you do know that is what the ancient Egyptians the Jews, the Muslims not to mention Christians etc. and people who have had near death experiences believe.
@@StopSpammingOriginal Think ? hmmmmmm Well, not sure bout that. However, yes it's funny and even funnier each and everyday that the 'fallacy' continues to play out. The 24/7 365 cover-up is really something to witness. Especially watching how You Tube, Twitter & Instagram partake in the matter. These people at the top of the food chain are quite brilliant. Fascinating Stuff !!!
As a Greek and a teacher of Greek literature, I can say without doubt that the Greek word "ακούω" means only " I hear". The theist is either ignorant or a liar (c.a. 2'40'')
the preacher is a typical american ignorant ass,spewing words without understanding.Their whole reliogion is based on stupid ,mangle og woe4ds and images.
@@rsr789 I've watched thousands of christian callers on The Atheist Experience and it becomes very obvious that christians lie like the rest of us breathe. I wouldn't trust a christian as far as I could spit one.
You would think if there really was an historic Jesus preaching to large crowds, doing amazing things, that someone, somewhere would have written something about him at the time..... contemporary? Yet all we have is an antiquated old book by unknown authors compiled decades later.
Yes, and one of those disciples was supposed to be a tax collector (Matthew) and another was supposedly a physician (Luke) whose jobs would have required them to keep notes about important things, yet neither seemed to have been impressed enough to keep contemporaneous notes about their experiences with this man.
@@GitanandaChess Well, sort of. Luke never saw Jesus and was not a disciple. He supposedly was an acquaintance of Paul, but there is doubt that Paul actually wrote any of the Epistles; certainly half of them are forgeries. All we know about Paul is that he most likely did exist, but the Paul described in the Epistles was not the Paul that actually existed in the middle of the first century.
You would think that if the Romans burned every record in Judea then Dan Barker and other Jesus deniers would not play games and ask why are there no contemporary ones. But no they try to fool people by hiding the truth.
@@henochparks But Rome didn't go and burn every record in Judea. Where is that recorded? And, you'd think some of the many other historians (say 75+ ... not the 40 that Dr. Barker referenced) would have written some type of blurb about Jesus, but there is nothing from that period (even within Roman historians whose works are extant) that speaks of Jesus. It's as if he didn't exist -- just like all the other so-called God-Men.
The religionist throws the "I got more years of school than you" argument on Dan. I've seen this before. Religious people are proud of their credentials, the raw tonnage of their degrees, without regard to quality or educational value.
Ya I know right. Who's to say Dan's 2 years of studies wasn't better than his 7? we know of prodigy geniuses that know way more at a young age than most career scholars in any fields lol. Also to me, Dan was knowledgeable enuf in Greek to be able to rebuttal all that was thrown at him..
I noticed that Mike starts referring to credentials when he found himself being pushed into a corner by Dan. Mike used ad hominem attacks elsewhere in the debate when Dan was pushing him on an uncomfortable topic. Its not unfair to expect someone who believes in something that no one (especially the audience) has seen or experienced to explain themselves. Yet Mike acts as if the supernatural events he's describing is so obviously true that we should all just accept it without question.
You have no idea how much these words resonate with me and how right you are ❤ Christians are honestly the most hypocritical, insufferable and meanest people of any because their faith gives them the right to claim the moral high ground.
Dan Barker understands both worlds better than anyone else could possibly understand. Since he has moved into the non-believing world at his own feelings and convictions, it is nearly impossible for anyone to argue or say he is wrong, since he has mastered the ubderstanding of each world.
One shouldn’t need twenty years of Greek study in order to understand what is supposed to be the most important message ever given to mankind. Any reason why God couldn’t have simply been clear?
I see you don't understand. You have no idea of the controversy that Jesus caused with his teachings against the current of Jewish beliefs. He was clear but many did not understand him, they condemned him and killed him, just like those who do not understand the Bible and speak about it as if he knew without having sought to understand the message. Just in case I don't belong to any particular religion. It is not about religiosity but about discernment.
@@jorgegabrielnarvaez5914 I find it weird that the only thing you did was to reiterate that the Bible is a confusing mess that one shouldn’t need twenty years of Greek in order to understand. And one year later I’m still asking “why didn’t god just make this oh so important message clear?”
@@SPL0869 to separate the sheep from the wolves. Whoever received Him with their heart, He will open their mind so that they can truly understand and comprehend what is written.
If Jesus is real and in their hearts and they have a personal relationship with him...why do they need to convince anyone? It sounds like they are trying to convince themselves that he is real.
How can it be a personal relationship if there are millions of other personal relationships? It''s like saying , she's my personal lover but Tom, Bill, James, Fred, Dave and Peter are also nailing her. Is that your idea of personal ? Please try to think for yourself.
Because they believe everyone has to hear the “good news” before Jesus comes back. Proselytizing is one of their missions to each convert a bunch of people
When someone happily sits there with total conviction debating what certain words could mean from written translations of copied ancient Greek documents where there are no originals that were written by unknown authors using unknown eye witness testimonies years after the supposed events where four stories are needed to tell one story you have got ask yourself ‘is this all God, who is the creator of life, the universe and everything, who is all knowing and timeless, is giving you to work with? Or does it all sound like every other man made mythical made up load of crap that people have always believed in at some point throughout history?
humm when you arrest and imprison every Bishop, burn every copy of their scriptures, execute or imprison their leaders, kill them for believing in a religion, outlaw their religion for centuries, then years later when they try to reorganize their oral traditions there might be might have errors. What is sad is that some jerks claim 2,000 years later their leader never existed. Grow up dude.
@@henochparks You are incorrect. When was any Bishop ever imprisoned or killed? That did not happen. Their religion was not outlawed. It was just one of the many religions that was tolerated in the Roman rule. The persecution of Christians was very overblown and (possibly) an outright fabrication devised to gain converts. Yes, a few did die, but not the numbers that were promulgated in Christian stories of persecution.
@@PoeLemic HAHAHA you lived in the first three centuries AD? There are numerous letters by Romans writers dealing with the "Christian problem" There are numerous testimonies of Christian leaders being arrested, imprisoned, and executed. You are goofy!
It is amazing that in the face of every storm God preserved the scriptures for thousands of years and that it continues to be the best and best-selling book in the history of humanity.
@@jorgegabrielnarvaez5914 God has not preserve the scriptures. There are no original scriptures and what scriptures we have were created by man from whatever dubious copies they were copied from at that time that were also created by man. God totally relies on man to create and preserve his supposed holy scriptures. The oldest complete bibles are Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus around 300-350AD, with earlier fragments of scripture. I wouldn't call that very well preserved by God. Which bible is the best selling book? You have Catholic Bibles, Protestant Bibles, Mormon Bibles etc. There are many versions, New International Version (NIV), King James Version (KJV) New Living Translation (NLT), English Standard Version (ESV, New King James Version (NKJV), Christian Standard Bible (CSB), New American Standard Bible (NASB) etc, with too many to list here. I think if you chose one it would not be the best selling book of all time, but I suppose your claim is based on ‘The Bible’ which I think is quite dishonest, it’s like me saying ‘The Dictionary’ is the best selling book of all time. There have been many books added and subtracted within these bibles over time, never mind the added and subtracted passages within these bibles, for example the three or four possible endings for Mark’s gospel, the verse in John 8:7 He who is without sin cast the first stone is not in the earliest texts. Also why does your great all powerful magical God need to ‘sell’ his book in the first place? So people can make money from it, that is truly laughable.
