I think every RUclipsrs worst fear is spending time and effort to make a video this good only to watch the algorithm kill it for no discernible reason. The only thing I could think of is smash players coming only because they see a melee player in the title and thumbnail then dip after the subject changes. Either way, I enjoyed this video very much and hope it gets the recognition it deserves.
lol I won't lie - I was definitely not happy about how this video performed when I first released it (it had like, 200 views in the first week?). But I do think I have a long way to go when it comes to making videos, and this one was a good step towards improving, so I'm still glad I made it!
@@RESPRiT glad you're keepin with it! You've got a great cadence in your videos. Hopefully the atrioc shoutout does you some good and kicks the algo into gear
@@RESPRiT I will say, although your videos are genuinely goated, your thumbnail game is dogshit. My eyes glaze over when I look at your thumbnail, although I can't really say why.
@@RESPRiT here from atrioc, sure improvements always can be made but that's certainly not the problem with this video, i'll tell you that right now. i love the amount of effort and research you put into this, great vid dude
surprised how nobody in the comments mentioned that Cloud's Cross Slash hitbox in Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate is fundamentally different depending on which way he's facing, WhyDo made a really funny informative video on the topic
Great video! I was aware of chess favouring white but the Starcraft, TF2 and Rocket League differences I had never considered. Interestingly enough, when the video started I immediately thought of Tekken. It won't be apparent to low level players (I remember on Core-A Gamings video about this subject there were a lot of people in the comments who basically said "these players suck, each side is the same.") but being on your preferred side is absolutely an advantage. Movement options like Korean backdashing, wavedashing, backsway and Hayashida step can feel very different depending on which side you play on. There's also some examples of objective advantages depending on your side. In T7, Kazuya is a character well-known to have a lot of key moves that can be evaded by sidestepping to the left. His f4, a mid-hitting axe kick, forces the opponent into crouch on block. If you're on P1 side, you can block this and immediately sidestep left after the recovery, but if you're on P2 side, this is straight up impossible. Stepping left would mean tapping down, but you can only do this if your character is standing. Since there's a certain number of frames that it takes for your character to go from crouching to standing, it means even with frame-perfect reactions and inputs, it would be physically impossible to sidestep left fast enough to evade his subsequent attacks. Strangely enough, my favourite tabletop game ever revels in asymmetrical play. That being Keyforge, the game where every single deck in the world is unique. Often times it's not clear, even to top level players, which decks have an advantage over the other, and there's a lot of on-the-fly decision making and puzzle solving, as you're likely to face situations that you've never seen before. Since you can't build decks, the meta is incredibly loose, and you see all kinds of weird and wonderful decks, (not to mention all the different formats allowing for different avenues of play) and players have to rely on their own experience and knowledge rather than being able to rely on blog posts to tell them what to play. It's even possible to have decks with combos that no other deck in the world has. (One of my favourite decks named The Vain Rogue has something like this.)
Awesome video, loved it! And you mentioned unreal tournament 2004, which is my all-time favorite multiplayer competitive game :D. Another thing to note in Unreal Tournament is that everyone knew that certain characters had smaller hitboxes and lesser visibility. It was the females that were way more slender and harder to see and hit versus the mongoloid, beefed-out dudes!
i definitely felt the Team Fortress 2 koth_viaduct imbalance as soldier. The rollout isn't the same on red because of the map mirroring needing the player to perform left sided rocket jumps, which is something you just don't practice due to the unergonomic hand positioning and conflicting muscle memory. It's worth mentioning the map used in competitive play is called product (pro+viaduct) which of course fixes the issue, tweaks chokes/sightlines, and uses a green spring aesthetic for visual clarity. might me misremembering tho lol
game theory did a video on how the red vs blue color dynamic gives red a statistical advantage in their competitive wins , BUT this is only the case for adrenaline twitch reflexive games/sports , as the reverse is true with strategic and more long term games which shows blue have won more games overall
btw league actually does have height values in the map, the river is lower to the floor than the jg and lane is, so people often miss skillshots from jg to river
Just make it so that all players are team blue on their own screen, regardless of which team they are. It's probably not possible to do something like this in real life sports, but it would be no big deal for programmers to implement it in their games.
I absolutely have a prefered side or camera angle in most games I play, to the point where I'll sacrifice opportunities to make tangible progress in order to adjust my position or camera to something I'm more comfortable with.
In pool (8-ball) I’ve always believed that stripes have an advantage over solids because the balls are more easily distinguished from the felt. Just throwing in another example in a symmetrical game.
I love the video, it’s so sad it gets little attention. I think maybe the title is part of the reason as this video is about loads of different games, not just melee and people outside of the melee community won’t click on the video.
I think your right. I am not a fan of "smash" type games at all and I really debated watching this for that reason. I figured it would be yet another half-a$$ tip of the iceberg dive into some subtle game mechanic of smash bros.
