WHO IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME IN FIGHTING GAMES?!
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- Опубликовано: 7 мар 2024
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If you saw this discussion going around, then you should know I HAVE things to say about what determines the GREATEST OF ALL TIME in fighting games!
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The fact that Evo 37 is mentioned as the #1 E-Sports moment of all-time really is all that needs to be said honestly.
You and Daigo got people PAID to play video games and blew the whole thing up.
props to giving Ryan Hart his flowers, UK represent!
I think you're on point Justin. Honestly, Twitter is just full of hot takes and really rewards people for making them when it comes down to it.
Recency bias is pretty common and annoying in all kinds of things unfortunately. Best response to it is just facts.
Good point about recency bias - sometimes people who took the first step deserve massive credit despite their attempt of seeming crude by modern standards. Google micro mouse for a fun example.
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Well when a mommy goat and a daddy goat love each other very, very much…
Justin: I dont like talking about myself (in regard to being a goat)
Also Justin: Has 9 Evo titles
Legends never call themselves goats thats why you never see Justin,daigo or tokido said that 😂 all of them have like 18 evos combined or something which is insane!
Hes so humble! Surely he must be the GOAT
The most short-term GOAT must at least be Arslan Ash. Dude came outta nowhere and bullied everyone in T7, including the Korean hegemoni, all by himself.
Arslan's T7 arc is legendary.
Short-term greatest of all time? You hear how redundant this sounds right? Makes no sense. He's a good player, now, in the present, not of all time.
@@CobraCommander69 Arslan is the only Tekken player in history to win EVO twice AND Tekken Tour twice
@yoruzeruel5009 You making this statement just proves my point. He has notable feats in 1 title in a few years time. Sako, Nemo, Tokido, Justin Wong, Leffen, Daigo, Sonic Fox. Some of these guys have been great at a bunch of fighting games, FOR DECADES. Sonic Fox was dominant for a good 5+ years in multiple titles. If AA can keep doing what he's been doing then maybe you can consider him for GOAT status. As it stands right now he's just a really good player in the present.
@CobraCommander69 ash also casually demolishes pro king of fighters players for fun when he takes a break from tekken,he was very good in kof before tekken
What makes you the goat? Be named Justin Wong. Bam.
😂
😂let's go Justin
In all seriousness, to me he's like Shroud but with fighting games. You put a few random fighting games in his hands and he probably picks it up faster than most people.
Great video!
It’s nice to bring history to the table because all that we see now, even in terms of skill or prizes was made by the late players.
Congrats on the video!
Dont remind him@@xiaoxu8447
Nice shout out for Ryan Hart. Knew him back in the day causing havoc at Roberts Arcade, Croydon, England. Mad talent 👏🔥
Same I use to beat him in tekken on George Street maybe we met
Great video, I think it's interesting what you said about Momochi already winning Capcom Cup and EVO, and also being one of the best since 3s, and most people not even bringing him up even when talking Street Fighter players only. Legends like Ryan Hart, Kazunoko, Tokido, Yourself, Daigo, etc. have done so much over the span of 20 years in all kinds of games, some of them still winning majors today way past their prime, and a lot of these stories aren't well told or passed on to newer players
Momochi was hands down the best sf4 player for the last year and a half of the games life when the meta was at its highest and won evo japan in sf5 so that is suprising that he gets over looked by people. I'd think most people would either have Daigo, Infiltration or Momochi as the front runners for Street Fighter goat. Daigo has the most history going all the way back to the 90s so for someone to beat him out in my opinion, they'd need a Justin MvC2 / Sonicfox level of dominance for atleast 2-3 years to be close since no one has been able to do that, with the closest being Infiltration and Daigo himself.
Maybe we should remove sfv from the conversation because that game was trash
@stephenm707 Sonic Fox doesn't count, he's not good at real fighting games. MK and DBZ are nothing but shallow gimmick games.
@@theshadiest7109 lmao. There is always that one guy who calls other games "not real". I bet you won enough tournaments in both the "real" fighting games and "not real" ones to say that.
@@theshadiest7109what the fuck is a "real game" what a gatekeeper ass take. Just say you don't like the game, just because you don't like it doesn't make it any less real. All fighting games now have gimmicks anyways
"Mashes the 🐐 button" is just perfectly said. It's an overused term in general nowadays. People will have a good run with a couple Value Menu visits and be like "these Wendy's spicy nuggets stay goated" lol. Jokes aside, im glad you brought up other fighting games. Not all FGs merit being in the conversation, like i wouldnt think GOAT if someone said they won Rise Of The Robots nationals. But focusing just on SF while also saying FGs broadly juat shows lack of awareness to competition elsewhere. I understand the hype building though. For GOAT convos, i personally value consistency over various metas in one game, and the ability to play multiple FGs at high levels. Kind of tough to compare different eras too. Still a fun convo.
