Here's a thought. What if, instead of the lore consequences of Primaris, what if they just upscaled the old Firstborn kits complete with rotatable waists to resemble Primaris? Notice that Primaris have swappable shin guards. Make them with swappable Mk4/5/6/7/8 breastplates and shin guards and have a base of 20+ poses with waist rotation between the various kits and had good chapter upgrade kits with all of those parts and a plethora of weapons and other bits. It would have been a golden age of Astartes modeling without all the drama.
I think one of the problems with the primaris range is that the upgrade kits aren't brilliant. I think if they were bigger and more expansive then a primaris army could look amazing
55:12 -> So damn true. I looooove firstborn kits. I literally just bought 3 boxes of tacticals, and 3 old boxes of assault marines just to paint. I love them. But they really are not any more posable than the current intercessors. I love the variety of torsos, and maybe that's something that can be changed (and should be changed) with intercessors, but beyond that they really are just a few steps from being monopose.
George is so nice to listen to on Siege's podcast, I loved your discussion despite the hesitant start :D It really felt like a discussion between friends at some point. Regarding the Rhino: The start is GW's Chaos Rhino kit, with some bits taken from proper Thousand Sons kits (Rubric Marines amongst others), a thematic upgrade kit for all the doors and stuff, and a lot of other third party bits sprinkled on (scrolls, braziers, and so on).
Interesting points made. Some of the points regarding the old kits are fair enough, and I do agree with you with regards to the “body chassis”, but it is absolutely undeniable that e.g.the old Death Company box bits (shoulder pad and head options for example) were leagues ahead of the new upgrade sprue that doesn’t include a single DC shoulder pad. And whilst the old monopose kits did have limitations when used in isolation, the interchangeability between other kits means you did have more options. For example using kits from the old BA Tacticals as DC would give you 10 more options, whereas now your 5 poses are your 5 poses and that’s pretty much it.
I think one day for Horus Heresy they could do some kind of campaign related to the Scouring, and with that a mark 7 infantry squad complete with mixed and matched armour and godwyn pattern boltguns
I would like the primaris a whole lot more if they had the same options as the tactical marines, or decent helmets, but you cannot tell me that the same team that updated the dark angels put as much effort into the blood angels, its like the coteaz sculptor got full control over the range.
what a great discussion. Do we think that the whole "pile of shame" designation isn't actually serious? I just also had a thought about finishing projects. I mostly paint for armies, and for me once the power armor is done on my Crimson Fists, I'm definitely burnt on the squad.... How do we feel about doing the details 1st?
I think one thing people don't often consider with the Covid boom of Warhammer and GW stocking issues, is that it would be a terrible business decision to scale up production to match a peak in sales which is unlikely to sustain or happen again anytime soon. We've seen many other businesses bankrupt themselves because they scaled up to the peak of their Covid boom and then as that fell off again, they were left with expenses which far exceeded how much revenue they could consistently generate with no way to quickly scale back down. Whether or not GW actively considered this and made a conscious decision to tread lightly and move slowly, I don't know. But whether intentional or accidental, it's likely worked out well for them as a business. Also, I know a few people who LOVE First Born over Primaris and I don't see how any of their arguments hold up. First Born are "more dynamic," "more posable," "are more unique" are all arguments which just don't seem to really be true when I look at my First Born vs Primaris. One thing I will agree with is that upgrade sprues are very lackluster, but with how many 3rd party 3D printed options there are now, I do wonder if GW doesn't care because they know more informed hobbyists will just get stuff 3D printed, and newer "low information" customers don't really care as much about customisation options because all the basic kits are still new and exciting for them.
Firstborn kits all day! The aesthetic is lightyears ahead of Primaris. With better proportions they would of looked far superior to Primaris marines. You just have to look at the New Heresy MARK 6 Infantry to see how much better they look vs Primaris.
This is a great podcast. Keep up the good work. I would love to be a guest on it, but no one knows who I am, and even fewer people want to hear what I have to say. I'm sure you will find heaps of interesting people. If I could make one recommendation. Could you please make an email for people who have no social media, who would like to enter in the painting competitions?
Having been to warhammer world very recently, I was very surprised how much better the Sanginuary Guard looked in person. In the photos they looked inflated and overly bulky; not the case when I saw them in person!
Primaris > Firstborn.. It's all about rose tinted glasses. I've assembled and painted hundreds of Firstborn marines, and they are not one bit more poseable, customisable, or contain more character than Primaris kits. I'm doing a Salamanders Primaris army, and I've never felt more in charge of my models and how much character I wanna introduce to every squad.
Great video. However, I have to disagree with the difference in customization between firstborn and primaris. I get that the firstborn kits are older, but they have significantly more flavor, bits etc. good example is intercessors vs tactical marines. intercessors are cool but they are all copy and pasted AND also only a 5 man sprue, meanwhile the tactical marines have at least 10 separate legs, 10 torsos, 10 heads, 10 backpacks. the old firstborn kits have so much more customization within them.
The same is for me,i prefere the firstborne because the primaris is very flat in variety and customitazion of power armour,except for a few sparse models and kill team scouts. After painting the scout kill team I go into horus heresy model beacause i prefer the model in many ways and for the customitation of head and weapons.
Sorry about my up and down audio. George's is fine so it's not too annoying. Will be fixed next time!
Huge thanks for having me on mate, was awesome chatting with you! Look forward to seeing where the podcast goes in future episodes ✌🏼
Here's a thought. What if, instead of the lore consequences of Primaris, what if they just upscaled the old Firstborn kits complete with rotatable waists to resemble Primaris? Notice that Primaris have swappable shin guards. Make them with swappable Mk4/5/6/7/8 breastplates and shin guards and have a base of 20+ poses with waist rotation between the various kits and had good chapter upgrade kits with all of those parts and a plethora of weapons and other bits. It would have been a golden age of Astartes modeling without all the drama.
