Hanger 18 is PROOF MEGADETH guitarist Dave Mustaine knows theory?
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- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2024
- Hanger 18 is PROOF MEGADETH guitarist Dave Mustaine knows theory? I'm going to use one of Megadeth's most popular tracks to prove my suspicion that he does. The song structure and maturity of a song like Hanger 18 is quite advanced. From pedal tones to chord inversions to modulations and more....it's obvious to me that Dave Mustaine has earned an honorary doctorate of music. I'd say the same thing for bands like the Beatles and Metallica. James Hetfield has written enough songs to know how musical structure works. Get on Dave Mustaine's level by taking my courses on theory and soloing. This is the year to become more than just a guitar player....become a MUSICIAN muhahaha!
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Dave is self-taught - he doesn't know much formal theory, but I'm sure he understands a good amount of it in his own way.
Yeah he has a great ear for music
@@nemesis8626
My stepdad was like that - he only knew the natural minor scale and a couple other scales and said he didn't know the modes, but he would use them when he was playing. So he knew them in his head, just not the actual names of them or the theory behind it.
Exactly, and that was the point in Kiko's statement, what I think is the reasin for this video.
Correct, even if you are self-taught you eventually learn theory after a while.
totally
Kiko actually had a video recently where he addressed whether Dave knows music theory. He basically said Dave uses music theory but he would tell you he doesn't know he's using it.
like the government not telling us about aliens that crash landed and they hid from us?
@@mykneeshurt8393 eeeeeeyyy
@@mykneeshurt8393 hahaha that went sideways
I was gonna say, even if he doesn't know the technical terms for what he's doing all the time he knows the functionality of it and really that's all that matters.
It's called second hand tuition. You learn from your favorite musicians who eventually were officially taught and have theory knowledge, so you learn what sounds good.
you can listen to Marty soloing over chromatics chords proggressions on Five Magics too (solo #5). Man, that part is hard because not only has chromatism, but it changes to a 5/8 time signature.
Maybe I can't play every single lick there is, but when I hear a solo, in my head I can understand basically any guitarist's musical thought process... except Marty Friedman's.
I remember hearing that even Marty himself had difficulty in the studio m with that one but once he eventually pulled it off, it’s now one of his favourite runs from the album.
If Dave didn't sound like whiner his whole shit talking persona might hold water but he is as cool as Lars with that tough guy talk that was hilarious! Fuck em all!
Marty is the alien Dave sings about.
@@cool-name4475 If you listen to a lot of old Asian classical music ( Indian, Japanese etc) then you'll understand exactly what Marty's thought process is.
7:34 even Dimebag Darrell (at the background) was watching the fckn awesome songwriting of Hangar 18 hahaha
Vaov! Great detail :D
Damn, he looks stunned lmao!
I have a weird theory that everyone kinda subliminally picks up things by feel and sound anyway... I used to write for the longest time without delving into theory and then when I decided to knuckle down and learn theory I went back on some old songs and it was interesting to see that I was already using different modes and certain chords that I hadn't actually knowingly learned. It's amazing the things your mind and ear can pick up on without your knowledge
This happens a lot actually, many musicians.
And that's exactly how theory was created. It's just a collection of labels for things that sound good. But there is that weird belief that theory is some collection of restrictive "rules" and that playing by ear will lead you to more creative results. Well no, both methods will point to the same result in the end. There are certain things that our human brains perceive as good. Play what sounds good that's the only thing that matters. And if you know theory you can just name what you played.
Exactly. Music theory was used to examine things that already worked. Anybody with a good ear can write a song without knowing theory. Which isn’t to say theory can’t be extremely useful.
@@Theopholly Yep, I'm super fond of music theory myself and it has helped me immensely, but I have met lots of people that don't know any and yet still play amazingly. That said though, I've also met tons of people that suck and neglect to learn anything because they don't want to follow the "rules".They can't seem to realise that there aren't any rules, they just suck and can't admit it.
What someone plays can be related to theory. The only question is whether or not they’re cognizant of it
The best lineup(Dave, David, Marty, Nick) that Megadeth ever had!
Other bands: let's start the show with an easy song, so we can adjust to the audience and get warm before we go for it.
Megadeth: let's start with "Hangar 18"...
Vinnie Paul told Dave to open with Hangar in 2013. They used to open with Trust for the longest time. Now EVERY show is Hangar 18.
I think it was both Dave having his own interpretation of theory and Marty’s knowledge of theory (soloing of chord changes at least) that made this era of Megadeth so musical.
