Dark Elves TIER LIST - CAMPAIGN (Total Warhammer 2)
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- Dark Elves CAMPAIGN Tier List - Total War Warhammer
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Dark Elf Race Guide (smash legendary in just 20 minutes!)
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Crone Hellebron Campaign Guide and Rating (Total War: Warhammer 2)
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00:00 Intro
00:44 Tiers Definitions IMPORTANT
02:25 Darkshards
03:40 Crossbow Buffs (Lords & Research)
04:23 Darkshards with Shields
05:14 Black Ark Corsair - Melee
05:47 Black Ark Corsair - Handbows
06:46 Corsairs vs Darkshards
07:34 Dreadspear
08:25 Murderous Prowess vs Martial Prowess
08:52 Bleakswords
09:22 Shades (Tier 2 Basic)
10:00 Shades Advanced Information
11:00 Shades Lord & Research Buffs
11:45 Shades Dual Weapons
12:09 Shades Great Weapons
12:50 Masters
14:10 Darkriders
14:42 Darkriders Crossbows
15:22 Darkriders Shields
15:50 Hag Units Overview
16:29 Murderous Mastery
17:10 Witch Elves
18:02 Sisters of Slaughter
19:17 Sorceress
20:07 Lores of Magic
20:30 Assassins
21:20 Death Hag
22:05 Bolt Thrower
23:20 Scourgerunner Chariot
23:49 Cold One Chariot
24:37 Doomfire Warlock
25:54 Bloodwrack Medusa
26:32 Harpies
27:02 Hydra
28:19 Kardibdyss
29:19 Black Guard of Naggarond
31:16 Har Ganeth Executioners
32:46 Manticore
33:48 Cold One Knights
34:59 Cold One Dread Knights
35:48 Black Dragon
37:16 Bloodwrack Shrine
38:22 Legendary Difficulty Assessment
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#TierList #Tiers #DarkElves #Malekith #Naggarond #Warhammer #TotalWarGuide #TotalWar #DarkElf #HeroGuide #2022 #Campaign #Guide 
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ABSOLUTELY AMAZING CONTENT. YOUR LEVEL IS TROUGH THE ROOF.
Most of this, I already kinda knew, but your presentation, the care and clarity, is absolutely outstanding
It takes ages planning/scripting/editing these types of vids to keep things logical and concise so comments like this really mean a lot.
Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment!
Thank you! These guides are so helpful. Literally, I've never been able to enjoy the dark elves until watching a couple of your guides. Amazing content!
I always liked them but training/testing/researching for these videos has brought an entire new level of love. They're nearly my favorite faction and certainly have to work much harder to lever their strengths than other top tier factions. Cheers for the support mate!
Wow finally a video I've been looking for and it's based this year so all the latest patches and DLC are relevant. Very informative and you can tell you have done your work and it has taken you a long time, so very much appreciated for this video!
Definitely took a long time but absolutely worth it to hear it's helpful/informative! Recommend my race and faction guides if you're new to Dark Elves.
Cheers for the comment and sub!
My Dark Elf Very Hard campaign armies: 12 Shades w/greatswords, 6 Hydras. A lord that buffs them on a dragon as a mobile reserve. And a wizard of your choice.
Send in the Hydras first, then have your wide line of range-boosted Shades open up. If they attack the Shades, no problem. But they tend to bunch up around the Hydras.
I actually gave Hellebron a dedicated seige army of Sisters of Slaughter with a few Death Hags, to storm walls with. Works great as a reinforcing army, to crack a tough major settlement.
Love it, all great choices! Best thing about your build is the Hydras that tank for you can heal off any damage post battle. Very flexible build.
Crone's sisters are great fun at breaking the mould of elves lacking melee infantry!
Hey elven, I found your content by luck on the immortal empire release and enjoyed it. I'm really loving your content btw, I used to be a major vampire count fanboy but I fell in love with the shades.
Out of the HE vs DE, I thoroughly enjoy playing the DE more.
