Great message! When lifters call the roll cheating because 'an object in motion stays in motion', it always makes my blood pressure spike. The law states 'in a straight line' (i.e. horizontal motion does not contribute to vertical motion).
@@goatlps Pointing out how Eddie's stomach is huge isn't an insult, it's just a fact (and it's all muscle anyway). The title doesn't even mention Eddie, nor does it imply anything related to Eddie... It literally says what the video is about: bad advice.
The note about "personalizing" stands out to me. What I've heard is that programs shouldn't be copy-and-pasted for you, but rather teach you how to program for yourself. After using other's programs for about 2 years, between the varied experience with motions, intensities, and just about every metric, you can figure out what works for you. Then, you go and build the program yourself, occasionally getting advice from others.
From my understanding you are exactly correct. But the issue lies with those willing to learn enough to be able to create a program. A close buddy of mine became a trained and nutritionist. He would really try to encourage people to ask and tell him things. What’s not enough, if they have a medical condition what’s too much. But, most people he trained really didn’t want to learn for themselves, and didn’t even really enjoy him explaining, and wanted him to set everything up. The other thing is, you really want to only copy-paste when you’re just starting, when you have no experience what so ever, and adapt from there. But they’re mostly set as guide lines, rather than the goal / plan.
@@notsoberoveranalyzer8264 I don't like exercising, I only do it because my wealth demands it. So I'd rather just have a personal trainer tell me what to do, so far haven't gotten hurt or injured, all is good... actually, that's a lie. Once I couldn't do a squat cause bar was too heavy, there was someone behind me, couldn't drop the bar and he had to rush towards me, it was pretty funny seeing him running like a madman XD ... My shoulders hurt like hell after that though.
Eddie has actually mentioned few times that he has changed his deadlift style just to achieve that world record and the first thing he did after winning the World Strongest Man is actually losing weight. Unless you go after a world record and you look like Eddie Hall, emulating him will not help. Good words Eugene!
Great point! I met Terry Hollands, a legendary British strongman, and asked him why they roll the bar in and squat back before the lift. He said (in a thick cockney/Jasan Statham accent) that they are too big to get into position, so they need the weight of the bar to pull their body into that lifting position. Then he also pointed out the bar hits their low-shin, not mid-shin like most normal guys. So its like a giant deficit deadlift relative to their size. Also notice on the elevated deadlifts (Brian Shaw aside), they don't roll the bar in.
People seem to forget that when Eddie squats down, he doesn't initiate the lift from that bottom position. Look at 0:15 he's at the full squat with his shoulders behind the bar, but he doesn't actually pull until 0:16 with his hips MUCH higher and his shoulders lined up. That's why he does the big roll as well. It's all about getting a 400+ body into a mechanically advantageous position. I'd also suspect he's using it for a little stretch-reflex. A guy I know who is a 200lb lifter and pulls in the mid-600s does something similar but even more exaggerated.
Dipping down before the pull is something Oly lifters do too though. It's not meant to "squat" the weight up, it just allows you to start your hips in the proper position in a way that's repeatable. As you take the slack out of the bar your hips shoot up to your correct starting position, your hamstrings engage, and that's when the bar actually comes off the floor. It's similar with rolling, it just helps cue your lats, not meant to increase the amount of weight you can lift.
A 76kg natural woman who is deadlifting raw can perhaps study the form of other 76kg lifters in the IPF. That is, until you get into differences in limb length!
Fun fact I tried rolling it (cause that’s what Eddie does) last week when trying my first 405 deadlift and ended up just bashing it into my shins💀 so that’s for the vid🤙 I’ll try again this week🙌
It's a waste of time. The bar ends up travelling in a direction that's 90 degrees to the initial direction. That means it loses 100% of the momentum from the roll
You gotta do what's best for you, huge emphasis on YOU. You study folks to get the idea, then you gotta think about it, study it, then see what applies to you and what doesn't. Your training evolves over time based on your physical and sometimes, mental progression.
Good advice in general to not always look at the best or the anomalies to use as rolemodel.. I see a lot of people following training routines and diets from Hollywood celebrities, but if you're an average person in his 30s with a full time job and taking care of kids, you probably should look for a rolemodel that has a similar lifestyle and situation as you to take advice from and not someone who gets paid millions to look good, has personal trainers and chefs and all the time in the world to get in shape. Of course it comes down to it being cool or the latest trend that people want to be a part of, but you're not doing yourself any favors that way.
Yup. Don't look at Michael Phelps to learn about swimming. He's a physical freak and you're not. Look at the fastest swimmer in the world who is born with arms, torso, etc that are of normal size.
a guy on here called Zack Telander has had some great videos about this called stuff like "You are not Lü Xiaojun" the point of which is the forms and methods of elite athletes are ones tailor made to work for them and they have spent their whole career developing the techinque often over the course of their entire adolsence and young adulthood. So doing the squat jerk is what worked for Lü but that doesn't mean it's the best way to do it for everyone.
i do similar to how eddie drops his hips into the deadlift. works for me so dont discount the method. allows me to recruit more legs into the lift, otherwise my back cant stay straight and end up arching
i needed that information with the stomach! im a big guy and my stomach always gets my back rounded by hitting my legs. will def try this out instantly tomorrow
To be honest, my oppinion is that your personal best tehnique will come to you naturally if you lift heavy often, because when you're really giving it your all, your body will automatically move into the strongest position by "instinct", this is how i personally discovered that when i do conventional deadlifts, fully raising my hips is not my strongest position, I am significantly stronger if i leave my hips somwhere in the middle, and bring them forward a bit, getting my knees over the bar
@@R3dCol0r Not entirely, but it does make sense. Your body will tend to move naturally and in the movement at which it is stronger. When you pick something up you naturally deadlift. That is what your body is meant to do. Doesn't mean you shouldn't study technique, but at the end of the day everybody is different and you need to see what works for you
@@IAmTheRealUsopperGoddamnit No it doesn't make sense at all. It's dumb bro science that gets people hurt. People don't automatically lift in the most optimal position.
