Notes on Animation: The Thief and the Cobbler
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- A look at the animation and design principles, and techniques used in The Thief and the Cobbler.
I have only scratched the surface of what went into this film!
The majority of this footage is sourced from
The Thief and the Cobbler Recobbled Cut Mark IV, Sept. 2013
Torrent at orangecow.org/b...
Footage Compiled and Restored by Garrett Gilchrist for The Thief Archive
/ thethiefarchive
orangecow.org
Felix Sputnik's 'War Machine' shot breakdown on Vimeo vimeo.com/5379...
Thanks to everyone who worked on the film that I spoke to!
I remember when I started in animation in 1981, William's studio were rushing to complete ten minutes of this, the war machine sequence. Kathy MacDonald was dip pen tracing the cels and would bring her work down the road to Dick Purdum's studio, where I worked. Unbelievable craft, tracing that big crossbow, and the patience, tracing the flies around the thief's head in different shades of grey. Those were inspiring days!
I thought they used xerography
@@vpupkoff for some scenes, most likely. I imagine the more detailed scenes were inked by hand
ZigZag is one of my most favorite animated characters of all time. I love Vincent Price's flowing, rhyming speech and the fact that he has extra fingers. Such a strange and mesmerizing character, more interesting than the protagonist I must say.
Yesss... you don't often see people notice the extra fingers. It's a subtle animation flex, but one of a myriad in this mind-boggling work of art.
Extra fingers AND knuckles.
I really like how the animation in the film gives simple flat character designs so much dimension with their precise movements.
Its also has some of the most impressive camera shots, most creative action and character design that rely on shapes. The designs are simple, flat and that's what makes the movie look amazing. It relies on illusions to make such great shots and after all, this is some of the greatest hand drawn animation ever created.
I remember hearing that character from cartoons were given only 4 fingers due to maiing it easier to animate but this legend made Zigzag 6 fingers. It really speaks the amount of extra dedication he s willing to take
If you freeze any of the frames the thief is in and look closely, you'll see that not only does he have flies buzzing around his head, they also have his face and clothes. Richard Williams didn't do anything halfway, which was both his greatest strength and his greatest weakness.
The fact that portions of the recobbled cut are just animatics, storyboards, and rough tests, is actually kind of a plus, since we're watching it with an interest in animation, and it's pleasing to see those bits revealed.
Rest In Peace Richard Williams :(
We studied this film in college. Sadly we didn't go into such depth as you did, Due to time constraints. It was amazing to see some of the things one might blow over.
The animation in this film is BRILLIANT. It's simple, and complex at the same time! It's awesome!
This is one of the best hand drawn animations I've seen.
Every time I see clips from this wonderful work of art I feel like crying - not just because it was never properly finished, but also because of the exquisite work that went into it. Just knowing that human beings can produce this sort of thing is something of a comfort to me, and gives me hope for our future.
Same. It's things like this that are such a massive inspiration to me. At 7:10 I was brought to tears from how beautiful this shot was, coupled with the music.
I don't think we will ever see a 2D animated movie on par with The Thief and the Cobbler ever again. Most 2D movies save their best animation for key scenes, "money shots", but WIlliams wanted EVERY scene in the movie to be the best animation quality possible.
No wonder it took literal decades to finish. You could be born when production began and be a family man by the time production stopped.
I love the perspective trick scenes and how you explained them, It's great when they start with the confusing background, but only once the characters start moving in perspective, you can piece together how the layout makes sense. Genius!
I'm surprised that Richard Williams didn't do something about how the anamorphic lens distorts the parallel lines in the scenes though 'cause that's sort of part of the whole geometric layout design.
This movie is to cinema history what the Barcelona cathedral by Gaudi is to architectural history.
I agree.
I pretty much breathed this movie when I was younger, watched it over and over.
A masterpiece.
I vaguely remember this from my childhood. I later saw it on Netflix. At that time I described it as if the creators got high in an Art Museum while watching Aladdin. That was before I learned that this movie was in creation before Aladdin. It’s a weird trippy film.
I summarised this movie in a few words: born too late and shown in a wrong time.
I've seen both versions, but although I prefer the recobbled version, I always found it interesting how a few key differences can change an overall tone and mood of a scene or story.
without the musical parts and the thief/tac voiceovers, it's a masterpiece
I end up almost biting my nails and gulping every time I see the poor Thief doing that tightrope walk - you can genuinely feel his weight fighting against gravity to the point where you almost feel like you're up there with him, and any minute it seems like he could take a sheer drop.
I like how single-minded the thief is, and how nothing, not even imminent danger of death or loss of limbs, stops him from trying to steal more stuff; and yet his compulsive behavior somehow manages to keep him a millimeter away from getting killed or maimed.
I admire all the hard word and sacrifice that was put into this masterpiece
Excellent video series! Looking forward to the next one!