Btw I usually play with lots of ambushing in my campaigns so I found sisters of slaughter extremely powerful. I still use black guards because they're the best line holders in the DE roster.
But nothing compares to the shades. Like wtf the units are just so godawfully powerful and fun to use. It's just criminal.
Anyway, love your content
Really appreciate that mate. Sounds like you're quite adept at the melee units and flanking playstyle, looks like you have not trouble with Dark Elves on the battlefield! Agree shades aren't just great as a central unit, even as a support unit ambushing on the flanks to demoralise the enemy - the just follow the DE gameplan and then some. Black Guard aren't a terrible unit at all, especially with Malekith, x2 are compulsory imho. Black Arks are just so efficient at churning out armies in WH2. Black Guard server their purpose even better in WH3. Thanks again for your comment and input
I appreciate the hard work you put into this video, you clearly put a lot of thought and work into it. Ignorant question time: what battle difficulty did you base these ratings on?
Thanks mate! That's a great question and will likely be a common one, so I'll try to answer in some depth here.
These tiers apply to EVERY difficulty (normal to legendary). Optimal units don't change with difficulty, lower difficulties simply punish you less for being less optimal.
Total Warhammer 2 is a missile meta game, but this is more to do with campaign mechanics than the battlefield (ie replenishment, battle types, siege effectiveness, etc) are the reasons of ranged supremacy on Legendary, not melee nerfs which could be overcome with other bonuses (which you don't end up taking because this investment doesn't pay off in later situations).
As a legendary player who does use melee infantry, changing difficulty would have zero impact on optimal play. On Legendary you could give the player the same buffs as the AI and an army of Sisters of Slaughter don't become better than Shades in a siege.
Easier difficulties simply resource you better for inefficiencies. The true meta difference on legendary Melee Defence and Shields are far more key to counteract the AI bonuses. You can choose to surpass these buffs with lord skill, etc, but most players would still opt for ranged/artillery flexibility which is broken down in this video:
ruclips.net/video/KodO1E0xe98/видео.html
Thanks for contributing and please feel free to agree/disagree. I'm always learning too so please share so we can all get better!
Cheers mate.
@@ElvenPlotArmour Thank you for replying, but my question was battle difficulty. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it that will have a more significant impact than campaign difficulty.
Campaign will affect how many armies you can field and morale of the troops, but battle difficulty changes the units combat stats. I understand that the impact is more severe for melee units than ranged.
To be fair, whether easy or very hard cold one riders will still be garbage 😄
(I'll be honest - I tend to play VH/normal because I like the challenge but got fed up fighting skavenslaves that were outperforming my melee units on VH/VH.)
Again, excellent work and thank you!
@@Alex-qe1ir Sorry, I meant Legendary/VH vs N/N. The vid explains that regardless of difficulty, the player is OP as fk. The ability to manually fight battles (more XP) and specialising their lords and research means on Normal battle difficulty, by the mid-game the player's stats will tower over the enemy. Not to mention the AI automatically lose every character due to autoresolving so unless you're facing another LL of equal level, this fight will drastically favor the player. Legendary Campaigns mean you have to invest in skills/research to match the AI, but nobody invests in melee because it is situational and must take risk, while ranged is always dominant and (along with magic) is the primary damage dealer regardless. It's true on N you can just field units and have them work without this investment, but does it shift the meta? You could take away the AI buffs and my playstyle prob wouldn't change at all.
Like you said, redo this Tierlist on L and again on Easy... You'll still see shades at the top and cold ones at the bottom lol
@@ElvenPlotArmour Thank you for the reply! I suspected these were rated at VH battle difficulty, but wanted to confirm (I agree the impact on the meta would be negligible). No doubt you have to answer that question a lot 😅
Thanks for this guide - I've never really found a use for any DE cav besides the Scourgerunner Chariot - It does really plow through units and can really disrupt an advance. Like Alex, I play on VH/Normal too and even on normal battle difficulty, I find it hard to justify the other cav units.