This is actually horrible, horrible "advice". And I'm amazed so many people are liking this comment. Why do you think even elite lifters hire coaches to help them with their thechnique? Why do you think elite lifters often have fixed routine when they setup their position before the lift? It's not because the body naturally moves into the best position by "instinct". In fact I can safely say it's the opposite. Your body easily reverts back to bad and suboptimal positions if you do not actively keep a close eye on your technique. Hell, even at work people need to constantly be reminded to "lift your legs and not with your back". Please don't listen to these bro science comments, it's just injuries waiting to happen.
Also, why do you think so many people suffer from bad posture and are slouching for example? It's because the body naturally moves into these bad positions because of weak muscles in certain areas. People are naturally hunched over if they have weaker back muscles for example. And these weak muscles will only get weaker, and these bad postures will only get worse, if we do not actively force our bodies into the correct postures.
Using straps can also make getting into your starting position more difficult. Depending on how you would normally set up for a deadlift. Rolling the bar in will help with this too
So, I’ve found the problem with straps is the difficulty with the ability to pulls slack out of the bar which inherently will allow you to pull yourself into a position where you can engage your lats and push further into the platform.
I deadlift with a fairly wide stance similar to jerry Pritchett or Brian a Shaw due to my hip shape. I also roll the bar, i weight 295 lbs. as I gained weight through my strength journey I recognized my setup for deadlift changed based off my leverages.
Well said. There was a live seminar of sorts with Eddie, he doesn't teach the deadlift the way he did it on the 500kg lift. That's just too specific to that situation. I tried, and almost fell backwards. And thanks for the wake up call, gotta lose some weight again. 🙃
I agree people shouldn't follow what pro lifters do just because they do them, pro lifters have different goals to typical lifters. However, IMO your first two points are just plain wrong. Your point about squatting to deadlift is ignoring the biomechanic advantages of that position, which is the primary reason to use it. Essentially you have two options, either you squat into position, or you don't sink your hips and instead rely on a deeper hinge for the deadlift. The deeper hinge puts a heavier mechanical load on your back relative to the squat position, simply because in the squat position you're less lateral. The other advantage is that you can leverage your quads to start the first half of the lift, and in a position that's mechanically advantageous for them, i.e. a half-squat position (since you're not usually going as far down as you would on a typical squat) Second as someone who does have a large belly, my belly actually gets more in the way when I do the squat position vs if I started higher up. Being in the starting squat position requires more folding which means my belly gets more squished up into my legs. However the biomechanics advantages of the position outweight the discomfort of it. also I just like the roll because I can get into a secure position, then position the deadlift bar where I need to start.
Great video, Eugene. I've seen many people at the gym (particularly younger people, like high school students) who try to replicate the way certain athletes on social media deadlift, like Eddie Hall, Hafþór 'Thor' Júlíus Björnsson, Larry Wheels etc. and they try to do a similar setup to their own deadlifting... like rolling the barbell away, then back toward themselves, before attempting to rip the barbell off the floor without 'taking the slack' out of the bar, little to no leg drive, and/or activation of correct muscles (no lat and/or core engagement, Sydney Harbour Bridge shaped spine etc.) but they unfortunately do it this way because hey, the strongest people in the world do it, so it must be right... right? I appreciate and enjoy seeing educational, helpful content like this, and I hope these young people I see at the gym see such resources like your video. They could learn a lot.
I request you to cover some topics on recovery for an intermediate lifter. Deadlifting twice bodyweight was almost linear, after that, I struggle with recovery even on a well-structured program.
Deadlift heavy less frequent with more lighter accesories or do very high frequency with a moderate weight with less ACCESORIES. For the last one look into f ex Boris Sheikos programs
agree with this guy ^. i spun my wheels at 2x bw for months. lowering overall volume and eating more pushed me through it. also weirdly i got burnt out with focusing on dl at about 2.3x bw and put it on maintenance for a while and focused on getting my squat to a comparable standard. whether it was the shedding of fatigue or actual carry over from the squat I dont know but when i came back i busted through to 2.5x bw fairly quickly
It's funny how some folks will copy Eddie in rolling the bar during a deadlift, but almost nobody thinks they should also copy Eddie in getting their body weight up to 200kg.
Totally totally agree. It's also common in the martial arts industry for people to get injured copying the training of someone with far superior (lucky) genetics or completely different backgrounds.
@@coacheugeneteo I get you man, thanks for responsing I appreciate it! I wasn't hating on your video, it does have some really interesting and valid points!
Does anyone ever talk about the how amazingly strong the human grip is. It takes your whole body to lift the weight but holding it doesn’t get talked about much. Hold 500 kilos with just the grip alone is amazing. The average human can hold hundreds of pounds without any training. Please describe the mechanics or techniques of that works please.
I don't think anyone is holding 500 kilos with pure grip. Eddie and Thor used figure-8 straps. Jamal Browner uses hook grip, which utilizes a similar principle without the need for straps.
@@martinbalaz6601 i don’t think anyone is holding 500k either. My statement written weird. We just have a grip that holds more than we squat or deadlift… it baffles me.
The other obvious reason is that he’s lifting for a 1RM. I can’t imagine rolling the bar in, lifting, bringing the bar back down, rolling it out, then rolling it back in for sets of 5, 7, 10 reps etc.