Christianity: The belief that a Jew who was born to a virgin and who was his own father, can turn water to wine, walk on water, became a zombie after being dead for 3 days, can make you live forever in an enchanted invisible place if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in all humanity because a woman, who was made from a man's rib, was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
Dan was criticized twice for using different lines of reasoning when all he was doing was trying to show that his opponent's arguments fail from not just one, but multiple perspectives.
The religious people get upset when you don't follow their script. "I say A and you say B. No, I said 'You say B.' You say B!!!" If you don't follow their script, they assume you are trying to eff with them and call you "disrespectful".
Mike reminds me of the host on Ancient Aliens when the host poses a question and follows it up with the statement "ancient astronaut theorists say yes".
He appeared according to the gospels. Then he appeared to Paul 2+ years after the resurrection. His appearance to everyone else will have to wait for more than 2,000 years. What a ruse!
Dan. You really put him in his place. Your knowledge in the Bible and it’s interpretation is awesome. He will change his mind, his brain is in default mode.
Dan Barker is clearly right, but he frequently argues from a weak position in regards to the record. There are so many things he has no need to grant his opponent, and they often become bogged down in translation because of it. He could have had a much more decisive win if he didn't meander into minutiae.
Sure. But the debate subject had a very specific narrow focus. Dan was revisiting proposed text translation to see how these supposed “75% of scholars” could have reached a consensus conclusion on the “belief” of the “apostles” testimony of “resurrection”.
I had a similar reaction. The contradiction in Acts regarding hearing and not hearing triggered a detour about "how much Greek you know" and "understanding versus hearing." Apologetics like Mike will drag the Dans of this world through the mud of their pseudo scholarship of "in this case the word means this but in that case the word means that according to 75% of the scholars." Compare the New Testament (NT) with Euclid's Elements (E). E was written about 4 centuries before NT. Both are compilations of several contributors. NT is supposed to be the word of god; for some, literally; for others, inspired by. One would expect that a book written or inspired by god; a book that is necessary for our eternal salvation...would be perfect! Instead, its many contradictions have triggered awful wars. Philip Jenkins's "Jesus Wars" narrates the interminable wars among five patriarchates of the first centuries of Christianity, all of them justified under their contradictory interpretations of NT. By the way, no war was ever fought to resolve a mathematical disputation. A long preamble to say that upon reflecting, I think Dan was considering the audience that favors Mike's irrationality, and for them the triviality of understanding versus hearing is important. Initially, I agreed with you; but upon reflection I disagree.
I disagree. I think it's great for believers who are impressed by Greek study or whatever to hear Dan breakdown those details on par with the religious guy.
@@BorisNoiseChannel EVERY SINGLE PERSON WILL BE JUDGED IN REVELATION 20 BY JESUS CHRIST, WHO SITS ON THE WHITE THRONE. IT IS TRUE THAT YOUR DEMONS HATE THE TRUTH, BECAUSE THEY AS INCLUDED YOU- WILL BE TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOREVER AND EVER... IF YOU DO NOT REPENT OF YOUR SINS ON YOUR KNEES AND WORSHIP YOUR CREATOR JESUS CHRIST !!
STEVIE WONDER IS CONDEMNED AS WELL AS THE FALSE PROPHET ON THE STAGE--WITH ALL OF YOU CHRIST-HATERS OF MY LIVING LOVING LORD GOD ALMIGHTY JESUS CHRIST !!
@@BorisNoiseChannel BECAUSE SATAN HATES CHRIST, HIS BIBLE, AND HIS DOCTRINE... (YOU ARE THE ONE THAT WILL SUFFER FOR ETERNITY IF NOT THROWING YOURSELF AT HIS FEET... COUNTDOWN TO HEAVEN & HELL !!
An entire life without sin rejecting carnal pleasure. Never being selfish. In other words, I renounce the flesh for eternal life in fullness and love. What no one has been able to do. Does it seem little to you? With this act he defeated death and the decline of those who embrace this world so that everyone who believes in Him may be justified through Him and have eternal life. He renounced everything carnal for you and gave his life, the greatest act of love that someone can do for you.
@@jorgegabrielnarvaez5914why couldn’t he just forgave? Why the need to kill part of himself to do it? My kids don’t need to sacrifice one of our cats in order for me to forgive them when they do something wrong. It’s nonsense if you think about it.
This was an incredible debate. I wish it'd better video and taping equipment, and been nice if it was 1080p. But, I loved the content. Thank you for saving & sharing this debate.
In this day of mass communication and huge transparancy where events are watched across the globe as they are unfolding - and yet still there is disagreement as to what exactly is happening (I'm thinking of things like the last American presidential election, the war in Ukraine etc etc) - I find it incredible that an educated man can talk about conversations with such unwavering certainty , as if he was there, that took place not only 2,000 years ago but were not even written about until 20 - 50 years after they supposedly happened and written about by unknown authors that were not even present during the events!
I find myself cringing at having ever earnestly believed such utter nonsense. I sincerely hope some day my family will find their way to rationality and freedom.
Sick and tired of RESURECTION. Who went to the tomb? Matthew 28:1 2 Marys Mark 16:1 2 Marys & Salome Luke 24:10 5 women John 20:1 Mary Magdalene Was the tomb open when they arrived? Matthew 28:2 No Mark 16:4 Yes Luke 24:2 Yes John 20:1 Yes Who was at the tomb when they arrived? Matthew 28:2-7 One angel Mark 16:5 A young man Luke 24:4 Two men John 20:11-12 Two angels Where did Jesus first appeared to the disciples? Matthew 28:16-17 Galilee John 20:19 & Luke: 24:33-37 Jerusalem Did both thieve revile Jesus? Mark 15:32, Matthew 27:44 Both thieves reviled Jesus. Luke 23:39-42 Only one thief reviled Jesus. Where did Jesus tell his disciples to go after his resurrection? Matthew 28:10, Mark, 16:7 Go to Galilee. Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4 Stay in Jerusalem. When Mary returned from the tomb, did she know Jesus had been resurrected? Matthew 28:7-8 Yes Mark 16:10-11 Yes Luke 24:6-9, 23 Yes John 20:2 No How many disciples did Jesus appear to in this post resurrection appearance? 1Corinthians 15:5 the Twelve? (why 12, Judas was already dead!). Mark 16:12-14, Luke 24:33-37 Two disciples in Emmaus, later to eleven. Matthew 28:16-17, Luke 24:33-37 Eleven. John 20:19-24 (Judas & Thomas were absent) Ten What day and what time was Jesus crucified? Mark 14:12 On the day after the Passover meal. John 19:14 The day before the Passover meal. Mark 15:25 9 AM. Some translations say, the third hour. John 19:14-15 Noon. Some translations say, the sixth hour. How many days and nights Christ was in the grave? Matthew 12:40, Acts 10:40, Luke 18:31-33 three days and three nights. Mark 16:2, Matthew 28:1, Luke 24:1, John 20:1 less than two days. Were the disciples frightened or glad when they saw Jesus? Luke 24:37 frightened John 20:20 glad Did Mary Magdalene recognize Jesus when he first appeared to her? Matthew 28:9 Yes John 20:14 No
Mike to Dan at the end... "I appreciated this debate, Dan. It's been fun. But please understand, the God I love, follow, and praise for His infinite love and wisdom will be burning and torturing you for for eternity with no perceivable benefit to anyone. Goodnight, everybody."
I find it really disturbing that an all loving, all powerful God or savior that wants all of us to spend eternity with it, him, or her can be so Insecure to the point that we have to love it more than self, more than your own family, and more than your own kids. The way god has been described sounds a lot like human!!
Yup, a really bad and unadjusted human (what comes to mind are all the most vile qualities and traits the average caring human abhors). It is hard to imagine that "He" exists, other than in the imagination of delusional faith followers. And if he does, I would gladly tell him to gtfooh.
