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Sea Wolves - Vendee Globe 2020 IMOCA technology overview / deep dive - The secrets to the speed!
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2024
- Thank you all very much for watching, liking and sharing my previous Vendee pre-fun overview and commentary. In this new episode I decided it might be fun to dive into some of the core aspects of the 2020 "super" IMOCA class boats participating in the Vendee Globe 2020 race. What are the key feautures which set these modern sea space ships apart from the previous generation boats? And what are some of the ideas and principles behind these unique solutions and technology?
I hope you will enjoy my insights and opinions (I'm not claiming to be an expert, just an interested sailor and fellow tech nerd, who likes to explore these fascinating machines. If you have any feedback or ideas for future reports, please let me know in the comments below.
insta @FlorianRooz
This is all new for me and I appreciate the effort you made to explain these developments. I found it fascinating and it deepened my interest in the vendee race and sailing.
Glad to hear that :)
Exceptionally great overview of what is going on with the "secret" details of these boats, thanks so much for putting this video together!! Looking forward to your next episode!!!
I enjoy your relaxed and informative approach to the Race. I look forward to your reports with my coffee in snowy Canada. Keep up your personal approach.
The C foils on Hugo Boss were designed to give the same lift whatever the angle of heel, so the lift they produce remains constant. Also, the inboard of the C foil can be pushed forward/angled back, and pivots at the hull, this enables them to adjust the angle of the foil and control the lift it's providing.
Finally, the keel pivot on HB runs at an angle, not perpendicular to the blade. By adjusting the keel angle it adjusts the amount of lift the keel provides. This is why when they are foiling the keel is almost vertical, whereas on non-foiling boats the bulb is canted to windward to increase the righting moment. :0)
In your opinion how much faster would you say the HB is from the rest of the field? Thomson is a beast but that boat seems to be an absolute weapon.
The mast stays make them look like shrimp trawlers but I love these design innovations. Thanks for the great explanations of these go fast sailboats.
Thank you so much for doing this. I am a yacht surveyor and you have answered all the questions i have been asking. I do wonder when these high tech machines will stop carrying lead on the bottom of the keels and design a cleaver bulb with the batteries encapsulated rather than in the hull. (Resistance i know just over come it ) i really enjoyed watching and very much looking forward to more. Also at these high speeds more in the way of generating power and soon the wasted weight of the engine will be redundant with small electric motor. Imagine where we will be in four years time ! I hope Alex Thompson is able to keep a good look out at the start !
Good comment. I have been wondering when they would get rid of the Diesel engine and go all electric. Batteries in the keel would be great.
It would be interesting if they could have electric motors that they are allowed to use if the wind drops as long as they have generated the electricity used to power the boat.
Thanks for this video - indeed it's hard to find in depth info on the IMOCA boats as the teams seem pretty secretive (similar to F1). Also, love the fact that you are deep diving into the Vendee and offshore sailing/racing - And in English language! Much of the content I have found to digest in the past 3 Vendee campaigns has been French or roughly translated! Although I will say the Vendee administration has made great strides in making this race visible and accessible on a global scale (their mobile app is really a must-have for fans). Armed with more knowledge, I am looking forward to following the 2020 edition!
Loved the vid man, really enjoyed the format! Would he awesome if you did something every week counting what is happening in the race, maybe explaining whats ahead for them, like they might encounter storms and stuff like that, and yes I know you just said that, I’m listening to you’re outro right now 😂
Fantastic nerdy video, cant wait for the next one. Some great insights there.
What a joy to hear cross-over engineering expertise applied creatively to sailing. Hope you find a way to monetise that talent. Thanks. 👏👏👏
I did my last Sydney to Hobart 18 years ago, these are like nothing I've ever seen before!
Great overview, I think you found a very interesting niche. Looking forward to your next video!
when discussing the bow shaped and the rounded bows I was waiting to hear the word “buoyancy”. the wider rounder bow will have more reserve buoyancy that a older style knife edge bow shape. The extra buoyancy is to prevent or reduce the likelihood of pitch polling at higher speed or while running in a large swell or waves. when referring to the mini transit boats they are limited to an overall length of 6.5 meters I believe. When classes, like the minis, restrict the overall length the designers increase beam to compensate - for greater stability, added structural support of the rig & greater span/leverage for the foils. Like everything it’s all a series of trade offs and finding, or guessing, the optimum solution.