Generally people severally underestimate how your body shape changes the way you lift. Leverages in primis, but fat too. The 'power belly' is actually so big it helps you lift
If you look closely, you'll notice that while Eddie does drop his hips during his Deadlift setup, he raises them again before actually starting his pull. It's possible that doing this help engage the stretch reflex, especially considering that he's using straps and therefore spending more time bent over during his setup.
agree, stretch reflex. also bar rolling is for setting up a perfect position to pull - its not a variable which makes pulling more complicated. It can be a great que in the right hands, its better than the alternative, more reliable. but if u dont understand the mechanics of stretch reflex, dont do bar roll or listen to what i say here.
I know some of you guys are going to think I have beta male jealousy. I respect Eddy and he has accomplished a lot, but I don't think his big belly and diet is healthy and just not something I want to do, whether I could lift as much or not. I know I could not even come close to what he lifts, its not about that thanks. Much respect to Eddie Hall.
I don't roll the bar in quite as dramatically as Eddie in his lift, but I still do it. It's a great cue (for me at least) for building lat tightness before lifting.
also he may squat down low to get in position but notice when he actually STARTS the lift that's not where his hips are. it's just all part of his dynamic start up.
The "an object in motion stays in motion" idea behind rolling the bar in is possibly the most moronic thing I've ever heard. How can one misunderstand physics this hard? The object "stays in motion" AT THE SAME DIRECTION unless acted upon by an unbalanced force - but the direction you roll the barbell in is orthogonal to the direction you want to lift it!
The primary reason super heavyweight lifters roll the bar in is simple - to actually be able to breathe. The deadlift suit makes that even more difficult. Source? I work with a 6'4 360 elite powerlifter who competes both raw and single ply. Also, Eddie is not squatting at the bottom of the deadlift. If you look closely, his hips come up to a very appropriate place before he actually starts the lift. What he's doing is getting his back maximally tight to for the lift. Mike Tuchscherer explains this really well: "As the weights got heavier and my deadlift skill got better, the need for more tightness in the bottom of the lift grew. When you're really tight in the lats and back, the bar will be close to the shins. Since my setup has been developed a few inches away from the bar, I've developed a roll to transition where the bar begins and where it needs to be by the start of the pull. I'm not sure it's the best way to do it from a learning standpoint, but I am to the point where I can control the variability of the start to a good degree. Roll or no roll, it's more important to be tight in the bottom."" So a SHW often needs to roll the bar because it takes a bit longer to set up and it's not possible to hold the breath that long. The extended bar allows them to breathe and take that last big breath. Then rolling the bar in, they can use that as leverage, including squatting low, to get their back really tight. Then they start coming up and pull like everyone else. I've developed a saying "there are SHW lifters and everyone else". They are a beast of their own, and if you don't have experience working with them, a lot of coaching advice that is great for a 150-200lb lifter, even 270lb lifters, just doesn't apply. The same can be said of lifters who use PEDs and those that don't. Female vs male lifters. Equipped vs raw lifters. Those that lift extremely heavy weights vs those that don't.
I really like Eugene, but I think this video is really badly titled. Never ever have I heard a strongman (I follow the sport) adviced you to squat down and roll the bar. Eddie/Thor/Martins Licis etc. does it because of what Eugene describes; they are big, used to it, and feel like a dynamic start suits them. Martins' style is also more or less squatting the deadlift because he's so powerful from the bottom position. The same way Benni Magnusson shouts at the bar, the same way Rauno Heinla coughs every time before a big lift, these are techniques the best in the world uses as queues. This video in whole is excellent, the title isn't.
I’m not a pro lifter by any means but I do my research. I often workout with different people with different levels of lifting knowledge, and I keep hearing this “you’re performing this exercise wrong, Arnold did it like that” or “I noticed that pro bodybuilders swing while curling, try it in your workout instead of being strict, it’ll allow you to lift more weight”. You can’t even convince them because you don’t have the same level prestige as these lifters.
Studying the greats and properly analyzing the techniques for your specific case is such an incredibly valuable idea that applies to almost every aspect of life. Great points and great vid! 😎
Lol mentioning platz, that bloke wasn't normal. Just stumbled onto you on RUclips, nice to see a fellow Melbourner who knows their stuff! Keep it up brother.
"He's arguably one of the best deadlifters in the entire world". Eugene there is absolutely no argument, of course he is, he's Eddie Fucking Hall. However, great advice otherwise, cheers.
now someones finally on the topic. Lat pulldowns behind the neck, i was getting great results with lightweight never heavy because i saw ronnie coleman doing it. I was around 20 and a man with zero muscle or power but older, probably in his 40's came over and gave me a lecture that i'd injure myself. It still angers me around a decade later. Do you have any opinions on pulldown behind the neck.
The only thing you’re 100% right about is not choosing a posture based on what a stranger is doing. That includes you. The reason the bar is lifted more easily in motion can be described with absolute certainty through high school level physics. 100% incorrect on that one. Stop telling people what not to do, you are always at least somewhat wrong. Telling people what not to do requires in depth assessment of that person. You are putting blinders on novices. Tell people what to do, you clearly have good advice to offer.
Moral of the story experiment with different styles until something clicks and don't force yourself into a box...just because your favorite youtuber does it a certain way.
Well there is a dumb fact I know is you're comparing yourself to Lipton maybe 50 to 150 lb but because Eddie is not lifting something like she's lifting something about over 300 lb maybe it was 500 out especially you got to realize when you start lifting something that heavy you not going to do something like perfect form it is very difficult to lift heavier and yes you don't understand please do not compare yourself to a strong man you don't pull a bus or airplane and yes do not compare yourself to those type of level
Well you might say they have a fats but actually they are kind of big like sumo wrestlers beliefs about 20% of body fat and most of that is muscle at least 80% to 75% of muscle then yes what comes to their lifting you would have a crazy appetite because they're lifting the extreme heavyweights beyond your own level of capability remember you don't even lift a car like they do or pull a plane of their Tire body you think about do lift over more than 500 lb so I won't be shocked if you would be eaten having high tablets and body and you would be thinking your they are fat know they are absolutely have a body of a god
Yeah i see regular sized people doing this all the time and all it does is fuck up their deadlift form. Most people can't do a quick grab and pull deadlift either. If you don't have issues getting in to position, just grab the bar, get ready and pull instead of trying to emulate something like Eddie Hall or John Haack.