I remember this song being similar to call of ktulu by metallica. Same key , progression . Both songs were written by Mustaine.
They wrote "Call of Ktulu" with Dave, solos and interludes included, he didn't write the whole thing by himself. He did that for "Hangar 18".
Yea he wrote that chord progression but some of the other riffs are cliffs and James and the solos are Kirk's
@@murk4552 Pretty sure Dave didn't entirely write Hangar 18, he wrote most of it but I remember hearing that Marty Friedman wrote his solos on this song and wrote most of his solos in general on that album
@@Azraelmaximilian Dave claimed years ago he “hummed” all of Marty’s solos and wrote them that way. If anyone believes that though I have a bridge to sell them lol
The “Really Dave? That’s like the oldest trick in the book” line has me dying 😂. Perfect delivery.
I've loved Dave since I was a young teen and I am still blown away at his talent. So many of his songs are literally perfect. Not to be cliche, but he truly is a musical genius. Especially, not knowing anything formal.
❤truly from me ditto 100%and more
There is a recent vid going around now of Dave giving some fans a Symphony of Destruction lesson, and he uses the music theory jargon when explaining. Guy definitely knows the theory behind what he writes.
Which vid exactly? Let's see a link. If it's basic stuff, that doesn't really count as "knowing theory" if he's talking about stuff anyone would learn in the first year or two of learning an instrument. Also, if it's a more recent vid it doesn't indicate he knew the book theory behind what he was writing on his best work, done in the 80s and first half of the 90s.
@@PerfectSense77 Theory gatekeeping is pretty sad. Go away lol
The best Megadeth line-up EVER!!! Of course Dave knows theory and no one can deny that.
Nah with Gar and Chris is the best
@@truthhurts79 nope rust in peace is there greatest album
@@James-hh1lq all the commercial come latelys say that about Megadeth... Megadeth will never recapture that unique jazz thrash fusion they had on killing is my business and peace sells with gar Samuelson and Chris Poland
@@truthhurts79 i prefer testament to all the big 4 anyway . Dont bother me who likes what the most
@@James-hh1lq Slayer is 100 times better than testament 😂
Deeper analysis here for music snobs.
The same chromatic theme of the intro repeats during the first whole part of the song as well:
-On the verses, Dave plays A to D, Bb to D, B to D (while Marty harmonizes D to F), and C to D (Marty doing E to G) for the C/D chord, and a variation of the same riff for the chorus. So Marty is always giving the root and the third while Dave is giving the chromatic theme and the root.
On Marty's solo, Dave plays the same chords again but as an arpeggio, with the open D between two octaves of the chromatic line. And the twist is, Marty harmonizes by playing F, G, F and E over the chord progression of the intro, so Dmb6 turns to Gm (Bb-D-G) and C/D turns to Cadd2 (or C9).
-For the next part, they use C# as a transition chord and then go to a riff in Dm, with Eb. Still in Dm, just added the flat 2nd so it has a different feel to it before going to a different key. The next riff is the same intervals (root, 8ve and 3rd, then a flat 2nd chord) but in F#m (F#m and G). Then the last riff is e, f#, g, a and the G chord.
The last two riffs are in F# phrygian... basically a D major scale but starting from the 3rd as the root. So this is just a simplification but the whole song is in Dm and D (F# phr), using basically just four chords (Dm, C, Gm and F#m) for a whole prog thrash song and making it sound so complex.
So Dave probably didn't think of it all this way, he just based some riffs on the "Ktulu" chords and took it from there with what sounded good, but even if he's not conscious about it, this song shows that he does know a lot of theory, he uses it a lot on other songs as well.
Music theory notes:
In D minor (saddest of all keys)
Pedal tone (the repeating of the root note)
Chord progression: Dm-Dmb6-Dm6-C/D
Inversion happens
Soloing over chromatic chord progressions
Exotic phrygian dominant solo
Back & forth between D & F#
imo, Music theory at its core is simply knowing the sounds and knowing how to get them, whether or not you use the same labels and names as everyone else is secondary. Love these videos!
Hanger 18 and Lucretia are my favorite songs on the album
I got to hear Hangar 18 live on Sept 29th. Aswell as his other goodies. It sounds so badass live without a doubt
I know everyone bashes Dave's vocals but he's actually gotten much better as this show demonstrates.
Oh fuck it. I'm subscribing. RUclips kept suggesting your stuff tonight, and all of it has been amazing. I'm a drummer, but I absolutely love your breakdown of theory in your videos. Stay awesome, dude.