@@rsr789 Most atheists have read the buy-bull... in fact in a recent survey, the reading of the bible was the NUMBER ONE reason given in response to the question, "What made you become an atheist?" LOL! 😄
I want to believe in a caring god that will take myself and all my friends and family to some spiritual utopia in the clouds one day, but my b.s. detector prevents me from buying into any of the gods depicted in ancient texts. They all sound man-made to me and those talking about having a personal relationship with some invisible deity just sounds delusional and child-like. It just seems like a fear-based belief system. There may very well be some unseen intelligence responsible for everything, but it doesn't appear to give a rat's ass about us on a personal level.
@@blackagendermuslim7198 Jesus says? Are you kidding me? You have based your entire life around a book written by various primitive science-deficient authors who promise you an everlasting life because you're terrified of death and not existing. In other words, you're delusional so don't talk to me about what "Jesus said" you nutball. Better read up on the Flavian Family of Rome.
@@blackagendermuslim7198 Hate is a strong word that I never directed at you. Your "truth" lacks any credible evidence. Do you believe every unverifiable thing that you read in old books?
@@Monster_Mover_Stocks the shroud of turin is scientific forensic verifiable truth, you think? but can you see it? ruclips.net/video/C8pqhEKcw8Y/видео.html
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply to painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back."-Carl Sagan.
...an alleged god-man performs many unprecedented miracles, up to and including cheating death, in front of multitudes of people in the relatively literate society of the Roman Empire, yet not a single person is known to have written a single word about Jesus, his ministry, or his miracles until decades after his death. Not a single word about Jesus is known to have been written during his lifetime. This alone should give a rational person pause.
Before jesus there were several prophets who also resurrected. Books are written such away to put these prophets above the average. Walking on water & other miracles samething.
It is truly embarassing that we are still debating whether or not A MAN ROSE FROM THE DEAD AND ROSE INTO THE SKY. Too make the debate even dumber is that the accounts were written at least 70 years after the fact using nothing but hearsay. You may as well believe in Paul Bunyon or John Henry.
They’ll never deny those Ancient Fairytales because they’ve been Indoctrinated and Trained to believe that if they do they’ll be Terrorized and Tortured In Hell For All Eternity 🤨. Those Ancients sure knew how to scare the ShitZzz Outta People In Order To Keep Them Believing🤣.
One obvious conclusion: By chosing to record his divine word in now-dead languages, God has severely hampered our ability to correctly and fully parse his messages. If multiple highly-qualified scolars can't arrive at a firm consensus on something as basic as the meaning of words, how can simple layfolk hope to ever receive God's true message?
Modern humans invent fictional characters to indulge their fantasies, Batman, Wonderwoman, Spiderman. Ancient people invented super heroes too. What else would you do to keep the attention of children while sitting around the fire?
It’s hard to talk to religious people because they use everything to prove their topic. They bring up different texts from bible they stick them together so they have a meaning which they want
What's really stupid is all believers agree that God want us all to follow his word but yet he's always speaking in parables and riddles that confuse 😕 people and yet hold you accountable for not following something that you don't understand...Notice how they always try to explain how someone who's studied a particular subject has a high level of intelligence and they said this or that to try an prove their point because they simply can't do it...
Aries - I feel your pain. My heart desperately wants to believe and my upbringing taught me to do so. My rational brain, given to me by God, demands strong evidence for the extraordinary claims in the Bible. If I were to use the same threshold of evidence for other extrordinary claims made by men throughout history, most people would call me gullible. What I find to be personally painful, is that I feel as though I might be disappointing some as of yet unrevealed, "true God" by believing in the God of the Bible. What a terrible predicament.
The preachers whole argument: “Jesus is true because the Bible is true and the Bible is true because Jesus is true.” It became boring listening to him because all his supposed evidence was from what he read in the Bible. Regardless how Dan detailed the complete unreliability of anything in any biblical writings relating to the time Jesus supposedly lived, he just returned again and again to listing the witnesses in the Bible that Dan just proved to be unreliable records by unknown authors.
The common theme in religion is that there's no proof. All the bodies of the prophets conveniently float up to heaven so as to leave no proof. Isn't that telling?
The christian has memorized a lot of names, numbers, alleged dates, and stories about them. I think it gives him and others who do the same, a false sense of expertise- hence why he got upset when Dan said he too has studied Greek like him. After hearing about Dan's 2 years of Greek (to his "5!!!"), the Christian then says, "Well, we are getting off topic." First it's crucial that he has all these years of Greek study, then suddenly it's "off topic?"
We know that a Greek church rose from the Pauline teachings, but where are the churches that should have come from the twelve disciples? Isn’t it strange there are no Jewish churches that stem from the twelve disciples Jesus “picked himself”? Considering “there were so many witnesses,” and considering “five hundred dead people rose from the dead and walked the streets of Jerusalem,” wouldn’t there be many believers in Israel?
Declaring the inerrancy of the Bible off-limits in a discussion of the resurrection is akin to discussing the Loch Ness Monster while demanding no mention of the Loch. You have a book riddled with contradictions and factual errors that was written decades after the purported events by anonymous authors being held up by one of the debaters as fact. His need to rationalize nonsense is particularly frightening given his obvious intellect.
@23:00 "Where you've got two you've got one." So there's no contradiction between a version that says there was one man at the grave site and a version that says there were two. Jesus fucking christ, these people torture logic.
@@darkblueman with all due respect, are you no longer capable of recognizing the difference between Good and evil behavior, if not, then you have already entered the cloud cuckoo -land.
Dan you are really doing a very good job , please keep going like Christopher Hitchens & Richard Dawkins and all those others ..thank you for getting out of your comfort zone .
It doesnt take a genius to read the Strongs Concordance to study the bible in the original greek and Hebrew. I studied my way into being an atheist too. Debating a story book is frustrating. The Paul experience is simply a made up story.Never happened. That's what I would tell them.
When all the talking's done. When all the smoke has cleared the truth is that "dead is dead". Even if a person could be brought back from a state of being dead today or in the future no-one could be brought back from being truly dead in the first century CE.
I've watched both Dan and Bart Ehrman hand this guy his ass with no problem. What the hell does he put himself out there like that? LOL FTR: I came from being a hardcore evangelical pastor and evangelist for most of my life and studied to bible to be a "super Christian" and like Dan and many others... found out how ridiculous all that was.
Even if they had stronger evidence than other religions (which they don't), the fact they claim all others who believe differently are filthy rags deserving of torture will always convince me it's a man-made, manipulative package of dogma, rather than the truth. Something that is true does not require so many excuses.
Could Jesus have become the Son of God if he just died on the cross- and that was it? No, the 'Resurrection' was cooked up afterwards to embellish and reinforce the whole story.
I'm 63 and when I was a teenager and read Mathew 14:31 when Peter supposedly walked on water and was looking if this story of Jesus was real. I thought to myself, there is an easy solution to find out all this Jesus, miracles, power of faith... was real. All Christians (At will) should be able to create miracles out of love and need as Jesus did... Still waiting after 50 years. And 'they' always have an excuse. Either you/they have the faith, or you/they don't. STOP sugar coating! I couldn't be a Christian like those peoples any longer. Ex-Christain!
I wish Dan would have brought this out but the "Creed" mentioned by the "Greek Expert" was found not to have been written by the apostles nor in the time the "expert" mentions but was more likely written in the 6th or 7th century. Thus so much for the other guys "evidence".
Women going to anoint a decomposed male dead body was not permissible in jews but the authors of the gospels who wrote this story were Greek nationals, written without knowing the jews' funeral customs.