So, I’m a bigger gentleman who is a 600 pound deadlifter and am able to deadlift conventional with a pretty narrow stance. I’ve seen similar people at my size or even smaller having to roll out the bar but I do hammer my mobility more than the people who I’ve previously mentioned.
it's not because top tier athletes do it, that you should do it. They know exactly what's right for them, but that doesn't mean it applies to everyone. also: 0:38 this (pretty good looking) woman has some insane flexibility
agreed. what people also forget is that the best in the world are often those for whom things come easily, and as such are often surprisingly ignorant of knowledge we though was common. they also all think 'their' way of training is the best, but they all often train very differently. yes, study them, but take it with a pinch of salt. they talk alot of shit as well. eddie swears by cranberry juice despite there being almost no evidence it makes any difference. tom platz swears by squats, but seems to be unaware that some people are just not built for squatting. etc etc.
its actually good do that things, if u lift 10+ years u know where u want start your deadlift, but if u starting with deadlift rolling barbell fuck up your technique
People forget that momentum has direction. You're completely changing the direction of that momentum when you pick the bar up, meaning rolling it toward you does absolutely nothing to enhance the lift.
Ho rolled the bar in order to engage his muscles in motion before the start of the lift, which helps in the lift. In training one doesn't break records and doesn't need to do it but it doesn't harm and maybe helps while maxing out. Besides deadlift is dangerous and harmful and is better avoided unless one is going professional. You can argue that it's very good for strength development but no doubt it it's also a good destroyer of the spine no matter how good your form is. Leg press, especially the way you showed it with knees to your shoulders is another example of low back destroyer.
„An object in motion, stays in motion“ Yeah, in the direction of the original force. If you have to stop the bar from hitting your shins you are putting extra energy in. When you change the direction the bar is moving by lifting you are putting extra energy in
Not to mention the fact that he was extremely, extremely dehydrated
wait why was he dehydrated?
@@labibahasan8302 He had a bodybuilding comp right after the lift he had to attend.
Very extremely dehydrated!
@@morezombies9685 thanks for the clarification, I had no idea that bodybuilders dehydrate themselves. The more you know
@@labibahasan8302 Ran out of cranberry juice
Great message! When lifters call the roll cheating because 'an object in motion stays in motion', it always makes my blood pressure spike. The law states 'in a straight line' (i.e. horizontal motion does not contribute to vertical motion).
😆😆 you get it bro 👏👏
Not true. The problem with the “in motion” claim is that the weight stops before being pulled up.
Yeah, don't you hate it when you're rolling a bolling ball down the lane and it spontaneously jumps up in the air?
@@leonjohansen1818 funny that you used a word for ‘without external forces.’
@@eclipsewrecker try it with a trap bar and post your results
Great information and very respectful to Eddy Hall as well. Educational and classy 10/10
Thank you! 🙏
LOL apart from the pregnancy suit. Also, the title implies Hall had given out bad advice.
@@goatlps Pointing out how Eddie's stomach is huge isn't an insult, it's just a fact (and it's all muscle anyway). The title doesn't even mention Eddie, nor does it imply anything related to Eddie... It literally says what the video is about: bad advice.
@@stevenglikin3219 his stomach is not all muscle lol, lots of fat when he was at his heaviest
@@elantonelle At his heaviest he still had the bmi of an average adult. His abs were just so big they gave him a round belly.
Eugene, you're an asset to my life. Thank you for explaining so much to us laypeople
Glad you enjoy it!
The note about "personalizing" stands out to me. What I've heard is that programs shouldn't be copy-and-pasted for you, but rather teach you how to program for yourself. After using other's programs for about 2 years, between the varied experience with motions, intensities, and just about every metric, you can figure out what works for you. Then, you go and build the program yourself, occasionally getting advice from others.
From my understanding you are exactly correct.
But the issue lies with those willing to learn enough to be able to create a program.
A close buddy of mine became a trained and nutritionist. He would really try to encourage people to ask and tell him things.
What’s not enough, if they have a medical condition what’s too much.
But, most people he trained really didn’t want to learn for themselves, and didn’t even really enjoy him explaining, and wanted him to set everything up.
The other thing is, you really want to only copy-paste when you’re just starting, when you have no experience what so ever, and adapt from there. But they’re mostly set as guide lines, rather than the goal / plan.
@@notsoberoveranalyzer8264 I don't like exercising, I only do it because my wealth demands it. So I'd rather just have a personal trainer tell me what to do, so far haven't gotten hurt or injured, all is good... actually, that's a lie.
Once I couldn't do a squat cause bar was too heavy, there was someone behind me, couldn't drop the bar and he had to rush towards me, it was pretty funny seeing him running like a madman XD
...
My shoulders hurt like hell after that though.
So i need to grow a Power belly first 😯🤫
Done, what's next?
@@butterpecanrican_ a thick beard
@@NAVEENCHAURASIYAA I'm battling a couple of chin hairs lol
Eddie has actually mentioned few times that he has changed his deadlift style just to achieve that world record and the first thing he did after winning the World Strongest Man is actually losing weight. Unless you go after a world record and you look like Eddie Hall, emulating him will not help. Good words Eugene!