I tend to keep my Dreadspears around, even late game as my flankers - If I had one disagreement with your assessment, I would rate them higher. Just the fact that I can still effectively use them in the end game says a lot about the unit to me but it may say more about the DE alternatives.
Some good opinions. I agree with you and I WANTED to put Dreadspears at B Tier, but they just weren't at the standard of the other B Tier units.
I use Dreadspears all the time because (like you mention) their roster is simply bare of Shielded holders. They can screen your darkshards/hags and brace cav charges on the flanks. At the tend of the day, defensive infantry is a weakness of Dark Elves and having their only options in C Tier does speak to this. Also, while I use Dreadspears a lot, some players don't so being honest and objective C Tier is where they belong. But let the record show they are the top unit in this tier.
Regarding Scourgerunners, they are just amazing. Warlocks are a micro-fan's dream, fast as a darkrider with abilities to bolster the front lines. Their missile cav's range is what ruins them, worse than the inability to fire while moving imho.
Another great list, I cannot find a single error. Also Cold One Knights/Dread Knights prove that Dark Elves organize their armies around 'cool' factor rather than logic.
The most they can be used for is serve as a small reserve to react to the enemy trying to flank. Their beefy charge will put a dent into whatever is causing trouble and keep it busy until your Shades turn and cut it down.
That is the way I have made them 'work'.
Dark Elves are far more complex than popular opinion suggests. More in the demanding and quick execution to get the most out of them, with charges like you mentioned here!
I think black ark corsair still could work, yes they don't have shield, but they have something that could counter HE early, and that is armor. HE struggle with ap damage early game, HE main damage dealer, the archer, also have lower speed than bac, making them instantly locked when BAC charge into them. Other HE infantry early game, the spear, will also definitely lose against BAC.
Having 80 armor means against non AP you're having consistently 40% or 80% damage block, i think it should higher than completely 55% chance 100% block from front.
After doing some math, bac will die after 6-12 volley from he archer, i think that's enough time to close the gap
@@muhammadsaduddin308 The BAC are definitely a solid unit and have very good matchups against early lizards and norsca. However, their elven HP means they really need screening units like some dreadspears against those matchups. The areas/matchups BAC excel in, they do very well, but they are less potent in sieges and the average HE army will be focus firing and wrecking them before they get close. In campaign avoiding loss is key to the DE's expansive play. I still think a couple in an early army adds some nice flexibility. But despite being quite expensive and tapering off by the mid game, they're still a solid unit.
@@ElvenPlotArmour yeah, in mid game they basically became useless. But for early game, i think they deserve C tier at least. Siege isn't really a problem i think, having anti infantry climbing and fighting on wall without any bombardment from any artilerry early game could do the work. The problem is replenishment. you're right about the ranged meta. The biggest problem with melee is melee will always take casualties and the replenishment is really shitty early game. I think what CA can do is buffing infantry health/better replenishment
@@ElvenPlotArmour i try on custom battle, yeah BAC on the same number completely destroy mixed early HE unit (with mostly archer). This could do even better if you mix bleaksword as Frontline for soaking arrow before enganging.
Great summary
I think you are underestimating the Bloodwreck units missile/snipping capabilities, focusing on their melee. I use them more as artillery that can charge in the front lines effectively if needed. Plus as you said they will be readily available because they are recruited from the "must have" sorceress buildings.
Great points, I love conversation like this. Firstly, all of your points are very valid. The Bloodwrack Medusa did score B tier which is still a strong placing, meaning it can be a support unit on legendary for all the reasons you mentioned. It can make your campaign better with good micro, but you don't need it. Come Tier 5 there will be many siege situations and the range (and AP) of Shades challenges the relevance of Bloodwrack units. There is definite argument for the Bloodwrack Shrine to be a B Tier unit, but at this stage they are competing with the best Beasts on offer and are a large chariot unit that can be surrounded by Halberds.