Corinthians 14:33 “God is not the author of confusion”. Meanwhile, these guys have years of Greek scholarship and know the Bible inside out. None of them can agree on what these verses mean. 99% of most believers can’t speak ancient Greek or the Aramaic language spoken by the people in the book itself. Seems like a recipe for confusion.
At 1:00 hour mark Mike suddenly is muted an his response is errased ..... wtf? I hope the christian organization hosting this debate is not hiding anyrhing
Wow we all are in need of a hero. Lookin around these days I get it, but I think we should agree about good stuff and support each other with the dealings of big business and the government involvement. Wake up people
How can we seriously debate about a subject when the book it derived from is questionable in itself. To read it with your "eyes opened" will give you nightmares. And the fact, that this religion wants you to feel unworthy and sinful by birth is so much like the beginning of a brain wash process.
I want to applaud the debate moderator for actually letting them debate. The guy against the motion who believes in Jesus only mentions people from the Bible except for one person. You can't cite the Bible and use it as evidence. Also I find it hard to trust someone who uses consensus as truth or fact. He kept using the argument that most scholars agree with him which has nothing to do with truth. Millions of people can all be wrong just look at climate change perfect example. I am not an athiest because I understand the value of faith and how it can move mountains.
Not far out of the galaxy, at least. Even the Mormons would have to admit he still has a long way to go before reaching Kolob. (Look it up.) I'm not sure where your standard Christians think Heaven is. My mother used to say, "another dimension," whatever that means, exactly.
No one can disprove a resurrection 2000 years ago, he just gave plausible explanations. People have religious experiences and visions all the time. People also exaggerate and lie often. People also die for their religions, Jews killed themselves rather than be converted to Christianity. Muslims and Bhuddists have died for their religion too. Do you deny that?
On a serious note, it always irritates the bejesus out of me when someone asks an atheists to prove that something doesn't exist. Do they not realize how stupid of a request that is? How it is literally impossible? Prove to me that I can't fly. I need evidence! I know I can fly. No one else has seen it, but if no one believes I can fly, they better prove I can't. Actually, that would be pretty easy if they just throw me off a building. lol Guess I shouldn't tempt ignorance.
Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. The court only needs first hand testimonies. The belief in god should be treated more than a court since the needed facts of believing in god claims should be extraordinary. Therefore stories narrated in new testament could not be merited as evidence.
When I hear apologists defending their beliefs I can’t help wondering if they ever hear how crazy they sound. If even for just a moment do they hear themselves?
I would say Paul's credibility is discredited due too the characters actions that he killed people, I'd tend not too listen too any wisdom a killer would want too spew out and write down
Dan was amazing. He knows his Bible and understands it.
"We know it wasn't a hallucination" no Mike , no you don't know that. You believe that .
How can anyone seriously keep a straight face while maintaining that a man literally rose from the dead and ascended into the skies?
you do know that is what the ancient Egyptians the Jews, the Muslims not to mention Christians etc. and people who have had near death experiences believe.
It's also difficult to believe there is a lump of rock floating around in space with people animals, plants etc on it.
@@ianbetts4435 you mean like earth?
@@henochparks yes
Bro that was apparently happening all the time in ancient times. Everybody who is somebody floated up to the sky...
Amazing what humans can talk themselves into believing.
Evolution is a scientific fact …. Thank u DAN
9/11 was on TV.
There are 1000’s of paid false witnesses…
To the majority it was Real.
Even though it was a Pre recorded 🍿 Movie .
Lol
@@realtruth2817 lol??? You think that this is funny?
@@StopSpammingOriginal Think ? hmmmmmm Well, not sure bout that.
However, yes it's funny and even funnier each and everyday that the 'fallacy' continues to play out. The 24/7 365 cover-up is really something to witness.
Especially watching how You Tube, Twitter & Instagram partake in the matter.
These people at the top of the food chain are quite brilliant.
Fascinating Stuff !!!
@@realtruth2817 Amazing what humans can talk themselves into believing.
As a Greek and a teacher of Greek literature, I can say without doubt that the Greek word "ακούω" means only " I hear". The theist is either ignorant or a liar (c.a. 2'40'')
id say both
the preacher is a typical american ignorant ass,spewing words without understanding.Their whole reliogion is based on stupid ,mangle og woe4ds and images.
Theists tend to be both ignorant AND liars.
@@rsr789 an unholy combination....
@@rsr789 I've watched thousands of christian callers on The Atheist Experience and it becomes very obvious that christians lie like the rest of us breathe. I wouldn't trust a christian as far as I could spit one.
You would think if there really was an historic Jesus preaching to large crowds, doing amazing things, that someone, somewhere would have written something about him at the time..... contemporary? Yet all we have is an antiquated old book by unknown authors compiled decades later.
Yes, and one of those disciples was supposed to be a tax collector (Matthew) and another was supposedly a physician (Luke) whose jobs would have required them to keep notes about important things, yet neither seemed to have been impressed enough to keep contemporaneous notes about their experiences with this man.
@@GitanandaChess Well, sort of. Luke never saw Jesus and was not a disciple. He supposedly was an acquaintance of Paul, but there is doubt that Paul actually wrote any of the Epistles; certainly half of them are forgeries. All we know about Paul is that he most likely did exist, but the Paul described in the Epistles was not the Paul that actually existed in the middle of the first century.
You would think that if the Romans burned every record in Judea then Dan Barker and other Jesus deniers would not play games and ask why are there no contemporary ones. But no they try to fool people by hiding the truth.
@@ardalla535 Paul had his secretary write some letters because he was in prison. Not forgeries. Why lie?
@@henochparks But Rome didn't go and burn every record in Judea. Where is that recorded? And, you'd think some of the many other historians (say 75+ ... not the 40 that Dr. Barker referenced) would have written some type of blurb about Jesus, but there is nothing from that period (even within Roman historians whose works are extant) that speaks of Jesus. It's as if he didn't exist -- just like all the other so-called God-Men.
He underestimates the power of what a cult can make people do and say
Organized religion is very dangerous. It is criminal activity.
Yep. I was in one. Totally true. I have never been a yes man and even I had a devotion to not necessarily Rick the boat; until I did.
That and Paul WASN'T an eye witness!
SUPERSTITION IS SIN. NOT SO WITH THE HOLY BIBLE WRITTEN BY GOD'S HOLY PROPHETS BY THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY JESUS CHRIST !!
Exhibit A: Trump and his MAGA sheep
The religionist throws the "I got more years of school than you" argument on Dan. I've seen this before. Religious people are proud of their credentials, the raw tonnage of their degrees, without regard to quality or educational value.
Ya I know right. Who's to say Dan's 2 years of studies wasn't better than his 7? we know of prodigy geniuses that know way more at a young age than most career scholars in any fields lol. Also to me, Dan was knowledgeable enuf in Greek to be able to rebuttal all that was thrown at him..
I noticed that Mike starts referring to credentials when he found himself being pushed into a corner by Dan.
Mike used ad hominem attacks elsewhere in the debate when Dan was pushing him on an uncomfortable topic.
Its not unfair to expect someone who believes in something that no one (especially the audience) has seen or experienced to explain themselves. Yet Mike acts as if the supernatural events he's describing is so obviously true that we should all just accept it without question.
They must have failed common sense 101.
He constantly brings up shaky arguments that he justifies fallaciously
@@honeysucklecat I'm sorry , could you please list all the people throughout history that have come back to life after they died .?
*Facts And Logic Destroy Theist Nonsense Every Time*
I mean, when thiest start using the term 'fact' intermingled or as a replacement for 'faith', it's impossible to argue with them.
@@rsr789 Fr
Youll never meet anymore merciless people than those who attend church weekly.
