Should You Run Premium Gas In Your Motorcycle? Octane Explained | The Shop Manual
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2024
- Should You Run Premium Gas In Your Motorcycle? Octane Explained | The Shop Manual
Read more about gasoline: rvz.la/2SIgqic
What’s the best gas for your bike? Will a higher-octane gas make more power or get better mileage? In this episode of TSM, Ari explains octane ratings and what they mean for your bike’s motor. 
Авто/Мото
Read more about gasoline and other moto essentials on RevZilla's Common Tread: rvz.la/3lpDheI
Do ethanol vs no ethanol fuel please!!!
I’ve been burning 93 gas in my 38 year old goldwing, because I’ve been told that it has no ethanol. Ethanol is the cause of that green gunk that forms in the carbs over time and plugs the jets. Or so I believe. Is this incorrect?
@@caryd67 most gas these days is 10-15% ethanol. Which given the age of your Goldwing, might cause some problems. A bike that old should NOT be run on 85% ethanol because it WILL cause problem with the fuel system and engine. 93 octane is probably overkill, check the owners manual and see what Honda recommends. I would think regular would be fine, but I would probably be using midgrade if it were my bike.
Can airplane fuel improve performance??
@@franferrario7425 Absolutely NOT, avgas contains lead which will damage your engine. Jet fuel is kerosene based, much like diesel but cleaner. Jet fuel is also illegal to run in your car in most states.
I could listen to this guy talk technical anything about motorcycles all day. Very effective communicator!!!
I know! This guy is great! Can you believe motorcycle magazine had to fire him for snorting fireworks and his best friend for being his dealer? True story. Pass it on. Addiction is a disease. The poor guy.
zero11010 wait. What??
@@zero11010 lol sounds like you got something mixed up
@@zero11010 sorry, snorting fireworks?
Bless your hearts. He and Zach worked for Motorcyclist Magazine. Motorcycle magazine is nonsense. Snorting fireworks isn’t a thing but it is a loose reference to Ari’s recent firework mishap. Also, I doubt if they were fired, though, I have no idea why they left. Maybe one of them pulled a Clarkson and beat up a PA for getting their sandwich wrong.
i use hand sanitizer on my gsxr
ANIL: what a clean machine....
Granny’s corn squeezins works very well also!
I use pedal power..on my bicycle
All gixxer owners do 🙃.... loved my k5 and k8 though
It would be more of an issue if you used it in the gsxr.
That protein shake comparison is probably one of the best I have ever seen when it comes to describing how octane works.
Also, since bikes tend to get such good mileage, I tend to just run premium all the time anyway. At only 2-3 gallons a tank for me it's maybe $1-2 difference at most, so not that big of a deal to worry about for the potential benefits.
99 octane here in UK but very expensive. Good in winter because it degrades much slower than the higher ethonol fuels.
It may be dearer but when you calculate the loss in Mpg and lose of power it's still better to use better petrol.
I only use 93 octane in my Harley LiveWire. It seems to keep the plugs from fouling.
ive never had a fouled plug...of course I ride a Suzuki. You check the sparkplugs when you got the time to take it somewhat apart. Every 5 years at least.
@@iccus62 wooooooosssshhhhhh
@@iccus62 damn dude that flew right over your head 🤣🤣🤣
Lol live wire is an overpriced electric bike
@@tylercarrell lmfao ........some people e'h lol
Fun fact, in CANADA, Shell V Power and other premium grade fuels at SOME other stations contains NO ETHANOL. Lack of ethanol is a good thing and I for one prefer gasoline with no ethanol, especially prior to parking the bike for the winter.
Chevron 94 octane as well, which I run in my FZ-09
same reason I use premium at the gas station I usually fill up at. Only grade without ethanol.
definitely, ethanol is nasty shit that will decrease your vehicles lifetime. It’s not so bad if you run your machine constantly, but it only takes a few days for the ethanol to start pulling moisture out of the air, not to mention it struggles to stay in solution. Rusty fuel tanks aren’t a problem if your fuel tank is plastic. But letting your engine gulp water from the bottom of the tank is never a good look.
In Canada? Where I live in the US pretty much all of the gas stations around here offer a no ethanol option.
Same, glad you mentioned this. Regular is fine for regular season riding, but use premium for that final fill up, and also for the jerry can for the lawn equipment and other garage queens solely for the lack of ethanol
One of the other factors that motorcyclists have to live with is the fact that our gas tanks are relatively small. No matter what we purchase on the higher end, there will be a substantial amount of (most likely) lower grade fuel between the fuel nozzle and the gas station fuel pump. You won't be filling up with the fuel grade that you really want. When riding in a group, let your buddies fuel up first, as a courtesy. 😉
it is such a small amount lol
Hold on, do you have the same pump for different types of gasoline? Here in Italy you have one for normal and one for premium, same with diesel
@@diegolobianco1015 US typically uses one nozzle for for 3 different grades of gas(petrol), you push a button to close the octane grade you want. If diesel is offered it is it’s own separate nozzle on the opposite side of the pump. Many city areas don’t offer diesel because most all of our smaller city vehicles all run on gas, diesel gets offered when you go further out where people drive pickup trucks, or close to highways or interstates.
I run the first half gallon out on the ground before filling with premium. 🤔😂🤣
@@MoparOrNoCar-vm5ul great for the environment and wallet
It's amazing how many people refuse to believe the truth about octane ratings. Thanks for attempting to dispell these myths.
Now this is some High Octane content.... literally!
Wow whale
OMG wOw this is a good joke 👍🏿
Poorest gas I can buy in my area is 95. And Shell V Power Racing has "more than a 100 octanes". Actually I can remember leaded 86 being sold but it's gone from more than 20 years.
