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Sea Wolves - Vendee Globe Report - The Doldrums loom Large! Will Alex hold the lead?! + AUTO PILOTS.
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- Опубликовано: 16 ноя 2020
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The doldrums loom large in the #VendeeGlobe2020, but so far Alex Thomson has been able to hold onto his lead, giving very little to the banc of chasers over his shoulder. With Linked out and Apivia on his heels, Alex must be feeling the heat, but judging by his boat speeds and the wind he is in, he is most surely still holding back, prioritising the integrity of the beast, rather then max speed. And this is not surprising considering the events of yesterday, with Corum dismasting, sending shocwaves through the fleet, as almost all boats Cary the same mast design. The chasing boats seem to pushing hard to catch up with Hugo Boss though. Will they keep their boats in on piece?!
Also, we will talk about a major strategic choice coming up for all of the sailors in the next 24 hours or so + we will do a more in-depth look at auto pilots!
So get you delicious beverage ready and lets get together for some nerding today! #Vendeeglobe2020 #Seawolves
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Florian, honestly, you just keep getting better and better. Your channel is the best for anyone following the Vendee, Thank you , once again.
Sea Wolves (or should I say Sea Wolf), thank you for the splendid discussions of how the lead boat is chosen, types of sails, autopilots, and the many terms you take the time to explain! I admire the race and the more I learn, it seems, the more there is to admire! :)
thanks you :)
This is such a great channel. And much needed - the Vendee channel is almost as hopeless as the Dakar .... and I speak French!...go Florian
Thank you
Awesome channel......great info for those of us in North America. Thank you! Andrew
Seconded. Quiality!
Quality!
So much better than the extremely amateur Vendée channel. Well done.
You are CRUSHING it !! Your program is incredible. Thank goodness you do what you do. All I can get on the race is the official English version coverage. But your show is priceless in what you are producing. I am a Fan dude. Thank you so much for your hard work!!!
Boris, “ I’m naked now but will leave that to your fantasy”. Haha.
Here for the daily @seawolves reporting ! Love the details !
Come on Fabio,we love all the sailors,Win-lose-we sail,but Boris has a pleasant personality .Alex is a day and a half in front,sail the foul weather,reap the rewards.best wishes for all contending.Dirk!
I happy that i've found that channel, you're much better than the official Vendee channel. Greetings from Germany, gogo Boris!
Hierdie is 'n wonderlike kanaal, ons geniet dit geweldig, Groete uit Kaapstad.
The best option is to sail your own boat to the calculations you assume would be the best course for you. I bet Le Cam goes his own way. With this level of sailing, you win from other peoples mistakes or boats that break.
Really enjoying these vids, keep it up! The channel is growing fast as well so I guess I'm not the only one. A little tip: don't forget the ice exclusion zones in your predictions
will do
Thanks for auto pilot insight v good!! Think you said foil info is scarce more would be nice. Could you talk about all aspects of ballast sometime please. So good to appreciate whats going on in front of our eyes!!! Better than any TV progs at present
Very cool!! You're really making this Vendée Globe a much better experience for me! Thank you!
Excellent show! Thank you the very good explanation that helps dummies like me understand some technical aspects of this awesome race. Bravo and thank you 🙏
Hip hip hooray. Congrats, You reached 10K. Keep on with the great work. Thank you again for all that sea of knowledge you are sharing with us.
Thank you for opening up this sport to complete noobs, not even knowing there where different sails, very interesting and insightful
Loving your daily updates ... thanks so much for taking the time to create such a useful presentation each day.
Barely know anything about solo sailing races but watching the technical part of sailing makes my day.
Super strategic talk as usual! In my perception some words regarding reliability and redundancy of autopilots in such kind of race would be worth to be added. Regarding competitors I noticed Pip Hare almost stuck while surrounding boats were performing at 10 to 13 knots (update: back in the race!).
About choosing a course... when I race I will take a course different from the fleet when I can see that my chances of success are high enough... otherwise I stay with the pack and wait for my moment. But frankly it's always more fun to do the opposite to everyone else, and much more satisfying to be right haha. Many of those following Alex will hang on till there is more to be gained by taking a risk. And Alex might try covering Le Cam's moves, he's a wiz tactician. As for autopilots, there are modern jet fighters that need computers to stay in the air... it would be a shame if yachts went that way. My autopilot isn't much use, on some headings it'll keep the boat on course long enough for me to have a pee but I have to be quick...