What keeps it in C+ for me is black arks are the primary recruitment hubs and this building is a waste on a black ark. Yes, you'll have it at every settlement, but to get this building to T5 is quite costly and other than for the Research buff, there's not a lot of incentive to progress it past Tier 3 (though I do love me some research boosts!). If I had a C+ Tier, this unit and Dreadspears would have gone there!
Amazing video you deserve more viewers
Cheers for the comment and sub! :)
I really enjoy these, and would like to see it for more factions!
Thanks mate, getting there. I try to make sure I've done as much research and am as sharp as possible before doing tier lists and I take them overly seriously haha. More coming sooner than you think. Cheers for the comment and sub!
Wood Elves next? Sisters of Twilight Hawkriders spamming volleys of Kurnous :D
We'll give them a look when the DE are complete. I like to focus hard on a race at a time to ensure I'm sharp enough to not miss any helpful information and complete. The Wood Elves WILL be done, the only question is when. They could be the first WH3 Mortal Empires faction covered? And yes, Sisters of Twilight will doubtless score favorably :)
Wow. I love your content, I have watched about 6 hours of your videos today. I got Total Warhammer 2 years ago on sale, but only recently have found the time to play. Your videos have been so helpful. I just finished my first 250 turn Vortex campaign with Tyrion, and now I'm getting ready to start a Malakith turn. It seems like I have to change my playstyle a lot going to these Dark Elves, I can't just sit back and wait for enemies to come into range. Any tips for a first time Dark Elves user?
Man, thanks so much. Grateful you found it such a resource. Congrats on your HE Victory, DE are def a step up in complexity but I'll bet you're good for it. Malekith is the definite first choice! I'd highly recommend my Race and Heroes guide for DE to help you learn the broad strokes. The key things are using your Black Arks as recruitment, keeping your settlements for economy and hero capacity, then maximising your heroes to gear your slave economy. Darkshards will carry you through to the mid game and should make up over half your armise. 2-4 dreadspears with hero with a support artillery piece is the most cost effective way to roll. I'd play Malekith as per my "confed domination" stream strategy rather than the confed rush in my other guide. Watch the Malekith guide and drop any questions you have there. Good luck and thanks for the support,
I'd consider myself a dark elf main, and this is essentially what I do. Getting a male dreadlord or a supreme sorceress with Shadowdart, 10-12 shades, a few hydras, some heroes, and a fire sorceress is essentially the most optimal success I've had against not only high elves, but most factions in general. The high beastmasters are also decent lords that make good use of monsters. I might run a few black guards for Malekith's army since they're cheap and useful, but honestly once you get high level heroes and hydras, you don't even need melee infantry anymore (on the higher difficulties that is). It also makes it easy to spam firestorm and burning head over your hydras or heroes since enemy infantry will blob around them. I typically don't even go near the high elves until I can afford shade stacks and hydras, and by then they're usually not a problem to wipe out with the two (sometimes three if I'm lucky enough to confederate one) black arks to support them. Sisters of Avelorn are certainly better than shades, but the fact that shades have stalk and vanguard deployment is a critically underrated facet to their usefulness and utility. I rarely use dragons since they have a high balance of power and underperform compared to hydras, they can't regen, and arrows melt them. I also find it's better to keep certain lords on foot for certain engagements. Malekith and Malus are way more useful on foot when fighting the missile spam of high elves and wood elves. Dragons just get shredded too easily by elves. Maybe I need better micro, but I find dragons pretty bad for dark elves. They're only useful for high elves with a life mage in my experience. Granted if you get some high ward save stuff like a talisman of preservation or the sword of khaine, Malekith is essentially unkillable on a dragon especially with soul stealer to heal. I definitely keep him on the dragon most of the time. I usually never get the Sword of Khaine though because the public order penalty is harder to deal with as dark elves than the OP high elves. Plus dark elves and high elves are so grossly rich that you can always afford to run more armies in dual stacks with each other. I never come across something that more shades and hydras can't handle. My best campaign for the dark elves (unmodded that is) I had Malekith running around with Rakarth everywhere. Malekith's army had the balance of shades, heroes, hydras, etc. Rakarth just had a full hydra stack with a fire sorceress (in case someone lightning striked him). That combo obliterated pretty much anything I came across. Though having a shadowdart lord following your LL's around also works very well against the gigantic ordertide swarms you'll be fighting. I also always had my black arks sail together in pairs and unless they were in port recruiting, I tried to keep them stocked up with shades and hydras.