What you mean ??? please expand upon your thesis, thank you
You have no idea how much these words resonate with me and how right you are ❤ Christians are honestly the most hypocritical, insufferable and meanest people of any because their faith gives them the right to claim the moral high ground.
Dan Barker understands both worlds better than anyone else could possibly understand. Since he has moved into the non-believing world at his own feelings and convictions, it is nearly impossible for anyone to argue or say he is wrong, since he has mastered the ubderstanding of each world.
Someone's years studying Greek makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE
Dude, that said, I love Dan’s Greek knowledge arsenal.
“Oh yeah? Do you even *know* any Greek?”
“Matter of fact yes I do”
“😡😡😡”
One shouldn’t need twenty years of Greek study in order to understand what is supposed to be the most important message ever given to mankind. Any reason why God couldn’t have simply been clear?
Or given the info to the Chinese, who would soon start using wood block printing, i.e. mass production of texts.
He works in mysterious ways. /sarcasm
I see you don't understand. You have no idea of the controversy that Jesus caused with his teachings against the current of Jewish beliefs. He was clear but many did not understand him, they condemned him and killed him, just like those who do not understand the Bible and speak about it as if he knew without having sought to understand the message. Just in case I don't belong to any particular religion. It is not about religiosity but about discernment.
@@jorgegabrielnarvaez5914 I find it weird that the only thing you did was to reiterate that the Bible is a confusing mess that one shouldn’t need twenty years of Greek in order to understand. And one year later I’m still asking “why didn’t god just make this oh so important message clear?”
@@SPL0869 to separate the sheep from the wolves. Whoever received Him with their heart, He will open their mind so that they can truly understand and comprehend what is written.
If Jesus is real and in their hearts and they have a personal relationship with him...why do they need to convince anyone? It sounds like they are trying to convince themselves that he is real.
That;s a great point.
Cause deep down they don’t really believe
How can it be a personal relationship if there are millions of other personal relationships? It''s like saying , she's my personal lover but Tom, Bill, James, Fred, Dave and Peter are also nailing her. Is that your idea of personal ? Please try to think for yourself.
Because they believe everyone has to hear the “good news” before Jesus comes back. Proselytizing is one of their missions to each convert a bunch of people
"Biblical Scholar" = Star Wars fan. Both put a lot of time and effort into studying a work of fiction.
Jesus Christ is risen
And only one of them is good fiction
@@toma3447 pp]ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp]ppppp]ppppppppppppppppppppppppp]pppp]ppppppppppppppppppppp]]ppppppp]pppppppppppppppppppppp]pppppp]ppppppppppppppppppppppppp]pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp]ppppppppppp]pppppppppppppppppp
May as well have a degree in Pokémon.
Star Wars is much better book/movie than bible 😂😂😂
When someone happily sits there with total conviction debating what certain words could mean from written translations of copied ancient Greek documents where there are no originals that were written by unknown authors using unknown eye witness testimonies years after the supposed events where four stories are needed to tell one story you have got ask yourself ‘is this all God, who is the creator of life, the universe and everything, who is all knowing and timeless, is giving you to work with? Or does it all sound like every other man made mythical made up load of crap that people have always believed in at some point throughout history?
humm when you arrest and imprison every Bishop, burn every copy of their scriptures, execute or imprison their leaders, kill them for believing in a religion, outlaw their religion for centuries, then years later when they try to reorganize their oral traditions there might be might have errors. What is sad is that some jerks claim 2,000 years later their leader never existed. Grow up dude.
@@henochparks You are incorrect. When was any Bishop ever imprisoned or killed? That did not happen. Their religion was not outlawed. It was just one of the many religions that was tolerated in the Roman rule. The persecution of Christians was very overblown and (possibly) an outright fabrication devised to gain converts. Yes, a few did die, but not the numbers that were promulgated in Christian stories of persecution.
@@PoeLemic HAHAHA you lived in the first three centuries AD? There are numerous letters by Romans writers dealing with the "Christian problem" There are numerous testimonies of Christian leaders being arrested, imprisoned, and executed. You are goofy!
It is amazing that in the face of every storm God preserved the scriptures for thousands of years and that it continues to be the best and best-selling book in the history of humanity.
@@jorgegabrielnarvaez5914 God has not preserve the scriptures. There are no original scriptures and what scriptures we have were created by man from whatever dubious copies they were copied from at that time that were also created by man. God totally relies on man to create and preserve his supposed holy scriptures. The oldest complete bibles are Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus around 300-350AD, with earlier fragments of scripture. I wouldn't call that very well preserved by God.
Which bible is the best selling book? You have Catholic Bibles, Protestant Bibles, Mormon Bibles etc. There are many versions, New International Version (NIV), King James Version (KJV) New Living Translation (NLT), English Standard Version (ESV, New King James Version (NKJV), Christian Standard Bible (CSB), New American Standard Bible (NASB) etc, with too many to list here. I think if you chose one it would not be the best selling book of all time, but I suppose your claim is based on ‘The Bible’ which I think is quite dishonest, it’s like me saying ‘The Dictionary’ is the best selling book of all time. There have been many books added and subtracted within these bibles over time, never mind the added and subtracted passages within these bibles, for example the three or four possible endings for Mark’s gospel, the verse in John 8:7 He who is without sin cast the first stone is not in the earliest texts. Also why does your great all powerful magical God need to ‘sell’ his book in the first place? So people can make money from it, that is truly laughable.
Christianity: The belief that a Jew who was born to a virgin and who was his own father, can turn water to wine, walk on water, became a zombie after being dead for 3 days, can make you live forever in an enchanted invisible place if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in all humanity because a woman, who was made from a man's rib, was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
And it's All true! REPENT SINNER!!!! Repent or ... Perish.
all sounds plausible to me
@@chiricahuaapache5132 hahahahahahhahahahhaaaaaa good one
Dan was criticized twice for using different lines of reasoning when all he was doing was trying to show that his opponent's arguments fail from not just one, but multiple perspectives.
The religious people get upset when you don't follow their script. "I say A and you say B. No, I said 'You say B.' You say B!!!" If you don't follow their script, they assume you are trying to eff with them and call you "disrespectful".
@keke8880 and non believers turn to mocking believers.
Mike reminds me of the host on Ancient Aliens when the host poses a question and follows it up with the statement "ancient astronaut theorists say yes".
🖖👍
haha nice one.
I like how he responds without hate just fact
i think most apologists don't really believe but are innit for the money but with mike i really think he believes in this nonsense
@@James-po6ibwhen did he deal in ANY facts
If he can rise from the dead, he can appear before people and end this charade
Ha ha ha...
He will because Jesus is returning as bible prophecy says.
@@ianbetts4435 bullshit
He appeared according to the gospels. Then he appeared to Paul 2+ years after the resurrection. His appearance to everyone else will have to wait for more than 2,000 years. What a ruse!
If he existed ..
Dan. You really put him in his place. Your knowledge in the Bible and it’s interpretation is awesome. He will change his mind, his brain is in default mode.
Will never happen his salary depends on believing this nonsense
Dan was giving a natural explanation for Paul’s Jesus vision as lightning strike etc.What about he made it all up, that seems more naturalistic to me.
why he died for something he made up?
@@henpineswhy did the 9/11 bombers do that?
@@SNORKYMEDIA to save people
„You have no evidence that it‘s a legend.“ lol
Dan Barker is clearly right, but he frequently argues from a weak position in regards to the record. There are so many things he has no need to grant his opponent, and they often become bogged down in translation because of it. He could have had a much more decisive win if he didn't meander into minutiae.
Sure. But the debate subject had a very specific narrow focus.