Thanks for clear explanations, will continue to follow the race and your daily reports.
Tanke care....
So interesting and well presented as always!
Really interesting. Everyday we learn something new from this channel. Thank you!!
Am really enjoying mix of Vendee race comment and technical explanations for dummies...especially when washed down with English Breakfast Tea and Lemon Drizzle cake here in Bristol!
nice!
Really enjoying your channel and insights. It is most appreciated here on the west coast of Canada.
Wow, that was a fascinating explanation of the VG-grade autopilots. I just installed a new Raymarine autopilot in my Newport 30 and it does a decent job for $2000 Canadian. I wasn’t aware that the autopilots for these vessels are infinitely more sophisticated (which explains the insane cost). Very cool. Great video, as always, and looking forward to the next one. Thanks, Lance
I’m with you Lance, I had a MacGregor 26m (Shhh!) a few years ago that I installed a Raymarine st-2000 in (on the rudder quadrant below deck); got it for £192 on eBay, fully restored by Raymarine. I then added a WiFi remote control for it from China for around £10. Not AI but it steered fine to compass, wind and track along with lots of sensitivity adjustments. Certainly makes a huge difference single-handed, although maybe not for the Southern Ocean.
Loving the channel Florian, great work!
You can even upgrade when it comes to off the shelf kit, b&g h5000 has lots of parameters and modes with more inputs and advanced algorithms and the NKE HR systems are what most of the top short handed amateurs use. Madintec is probably the most advanced and what’s uses on these boats if they don’t have their own proprietary autos.
For reference the hr nke computer and processor retails for about $11k usd
My success of the day was to perfectly time my cup lifting to be perfectly synchronized with you
Really nice videos thank you💙💙💙
Auto pilot info was spot on... Thank you ~
Great channel!
Info on weather systems in southern altantic would be really intteresting!
Greetings from Finland!
Very interesting video, explained well and simple for everyone to understand! Grappig ook dat alle Nederlanders een bepaald accent in het engels hebben waardoor we super makkelijk te herkennen zijn!
Another outstanding episode!! Since you are answering questions I'm wondering if the foils and swing keel are "active" or if the are static once deployed. Thanks again for all the work and time you must put in to make this such an excellent channel!!
Coolest videos I've ever seen about sailing! I'm learning so much. Great!
Love your intro. Thank you for doing this. Cheers
This intro is phenomenal, thanks for putting these together. I much prefer your race analysis to the Vendee channel's.
If you are some where of now where may be only your instincts will make you a good sailor, see choppers .. or nice streams wind and floating some to be on the right spot at the right time .. your course maybe will help you achieve does things but out there it's abanned from everything and you do your own math to gather experience... But this channel it's like a hugh gathering of really helpful information not only for sailing at all .. really love to hear more from you thank you for your time to enjoin this experience... See yah
Autopilot is a really interesting topic.
Can you list all the sensors used by the new autopilot? Does the wind direction is also take in consideration? Are there some sensors to predict the next wave (hight, shape)?
Does the autopilot is controlling only the rudder orientation? Or is it also controlling the sail orientation, the keel, the foil orientation, ballast level, any other outputs of the autopilot?
What are the options left to the sailers to control the autopilot? Are there different AI models to select from? Can he change the inputs/outputs of an AI model?
The autopilots only control the rudders, the rest is controlled by the skipper. The inputs would be the heel angle, true and apparent windspeed and angle, boat speed, I assume there is also some collision avoidance software using forward facing sonar, and probably a couple accelerometers measuring the motion of the boat.
Liam has covered the hardware very well. The skipper is either using the AP in 1. Course mode or 2. Wind mode. In 1.Course mode the skipper selects the desired heading 1 to 360 degrees. In 2.Wind mode he can set the wind angle to the boat. The AP is using apparent wind angle upwind and true wind angle downwind. The other input to the autopilots from the skipper is the performance mode depending the wind strength and sea state. That could be in a range of up to 5 or even 10 levels (presets) or that could be done by a big list of parameters.. The only thing the AP controls is the rudder of the boat.