Firstly, thank you for you EXCELLENT comment (if anyone's reading this - I read all of these lengthy playstyle breakdowns seriously and will often test). I agree with the effectiveness of everything mentioned above as a consistent and strong strategy. Shades really are the backbone of any lategame army, regardless of opponent and you're correct in the overlooking of their stealth. Swordmasters of Hoeth are an example of a decent unit that is terrible in the army it belongs. The Shade's abilities make a great unit incredible due to being in an aggressive army. Fire magic devastates High Elves due to their tight defensive formations of lower HP units, I agree to it being the tool for the job. I place Dark and Shadow as the next best for DE. Using x2 black arks to assist with the Ulthuan invasion is a great idea. I like to have a couple of Hydras and Dragons in my armies for fun and flexibility, though straight up, Dragons require time investment to micro well, and healing is a real issue. Death Hags in the mix can help, but being objective, the hydra is hard to beat in terms of payoff and reliability. Cheers for the great read! Looking to cover Malus or Malekith early in ME :)
Shade spam works fantastically until you get into a 2-way fire fight. At that point Adagio for strings might as well start playing. I never go shade spam unless the lord has the grey vanquisher perk.
I'm also a dark elf main. The Druchii meta imo lies primarily in their state troops.
3/4 state troops -dread spears, bleak swords, dark shards with shields, bolt throwers - with 1/4 elite - crossbow lord, dark/+fire sorcerer. I wouldn't bother being aggressive in melee with elite units until murderous prowess activates.
Dark sorcery is brutally effective when combined with missile batteries and burning head, because you can slow down the enemy with over-cast chill wind and also debuffs the entire enemy force's armor by a whopping 15 points with spiteful conjuration. Slowing down the enemy massively improves shot accuracy/volley-damage on dark shards and decreasing the armor just makes killing even easier.
That's a very cost effective compromise between casting a net of amyntok (45% as good) and plague of rust (50% as good) simultaneously. If you trigger spiteful conjuration and then use burning head, you can delete a lot of mid armour enemies easily. Spiteful Conjuration, power of darkness and chill wind are hands down the most under-rated abilities in Warhammer.
@@oliveryoung9926 I dig how you time your melee with murderous prowess. Very cool!
It’s amazing how much variety there is in the way people play this game. I would have a totally different tier list based on my play style.
100% so much is learned from watching prevalent streamers, they set a meta many never stray from and it sets a perception that many units are unusable.
I do my best to buck that trend, even using melee infantry in WH2 far later than most recommend on Legendary and still smash campaigns without cheesing so there's far more wiggle room for fun for all players. Feel free to share your thoughts - likewise there were countless movements on my personal cut of this list thanks to playtesting suggestions like your own! Cheers for the comment and sub!
@@ElvenPlotArmour no worries you deserve the sub based on you’re hard work and great content! I found Black Ark Corsairs to be a lot more useful than suggested at least against early to mid game skaven, high elf and lizarmen that depend on infantry armies, which the Corsairs specialize in chewing through. I would place them between A and B imo in tier one (since you can easily get them from black arks). It’s especially working well with the more direct rush frontal charge play-style I’ve been into recently (on very hard campaign - hard battle difficulty).
Also I’m trying to make cold one knights and chariots work as Malus Darkbalde in my current campaign. Front line of chariots charge followed by the knights will often rout most units. However I recognize this is a Malus specific strategy and will likely fail in the late game when enemy front lines become more substantial. I’ll let you know.