@@ovDarkness same here. only 95 and 98 and my bike should get 87
High octane gas also has anti-oxidents added, another benefit in addition to detergents. I'm a control engineer who's blended millions of barrels of gas and diesel for 31 years for Shell, Fina, Exxon-Mobil, Chevron-Texaco & PetroCanada. To my knowledge, we've never blended cheap, off-spec gas for the Quickie-Mart type of retailer. Every 50,000 barrel blend is on-spec, or reblended till it meets spec (Road Octane = (Motor Octane + Research Octane) / 2). Here in Canada, you can see a tanker from a big name refiner, filling the tanks of the "Super Save" gas station. The small retailers don't have their own refinery to make shit gas. They purchase on-spec gas from the big boys.
This
The ‘cheap’ gas or ‘unbranded’ gas is called Community gas and only meets the government minimum set in 1996 ( here in USA ), otherwise Shell, QT, Chevron…they have their own blends. Costco is interesting as they add their own additives at the delivery locations, thus boosting the ‘community’ gas up to the higher top-tier level stuff.
We use to use platformate in our refinery area trucks when low instead of heading to refinery gas stations. Platformate from platformures is high octane before blending.
teman apakah gas condensate bisa untuk bahan bakar motorcycle mohon jawaban saya dari Indonesia
An important thing to note is that modern engines have Knock sensors which detect if there is predetonation in the engine.
It’ll pull back timing to stop the predetonation to save the engine, but you’ll make substantially less power.
Running enough octane insures that the engine won’t be pulling timing so you’ll make more power, even if it can “technically” run on 87 safely.
Also, higher octane gasoline can be useful if the outside air is hot and if you plan on driving up long hills. Both of those situations cause the fuel to predetonate so a higher octane will be safer for the engine. Lean fuel mixtures with hot air and high altitude are likely to knock, and high engine loads cause knock too.
Driving uphill at a higher rpm is beneficial to prevent knock especially on turbocharged vehicles. Lugging the engine at 2000 rpm, flooring it, to try to make it up a hill can be dangerous.
Modern performance cars can usually run 87 these days safely if you dont get on the throttle to hard and too long, but all it takes is one sudden predetonation event to chunk a hole in your piston so run the highest octane you can if it’s recommended, especially if you drive hard.
Also, ethanol in gasoline isn’t as bad as everyone thinks. If you drive often to prevent water absorption and you have a modern vehicle with modern fuel lines there’s nothing to be afraid of. Ethanol increases octane for cheaper, and it also has a higher cooling capacity so it prevents knock further by lowering cylinder temps substantially. I’ve seen cars run e85 for over 100,000 km with no issues to the stock fuel systems, no oil dilution by ethanol, and no material degradation.
Ethanol is only really an issue on old vehicles and some specific new ones, so research it yourself, but “Ethanol bad” isn’t really true at all.
Also a side note, knock sensors do absolutely nothing to detect rod knock, like many people think. I’ve seen literally dozens of people think their engine is gonna blow because they have a knock sensor code.
I think you mis spoke about the knock sensor not being able to detect a rod knock, it will, but the knock sensor can't tell the cause of the knock so the engine ecu will retard ignition which does nothing to help a rod knock condition. You're quite right that a failed knock sensor won't make your engine blow unless ofcourse you buy a lower grade fuel than specified and then continue to hammer the throttle. ( ASE cert mastertech, 40 years experience)
I scrolled through to see if anyone had made this same point. I second the motion!
Here in the Rocky's, he also have 85 octane because the air is thinner and different atmospheric pressure at higher elevations and it will burn like 87 just fine, only costs a little less. My California in-laws were freaking out that gas stations didn't offer 87 and they thought their Toyota sienna was going to die if they used it lol.
I've had to explain this to so many people who put premium in their corolla.
But it makes more power and gets better mileage!!!
Me: Really? How many records of mileage do you have?
What?
Me: I bet you change your full synthetic oil every 3000 miles even though the manual says 10k miles and have never had it analyzed?
Of course, always every 3000 miles regardless! The oil was brownish black! What's analyzed?
Cars have a knock sensor and can adjust timing, so higher octane will get you better fuel economy in a car, but also ever so slightly more top end power. And, with more detergents, higher octane will also keep the engine cleaner. Not a bad idea, imo.
When the gas costs than the car you'd think they would figure it out, but , alas, NO!
@@ChrisJohn_444 : That ONLY comes into effect in engines that have a compression ratio that requires higher than "regular" octane, It allows them to run on regular at full throttle without damage, if you never use full throttle (many people don't), you will see no difference in fuel milage using one grade lower than recommended. Putting in half a tank of premium when very neer empty every five or so tankfuls of regular will provide all the 'cleaning' you need.
@@johndavidwolf4239 Not true. My mustang is tuned 87 octane from the factory, but gains hp with 93 in it. Also, I've tested it in regular driving, same kms, same route, same driving habits, renders better mpg. And, more cleaning additives, means better cleaning. You pay more for it, but you get more. The way the ecu compensates for lower octane is it pulls timing. With higher octane, it bumps timing, so it's more efficient and has slightly more output.
Started running exclusively Shell through my 2005 corroborated Harley after finding out they put more detergents than most other Top Tier stations. After a month of riding 75-100 miles a day and only using Shell my Harley was running noticeable better. Was able to do my first cold start in 10,000 miles without pulling out the choke.
Save yourself tons of money and just put in some chevron techron additive every 2000-4000 miles. Shell is a scam.
When I picked up my brand new BMW M3 years ago the dealer said "run it on Shell or you'll regret it". I lived near a shell and ran it on Shells most expensive gasoline and never had a problem. I've always used Shell since then on many high performance cars and bikes.