@@MrBlacknass I think there are more options available on the new generation AP than what you described. The simple AP that you described with only two options is available to every sailer. The new AP generation is using some neural networks to models the environment and predicts the boat future bahavior. I wonder what this new generation modelise.
For example: Does the new APs are modelling the Swell waves? The mean wind velocity profile (Beaufort Scale)? Does the AI is using and readjust the Polar Diagrams?
This is the time to gamble - early in race
Nice update and enjoyed the AI section. Thank you!
Love your explanation of autopilots
I love how you integrated the video from 2minute papers. That was a video that showed up in my recommendations completely independently. ... OR... DID IT??? [dramatic fanfare]
Welcome back!(we drink tea in the afternoon here).
We drink RedBull in the afternoon here !!!
Great again ! But the coffe is cold after this video ! ;-))
Thanks for the reports! Great job and for sure not easy to get all Info's! Regarding the Auto Pilot, years now, best tiller sailors over the world are engaged by Auto-Pilot software companies to register the tiller movements in real conditions together with boat movement vs status (Boat-wind speed, wind angle, up-down in degrees of boat etc). this "registered simulation" is added to the boat & environmental condition in order to be calculated by the software and gives so the desired immediate steering results. And as you said too, a registration factor is also considered through the years.
Thanks again!
Perhaps you could cover what information is forthcoming from the shore teams at some point? Weather routing? Is that permitted?
Really enjoying the content, English commentary of the event is hard to find and most is overly basic or stuffy regurgitated team content. Thanks for doing this every day.
Awesome session, especially your presentation on AI and Auto Pilots. Excellent Information.
really enjoying your channel and insights on the race. If you get the chance, I'd be really interested in the types of inputs the that autopilot has access to. My understanding is that it's more than just a compass and a gyroscope. For anything really predictive I would assume that it has access to the fibreoptic stress sensors, but does it also have some sort of lidar "view" or something of the oncoming sea state?
From what I've understood, autopilots are really advanced nowadays. However, Alex Thomson's team has been talking about some sort of "AI" autopilot (Check his video on it). This links to a new feature on the IMOCA 60s which is that for this generation is that they are able to control the attack angle of the foils (i.e. tilt it forwards or backwards to fly higher or lower). Surely all modern ones use an array of gyroscopes, tension sensors and more, but I believe what sets Hugo Boss apart is that the "AI" is able to "predict" the future. My guess is that it can recognise wave patterns, which would allow the boat to keep the bow out of the water for a longer period, allowing for higher average speeds.
Great commentary regarding race routing and risk. It's like a weekend race and you are behind the leader. The question always is , do I take a " flyer" , tack away , hope for a windshift, or a lift , or more pressure to the next mark/ waypoint. That I " hope" gets me there faster .Or do I simply follow the leader and hope my boatspeed is better and I can catch up.
Following becomes a match race , the leader just needs to stay one second or one meter ahead. Sailing racing is like chess , also it's the person who makes the least amount of mistakes that wins.
Thanks wolf man 👍🥃
Great thanks. Love auto pilots lol. Very interesting how these top technology ones work!
Great channel
You seem to suggest that the ap is primarily working to keep a compass heading but surely they would primarily want to maintain apparent wind angle? Great show btw.
yes, they can also set a wind angle. They will use both options as suited
.. and they can be set to manage to other dimensions as well.. they can prioritise heel angle, for instance keeping the boat sailing at whatever apparent wind direction and compass course delivers a chosen heel angle.
Upwind the AP is using Apparent Wind Angle and downwind True Wind Angle.. You could never use AWA downwind since at that point of sail the Boat Speed changes a lot the AWA and the autopilot would drive the boat like he was drunk. Also in a sailing regatta the AP is set to wind angle and the compass (or better the "gyro" is measuring turn rate) at that mode plays a secondary role like controlling the actual movement of the boat with the given rudder command. So on that mode, If the wind direction changes, you could turn up going in any random direction the wind takes you to. So the skipper sets the wind angle trims the sails and then the autopilot makes sure he keeps the sails full at the right angle.
