@@EzraTF2 i would not be suprised if i went back into the tf2 community in 10 years and see some wild theories that far exceed the ones i've come up with now
This video series may be one of the best spy movement guides out there. Concisely explaining people’s way of reaction, movement, and psychology then explaining how to respond with easy to understand explanations is incredible. Even after 1400 hours on spy, I’m still learning new stuff about the class. Thank you a lot for the video!
What an interesting way of thinking about and analyzing trickstabs. These abstract concepts are way more applicable and better to work into your playstyle than just "stairstab, matador, cornerstab, etc". Great video, I like seeing what spies nowadays can do.
I really appreciate (and I don't really know how I missed) this new improvement of the theories that come before. Spy theory is straight up literature now lmao. First time I hear someone actually talk about rhythm and tracking
Great tutorials here, one additional factor to determining enemy reaction time/rhythm that wasn't mentioned is ping/lerp. It can be good to look out for high ping players on the scoreboard, as they will inherently have higher reaction times due to the delay of information reaching their screen, and will be looking at a player model that's much further in the past.
u actually is one of the smartest tf2 players out there, i've never seen someone know so much about enemy movement and mindset, very well made video man
some people just do not think about what the enemy is thinking in other games so they think tf2 is the same time is passing and we learn that tf2 is a pshyhological game the more we play
Another tip for tracking: Most melees actually hit after a short delay (a fifth of a second). Players that aren't aware of this tend to go into passive tracking, because they think the melee is already going to hit. Meanwhile, Players that are aware tend to go into active tracking, because they want to make sure the delayed hit lines up with your hitbox. Spy knives are the only melee exception, where they have no programmed delay between clicking the attack bind and actually stabbing. Take time to assess the opponent and see their experience before going in for a stab.
this is a subject that should be talked about much earlier in the tf2 years the tracking is extremly important for the circle stab whole theory and this is the single channel that talks about this in particular so i have to thank you for leaking this information to the public so even new spies can become really good.
i understand most of the movement patterns, baiting, emotion, loose/tight stabs, prestabbing, mirroring etc from just playing 850 hours and watching frags, but have never thought about tracking before this. i think that will make the most difference in my gameplay by far, since it ties into stuff I have intuition for but never really correlated with how people track you (especially the active/passive categorization), even though it instantly made sense when you explained it. gonna hop on after finals and see what i can pull off
I've been waiting for this, the clips were pretty much all from your teachings in the first video, I had some understanding, but having everything explained and becoming capable of consciously thinking stuff through has been a great help (: Also thanks for the review on the clips I really spent too much time thinking about how I could've gotten the pyro that just held w into the wall, good to know sometimes it be like that. And looking back at some more of my clips I should be using my jump of a ledge as a sort of strafe and commit to that direction before changing I don't do that enough that's also a great tip!
@@Browhy766 you were moving to rhythm really well, i was wondering if you did it because of part 1, nice to see that confirmed (; if you learned that much from part 1 then i wonder what you'll be capable of after this video
@lieuty I'd always had an inkling for rhythm, but when explained it was like a revelation. It blew my mind to finally be aware of what I was doing. Hopefully I have enough time before my UNI begins again to practice and apply the things from this video!
I always enjoy watching your videos. My spy teacher. I have repeatedly watched the video you posted about spies for the past six months, and as a result of giving myself feedback, I now fully understand it
This is a well made video. I’ve always played Spy based on intuition from hours and hours of trial and error. Getting to the point where you can use your own movement to alter another player’s, or just instinctively do these things, isn’t easy. Well put
This video has changed my game, I've gotten my first 7k chain (dogwater, don't ask), 2 4ks, confidence has skyrocketed, my movement feels cleaner. All this in only 2 days after this vid came out. Stuff that's helped the most: Head-fakes, once you can perform them well, they just work. The best part is that they work against all skill levels (I fall for them too). What also works is Mirroring the enemy, and timing your stabs to their rhythm. Next, spinning works wonders. Really looking at the enemies movement and thinking of ways to manipulate it. For chaining, the best thing is to switch "targets" (preferably ones behind you). Keep on moving, and using the environment. Sorry for the many comments lieut
nice to know my thought experiments and experience make people really good at spy, keep it up, might do a video on the ambassador since i have some theories on it (:
just got a rlly clean 6k. Deffo do that!!! Also a thought: confidence and mentality could be good topic to talk about, since Slurgi's (manipulation in motion) vids are outdated af. PSA: talk about tilt, since i know lots of spy mains tilt a lot. stay safe
Good video. I would like to see a sort of renaissance of new good tf2 players. These tutorials should help a ton in helping people understand spy, regarding how to fight him/be him. If you really want to save tf2, this is how you do it.