Dan was revisiting proposed text translation to see how these supposed “75% of scholars” could have reached a consensus conclusion on the “belief” of the “apostles” testimony of “resurrection”.
I had a similar reaction. The contradiction in Acts regarding hearing and not hearing triggered a detour about "how much Greek you know" and "understanding versus hearing." Apologetics like Mike will drag the Dans of this world through the mud of their pseudo scholarship of "in this case the word means this but in that case the word means that according to 75% of the scholars." Compare the New Testament (NT) with Euclid's Elements (E). E was written about 4 centuries before NT. Both are compilations of several contributors. NT is supposed to be the word of god; for some, literally; for others, inspired by. One would expect that a book written or inspired by god; a book that is necessary for our eternal salvation...would be perfect! Instead, its many contradictions have triggered awful wars. Philip Jenkins's "Jesus Wars" narrates the interminable wars among five patriarchates of the first centuries of Christianity, all of them justified under their contradictory interpretations of NT. By the way, no war was ever fought to resolve a mathematical disputation.
A long preamble to say that upon reflecting, I think Dan was considering the audience that favors Mike's irrationality, and for them the triviality of understanding versus hearing is important. Initially, I agreed with you; but upon reflection I disagree.
I disagree. I think it's great for believers who are impressed by Greek study or whatever to hear Dan breakdown those details on par with the religious guy.
“When you believe in things you don’t understand, you suffer. Superstition
ain’t the way”. Stevie Wonder.
SUPERSTITION IS SIN. NOT SO WITH THE HOLY BIBLE WRITTEN BY GOD'S HOLY PROPHETS BY THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY JESUS CHRIST !!
@@johnstewart4350 A very superstitious belief you expressed there (IN ALL CAPS), John.
@@BorisNoiseChannel EVERY SINGLE PERSON WILL BE JUDGED IN REVELATION 20 BY JESUS CHRIST, WHO SITS ON THE WHITE THRONE. IT IS TRUE THAT YOUR DEMONS HATE THE TRUTH, BECAUSE THEY AS INCLUDED YOU- WILL BE TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOREVER AND EVER... IF YOU DO NOT REPENT OF YOUR SINS ON YOUR KNEES AND WORSHIP YOUR CREATOR JESUS CHRIST !!
STEVIE WONDER IS CONDEMNED AS WELL AS THE FALSE PROPHET ON THE STAGE--WITH ALL OF YOU CHRIST-HATERS OF MY LIVING LOVING LORD GOD ALMIGHTY JESUS CHRIST !!
@@BorisNoiseChannel BECAUSE SATAN HATES CHRIST, HIS BIBLE, AND HIS DOCTRINE... (YOU ARE THE ONE THAT WILL SUFFER FOR ETERNITY IF NOT THROWING YOURSELF AT HIS FEET... COUNTDOWN TO HEAVEN & HELL !!
If he died for our sins And came back to life well then what did he sacrifice
An entire life without sin rejecting carnal pleasure. Never being selfish. In other words, I renounce the flesh for eternal life in fullness and love. What no one has been able to do. Does it seem little to you? With this act he defeated death and the decline of those who embrace this world so that everyone who believes in Him may be justified through Him and have eternal life. He renounced everything carnal for you and gave his life, the greatest act of love that someone can do for you.
@@jorgegabrielnarvaez5914it's a story in an old book
@@jorgegabrielnarvaez5914why couldn’t he just forgave? Why the need to kill part of himself to do it? My kids don’t need to sacrifice one of our cats in order for me to forgive them when they do something wrong. It’s nonsense if you think about it.
A weekend off.
If Iam assured of being risen up after three days of my death, then I will gladly die for you …. What’s the big deal ?
This was an incredible debate. I wish it'd better video and taping equipment, and been nice if it was 1080p. But, I loved the content. Thank you for saving & sharing this debate.
In this day of mass communication and huge transparancy where events are watched across the globe as they are unfolding - and yet still there is disagreement as to what exactly is happening (I'm thinking of things like the last American presidential election, the war in Ukraine etc etc) - I find it incredible that an educated man can talk about conversations with such unwavering certainty , as if he was there, that took place not only 2,000 years ago but were not even written about until 20 - 50 years after they supposedly happened and written about by unknown authors that were not even present during the events!
Right!
I find myself cringing at having ever earnestly believed such utter nonsense. I sincerely hope some day my family will find their way to rationality and freedom.
It's a form of child indoctrination, i.e. child abuse.
Sick and tired of RESURECTION.
Who went to the tomb?
Matthew 28:1 2 Marys Mark 16:1 2 Marys & Salome
Luke 24:10 5 women John 20:1 Mary Magdalene
Was the tomb open when they arrived?
Matthew 28:2 No Mark 16:4 Yes Luke 24:2 Yes John 20:1 Yes
Who was at the tomb when they arrived?
Matthew 28:2-7 One angel Mark 16:5 A young man
Luke 24:4 Two men John 20:11-12 Two angels
Where did Jesus first appeared to the disciples?
Matthew 28:16-17 Galilee
John 20:19 & Luke: 24:33-37 Jerusalem
Did both thieve revile Jesus?
Mark 15:32, Matthew 27:44 Both thieves reviled Jesus.
Luke 23:39-42 Only one thief reviled Jesus.
Where did Jesus tell his disciples to go after his resurrection?
Matthew 28:10, Mark, 16:7 Go to Galilee.
Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4 Stay in Jerusalem.
When Mary returned from the tomb, did she know Jesus had been resurrected?
Matthew 28:7-8 Yes Mark 16:10-11 Yes
Luke 24:6-9, 23 Yes John 20:2 No
How many disciples did Jesus appear to in this post resurrection appearance?
1Corinthians 15:5 the Twelve? (why 12, Judas was already dead!).
Mark 16:12-14, Luke 24:33-37 Two disciples in Emmaus, later to eleven.
Matthew 28:16-17, Luke 24:33-37 Eleven. John 20:19-24 (Judas & Thomas were absent) Ten
What day and what time was Jesus crucified?
Mark 14:12 On the day after the Passover meal.
John 19:14 The day before the Passover meal.
Mark 15:25 9 AM. Some translations say, the third hour.
John 19:14-15 Noon. Some translations say, the sixth hour.
How many days and nights Christ was in the grave?
Matthew 12:40, Acts 10:40, Luke 18:31-33 three days and three nights.
Mark 16:2, Matthew 28:1, Luke 24:1, John 20:1 less than two days.
Were the disciples frightened or glad when they saw Jesus?
Luke 24:37 frightened John 20:20 glad
Did Mary Magdalene recognize Jesus when he first appeared to her?
Matthew 28:9 Yes John 20:14 No
👹👌
Very nicely done
I need to print this out. 👍🏼👍🏼
how the hell did a penniless rabbi end up in a stone tomb? who paid for that? he would have ended up in a mass grave like all the others....
And can I say what about the people who rose from there graves when Jesus's died you don't here to much about that 🤔.
Mike obviously doesn't know what the word "eyewitness" means. He constantly says people giving secondhand information are an eyewitness to an event.
Mike to Dan at the end... "I appreciated this debate, Dan. It's been fun. But please understand, the God I love, follow, and praise for His infinite love and wisdom will be burning and torturing you for for eternity with no perceivable benefit to anyone. Goodnight, everybody."
I find it really disturbing that an all loving, all powerful God or savior that wants all of us to spend eternity with it, him, or her can be so Insecure to the point that we have to love it more than self, more than your own family, and more than your own kids. The way god has been described sounds a lot like human!!
Yup, a really bad and unadjusted human (what comes to mind are all the most vile qualities and traits the average caring human abhors).