It's absolutely possible to create a perfectly balanced game. First, let's take a cue from shogi and rather than using different colours, we give each piece a pointy end. Then, we take a cue from Diplomacy and have each player write their move in secret, and carry them out at the same time. We'll have to figure out what happens when moves conflict, but that shouldn't be too difficult by itself. Perhaps something like... each move is simulated as though the other hasn't yet happened, and if two pieces land on the same square at the end, they annihilate each other. Of course, you can still have problems like one player sitting somewhere where the sunlight shining in through the window makes it a little harder to look at the game board and such, but those happen in specific individual games, rather than being an consistent imbalance that flows directly from the game theory. Also, because chess clocks are actually unbalanced (you have to move a piece and hit the clock with the same hand in tournament play, meaning you might have to move pieces with your left hand one game and your right the other) let's allow both sides of the clock to be independently positioned, so even using a clock won't create an imbalance, since you're allowed to put it on whichever side you prefer. Now, is this worth all the effort? Probably not. Honestly, lots of games are _more_ fun for the slight imbalance they have, not _less._ Deliberately designed imbalances can be very interesting, requiring you to adapt to the situation in ways that you wouldn't in more balanced games. Think of your classic "swordsmen vs horsemen vs archers" kind of triangle that you find in many tactics games, or even something like Pokémon's type system, not to mention all its stats and learnsets that are different for each Pokémon. In those games, these kinds of fundamental imbalances don't typically get the chance to matter. Though there are certainly also games where it's problematic. In the end, it's important to decide what's worth dealing with and what's not. You have to draw the line somewhere.
I know one game that is absolutely balanced. It's tetris 1v1. It's real time, so no first player advantage and Your board is always wherever you want it to be. One might argue that the randomized pieces make it unbalanced, but modern tetris uses a 7 bag system (aka every group of 7 pieces in a row include one of each piece) and all pieces + their order are the same across both players so it's not a matter of who gets better pieces, but a matter of who uses the pieces better.
I think a better angle for this video would have been "games you thought were symmetrical but aren't" and then go into a little more details for the examples. It felt a bit meandering as is
It's not cause red is harder to see or that blue makes you play more strategically. It's because in rocket league red is a heavier color and slows your car down, while blue is lighter and let's you zoom around more. Just the facts.
It's not remotely difficult to find symmetrical games or sports, I don't know why you went through so many that were obviously not symmetrical before landing on rocket league which, very arguably, has at most some asymmetry. This isn't "is there such thing as a balanced game", it's "silly quirks in otherwise somewhat symmetrical games". You get a C- for not addressing the prompt (or, for mislabeling the video)
about LoL and blue having an advantage, it also has an advantage with the team color itself, because being on blue team causes you think more calmly and strategically, while red causes you to think more aggressively, and be braver. though i'm not sure how trustworthy this is
Good ass RUclips video but just have to stop using smash bros as your back bone I think it’s limiting your audience to only people who know who hungry box is or play smash. I think more people woulda watched this video about inequality in video games if just the title and thumb nail were different. Just constructive criticism but I love the shit your putting out just don’t put yourself in a box
![Diggy Graves - Red Vineyard [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8Ro085T0mnQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I think every RUclipsrs worst fear is spending time and effort to make a video this good only to watch the algorithm kill it for no discernible reason. The only thing I could think of is smash players coming only because they see a melee player in the title and thumbnail then dip after the subject changes. Either way, I enjoyed this video very much and hope it gets the recognition it deserves.
lol I won't lie - I was definitely not happy about how this video performed when I first released it (it had like, 200 views in the first week?). But I do think I have a long way to go when it comes to making videos, and this one was a good step towards improving, so I'm still glad I made it!
@@RESPRiT glad you're keepin with it! You've got a great cadence in your videos. Hopefully the atrioc shoutout does you some good and kicks the algo into gear
@@RESPRiT I will say, although your videos are genuinely goated, your thumbnail game is dogshit. My eyes glaze over when I look at your thumbnail, although I can't really say why.
@@TheStaccado the atrioc shoutout brought me here. well done you got a new subscriber! just keep at it :)
@@RESPRiT here from atrioc, sure improvements always can be made but that's certainly not the problem with this video, i'll tell you that right now. i love the amount of effort and research you put into this, great vid dude
surprised how nobody in the comments mentioned that Cloud's Cross Slash hitbox in Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate is fundamentally different depending on which way he's facing, WhyDo made a really funny informative video on the topic
Thanos in shambles
This video is criminally underviewed. I hope this channel blows up because this was an awesome video!
Wow, this was an incredibly well made entertaining video! Definitely underrated channel!
Great video! I was aware of chess favouring white but the Starcraft, TF2 and Rocket League differences I had never considered.