As a 5lbs dumbbell, I can relate.
As the mirror i can confirm
I don't get it
I don't get.
Great point! I met Terry Hollands, a legendary British strongman, and asked him why they roll the bar in and squat back before the lift. He said (in a thick cockney/Jasan Statham accent) that they are too big to get into position, so they need the weight of the bar to pull their body into that lifting position. Then he also pointed out the bar hits their low-shin, not mid-shin like most normal guys. So its like a giant deficit deadlift relative to their size. Also notice on the elevated deadlifts (Brian Shaw aside), they don't roll the bar in.
Really refreshing with content applying critical thinking which sadly is far and few between in todays often dogmatic fitness industry, bravo Eugene!
Thank you! 🙏
0:38 Eyes up here guys
People seem to forget that when Eddie squats down, he doesn't initiate the lift from that bottom position. Look at 0:15 he's at the full squat with his shoulders behind the bar, but he doesn't actually pull until 0:16 with his hips MUCH higher and his shoulders lined up. That's why he does the big roll as well. It's all about getting a 400+ body into a mechanically advantageous position. I'd also suspect he's using it for a little stretch-reflex. A guy I know who is a 200lb lifter and pulls in the mid-600s does something similar but even more exaggerated.
Dipping down before the pull is something Oly lifters do too though. It's not meant to "squat" the weight up, it just allows you to start your hips in the proper position in a way that's repeatable. As you take the slack out of the bar your hips shoot up to your correct starting position, your hamstrings engage, and that's when the bar actually comes off the floor. It's similar with rolling, it just helps cue your lats, not meant to increase the amount of weight you can lift.
A 76kg natural woman who is deadlifting raw can perhaps study the form of other 76kg lifters in the IPF. That is, until you get into differences in limb length!
0:48 wow, I didn't realize Eddie himself was gonna be in the vid! Cool stuff
Fun fact I tried rolling it (cause that’s what Eddie does) last week when trying my first 405 deadlift and ended up just bashing it into my shins💀 so that’s for the vid🤙 I’ll try again this week🙌
It's a waste of time. The bar ends up travelling in a direction that's 90 degrees to the initial direction. That means it loses 100% of the momentum from the roll
You gotta do what's best for you, huge emphasis on YOU. You study folks to get the idea, then you gotta think about it, study it, then see what applies to you and what doesn't. Your training evolves over time based on your physical and sometimes, mental progression.
Eugene would never lift dehydrated
Good advice in general to not always look at the best or the anomalies to use as rolemodel.. I see a lot of people following training routines and diets from Hollywood celebrities, but if you're an average person in his 30s with a full time job and taking care of kids, you probably should look for a rolemodel that has a similar lifestyle and situation as you to take advice from and not someone who gets paid millions to look good, has personal trainers and chefs and all the time in the world to get in shape.
Of course it comes down to it being cool or the latest trend that people want to be a part of, but you're not doing yourself any favors that way.
Yup. Don't look at Michael Phelps to learn about swimming. He's a physical freak and you're not. Look at the fastest swimmer in the world who is born with arms, torso, etc that are of normal size.
a guy on here called Zack Telander has had some great videos about this called stuff like "You are not Lü Xiaojun" the point of which is the forms and methods of elite athletes are ones tailor made to work for them and they have spent their whole career developing the techinque often over the course of their entire adolsence and young adulthood. So doing the squat jerk is what worked for Lü but that doesn't mean it's the best way to do it for everyone.
I will disagree with you regarding the big belly. Is not because of his belly. Lasha Talakhadze has a big belly but he doesn't need to roll the bar.
No chance those were natural. Her shirt was as tight as it could be yet no deformation? Very nice, but fake
This is why I coil my weener up like a pigs tail, at the bottom of the lift it acts like a spring, propelling me to new PR’s
i do similar to how eddie drops his hips into the deadlift. works for me so dont discount the method. allows me to recruit more legs into the lift, otherwise my back cant stay straight and end up arching
i needed that information with the stomach! im a big guy and my stomach always gets my back rounded by hitting my legs. will def try this out instantly tomorrow
bro you guys are down bad. Don't pretend that you don't see that most replayed.
To be honest, my oppinion is that your personal best tehnique will come to you naturally if you lift heavy often, because when you're really giving it your all, your body will automatically move into the strongest position by "instinct", this is how i personally discovered that when i do conventional deadlifts, fully raising my hips is not my strongest position, I am significantly stronger if i leave my hips somwhere in the middle, and bring them forward a bit, getting my knees over the bar
Yeahh no.
@@R3dCol0r Not entirely, but it does make sense. Your body will tend to move naturally and in the movement at which it is stronger. When you pick something up you naturally deadlift. That is what your body is meant to do. Doesn't mean you shouldn't study technique, but at the end of the day everybody is different and you need to see what works for you
@@IAmTheRealUsopperGoddamnit No it doesn't make sense at all. It's dumb bro science that gets people hurt.
People don't automatically lift in the most optimal position.
This is actually horrible, horrible "advice". And I'm amazed so many people are liking this comment.
Why do you think even elite lifters hire coaches to help them with their thechnique?
Why do you think elite lifters often have fixed routine when they setup their position before the lift?
It's not because the body naturally moves into the best position by "instinct". In fact I can safely say it's the opposite.
Your body easily reverts back to bad and suboptimal positions if you do not actively keep a close eye on your technique.
Hell, even at work people need to constantly be reminded to "lift your legs and not with your back".
Please don't listen to these bro science comments, it's just injuries waiting to happen.
Also, why do you think so many people suffer from bad posture and are slouching for example?
It's because the body naturally moves into these bad positions because of weak muscles in certain areas.
People are naturally hunched over if they have weaker back muscles for example.