I run 93 in all my vehicles (2016 mustang gt, 2022 Honda cbr300r) because even thou it doesn't increase power on the cbr (it does increase power on the mustang gt) it does clean the cylinder better and helps keep the engine running good
You're wasting money, because the gas companies are lying to you. Federal law requires the gas companies to put the same additives and cleaners in all 3 grades. However, Federal law does not require them to *tell* you the cleaner is in all 3 grades.
I've come to learn the owners manual is very different than many other's and is not your typical crinkle it up and throw away instruction pamphlet...it is a Fukn life saver! Almost like a "How to for Dummies". Broken down instructions and detailed pictures... perfect for a guy like me. 🤘
2:33 "Swole Sauce", Jacked Juice, Lift Liquid, Bench Brew, Maxing Mixture
Muscle milk
oof, when he used a pic of my bike and called me out for putting 93 in it, it hurt a little lol
It may not be making more power, but your engine is clean, and that is half the battle. I have the same bike in my garage as well. With such a little tank, does it hurt to use premium gas?
only hurts your wallet.Waste of money really.
Lol im getting a cbr soon, first 2 fills are gonna be 93, i like putting premium in any vehicle i get for the first 1 or 2 fills to help clean it
No bikes ever calls for regular the lowest rated for a bike is mid grade, I put 91/93 in my bike no matter what think about it your only putting 3-4 gallons at most its not that much extra money your engine is gonna run cooler and despite what this asshole says you will get better gas mileage and your engine will last longer and yes if you can find fuel with mount ethanol it is better but in the states that’s kinda difficult
Honestly, this video didn't really make any difference to me though. My logic for now is that I've already run 86 grade fuel (minimum for the bike) for about 150 miles and now have some control data for performance. We'll see how the top tier 93 grade octane does for my CMX 500 which is basically the same engine as the CBR but tuned for lower end rev meaning a potentially higher compression.
It is about time someone (anyone!) mentioned that higher octane gas has more detergent!
Nice... I have a Toyota Corolla from 2006... been using only premium in it, and it’s 2021... took it a few months ago for inspection... the garage person said the engine is just as good as it was in 2006 :D
Meanwhile in a TW200....
*No more fuel*
*Has moonshine*
"That'll work"
Literally 😂 could piss in the tank and she’ll run
Damn it really I got a honda grom thinking i would do this one day...
I have a friend who ran 87 octane in his 2014 Street Glide for years. It knocked and pinged all the time but he insisted that was okay. It was, until he cracked a piston and ruined his motor! 😮
Always heard the HD bikes had to run premium fuel!
Isn't it depend on compression ratio when choosing fuel?
@@kensmith9334 Not true. Just looked in my Harley manual: says "use 87 octane or higher"
That's just Harley's shitty quality, not the grade of gas
@@esdeathchan4354 yes, and the compression ratio in a 2014 street glide is only 9:1; it is designed to run on regular 87 pump gas.
In Layman's terms; use whatever grade/octane fuel the vehicle was engineered for. Eliminating Ethanol from fuel would be a far better improvement than using a higher octane gas or any gas additive.
Another point not mentioned. I hauled fuel for a living. Just because the station brand is on the pump. Doesn't mean that brand name is in the ground. The refineries set the price at midnight. These prices go out to the haulers. They dispatch drivers to go the cheapest refineries. All refineries have a no brand fuel as well. Shells no brand for example is MOTILLA.
As mentioned below, you should also talk about ethanol content in gasoline. All if not most gasoline today is sold with ethanol in it. Then there’s Shell’s V-Power 91-octane gasoline with 0% ethanol. A mechanic recommended I fill my FZ-07 with Shell V-Power for winter storage. The FZ-07 normally uses 87 octane.
A fuel stabilizer will do the same thing for less money. Js
@@joew7897 Fuel stabilizer will not remove the 10% Ethanol already present in the fuel. The point is to use a fuel without Ethanol, because ethanol is hydrophillic and attracts water (will pull moisture from the air). That is exactly what you don't want to happen when you store your bike for months at a time.
@@joew7897 Is fuel stabilizer that cheap? This only cost about $1.50 in fuel if the 91 is 50 cents a gallon more than 87. Remember you will still have to fill your tank with the 3 gallons of 87 plus the stabilizer over just filling with 3 gallons of 91.
@@CraigSmith568 none ethanol fuel near me is dollar more per gallon over premium which is usually .60-80 cents more than regular. Not to mention the stabilizer bottle usually treat 15+ gallons. So for me having 3 bikes a 4 wheeler and a mower to winterize. Its considerably cheaper.
@@Andres-hv7kg no it doesn't remove nor did I say that it removed the ethanol. It does, like the name implies, stabilizes the fuel. Which includes fuels with ethanol. It stops it from absorbing water.
In the state of Minnesota, the regular gas and mid grade gas has ethanol in it. The only gas that has is ethanol free is the high octane stuff. I ride a 2018 GoldWing (which I know you love, and so do I) which calls for regular 87 octane and I will run it on trips if I'm going through gas quickly but won't put the regular ethanol crap in if I'm storing the bike. Thanks for the video!
I run regular 87 in my yamaha. But in October I start running 90 octane because at my gas station the 90 is ethanol free so there is no ethanol in my tank over the winter.
If you're paying for real dino juice, it's not a waste of money.
You are spot on and one of the few people I've heard that truly understands this. I've found all your videos to be that way. Thx.
There is one caveat to the octane thing. Some stations in certain states and provinces (I am currently in Canada) the do not have ethanol in their premium fuel. In those cases I always suggest running premium just to avoid the ethanol. I am in the fuel business myself, and we offer a no ethanol, super long life fuel. Anyhow, avoid ethanol at all costs in a motorcycle, especially if your bike will be sitting for more than a couple of months.