Interestingly enough, when the video started I immediately thought of Tekken. It won't be apparent to low level players (I remember on Core-A Gamings video about this subject there were a lot of people in the comments who basically said "these players suck, each side is the same.") but being on your preferred side is absolutely an advantage. Movement options like Korean backdashing, wavedashing, backsway and Hayashida step can feel very different depending on which side you play on.
There's also some examples of objective advantages depending on your side. In T7, Kazuya is a character well-known to have a lot of key moves that can be evaded by sidestepping to the left. His f4, a mid-hitting axe kick, forces the opponent into crouch on block. If you're on P1 side, you can block this and immediately sidestep left after the recovery, but if you're on P2 side, this is straight up impossible. Stepping left would mean tapping down, but you can only do this if your character is standing. Since there's a certain number of frames that it takes for your character to go from crouching to standing, it means even with frame-perfect reactions and inputs, it would be physically impossible to sidestep left fast enough to evade his subsequent attacks.
Strangely enough, my favourite tabletop game ever revels in asymmetrical play. That being Keyforge, the game where every single deck in the world is unique. Often times it's not clear, even to top level players, which decks have an advantage over the other, and there's a lot of on-the-fly decision making and puzzle solving, as you're likely to face situations that you've never seen before. Since you can't build decks, the meta is incredibly loose, and you see all kinds of weird and wonderful decks, (not to mention all the different formats allowing for different avenues of play) and players have to rely on their own experience and knowledge rather than being able to rely on blog posts to tell them what to play. It's even possible to have decks with combos that no other deck in the world has. (One of my favourite decks named The Vain Rogue has something like this.)
Awesome video, loved it! And you mentioned unreal tournament 2004, which is my all-time favorite multiplayer competitive game :D. Another thing to note in Unreal Tournament is that everyone knew that certain characters had smaller hitboxes and lesser visibility. It was the females that were way more slender and harder to see and hit versus the mongoloid, beefed-out dudes!
i definitely felt the Team Fortress 2 koth_viaduct imbalance as soldier. The rollout isn't the same on red because of the map mirroring needing the player to perform left sided rocket jumps, which is something you just don't practice due to the unergonomic hand positioning and conflicting muscle memory.
It's worth mentioning the map used in competitive play is called product (pro+viaduct) which of course fixes the issue, tweaks chokes/sightlines, and uses a green spring aesthetic for visual clarity. might me misremembering tho lol
This was super well made and I love the editing style!!! Keep it up
Got this in my recommended, good video, suprised how few views it has, keep up the good content
lmao so good. Loved the bits. Poor ev just wanted to play some friendly chess
game theory did a video on how the red vs blue color dynamic gives red a statistical advantage in their competitive wins , BUT this is only the case for adrenaline twitch reflexive games/sports , as the reverse is true with strategic and more long term games which shows blue have won more games overall
btw league actually does have height values in the map, the river is lower to the floor than the jg and lane is, so people often miss skillshots from jg to river
The animal crossing voice was really funny
Absolutely beautiful video, amazing analysis
Great video. Can really see the effort.
Absolutely banger video 🔥
Unreal how good this video was
Goated vid, and the pikuniku music? Amazing.
THIS VIDEO IS SO GOOD ARGH!
Im so glad the algorithm brought me here
super well made video
this is a great video if you bother to think about whats being said and what can be learned
Just make it so that all players are team blue on their own screen, regardless of which team they are.
It's probably not possible to do something like this in real life sports, but it would be no big deal for programmers to implement it in their games.
This video was absolutely insightful and hilarious!! Please, make more informative videos like this! I'd watch you talk about paint drying.
I love these overanalytic videos of very niche subjects
the ending was pretty spot-on by the way
This is such a good video, really enjoyed it!
I absolutely have a prefered side or camera angle in most games I play, to the point where I'll sacrifice opportunities to make tangible progress in order to adjust my position or camera to something I'm more comfortable with.
amazing video, loved the ending. You'll get big soon
For chess OTB games: consider also the hand that punches the clock.
by the the flip view models thing does effect where the projectile comes out, there's a pretty good youtube video about this out there
Thank you for making this i loved it!!
I think the title is misleading in the best way possible, the topic itself was much more interesting as a whole imo. Great work!
In pool (8-ball) I’ve always believed that stripes have an advantage over solids because the balls are more easily distinguished from the felt.
Just throwing in another example in a symmetrical game.
Great vid! Really well paced and put together 11:13
How on God's green earth does this have less views that my "every Deez nuts joke in epic Rap battles of history" video
I love the video, it’s so sad it gets little attention. I think maybe the title is part of the reason as this video is about loads of different games, not just melee and people outside of the melee community won’t click on the video.
I think your right. I am not a fan of "smash" type games at all and I really debated watching this for that reason. I figured it would be yet another half-a$$ tip of the iceberg dive into some subtle game mechanic of smash bros.
