This should reinforce the fact that the engine monitor is not just for leaning as many pilots use it for.. Scan it often, and pay attention to anomalies! Great vid Eric! Thanks for sharing!!
I appreciate that you posted this video. I believe you did the correct thing which is to continue back to the airport from which you came. I also agree that keeping the engine running is best because it was producing power. I would leave it running until fully loss power, unless it was such a distraction that it needed to be caged. What I found interesting about the situation is that it was subtle enough to not immediately catch anyone’s attention. Then taxing back for departure it seems all is well. Confounding. The lesson is knowing your airplane in and out, which means fly it often. Know all the normal parameters and be vigilant as to when they depart from norms. Doing these things will save the piston pilot.
Hi Eric, As a current 15 year Aerostar owner/pilot/A&P mechanic I thoroughly enjoyed the video. I think you presented the various pro's and con's as the situation developed and explained the options well. I don't know what the right way to handle that situation is, but I'm pretty sure if I was in that situation, I would probably have done the same as you did. With an engine that is still putting out power and not that far away from home base where all the maintenance is, it's hard not to return home. My understanding is that the 700 flys better on one engine than most singles do. IMHO having an engine analyzer is a must for any general aviation piston airplane. There is just so much information that is presented by that instrument which I personally don't ever wish to be without. It sure is better than flying along with only basic engine information----dumb, fat, and happy. My Aerostar is NA, but still a dream to fly......a dream come true. Ted Smith knew what he was doing back then. Thanks again for the video. Sincerely, Skip Dykema Fort Lauderdale, Sebring (KSEF)
That was good content Eric! This is a tough call. Key point, still developing power, no vibrations, no physical signs, just the cylinder head temp on #4 going haywire. You don't know if there is a cylinder issue or gage? Good plan to cut the training short, and head for home where you have facilities/resources. Keep us informed as to the development(s) of this situation.
I wish digital engine monitors would track flight parameters and remember them - so that if at any time some parameter is wildly off - it should fire off giant warnings - especially multiple related parameters are affected. A single parameter being off could be a sensor failure. I used to fly an Aerostar with no per cylinder instrumentation but now at least I have a 6 cylinder EGT monitor. This kind of failure would have shown up in the EGT monitor as well with low EGTs from the cylinders not making power
I think the decision making was just fine. Engine was running fine, so the probability of an indication issue is always possible, but it was smart to return once you recognized something was off. I need one of those for my Mooney.
Never have used an analyzer, and do not know if a single cylinder sensor failure could also have been a culprit, since I last flew an Aerostar in 1996, but I think doing a precautionary landing was the right decision. Nice video!
Very nice video. Congratulations for the quantity of information. It’s interesting to see that although we have all these engine analysers with all the information, the reaction to this kind of data is always a bit late mainly due to the workload specially on take off. Very good video
That is a nice airplane and well equipped. Back in the 1980's I flew a Aerostar 601, there no monitors. I would have never seen each cylinder temps, and in this case I would have continue to fly the plane. The only issue is the difference in manifold pressure split on takeoff. With the engine monitor I would have cut the trip short and made an early landing. Aerostar's are a pilots dream for performance in speed, and flight controls, but not a good match with low time pilots, or currency. There were many changes to the later Aerostar for fuel quantity gauges, and better understanding of common fuel mismanagement related to double cross feed related to very thin wings and fuel tanks. There was a period of accidents of fuel exhaustion from mismanagement when there was still fuel onboard. My all time favorite is the Cessna 421 for all the true cabin class piston twins. I think Cessna systems are easier to operate and are built on idea of similar platform so that transition between models are easier. System knowledge carried between twins, turboprop, and jet.
land at the no facilities field and do some looking and self inspection and decide what to do from there. Was there vibration? is there a sensor for that? was oil consumption up? Did it require a lot of differential throttle to make power on the affected engine? Runup was normal?
An Aerostar landed at our FBO and had feathered the left engine. It quit in cruise flight. I removed the cowling, looked it over, I forget what the cause was but the pilot asked me what the TBO was. I replied "Now, but you're in luck, since they build these engines 7 miles from here and we can probably pick one up tomorrow." I don't know what to say about your case, but I guess the lesson is, "When in doubt, check it out."
He is definitely qualified. No matter how much experience you have, when you get into a new airplane with new avionics, it is a learning curve for sure.
Windshield anti ice. This is a glass plate with electric filaments which heat up to melt ice so you can see when landing in icing conditions. This aircraft is certified for flight into known icing conditions. FIKI. Best practice with a FIKI aircraft is to us it to get yourself out of icing conditions as quickly as possible. Its not there to stay in icing for a long period of time.
Partial power loss events are dangerous because sometimes it’s hard to tell how bad it is. You must recognise any thrust asymmetry because instrumentation alone won’t tell you. Manifold pressure is not a direct indication of engine power and can mislead you. EGT/TIT also don’t directly correlate with power. Piston twins need torque indicators, but I’m not aware of any such instrumentation that is available right now.
So true. Most people are not aware that you can have a completely dead cylinder yet still show full manifold pressure. BUT you are at least 1/6 down on hours power.
I feel for you! Happened to me in a 421. Cracked block flying home from transition training on a mid time engine. Just out of extensive pre-buy/annual. Ouch!
This should reinforce the fact that the engine monitor is not just for leaning as many pilots use it for.. Scan it often, and pay attention to anomalies! Great vid Eric! Thanks for sharing!!
This highlights the importance of an engine monitor.
