those who only carry spray because they're told it's effective are being done an injustice by the so-called experts.
Great discussion! I live in Oregon, but I spend a lot of time in the Idaho panhandle where I grew up. I bought a 1911 because I thought my 9mm C.C. handgun was inadequate for the frequent bear and moose encounters I have. Now have to reconsider. luckily, I haven't had to use either. Nothing is going to work if you can't get it in action fast enough. A one second draw is good for a professional shooter, while 2 is more likely for someone like me. An athlete can cover 10 yards/second, while a bear is almost twice that. In 2 secs., a bear can cover over 100 feet...I think I need some practice.😧
Thanks Ron great presentation. Here in the north east we deal a lot w black bears and coyotes My friends and I usually carry pistols or heavy duty ruger revolvers. I'd like to see a show on the big cats of America I've seen a few cat attacks in the news recently. Keep up the great work. Happy trails.
Energy in the mid 500s to low 600s, it's a great round but 750-800ftlbs on 10mm.. SD will be slightly higher on a hot 10mm load sooooo yeah 10mm is the better round. I would put 357sig up there tho, it's a solid handgun round that's really putting the thump down on whatever it hits.
This is the topic that forced me to buy my first Handloader magazine back in about 2001. I was impressed with Brian Pearce's well researched article on the subject. It was common for gun writers prior to that point to brush off questions about bear protection from handguns and typically they would point out out that even the mighty 44 mag paled in comparison to a 30-30 rifle when it came to energy. But Pearce followed a line of logic I had been curious about for years. He eventually suggested a hard cast bullet from a reasonable caliber could penetrate to a bear's vitals and deter an an attack. I finally settled on a Taurus ultra lite in 45 colt with a 265 gr Cast Performance LBT style bullet at 850fps. Even though energy numbers are not high, it will penetrate 8 gallon size milk jugs of water. Somewhere through the years, I had heard a moderate velocity heavy bullet will pentrate deeper, possibly something I read from Elmer Keith, and this seems to back this up.
A Ruger Redhawk revolver chambered in 45 Colt, with Underwood Ammo's 250 grain Xtreme Penetrator rounds. It is a six shot revolver (Revolvers do not fail to extract or fail to feed, and they will still work if and when pressed into a bears ribs) which is plenty of ammo to get the job done. The 45 Colt also has light recoil for easy follow-up shots. Go to one knee and shot for the bear's brain.
@@thetexasrat Am a retired cop (Deputy Sheriff and Police Officer). Was forced not carry revolvers back in the day. I had three jam - all high quality, S&Ws (mods 28, 15, and 19). If / when my semi autos jam: tap-rack-back to battery. When my wheel guns jammed, it was: king's x, stop what I was doing, take gun to gunsmith, wait 2 to 7 days, go back to gunsmith, get gun, then - finally - back to battery. Revolvers can, and sometimes do, fail to feed, revolve or shoot. Anything mechanical can break.
I’m a Bears fan and can’t get enough of them… every football season. I watched some incredible Bear attacks in the 1980s. You didn’t want to get between them and the quarterback.
My first line of bear defense is a bell. Like he said in the video you do not want to surprise a bear. They cant hear you coming very well in a noisy environment, like near a creek or river. I hike a ton in the woods of alaska and have yet to have a bear not run away as soon as they could hear me coming.
You have to have bear spray on you, so you can use it for legal defense. The libtards will attack you for going to guns first. But if you had bear spray, you can say you used that first.
Thank you so much for an excellent video full of very good information. I have always enjoyed your videos, but this one is by far above the rest since it helps us be safer when in the wilderness.
@@ChrisBoon-kq3en your crazy ...41 mag has significantly less recoil than a 44 and penetrates deeper than a 44...thats why smart hunters love the 41 mag... and it come close in energy ft lbs
@@ChrisBoon-kq3en its not a dead cartridge...it can make a resurgence like the 10mm did...once people stop goin off whats in style or what guns come out in certain movies and actually go out and test things...
Hey Ron, dogs and bears. I had a college buddy big hiker and he always took his dog with him, loose on hikes. This was in the 80's, he was in north eastern Idaho right near the Montana border. The dog was way out front, kinda before spray and he never carried. The dog was way ahead of him, then he heard a yelp and barking, it barking kept getting closer. The dog, a mix who probably was 120 lbs, he ran up behind him. Around the corner came a good sized black bear 🐻 running towards him and the dog. HE raised up his arms with his back pack in one arm, the dog barking alongside him. The bear stopped sniffed, then turned went back down the direction it had come from. The bear walking forward head turned looking back at him and his dog. From then on he had the dog on a long leash and he purchased a 6" barrel 357.
Yeah but can you control the recoil to reliably put rounds on target when it's a charging bear? That's a wholeeee Lotta recoil to deal with in a high panicked situation.
That 500 is a stupid gun to shoot and if you don’t crack your elbow it will shake your brains and eye balls so just bend your elbo and the will come straight back and it has a ported barrel . If you don’t bend your elbo you may only one shot and if have shot it a few times it’s not fun and you need ear protection with a tree in front ground of you and sound bounce from the tree right back at you and your ears will ring for a hour or two . So good luck with the 500 !
User, Still TROLLING! AGAIN showing your ignorance. The B.B. hardcasts are 430 grains @ 2300 fps. Thats over twice your statement. Almost 6000 fpe. And youve never shot a 460 or 500 in your life. Apparently never a bear loaded 45/70 either.
Thank you, great info! I am a firm believer in both the spray and a chest holstered semi-auto/revolver firearm. Have property in Eastern Tennessee that borders along the Cherokee National Forest about .8 miles from the AT. Encountered Black Bears out there and fortunately have not had to deploy any countermeasures yet, however did pop a round into a tree above the heads of 3 dogs that were barking and advancing on me when bushwacking out there. Was enough to scare them away and not have to use the spray. That stuff ain't cheap...
The problem with bear spray is it is only good under certain conditions. If there are two or more people in your party, one can try the bear spray while the other stands back, up-wind, and covers with a firearm. If you are alone it is a dangerous idea. Fine mist from the spay might get in your eyes and hamper you at a critical moment.
bear spray is only good for a bear that is not charging, which just so happens to be down wind. other than that it is useless and a waste of precious time.
@@thetexasrat that is very much not true. The main intended use for bear spray is to turn a charge. And if it happens to be charging from upwind you're still better off using it than not using it. You're posting your opinion, which happens to be at odds with the advice given by bear researchers, state and provincial wildlife branches, wilderness park staff, and also at odds with the statistical record. Unfortunately there's a lot of bias connected with how people see themselves and others i.e. redneck/treehugger and with the politics of gun control. When a grizzly is charging you it doesn't give a crap about any of that. For me, being in Canada, a handgun isn't permitted anyway. We can only transport handguns to and from a registered target shooting range and without stopping for gas or groceries along the way. We can't carry them in wilderness, and we have plenty of wildlife. I've never personally known anyone to carry a rifle or shotgun when not hunting, except rarely when we were doing forestry work in the era before bear spray. In that case we carried a short barrelled12 ga pump with pistol grip and with the warning that it might not stop a charge. Most of the time, even though it was grizzly country and we each worked our areas solo, we didn't carry anything other than our eyes, ears and common sense. When I'm solo in my favorite area of the British Columbia fjord country bear spray is my only physical deterrent. Of course I do other things to minimize the risk of a surprise grizzly encounter in the first place.
There is a particular way of holding the bear spray in the left hand while supporting the right hand that holds the firearm with the left wrist In a cross technique where the right wrist is above the left wrist and the left hand is to the right of the firearm. In that way it is possible to attempt the bear spray but if it doesn't work almost immediately the firearm is available. I have practiced getting into this position quite a bit and firing in this position. We used to travel to Alaska frequently. I would carry a Sig 229 357 sig with hard cast bullets. Also an extended 17 round magazine. While holding the bear spray in the left hand facing toward the target, and supporting the shooting hand with the left wrist I was able to be on target most of the time from 25 yards. I considered that it would be likely I would only get off three shots initially. Therefore, in order to rely on the bear spray that bear would have to be further away than 20 yards otherwise I would have ditched it for the gun. Of course, I never had an incident where I had to use either so I can't tell you how it would have turned out. We are going to Alaska next year. If you don't hear back from me my method did not work.
I have read numerous statements that bears have been seen rolling in and/or eating the residue of bear deterrent spray after it has been sprayed. It was stated that they seem to be attracted to the flavor etc. As long as it is not airborne mist which is entering their mucous membrane areas in their nose, (and getting into their lungs), or in their eyes.