A baseball outfielder doesn't need to know trig in order to know where to stand in the field when waiting for a popfly to come right to them.
That's what Dave is doing. He feels the music, and despite surrounding himself with experts in music theory that play lead for Megadeth, Dave doesn't analyze or know the names of the theory he's utilizing, just like a baseball center fielder doesn't know the math he's using to eye a baseball and know where to stand in order to wait for it to come to his glove.
If I was Dave, I would have found time over the past 40 years to learn theory, but ... there's no doubt that Dave has an ear for it without knowing the difference between Dorian and Pentatonic. That's why he writes these hybrid scales like in Tornado of Souls, lol.
From what I've read, Mustaine knows theory on an instinctual level but doesn't really use any of the terminology, according to Kiko. Also Mustaine has said before that the Hangar 18 intro was him basically copying the Beatles.
Hmm which beatles song I wonder.
@@bendagostino2217 i think helter skelter(intro only)
I requested you break down Hanger 18 after you did Tornado of Souls. Thank you very much Shred for doing this! \m/
It's so cool that Dave's using (what looks to be) a Jackson Rhoads. (Randy will always be my favorite)
Dear Master Sreddington.
What do you think about "Looking Down The Cross" riff?
Could you make a video about it?
It is strange that this song is known not so much...
And also it is from the debute Megadeth album that really strange that they could write such song so early.
And maybe "My Last Words" as well.
Shred, I love your videos!!! Keep on doing the Megadeth stuff. I love it to death...
In my opinion, just because a person makes a song that has a lot of theory doesn’t mean the person knows theory, play what sounds nice in the song
I just discovered your channel. I'm a 46-year-old bass player fan of metal and your commentary makes me laugh so hard I love it!
Thank you for the amazing video. I remember being blown away with hangar 18 when I heard the song when the album came out. Thanks for a nice breakdown of how music theory actually works in that complex and evil sounding song. 😈
Saw these guys at Roseland Ballroom in NYC. Mosh pit was insane. Drank a lot of beer that night. When they started playing this the crowd went extra nuts. I left that night fucking injured.
Miss concerts.
On to the topic. Dave knows what sounds right intuitively and has the technical ability to play what he hears in his head. That's a spark, a talent, that separates a good guitarist from great.
They're touring with lamb of God now. Hopefully they come by your town
I love your music theory reviews over these great songs. I hope to see more in the future
I believe in aliens after seeing Marty Friedman's picking technique in HD.
7:42 my favorite part of the song
More than theory, is pure talent and instinct that has been sharpened by years and years of playing.
At last, sooner or later, hangar 18 would end up in this channel.
The music theory is in our brain, it seems like the taste of melody can be so close to real music theory... Marty still the best japanese guitarist btw! If u ask about this album, he goes silent and then starts to play pentatonics. Poor guy doesnt remember rust in peace times anymore😥
He prpbably doesnt want to think/ talk about it
The opening 4 chords progression is also a part of Metallicas Call of ktulu. Dave probably had rights to rip it off.
Fucking love the bass you can even hear my love through all that trebble
I think Dave is much like me in a way that I would be considered self taught but over the years have understood a basic understanding of how music theory works. At least enough to create music. Wether or not its decent is up to you lol
I just saw MegaDeth preform live. It was my first metal concert and they opened the show with Hanger 18. From the moment I heard the opening riff it gave me chills. Would have loved to see them in their prime doing this song!
What’s up Shred? I’m from Ireland, assuming from the T-shirt you’re a Guinness fan, you need to try it in Dublin!
Shred you're like The Rock. You speak in catchphrases. Dave does know music theory. He's also a huge Vivaldi fan.
Marty destroyed all metal soloists when this album came out. PERIOD. Not jus' sayin', definitely SAYING. There was no metal solo guitarist that played in such power/phrasing, anywhere, any how, any place.
Wonder how Dimebag would approach it
I think the same is true for Countdown to Extinction and Youthanasia. Marty F. is on another level soloist. And of course, Dave Mustaine was at the top in guitar riffing and songwriting at that time. Destroyer duo.
Correct.
I must agree.
I'm a sucker for good music with good back stories.
I love it, not one "smart" phone in the crowd. Back when people were into the show, and not just there to record it.
2:29 wish he also said "Megadave" for Ellefson lmao
These guys freaking rock man!! This song has always been well known for its insane solos, but Ellefsons play always stood out to me in this song. U mentioned it early on in the video I believe. Anyways, another good video man I always appreciate watching u break things down!!
you should have more viewers, you are a fucking genius, thanks for all
One of my favorites to play on guitar
1:34 ok, now I'd like an Ancient Aliens episode with Nick as an expert XD
they're in the music,entertainment business of course they must know their art but he's definitely very creative and talented-which is far more important.