Compass mode is also used but not when the skipper is sleeping. In compass mode the boat keeps a certain heading and the skipper has to be trimming the sails the whole time.
This all makes sense. What surprises me is that the ap can work better than a human skipper even though it cannot anticipate (wind puffs, waves etc.) like a human can. It can only react presumably, maybe the next generation will have sensors that can detect wind puffs, headers, waves etc. in advance.
Really enjoyed your insight into autopilot and AI - the clip with the robots were great !
YES........I THINK THE SAME.... THIS GUY IS A TEACHER....
Is it to soon to be calling him Sir Alex Thomson? 😉
Yes
We'll know in a couple of months !!!
Great channel....thank you
How many corections per second can these autopilots make? I guess that at 30 knots, taking the waves into consideration, they have to do quite a number of corrections...
By the way, I hope the Doldrums will mix it up a little to the favour of Boris! :-)
Great explanation, Thank you
If you do a deeper dive into foils, I’m curious about 2 aspects; why don’t Vende Globe boats rise fully out of the water like the new America’s Cup racers? Also, with foils supporting the boat, can water ballast be eliminated or reduced in some conditions?
The americas Cup boats have foils on the rudders as well as the main foils. The rudder foils lift the stern out of the water, allowing the boat to fly out of the water.
The IMOCA 60 rules don't allow the rudders to have foils on them at the moment. However, the foils used by the IMOCA's help with the righting moment. Hope this helps.
These foils provide "righting moment" which means that it is applying force to tilt the boat more upright.
This is important for several reasons, first the hull shape, once you start heeling X amount the boat will start rounding up and losing speed. Second when a boat heels enough wind starts "dumping off" the top of the sail because the angle of attack is not quite as good. This means that that foils ensure that the sails catch more wind
Impressive
The T foils on the rudder will be allowed in the next Vendee. Indeed some boats have done away withe the water ballast. IDK if thy still have centreline water ballast for upwind. Also they found out that when foiling, not extending the canting fully is faster
Maybe in time but america's cup has no autopilot , it's human capital btrollef all the time through the relatively short rsce. Also while the single skipper sleeps, If say the software for an autopilot mode makes a mistake at full foil..it could be over. It's a conpromise
Cup of coffee, cup of tea, cup of cola....glass of wine!
I’m curious how you got the fleet to show up in PredictWind.
Very enlightning. Thanks. Question : why is l'Occitane so far away behind ? Is the skow like design of the bow not paying off ? What is your opinion on that issue ?
L'occitane broke a hook, main sail felt down, Tripon had to wait low wind and a quiet sea to climb up the mast to fix it, went back in the race but was now stuck without wind, as a result he is 1000 miles behind thomson, out of 23 000 left, he knows he wont catch up so the pressure is off.
L'occitane is super fast between 15 and 25 knots of wind and Tripon is very happy with it.
I have no doubt He will catch up every non foil boat and some foil, that is, if no major technical problem.
Just watch l 'occitane climb up the ranking when the wind come back.
@@BStrapper Thank you for the feedback. It is of course better to break nothing. But he is maybe better off that it happened now than in the south seas. I'm eager to see what happens there with more or less constant broad reaching. conditions.
So when you talk AI what sensors are installed on the boats? What is the granularity of the decision making? ie 60 times a sec. Can it identify rogue waves and take swift action to prevent disaster? Doe it use historical weather info? How many weather prediction models are used? Can it predict optimal coffee preparation time? Thanks.
Considering the amount of money Alex Thomson has spent developing the boat and autopilot, I don't think he'll want to share what aspects/inputs are important (his boat has something like 350 sensors onboard)
@@jonatanrosander3944 so maybe the AI does the race without the human in the future? Certainly the lines between alone and being helped by technology are already being skewed and the race organizers will need to consider it carefully in the future so as not to allow this EPIC race to become irrelevant.
@@walterhiegel3020 100% agree with you. It's the person sailing that's the interesting part, and the fact that there's an element of risk and judgement. Will for sure be an important part of the new rules being produced, to maintain the audience's connection to the skippers.