Either way I’ve been falling in love with Warhammer2 all over again lately because at least the difficulty I play at, if you try hard enough and look for the synergies you can make almost any strategy work. And that kind of brainstorming and theory crafting (as opposed to sticking with meta as you mentioned some players do) is what I found the most enjoyable aspect of the game for me.
Playing as Crone Hellebron (which is my default LL out of all factions), just getting Sisters of Slaughter, Witch Elves, and a couple of Death Hags and going to town on the enemy is so much fun in the early game. You just annihilate enemy infantry, which is what most enemies have at that point. Later on when they bring monsters and some serious cavalry you need to switch up your roster as they are hard-countered, which always makes me a little sad.
Hey this was really cool to hear. Not a lot of Crone mains so the insight is great.
Also, MK2 Sub-Zero. Respect... I remember how to freeze them solid but could never remember the second part of his fatality so they'd just be frozen...
@@ElvenPlotArmour Hahah yeah I swear games back then did not take prisoners.
Keep up the solid work dude!
One thing I’ll add on executioners for wh3 is that the penalty on melee is reduced drastically and there are tests on 1 on 1 dueling power where the executioners are the best unit in wh2 in one on one, likely not true anymore but it’s still up there.
Lastly dark elf is a good rush faction as well, way better than the high elves. So imo it’s tier b or c. It definitely has a place in the dark elf army
Well argued. I agree DE are 100% more of a rush faction than their defensive counterparts. In WH2, executioners I feel are more of a defensive unit with the speedy witch units contributing more to the rushdown gameplan. Honestly, I find executioners are very good in siege defenses and hold infantry very well - the problem is this is such a rare occurrence in WH2 at time they're a bit outclassed against some excellent anti-infantry alternatives. Shades being so OP and never running out of ammo in WH2, especially in siege offenses really limits their comparative use.
However, I think in WH3 they have become a C Tier unit. In siege defences in game 3 they would be very potent and the reload speed reduction protects them has given them more stay in open battles too.
@@ElvenPlotArmour good points! Any plans on an updated eltharion guide? A lot has changed in term of map, starting lord, units and etc.
Thank you :) Waiting for more tier lists :) Please ignore Warhammer 3 :)
Haha appreciate the support! I'll be releasing content for both games in the upcoming weeks so you're all good ;)
What do you recommend for an army comp using a Lore of Fire Supreme Sorceress with Shadowdart name of power?
Lore of fire is excellent for Dark Elves. Your main opponents early on will be other elves (low HP in tightly packed formatons) so max points in Burning Head and Kindleflame - it's simply devastating. I'd even recommend saving winds on the heavier spells as burning head is so decisive in this matchup. Many battles will just be clean up after the fire Sorceress has done her work - I'm typically for role playing and balanced armies, but shadow dart is so OP, honestly the strongest build is going to be 10-15 Shades, 2-3 heroes on foot to hold the front supported assisted by 2-3 support units of your choice. You could support with Bolt Throwers, Dragons, Hydras, Blackguard or Sisters but the most potent/cost effective is to have 2 great weapon Shades on each flank and dual weapons for the rest. If your treasury can't handle it, use 2-4 Dreadspears on the flanks instead - yes, they'll eventually die but they're a respectable lineholder, cheap and easily replaced. Happy hunting!
Good to know, Ive been running Fire SS, 1 Master , 2 Reapers BTs, 4 War hydras, and 12 Shades GS for my Late game.
@@NyssaB Very well rounded army and very well done! I'm a big fan of rounded builds so 2 thumbs up from me. You're not likely to have a bad matchup with that!
Harpy, Kharybdiss (sp?), cold chariots, dread knights up 1. Bleaks, executioners, dragons, shrines, hags down 1. That would be closer to my experience with them. List isn't far off though.