@@Illuminati42 they are long, but the information is pretty interesting. (im still not gonna fucking note down if someones a level 4.69 in the heat of a chainstab)
This is stupid idea because: 1. Your hands immediately get dirty. 2. To get back into chair you need consistent sitting position with elite relaxed confidence and optimal mouse glide across entire range. Getting into it takes 2-5 minutes. If you don’t, you miss on lots of performance. Reached top 0,1% in Kovaak’s task with this knowledge.
@@demoman5864 I clean my floor xd. The comfort and steadiness of your moves is important beyond aim, it affects psychologically when you are making decisions. Would you play aggressive against multiple enemies with legs not supported properly? Emotional pressure would create movement wiggles for such setup, that wouldn’t happen with steady support of body.
@@lieuty Keep it coming, I'm learning some stuff here. Though I had some idea about what I was doing in game. I could never really put it into words, so im thankful you did that for me + more xd. I was originally gonna send in a 4 chain where i do circle strafe stabs, since you were saying css is trash essentially. I learned css as the first basis to how movement works and I dont think its unnecessary to learn. I do agree tho its goofy to only rely on that for chaining , I try to incorporate instinct and css into my playstyle. Might send that clip when im back home, oh well until then keep the great stuff up. You really took it to 💯 with your commentary.
It's gonna be a pain in the ass having to understand this type of movement. I don't really get chains per say, I'm usually really good at countering movement in general tho. I've gone against a few spies that have this sort of movement, and its a pain to bait them for a stab. My movement against spies in general is defensive and more passive than active unlike how I am with the other classes
Love the video. Can you make a video explaining how the twitchstrafe works? It's basically a sidestab with head movements before the sidestab properly, right? It works against passive tracking players?
@@Mortaall1 twitching a strafe, you strafe around, use the other strafe key for a brief instant, then go back to the normal strafe, its keeps the enemy passively tracking you
@@Mortaall1 ig, but the thing with twitchstrafing is that you're intending to go around someone but you fake them out with a twitch in your movement, so they think you're gonna go to the other side or they think you're switching strafes in a general direction, you can twitch it as much as you want
@@lieuty yeah, also yeah I ignore the box collision in each map because idk how to check lol, and like I am not going to each map on a private server, ill go watch the vid though.
Sadly i have to say the second episode came off less clean and wordy. Especially the categorising about active tracking/passive tracking can be misleading, when it was used describing mouse/key maneuver. Active meas active mouse input rotate player model in a fast pace, and passive means the lack of mouse input being passive vise using keyboard strafe to pre adjuste camera ahead of where the action will be. Confusion being "passive tracking" can be seen as very active like aggressive AD spam strafe or leading strafe a spy would do (twitching giggle you featured as). All in all active/passive being descriptive is not suitable as noun
passive and active have to be intuited for the most part, passive tracking is passive tracking because you can counter a player moving his mouse like that faster and more consistently by going around him in a way than try to switch strafes to rhythm evenly, vice versa for active. i was thinking about using undertracking and overtracking but you i had done some thought experiments and guessed that you can matador someone trying to undertrack you to a slow rhythm and you could still get a matador if the player moves his mouse enough, i also thought about a player overtracking you to a high rhythm and you would still be better off going around them because they arent moving their mouse enough for a matador. This is why i came to active and passive tracking
can you PLEASE tell me the server your playing on at 4:27, i used to play it a while ago and it was really fun but i cant find it anywhere anymore and wanna use it for practice
you talked about them fearing you and feeling safe that there going to kill you what do you think works best I see like high tier spys use the gibus but I also sometimes see an unusal being used what do you think is best
@@FaNcY_cL0wNn if the enemy fears you then they will try to keep their distance and passively track you, you can make them feel safe with a gibus or using bait, you kind of have to change their emotion unless you can catch up to the enemy
In contrary advise would make about sperate the two, appearance and perception. Away from cosmetical deceitfulness reliant, knowing you had little agency to non how opponent perceived you. Whether they had no hat mod or not prejudice left their guard down or not. Instead use your personal ingame performance/action to speak for your threat level, don't let clothing game distract you from more importantly concrete skill practice.