The article Ron mentions on Ammo Land, has an updated article, “Handgun Defenses Against Bear Attacks - 170 Documented Incidents, 98% Effective.” In this article there are links to the earlier articles, the first 104, and the second 123. For each incident they list where and when it occurred. They also list what type of bear, what caliber was used, and the result. They also include information on each incident. For anyone interested this is a great source of information on the subject.
I was stationed at Whitefish, Montana for two years in the U.S. Border Patrol. Part of my patrol area was a place called "Trail Creek" where the north fork of the Flathead River enters the U.S. There was a retired RCMP member who was assigned to Canadian Customs who, when he saw my vehicle, would cross over to visit. We invariably would end up talking about bears since he had been stationed on the west coast of British Columbia where they were in abundance. I remember asking him how many bears he had to dispatch in one year. (I thought that he would maybe say 5 or 6.) His answer was 36! As you might imagine he had many, many stories and when asked what weapon he chose he replied, "Remington 870 12 gauge" with 00 buckshot for both Black Bears and Grizzlies. Dogs and bears: Dog sees bear, bears runs off with dog in pursuit, bear changes his mind and chases dog, dog runs back to owner. Ooops.
@@thedalillama, So whats your " friend" going to do once across? Cant get a vehicle to travel, cant get a phone unless your a proven canadian citizen. NO guns allowed at all. If caught the Canadians arent going to play around & unlike Biden illegals arent welcome & severely punished. The RCMP arent whimps whos hands are tied like our law enforcement is & they will severely kick your ass both before & in prison. Canadians have no right & a dictator president w NO Constitution or Bill of Right to ignore like the demonazies here are doing. Tell your " friend" hed be wise to get a passport first or just fly over Canada to wherever.
I beat that. 43 in one year on the Queen Charlotte Islands. I do have some doubts about your rcmp member claim of 36 in one year, as during my career as a CO in many remote postings in B.C., CO’s rarely kill that many in one season. CO’s are the primary responders to bear complaints so I think I have the experience to speak to this issue.
I purchased a 44 ruger from a bowhunter that gave up bowhunting because he was hunting with a buddy that was carrying the 44 to protect themselves from a bear attack he said he almost crapped himselve when a grizzly with a cub stod up on hind legs just a few yards down the trail, he whirled around to see if his buddy was aiming the ruger at the bear but he saw his buddys siloette in midair jumping over a log running away with the 44 in his holster. Unless you are stupid you will never count on someone else to protect you when confronted with a dangerous annimal because buddy might run instead of gun then you are done. 😢
I’ve been charged by a black bear in Kenai Fjords NP Alaska. All I had was a 50 cal muzzleloader so I was worthless. He came toward my buddy and I along the sea shore and I expected him to turn into the forest at any time. He never did. 😂 When he got 20 feet away he turned toward us and charged. My buddy had a 30-06 and shot the bear from the hip (no time to shoulder the weapon). His shot was deadly and we filled his tag.
.40 s&w shield with snake shot in the chamber, followed by 7 rounds of solid copper Fort Munition Tumble on impact. That’s my “fishing expedition” rig. After in countering a giant red diamond back rattle snake on cliff side with little evading options, I’ll always have snake shot coming out first.
There ARE semi-auto .357 mag pistols available also. Most ppl avoid these yet compare recoil ft.lbs of both and choose .. 4" barrelled .357 mag help and with recoil, target acquition. My choice is w/ .357 mag w/ 200 gr, hard-cast, flat nosed, Double Tap ammo and 2 shots practice weekly and now kneeling.
I was working 3rd shift when I was with my ex-wife. I let her pick the campground because I was sleeping. When we arrived at our campground in Mio, Michigan and the first thing we saw was a sign for bears. I didn't help pick the campground, so I didn't bring a gun. We decided to stay and set up the tent next to a pretty river. During the day, I had a saw and a knife, so I made us four spears, two four-foot spears, and two eight-foot spears for defense. I watched a lot of survival shows on TV and tempered them all in the fire because it makes them stronger. Three a.m. rolls around, and I woke up to something sniffing the tent but didn't hear any footfall. I reached over and grabbed my wife's legg woke her up and told her something was out there. We listened to common sense and didn't have food in the tent. We both waited till four a.m. and booked it for the car after we were sure it was gone and slept in the car the rest of the night. I never camp without a gun now.
Hey Ron love your insites into all the hunting topics and range work with the different guns and calibers. Please dont quote me but i watched, i do belive he was native. He set up a bear target being towed by a sled and he shot it using different guns rounds and showed how hard it was to engage. BIG GRIZZLES CAN MOVE LIGHTING FAST BE PREPARD. It was very inlighting you might like it .
For those considering 12 gauge with OO buckshot loads. The OO buck pellet is 0.33" diameter, but it only weighs 55 grains, giving a Sectional Density of only .072 with a 1350 fps. NOT very good penetration thru the fur and skin of a bear, and then into the flesh. Probably not enough energy to break shoulder bones or damage spine. A 12 gauge sabot load slug with 385 grains and 0.500" diameter has a sectional density of .220 and 1725 fps.
Lewis and Clark used spears as bear defense. Also, bear spray is weaker than human pepper spray. The reason is bears have a much greater sense of smell and taste, so pepper spray could permanently harm the bear or possibly kill it. In addition, you don’t spray a bear spray at the bears head. You spray it on the ground between you and the bear, forcing it to enter a cloud that expands to a great size. Bear spray is the recommended solution by the forest service.
Excellent presentation! Thank you so much. The only thing I have that’s close is my HK full size .45 ACP, 5 inch barrel, 10 rounds Buffalo Bore blunt nose .255 +P. Is good for chest holster but pretty big. (On a humorous note, if I miss I could try and beat it senseless with this large gun. ) Thanks again. Steve
Pepper spray has to hit open eyes or nostrils to work. Its whole point is to inflame the mucous membranes. If you are just spritzing fur, it does nothing. It is also difficult to aim and use except at extreme close ranges. It’s a poor substitute for a gun.
I carry OC spray every day along with my handgun, so I'll always have the pepper spray as a backup. I wouldn't want to rely on it as the first line of defense against a bear. I once saw a brown bear on a road about 75 yds away while driving in a park and even then I was partially paralyzed with fear (26 years ago I didn't have spray or a gun). Humbling experience. I'd never risk spraying first and, if it failed, having the manual dexterity to switch to my gun.
Excellent video! Learned a few things. 9mm and it's ammo, I would've never guessed! In Florida here and central west coast Florida (where I live), black bear make themselves known from time to time. "Never" had a problem with one but, you just never know!!! Subscribed too...
I really appreciate your seemingly unbiased information, Ron. Youre about as even keeled as anyone has access to. I try to be open minded about "bear spray", but it seems too unreliable, compared to a fast moving projectile. I recognize my own skewed opinion, as i have no experience with the spray, plus, ive never been attacked by a bear. And i grew up on a competitive shooting range. But ive listened to many podcasts about bear spray with mixed opinions. For me, id go with what i know works, every time
Best bet to reduce risk of bear attack is to avoid bears when they have been drinking alcohol. They tend to get a lot more aggressive after a few drinks plus are really bad tempered with the hangover the next day
I pack a 9mm wirh hardcast or my .357 with hardcast. During a drill i was limpwristing my 9 and got jammed. User error. Preventable but only through training like you said.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
I started my guiding career for James Gary Shelton in 1989. Gary he was against the use of bear spray for self defense on a bear. He always said that too many things had to be in your favor for bear spray to work. He favored a large caliber rifle or Handgun if you could handle one over bear spray. He wrote a few books on bear attacks.
I hunted in areas with high black bear populations, but they did not overly concern me. I hunted areas with high grizzly bear populations and that seriously got my attention. I always carried a Ruger SS in .45 Colt with 300gr Nosler partitions. Pepper spray is like giving someone a bottle of hot sauce to go with their chicken dinner!
@ralphgreenjr.2466 The hiss, or strangeness from a human spraying bear spray is enough to stop a bluff charge. Many experienced guides claim most charges are bluffs, so it stands to reason that people who spray during a bluff charge became overly confident in their spray.
A serious bear will plow through any spray, and all people should know that.
I've spent much of my life here in Wyoming, much of it in NW Wyoming in mixed bear country. If you have time to try a non lethal methods in hopes of a bluff charge, people will read about you. We have high winds..persistent bears and terrain that doesn't allow for much advance time. I dint recommend bear spray in the western mountains. If you want to try that in the Ozarks or Blue Mountains around deer camp, you may be fine.
Bears behave very differently in different areas. Bears in Nome tend to run at the sight of a gun. Just outside of Nome, you better be packing. In Anchorage, the bears have no fear of man at all.