People don't talk about Ryan heart cause he's quite. But man's a beast his story is crazy.
Great video Justin! Couldn't have said better. Putting respect on those names of people that literally sacrificed a lot just to "play videogames" back in the days with basically no financial support and often not even emotional support 😅, it's really important. We wouldn't be at the place we are now, AAA games and massive communities if it weren't for those great players that created memorable moments that hooked many other people to play those games! LET'S GO JUSTIIIIIN ❤❤!!!!
The curse of youth..to be blind to everything that came before you..Good video..SALUTE
Agree with JWong's list. You have to stand the test of time to have the GOAT status. IMO, you also need to be able to have more than one franchise under your belt too because otherwise folks like Xiaohai should be on the list for just how dominant they are in their respective game. Every one of Jwong's list satisfies these criterion.
Winning in multiple game series 2D and 3D makes someone the goat. As with everything, context is key.
Criteria for me:
Consistency in multiple games/eras ,Impact, an era of dominance, major wins,define an era. Which is why Justin is the GOAT of fighting games
That's why Tokido or Ryan Hart are name that deserve the same kind of praise.
I mean Tokido literally taught the US how to play 3s and especially Urien.
@@Genkaku The top 3 all time GOAT of FgCs are a toss up between Justin Daigo Ryan and Tokido
Justin, Daigo, Tokido are the reasonable answers.
@@adamquenano8563Ryan is clearly 4th when compared to the other 3.
No lies detected
For me, an important part of a fighting game GOAT is presence over multiple games. Yeah there are a couple really good younger players, but thinking back there were multi game rivalries and dominating players over decades.
Even one like fchamp who maybe does not have consecutive first places among capcom cups or whatnot did consistently fight in top 8 spots from SF4 over UMVC3, Street Fighter x Tekken, Killer Instinct, SF5 and now into SF6. That's some competitive history and consistency that the younger folks have yet to build up.
WHAT MAKES YOU THE GOAT IN FIGHTING GAMES?
Being named Justin Wong is a good place to start...
I really appreciate your views and commentary in this video and on this subject. The respect you show to the top players of old and the humbleness of not wanting to brag about yourself really shows how great of person you are, my good Sir.
Evo Moment #37. You and Daigo pushed fighting game scene to the world. It still brings people together and makes them awe. Another great player for me is Qudans, although he might not have as many titles and wins in tournaments, but he was also a huge inspiration factor like yourself Justin. For me GOAT is not only a person with most titles but the one that puts something on the world map, and as you said yourself Michael Jordan will always be a great example here. For me you are the Michael Jordan of fighting games Justin, and Daigo is Scottie Pippen. Thank you for all the content and all the memories. Big love from Poland.
Yoooo, I'm liking these slice of life episodes; they allow for interesting discussions and you learn an thing or two
That key part that you said…. Impact in the scene. You my dood are that for me and many that have grown to love you and your continued contributions to the scene! Not to mention you’re a badass at the genre as a whole.
I'm glad you mentioned Ryan Hart in this list. I loved watching his Sagat in SF4 and met him at a London Arcade one time.
Bruh i love this video
Not only is it informative, but it's accurate and doesn't throw shade. It really does feel like it's made with love for the fgc but also with love for accuracy and history
Thing is you're on this list no matter what
Great vid, the need for fgc history and commom context is super necessary, example in 2000 - 2010 what were the fgc majors in japan/usa aside from evo, who won? Who were contendors, what were the games, what was most popular.
Who were the commentators, how many people entered? How many people watched? All these questions and more need amswers for context
I feel like dominance in multiple games is necessary to be in the convo. I think Arslan is almost there. He conquered T7, but I like to see him finally dominate KOF15 or the next Fatal Fury.
This is the most honest conversation I have ever heard about this issue.
Im putting you in that category no man has ever mad me cry but seeing you win that mvc trophy again is what inspired me to play
Awesome video Justin. I still think you are the goat not only from your results playing but also what you have done for the FGC as a whole. Glad to hear your praise for Ryan Heart. With the influx of players a ton of great people get overlooked, including him. Gotta check the mashing on words. Stoked to hear you commentate at redbull kumite!