Pretry useful video both in my learning two play and counter spies but it’s kinda disheartening that the feedback on backstabs is super bad (which I guess, yeah, learn two intuit where they’re facing but still), and the sheer amount of effective health you get just makes it feel riskless, like not even a random melee crit can kill you (and people tend two be very predictable in melee anyhow)
@@Jmiriiiii Oops, It turns out that I never knew what was the lowest Lerp possible. I won't delete this comment (cuz I'm not a coward) but yes, I made a mistake. Sorry
![[Lost Ark]1640 SE Wild Soul - Thaemine Hard Gate 1-3](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZMxegOemyDY/mqdefault.jpg)
Finally… my old man brain can understand new gen movement. Thank you Lieuty 8)
@@MOOtf2 fr fr no cap
Spy theory keeps evolving with or without us. I fear I might be left behind 😅
@@EzraTF2 i would not be suprised if i went back into the tf2 community in 10 years and see some wild theories that far exceed the ones i've come up with now
This video series may be one of the best spy movement guides out there. Concisely explaining people’s way of reaction, movement, and psychology then explaining how to respond with easy to understand explanations is incredible. Even after 1400 hours on spy, I’m still learning new stuff about the class. Thank you a lot for the video!
What an interesting way of thinking about and analyzing trickstabs. These abstract concepts are way more applicable and better to work into your playstyle than just "stairstab, matador, cornerstab, etc". Great video, I like seeing what spies nowadays can do.
We got a new strafestab tech before GTA VI
I really appreciate (and I don't really know how I missed) this new improvement of the theories that come before. Spy theory is straight up literature now lmao. First time I hear someone actually talk about rhythm and tracking
Great tutorials here, one additional factor to determining enemy reaction time/rhythm that wasn't mentioned is ping/lerp. It can be good to look out for high ping players on the scoreboard, as they will inherently have higher reaction times due to the delay of information reaching their screen, and will be looking at a player model that's much further in the past.
u actually is one of the smartest tf2 players out there, i've never seen someone know so much about enemy movement and mindset, very well made video man
some people just do not think about what the enemy is thinking in other games so they think tf2 is the same
time is passing and we learn that tf2 is a pshyhological game the more we play
Its the first good video about trickstabbing, other youtubers basically say "if you want to trickstab just trickstab". Thank you for video
Another tip for tracking: Most melees actually hit after a short delay (a fifth of a second). Players that aren't aware of this tend to go into passive tracking, because they think the melee is already going to hit. Meanwhile, Players that are aware tend to go into active tracking, because they want to make sure the delayed hit lines up with your hitbox. Spy knives are the only melee exception, where they have no programmed delay between clicking the attack bind and actually stabbing.
Take time to assess the opponent and see their experience before going in for a stab.
this is a subject that should be talked about much earlier in the tf2 years
the tracking is extremly important for the circle stab whole theory
and this is the single channel that talks about this in particular so i have to thank you for leaking this information to the public so even new spies can become really good.