I think one of the problems with the primaris range is that the upgrade kits aren't brilliant. I think if they were bigger and more expansive then a primaris army could look amazing
55:12 -> So damn true. I looooove firstborn kits. I literally just bought 3 boxes of tacticals, and 3 old boxes of assault marines just to paint. I love them. But they really are not any more posable than the current intercessors. I love the variety of torsos, and maybe that's something that can be changed (and should be changed) with intercessors, but beyond that they really are just a few steps from being monopose.
George is so nice to listen to on Siege's podcast, I loved your discussion despite the hesitant start :D It really felt like a discussion between friends at some point.
Regarding the Rhino: The start is GW's Chaos Rhino kit, with some bits taken from proper Thousand Sons kits (Rubric Marines amongst others), a thematic upgrade kit for all the doors and stuff, and a lot of other third party bits sprinkled on (scrolls, braziers, and so on).
Interesting points made. Some of the points regarding the old kits are fair enough, and I do agree with you with regards to the “body chassis”, but it is absolutely undeniable that e.g.the old Death Company box bits (shoulder pad and head options for example) were leagues ahead of the new upgrade sprue that doesn’t include a single DC shoulder pad. And whilst the old monopose kits did have limitations when used in isolation, the interchangeability between other kits means you did have more options. For example using kits from the old BA Tacticals as DC would give you 10 more options, whereas now your 5 poses are your 5 poses and that’s pretty much it.
My pile of potential keeps me motivated, there's always something handy to build/paint and I do tend to flit between tasks. 🤘🏻
I think one day for Horus Heresy they could do some kind of campaign related to the Scouring, and with that a mark 7 infantry squad complete with mixed and matched armour and godwyn pattern boltguns
I would like the primaris a whole lot more if they had the same options as the tactical marines, or decent helmets, but you cannot tell me that the same team that updated the dark angels put as much effort into the blood angels, its like the coteaz sculptor got full control over the range.
what a great discussion. Do we think that the whole "pile of shame" designation isn't actually serious? I just also had a thought about finishing projects. I mostly paint for armies, and for me once the power armor is done on my Crimson Fists, I'm definitely burnt on the squad.... How do we feel about doing the details 1st?
Really enjoyed the interview with George - plenty of thought provoking material to chew on . many thanks! :)
Furst born are good, i prefer the 30k models over the primaris ones for there style and the new mk6 & 3 not far off the size of new primaris
I really enjoyed this discussion 👍
I could never get sick of your voice brother !
I think one thing people don't often consider with the Covid boom of Warhammer and GW stocking issues, is that it would be a terrible business decision to scale up production to match a peak in sales which is unlikely to sustain or happen again anytime soon. We've seen many other businesses bankrupt themselves because they scaled up to the peak of their Covid boom and then as that fell off again, they were left with expenses which far exceeded how much revenue they could consistently generate with no way to quickly scale back down. Whether or not GW actively considered this and made a conscious decision to tread lightly and move slowly, I don't know. But whether intentional or accidental, it's likely worked out well for them as a business.
Also, I know a few people who LOVE First Born over Primaris and I don't see how any of their arguments hold up. First Born are "more dynamic," "more posable," "are more unique" are all arguments which just don't seem to really be true when I look at my First Born vs Primaris. One thing I will agree with is that upgrade sprues are very lackluster, but with how many 3rd party 3D printed options there are now, I do wonder if GW doesn't care because they know more informed hobbyists will just get stuff 3D printed, and newer "low information" customers don't really care as much about customisation options because all the basic kits are still new and exciting for them.
Firstborn kits all day! The aesthetic is lightyears ahead of Primaris. With better proportions they would of looked far superior to Primaris marines. You just have to look at the New Heresy MARK 6 Infantry to see how much better they look vs Primaris.
This is a great podcast. Keep up the good work. I would love to be a guest on it, but no one knows who I am, and even fewer people want to hear what I have to say. I'm sure you will find heaps of interesting people.
If I could make one recommendation. Could you please make an email for people who have no social media, who would like to enter in the painting competitions?
I was with you up until @54:30. Old GW kits were better in terms of more personalized and customizable
Having been to warhammer world very recently, I was very surprised how much better the Sanginuary Guard looked in person. In the photos they looked inflated and overly bulky; not the case when I saw them in person!
Primaris > Firstborn.. It's all about rose tinted glasses. I've assembled and painted hundreds of Firstborn marines, and they are not one bit more poseable, customisable, or contain more character than Primaris kits. I'm doing a Salamanders Primaris army, and I've never felt more in charge of my models and how much character I wanna introduce to every squad.
when primaries have the customization, ease of conversion, and the amount of bits of the first born let me know.
@@flameknightdragonGood news my friend, they already do’
Great video. However, I have to disagree with the difference in customization between firstborn and primaris. I get that the firstborn kits are older, but they have significantly more flavor, bits etc. good example is intercessors vs tactical marines. intercessors are cool but they are all copy and pasted AND also only a 5 man sprue, meanwhile the tactical marines have at least 10 separate legs, 10 torsos, 10 heads, 10 backpacks. the old firstborn kits have so much more customization within them.
The same is for me,i prefere the firstborne because the primaris is very flat in variety and customitazion of power armour,except for a few sparse models and kill team scouts. After painting the scout kill team I go into horus heresy model beacause i prefer the model in many ways and for the customitation of head and weapons.
Really interesting conversation.
Just finished some NMM Sanguinary Guard and they do look waayy better photographed than in real life!
loved this episode big fan of George's work and Siege! you did great can't wait for more
A pro mini painter origin story