And these weak muscles will only get weaker, and these bad postures will only get worse, if we do not actively force our bodies into the correct postures.
Using straps can also make getting into your starting position more difficult. Depending on how you would normally set up for a deadlift. Rolling the bar in will help with this too
So, I’ve found the problem with straps is the difficulty with the ability to pulls slack out of the bar which inherently will allow you to pull yourself into a position where you can engage your lats and push further into the platform.
@@FDT222 You can easily pull the slack out of the bar with straps, dafuk
I deadlift with a fairly wide stance similar to jerry Pritchett or Brian a Shaw due to my hip shape. I also roll the bar, i weight 295 lbs. as I gained weight through my strength journey I recognized my setup for deadlift changed based off my leverages.
Well said. There was a live seminar of sorts with Eddie, he doesn't teach the deadlift the way he did it on the 500kg lift. That's just too specific to that situation. I tried, and almost fell backwards.
And thanks for the wake up call, gotta lose some weight again. 🙃
I agree people shouldn't follow what pro lifters do just because they do them, pro lifters have different goals to typical lifters. However, IMO your first two points are just plain wrong.
Your point about squatting to deadlift is ignoring the biomechanic advantages of that position, which is the primary reason to use it. Essentially you have two options, either you squat into position, or you don't sink your hips and instead rely on a deeper hinge for the deadlift. The deeper hinge puts a heavier mechanical load on your back relative to the squat position, simply because in the squat position you're less lateral. The other advantage is that you can leverage your quads to start the first half of the lift, and in a position that's mechanically advantageous for them, i.e. a half-squat position (since you're not usually going as far down as you would on a typical squat)
Second as someone who does have a large belly, my belly actually gets more in the way when I do the squat position vs if I started higher up. Being in the starting squat position requires more folding which means my belly gets more squished up into my legs. However the biomechanics advantages of the position outweight the discomfort of it.
also I just like the roll because I can get into a secure position, then position the deadlift bar where I need to start.
Those points you brought up are exactly what I talk about and align with in the video.
so many different shots for a 3 minute video, the bts for this valuable short clip must be insane hard work. Thank you Eugene for your content!
The bar roll enables you sit and get reflex action from the suit similar to squatting.
So is it still a deadlift?
Great video, Eugene.
I've seen many people at the gym (particularly younger people, like high school students) who try to replicate the way certain athletes on social media deadlift, like Eddie Hall, Hafþór 'Thor' Júlíus Björnsson, Larry Wheels etc. and they try to do a similar setup to their own deadlifting... like rolling the barbell away, then back toward themselves, before attempting to rip the barbell off the floor without 'taking the slack' out of the bar, little to no leg drive, and/or activation of correct muscles (no lat and/or core engagement, Sydney Harbour Bridge shaped spine etc.) but they unfortunately do it this way because hey, the strongest people in the world do it, so it must be right... right?
I appreciate and enjoy seeing educational, helpful content like this, and I hope these young people I see at the gym see such resources like your video. They could learn a lot.
The best in the world do take out the slack, do have leg drive, do have core and lat engagement. So you're just hating on people simply doing it wrong
They are copying the things that are useless but visually obvious, while not copying the things that are more important but visually subtle.
I request you to cover some topics on recovery for an intermediate lifter. Deadlifting twice bodyweight was almost linear, after that, I struggle with recovery even on a well-structured program.
Deadlift heavy less frequent with more lighter accesories or do very high frequency with a moderate weight with less ACCESORIES. For the last one look into f ex Boris Sheikos programs
agree with this guy ^. i spun my wheels at 2x bw for months. lowering overall volume and eating more pushed me through it. also weirdly i got burnt out with focusing on dl at about 2.3x bw and put it on maintenance for a while and focused on getting my squat to a comparable standard. whether it was the shedding of fatigue or actual carry over from the squat I dont know but when i came back i busted through to 2.5x bw fairly quickly
It's funny how some folks will copy Eddie in rolling the bar during a deadlift, but almost nobody thinks they should also copy Eddie in getting their body weight up to 200kg.
🤣🤣 truth
Totally totally agree. It's also common in the martial arts industry for people to get injured copying the training of someone with far superior (lucky) genetics or completely different backgrounds.
This feels a bit clickbait because Eddie never told anyone to deadlift like this, you even said yourself he has videos explaining form
I never said he told anyone to deadlift like this 😂 that's not the point. The point is people saying "do it because XYZ does it"
@@coacheugeneteo I just meant the title comes off that way
@@coacheugeneteo Its not advice if they never actually say it?
@@weightinglist it's not his advice. That's why I say so at the end.
Again, it's the advice of "do it because XYZ did it" that is bad.
@@coacheugeneteo I get you man, thanks for responsing I appreciate it! I wasn't hating on your video, it does have some really interesting and valid points!
Amazing, simple amazing 👏🏾 👊🏾
I am short and slightly fat like eddie, so rolling the bar towards me, helped me achieve a DL PR of 130 Kgs yesterday, I am 5'5 and 142 pounds
@@1newme425 hehe
Does anyone ever talk about the how amazingly strong the human grip is. It takes your whole body to lift the weight but holding it doesn’t get talked about much. Hold 500 kilos with just the grip alone is amazing. The average human can hold hundreds of pounds without any training. Please describe the mechanics or techniques of that works please.
I don't think anyone is holding 500 kilos with pure grip. Eddie and Thor used figure-8 straps. Jamal Browner uses hook grip, which utilizes a similar principle without the need for straps.
@@martinbalaz6601 i don’t think anyone is holding 500k either. My statement written weird. We just have a grip that holds more than we squat or deadlift… it baffles me.