I would love to see veteran comp players reacting to these vids. Very well made
@@creeproot nice to have you back man (:
i understand most of the movement patterns, baiting, emotion, loose/tight stabs, prestabbing, mirroring etc from just playing 850 hours and watching frags, but have never thought about tracking before this. i think that will make the most difference in my gameplay by far, since it ties into stuff I have intuition for but never really correlated with how people track you (especially the active/passive categorization), even though it instantly made sense when you explained it. gonna hop on after finals and see what i can pull off
@@bobth6095 intuition builds off of theory and theory builds off of intuition (:
Ive had part 1 on loop for the past day. This is even more helpful thanks bro
I've been waiting for this, the clips were pretty much all from your teachings in the first video, I had some understanding, but having everything explained and becoming capable of consciously thinking stuff through has been a great help (:
Also thanks for the review on the clips I really spent too much time thinking about how I could've gotten the pyro that just held w into the wall, good to know sometimes it be like that.
And looking back at some more of my clips I should be using my jump of a ledge as a sort of strafe and commit to that direction before changing I don't do that enough that's also a great tip!
@@Browhy766 you were moving to rhythm really well, i was wondering if you did it because of part 1, nice to see that confirmed (; if you learned that much from part 1 then i wonder what you'll be capable of after this video
@lieuty I'd always had an inkling for rhythm, but when explained it was like a revelation. It blew my mind to finally be aware of what I was doing.
Hopefully I have enough time before my UNI begins again to practice and apply the things from this video!
yooo
Bro brought up emotions 😭 good video man!!
Its actually crazy that you can tell how a player is going to move just by looking at them. The voice explains the play time as well
I always enjoy watching your videos. My spy teacher. I have repeatedly watched the video you posted about spies for the past six months, and as a result of giving myself feedback, I now fully understand it
Can't believe this video is free, amazing guide
I love not getting notifications, anyways. This and the other one is really useful! I appreciate you taking your time to teach the up-coming spies!
21:00 that clip kinda looks nostalgic although Ive never played these old games
This is a well made video. I’ve always played Spy based on intuition from hours and hours of trial and error. Getting to the point where you can use your own movement to alter another player’s, or just instinctively do these things, isn’t easy. Well put
This video has changed my game, I've gotten my first 7k chain (dogwater, don't ask), 2 4ks, confidence has skyrocketed, my movement feels cleaner. All this in only 2 days after this vid came out.
Stuff that's helped the most:
Head-fakes, once you can perform them well, they just work. The best part is that they work against all skill levels (I fall for them too).
What also works is Mirroring the enemy, and timing your stabs to their rhythm.
Next, spinning works wonders.
Really looking at the enemies movement and thinking of ways to manipulate it.
For chaining, the best thing is to switch "targets" (preferably ones behind you).
Keep on moving, and using the environment.
Sorry for the many comments lieut
nice to know my thought experiments and experience make people really good at spy, keep it up, might do a video on the ambassador since i have some theories on it (:
just got a rlly clean 6k.
Deffo do that!!!
Also a thought: confidence and mentality could be good topic to talk about, since Slurgi's (manipulation in motion) vids are outdated af.
PSA: talk about tilt, since i know lots of spy mains tilt a lot.
stay safe
@@rehab_herr this ^^ @lieuty
“Twitching” i usually use the term “tap matador” but its the same idea. I like that you included it
I like it
Bro really outsmarting enemies u so good at this.
really useful learned got my first matador after watching this video 👍🏼
good video. I've never played tf2 in my life
i got jumpscared by me at #5 9:25 good video
Good video. I would like to see a sort of renaissance of new good tf2 players. These tutorials should help a ton in helping people understand spy, regarding how to fight him/be him.
If you really want to save tf2, this is how you do it.
Been waiting to see what you have for part 2 :)
good stuff lieuty the years of work have rly paid off
ive had these ideas in my mind for the longest time
Thanks for your work. Keep doing what you doing!
1:19 No way, bizler, this guy's been banned off the server 30 times
unban me from the spy acad discord
chestnuts roasting on an open fire
Thanks for making these a normal length, I know you had much more to say.
hes beating the crd allegations
@@Illuminati42? Explain?