Wow, barely comments here...
sick
It's really great to get a sense of what it is animation can do above anything else. There's a lot of people out there that say "use animation", but they don't actually give concrete examples of what that means. The artistry here is stimulation one of the most complex forms imaginable, and I for one love experiential films. Thanks for the overview.
I love your channel. It always pushes me to want to learn more and try harder. Your analysis is top-notch and you do a great job of breaking down what makes these films successful (or even not successful in parts.) Keep it up man! :)
Is anyone familiar with Felix Colgrave, the artist behind Double King? I absolutely want to know if this film has held any influence over him and his work, it all feels so nostalgic
Great video. Managed to snag the animators survival kit book about 10 years ago. Love it now, love it still. (Don't have the expanded version, tho).
The DVD boxset I also managed to get. And wow, the wealth of animation in that is amazing. He's a great guy to explain stuff, and the lecturers are just funny too, especially when he allows people interact with him. Amazing guy to follow on twitter, he never stops pushing himself.
And he makes one just consume knowledge at each and every opportunity. Wonderful artist. Amazing guy too, so humble.
Yeah, they explain it way better.Eric Goldberg's book is also really great-has a CD that includes most of the examples, also animated.
Great video. This is still one of my most favorite animated films to study. Williams was and is a genius, but, much like Lucas or Shyamalan, he needs other people to reign him in to do his best work. The Thief is interesting for the same reason The Phantom Menace is; it's one man's complete vision unfettered by any other influences. Neither one is really a "good movie," but both are interesting case studies of a filmmaker exercising complete control over his film. I've always believed that great art comes out of adversity.
Marc Hendry Yeah, but I'm sure she's making sure he's staying on task and under budget. It's also a much smaller scale project.
+Stephen Leotti I would heavily disagree that "The Thief and The Cobbler" is a good example of an artist having to be reigned in to do his/her best work. Sure, the amount of control apparently spiralled out of his hands and it led to disaster production-wise, but as an artistic whole? No. I would argue that from all of his work I have seen, this is his best and could indeed be called his masterpiece if it was finished as intended. Art/Animation wise, it is almost flawless. The conceptual vision is very clear and unique. The strongest point you have on the side of your agrument of it not really being "a good movie" is the story. There is not a whole lot of it, and as a story itself, it is certainly not very original, nor very complex. But I would argue that this small tale is nevertheless well told, even though the storytelling is stripped down to the bare necessities. The real star of course, are the "weird" world and its unique characters and environments. In that respect, it reminds me a lot of the french animated film "The roi et l'oiseau" (The king and the mockingbird). If you or Marc don't already know about that one, I'd highly recommend it :). And to Marc, this was indeed a great video about this exceptional project.
***** That's my point. While the quality of the animation is, indeed, stellar, Williams needed to be reigned in because of how much he let himself get carried away with the execution and not keep focus on telling the story. He was so wrapped up in the technical aspects of it that he lost sight of actually making a compelling narrative. Thus, the movie feels more like a showreel than a film. I don't think it represents his best work because it's an unfocused mess; A Christmas Carol or Who Framed Roger Rabbit are far superior. It's certainly an INTERESTING mess, but still a mess.
The same thing almost happened to Lucas with the original Star Wars. His first concept was much more involved and complex, but the studio wouldn't give him the money to make it unless he simplified it down to something that was financially feasible. As a result, it ended up being one of the best movies of all time.
Even if Williams had finished it, I doubt it would have been much of a success commercially, and he still would have probably gone out of business. Maybe it would be like Blade Runner and gotten a cult following, but it's really more of an "art film" than it is a movie that's going to capture an audience. Nothing wrong with that, but Williams seemed to think otherwise, even comparing it to Lawrence of Arabia. And in that day, that kind of movie just was doomed to fail from the start. Look at Fantasia; that was made by Disney and still was a commercial failure.
+Stephen Leotti I guess we don't really disagree, but rather vary in our interpretation of the importance of the various elements. I do not realy see this as a "Mess", but pretty much intentional. I think at some point I read something that Williams openly admitted that he was not THAT interested in the storytelling side of things, and certainly didn't bother too much about its "rules". There are certain plot points: Golden balls dispappear (mcguffin), pretty much everyone (protagonist, villains, thief) chases after the balls, villains get defeated, hero gets the balls and the girl, THE END. That is actually pretty traditional. How to get there, is then played VERY freely. I understand why you call this a "mess", but I still disagree with that, I'd rather call it a loose structure. It has several focal points which hold it together, with the key focus on getting the balls back to save the kingdom (however ridiculous that might sound). Have you seen "LesTriplettes de Belleville", which Marc mentions in the video? It reminds me very much of that, Silvain Chomet was very likely inspired by William or other "artsy" animation of this kind. Very similar structure: Strange World (though grounded in reality this time), simple "plot", crazy animation and situations in the course of resolving the plot. As there are even older films that have similar elements and they are all, well, european animation, I'd argue that this could almost be described as its own genre.. But yeah, I agree that this film might not have been that commercially successfull, at least not worldwide. It's impossible to tell now, of course....