@@5jjt You are accounting for the different environmental factors. All environments aren't the same.
I've been charged by both grizzlies and black bears here in NW Wyoming. When they charge, you never think about what species is coming at you at that moment. I thankfully survived both attacks, ending in one bear demise via a bow and 5 yard shot. Do NOT underestimate black bears, please, when they attack, they have every intention of killing you. Claws and teeth are claws and teeth.
I agree, don't underestimate black bears, my father's friend was attacked and killed east of Great Slave Lake NWT, he went outside his fishing cabin after midnight to pee, bear jumped him he died. That was around 2006. In 2014 I was working at Suncor base plant Ft. Mcmurray Canada when a 37 year old lady was stalked and killed by a black bear in spring.
I lived up there.hidson hope white horse watson lake..yes black bears will stalk and kill.@dwaynemcallister7231
I read in several publications that black bears are more afraid of you than you are of them. Problem is bears don't read
Hey Ron, what about a good dog or two. On the trail they are the best ground seeking radar against being surprised by a bear either at home or in the wild and they can be trained to not make noise unless you're at risk.
Hey, we're neighbors. I don't underestimate black bears but I know that they are far more prone to run away. They are also much easier to intimidate with aggressive behavior, but I found some HUGE black bear tracks down on South Fork one time that I wouldn't care to find out if he ran or not. That guy had to be 500lbs if he was an ounce and he didn't seem to be too intimidated by all the grizzly tracks that were around.
My wife can barely run at all, so I just always take her with me into bear country. Problem solved!
😂🤣😂
Cold hard truth from the gentleman himself ❤😂😂
This is, probably, a pretender- faker, fraud poster. Nasty .
Hickok45 coming in cold as ice, damn
Dang. My wife runs way better than me. Time to find plan B.
5" 454. Casull in a chest rig. The largest back up gun I can shoot well at 50 yrds. I carry bear spray, just so I can articulate that I had it with me.
Big IRON 🤠 😉
It's not 1980 any longer. Move up to a .500.
@@eriklarson9137.460 s&w puts out more energy and has fewer frames blowing up in people's faces
@@eriklarson9137, Ya, bullshit. Last summer a friend emptied his 500 into a charging griz. Last shot at 2 feet hit the bears spine & dropped it. Its momentum knocked him off his feet & he went flying. Entire cylinder emptied into the bears body, His friends shot it in the face finally killing it w their 10mms. Now he carries a 10 too. Says a gun he can control beats one he cant. Hot bear slugs in both. Most folks just dont understand bears. Even with their hearts & lungs shot clean out they can still keep going on rage adrenalin & muscle memory long enough to still kill you. Bears brain is behind its FACE. The " magic triangle. Across the eyes down to its nose is a guaranteed brain shot. We had a F&G officer who only carried a 40 S&W his entire career. No specialty bear slugs back then. Only had regular FMJs. He shot several attacking bears in the FACE up close & retired unscathed. Laughed at the big bore guys. Said hed never seen any bear attack anybody by running at th
@@eriklarson9137, Oops, hit send too early. He said hed never seen any bear attack anyone by running at them backwards & he waited until they were too close to miss & face shot em. Never needed more than 1 shot. Course, he did get knocked over a few times from the bears momentum but never mauled. In the FACE or at the bottom of the ear sideways is a positive brain hit & instantly fatal. Some lil native girl in Canada killed a HUGE record griz w only a single shot 22 long. In the eye. Not an L.R. but a simple long. Basically, a 22 short in a long case. Our bushlady friend killed a ton of bears with her single shot, short bbl 22 L.R. rifle. In the eye, up the nose or under the ear sideways. Said she shot em the moment they looked at her. Never gave em a chance to attack her. Course, she could snap shoot a running squirrel in the head at 50 yards too. She died peacefully in an old folks home in her bed, smiling. Christian woman.
Here in western washington black bears never really caused much concern for me. Mountain lions sketch me out a bit. Always armed in the woods.
I'm also in western WA.. agree with you. Cougars freak me out. Bears pretty much run away
Unless a black bear is wounded.
@@awwwshucks443until one is wounded....I've been charged by 100% of thr wounded black bears I've been a part of finding.
That's fair... Any wounded animal is extremely dangrous
That is a great point. I only hunt blacktail and elk. So I've never had to track a wounded bear. I would imagine it could get a little hairy.
I think one reason for the inflated success rate for bear spray may be that the spray is often used on bears that are simply near but haven't acted aggressive yet. A successful hazing of an uncommitted bear gets counted as a successful defense against an attack. Guns usually won't be used until the bear actually charges. I see a reason for carrying both spray (or a BYRNA) and a gun. Kind of a version of using spray as a first result and a gun as backup, but with a difference: Use spray to "keep an honest bear honest" that is, a bear that is near but not yet aggressive. Use the gun on a bear that is actually charging.
That is it in a nutshell.
Never been attacked have you. You MIGHT have 2-5 seconds to respond. Spray NEVER works in a real attack & only pisses a bluffing bear off more into a full attack. Anymore goofy questions?
@@tristantimothy1004 Chill dude. Bear spray has been proven effective for nuisance bears, good caliber firearms for bear attacks. That is what he wrote and what I agreed with. And, yes, I have been attacked by a bear and used environment for cover. I was too young to have had either firearm or spray but not too young to jump under a car and then onto a trailer boat and barricade myself. Residential black bear attacks are common in Florida. Were I to go to brown bear country, or in the woods with large black bear populations, I would carry no less than a .357 with hot ammo and bear spray to deter those wandering into camp.
Absolutely. That's where bear spray shines and consists of the majority of bear to human interactions.
@@austinhuber3131, What is it about " Spray never works in a real attack & can turn a bluff charge into a real attack " you didnt get?
Black bear droppings are smaller and often contain berries, leaves, and possibly bits of fur. Brown bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper.
😅
I would not go around telling people what poop smells like(?).
@thetexasrat: then how do you get laid?
@@thetexasrat smells like humor
@@yeayeasautoadventures I wouldn't know, but I'll take your word on it.
I live in Alaska and hunt with a 30-06 with a 180-grain Core-Loct bullet.
I use this for bears and moose!
NGL you should really consider upping to a 180gr Barnes TTSX or something similar.
I have used the corelokts for decades, and they do work, but I have had MANY instances of bullets just not exiting animals, and have pulled many from animals that were in the 120-130gr(ish) area for retained weight.
Ultimately they are not ideal for bigger animals IE moose elk, big bears ect
Going to an all copper Barnes or similar you have 99% weight retention meaning you can even go to a 150-165gr load and have more velocity, more expansion, deeper penetration, and actually still have more weight vs 180 corelokts because they arent breaking up and shedding it.
Just something to consider
I switched to the Barnes TTSX and now LRX years ago and they are just simply better in every way. If you're only shooting 100yds with perfect broadside shots you're fine I guess but especially when you need to take a 2-3-400yd poke, it really starts to matter.
Also much better option for bear defence as far as this topic goes lol the much better penetration and expansion of the Barnes FAR surpassed the Corekokt and the retained weight plays a big part in that as well
But the bullet exiting the animal is just huge. Even with a perfect shot a big animal can run 100yds, and if you don't have 2 holes pumping out blood, tracking them can be extremely difficult and depending on terrain and environmental factors it's very easy to lose an animal even if the shot was perfect if they just aren't 🩸 enough or the bed down and get that single hole plugged up with mud and debris.
And if heaven forbid the shot isnt perfect, a better performing bullet pays HUGE dividends and gives that little extra wiggle room for success, or at very least gives ya far more blood to follow as they can't easily plug TWO holes by bedding down.
"The wild is neither good nor evil! It is simply wild!" The late Colonel Jeff Cooper
And indifferent.
The good Colonel was a dumb ass.
When i hear stories about bears, i always think about Patrick McManus's story " The Bear that Ate Gomba". Check spelling on that. Hilarious. Really miss the old writers from the magazines of my youth. Only a few are still active, and electronic media has relpaced magazines. Thanks Ron for staying in the business, been reading your stuff for years, watching your web stuff for half a decade or so.
One of the funniest stories I ever read.
Pat is the man 🤣👍
The dog and moose story was priceless ! lol You gave us lots to think about when it comes to bears. A neighbor once told me that while hunting deer he came down off a mountain and stepped out onto a logging road. He spotted a black bear about 70/80 yards up the road. It saw him to and charged right at him immediately . He emptied his .30-06 on it as it charged and it fell about 5 feet in front of him . Close call . That story has always stayed with me when I am out in the woods. Excellent podcast.