@@Jmiriiiii crd makes long tutorials; people were comparing this guy's tutorial to crd's
@@Illuminati42 they are long, but the information is pretty interesting. (im still not gonna fucking note down if someones a level 4.69 in the heat of a chainstab)
@@rehab_herr i did, just that i realised it was convoluted trivia that wasnt really important
This has helped me, thank you.
Good stuff lieuty this is amazing work
I have decided to do 3 push-ups every time i die from now on. Of course maining spy, I will be as strong as one-punch man within a few months.
Im doing this too sometimes :D
This is stupid idea because:
1. Your hands immediately get dirty.
2. To get back into chair you need consistent sitting position with elite relaxed confidence and optimal mouse glide across entire range. Getting into it takes 2-5 minutes. If you don’t, you miss on lots of performance. Reached top 0,1% in Kovaak’s task with this knowledge.
@@IrrationalDelusion
1: Why is your floor so dirty
2: I don't need to have god tier aim when I use a knife
@@demoman5864 I clean my floor xd. The comfort and steadiness of your moves is important beyond aim, it affects psychologically when you are making decisions. Would you play aggressive against multiple enemies with legs not supported properly? Emotional pressure would create movement wiggles for such setup, that wouldn’t happen with steady support of body.
@@IrrationalDelusionI suppose alternatively you could add them up and do them after a game ends.
14:42 bro was completely flabbergasted
stabber, the spy. movement & action. lies & thievery.
high apm tutorial, rly interesting stuff
Intuition theory
p much, i've always had these theories in mind when i was playing
Tremendo trickstab
go to bed low
masterprice
really nice dude
Hey, love your content. What’s your sens / dpi? Thank you
Good song
What's your config?
🔥🔥🙏🏼
Ngl you cooked with this one i think
tnx, dw tho, im still cooking a few things up (;
@@lieuty Keep it coming, I'm learning some stuff here. Though I had some idea about what I was doing in game. I could never really put it into words, so im thankful you did that for me + more xd. I was originally gonna send in a 4 chain where i do circle strafe stabs, since you were saying css is trash essentially. I learned css as the first basis to how movement works and I dont think its unnecessary to learn. I do agree tho its goofy to only rely on that for chaining , I try to incorporate instinct and css into my playstyle. Might send that clip when im back home, oh well until then keep the great stuff up. You really took it to 💯 with your commentary.
@@exless198 i dont like css that much but if it helps combining it with my tuts then its all good
this hurts my brain
So is there a way to specifically counter passive and active mov
@@jacobcampbell797 its in part 1, but you should focus on someones tracking patterns first before you focus on the movement patterns
can you tell me how to make the same killing sound? 17:06
It's gonna be a pain in the ass having to understand this type of movement. I don't really get chains per say, I'm usually really good at countering movement in general tho. I've gone against a few spies that have this sort of movement, and its a pain to bait them for a stab. My movement against spies in general is defensive and more passive than active unlike how I am with the other classes
youre lucky that you have these two tutorials, there are tutorials people follow that are 5 hours in length
@@lieuty those are the ones I'm talking about lol. I watched crd and have a decent understanding of the levels
Love the video. Can you make a video explaining how the twitchstrafe works? It's basically a sidestab with head movements before the sidestab properly, right? It works against passive tracking players?
@@Mortaall1 twitching a strafe, you strafe around, use the other strafe key for a brief instant, then go back to the normal strafe, its keeps the enemy passively tracking you
@@lieuty Looks like a matador stab with "3 layers".
@@Mortaall1 ig, but the thing with twitchstrafing is that you're intending to go around someone but you fake them out with a twitch in your movement, so they think you're gonna go to the other side or they think you're switching strafes in a general direction, you can twitch it as much as you want
@@lieuty Ahhh, I see. It's like a fake strafe.
@@Mortaall1 yep
el nino, very good
made it into a lieuty vid life complete 1:22 (im in chat)
Crazy
@@tf2juice is this what you wanted for tracking and movement patterns?
@@lieuty yeah, also yeah I ignore the box collision in each map because idk how to check lol, and like I am not going to each map on a private server, ill go watch the vid though.