Hugo the Sailing Frenchman explains it quite well in one of their videos: rounded bow in Mini Transat 6.50 reduces wet surface, so reduces water drag. With the rounded and wider bow, the total waterline length is reduced, and the total wet surface reduced too. It helps planing too, of course. This shortening of waterline length would be inconvenient for a non planing boat, but convenient for a boat basically designed for planing. This design has a tradeof when sailing upwind, where pointy bows and longer waterline is better, but it is a case of taking a compromise towards what benefits more, as these boats (and Imocas too) will be sailing much more miles on downwing true wind angles than upwind, so sacrificing a bit in upwind to gain more on downwind is acceptable.
On a very small ship as a 6.50 is, there is also the addeed benefit of more internal space for sails and stuff, and better options for moving the stuff to distribute the weight optimally and have that little more space
Super good video! Really like the monkey with semi-automatic handgun, in the background, guarding the money :)
As a retired engineer AND a former charter skipper I really appreciate to see, that there is tremendous technical progress in the design of the new SAILING ROCKETS.
For engineers its always an adventure , to leave common ground and gain a " NEW DIMENSION " I wish all the best for those men and women, who are under the last heros of our times
This should wake up a litttle bit our SNOW FLAKE GENERATION . USE YOUR FRIDAYS to go to school and study hard , so that you can "form" your future life . And dont let OTHERS tell you, that all what your grandparents and parents did was wrong . Dont let them fill your hearts and minds with pseudo religions like climate change and social justice and BLM .
LIFE is producing winners and loosers , so accept the RACE OF LIFE .
I really like this stuff and can't wait for the Vendee start. Some details you should know, 11th hour racing is the 2016 Hugo Boss with a refit. And modern lifting keels don't just swing but also provide lift.
The rudder and keel are also types of foils. As are the sails and even the mast. It's the same physics just in a different direction, lift and drag.
Thank you so much for putting all these infosa nd comments together. Also thank you for your impeccable english always appreciated by non english native speakers
I can’t wait for your next video,man!?!!! 👍 Good job 👌 Vendee Globe is coming!!!😜💪💪💪 20,30,40 knots /24 hours NON STOP 😱😱😱
Next video coming very soon :)!
talking about aerodynamics at 8.07, don't forget you have to plan for apparent wind, which could be way faster than speed over the ground would suggest....
tricky part is apparent wind angle. If you turn your boat 45 deg that Cd suddenly looks very bad. Probably why instead of airfoils everywhere everything has large radii.
only discovering this now. Love it! Thank you for all the insights!
Your videos are amazing. You have answered for many of my questions. I am looking forward for next videos
Great video. Keep up the good work. It would be interesting to see a spreadsheet of all the boats that could be updated as the race progresses. The spreadsheet could list the features of each boat, foiling, movable keel, weight, boat age....and the budget of the teams.
The "double backstays" are running backstays. They are tensioned by winches depending on which tack the boat is on. My understanding is that the deck spreader configuration allows for a rotating mast, providing some aerodynamic efficiency to the main.
In my limited experience, gybing with runners requires almost split second timing & close coordination between the guy on the backstays, the main trimmer & the helmsman. Sounds risky on a single handed boat but I guess these are not normal sailors.
@@anthonyefarr With the swept back spreaders and stays, you can do manouvers with both running backstays loose. Once on the new tack you trim your new backstay on.
There are boats like Stark that have some what traditional rigging that allowes mast rotation as well.
@@anthonyefarr It can be done. It is just not as efficient, as it would be when working with a crew, because it will be done in alternating steps. In past races, tacks can take minutes to complete, as compared to seconds on a crewed boat. In past Vendée, a skipper can often be on a tack for a day or more. This makes the the time to do a tack or gybe less of an issue.
Depending on the weather, a sail change can take 30 to 40 minutes to do.