I was hiking on Afognak island and my feet were getting sore and wet from recent rain. The sun had just came out so I found a rocky beach and took off my boots and socks to air out. All my stuff was scattered everywhere. It felt good to be in the sunshine and dry out. I heard a noise and watched in astonishment as a large sow with two cubs came down to the beach with intention of walking past me 15 yds away along the water. I really could not walk well on the sharp rocks with my tender feet and I didn't want her to get into my lunch so I just started yelling and grabbed my pistol. I could tell she was getting nervous because her cubs just wanted to run up to me and play. She just waited there for her cubs to turn around and swaying her head. I kept yelling until finally they did and mom took them back the way they came. It was a very stressful situation! I put on my boots and got the heck out of there!
I bet the bear spray Survey is mainly bluff charges. Not a determined bear charge.
Bear spray is basically heck off spray. If you have a curious bear or nuisance bear it is very good at getting them to heck off. It you have a bear that is already acting defensively it's effectiveness is almost certainly going to drop off. Bear spray may even be pretty good for predatory attacks, the bear is stalking you and looking for a meal pain can be a pretty good deterrent for them to choose to get a meal somewhere else. Most actual attacks are defensive tho and this means the bear feels threatened and that it has to defend itself, it may decide it has to disregard the pain in its face incapacitate you.
Baarspray studies are usually conducted by people with a predetermined outcome requirement.
I use my GAU-8/A 30x173mm with a 3,700 grain AP projectile traveling around ~3,500 FPS. It produces just over 100,000 ft/lbs of energy. Just enough to make a complete pass through on any bear. Recoil can be a bit much, but the weapon system is over 600lbs. So, it is manageable.
Some may think that a 600lbs rifle is too heavy to hunt in the mountains with. However, I train by carrying the weight of my poor decisions. Over time, this makes the weapon feel about 8.5-9lbs. Perfect for a mountain rifle.
@@FranzAntonMesmerthe “Green Mushroom” tactic… touché, sir… Touché
Question is are you shooting dem depleted uranium rounds or HE rounds???
😂😂😂💥👍
@@EDCandLacedepleted uranium, for sure. Sectional density is around .379.
All that and you still can't beat my pa paw's 270
Back in the 90's a Flying Service I worked for in Fairbanks AK flew two California attorneys up north for a lifetime camping trip, they didn't have any firearms but told me they would be fine, they had plenty of bear spray. 3 days later they were both dead. when the helicopter went up there to recover the bodies the pilot told me there was bear spray all over the place, including the bear cuz he was still there, they had to use the helicopter to run him off. The biggest Myth about being in bear country is that all you need is bear spray for self defense
I don’t usually like to hear people just speaking but this gentleman is an exception. Excellent content
I have friends in British Columbia who own a beautiful mountainside home near Mt. Currie. They'd been living there for at least 15yrs. I asked them if they'd seen bears around & they said "all the time". I was going to take a walk with my niece in the paths around their home (there are other homes every 200yds or so), and asked if they owned a shotgun or rifle I could take with me & they all looked at me like I'm crazy. The didn't own a gun at all, "bears left people alone", they said. "Just make noise".
I don't want to shoot an animal for the sake of it. I don't want to bring a gun where it's not welcome. But having my 11yr old niece watch as her uncle gets eaten alive by a black bear while a bell dings away on my ankle isn't exactly something I want her to live with.
There were people on ATVs with shotguns on their backs, there were seniors in golf carts with rifles strapped to the frames. I relate to them far more. I know this is Canada, not Chicago, but sometimes I think Canadians put too much faith in statistics & have a naïve, altruistic approach to apex predators, as though 'respecting its turf' will keep me safe. I don't give a good g.d. about how rare an attack is or whose turf I'm on. As a very species, people in bear or wolf country have to prepare themselves.
If you could ask every human through history who has been attacked by a bear "Hey the day you were attacked. Did you think you were going to get attacked?" They would all say no. That is your friends mindset. Tons of people are oblivious to danger every day. You can choose to be like them, or not.
@@eriklarson9137, Correct! Bears dont attack you, until they DO. Failing to be prepared is preparing to fail.
@@tristantimothy1004
Hear, hear.
The grizzly vs black bear attacks across Canada are at 60% vs 40%. Probably because most people are too relaxed around black bears.
During the day most black bears have just ignored me, versus the grizzly that are usually at least watching me, but if I am still moving as the sun goes down they seem a lot more interested in me. On average. The cats always creep me out though, have seen a few show themselves in the distance just as I am climbing into the truck.
There is a reason I do most of my off trail activities on crown land, the national parks are firearm free zones.
@@requited2568, Been through Canada a LOT over the decades. Alaska to Arizona runs. Loved it! Awesome people there & made many friends. Spent lots of times in your parks & wilderness areas. However, the last few years things changed. All for the worse. Initially we could bring our handguns through but they had to be sealed in a govt plastic bag & still sealed upon leaving Canada. Then NO handguns allowed at all. Then NO guns whatsoever. Peoples attitude changed too. NON for the better. Our phones didn't work & we couldnt get a canadian phone being non citizens. Lousy highway Alcan markers & getting lost was a nightmare. Your people thought it was real funny to intentionally misdirect us. Your major citys had turned into homeless shitholes. The only people who gave us correct info was your police. Our last trip North 5 years ago was a nightmare. Usually wed stop over for days at Laird Hot Springs but the govt had fenced it all off & set up check in gates & not even bearspray was allowed in, not even in our vehicles. There had been several fatal bear attacks there & NO methods of personal bear protection were allowed. Not even a hunting knife. WHAT HAPPENED to our beautiful CANADA??? That last experience was so bad we just quit going through. Staying in Alaska or flying across. Trudeau & his buddies really phucked your country up. Our gold mining friends were arrested way out in the middle of nowhere because they had anti bear shotguns on them. RCMP Helicopter flew over & saw them. They had to bury their bear shotguns outside of town to defend themselves in the bush & rebury them before coming back into town. They said your violent crime is skyrocketing & your laws do NOTHING about it. Granted, here in America its going that way too. The demonazies party of Satan is insuring that. I guess thats what happens when country goes Godless. Good is eliminated & EVIL rules.
Something I've noticed reading these stories about bear encounters and attacks. Seems like if the bear is aggressive bear spray doesn't work very often. But if the bear is more curious then it seems like bear spray works more effectively. Just something I've noticed.
Great podcast, awesome you include listener stories. One important thing you left out about bear spray is the wind 💨. If the wind is not right, you damn near screwed with just spray.
I believe this is the most overlooked problem with bear spray. When deploying bear spray in Wyoming, you’re screwed 75% of the time.
Ron , my hunting rifle is a ARMALITE AR 10 WITH A 20 ROUND MAG ,308. EIK A 180 OR 200 GRAIN ROUND.. DEER 150 OR LARGER DEPNDING ON DISTANCE. MAGIZINE 20 ROUND PEOPLE MIGHT THINK WHY SO MANY . BUT I ONLY HAVE CARRY ONE MAG. AND THAT LEAVES ROOM FOR OTHER GEAR .
Shot placement is king! .45-70 levergun.
There was this incident about 20 years ago where a man hunting ducks with a shotgun ran into a bear and cubs. He had his dog with him. The bear turned around and was running away but suddenly decided to turn around and attack. Maybe it got pissed off for the dog barking at her or maybe she thought the dog was chasing her and the cubs. Anyway, she did turn around and attack. The hunter used his shotgun in the last minute about two yards away because the gun was naturally loaded with birdshot. The bear died in his feet. Don't underestimate the power of a 12ga shotgun at close range.
Question. When will a gun shot off deter a bear in itself?
@shelleypilcher3812 it can, yes. Especially if it's a bluff charge. But that doesn't always work on predatory animals.
For example, I was confronted by a mountain lion about a month ago that came into my coyote call at night (hunting with thermal and night vision). After yelling without any response or movement from the cat, I fired two warning shots that also didn't make the cat budge. If it would have taken one more step, I would have had to take it down, but thankfully it finally walked away. He was 27 yards away. I actually have that encounter recorded on the thermal I was using on my helmet mounted setup. Was a fun time.
I have read comments from people who live in outback Alaska and a 12 guage shotgun loaded with rifled slugs is their go to bear defense.
I watched a video on you tube where a dude shot a 12 guage slug 400 yards and it went through a 1/2" plyboard.
I visited an Alaskan Indian village called Icey Straight Point and when the Indians go into the forest, they take a dog with them.