I appreciate that you posted this video. I believe you did the correct thing which is to continue back to the airport from which you came. I also agree that keeping the engine running is best because it was producing power. I would leave it running until fully loss power, unless it was such a distraction that it needed to be caged. What I found interesting about the situation is that it was subtle enough to not immediately catch anyone’s attention. Then taxing back for departure it seems all is well. Confounding. The lesson is knowing your airplane in and out, which means fly it often. Know all the normal parameters and be vigilant as to when they depart from norms. Doing these things will save the piston pilot.
I wish I had an Aerostar so I could have that problem.
Hi Eric,
As a current 15 year Aerostar owner/pilot/A&P mechanic I thoroughly enjoyed the video. I think you presented the various pro's and con's as the situation developed and explained the options well. I don't know what the right way to handle that situation is, but I'm pretty sure if I was in that situation, I would probably have done the same as you did. With an engine that is still putting out power and not that far away from home base where all the maintenance is, it's hard not to return home. My understanding is that the 700 flys better on one engine than most singles do. IMHO having an engine analyzer is a must for any general aviation piston airplane. There is just so much information that is presented by that instrument which I personally don't ever wish to be without. It sure is better than flying along with only basic engine information----dumb, fat, and happy. My Aerostar is NA, but still a dream to fly......a dream come true. Ted Smith knew what he was doing back then. Thanks again for the video.
Sincerely,
Skip Dykema Fort Lauderdale, Sebring (KSEF)
That was good content Eric! This is a tough call. Key point, still developing power, no vibrations, no physical signs, just the cylinder head temp on #4 going haywire. You don't know if there is a cylinder issue or gage? Good plan to cut the training short, and head for home where you have facilities/resources. Keep us informed as to the development(s) of this situation.
I wish digital engine monitors would track flight parameters and remember them - so that if at any time some parameter is wildly off - it should fire off giant warnings - especially multiple related parameters are affected. A single parameter being off could be a sensor failure.
I used to fly an Aerostar with no per cylinder instrumentation but now at least I have a 6 cylinder EGT monitor. This kind of failure would have shown up in the EGT monitor as well with low EGTs from the cylinders not making power
Any engine pics would be nice. Looks like ya'll did the right thing and handled it appropriately.
I think the decision making was just fine. Engine was running fine, so the probability of an indication issue is always possible, but it was smart to return once you recognized something was off. I need one of those for my Mooney.
Great video Eric. These vintage machines are always talking to us……if we don’t listen, things can get really messy.
This is true. don't forget thee same engines are on new aircraft as well.
Never have used an analyzer, and do not know if a single cylinder sensor failure could also have been a culprit, since I last flew an Aerostar in 1996, but I think doing a precautionary landing was the right decision. Nice video!
Very nice video. Congratulations for the quantity of information. It’s interesting to see that although we have all these engine analysers with all the information, the reaction to this kind of data is always a bit late mainly due to the workload specially on take off. Very good video
That is a nice airplane and well equipped. Back in the 1980's I flew a Aerostar 601, there no monitors. I would have never seen each cylinder temps, and in this case I would have continue to fly the plane. The only issue is the difference in manifold pressure split on takeoff. With the engine monitor I would have cut the trip short and made an early landing. Aerostar's are a pilots dream for performance in speed, and flight controls, but not a good match with low time pilots, or currency. There were many changes to the later Aerostar for fuel quantity gauges, and better understanding of common fuel mismanagement related to double cross feed related to very thin wings and fuel tanks. There was a period of accidents of fuel exhaustion from mismanagement when there was still fuel onboard.
My all time favorite is the Cessna 421 for all the true cabin class piston twins. I think Cessna systems are easier to operate and are built on idea of similar platform so that transition between models are easier. System knowledge carried between twins, turboprop, and jet.
land at the no facilities field and do some looking and self inspection and decide what to do from there. Was there vibration? is there a sensor for that? was oil consumption up? Did it require a lot of differential throttle to make power on the affected engine? Runup was normal?
An Aerostar landed at our FBO and had feathered the left engine. It quit in cruise flight. I removed the cowling, looked it over, I forget what the cause was but the pilot asked me what the TBO was. I replied "Now, but you're in luck, since they build these engines 7 miles from here and we can probably pick one up tomorrow." I don't know what to say about your case, but I guess the lesson is, "When in doubt, check it out."
Learned a lot. Thanks for sharing. Probably would have made the same decision.
You did the right thing; I’m not sure the owner is qualified or competent in that aircraft, but I do know he is $50,000 poorer after that flight
He is definitely qualified. No matter how much experience you have, when you get into a new airplane with new avionics, it is a learning curve for sure.
What is that square that you see on the windshield and what is it for?
Windshield anti ice. This is a glass plate with electric filaments which heat up to melt ice so you can see when landing in icing conditions. This aircraft is certified for flight into known icing conditions. FIKI. Best practice with a FIKI aircraft is to us it to get yourself out of icing conditions as quickly as possible. Its not there to stay in icing for a long period of time.
Partial power loss events are dangerous because sometimes it’s hard to tell how bad it is. You must recognise any thrust asymmetry because instrumentation alone won’t tell you. Manifold pressure is not a direct indication of engine power and can mislead you. EGT/TIT also don’t directly correlate with power. Piston twins need torque indicators, but I’m not aware of any such instrumentation that is available right now.
So true. Most people are not aware that you can have a completely dead cylinder yet still show full manifold pressure. BUT you are at least 1/6 down on hours power.
Well the engine was still running good. I think the decision to go back was the right one.
Man thats a bummer. New owner and already needs an engine :(
It happens.
I feel for you! Happened to me in a 421. Cracked block flying home from transition training on a mid time engine. Just out of extensive pre-buy/annual. Ouch!
We own a Pa28 and first thing we did was install a jpi830, best piece of mind ever. To me insight are just too small and hard to read.
At the point of notice it of the engine problem I think I would have set the problem engine on zero thrust and left it running.