It is hard to imagine that "He" exists, other than in the imagination of delusional faith followers. And if he does, I would gladly tell him to gtfooh.
When the atheist debating you knows your scriptures better than you do 💯
Which is always the case with atheists and it's so satisfying to see the religious bigots squirm! 😇😇😇
To be fair to Mike, Dan was a pastor and evangelical preacher, so he has read the scriptures.
@@rsr789 Most atheists have read the buy-bull... in fact in a recent survey, the reading of the bible was the NUMBER ONE reason given in response to the question, "What made you become an atheist?" LOL! 😄
I want to believe in a caring god that will take myself and all my friends and family to some spiritual utopia in the clouds one day, but my b.s. detector prevents me from buying into any of the gods depicted in ancient texts. They all sound man-made to me and those talking about having a personal relationship with some invisible deity just sounds delusional and child-like. It just seems like a fear-based belief system. There may very well be some unseen intelligence responsible for everything, but it doesn't appear to give a rat's ass about us on a personal level.
Jesus says, God is not invisible to the pure of heart, do you have a pure heart?
@@blackagendermuslim7198 Jesus says? Are you kidding me? You have based your entire life around a book written by various primitive science-deficient authors who promise you an everlasting life because you're terrified of death and not existing. In other words, you're delusional so don't talk to me about what "Jesus said" you nutball. Better read up on the Flavian Family of Rome.
@@Monster_Mover_Stocks Why do you hate me for telling you the truth? The Shroud of Turin is your 3d photegraphic scientific Proof. Peace Out
@@blackagendermuslim7198 Hate is a strong word that I never directed at you. Your "truth" lacks any credible evidence. Do you believe every unverifiable thing that you read in old books?
@@Monster_Mover_Stocks the shroud of turin is scientific forensic verifiable truth, you think? but can you see it? ruclips.net/video/C8pqhEKcw8Y/видео.html
What? There's no Santa Claus? Damn!
There is, he turns up in December every year, hasn’t aged a bit. 😂🤣😂🤣😂
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply to painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back."-Carl Sagan.
...an alleged god-man performs many unprecedented miracles, up to and including cheating death, in front of multitudes of people in the relatively literate society of the Roman Empire, yet not a single person is known to have written a single word about Jesus, his ministry, or his miracles until decades after his death. Not a single word about Jesus is known to have been written during his lifetime. This alone should give a rational person pause.
Well
OBVIOUSLY people were prevented from Writing about him by SATAN to deceive people
Or
By YAHWEH to test people's FAITH
Duh🙄
PS : Sarcasm
And Dan can tell this guy that 10 times and 10 different ways and yet he goes right back to, well, this is what the Bible says!
@@seanwilliams480to be fair, that is their only argument. "The bible says..."
Before jesus there were several prophets who also resurrected. Books are written such away to put these prophets above the average. Walking on water & other miracles samething.
It is truly embarassing that we are still debating whether or not A MAN ROSE FROM THE DEAD AND ROSE INTO THE SKY. Too make the debate even dumber is that the accounts were written at least 70 years after the fact using nothing but hearsay. You may as well believe in Paul Bunyon or John Henry.
They’ll never deny those Ancient Fairytales because they’ve been Indoctrinated and Trained to believe that if they do they’ll
be Terrorized and Tortured In Hell For All Eternity 🤨.
Those Ancients sure knew how to scare the ShitZzz Outta People In Order To Keep Them Believing🤣.
"how do you explain Saul's Damascus road experience" - its a STORY in an old book. Doesnt mean it actually happened.
One obvious conclusion: By chosing to record his divine word in now-dead languages, God has severely hampered our ability to correctly and fully parse his messages. If multiple highly-qualified scolars can't arrive at a firm consensus on something as basic as the meaning of words, how can simple layfolk hope to ever receive God's true message?
I know it’s like god gave this whole message to humanity thing very little thought
Christians tampered with the documents and there are many naturalistic explanations. Job done.
Modern humans invent fictional characters to indulge their fantasies, Batman, Wonderwoman, Spiderman. Ancient people invented super heroes too. What else would you do to keep the attention of children while sitting around the fire?
Attacking credentials is a sign of defeat.
It’s hard to talk to religious people because they use everything to prove their topic. They bring up different texts from bible they stick them together so they have a meaning which they want
Greek or not its still a fable.
@Dean Martinson You understand that everything present as historical but without demonstrable evidence is just a fable, right?
@Dean Martinson it's all over the bible, and all over the world. Search for it and you will find it. But you won't. So: it's ok.
Simple word. Living creatures do not come back from the dead. It is a rule dictated by nature and it has never be broken.
It's not a rule or dictated.
What's really stupid is all believers agree that God want us all to follow his word but yet he's always speaking in parables and riddles that confuse 😕 people and yet hold you accountable for not following something that you don't understand...Notice how they always try to explain how someone who's studied a particular subject has a high level of intelligence and they said this or that to try an prove their point because they simply can't do it...
Aries - I feel your pain. My heart desperately wants to believe and my upbringing taught me to do so. My rational brain, given to me by God, demands strong evidence for the extraordinary claims in the Bible. If I were to use the same threshold of evidence for other extrordinary claims made by men throughout history, most people would call me gullible. What I find to be personally painful, is that I feel as though I might be disappointing some as of yet unrevealed, "true God" by believing in the God of the Bible. What a terrible predicament.
The preachers whole argument: “Jesus is true because the Bible is true and the Bible is true because Jesus is true.” It became boring listening to him because all his supposed evidence was from what he read in the Bible. Regardless how Dan detailed the complete unreliability of anything in any biblical writings relating to the time Jesus supposedly lived, he just returned again and again to listing the witnesses in the Bible that Dan just proved to be unreliable records by unknown authors.
The common theme in religion is that there's no proof. All the bodies of the prophets conveniently float up to heaven so as to leave no proof. Isn't that telling?
The christian has memorized a lot of names, numbers, alleged dates, and stories about them. I think it gives him and others who do the same, a false sense of expertise- hence why he got upset when Dan said he too has studied Greek like him. After hearing about Dan's 2 years of Greek (to his "5!!!"), the Christian then says, "Well, we are getting off topic." First it's crucial that he has all these years of Greek study, then suddenly it's "off topic?"
There is no blinder person than the one who doesn’t want to see, and I’m referring to the theist guy
no one likes the idea of leaving the party and it carrying on without you but believing in an old man in the sky does you no good
We know that a Greek church rose from the Pauline teachings, but where are the churches that should have come from the twelve disciples? Isn’t it strange there are no Jewish churches that stem from the twelve disciples Jesus “picked himself”? Considering “there were so many witnesses,” and considering “five hundred dead people rose from the dead and walked the streets of Jerusalem,” wouldn’t there be many believers in Israel?
Declaring the inerrancy of the Bible off-limits in a discussion of the resurrection is akin to discussing the Loch Ness Monster while demanding no mention of the Loch. You have a book riddled with contradictions and factual errors that was written decades after the purported events by anonymous authors being held up by one of the debaters as fact. His need to rationalize nonsense is particularly frightening given his obvious intellect.
Licona could persuade himself Santa scored the winning goal in the World Cup final if he had to
he believed that story that the old biddy told him about the dustbins so you are probably right
@23:00 "Where you've got two you've got one." So there's no contradiction between a version that says there was one man at the grave site and a version that says there were two. Jesus fucking christ, these people torture logic.
Why are all those omnipotent, omnipresent, and all-knowing gods ... hiding?! Believers are waiting for second acts...
only the pure in heart can see God, do you have a pure heart? Peace Out
@@@blackagendermuslim7198 But you actually do, right? And we should believe you, why exactly?