@@HughButler-lb6zs That's what I used to carry. Winchester Defender 1300 loaded with rifled slugs. I've seen bear tracks several times on my hikes but luckily never ran into a beer. Nowdays I also carry a pepper spray and a whistle. I blow into the whistle every now and then to let the wildlife know I'm there.
Amen!
I have a Remington 870 Tactical Pump. I saw a You Tube video by a Cop and he told me something really important. I used to keep the shotgun fully loaded with 6 rounds of #00 Buckshot….not anymore. The compression from that spring will “Deform” your shot shell and it will not load. So, I unloaded my shotgun and damn, it was true, all of those rounds had mushroomed near the opening, not much, but enough to keep the round from being chambered…SO..only keep maybe 2 rounds but keep a side saddle with.6 more at the ready!
Flew into Alaska- Fairbanks to see our Son in the Army. We went hiking- I really wanted a rifle or shotgun but that was not gonna happen. As we hiked we filled our plastic water bottles with gravel and rattled them constantly. We had seen bears not far from our hiking area in Denali. One was feeding perhaps a mile away in a drainage, the other had attempted to leave that drainage and get into the uplands but had done an about face at the road. We got away with making lots of racket but I still felt "naked and afraid". Everywhere we hiked we talked, rattled and looked ahead. When you need a 12ga or .338 Win Mag a rattle or spray ain't gonna cut it. We were cautious and lucky throughout our trip.
629 44mag flat nose 300 gr on your knees best angle goes in the front and out the back continues praying!
I bought same gun it’s 629 deluxe 44mag with underwood 305gr hard cast ammo
It's an expensive solution.
Some people recommend 10 mm.
Do you still think others consider the .44 a powerful cartridge? Lol at that. It's no longer 1970. Move up to a real caliber.
@@eriklarson9137 Have you seen a S&W 500 in person? I have held one too. It has to be one of the most ridiculous firearms out there. It's as long as your thigh bone. If you told me it was 7 pounds, I'd believe you.
I've seen rangers carry it. It doesn't make sense to me.
@@thedalillama, Whats your life worth? I guarantee the cost will be the LAST thing youll be thinking of when the SHTF. Reloading is another option but the setup isnt cheap. Thats an ever changing science for the truly dedicated high volume guys. The 10mm is more than enough, especially in todays high volume magazines but again, one has to be dedicated & PRACTICE A LOT. Here in Alaska the 10mm is taking over because they work. Lighter, faster & more likely to be kept ON you. Too many cases of folks setting their rifles down just out of reach when the SHTF. A good backup pistol ON YOU is SOP.
As a retired cop we used pepper spray and you always get some back on you in a fight. I have to guess the same thing will happen during a bear attack & you’ll need to be prepared for that too.
A factor to consider in shooting a revolver is barrel rise and the time required to recover. A revolver might work well if the recovery time were not so great. Consider the Chiappa Rhino .357 Magnum revolver. Recoil is straight back and recovery time is minimal because it has so little barrel rise. The split seconds saved might save your life!
Ron, the 45 super you mentioned at some point isn't really a different cartridge, it's just souped up 45 acp brass with a crazy hot load. A sturdy weapon like a 1911, chambered in 45 acp, can fire it provided some stiffer springs and such. Check out the 450 SMC too.
I'm no expert, but I did a bunch of research for a grizzly television show I worked on in 2018. I can't find where I saved it, but this is essentially what I remember:
1. Bear bells and spray work well... When the bear isn't charging. In fact, every time they failed to stop the threat was when the bear was charging. The majority of times that guns failed is when they weren't even used but were present. Spray is good when bears are getting too close but aren't yet aggressive. A charging bear should be addressed with a firearm.
2. There is anecdotal evidence of 9mm and even 22lr successfully terminating bears, and anecdotal evidence of 10mm and 44 mag failing to do so, but these incidents statistically are outliers for larger bears especially. Based on tests performed on bear skulls and actual successful brown bear and polar bear kills, the optimum bear defense load for a handgun is at least a 200 grain, non expansive projectile going at least 1,200 fps. This makes sense when you realize that 44 Magnum and 454 Casull effortlessly meet this criteria and 10mm and certain 357 magnums barely achieve this. However, keep in mind that these specifications achieve penetration, not cavitation.
3. Virtually every rifle caliber is effective against bears, including 556. In fact, while doing my research I read an article about Scandinavian Polar bear hunter exclusively using AR 15s. The speed provided the penetration and cavitation necessary to achieve lethality, even in a massive white bear. Also, a failed shot can be quickly followed up by many more in the AR platform. Having said that, my dedicated bear gun is a 450 bushmaster, with 250 grain, 2,200 fps projectiles providing penetration and cavitation.
A 5.56 is really good. Its a light wieght round and what it lacks in knockdown it makes up for in velocity. A semi auto like an AR15 or Mini14 with a 30 round mag and extremely light tecoil means 5 rounds or more with very little off target time. And honestly i dont know what it is but they are loud. For a liggt grain round it causes a lot of cavitation and shock to tissue.
Its up in the air but between a 5.56 semi auto or a 45-70 lever if not hunting one, i think I would choose a 5.56. Simply I can put 5 shouts with a 5.56 as quick as I can fire 1 and work the lever or bolt and get back on target.
@@daveweed2765 That's a good point. A 556 with it's velocity, capacity, and cavitation would be good for defense.
Mine is 444 Marlin shooting 305 grain FPP.
45 70 600 grain solids 1200 fps work well
*You are correct about the 'bear spray' vs. well placed slugs--the well placed slugs are the best practice.* *Preserving human life is of prime import.*
Hey! He quoted my comment. It’s nearing spring here in Alaska and bears are starting to wake up and move around. I’ve hunted in Alaska for years and done multiple fly-in trips on Kodiak. I’ve been charged by a bear, but never had to shoot one. Most charges are false, but you never know when it’s the real deal! Transporting bear spray and cook stove fuel in floats is common. And many outfitters will have stock of fuel and spray that other hunters have left behind because they cannot fly home with it on commercial flights. You should contact your outfitter ahead of time to be sure. Love your channel! Thanks
Great discussion. Never dismissive. Always reasonable.
Love the timestamps
Get ANY military marksmanship manual. The least accurate firing podition is standing. Dropping to one knee is MORE ACCURATE and doesn't take a lot longer as your gun is coming up. Dropping prone on the ground is most accurate but of course less good at repositioning.
Use what you can shoot well
I can shot a .22 longrifle pistol very well. Fast and accurately. Don't think I will want to try and use it for bear defense, except as a last option.
I think you should say use the biggest caliber that you can shot well. In my case that would be the 45 Colt. It has light recoil and an excellent record of success.
@@thetexasratI'd rather a 22 over a can of aerosol seasoning...
Great advice. Screw what ballistics are needed to drop your intended target. Just think of your poor wrist. Wouldn't want to hurt yourself. Great advice!
The problem with the stats on the effectiveness of bear spray is that most of the incidences where it is deployed, were never going to be actual attacks. Deterring a curious bear can be done by many means, including spray, air horns, and simply yelling. Deterring a bear intend on actually attacking you is a different matter. Most of the accounts where spray is used in actual attacks do not end well. I carry a .357 in grizzly country and a 9mm in black bear country, both with heavy hard cast ammo, both in a custom chest holster. I carry spray too, but in any sudden and violent attack, my first reach will be for the handgun. It's also true that the noise from a gun shot is very likely to deter a bear, and that is a choice you already have in your hand. The simple fact is though, anytime you end up in a conflict with a bear, the outcome will never be certain. The best defense is to avoid the conflict if you can.
When it comes to bears, when you have to shoot, shoot and unload all rounds! don’t shoot to scare off. You don’t shoot to injure or scare.
I am from the Eastern Front in MT, on the Blackfeet Reservation just South East of GNP.
I have been around grizzlies my entire life, and in general a healthy respect will keep you safe. We are a ranching family and spend a lot of time in aspen and willow thickets just miserable thick with bear. It is my experience that bear are nowhere near as obnoxious as moose or mtn lions.
I know three people who have been mauled, including the bear fister himself (Chase Dellwo). Majority of those attacks were fright induced, with one being a claimed kill. There was even one on the east side of our ranch this last hunting season though no one was hurt. The bear did not survive.
We carry 12gauge Mossberg 500s when working in the brush. Loaded with rubber bear stoppers (non lethal, fwp supplied) and 3in mag slugs after. They are efficient and have detterred many bear before the slugs were even used. We also carry pistols, various calibers, and they perform well. You have to train.
Kentucky Ballistics has a video in simulated bear models with hand guns. Worth taking a look.
Spray does work, but it cannot be the only option. Where I live is hyper high winds and in general the spray will be displaced on a nasty day, but in many cases it has worked.