Bro I’m not trynna glaze but you. Like when people think of fighting game players they think of you. I’ve actually been watching you compete for like my whole life( I think you’ve been doing it for at least 21 years)
His reign in mvc2 is what made the biggest mark. Legend.
Evo moment 37 makes you the goat. You were there so you know better than anyone lol. Jokes aside you, Daigo, and a handful of others are truly in that conversation. Old fighting game players can definitely compete now but I question how many of these newer dudes could hang in the games with harder execution.
Very informative, appreciate your insight.👍🏾
J Wong.......You are the GOAT!!! Thanks for also becoming a Canadian!!
I appreciate this video. Context and history is key and the great ones of today stand upon the shoulders of legends who paved the way. More attention and lip service should be given to history, and also games that don’t get as much attention, especially at EVO. Vampire Savior has some legendary players around the world who likely will never set foot on EVO main-stage, which is a shame.
Being a GOAT is not just winning tournaments. Evolving the meta with your play, dramas, complete domination of the opposition, remarkable moments and your brand overall makes the GOAT.
I remember when you were with EG. But weren’t you also with Empire Arcadia for a short time? With Sanford, Yipes and that dude with the Nintendo power glove that was good at Tetris back in the Marvel days.
We all stand on the shoulders of giants! That's how progress is made. If not for the old guard, who played their games to the max, we wouldn't even have iterations of the newer games. The old guard's passion and flag-bearing for their games is what eventually let it spread to the general public. Thank you for all you did and still do, Justin! You deserve your spot on Rushmore!
Thank you for saying this! You're on point! People are stepping on history!
You are so calm and humble, and yet here you are dropping facts and roasting everyone just like that. You the GOAT!! haha
This was a great video and topic. That word gets thrown around carelessly these days. I am glad you brought up Ryan Hart, that man may just be THE goat. Definitely debatable, but it's crazy to me that anyone that just started in the last 5 years can already be called a goat... Keep it up Justin.
Infiltration is definitely up there too. He's won evo in three different games, and the only person won SF5 evo twice.
I definitely agree what is crazy is that you never really hear anyone mention his name on topics like this despite what happened dude was on the path of being the best in SFV.
Infil is also up there
Yeah most definitely, he's dominated so many games highly competitive scenes, Sfiv, Sfv, Tekken X SF , Tekken tag team, samurai showdown and i think theres one more
Yes i hate how he has been forgotten. Infiltration is an amazing player.
Good talk, and thank you for introducing about Momochi and Sako. I didn't know that.
Excellent dive into the history of FGC, and a very important video. Thank you.
I agree with you 100% on this topic. First, Ryan Hart deserves way more respect in this conversation than most people give. Recency bias is real and people always overreact with recent results. Mena may very well end up being the GOAT one day, but he ain't there yet. JWong, Daigo, Sonic Fox, Ryan Hart, and Tokido are probably all in the top 5 for me right now. JWong versus Daigo is maybe the hardest decision out there in terms of #1 and #2.
Justin has all this information and its great that he shared it. Looking at things in isolation is easy, but taking everything into consideration is hard.
What makes you the goat to me is you're willing to put in every night single fighting game have a full-time job put only 4 hours into your training session show up as a nobody never been heard of. And pop off and win consistently in one video game or even place like top five makes you one of the goats.
Justin you are the goat because how much work you put in everyday from playing at home to playing in arcades you have a resume built on your legacy in history.
I think to be honest every one of us can be the goat if we are willing to put the time in and be passionate about the game I'm really hoping I can go to Evo and meet all of the goats there possibly sign up in the tournament as a casual and see how well I do learn for that experience think it even better I always know that is always going to be that person that is better than me and that's why I want to train very hard and fighting games that I love and have a passion for. But let me stop you happen you guys have a wonderful day if any of you guys want to play some fighting fighting games that I own hit me up sometimes
LOVE THIS PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE YOU NAILED IT!!!!!
Great vid and really goos points. Calling Mena the goat of ALL fightning games is a crazy shout.
Jwong was 2 years younger than me when he got into the scene and crushed it and this was a great breakdown and commentary.
Your thoughts on Alex Valle? I consider him one of the goats of fighting games. You Diego Ryan is definitely up there and probably Snakeeyes.
The GOAT is in the heart of the cards
Love this video from you. You are a goat. Your video with Diago is legendary and I wish you would get royalties from that video alone lol.