Here in the UK, there is another advantage to using the higher octane - it has 0-5% ethanol, compared to 5-10% in the lower grade. I always use it in my bikes, a 1978 Triumph T140V and a 1980 Suzuki GS550L. The Triumph was originally designed to run on high octane (98 on our rating system), so definitely benefits from this, and the Suzuki is probably better off with the lower ethanol. For the amount of fuel I use, it's worth the small extra cost.
I run Esso Supreme+ 99 - it's 0% ethanol (labelled as E5 legally, but actually E0). It's the only fuel in the UK that doesn't have ethanol. Not only does ethanol degrade performance, but over a prolonged period of time it damages engine components and seals. It also results in lower mpg.
My car is 2014 but the manufacturer specifically states cold starting and performance will be problematic on E10, and they are correct. I only run E0 in both the car and the bike. More cleaning additives as well, for what it's worth. Use a nectar card and the Esso app for 5p per litre off etc.
You guys don't have ethanol free options? Some of our fuel station's offer no ethanol it definitely helps fuel milage.
@@truckerman9836 Some of the E5, from some brands, has been tested and actually has zero ethanol, apparently, but they don't advertise it.
I only use 91 non-ethanol in everything but my daily drivers. I have a pickup truck I only drive every few weeks, my street bike, and all my power equipment. I still use a bit of Sta-Bil for winter storage, but it's nice knowing the alcohol will not attack the aluminum in everything.
You go to the pump and it has 1 hose with 3 selections you select 91 you can get up to a gallon of what the previous person purchased which is usually 87 and you end up paying 91 octane price for 87 fuel.
lol. who told you this? fake news...
I personally run ethanol free fuel. Think it’s usually 90 or 91. Keeps my TE 610 rippin around the mountains here in the McKenzie valley.🤙🏼
Thanks Ari! Been looking forward to a new shop manual!
i knew all of this aready, but you did a very good video. it was clear, concise, and understandable. im glad that you pointed out the differences of the European rating system versus the American one. a lot of people dont know this. however. i used to have an RX-7 with a Wankel and it would get around 2 mpg better fuel mileage with 93 versus 87. sometimes as high as 3 mpg. so it was worth the extra price. the car was more responsive because the plugs stayed cleaner and the fuel burned better because of the higher spark. again, thank you for making such a well done video. very professional.
i inherited my grandfathers 2001 holden ute (ls1 powered) about a year ago. he owned it since new, mostly hwy driven and he never gave it a hard time while he used 91 (our lowest).
i couldnt get the black smoke to stop when i put my foot down, so i used 98 (premium) for a few tanks. After two weeks the car ran smoother and got better fuel economy on both 91 and 98.
i still run 91 but every 5th fill up ill use premium, i dont know how it works but its been worth it
Thanks for summing it up, Ari. As a non-native speaker having the privilege of running in a brand new bike, I watched the whole video a couple of times to make sure I understood every point. Much appreciated.
česko? dont be a fool and put just premium gasoline into your tank. the dude is speaking literaly bullshit. I ride bikes for 13 years now. even in 2008 the 100 octane allowed me to run my bike on lower RPM without slapping the chain. it run smoother. smoother is better for the whole engine and its bearings. and now with E10 bullshit, I can significant save fuel with 100 octane. the consumption goes down by 15-20% with premium fuel. no joke. the rubber parts of your fuel system will thank you too. never tank E10 or non premium shit. you can thank me later
Excellent video.
Octane ratings is one of the first things you get thought about at schools like UTI/MMI, but most people have no idea what it does and are often mislead into buying the wrong fuel by the “standard/mid/premium” stickers that all the pumps use.
The gas stations are counting on people not knowing the difference in an effort to up income.
Explains it so well.
Had a friend who had a car tuned for 93 and was running 87 randomly. Told him he's asking for trouble. Even showed him when computer was hooked up.
Fast forward two days later. BMW Flys by and he floors it. Loud ticking sound began. Bent rod lol.
You failed to mention that most high-performance motorcycle engines have knock sensors that will prevent damage from detonation by retarding the spark as necessary. If the detonation is caused by low-octane fuel, then using a higher octane may allow the engine to operate at full power. Also, detonation is not correlated with high rpm, but rather with high cylinder pressure, which produces high torque. On aircraft engines with controllable pitch propellers, suspected detonation is controlled by a selecting a richer mixture and a higher rpm setting.
I agree "exept" that it is not at a higher rpm settings, but at higher power settings, the issue with propeller aircraft engines is the tip of the propeller aproaching trasnsonic speed where the efficency goes to crap.
Great Advice! Matches my old Jeep book to a T. It advised that if knocking occurs on 87, switch to a 89 and so on if operating in warm, high elevation, dry environment- like Vegas. It worked perfectly on 89. Too bad the rest of the vehicle was junk.
Ari is the best! Definitely a good acquisition by Revzilla! They needed someone to compete with Bryan Van. Please keep the technical articles coming! I loved these from Ari back in the day when he was with the other RUclips channel. Let’s see him work on some stuff and do mechanic walk throughs/installs as well!
Thank you for saying who it was. Idk, maybe I missed that in the beginning. I couldn't match the voice to Zach, Spurg, Lemmy, etc. from listening to High Side / Low Side.
I run BP Ultimate 98 octane for my R1. Bike loves it !
I believe the first 1.25 gallons from a traditional fuel station pump is whatever was last pumped through it if its a 1 fuel line model. If its a 3 or 4 line model pump than it will pump the exact octane selected from the start.
Also note that 91 (low est octain fuels) can use other additives which cause waxing. Great for efi injectors as it improves lubrication properties in the fuel system. However for a bike that sits alot and carby bikes it blocks up jets, being a right pain. Highly advise running 95 or 98 fuels in those bikes before storage or to drain the fuel from the fuel system. Only run 95 and up in my cars and bikes. Note, for Australia.