Appreciate you weighing in. I spent a long time on these weightings, keep in mind this is single player only. Kharybdiss are fine but struggle for relevance against the Hydra. As mentioned, they perform higher under Rakarth. Dreadknights simply don't offer anything their best charriot doesn't. This is contextualised in the campaign at which stage the Shade's potential should be reached. The hag units absolutely earn their place here imho. Many of the poor rankings people award is due to not venturing outside of their playstyle. Prior to playtesting for this list I would have agreed with you, but they can absolutely earn their place. If there were a patch that fixed the AI so you can't derp their ammo away then walk them into Darkshards these units would be less controversial. Looking forward to IE! The improved AI will see a bit more infantry use. Cheers for your input, I genuinely chase and test as many alternative opinions as possible rather than making a list of purely my play style. Thanks!
guess i keep finding your gold mines of videos at this point
I definitely hurt my growth by taking so long to make fewer vids, but I'd rather have a small library of quality than spewing out filler just to please the algorithm. Really appreciate champions like yourself that have a browse. Thanks!
In my IE campaign Black Ark Corsairs are incredibly strong early on against Cathay not only with Lokhir but any other lord. I gotta disagree with their placement.
Bleakswords got buffed in terms of armor piercing and more, I think they have their place now at least a little.
Edit: I have looked at every single unit in WH2 and WH3 on both monitors and it seems that Black Ark Corsairs now have a lot more armor piercing. I really like them now. Black Guard seems to have 2 turns only but maybe it's because I was recruiting from Black Ark?
Thanks for sharing your experience. I do agree the low tier infantry has been tweaked very well to give some purpose. I still believe Dreadspears and Corsairs w/bows combine to be their most potent defensive/offensive pairing, being excellent in most matchups.That said, bleakswords now are worth having a unit or 2 in your second line and can deal some decent damage. Regular corsairs are much better now, but their footspeed makes taking the handbow too good to ignore. Even still, their footspeed makes them an excellent offensive counter charger, though their lack of shield and ranged weapon is a limiting factor... Still, 80 armour! Btw, thanks for reminding me to mention these in the upcoming "Dark Elf Changes" vid!
@@ElvenPlotArmour I'm going to test this via Pick Any Unit or Lord For Battle Testing mod, will report results
@@ElvenPlotArmour Bleakswords - Killed 50% of Chaos Warriors. Time: 47 seconds
Dreadspears - Killed 25% of Chaos Warriors. Time: 43 seconds
Black Ark Corsairs - defeated Chaos Warriors with about 10% more hp remaining than them. Time: 51 seconds
Method: I picked the unit itself as lord for maximum accuracy. I charged in with bleakswords and corsairs, and let the Chaos Warriors charge my Dreadspears for higher performance accuracy.
Black Ark Corsairs punch above their weight, they literally fullfill the role of White Lions except they cost way less.
In case of Bleakswords it seems like it's gonna replace the core of my infantry for early game now. Really decent armor piercing damage and anti infantry.
I agree that Handbow corsairs are still better, however what if you went with melee Corsairs and darkshards instead of handbows? Would it not be more efficient? I struggle to find the point of handbows because they are like Lothern Sea Guard but way worse. I should test them out in melee rn.
@@ElvenPlotArmour First round, handbows were standing and fired 2-3 volleys at the Chaos Warriors which did almost no damage because they lack armor piercing.
They went down in 40 seconds, Chaos Warriors had about 20% hp which is still impressive.
Round two: I manually skirmished with handbows. All of their ammo took 50% HP off of Chaos Warriors, then they went to melee. Won with 83 models remaining.
Time: 1 minute and 27 seconds.
I struggle to find a possible scenario where I'd skirmish around the map with handbows unless it'd be core of my army. They lack the range of Shadow Warriors imo. Still a really decent supply unit.
My playstyle is to attack with many Black Ark Corsairs, send a few volleys with Darkshards, and use Corsairs to pin down enemy infantry and bombard them with artillery.
Sorry for being so autistic
@@Malaneth Mate, I only JUST got the notification of your handy lab work! Thanks for sharing your results - I learn a lot from champions like yourself, so cheers again.