What makes you a goat is not only your accomplishments, but also paving the way for others throughout history. Also, the community and commentators has pushed their legend beyond what was inside the game. Finally, their consistency of success. Like sonic fox, making low tier characters look amazing in MK. Not only pushing them to only to the limits, but actually winning. Another example would be Maximillion, not only because of his fighting game knowledge, but how he intertwines it with the community itself. As far as overall fighting games no I think he’s an amazing player but he doesn’t have an era like punk did. I would even put yipes in there from his amazing gameplay, actually winning and becoming a top 10 commentator in top of that. Or H box in melee, and how you still carries it until this day. I think the term goat is extremely over but I’m just a scrublord commenting on a RUclips vid.
Fair points. I agree. Recognizing the players on other games was also really cool.
Really good content, Justin.
Great Vid. Agree with everything you said about the GOAT topic. I wonder why no one ever brings up or Mentions Carl White(Perfect Legend) as one of the GOATS?? PL has 3 Evo titles. 2 back to back in MK and 1 from Dead or Alive. Plus he's won CEO and other tourneys,etc. Alex Valle,John Choi, and Bas should be mentioned as well imo.
Even Sonic Fox is light years ahead of Menard in terms of GOAt of fighting games
There are multiple GOATed players in the FGC, and Justin is definitely one of them.
Great respect to Justin for mentioning Xiaohai and his accomplishments in KOF
Absolutely agree. A lot of the new heads do not know about the lore of the FGC. Fighting Gods of japan, who came to the US and showed the world how to play proper third strike. Yun and Urien specialists showing you how to use their super arts. And of course Ryan Hart. The original Ryu of the 3D FGC. Travelled all over Asia to play the best and learn. All the way back in the 90’s there are stories of him playing best of 50 sets. Against the best in Japan and Korea. And of course Daigo needs no introduction, famously playing capcom fighters and even GG. Sonic has shown in multiple games in modern era that he is capable. Being dominant in one game is good, but more consideration is needed before throwing the word GOAT around.
Video was on point, you delivered facts and left no one out of the conversation, great! And I feel you, when in comes to young people, they only talk from bias and forget where things come from. Good thing is, I don't think the young top players are saying they're the GOATS, it all comes down to fans. Uninformed fans
Great video, i subed.
Great video to put the 'GOAT' debate in perspective.
I think it is easier to pick goats for specific franchises though.
Knee is the obvious choice for Tekken so far. But Arslan Ash who put his entire country's scene on the map can surpass him if he keeps it up.
Man Justin dropping knowledge on the young and un informed...
Thank you for showing how having a platform can actually be informative.
Justin's sentiment is great. Let's just say this, Daigo from 3rd strike to his streak in SF4 to start was not just considered the goat, before the loss to Poongko he was untouchable. SF4 had the highest skill cap of the SF games, had tons of these old guard legends, and Daigo at that time was a cut above. Tokido on career has probably caught up to him, but the GOAT conversation in fighting games begins and ends with Umehara and I don't even think that's debatable.
I think goat in fighting games it goes based on accolades, how many different fighting games you won globally, major tournaments, how you changed the game.
I think Justin you have accomplished all these things including a large fan base. Sako is also good with Big bulleta hood in dark stalkers
Teach em' the Roots, J-Wong-Sama!
They gon' learn
You make a great point with New player that won some tournament. For me being a goat is to be able to have consistency from year to year over a decade then you could get a name. But when it's about just like 3 to 4 years winning for me it's not enough.
Honorable mention to Pepeday and his El Fuerte , would watch him anytime
Justin Wong making quality content i love it
This man made a video about himself. Respect to the goat 🤘🤘
This was a history lesson I enjoyed
I used to play and watch a lot of Tekken Tag back in the day. When I think goat my mind automatically goes to Jang Iksu. It might be easier found now, but back then at least, I can't recall any videos of him losing a set. Again I'm not confirming he's undefeated, but back then through the minimal tournament footage we had, and the Korean weeklys, he at least went on an incredibly long winning streak through top competition.
I didn’t hear that name ( jang lksu ) in forever to the point it left my memory bank for a second until you mentioned him again you my friend know your tekken history
I agree with you Justin in this list, yet I want to mention someone who truly deserves some recognition: Bunbun-maru. He is basically the true OG, the guy that when in the west people were playing fighting games almost only for button mashing or simple fun he was already the modern equivalent of a esport player and a TV celebrity in Japan in, like, 1994. He is still respected and admired in Japan to this day.
Daigo always inspire me to get better and just keep playing!