Dogs will bring bears back on you, there have been a few people mauled because their dog started crap with a sow. One I know of off hand that did not survive.
I carry a straight knife but not really for bears, though it would be a huge thing for me culturally to take a bear with a knife.
I chest rig carry while fishing, but luckily have never needed but, but I dont leave it.
Last thing, bears are fast, at ready it is a gamble to have a shot off in a short distance. Use a basketball being bounced one time at 30 feet, that is how the gov trappers told us to practice.
My ultimate advice, make enough noise, singing, talking loud etc is great for a hike. Hunting, stay vigilant. Go in groups, we hunt in pairs. When processing game, take turns, one stands gaurd (dinner bell bears are their own misery), and do not get it stuck in your head, you will do better if you are somewhere between cautious but not overly nervous. Dont run down hill, bears are still faster than you, dont run period.
I have been hiking, working, fishing, and hunting since I was 5 and have had close calls, been charged, huffed at, and bluffed, but I have never been jammed up.
There is no such thing as a shotgun, rifle or hand gun that is too powerful for bear protection. When you have literally been within the paws reach of the largest Grizzly Bear that I have ever seen, you gain a deep respect for how dangerous that animal really is. Predators do sometimes respect other Predators. If you are well armed and fearless, then you are also a predator. If you are afraid, then you ARE prey. Great respect with great caution goes a long way towards Bear protection. Enjoy the wilderness safety and live to see many more pleasant days.
Pepper gel. Does not diffuse like spray. Sabre home defence etc,
Btj - what an incredibly refreshing thing to hear from someone with a day-in, day-out, lifetime of experience behind what they say, and a wide perspective not clouded by a testosterone overload. Great info: much appreciated.
@@timmanion2197 Like those taking such risks have a reduced testosterone, as high testosterone is equated with calmness in stressful situations.
@@my_channel_44 FOX 5.3 or NEWER 1.4 .
For a 12 gauge bear defense, I would be confident in the Hornady SST Slugs. Them things are insane.
💯 %
Up here in Alaska the Brennikie Black Magic slugs are favored as THE favorite norm. Course, with all the new designs coming out we never had before its a hard call. Shotguns are basically cabin guns. The shells malfunction if they get wet or in high humidity unless theyve been weatherproofed. And getting wet up here is pretty normal.
Statistics is a power tool, just like a firearm. People with only a basic command of it tend to get a false sense of what the data really means. Suppose that bear spray works well on inquisitive bears, while not working on pissed off bears who are in existential "fight for its life" mode. Suppose you get 10 bear spray encounters, of which 8 involved curious bears, while 2 involved aggressive bears. Superficially this would look like bear spray was 80% effective, when in reality it's 100% effective on curious bears and 0% effective in aggressive charges. That's just one hypothetical example, a scenario of how this works. The "never shoot a bear" crowd tends to say "I've been camping in bear country all my life and never had problems". That's called "anecdotal evidence", it basically means nothing. I'm sure that every hiker/camper who was mauled to death could say that up until that point. But then, that one time that a bear decides to maul you is dramatic and painful enough, that I think it's worth considering it could happen. I've never used a fire extinguisher and I don't even know anyone who has. Does that mean we shouldn't have them? Incidentally, this same misuse of statistics was how the populace was misled during the past 4 years about the other thing that is "safe and effective".
Personally I'm a novice hunter, never hunted anything larger than a white tail deer. Never been in brown bear country, but hope to visit the West some time, one of the free states. Nothing against hunting bears, but probably wouldn't want to do it myself. Never would want to shoot a bear. But would have no reservations, if my life was at risk. With the full understanding that even a firearm is not a sure thing against them. I've been learning about this subject for several years, trying to figure out what I'd bring, setting it up, practicing and testing it.
People who think that bears are cute and harmless have not watched enough videos of bears eating an elk alive, starting from the arse. And have not read enough reports of how many people are mauled by bears.
Exactly! Statistics can be skewed. Hapens all the time.
15:27 Siberian natives used to do exactly that. They had a sort of a short glaive that could be used as a spear, as a machete, as a walking stick. Each ethnos got their own name for the same identical tool, and in Russian its known as "palma"
16:15 Regarding the section on bear spray, the problem for most people is that they simply don't know the mindset of the bear. Is it predatory, territorial, scared therefore in flight or fight mode, or is it bluffing, curious? Phil in AK, spent the last 45 years with these animals and knew that the bear circled around and was coming back for his group, a territorial attack, where the animal acted with similar intent to fighting a rival bear. This all points to the fact that if a bear is moving quickly toward you, a firearm should be the first option, not the 2nd. The guy who sprayed the bear in the nose from a few inches, seems to have known bear behavior very well and quickly / subliminally figured this wasn't predatory or territorial. In this case he did the right thing... like Phil did to the 3" away bear at the fishing spot. When a brown bear is curious, uncertain or submissive because the human is not acting like most creatures it comes across, it seems the pepper spray is a great dominance or even a training tool. However, when it comes to a bear that's moving quickly, the assumption should be that it's there to damage you, until proven otherwise. Of course, those who only carry spray because they're told it's effective are being done an injustice by the so-called experts.
Great discussion! I live in Oregon, but I spend a lot of time in the Idaho panhandle where I grew up. I bought a 1911 because I thought my 9mm C.C. handgun was inadequate for the frequent bear and moose encounters I have. Now have to reconsider. luckily, I haven't had to use either. Nothing is going to work if you can't get it in action fast enough. A one second draw is good for a professional shooter, while 2 is more likely for someone like me. An athlete can cover 10 yards/second, while a bear is almost twice that. In 2 secs., a bear can cover over 100 feet...I think I need some practice.😧
460 rowland or 10 mm are right near the top of my picks
Glock21 with the 460 conversion is awesome.
I have a Springfield Armory XD-45 converted to 460 Rowland. Love it.
Thanks Ron great presentation. Here in the north east we deal a lot w black bears and coyotes My friends and I usually carry pistols or heavy duty ruger revolvers. I'd like to see a show on the big cats of America I've seen a few cat attacks in the news recently. Keep up the great work. Happy trails.
I think interesting option that was not mentioned in video is also 357sig. Really powerful and very reliable.
Energy in the mid 500s to low 600s, it's a great round but 750-800ftlbs on 10mm.. SD will be slightly higher on a hot 10mm load sooooo yeah 10mm is the better round. I would put 357sig up there tho, it's a solid handgun round that's really putting the thump down on whatever it hits.
This is the topic that forced me to buy my first Handloader magazine back in about 2001. I was impressed with Brian Pearce's well researched article on the subject. It was common for gun writers prior to that point to brush off questions about bear protection from handguns and typically they would point out out that even the mighty 44 mag paled in comparison to a 30-30 rifle when it came to energy. But Pearce followed a line of logic I had been curious about for years. He eventually suggested a hard cast bullet from a reasonable caliber could penetrate to a bear's vitals and deter an an attack. I finally settled on a Taurus ultra lite in 45 colt with a 265 gr Cast Performance LBT style bullet at 850fps. Even though energy numbers are not high, it will penetrate 8 gallon size milk jugs of water. Somewhere through the years, I had heard a moderate velocity heavy bullet will pentrate deeper, possibly something I read from Elmer Keith, and this seems to back this up.
A Ruger Redhawk revolver chambered in 45 Colt, with Underwood Ammo's 250 grain Xtreme Penetrator rounds. It is a six shot revolver (Revolvers do not fail to extract or fail to feed, and they will still work if and when pressed into a bears ribs) which is plenty of ammo to get the job done. The 45 Colt also has light recoil for easy follow-up shots. Go to one knee and shot for the bear's brain.
@@thetexasrat Am a retired cop (Deputy Sheriff and Police Officer). Was forced not carry revolvers back in the day. I had three jam - all high quality, S&Ws (mods 28, 15, and 19). If / when my semi autos jam: tap-rack-back to battery. When my wheel guns jammed, it was: king's x, stop what I was doing, take gun to gunsmith, wait 2 to 7 days, go back to gunsmith, get gun, then - finally - back to battery. Revolvers can, and sometimes do, fail to feed, revolve or shoot. Anything mechanical can break.
I’m a Bears fan and can’t get enough of them…
every football season. I watched some incredible Bear attacks in the 1980s. You didn’t want to get between them and the quarterback.
Da Bears
My first line of bear defense is a bell. Like he said in the video you do not want to surprise a bear. They cant hear you coming very well in a noisy environment, like near a creek or river. I hike a ton in the woods of alaska and have yet to have a bear not run away as soon as they could hear me coming.