+Danjal Waziri I think it could have been like Mad Max Fury Road if it was better directed. Which was mostly action and very little story. But the pacing is so awkward and the story is so meandering that it doesn't really even work on that level.
The Thief gave me knightmares as a kid for so long. I dont know if its sthe body shape, the lack of speaking, the flys constant following it or all the above
Incredible video! Your video made me see even MORE things in that film.
7:56 - 8:28
Woah! That was so hard to animate that that it looks 3D, without using the CGI for it
Richard Williams is sorely missed...
6:34 this scene is just mind tripping
"Zigzag has this huge flexible mouth" smash cut to two ads.
In substance, _The Thief and the Cobbler_ is traditional animation demoscene, so to speak.
Thief and Cobbler is a real visual syphony.
Glad to see another in this series Marc. Great work!
I was thinking triplets of belleville when you brought up the guards. That felt nice haha
Terrific video! I LOVED the clip with the explanation of Zig Zag's design and movement.
Maybe Miramax will one day release an special extended edition version for Theaters, DVD, Blu-Ray, and Digital HD. I personally didn't mind them casting some actors to play the characters and adding an couple musical cues. But they shouldn't have edited out scenes that Richard Williams originally wanted to be left in their. He should've told them NO CUTS or NO EDITING OUT STUFF!
Man i would donate to see the true version of the film finished. I think it could be the greatest animated film. I mean Akira is pretty awe inspiring but i think this might win idk
It's the greatest film that never was.
Awesome! Love The Thief and the Cobbler. :D
Richard Williams has got to be possibly The Greatest Animator of All Time... I'm gonna miss him and his work in animation... Miss you Richard....Always.
You earned a sub man.
I still want The Thief and the Cobbler to be finished. I know it can never be perfect but I would like to at least see the storyboards and rough animations finished.
love this movie
Did you notice that Zigzag has 5 (instead of 4) fingers + thumb per hand?
he has 6
Great video man, very informative. Keep it up!
awesome movie. i love the remade version more than the terrible disney/miramax version with matthew broderick.
damn miramax for ruining the story. it blocked viewing of youtube parts for movie.
I grew up watching the miramax version on vhs. seems like an unpopular opinion but I really do love that movie. Never knew it was a cut up movie and am interested in watching the newer version.
FENRIR-ART maybe Miramax will one day release an special extended edition version for Theaters, DVD, Blu-Ray, and Digital HD. I personally didn't mind them casting some actors to play the characters and adding an couple musical cues. But they shouldn't have edited out scenes that Richard Williams originally wanted to be left in their. He should've told them NO CUTS or NO EDITING OUT STUFF!
I'm really enjoying all your notes on animation!
What is the name of the animation you referenced that seemed to be based off the blue executioners?
(With the suited men)
It's from the "Triplets of Belleville". Amazing film!
The animation is great, but i think that the author should have made the film short-meter, but focused on ZigZag, because this is the most shining character. The animation still would be awesom, and the film would be finished. The same could have been made with other characters.
Yet again, another great video! I've subscribed btw :)
Hi marc. Im really enjoying these videos. Is it possible to make more of these videos. That would be cool.
Marc Hendry cool im looking forward to it, i love corpse bride
2:49 whats the name of this movie? Trappers of Babel? Cant find it and looks good
Triplets of Belleville
Sooooo awesome.
Is Zigzag a human or not cause in his tower he talks about "the humans" sleeping while is "quite awake". So what is he? Ne doesn't look any less human than the Theif.
Disappointed. You didn't mention Zigzags beautifully animated shoes!
..........10/10
Fun cartoon, nice animation, but not a good movie. The director lost the forest for the trees. Scenes are far better than the whole--as it's focus on technique over story and character overwhelms everything. What a shame the director forced it to be taken away from him, because even I'd rather see his train wreck than the one it became.
Story and characters aren't more valid for a good movie over animation in and of themselves.
That's what I thought as well tbh. The story and the characters are disappointingly lack luster. I legit watched the recobbled version just for the animation. Initially I thought that the characters could be really interesting, as well as the story. Unfortunately, it seems that the director just wanted a canvas to showcase what 2D animation is capable of. Which is fine tbh, I'm all about creating art just for the sake of it with no other deeper meaning.
Rene Simon
2:49 what the film? i bad understand what he say :''(
What, Disney owned The Thief and the Cobbler
It's Miramax
What background song did you use?
Scheherazade
ru high?
?
I'm the one thousandth like :)