Good video. Here in Australia I run my Indian Springfield on 98. In the USA 93 but Canada I found I needed to regularly use an Octane booster as the heavily loaded bike would ping especially when climbing. The octane boost was effective. I have not experienced this problem in Australia. I avoid ethanol but you don't always know what your fuel is so I prefer major brands. Cheers and thanks. Fuel is cheap. Pistons are not.
I'm a daily rider and I run top tier 91 just for the higher detergent and and especially so in the summer here in Northern California where ambient temps are well over 100F. It can run on 87 but the bike gets around 50 mpg, average fill up is 3-4 gallons so 90 cents to $1.20 more a fill up is worth it to me.
More people need to see this video, tired of listening to people at the track with stock engine's running race gas....
Loved this guy in "DJango Unchained"..... :-P
Ok. So I guess I'm not the only person that sees a resemblance.
I had a BMW 1150 gs that called for premium fuel and would still knock or ping at high altitudes with it. I was in Canada and got a tank of Husky 100 octane fuel and noticed a substantial gain in power, it would literally pick the front wheel up coming off the line where the 91 in the states would not. Also had the same experience with an RZ350 two stroke when running 100 octane cam 2 fuel. Now being a auto technician for 35 plus years new cars have what is called a detonation sensor the listens for detonation and reduces the ignition timing to correct it which decreases performance and fuel mileage. I run premium fuel in everything for one to keep it clean inside which like he said cuts down on carbon build up which will contribute to detonation. Also with adjustable ignition timing you can run it more advanced which improves performance. So at very least run what is recommended.
Not surprised. In Europe, petrol's very expensive by higher octane: 94 is standard, 98 premium. Any European engine (car or bike) will run smother with US “premium“ gas".
Fun fact....it takes 1.5 gallons of diesel to produce 1 gallon of ethanol.
This is from the tractors it takes to prepare the land, plant the corn, harvest the corn and process the corn....
Many ppl come to the garage saying their cars are good because they always use 93 octane, I try to explain but they say” oh but my father said/my friend….” I didn’t know that 10/8 years ago after hear about I start to check out and I forget what my thoughts were!
Nice video!
“Let’s open up the shop manual “ YESS!
Ari! My favorite host, keep killing it dude!
I use what the manufacturer recommends for my vehicles, no overthinking required.
I have done tests on 3 motor bikes 2018 xt 250, 2007 650 klr, 2015 650klr.
Non moded and increased all 3 by one liter less per 100km. Less ethanol in premium means less corrosion and less rubber cracking, stiff diaphragms ect.
My protein drinks are now referred to as "SWOLE SAUCE" from here on out. lol. Awesome as always, Ari.
I used to have a Honda motorcycle that was designed for 87. I would occasionally run 91 for the extra additives, but it definitely ran and sounded better on 87. Have also had to fill my air-cooled v-twin with 87, no big deal. Just stay off the throttle and be gentle.
I'm convinced that I ruined my Kawi 250cc by putting regular in it when it called for premium. I was being cheap and stupid and thought "Gas is gas, it'll be fine".
A few years of that and it started sounding like quarters rolling around in a tumble dryer. I lost power from the engine on the way home and it refused to go over 15mph. I took it into the mechanics, but they never found out what was wrong with it (I didn't tell them that I used 87 so they didn't think to check inside the cylinders).
Moral of the story: Don't 👏 cheap 👏 on 👏 the 👏 gas!!! I've got a Zx-6R now and I'm treating her right. 🏍
So glad your back in front of camera ! Missed you bro 🙌🏽
Funny how so many dudes is UK and EU think their gas is better because "bigger numbers" 🤣 Always have to explain to them that no, your gas isn't any higher octane, it's a different rating system.
The Europeans must be right though. They are so much smarter than us Americans. lol.
It does depend, though. In some European countries you can buy 100 or 102 Octane, which is the equivalent of 95 or 96.5 AKI. So it may be true that they have higher octane available, though nothing sold as a new bike in this country really needs it.
Yeah they were always talking about their 95 or 98 or whatever compared to out 91 and 93.
@Tyler Staton Nice for you that it is so close. We have various gas stations in CT that sell VP 110 racing fuel from the pump, though it must be pumped into gas cans and not into a vehicle. The VP 110 they sell is 110 octane low lead for $10 a gallon. Since I don't need 110, I buy the 100 LL from the airport for $5 a gallon. pure-gas.org has many locations that sell non-ethanol and high octane fuel.
93octane in usa is AKI* number..
However in certain country like japan and mine, there is RON100 pump gas available.. which is definately higher than 93octane AKI number...
93octane AKI is about RON97 or 98 rate... Which also often rated as premium gas almost everywhere...
*Correction
Would love to have this include non-ethanol octanes as well.
Real Gas Gets Better Fuel Mileage !
*This Guy...* He *EARNED* his *Subscribe!* Good stuff! Great introduction of base knowledge to build a better understanding of fuels and how they work. Now maybe folk will understand that tier1 and tier2 gas has nothing to do with octane rating because octane rating is called, grade; not tier. One tip: when putting away your bike or lawn equipment for the season and don't want to use fogging oil and stabilizers, at bare minimum, stall your bike by shutting off the fuel instead of using the kill switch or key. This will run the fuel out of the lines, bowls (if it's a carb), fuel rails, etc. and limit sludging and the corrosive effects of ethanol. Then, TOP OFF your tank to the filler neck with fuel before putting it away. The chemicals used to adjust the octane rating can evaporate quickly. By reducing the air in the gas tank, you reduce the effects of evaporation, hence, prevent octane rating loss. Simple practice of good habit goes a long way in protecting our tools and toys!