FYI, Ron: Shotgun minimum legal barrel length - 18”. 00 Buck shot is .33”. There are nine buck shot in a standard 2 3/4” 12 gauge shot shell.
If you dont use a firearm, either start or use bear spray. If you are proficient with a firearm, do not consider bear spray
You have to have bear spray on you, so you can use it for legal defense. The libtards will attack you for going to guns first. But if you had bear spray, you can say you used that first.
Thank you so much for an excellent video full of very good information. I have always enjoyed your videos, but this one is by far above the rest since it helps us be safer when in the wilderness.
Wish people would talk more about the 41 magnum...its a fantastic caliber for both hunting and protection
No need to ..41/ 44 are close enough to be considered the same , as far as effectiveness..41 is just a dead cal.
@@ChrisBoon-kq3en your crazy ...41 mag has significantly less recoil than a 44 and penetrates deeper than a 44...thats why smart hunters love the 41 mag... and it come close in energy ft lbs
@@ChrisBoon-kq3en its not a dead cartridge...it can make a resurgence like the 10mm did...once people stop goin off whats in style or what guns come out in certain movies and actually go out and test things...
Check it out 10 mm and 41 mag, Perry closes
@@davidbrenneman3581 with real full power 41 mag...its not even close at all...
Hey Ron, dogs and bears. I had a college buddy big hiker and he always took his dog with him, loose on hikes. This was in the 80's, he was in north eastern Idaho right near the Montana border. The dog was way out front, kinda before spray and he never carried. The dog was way ahead of him, then he heard a yelp and barking, it barking kept getting closer. The dog, a mix who probably was 120 lbs, he ran up behind him. Around the corner came a good sized black bear 🐻 running towards him and the dog. HE raised up his arms with his back pack in one arm, the dog barking alongside him. The bear stopped sniffed, then turned went back down the direction it had come from. The bear walking forward head turned looking back at him and his dog. From then on he had the dog on a long leash and he purchased a 6" barrel 357.
I like the 460 are the 500 Smith and Wesson the 500 will shoot a 300 GR bullet 2000 FPS that is as fast as a 45-70 will shoot a 300 GR bullet.
Yeah but can you control the recoil to reliably put rounds on target when it's a charging bear? That's a wholeeee Lotta recoil to deal with in a high panicked situation.
That 500 is a stupid gun to shoot and if you don’t crack your elbow it will shake your brains and eye balls so just bend your elbo and the will come straight back and it has a ported barrel . If you don’t bend your elbo you may only one shot and if have shot it a few times it’s not fun and you need ear protection with a tree in front ground of you and sound bounce from the tree right back at you and your ears will ring for a hour or two . So good luck with the 500 !
User, Still TROLLING! AGAIN showing your ignorance. The B.B. hardcasts are 430 grains @ 2300 fps. Thats over twice your statement. Almost 6000 fpe. And youve never shot a 460 or 500 in your life. Apparently never a bear loaded 45/70 either.
Thank you, great info! I am a firm believer in both the spray and a chest holstered semi-auto/revolver firearm. Have property in Eastern Tennessee that borders along the Cherokee National Forest about .8 miles from the AT. Encountered Black Bears out there and fortunately have not had to deploy any countermeasures yet, however did pop a round into a tree above the heads of 3 dogs that were barking and advancing on me when bushwacking out there. Was enough to scare them away and not have to use the spray. That stuff ain't cheap...
The problem with bear spray is it is only good under certain conditions. If there are two or more people in your party, one can try the bear spray while the other stands back, up-wind, and covers with a firearm. If you are alone it is a dangerous idea. Fine mist from the spay might get in your eyes and hamper you at a critical moment.
bear spray is only good for a bear that is not charging, which just so happens to be down wind. other than that it is useless and a waste of precious time.
@@thetexasrat that is very much not true. The main intended use for bear spray is to turn a charge. And if it happens to be charging from upwind you're still better off using it than not using it.
You're posting your opinion, which happens to be at odds with the advice given by bear researchers, state and provincial wildlife branches, wilderness park staff, and also at odds with the statistical record.
Unfortunately there's a lot of bias connected with how people see themselves and others i.e. redneck/treehugger and with the
politics of gun control. When a grizzly is charging you it doesn't give a crap about any of that.
For me, being in Canada, a handgun isn't permitted anyway. We can only transport handguns to and from a registered target shooting range and without stopping for gas or groceries along the way. We can't carry them in wilderness, and we have plenty of wildlife. I've never personally known anyone to carry a rifle or shotgun when not hunting, except rarely when we were doing forestry work in the era before bear spray. In that case we carried a short barrelled12 ga pump with pistol grip and with the warning that it might not stop a charge. Most of the time, even though it was grizzly country and we each worked our areas solo, we didn't carry anything other than our eyes, ears and common sense.
When I'm solo in my favorite area of the British Columbia fjord country bear spray is my only physical deterrent. Of course I do other things to minimize the risk of a surprise grizzly encounter in the first place.
There is a particular way of holding the bear spray in the left hand while supporting the right hand that holds the firearm with the left wrist In a cross technique where the right wrist is above the left wrist and the left hand is to the right of the firearm. In that way it is possible to attempt the bear spray but if it doesn't work almost immediately the firearm is available. I have practiced getting into this position quite a bit and firing in this position. We used to travel to Alaska frequently. I would carry a Sig 229 357 sig with hard cast bullets. Also an extended 17 round magazine. While holding the bear spray in the left hand facing toward the target, and supporting the shooting hand with the left wrist I was able to be on target most of the time from 25 yards. I considered that it would be likely I would only get off three shots initially. Therefore, in order to rely on the bear spray that bear would have to be further away than 20 yards otherwise I would have ditched it for the gun. Of course, I never had an incident where I had to use either so I can't tell you how it would have turned out. We are going to Alaska next year. If you don't hear back from me my method did not work.
Magnum Research BFR Bisley 5.5 inch 500 Linebaugh with 450 grain hardcast.
Very fine and informative video Ron!! Looking forward for more.
0 buck is 32 caliber, 00 buck is 33 caliber, 000 is 36 caliber
Great tactical training for bears. I want to train extensively for my camping/hiking in case I encounter bears who are not friendly.
12 ga Breneke KO slugs, or Federal Deep Penetrator, are what I rely upon in my pump. 357 for metal on meat.
I use the federals as well. My first round is a 2 shot nitro mags for a face shot that will blind them.
I have read numerous statements that bears have been seen rolling in and/or eating the residue of bear deterrent spray after it has been sprayed.
It was stated that they seem to be attracted to the flavor etc. As long as it is not airborne mist which is entering their mucous membrane areas in their nose, (and getting into their lungs), or in their eyes.
More GREAT CONTENT from the man! Thanks Ron!!!
Heck, grizzly country is safer than going into the habitat of the 2 legged pavement walkers
By far.....
If you have a gun. Watch Death Wish.
That's not saying much
The article Ron mentions on Ammo Land, has an updated article, “Handgun Defenses Against Bear Attacks - 170 Documented Incidents, 98% Effective.” In this article there are links to the earlier articles, the first 104, and the second 123. For each incident they list where and when it occurred. They also list what type of bear, what caliber was used, and the result. They also include information on each incident. For anyone interested this is a great source of information on the subject.
"now boy are you sure you can skin Griz?" "skin that one and i'll bring you another!! Jeremiah Johnson
Ron this is a good vid. When I'm in bear country I always carry an RPG . No problem.
I was stationed at Whitefish, Montana for two years in the U.S. Border Patrol. Part of my patrol area was a place called "Trail Creek" where the north fork of the Flathead River enters the U.S. There was a retired RCMP member who was assigned to Canadian Customs who, when he saw my vehicle, would cross over to visit. We invariably would end up talking about bears since he had been stationed on the west coast of British Columbia where they were in abundance. I remember asking him how many bears he had to dispatch in one year. (I thought that he would maybe say 5 or 6.) His answer was 36! As you might imagine he had many, many stories and when asked what weapon he chose he replied, "Remington 870 12 gauge" with 00 buckshot for both Black Bears and Grizzlies. Dogs and bears: Dog sees bear, bears runs off with dog in pursuit, bear changes his mind and chases dog, dog runs back to owner. Ooops.
@@thedalillama Catch a flight to Tijuana as the Biden Administration has very few Border Patrol on the Southern Border.
@@thedalillama, So whats your " friend" going to do once across? Cant get a vehicle to travel, cant get a phone unless your a proven canadian citizen. NO guns allowed at all. If caught the Canadians arent going to play around & unlike Biden illegals arent welcome & severely punished. The RCMP arent whimps whos hands are tied like our law enforcement is & they will severely kick your ass both before & in prison. Canadians have no right & a dictator president w NO Constitution or Bill of Right to ignore like the demonazies here are doing. Tell your " friend" hed be wise to get a passport first or just fly over Canada to wherever.