I love that you have PUNK on the thumbnail 🐐 🙌🏻❤
Arslan Ash won 4 evos ,twt finals, 2 combo breakers, thaiger uppercut , CEO , Gamers 8 and uprising in korea in tekken 7 and made top 8 in kof 15 in combo breaker while playing tekken 7 and wining in tekken 7 and playing street fighter.
Arlan Ash only dominated in one game the same way Infiltration dominated SF4 and SF5 in 2015-2017. I wouldn't put him at goat status.
Even in tekken, he's not the goat. I'll reserve that until he wins 8 and 9 the same way other goats like JW, Tokido, and Sonicfox could win across multiple generations and genres.
@@bboygenetics9882I wouldn't put Sonicfox anywhere near them until he starts winning major tournamnets at actual good games with the best interenational competition. For Ash to smash the best of Korea and Japan at a hard game like Tekken while still being able to compete with the Mexicans at another hard game in KOF makes him worthy of a mention.
@@atuls55 idk man. I just can't put him in the discussion when he's only won in one game. If he can win in KoF, then we can have a discussion. As of now, I wouldn't even put him as a tekken goat. If he dominates 8 and 9 too, then sure.
@@bboygenetics9882 Even then, Sonicfox isn't worthy of the conversation when Tokido dominated more in more games of more genres. Sonicfox is basically good at games only NA plays bar DBFZ and even DBFZ, he got caught up pretty quickly and doesn't compare to the french domination for example.
@@Hazakura-in I don't think Sonicfox is goat worthy either. Just using him as an example since he was the best in multiple games. Gives him a better argument than Arslan
You're definitely in the conversation. Once upon a time I'd have said Infiltration, but he ruined it. This topic would be a great episode of Triple KO.
I agree with your ending words. Most people use the word goat to bring one person up and bring everyone else down. It is used too much to ignore all the accomplishments of everyone in the same category.
finally someone mentioning sonicfox, like hes not my goat but my god the disrespect in some of the discussions
Sonicfox Is insane. Simultaneously being #1 at DBFZ, Skullgirls and MK, 3 completely different games with completely different mechanics, is unbelievable.
Great video...very balanced, factual and as others said, you're not throwing shade, just speaking the truth.
Good on you for speaking out. So much disrespect to the players who paved the way for the new guard.
Humble, Justin, any real one knows you're etched in the stars as one of the FGC gods.
The level of play pioneered by the OGs is why competitive fighting games are capable of being the world spectator phenomena they are. Always respect. PS: of course JWong is on the shortest of short lists. Straight lifetime polygamer savant and many times champion.
YOU ARE ONE OF THE GOATs JUSTIN FOR FGCs
I agree 1,000%. Thank you for posting this rant. As an almost 40 year old FGC head myself I need these young people coming in to know the history of how this genre and international community grew from our $100 tournament grand prize winning seeds. 😂
Wong GOAT
Love this Video!!!
Your knowledge of fgc history is VERY VALUABLE, more than me, your or other people may realize.
Amazing points. I think a lot of the time the term “goat” is tossed around without the actual meaning being taken into consideration. Loosely tossed around as a “that person is really good” - I have a hard time taking it seriously as the “greatest of all time”.
For me it's you and sonic. Yalls dominance spans multiple games. That is insane to do especially at the highest level at at multiple games.
I too always use basketball as an analogy for fighting games but their trajectory run parallel to each other.
People also sleep on Zakunoko. He won DBFZ world finals, Street Fighter evo or Capcom Cup, and multiple Guilty Gear big tournament. 8 times capcom cup finalist and so much more
Being a gaming nerd 24/7 will do it
Great points, Justin. As great as Mena already is at Street Fighter, that’s only 1 franchise. You gotta dominate for like an entire decade with basically no losses to be an FGC goat while playing only 1 game, imo.
Also I’m glad somebody with reputation mentioned Sonicfox as being on their Mount Rushmore of fgc goats. Too many tournament wins across multiple games to not at least get a mention in the conversation
I would LOVE to see any of the new players try out ANY of the older titles, like Karnov's Revenge or Kizuna Encounter
Anyway... half-jokes, half-sincere statements aside, let's keep the momentum going! Onward to the next millionaire fighting game tournament!
I think all your points in this video are valid and have a lot of ground to them.
Ryan Hart has more tournament titles than most people have entered. Justin Wong has NINE Evo titles, across multiple games. C'mon bros
Xiaohai really do be beating people with one hand random select though
Goat debates come down to stats a bit, but its usually more subjective than anything. We all have our own GOATS, and for me JWONG is top 3 and i've only really watched his UMVC3 career first hand. Didn't experience any of his Street Fighter history first hand.