Also, a fully topped tank will not allow for 'temperature affect condensation'. Yeah, sciencey phrase for water in your gas.
you made it SUPER clear
Has anyone else ever wondered how much 87 you get out of the pump and lines when you click 93? There are separate tanks underground, how much volume of 87 do you buy before the tanks 93 reaches the pump? Half your motorcycle tank could be regular 87 before you actually get 93 out of the nozzle.
This has always been my thought exactly, I wish we knew!
The distribution valve is in the pump. It still probably amounts to a guart or so in the hose. It is an issue on my Benelli tnt135 due to the small tank. I do the math, the previous sale is on the pump, sale $ divided by gallons = $per gallon. I look for a hose full of premium. Or, use a pump that a motorcycle is using before me. It isn't an issue on my Moto Guzzi, it holds 5.5 gal.
On the average it’s .12 gallons. That’s taking the average length of a fuel pump hose and the average diameter of the hose and finding the volume. This isn’t spot on as some pumps may be a little longer and some may not be completely full of fuel, but it gives a pretty good idea of exactly how much fuel really isn’t being held in the pump from the last guy.
No, it's .312 gallons for the hose only. V=πr2h=π·0.442·120≈72.15846
Gets you cubic inches, then take that value and divide that by 231 and you get .312 gallons. That's ONLY what's in the visible hose and not including whatever is going on inside the pump, switching valves, pipes, filters etc...
@@El_Jaco It's more like a half gallon all considered. It's a big deal on bikes with small tanks.
My manual says 87 or higher…. And I will definitely say my bike seems to run smoother with 91-93, although that could just be my imagination too 😅 honestly as long as there aren’t any negative side effects of using the higher octane, the detergent benefits for giving some love to my engine internals are more than worth it. These bikes already get 80-150 miles per gallon. And my other ride is a Colorado that gets 20mpg…. So Personally the extra $0.50-$1.00/gal is more than worth it in my bike that I definitely ride harder. 🤷♂️
You are absolutely right. In addition you engine ECU will sense the difference in fuel by the O2 sensor and compensate. Therefore no power gains unless the engine is designed for high octane. Cheers
Not entirely. The o2 sensor won’t sense the higher octane. The knock sensors will. Running 87 in a performance engine will cause the knock sensors to pick up vibrations which tells the ECU to pull timing. That makes less power. By running higher octane fuel the ecu wont pull any timing.
You can see power gains by running high octane fuel in any engine that is currently pulling timing, which is surprisingly A LOT of them, because they run lean for better mileage. Hot weather, uphill roads, high altitude, beating on a car engine, can all cause knock even in engines designed to run on 87 and you’d see a benefit from running 91.
I don't have a motorcycle but I do drive a 370Z, with a high compression engine. Because of Nissan's adaptive ignition timing, I can run lower octane gas than what the engine was optimally designed for, 98 RON. In the US market, Nissan specs a 91 AKI gas as a minimum octane and it does run acceptably well. I now use a blend of Sunoco SS100 race gas and Shell V-Power Nitro 91 oct to get a blended average 93.25 oct, which the engine really likes.
All modern engines with knock sensors have adaptive ignition timing.
Thanks Ari, I learnt something today.... so thank you! I had a question, I have a classic motorcycle a 500cc Single cylinder Royal Enfield..... Could you make a video about carburettors? How to keep it healthy.... when to know its time to replace one, if damaged..... or more importantly how can one damage a carb unknowingly? Or just any tips for people who own classic motorcycles.
Just going to add my data point here:
I rode 400 miles from Kansas City to Illinois on a yamaha R3. I refueled 4 times, each time with different gas, and made a note of the average fuel economy in each segment in between gas stations.
In my experience, 87 octane gas produced significantly lower fuel mileage - both lower overall mpg and lower cruising speeds to maintain a good instantaneous mpg. 89 was decent on both front. 91 was better than the previous two, but 93 was by far the best and provided both great overall mpg and high cruising speeds while maintaining good instantaneous mpg.
@That Dude well yeah I guess so man, I'm just providing a single data point. One would have to collect a lot more to see if this trend holds true for motorcycles in general.
As the Yamaha R3 has a compression ratio of 11.2 : 1, it makes perfect sense that it would work best on 93 octane, my guess is that Yamaha recommends "premium". Typically the upper limit of compression ratio for 87 octane is 9.5 : 1.
@That Dude : As I don't have a copy of the manual, I can not challenge your assertion as to what it says, as you cite that it says "acceptable" does it have further wording to the effect of "for best performance a recommended octane of 92 advised"? By adding your "(pseudo)" you most certainly intended disrespect, it would be like calling someone an idiot, then following with "no disrespect intended", even a true idiot would know you were lying. I know of no one who clams that the R3 is a "true race bike", with that said it is a true "sport bike" in its displacement category. I see nothing wrong with a bike like the R3 requiring premium gas, the average rider is spending about 2 to 3 cents per mile in tires and the difference between regular and premium is only about 0.3 cents per mile.
I second that, i own a r25(smaller cc r3) and premium fuel does makes it run longer comparing side to side, i consume 10 litre of fuel everyday and i can tell the difference, it doesn't make it go faster, just better fuel economy.( my opinion, don't take it as a fact)
@That Dude : Just speaking for myself, in no way would I be "put off" by a bike that produces better that 1. hp per 10cc. reuqiring premium gas when it goes 0 to 60 in under 6 seconds and gets 50 MPG.
I once filled a full tank of premium into a suzuki boulevard designed to run on regular. The bike didn't want to ride, engine shut down on high revs. Had to empty the tank and fill up again with regular. Worked fine after that.. Learned a lesson for the years to go..