In the end of your segment set it all. ! 🗿🎵
huge thanks for what you do Shred. nice to have some guidance as a 8 month into guitar playing guy. have both courses. keep the evil content up muhahahaha
"Selective amnesia's the story
Believed, foretold, but who would suspect?"
Sometimes I listen to Killing is my business album and he switches riffs and modulates like 3 or 4 times and odd time signatures and really makes me wonder what he knows. I think he probably doesn't know much but understands it in his own way.
dunno man, but I've stood like 20 feet from the stage and watched his hands an entire show. he never messed up. dude is so tight and on-point it doesn't matter
[he's a very nice dude too. signed the shirt I was wearing]
What a great fucking lineup this was, one of the best bands ever
7:46 that burp sounded like part of the song lol
I didn't go to a tech school to learn how to be a mechanic but I became one!
Parts of Call of Ktulu have the same chords as the intro of Hangar 18.
a "b" note in a d minor chord is just madness
Heres a fun Hollywood story ( 100% true ) I have met Nick Menza many times when I lived in Hollywood, and even jammed with him once ..He was a very interesting character who was battling with his demons after Megadeth , I asked him why he is not longer with Megadeth. ( I got a somewhat complicated answer about songwriting/ publishing and some other stuff ) & he even told me how he got the gig.. He never spoke about aliens lol but I tell ont one thing that man was I N S A N E L Y talented & not just drums either.. Nick was MONSTER guitar player he and he also plays piano and know theory ( I have heard him play both ) He also plays multiple styles of music, including old school funk, when we jammed together I was expecting him to play thrash or something , NOPE he played Chameleon by Herbie Hancock, it blew my mind that he know that song ! last time I saw him he was healthy and well and gigging..I heard about his passing years later doing what he loved at the Baked Potato , so there are a few fun facts about Nick Menza .. RIP
Shred, keep in mind the fact that Dave is no dummy, and, he got Marty Fuckin Friedman, to join Megadeth
I don't know if Dave knows or knew theory back then, but I would bet big dollars Marty knows everything relevant about music theory. In fact, I would feel fine assuming Chris Poland, a jazz guitarist, is quite familiar with theory, as well as Al Pitrelli, who used to play for Trans Siberian Orchestra, are both very competent with music theory. I have no idea how much Jeff Young ever contributed to song writing, but just about everyone who played lead guitar for Megadeth, was pretty advanced in their technical musical knowledge, Kiko, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt...
i agree he knows music theory on his terms, Dave's music theory his time with Marty taught him a lot.
People talk smack about Dave's voice but he's in key
One of the few parts the tab book got right is the intro!! Better make sure your guitar is in good tune!!
Shred. I would like to see an analysis from… Aphelion Void by Dødheimsgard. That would be a true evil thing to do. 😈 also keep up the good work. 👍
Yes please
he is the music theory, i mean he has the music theory by "default" you know. its like being a good basketball player, you know they feel the game they just know what to do in a game but they are not tactical professionals or game managers they just got it in them. its what talent means and i think thats what makes their work great because those people doesnt use "learned, ready schemes", they do their things by naturally. you know you cant teach people how to think you can only give them the thoughts. they have the ability to "think" and produce naturally.
Ellefson bass thumps hard on this track
Naturally through practice and experience, you learn music theory. Music theory is just notated experiences and science of everything musically/sonically and how/what they work in/with. Most proficient musicians will find theory techniques naturally.
Whole album sounded so exotic when I first heard it!! MegaMenza !
Beato once described Kurt Cobain as knowing theory and he responded to the hypothetical remark that Kurt didn’t know theory and Rick disagreed with himself in his hypothetical saying “Kurt knows what he’s doing. I just know what what it’s called when he does it.” And feel like that definitely applies to Dave Mustaine.
The guy at the board that night had Marty way up high in the mix. No complaints here.
I gotta say, the sound guy in this performance was sleeping.
"I can't even see Dave's face, are you in there Dave?" 🤣
I like how you censored your mouth but not the reverbed “HOLY SHIT” haha
You can see Dimebag Darrell standing on the side at 07.35
Let's be honest there is no Thrash metal band in the world that could beat Megadeth when it come to album cover art
Minus their debut
Maiden?