@RichardMadden, you are correct. They also, contribute about 10 to 15 percent of to mainsail’s power. At least this was the case, in the last Vendée, where they first appeared on IMOCA 60.
Are they moving the center of pressure (in the sail), thus able to rise or lower the bow then flying?
Hi !
thank you for the video, very very nice !
I think that the pilots "inside" the boats are very important because the human stress. This kind of races are so stressing , and long. And if you give a better condition to the racers it is a good solution to avoid human fatigue mistakes , and the racers can stay more time keeping the best performance possible . I think that next step is the "noise" insulation, because this boats are very very noisy during the race !
Once more thanks for the video !
Love the technical analysis on these platforms... Keep it coming!
This second video is also very enjoyable. Good job.
thank you for a interesting video!
i think the angles in the bow are also for saving weight(cutting the corners) of the hull.
and another reasons for hugo boss` enclosed cockpit is for the water to run straight over, hundreds of liters in there adds a lot of weight
good stuff mate and nicely explained! thanks!
I think this race will be very interesting indeed. Perhaps a key element of the foil size/shape is the % of displacement that is carried in the foil. Previously the foils carried 30 to 40% and hence the hull still remained in the water to some extent. With the new larger foils the entire hull is "flying" and only the keel is still in the water. The risk of this is how robust the design will be in the long run. I have flown 100% foiling trimaran completely clear of the water (and pitchpoled on return). Also, I wonder what provisions are designed in for surviving collision with objects. As a composites professional I know that erosion on the leading edge of wind turbine blades (foil) is a serious performance issue. I look forward to more discussion if you care to set up discussion space on design issues.
That could be a very cool convo indeed. I would be up for it! Perhaps get in touch via my insta @Florianrooz
@Jellyfish I'm all for strapping rockets too the foiling boats in the next edition ;) That would be something to see :D
Just nitpicking but IMOCAs don't have lifting foils on the rudders, right? So, most of hull is flying but the transom is planted. They fly on the foil and the aft planing surfaces, right?
@@AntiVaganza absolutely right - as you see in my in my initial post it is a "percentage!" of displacement in IMOCA boats compared to 100% foilers like americas cup monohulls to the first generation 30% foilers of the last race. Frankly I see the advantage of being able to see the high speeds of this generation of IMOCA foilers but we will see in this true proving ground of racing how robust this concept is in offshore racing.... My experience in foiling sailboats was with hydrosail inc in the 90's with 100% foiling trimarans and in a wave environment there were problems with staying foiling or airborne - we had trim tabs on the foils and the foil is supporting the boat and the waves are variable. We flew the boat right out of the water at 28 knots in ocean conditions.
Many thanks Florian - superb video and explanation of the newer innovations on the IMOCAs.
Excellent video. More, please ! Can we have more nerdy tech please ! Please do a foils video !
Great video and discussion. Thanks Seawolves - excellent -take a bow..
The forward part of the deck that is angled on both side is also so that during nose dives, water is evacuated more optimally. With a flat deck, water has to be carried away for a while before it flows out.
with this spreaders you can rotate your mast in order to create a proper wing profile - like on catamarans
Thanks very much for the video. Good conversation. Cheers.
Regarding the Hugo Boss cockpit... not sure if you subscribe to the Alex Thomson Racing RUclips channel. But I think the rationale was multiple, i.e. ergonomically the middle of the boat is the most stable part, i.e. spreaders, mast, swing keel and fins all meet there. You see alot of side to side motion (fin to keel/keel to fin) but not alot of bow to stern/stern to bow motion. So it's very stable particularly the jarring motion you encounter at 25-35kts at the cockpit or stern. Plus then to your points about all the winches are mounted at the strongest part of the boat ... you don't need the extra mass on the stern with a counter weight (or the weight accounted for in the bow). The short lines, lack of blocks all lead to weight reduction... and every little pound/kilo matters. There's editions about the boat design as well as when they lost their keel. The other bit about enclosed is that they stay indoors 80-90% of the time... so why not go 100%?? Foil design... I can't speak to the completely curved Hugo Boss foils but those down and then to the side and then a wing tip... think of a normal airplane wing with winglets to control wingtip vortices. Note F1 has the same thing to contain the vortices. The down part is that the boat is above the water but the wing needs to be below.
excellent video! Exactly where I was looking for! Thanks
Tks for your intresting aspect
Really nicely done. It would be interesting to see what the boats do on a semi-flat sea.