@@darkblueman Sure, why not, what do you have to lose?
@@blackagendermuslim7198 Either that's not a serious question or I just entered cloud-cuckoo-land.
@@darkblueman with all due respect, are you no longer capable of recognizing the difference between Good and evil behavior, if not, then you have already entered the cloud cuckoo -land.
Dan you are really doing a very good job , please keep going like Christopher Hitchens & Richard Dawkins and all those others ..thank you for getting out of your comfort zone .
One of the better, respectful debate from a theist that I've seen. 🙂
Yeah and Spiderman was a supervisor at local Wal-Mart where Jesus was checking receipts at the door 👁👃🏼👁
Thanks for the sneaky sermon at the end. No need to push your beliefs on other people. No thanks
It doesnt take a genius to read the Strongs Concordance to study the bible in the original greek and Hebrew. I studied my way into being an atheist too. Debating a story book is frustrating. The Paul experience is simply a made up story.Never happened. That's what I would tell them.
When all the talking's done. When all the smoke has cleared the truth is that "dead is dead". Even if a person could be brought back from a state of being dead today or in the future no-one could be brought back from being truly dead in the first century CE.
My question is.... why would an omnipotent, intelligent being use religion as the means to communicate with the intelligent species it had created?
people believe the nonsense because they are afraid of dying
Lol! That's a bloody good question! 😄
I've watched both Dan and Bart Ehrman hand this guy his ass with no problem. What the hell does he put himself out there like that? LOL
FTR: I came from being a hardcore evangelical pastor and evangelist for most of my life and studied to bible to be a "super Christian" and like Dan and many others... found out how ridiculous all that was.
Powerful writing.
Dan knows his stuff..👍🇬🇧
No he doesnt
Even if they had stronger evidence than other religions (which they don't), the fact they claim all others who believe differently are filthy rags deserving of torture will always convince me it's a man-made, manipulative package of dogma, rather than the truth. Something that is true does not require so many excuses.
Could Jesus have become the Son of God if he just died on the cross- and that was it? No, the 'Resurrection' was cooked up afterwards to embellish and reinforce the whole story.
Once again god makes it impossible to agree, or hear him. The hidden fictional god never stops canceling all potential proof.
Hahaha 😂 Dan Barker takes the W, composed, articulate and clear questions that were actively avoided by the opposition.
The christian tapdancing and dishonesty shown here knows no bounds. It's so diabolically evasive , it's actually infuriating to listen to.
Mike, how many college courses you have on semantics?
😂
You know he was hoping that when he asked how many years of Greek Dan had, Dan would reply, "Uhhh none 😢"
I'm 63 and when I was a teenager and read Mathew 14:31 when Peter supposedly walked on water and was looking if this story of Jesus was real. I thought to myself, there is an easy solution to find out all this Jesus, miracles, power of faith... was real. All Christians (At will) should be able to create miracles out of love and need as Jesus did... Still waiting after 50 years. And 'they' always have an excuse. Either you/they have the faith, or you/they don't. STOP sugar coating! I couldn't be a Christian like those peoples any longer. Ex-Christain!
I wish Dan would have brought this out but the "Creed" mentioned by the "Greek Expert" was found not to have been written by the apostles nor in the time the "expert" mentions but was more likely written in the 6th or 7th century. Thus so much for the other guys "evidence".
It’s unfortunate that their debate time is dependent on the sitting duration of the audience, I could listen to this for houra
Women going to anoint a decomposed male dead body was not permissible in jews but the authors of the gospels who wrote this story were Greek nationals, written without knowing the jews' funeral customs.
The young guy gaslights to compensate for lack of knowledge
Corinthians 14:33 “God is not the author of confusion”. Meanwhile, these guys have years of Greek scholarship and know the Bible inside out. None of them can agree on what these verses mean. 99% of most believers can’t speak ancient Greek or the Aramaic language spoken by the people in the book itself. Seems like a recipe for confusion.
The Epistles should be called Opinions Of ... Unless God used the Apostles as ventriloquist's dummies.
Poor Mike, should have worn his dancing shoes....
Tap dancing shoes.
Nah...he did well....made the debate interesting
Do Christians believe out of fear of hell or love?
At 1:00 hour mark Mike suddenly is muted an his response is errased ..... wtf? I hope the christian organization hosting this debate is not hiding anyrhing
The one gentleman, uses the Bible, to prove his points, that’s ridiculous
Peter thought, as a Jew, there was no afterlife, and he knew that Jesus wasn't God, so he lied to avoid certain death.
Wow we all are in need of a hero.
Lookin around these days I get it, but I think we should agree about good stuff and support each other with the dealings of big business and the government involvement.
Wake up people
well.... all my friends say it happened.... so it is a fact
You're scraping the barrel when your argument amounts to a slightly incorrect translation.
How can we seriously debate about a subject when the book it derived from is questionable in itself. To read it with your "eyes opened" will give you nightmares. And the fact, that this religion wants you to feel unworthy and sinful by birth is so much like the beginning of a brain wash process.
Q: What evidence do you have that Jesus existed?
A: The bible.
Q: Do you have any proof other than the bible?
*** crickets *** or word salad.
I want to applaud the debate moderator for actually letting them debate. The guy against the motion who believes in Jesus only mentions people from the Bible except for one person. You can't cite the Bible and use it as evidence. Also I find it hard to trust someone who uses consensus as truth or fact. He kept using the argument that most scholars agree with him which has nothing to do with truth. Millions of people can all be wrong just look at climate change perfect example.
I am not an athiest because I understand the value of faith and how it can move mountains.
If Jesus ascended to heaven physically 2000 years ago at the speed of light he wouldn't even be out of our solar system yet.
Not far out of the galaxy, at least. Even the Mormons would have to admit he still has a long way to go before reaching Kolob. (Look it up.) I'm not sure where your standard Christians think Heaven is. My mother used to say, "another dimension," whatever that means, exactly.
PAUL ONLY SEEN A BRIGHT LIGHT ON THE ROAD
DOESN'T SAY IT WAS JESUS
This guy is a walking advertisement for atheists as spiritual kindergartners.
No one can disprove a resurrection 2000 years ago, he just gave plausible explanations. People have religious experiences and visions all the time. People also exaggerate and lie often. People also die for their religions, Jews killed themselves rather than be converted to Christianity. Muslims and Bhuddists have died for their religion too. Do you deny that?
Now why would an all powerful God who desires a relationship with us ever allow us to debate his existence so much? This simply shows he doesn't exist
an all powerful God would easily be able to reveal themselves to us right now and remove all doubts of his existence.
On a serious note, it always irritates the bejesus out of me when someone asks an atheists to prove that something doesn't exist. Do they not realize how stupid of a request that is? How it is literally impossible? Prove to me that I can't fly. I need evidence! I know I can fly. No one else has seen it, but if no one believes I can fly, they better prove I can't. Actually, that would be pretty easy if they just throw me off a building. lol Guess I shouldn't tempt ignorance.
"Never argue with an idiot... they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!" (Mark Twain).
Theres nothing in the world that could ever make me believe one word of this fictitious nonsense.
Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. The court only needs first hand testimonies. The belief in god should be treated more than a court since the needed facts of believing in god claims should be extraordinary. Therefore stories narrated in new testament could not be merited as evidence.
When I hear apologists defending their beliefs I can’t help wondering if they ever hear how crazy they sound. If even for just a moment do they hear themselves?
resurrection says this- Life goes on beyond death! And Life is valuable. Ascension is better than death.
I would say Paul's credibility is discredited due too the characters actions that he killed people, I'd tend not too listen too any wisdom a killer would want too spew out and write down