In EU we use premium gas in old carburated bikes and even lawnmovers not because of octane or power, but simply to avoid ethanol. For every cent you pay more at the gas station you spare an euro for ulrasound carbs cleaning.
My pushrod evo motorcycle engines would sound like glass was breaking in the cylinders when I used low grade fuel especially when I wanted to go faster. This problem resolved itself once I started using premium 93 octane gas. I felt smoother throttle response and a happier engine.
it's all in your mind man..
I've owned 4 90s EVO Motors and what he said is true. I only run 93 with no Ethanol or Wawa Rec90 with No Ethanol on old Harleys. See back in the 90s there was No Ethanol in gas until Bush JR introduced it to Gas in every gas stations and old vehicles started to break down because of Ethanol 🤦♂️
There have been car tests that show a slight mileage boost from 91/93. The detergent is critical. My 2010 E550 RWD 386hp V8 @ 158k drives like it has 425hp.
My area of the world dropped 93 octane for 91. Even though I had three cars calling for 93. My other cars, lawnmower and other small engines didn't call for 91 but I used it in all my engines because it was the only grade without ethanol. Corn belongs on the dinner table. Not in the gas tank. The only way to get the performance I want was to go all in with electric motors. My cars, motorcycle (one at least), and yard equipment are all electric now. No worries about gas, spark plugs, oil changes, winterizing etc. Full power from 0 rpms with super cheap fuel I get from my garage wall rather than a dirty gas station. Win-win.
I can attest that this is true. Especially the detergents. I rebuilt a 1975 CB550F that was in bad shape. Gummed 4 barrell carb that sat for years all tarred up. After a full rebuild of carb and almost everything else, i ran high octane and it did keep that carb spotless for years. Same for my rebuilt 2002 Shadow. It wont hurt to run it and with a carb it may be worth it but true, no better horsepower. Plus, i think most modern fuel injected systems are designed for anti knock and ping with lower grade fuel anyways so you probably wont see any change. Just cleaner system. Which, if you keep cars for 10yrs or more, may be worth it.
Depending on your compression ratio depends on what octane rating you can run. Ping aka knock can damage your piston. The bikes that run 87 can run 93 but there is no improvement on power or mpg. Higher octane gas does clean off carbon from valves and piston
That's my biggest concern with my bike as the owners manual calls for 86 OR higher so I put 93 cause of the detergents and it makes me feel better knowing the bike is running the best it can.
Compression ratio is not the only factor, my motorcycle is a 13:1 that calls for 87AKI, my car is a 10.9:1 that calls for 91AKI. The ignition timing is the other major factor. Electronic ignition that advances based on feedback from a knock sensor is also the reason that many cars now accept a range octane ratings.
Something I saw pointed out is if your engine has a lot of carbon build up that lowers your compression ratio since the carbon takes up space. So sometimes I put higher octain fules in older bikes because I don't want to be the person the bike brakes on
Brilliant info regarding the Euro / US octane differences. Always wondered why UK has 99 octane and US seems to only offer 93.
Although 98 RON is roughly equivalent to 93 AKI, and 95 RON (regular in most of Europe) is roughly equivalent to 91 AKI. (Which also means, if you've got a vehicle that calls for 98 RON, you'll want to find a station whose premium is 93, not 91, and there's whole states where that isn't the case AFAIK.)
(The US 87 AKI regular is roughly equivalent to 91 RON, FWIW.)
Air Cooled Harley 1200. Was told to run 91 by the Dealer. Sometimes I run a Fuel Cleaner in the tank. Seafoam or Lucas
I have a friend who has been delivering fuel for three decades. Most of the fuel that goes to the cheap discount locations is the same fuel that goes to the higher end ones.
If I were recruiting faculty for my hypothetical Motorcycle University, I'd pay Ari whatever he asked and give him tenure.
Ari, Zac, RyanF9, Lyndon Poskitt, Joey Evans. I could learn so much.
@@iainjolly FortNine. ;3
Great video, best explanation of the science I’ve seen, thank you.
I bought a new Kawasaki Versys 1000 in August 2020. Great motor, but I did notice some vibration at around 4000 rpm. Not unbearable, but that does correspond to 60mph in sixth gear so cruising around the legal speed limit became a bit tiresome. Some professional bike reviewers have also noticed this, but they mostly put it down to their new test bikes’ motors needing « run in » (as we say in the UK).
So I did some more trips, but even after 1500 miles the problem was still there. Kawasaki recommend « E5 » unleaded petrol (gas), which as I understand it contains 5% ethanol. Both BP standard unleaded (95 octane in the UK) and BP Ultimate unleaded (98 octane) are E5, so they both meet Kawasaki’s recommendation.
According to your science, and I know that this is accepted wisdom, I should have noticed no difference on switching from BP standard unleaded to more expensive Ultimate. And yet.... my motor is definitely smoother, and the vibration at 4000 rpm has virtually disappeared! I guess you will tell me that this is a placebo effect, just like homeopathy. I should get someone else to fill the tank without telling me which fuel has been chosen, and then see what I think. Maybe I will, but I don’t want to spoil the illusion!
I have seen better fuel efficiency in my Harley Davidsoj Fatboy, 47 mpg from 87 octane and 54 from 93 octane. I do not think it is all hype.
I also have had similar experiences in my car
I also ride a Versys 1000 but I have found no difference between different octanes or different ethanol percentage. There just is a slight vibration around 4000 rpm. Adjusting valve clearance and synchronizing the throttle bodies at 42.000 km did make a slight difference but that is to be expected after a synchronization. I did notice that after owning the bike for a while, I got used to the vibration and I almost never notice it anymore.
its nostalgic seeing Ari hosting this style moto videos again
Didn’t know 91 is premium in U.S , over here we running that 99 juice,premium juice.