@@RandomPersonToStirUpThings you must be speaking when someone does a pull up that our grip can hold our bodies
@@MutantCyborg001 holding your own body weight is still amazing giving the size of the muscle. The forearm muscles are strong.
Yh forearms and calfs are both crazy strong
He literally put a bosu ball inside 🤣
Why am I first here at 3am 😅😴
The other obvious reason is that he’s lifting for a 1RM. I can’t imagine rolling the bar in, lifting, bringing the bar back down, rolling it out, then rolling it back in for sets of 5, 7, 10 reps etc.
Alan Thrall has a great dead lift video from about 8 months ago. Also well worth checking out!
YEAHHHHHHHHHH BUDDDDDDDDDYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Lol....had a boyfriend in the 80s say that all the time 😊😊
Generally people severally underestimate how your body shape changes the way you lift.
Leverages in primis, but fat too. The 'power belly' is actually so big it helps you lift
If you look closely, you'll notice that while Eddie does drop his hips during his Deadlift setup, he raises them again before actually starting his pull. It's possible that doing this help engage the stretch reflex, especially considering that he's using straps and therefore spending more time bent over during his setup.
agree, stretch reflex. also bar rolling is for setting up a perfect position to pull - its not a variable which makes pulling more complicated. It can be a great que in the right hands, its better than the alternative, more reliable. but if u dont understand the mechanics of stretch reflex, dont do bar roll or listen to what i say here.
Sir why cut ur hair 😂
You’re one of the only people I’ve seen talk about why Eddie’s technique works for him, most have just bashed it without saying why it helped him
You are really top class Eugene 💪🏽🙌🏽 thanks for setting the bar high⚡️
Thank you! 🙏
0:00 Cannon Mannon
0:39 Perky
I know some of you guys are going to think I have beta male jealousy. I respect Eddy and he has accomplished a lot, but I don't think his big belly and diet is healthy and just not something I want to do, whether I could lift as much or not. I know I could not even come close to what he lifts, its not about that thanks. Much respect to Eddie Hall.
I don't roll the bar in quite as dramatically as Eddie in his lift, but I still do it. It's a great cue (for me at least) for building lat tightness before lifting.
Very well explained!
also he may squat down low to get in position but notice when he actually STARTS the lift that's not where his hips are. it's just all part of his dynamic start up.
Okay i get that rolling the barbell in isnt so usefull, but what is wrong with squatting? Doesnt that cause you to have more legdrive and lift more?
Poor eddie, he is pregnant since like 15 years
You are like a breath of fresh air.
Thank you for doing what you are doing.
The "an object in motion stays in motion" idea behind rolling the bar in is possibly the most moronic thing I've ever heard. How can one misunderstand physics this hard?
The object "stays in motion" AT THE SAME DIRECTION unless acted upon by an unbalanced force - but the direction you roll the barbell in is orthogonal to the direction you want to lift it!
Why isn’t Eddy Hall playing Marvels Kingpin? Wtf? Come on Eddy, you’re literally the living embodiment of Kingpin!
Always great advice...and the belly suit is hilarious and accurate
Editing in this vid is great and the information is hella useful. Thanks Eugene!
Thank you! 🙏
I always go by the Mark Rippetoe videos on form. With deadlifts he's adamant how you DO NOT move the bar except straight up.
Right, we don't study Michelangelo's individual brushstroke, but the entire piece.
The inertia reason (rolling) is clearly from someone that failed basic physics at school. An object in movement keeps in motion in the SAME VECTOR!
The primary reason super heavyweight lifters roll the bar in is simple - to actually be able to breathe. The deadlift suit makes that even more difficult. Source? I work with a 6'4 360 elite powerlifter who competes both raw and single ply.
Also, Eddie is not squatting at the bottom of the deadlift. If you look closely, his hips come up to a very appropriate place before he actually starts the lift. What he's doing is getting his back maximally tight to for the lift. Mike Tuchscherer explains this really well:
"As the weights got heavier and my deadlift skill got better, the need for more tightness in the bottom of the lift grew. When you're really tight in the lats and back, the bar will be close to the shins. Since my setup has been developed a few inches away from the bar, I've developed a roll to transition where the bar begins and where it needs to be by the start of the pull. I'm not sure it's the best way to do it from a learning standpoint, but I am to the point where I can control the variability of the start to a good degree. Roll or no roll, it's more important to be tight in the bottom.""
So a SHW often needs to roll the bar because it takes a bit longer to set up and it's not possible to hold the breath that long. The extended bar allows them to breathe and take that last big breath. Then rolling the bar in, they can use that as leverage, including squatting low, to get their back really tight. Then they start coming up and pull like everyone else.
I've developed a saying "there are SHW lifters and everyone else". They are a beast of their own, and if you don't have experience working with them, a lot of coaching advice that is great for a 150-200lb lifter, even 270lb lifters, just doesn't apply. The same can be said of lifters who use PEDs and those that don't. Female vs male lifters. Equipped vs raw lifters. Those that lift extremely heavy weights vs those that don't.
I really like Eugene, but I think this video is really badly titled.
Never ever have I heard a strongman (I follow the sport) adviced you to squat down and roll the bar. Eddie/Thor/Martins Licis etc. does it because of what Eugene describes; they are big, used to it, and feel like a dynamic start suits them. Martins' style is also more or less squatting the deadlift because he's so powerful from the bottom position.
The same way Benni Magnusson shouts at the bar, the same way Rauno Heinla coughs every time before a big lift, these are techniques the best in the world uses as queues.
This video in whole is excellent, the title isn't.
you are not even close, Eddie did that not because he has big belly, pull 500kg and pull 300kg, 400kg are different techniques
I’m not a pro lifter by any means but I do my research. I often workout with different people with different levels of lifting knowledge, and I keep hearing this “you’re performing this exercise wrong, Arnold did it like that” or “I noticed that pro bodybuilders swing while curling, try it in your workout instead of being strict, it’ll allow you to lift more weight”. You can’t even convince them because you don’t have the same level prestige as these lifters.