@@tf2juice map is built on a map grid in the hammer editor, collision hull is aligned the same way on nearly every map the same as the map is
@@lieuty like corners of buildings?
@@tf2juice yes
Sadly i have to say the second episode came off less clean and wordy.
Especially the categorising about active tracking/passive tracking can be misleading, when it was used describing mouse/key maneuver.
Active meas active mouse input rotate player model in a fast pace, and passive means the lack of mouse input being passive vise using keyboard strafe to pre adjuste camera ahead of where the action will be.
Confusion being "passive tracking" can be seen as very active like aggressive AD spam strafe or leading strafe a spy would do (twitching giggle you featured as).
All in all active/passive being descriptive is not suitable as noun
passive and active have to be intuited for the most part, passive tracking is passive tracking because you can counter a player moving his mouse like that faster and more consistently by going around him in a way than try to switch strafes to rhythm evenly, vice versa for active. i was thinking about using undertracking and overtracking but you i had done some thought experiments and guessed that you can matador someone trying to undertrack you to a slow rhythm and you could still get a matador if the player moves his mouse enough, i also thought about a player overtracking you to a high rhythm and you would still be better off going around them because they arent moving their mouse enough for a matador. This is why i came to active and passive tracking
@@lieuty yeah the interaction is there, just a little picky with word
@@ammi5311 fair enough
I don't think this worked for me, everytime i "trickstab" someone i get called a slur, that wasn't in the video!!!
I can't find the spy academy servers
can you PLEASE tell me the server your playing on at 4:27, i used to play it a while ago and it was really fun but i cant find it anywhere anymore and wanna use it for practice
tr_spy spy academy
@@lieuty thank u v much
you talked about them fearing you and feeling safe that there going to kill you what do you think works best I see like high tier spys use the gibus but I also sometimes see an unusal being used what do you think is best
@@FaNcY_cL0wNn gibus, its better if the enemy feels safe around you most of the time
@@lieuty but would you get better if your always trickstabing people that don't feel safe around you ?
@@FaNcY_cL0wNn if the enemy fears you then they will try to keep their distance and passively track you, you can make them feel safe with a gibus or using bait, you kind of have to change their emotion unless you can catch up to the enemy
@@lieuty I get yeah thanks man ;)
In contrary advise would make about sperate the two, appearance and perception.
Away from cosmetical deceitfulness reliant, knowing you had little agency to non how opponent perceived you.
Whether they had no hat mod or not prejudice left their guard down or not.
Instead use your personal ingame performance/action to speak for your threat level, don't let clothing game distract you from more importantly concrete skill practice.
cantt find the spy academy server
Yoo I got in the vid!
Im eager for the content
will there be a part 3? part 4?
@@Illuminati42 unless there is something important actually missing from part 1 and 2 then no
@@lieutySurf stabs and aerials, or other niche stab setups 8)
@@MOOtf2 i would need to be doing those things consistently to make feature length tutorials on them 8)
0:53 wth
Make this video $9.99 😂
How to access the spy academy servers?
tr_spy in the map filter
@@lieuty thanks man!
circle strafing better
Pretry useful video both in my learning two play and counter spies but it’s kinda disheartening that the feedback on backstabs is super bad (which I guess, yeah, learn two intuit where they’re facing but still), and the sheer amount of effective health you get just makes it feel riskless, like not even a random melee crit can kill you (and people tend two be very predictable in melee anyhow)
@@june9914 what in the megascatterbomb glazer
@@chrouu me and msb are unrelated, we just both happened two think the kiwi kiwi pfp was good
i still dont get it
@@wiron56 wdym
15.2 lerp btw (it's a good vid but cmon man)
??
@@macioeus 15.2 is the prefered lerp for spy??
@@Jmiriiiii Oops, It turns out that I never knew what was the lowest Lerp possible. I won't delete this comment (cuz I'm not a coward) but yes, I made a mistake. Sorry
@@macioeus yeah after a certain point 0 lerp was removed
HOW ARE U SO BAD XDDD
Huh?
😢
YAY PART TWO