Not only does the autopilots steer compass courses but MORE importantly they will steer to an apparent wind angle which allows for the same trim over time and will deviate for wind angle and pressure differences. Also one of the videos had a skipper setting his autopilot to a target speed and then the boat will head up for speed or drive down to depower.!!!! A QUESTION I HAVE BEEN ASKING BUT CANT GET AN ANSWER FOR?: Do the skippers carry a killswitch fob in their gear ? So if they go overboard at a certain distance from the boat the autopilot will turn the boat dead upwind???
While I can completely appreciate, respect, etc, foiling boats, enclosed highly technical cockpits (such as Alex, for whom I am rooting), and such....I feel that there's a bit more joy and beauty to be had with the more traditional boats---windows, more open cockpits, white/lighter interior colors, etc. Just seems **comparatively speaking** (so don't attack for things that I'm not saying or feeling) more than a bit sad to sacrifice so much on the altar of pure engineering and technology. Not a criticism, I fully get different purposes/means "thing" at stake, the old "apples and oranges" notion...but....just not for me, I guess, to go quite so far minimizing or circumventing elements that yield beauty and grace. Anyhow, cheers, and safe adventures to all! Thanks for creating/posting....
Loving all this, anyone know what is going on with L’Occitane, seems to be taking a weird course like something is wrong but I haven’t seen anything. Also would be great to see something about the rigging, winches and coffee grinder!
Interesting talk about auto pilots. I suspect much of the expense of them must be in the gyros. A good gyro integrated to high end GPS systems can be very very expensive.
Actually the most expensive part on these pilots is the man hours spent to setup and make them work.. So let's say one expensive part would be the computer with the software they have developed (some don't use commercial AP computers) and then probably the most expensive is the sea trials to setup the system properly and in many different weather conditions.. The gyros have become really cheap and can cost up to 1000 or 2000 euro. Imagine that youR phone has a gyro sensor INSIDE now.. With 700 euro now you can have a precise electronic compass with 9 axis, sensing the whole motion of the boat. Anyway these autopilots are not stand alone, they are integrated into the whole instrumentation of the boat. And they take info from many sensors on board.
can you tell us what happened to the Charal? all we know is something broke and now hes back in the race... also what is Shiroshai working on? and what happened Nico Trusseau - his mast broke in half? Its just not clear, if you dont understand french, what happened to these boats... would love to be able to know what happened, thanks! We like your show and appreciate the teaching parts! thank you!
Louis Burton, who jumped the gun at the start, is up to 6th place (according to the tracker, at this time). What would be an appropriate strategy for him to serve his 5-hour-stationary penalty? I am guessing that if he gets stuck in "doldrums", then that would be an appropriate time to become "stationary" for five hours. Would this strategy conflict with the rules?
He's already served the penalty, seems a bit stupid to take such high risks to gain just 100m. You're absolutely right regarding strategy, he served it after passing into an area with lower wind (day 2 or 3 I believe), as to not lose too much distance on his competitors. He wasn't allowed to wait for as long as he wanted with the stopover, from what I've understood.
he already did. He had to do it before crossing latitude 38° 40' N
Just one question for you : you are obviously located in Amsterdam (Dutch I guess ?) but your english looks perfect to me. How come ????
they learn english from a very early age, also a lot of english language programs on tv, that are subtitled rather than dubbed into dutch. they also listen to a huge proportion of english language music over dutch language music
I speak English for my work a lot and have done so for many years.
@@SeawolvesTV and your English is perfect. Please carry on.
Thank you
Excellent!
Hello again, I follow you on Sailing East of the Sun. I just discovered you have this wonderful sailing channel. Great job, very informative. I also have your Gin Fizz. My Gin Fizz needs new chain/deck plates. You are such an expert I would appreciate your opinion on what to buy and where to buy new chain/deck plates as Jeanneau no longer supports my sailboat because it was built in 1976. Thank you, Brett
Isn't the vessel flirting with a capsize at 24:16-17? Video playing during your discussion about autopilot technology but you noting that some situations require human intervention. Excellent content. Well done!