@@thedalillamawell unfortunately last thing we need is more illegals
I beat that. 43 in one year on the Queen Charlotte Islands. I do have some doubts about your rcmp member claim of 36 in one year, as during my career as a CO in many remote postings in B.C., CO’s rarely kill that many in one season. CO’s are the primary responders to bear complaints so I think I have the experience to speak to this issue.
@@thedalillamacross at Roxham Road and the RCMP will carry your bags and arrange for accommodation. You will be a Liberal voter forever.
My friend lives in the Fairbanks, AK. area and black bear attacks are more prevalent than grizzly attacks...
I purchased a 44 ruger from a bowhunter that gave up bowhunting because he was hunting with a buddy that was carrying the 44 to protect themselves from a bear attack he said he almost crapped himselve when a grizzly with a cub stod up on hind legs just a few yards down the trail, he whirled around to see if his buddy was aiming the ruger at the bear but he saw his buddys siloette in midair jumping over a log running away with the 44 in his holster. Unless you are stupid you will never count on someone else to protect you when confronted with a dangerous annimal because buddy might run instead of gun then you are done. 😢
11:21 as an alternative, if we hadn't been industrialized and didn't live in houses, what would our territory be?
Ruger has a 45acp. LC45 rifle. 16" barrel folding stock. Sounds good for anybody who is recoil sensitive with pistol
Marginally appropriate for black bear.
@@mtkoslowski The muzzle velocity of .45 ACP out of a 16" barrel makes it more than "marginally appropriate", esp. with the suggested hard casts.
@@lifeveteran9766
Off you go then.
Very informative and helpful. Loved the "spray no, handgun, no". Many thanks Ron. Love your first name.
I’ve been charged by a black bear in Kenai Fjords NP Alaska. All I had was a 50 cal muzzleloader so I was worthless. He came toward my buddy and I along the sea shore and I expected him to turn into the forest at any time. He never did. 😂 When he got 20 feet away he turned toward us and charged. My buddy had a 30-06 and shot the bear from the hip (no time to shoulder the weapon). His shot was deadly and we filled his tag.
I carry a TRR8 in 357. 8 shots. And they are Keith 170 grain hand loads hard cast. 13 grains of 2400.
.40 s&w shield with snake shot in the chamber, followed by 7 rounds of solid copper Fort Munition Tumble on impact. That’s my “fishing expedition” rig. After in countering a giant red diamond back rattle snake on cliff side with little evading options, I’ll always have snake shot coming out first.
Until it doesn't cycle on that snake shot when a grizzly is charging...
That's shit advice. I've yet to see "snake shot" reliably cycle.
Wrong!
Are YOU A ................DEMOCRAT ? LOL
There ARE semi-auto .357 mag pistols available also. Most ppl avoid these yet compare recoil ft.lbs of both and choose .. 4" barrelled .357 mag help and with recoil, target acquition. My choice is w/ .357 mag w/ 200 gr, hard-cast, flat nosed, Double Tap ammo and 2 shots practice weekly and now kneeling.
I was working 3rd shift when I was with my ex-wife. I let her pick the campground because I was sleeping. When we arrived at our campground in Mio, Michigan and the first thing we saw was a sign for bears. I didn't help pick the campground, so I didn't bring a gun. We decided to stay and set up the tent next to a pretty river. During the day, I had a saw and a knife, so I made us four spears, two four-foot spears, and two eight-foot spears for defense. I watched a lot of survival shows on TV and tempered them all in the fire because it makes them stronger. Three a.m. rolls around, and I woke up to something sniffing the tent but didn't hear any footfall.
I reached over and grabbed my wife's legg woke her up and told her something was out there. We listened to common sense and didn't have food in the tent. We both waited till four a.m. and booked it for the car after we were sure it was gone and slept in the car the rest of the night. I never camp without a gun now.
Hey Ron love your insites into all the hunting topics and range work with the different guns and calibers. Please dont quote me but i watched, i do belive he was native. He set up a bear target being towed by a sled and he shot it using different guns rounds and showed how hard it was to engage. BIG GRIZZLES CAN MOVE LIGHTING FAST BE PREPARD. It was very inlighting you might like it .
For those considering 12 gauge with OO buckshot loads. The OO buck pellet is 0.33" diameter, but it only weighs 55 grains, giving a Sectional Density of only .072 with a 1350 fps. NOT very good penetration thru the fur and skin of a bear, and then into the flesh. Probably not enough energy to break shoulder bones or damage spine.
A 12 gauge sabot load slug with 385 grains and 0.500" diameter has a sectional density of .220 and 1725 fps.
Lewis and Clark used spears as bear defense.
Also, bear spray is weaker than human pepper spray. The reason is bears have a much greater sense of smell and taste, so pepper spray could permanently harm the bear or possibly kill it.
In addition, you don’t spray a bear spray at the bears head. You spray it on the ground between you and the bear, forcing it to enter a cloud that expands to a great size.
Bear spray is the recommended solution by the forest service.
For me 40 cal with underwood flat nose 200gr for bear protection. Or 10mm.
Correct
I only got 800 fps with the .40 underwood 200 grain. The decision on whether to carry the .40 or the 10 was made that day.
Excellent presentation! Thank you so much. The only thing I have that’s close is my HK full size .45 ACP, 5 inch barrel, 10 rounds Buffalo Bore blunt nose .255 +P. Is good for chest holster but pretty big. (On a humorous note, if I miss I could try and beat it senseless with this large gun. )
Thanks again.
Steve
Pepper spray has to hit open eyes or nostrils to work. Its whole point is to inflame the mucous membranes. If you are just spritzing fur, it does nothing. It is also difficult to aim and use except at extreme close ranges. It’s a poor substitute for a gun.
FACTS!👍👍👍
I carry OC spray every day along with my handgun, so I'll always have the pepper spray as a backup. I wouldn't want to rely on it as the first line of defense against a bear. I once saw a brown bear on a road about 75 yds away while driving in a park and even then I was partially paralyzed with fear (26 years ago I didn't have spray or a gun). Humbling experience. I'd never risk spraying first and, if it failed, having the manual dexterity to switch to my gun.
In Montana the bears have learned that the bear bells mean FOOD
"dinner!"
16:20 I also heard that airhorns are fairly effective over mace.
My can of bear repellent says 454 casual on the side.
I personally prefer the 454 formal....find it to be a bit more distinguished
Excellent video! Learned a few things. 9mm and it's ammo, I would've never guessed! In Florida here and central west coast Florida (where I live), black bear make themselves known from time to time. "Never" had a problem with one but, you just never know!!! Subscribed too...
The best bear defense is a good offense.
comment in AK - Air Horns work
As always, very informative and to the point
The Masi warriors used to kill lions with spears but I imagine they would often get killed.
Apparently Indian Rajput would kill tigers with large daggers. I assume they would wear armor as well?
lions dont get as big as grizzly's
They also hunt in large groups... 100 spears is quite an advantage.
I really appreciate your seemingly unbiased information, Ron. Youre about as even keeled as anyone has access to. I try to be open minded about "bear spray", but it seems too unreliable, compared to a fast moving projectile. I recognize my own skewed opinion, as i have no experience with the spray, plus, ive never been attacked by a bear. And i grew up on a competitive shooting range. But ive listened to many podcasts about bear spray with mixed opinions. For me, id go with what i know works, every time
Best bet to reduce risk of bear attack is to avoid bears when they have been drinking alcohol. They tend to get a lot more aggressive after a few drinks plus are really bad tempered with the hangover the next day
it's even worse if the bear has been snorting cocaine.
ruclips.net/video/DuWEEKeJLMI/видео.html
Great channel. Grew up in Anchorage.
Subscribed!
What about a 6.5 Grendel SBR?
Or an AK?
No
I pack a 9mm wirh hardcast or my .357 with hardcast. During a drill i was limpwristing my 9 and got jammed. User error. Preventable but only through training like you said.
Living in Alaska, Air Horns Work,... Had Several Close Face Offs, Air Horn Made Them Run
David Paulides recently recommended Air Horn. Wondering if Shofar sound would also deter a bear?
could you recommend a particular size/brand? air horns come in different sizes.
@@glory5918 Walmart Soda Can Size Air Horn, Shofar 🕎✝️Takes Years of Practice, i Have one, Besides Easier to Carry🙏🏽
@@glory5918Only if the bear is living a sinful life.
@@mikuspalmislol