The new WH3 Meta has made non-defensive infantry now a key tool - I love it!
This is why SFO is mandatory if you want to enjoy the full roster of any faction. For this reason alone the base game doesn't exist in my eyes. What's the point of playing archer doomstack every game... SFO makes Swordmasters and Executioners alot more fun and very usable.
Originally I used to mod up to the eyeballs but the vanilla game is actually remarkably good in its final state all things considered. Perhaps it's time making guides, but I've enjoyed overcoming the challenges rather than modding it out and as such have become a much bigger fan of overhauls than tweaks. SFO is 'the' benchmark for overhauls and I think everyone should try it. My favourite element is how it gives the dated factions relevance and I'd like to think it could inspire the devs. That said, there's much more variety in the core game than many give credit. Even on Legendary I'll use a couple of executioners with Crone - I have a video on why it's actually the campaign map which is why players don't use melee infantry rather than difficulty but I think WH3 will iron this out in time. Trying to gather data for these tier lists is hard because of no unit caps, people get good and stick with a strat, typically awarding bad rankings for units they just don't use without testing them. I really think Final WH2 is the first TW game to exist that needs no mods to be amazing, though I love the way SFO tips the meta on its head... making me want to fire it up haha!
@@ElvenPlotArmour The problem is - without some mods your armies in late game looks a bit silly, that's why I think, that army unit caps should be in the campaign by default. Today I fought Nurgle army that was made literally only out of Great Uncleans and Soul Grinders. Was it hard? Suprisingly not. Was it fun? Well, I had a laugh, but still - this kind of ruins the atmosphere. Oh, and lack of variety in roster is bad for campaign. Like, where is black orcs with shields? Khorne chosen with great weapons etc. The only answer that comes to my mind - multiplayer will be too hard to balance around that much units.
@@poorpriest4549 That's a shame you fought those compositions. WH2 was reeeeally bad for this on launch but the later patches made the armies really fun to face. So far I haven't faced too much spam but what you experienced shows it's still there. It's early days for IE. I used to mod to the eyeballs (the game needed it), but it has certainly evolved in a positive way. I can foresee many players enjoying mods to recreate their taste of normality until we get off the beta, but I'm hopeful when the cards land it'll be great :)
Regarding unit balance,I feel having a shield option (while realisic) would really hurt the variety of the game. Shields are very powerful, but not having them forces you to be creative which I really enjoy. This is coming from someone who loves the beauty of imperfection as it gives character flaws which must be overcome with strengths.
Algorithm?
Algorithm is pleased by your tribute
Dark elves very much do their damage in close quarters not through arrows shades are useless don't waste your time with them the executioners are the only unit that can take on elite warriors of chaos i think you are confusing dark elves with high elves or wood elves it will end badly for you if you think that dark elves do their damage through arrows 😂
Are you talking about Dark Elves in WH2?
Brainlet.
Jesus this list is awful man
It's cool if you disagree but perhaps some placings are just counter to your own playstyle. This list doesn't mirror 100% of the representation of units I use but is the combination of my own experience and testing of other people's playstyles on different difficulties (not just legendary).
I feel my explanations for placings are well argued. If you have counter points I'd love to hear them and test them in case you have new perspectives. Cheers
If you get 170 range on darkshards with shields you're basically never gonna lose
They do well, but you'd be surprised. I agree, on paper you think it'd be invincible, but Shades are worth the upgrade and better complement the aggressive style that the lack of defense on their melee units demands.
That said, Darkshards with Shields, at any point, are the counter to other Elves and they are never truly redundant.
@@ElvenPlotArmour I'm just not that great yet and employing aggression unless it's beastmen or Norsca. I've been playing this game and this FRANCHISE for a year and a half and there's SO much to learn which I actually like but damn it's tricky. I also appreciate the FUCK out of your input
@@tipoftheiceberg7034 Appreciate the support. It's a fun franchise, particular the WH titles as there's always that exploration of learning and improving.