@@NailFactoryProds but Maiden aren't thrash metal
@@supernothing77 yeah OK. Got me there
you need to collab with Doug Helvering so we can have a side by side comparison between the opinions of an experienced metalhead and a newcomer to the genre, and have both explain the theory behind the music and whether it works or not.
Watching Marty cross over to Megadave was beautiful to watch, for a Cacophony fan.
My fave cacophony song NINJA
Satriani being an alien would fully explain how he can do such technical shit with a guitar. Dude is an absolute madman especially when I saw him live in Eugene. I’m not even a super fan or anything of his work but his skills floor me
Songs aren’t written by accident in the sense you just don’t throw chords around. Everything is written with purpose and intention. When you break the songs down you realize what brilliant minds they are.
Huh, RS2014 transcribes those shifting intro chords(not the arpeggios) as 3-string chords, while you transcribe them with the D3 note. I’ll try playing the D3 note next time.
Yeah I get people telling me what to do in music all the time. Like I shouldn't make a theme or personality for my music. I get a lot of my writing from film composers and old time composers. But that's metal. Especially symphonic metal. They don't realize it's the same sound but on a different instrument. Just because I structure music like a film composer, doesn't mean I don't feel the music and imagine what is going to happen next. We're doing the same things here.
I think it would be accurate to say that Dave Mustaine innately understands theory. He doesn't know why certain pairings make sense, but he knows that they do. Early in his career anyway. He may well know the whys by this stage in his career.
this is my favorite song
Holdsworth knew theory long before actually learning formal western theory. It was his own alien theory though. All good musicians have theory whether it's formal or not. The thing is though that formal theory allows you to communicate ideas with others and improv better with a standardized language.
Yes, theory is more than just language but that is by far its most valuable aapecty with performing musicians.
@Quinton Vonesh I've watched a lot of Holdsworth. His brain was not normal and that coupled with his huge hands make him impossible to imitate for most, including me. Have you ever watched any videos on his theory? From my understanding it is all relative interval type stuff that he used to form chords. I won't lie; I didn't understand it.
@Quinton Vonesh So, on that relative interval thing I wrote. I'm not trying to sound more educated than I am it's just that was my best way of explaining it. Like the whole note scale for example. It only has two keys in reality. It's based on an interval of a whole note. With his, my limited understanding again, his "key" was based on an interval of two or more notes. That would be used to form a chord. So, any chord using the same intervals would be in the same "key." That was why he was so insanely chromatic.
I'll stop there before I embarrass myself. 🤣 How long do you think it will be before we get another player like him?
Rust in Peace set the bar and it still has not been broken. I can still listen to that record and get chills every time. I used to joke that getting older meant going back and listening to the black album and rust in peace and realizing that rust in peace is a timeless masterpiece and the black album doesn't come close.
Real Metallica fans abandoned them when the nauseating Black album came out.
@@redpillpharmacy6877 I wouldn't say that is the meaning of "real fans". Those that were "real" would rather be those that didn't leave even after the black album. Though i don't like post-black album Metallica too, and actually neither black album itself
@@Kamil_Srnka Incorrect. Once Metallica sold out, their real fans abandoned them. Real fans never continue to support a band that sells out.
Top song! I expected you to pay attention to it before, but it's never too late ...
You should try Good Mourning / Black Friday, that song is awesome
Nick Menza is up levitating with alien Jesus. RIP.
Sounds like James Bond when you break the chord progression up. 7:45 cracked me up
So.. I always thought playing guitar would be kinda easy...
Good luck kids,.I'm staying with listening ✌ because this is rocket science for me
Boy they really cranked the volume on that kick drum didn't they?
There’s a red line between this song and Dave being on Alex Jones lol.
Hey Shred love your content brother! Can you do a 10 best screaming heavy metal voices of all time! My favorite of all time is Bruce Dickinson in the intro of Number of the beast! Look forward to your picks!
Marty needed Dave’s song structure to create memorable solos. Great teamwork but Dave Mustaine is Megadeth
Legendary song I never can't play it right, because too muuuuucch......
Need more metal analysis by the Almighty Shred. May i suggest "Hot on your heels" by Steeler!!!! Keep em comin Shred
Clothes Hangers can be purchased in packages of 18ct...look it up.
" I know too much...." edit: and it's 18 inches for a wire hanger....whaaa
think he learned this from his Grandma
" Possibly I've seen too much..!?"
Pretty much all of Sudden Death’s solos are played over chromatic riffs. Chris Broderick goes over it in an interview at his approach to soloing over chromatic progressions
Honestly, Sudden Death is one of my favourite Megadeth songs