Actually League apparently does have some kind of Z axis and/or height.
It's absolutely possible to create a perfectly balanced game. First, let's take a cue from shogi and rather than using different colours, we give each piece a pointy end. Then, we take a cue from Diplomacy and have each player write their move in secret, and carry them out at the same time. We'll have to figure out what happens when moves conflict, but that shouldn't be too difficult by itself. Perhaps something like... each move is simulated as though the other hasn't yet happened, and if two pieces land on the same square at the end, they annihilate each other.
Of course, you can still have problems like one player sitting somewhere where the sunlight shining in through the window makes it a little harder to look at the game board and such, but those happen in specific individual games, rather than being an consistent imbalance that flows directly from the game theory.
Also, because chess clocks are actually unbalanced (you have to move a piece and hit the clock with the same hand in tournament play, meaning you might have to move pieces with your left hand one game and your right the other) let's allow both sides of the clock to be independently positioned, so even using a clock won't create an imbalance, since you're allowed to put it on whichever side you prefer.
Now, is this worth all the effort? Probably not. Honestly, lots of games are _more_ fun for the slight imbalance they have, not _less._ Deliberately designed imbalances can be very interesting, requiring you to adapt to the situation in ways that you wouldn't in more balanced games. Think of your classic "swordsmen vs horsemen vs archers" kind of triangle that you find in many tactics games, or even something like Pokémon's type system, not to mention all its stats and learnsets that are different for each Pokémon. In those games, these kinds of fundamental imbalances don't typically get the chance to matter.
Though there are certainly also games where it's problematic. In the end, it's important to decide what's worth dealing with and what's not. You have to draw the line somewhere.
Thank you for writing this. I enjoyed reading through it :)
in league blue waves had more damage and ho than red ones. this was in the game since the beginning until recently.
This is gold you should have more people following you!
awesome video in many ways... great editing, writing, topic, etc :-)
I know one game that is absolutely balanced. It's tetris 1v1. It's real time, so no first player advantage and Your board is always wherever you want it to be. One might argue that the randomized pieces make it unbalanced, but modern tetris uses a 7 bag system (aka every group of 7 pieces in a row include one of each piece) and all pieces + their order are the same across both players so it's not a matter of who gets better pieces, but a matter of who uses the pieces better.
"What if your monitor has a higher refresh rate" xD lols
lmao the artosis salt clip
DA RED WUNZ GO FASTA
this is the proof I needed to justify buying a collectors pro ks pumpkin bombs original. (great vid btw)
Great video
pikuniku ost my beloved♡ excellent choice in bgm
The GOAT of RUclips
commenting for youtube algorithm cause did video good
Lesson:
Every game is asymmetrical and imbalanced because humans are asymmetrical and imbalanced.
I love your channel:)
This is great, I was pleasantly surprised how much this made me laugh
wow ur actually goated
Does this mean it is a winning strategy to fight HBox by running to the right side?
Great video
Balanced game: Poker in front of a mirror.
Omg Kero Kero Bontio on da back
kero kero in the back
SICK VIDEO
I think a better angle for this video would have been "games you thought were symmetrical but aren't" and then go into a little more details for the examples. It felt a bit meandering as is
I'm 1 minute in. My guess is that Hbox is left-eye dominant.
Yo, late to the party but this video is pretty good.
It's not cause red is harder to see or that blue makes you play more strategically. It's because in rocket league red is a heavier color and slows your car down, while blue is lighter and let's you zoom around more. Just the facts.
I always thought it was because blue cars are coming towards you while red ones are moving away
@@zgrb ahhh the classic dop-car effect. I hadn't considered that.
Good verdio
reeeee terran op
Starcraft 2 is symmetrical. because it does not share this flaw as starcraft brood war i would say
I think you should mention Mobile Legends i really wanna know your analysis
Jshlatt music
It's not remotely difficult to find symmetrical games or sports, I don't know why you went through so many that were obviously not symmetrical before landing on rocket league which, very arguably, has at most some asymmetry. This isn't "is there such thing as a balanced game", it's "silly quirks in otherwise somewhat symmetrical games". You get a C- for not addressing the prompt (or, for mislabeling the video)
lmao chaos
Comment for alg
PONG
about LoL and blue having an advantage, it also has an advantage with the team color itself, because being on blue team causes you think more calmly and strategically, while red causes you to think more aggressively, and be braver. though i'm not sure how trustworthy this is
Good ass RUclips video but just have to stop using smash bros as your back bone I think it’s limiting your audience to only people who know who hungry box is or play smash. I think more people woulda watched this video about inequality in video games if just the title and thumb nail were different. Just constructive criticism but I love the shit your putting out just don’t put yourself in a box
Great video. Don't give up.
.bɘɔnɘliƨ ɘd lliw uoY .ʜɔum ooƚ wonʞ uoY