Studying the greats and properly analyzing the techniques for your specific case is such an incredibly valuable idea that applies to almost every aspect of life. Great points and great vid! 😎
Don’t tell anyone your plans. Instead, show them your results.
Lol mentioning platz, that bloke wasn't normal.
Just stumbled onto you on RUclips, nice to see a fellow Melbourner who knows their stuff!
Keep it up brother.
"He's arguably one of the best deadlifters in the entire world". Eugene there is absolutely no argument, of course he is, he's Eddie Fucking Hall. However, great advice otherwise, cheers.
now someones finally on the topic. Lat pulldowns behind the neck, i was getting great results with lightweight never heavy because i saw ronnie coleman doing it. I was around 20 and a man with zero muscle or power but older, probably in his 40's came over and gave me a lecture that i'd injure myself. It still angers me around a decade later. Do you have any opinions on pulldown behind the neck.
Joke's on you Teo, I'm a big fat bathtub with limited hip mobility I've probably had since birth... 😹😓
are you making fun of the best deadlifter in the world?
I am a professional snitch. Watch...
"Hey Eddie! He called you fat!"
The only thing you’re 100% right about is not choosing a posture based on what a stranger is doing.
That includes you.
The reason the bar is lifted more easily in motion can be described with absolute certainty through high school level physics.
100% incorrect on that one.
Stop telling people what not to do,
you are always at least somewhat wrong.
Telling people what not to do requires in depth assessment of that person.
You are putting blinders on novices.
Tell people what to do,
you clearly have good advice to offer.
Good stuff. Going forward, the belly suit needs to be standard in your videos. This physique meets 70% of Americans where they are at.
You Teollll them Eugene. More sage stuff from one of the most balanced and impartial pros out there
Moral of the story experiment with different styles until something clicks and don't force yourself into a box...just because your favorite youtuber does it a certain way.
Well there is a dumb fact I know is you're comparing yourself to Lipton maybe 50 to 150 lb but because Eddie is not lifting something like she's lifting something about over 300 lb maybe it was 500 out especially you got to realize when you start lifting something that heavy you not going to do something like perfect form it is very difficult to lift heavier and yes you don't understand please do not compare yourself to a strong man you don't pull a bus or airplane and yes do not compare yourself to those type of level
Doesnt start form on deadlift ENTIRELY depend on your body structure and levers? Like no duh his stance isnt a one size fits all stance.
Well you might say they have a fats but actually they are kind of big like sumo wrestlers beliefs about 20% of body fat and most of that is muscle at least 80% to 75% of muscle then yes what comes to their lifting you would have a crazy appetite because they're lifting the extreme heavyweights beyond your own level of capability remember you don't even lift a car like they do or pull a plane of their Tire body you think about do lift over more than 500 lb so I won't be shocked if you would be eaten having high tablets and body and you would be thinking your they are fat know they are absolutely have a body of a god
Yeah i see regular sized people doing this all the time and all it does is fuck up their deadlift form. Most people can't do a quick grab and pull deadlift either. If you don't have issues getting in to position, just grab the bar, get ready and pull instead of trying to emulate something like Eddie Hall or John Haack.
So, I’m a bigger gentleman who is a 600 pound deadlifter and am able to deadlift conventional with a pretty narrow stance.
I’ve seen similar people at my size or even smaller having to roll out the bar but I do hammer my mobility more than the people who I’ve previously mentioned.
it's not because top tier athletes do it, that you should do it. They know exactly what's right for them, but that doesn't mean it applies to everyone.
also: 0:38 this (pretty good looking) woman has some insane flexibility
Excellent video. Save rolling a bar around for the kitchen folks...
Did you deliberately post this now because you know that a lot of lifters will be following Eddie halls channel during WSM?
agreed. what people also forget is that the best in the world are often those for whom things come easily, and as such are often surprisingly ignorant of knowledge we though was common. they also all think 'their' way of training is the best, but they all often train very differently.
yes, study them, but take it with a pinch of salt. they talk alot of shit as well. eddie swears by cranberry juice despite there being almost no evidence it makes any difference. tom platz swears by squats, but seems to be unaware that some people are just not built for squatting. etc etc.
its actually good do that things, if u lift 10+ years u know where u want start your deadlift, but if u starting with deadlift rolling barbell fuck up your technique
People forget that momentum has direction. You're completely changing the direction of that momentum when you pick the bar up, meaning rolling it toward you does absolutely nothing to enhance the lift.
Ho rolled the bar in order to engage his muscles in motion before the start of the lift, which helps in the lift. In training one doesn't break records and doesn't need to do it but it doesn't harm and maybe helps while maxing out. Besides deadlift is dangerous and harmful and is better avoided unless one is going professional. You can argue that it's very good for strength development but no doubt it it's also a good destroyer of the spine no matter how good your form is. Leg press, especially the way you showed it with knees to your shoulders is another example of low back destroyer.
This is how educational RUclips videos should be made, straight into the content, no bs, visual and entertaining.
Thank you! 🙏
Remember kids, you want to understand and emulate the bests, not imitate them.
I am a Boxer, and my Idol is Ali, he dodged Punches by just tuning his Chin away, if its good enough for him i can do the same.....said no one ever
„An object in motion, stays in motion“
Yeah, in the direction of the original force. If you have to stop the bar from hitting your shins you are putting extra energy in. When you change the direction the bar is moving by lifting you are putting extra energy in
LIGHTWEIGHT BABBBBBBBBBBYYYYYYYYYYYYY