Do autopilot now detect object in the front, and ajust?
last two editions a lot of boat abondoned because they hit some object, this edition only charal (and someone else but without stoping damage)
Do any or the boats have lidar sensors to 3D map the sea state and predict pitch, yaw and roll as inputs to the neural networks?
I just thought the same thing. I bet the AP have a bunch of sensors on the boat like the mentioned gyros and wind instrument but also tension/load sensors that they train the NN on, but would be cool if they map the waves in front of the boat too. I don't know, but based on the available mapping tech I guess not. Not yet
Btw I don't think lidar is the way to go here, probably stereo cameras and array radars are better bet, each with its own downsides
@@valterhesselmark5215 I guess the point cloud data files would be heavy on the processing. Not sure on relative processing requirements of stereoscopic video files to 3D models in real time vs lidar point cloud
@@simonwgiles The processing part will not be bad actually, since the boats only need a general shape of the waves to select the best track the resolution can be pretty low which means low processing. Stereo cameras creates something called a disparity map that cannot be too low resolution though, but there is several readymade and integrated solutions for that. Check intel realsense cameras if you are interested. Wont work at night though.
Apart from that another problem is to keep the lenses clean enough in salt spray. Also one interesting problem is to predict how the waves move in the time span between being mapped and until the boat arrives at that location. Some neural network guy should make a master thesis of this!
Any idea why there is no AIS or MMSI data on the fleet members? I.e. where can I get it from?
this has become my favourite channel! Cheers!!
thank you :)
anyone find info on the megatron company/guy making the custom autopilots?
No pants on the ocean why not❤️
Great explanation about AI / autopilots; one question : I hope they have a MOB (man out board) for stop the boat and leave it upwind be able to get back to the ship and get them in to safety?!?😱😰😅👍 Does it exist this “rescue” mode?
Thank you for this video.
Do these very cool autopilots not eat a ton of power? Can they be fed just by solar?
depends on how well-balanced the sails are. If the skipper balances well, the auto pilot has much less work/need for power. But yes they do need a fir bit of amps.
A lot of the boats have hydro generators which generate a ton of power, then use solar just to top up the batteries
big thank you again,,,,,, AI,, OMG !!!
When on deck they are secured by a life line, BUT if they do get swept off, how do they get back on if the boat is sailing at 20knots plus??
no chance to get back on
Nice intro!
Jean Le Cam he is in a none foiling boat is this correct.
Why didn't you mention working the windward close to Africa route? Too dangerous?
Great channel but the coffee looks a bit weak!
Corum is a beautiful boat. It’s a shame it retired so early
Why don't boats take a more direct/close route around Africa?
3.2.1 ah. Good morning .My VG site is al most the same with yours but just a little different from yours. Why?
This theory about retaining lead in doldrum holds true only id doldrum lasts the same for each competitor. In other words: the doldrum should not disappear and each competitor spends the same time in doldrum traversing it. But if a doldrum ceases then a competitor who entered it last benefits the most and the one who entered it first looses the most. Similar to pace car in F1 which nullifies any advantage gained.
I'm guessing Kojiro Shiraishi doesn't have one of those fancy AI autopilots, as his boat accidentally gybed twice, resulting in a broken mainsail...
If anyone is interested in the AI video, the chanbel is called "two-minute papers".
So whom gets to anoint Sir Alex .... Lizzy, or the bastard son Harry !
You forgot to mention A/P have to have POWER , No Power , Interrupted power , Low power ?
No smart autopilot = no sleep -> no sleep means - less efficiency - less speed - wrong tactical decisions .... A smart autopilot relay on a lot of different sensors
And good software.
linked out not linked in
So what are those "doldrums"? 😆
I forgot about that didn't I :)
short answer: no wind. And then not no wind as in a high pressure system, but more like no wind as in the eye of a hurricane. Around the equator is the hottest place, humid hot air rises. On land that's rainforests, on sea that's doldrums. A permanent low pressure system circling the planet. Weather circulate in reverse on the northern hemisphere compared to the southern. But around the equator they just don't know which way to go. Result; a narrow insatiable belt of no wind at all. It is quite dangerous however: in it compact and violent squalls, the 'no wind' part make it impossible to run away from those.