Love your channel, great content
Big up 👊
You had me when you pick that 93 octane mark glass. Get a laugh after disclaimer.
Zack yells out "Hey! Has anyone seen those urine samples from the employee drug-testing program? They were right here on the bench!"
Nice! In a car I noticed mileage difference though it was between E10 and premium 98. When I looked into it, E10 has less energy due to ethanol content so it made sense to me
Oh ok! Here in Greece I have a growing suspicion that 98 gives just a little bit of extra mileage compared to the regular 95. But I’ve noticed this mainly on a 1600cc car than my 125cc motorbike.
I like this guy because he always talks and shows Kawasaki zx6r and other zx bikes and I'm buying a zx6r so it works out perfectly.
Quick answer: any gas that gets compressed heats up. This is the reason why turbocharged cars have an intercooler, its to cool down the compressed air. It is then mixed with fuel and compressed again in the engine.
In high compression engines and turbo engines, this air/fuel mixture can get so hot during the compression that it can self ignite before the spark plug sparks, while the piston is still compressing the mixture, creating engine knock. This 1- damages your engine, and 2- steals some power from you as it pushes against the engine's rotation
Octane helps prevent the mixture from self igniting by raising the temperature it needs to ignite
I use Shell V Power more for the additives & less for the actual Octane number.
Keeps my engine surprisingly clean!
I put in what my owners manual recommends.
91 octane or better.
2017 Road King.
Ok boomer
@@tabryis The reason why you were taught to hate boomers is because that generation was the most successful generation in the history of the world, and only in the USA. The marxist teaching you received, (sue your school), hates it when people make money in our free enterprise system-----so you won't. OK Boomer basher? Live with it.
My Harley says 93 octane,---but the 1200cc engine only makes about 70hp. Hardly seems like high compression to me.
2 cens from an engineer: actually knock is most likely to occur with a hot engine and low flame speed. So basically hot summer day, low rpms and high load (throttle full open).
High rpms increase in-cylinder turbulence, and hence flame speed, making knock less likely.
On our snowmobiles we experiment with different grades quite often. Lowering the octane can in certain situations slightly advance timing and make more power and throttle response. Only safe to experiment on if the engine has a DET sensor to put the engine in limp mode if a true DET is detected. Typically I will try it at home and drain the tank, add a quart or so of the lower octane fuel and test by riding. If it DETs than you can suck out the quart of fuel and return to a higher octane. That way you’re not on a ride being forced to run that fuel causing DET for the entire tank. Switching octane to a lower octane in sleds has been part of the snocross technique for a lot of years. It’s all part of the equation for maximizing power and response although every sled and fuel delivery system is different so there isn’t a one size fixed all solution to what fuel you run
Good discussion. Modern engine management systems make a big difference. My '92 K100 will run on pretty much any grade of fuel, even old gas.
However, my carburetor Triumphs demand premium. Triumph specified 97 RON minimum for my '72 Trident. Even then, they will knock if I'm stupid enough to accelerate from too low an RPM.
Lucky for me that non-ethanol gasoline is easy to find around here.
The K is liguid cooled, Triumph is air cooled. Huge difference, the air cooled motor will not tolerate low octane on a hot day. Pre-ignition could hole a piston in no time
This guy is an absolute unit of motorcycle knowledge, not just some bro-science.
He is originally from Motorcyclist Magazine. Then moved to Motor trend and now over to Revzilla.
Find a new flag ,,tyrant ! Desecrating a american flag should be prison time,,,
@@3rd-eye-neenja563 lol I despise that flag but calling him a tyrant and then saying he should get prison time for it is pretty hypocritical.
The flag of tyranny. Just another gang member.
I use 98 octane, works like a charm, it's like that raw pure really good stuff
Nice talk.
Here in Australia we have 91, 95 and 98 as standards.
I did notice an extra 50kms of mileage difference per tank, between 91 and 98 though.
They probably had ethanol in the 91, typically at least in the US the cheaper (its 85 equivelent** in the US, 91 RON = 85 (R+M)/2) they usually don't have ethanol in the higher octane "premium" option, and ethanol has a lower energy density so you will see better fuel economy with lower amounts of ethanol. That's probably what you noticed and not the octane change.
**Its kind of like how your bikes say 300 kph and ours say 186 mph, its the same thing, different units on our fuel pump as the octane equation standard is different in the US.
So in general, it is good to use higher octane fuel on any type of engine even those that doesn't require it coz it cleans my engine better but trade off is I pay more for gas if my engine doesn't require it. On the flip side, it is bad to use lower octane fuel that what the engine requires.
One thing to consider if using it purely for the detergents:
An occasional bottle of fuel injector cleaner is much cheaper and yields similar results. (The excellent Project Farm channel has conducted some tests that established this, if interested in more detail.)
@@TravisTerrell Thanks for the info.
Incorrect. If your engine is designed to run on 87 and your put 93 you are gaining absolutely nothing and wasting money
In most modern engines, the risk of engine damage from running lower octane than recommended is low. This is because there are almost always ping sensors, and the computer will quickly adjust by pulling timing (if there is variable valve tech available) or lowering the amount of fuel delivered (if there is electronic fuel injection). There is some damage risk, as there has to be some pinging to be detected, but the general effect is reduced power, and possibly worse fuel economy. Aftermarket computer upgrades can bring the risk of damage back by being much more aggressive with the variables that are held back when pinging is detected.
Ok but why push your luck? If you really want to run a lower octane, you should load a lower octane fuel map.
I know that many Filipino will benefit on this video. Please don't think your bikes and scooters run faster with High Octance gas.
And in our country, gas are all unleaded. The classification is whether it's regular or premium.