Good video. I learnt a lot. Perhaps in the next video you could talk about the advantages/disadvantages of Alex’s rotating mast.
One of the advantages would be to enable better profile of the attacking edge of the sail. It's been on for over 40 years on dinghy sailing ( Tasar, HC16), but fairly new on this type of boats
Great video, loking forward to learn more nerdy stuff 👍
Interesting video! I think you missed the point with the spreader poles is the wing mast that rotates to increase sail area and support the wind coming forward due to the speed they sail at. On boss, one of the other pro’s of the cabin position is to have the weight lower compared to the traditional cockpit. I think the queries on the foil controls might be governed by the IMOCA rule book. The rudder popping up is not just for the drag, but also jumps up to prevent damage when hitting objects in the water, containers etc.
thank you. Yes I am aware of the rotating wingmast, however I can only cover so much in 1 video, so i saved that for the next techno video in a few days , along with several other very cool feautures I want to die into more :)
@@SeawolvesTV looking forward to it
Wow! Thank you! IMOCA 60! I want one!!
Amazing video, this helps a lot while following current Vendée Globe, thanks for that!
I think that you could draw a few conclulsions from the first quarter of the rest already, i.e. for this type of solo racing at least, actual high speed of foiled boats is around 25nm.
It seems that the flatish foils (I'm talking Apivia and LinkedOut) have been designed and angled so that the flat part is almost horizontal when they are at their optimal speed and angle. They also seem rather fixed, since this shape doesnt make it easy or even feasible to pull them out like the C-shaped ones on Hugo Boss (or Arkea Paprec). Furthermore, there is no hole on top of the boat where the other end of the foils could pop out!
When they were in rough conditions in the tropical winds, they probably suffered extra drag from those foils being partly in the water but inefficient when the boat is flat on the sea with small sails; HB was probably a bit faster when pulling foils out, and Jean Le Cam could actually match their speed in these poor conditions.
Also for now (and even before the huge structural problems Alex Thompson got), it seems that Apivia and LinkedOut, and also possibly Charal or Corum L'Epargne had they not met early technical issues, are just as fast as Hugo Boss in favourable wind and sea conditions.
It's for sure such an exciting race!
Really enjoyed this video. Thanks
Nice, nice, nice!!! Thanks for all your info; am especially interested in the keel developments you mention in your video. Looking forward to the sequel.
Thank you so much for this great video. I learned a lot!
Following the vendee-race is now even more interesting than before.
Looking forward to your next video!
Wow- super interesting! Some of these jumps in technology make their way down to us regular folks.
I really like this tech approach 😃 good work !!!
The big advancement in this generation that made it possible for the massive foils we see today was a rule change that added a degree of freedom to the foils. Previously the foils were only allowed to go in and out, meaning that they could not control the amount of lift they produced. this meant that if you put massive foils on the boat it would be uncontrollable. now they can can change the angle of attack of the foil (Pitch) they can dial back the amount of lift when things get crazy as to save the boat in big waves.
also the low booms are just a way to try and get the center of lift on the sails lower. most of the time they are sailing down wind with the boom quite far out, so not near the coach roof.
Top notch video mate.
Angled foredeck also saves material and thus weight, sheds water more quickly and produces less drag during a nose dive. Other advantage of moving cockpit and all that weight to centre of the boat is to reduce pitching moments. Can’t wait for the start!
better visibility from an enclosed cockpit would be another factor
When heeling over, the rounded deck probably also allows cleaner air flow to the sails.
Fascinating, I moved from Admirals cup to air racing , I can see that racing yachts have caught up with and overtaken aviation isn't it an exciting world we live in.
Thanks for these info and ideas. I wonder about the keel. I gues it is somehow tilting in opposite direction then the mast itself to balance the pressure got from the wind.
thank you. truly enjoy your productions and always look forward to your next.
Excellent video - thank you - this information is so hard to find....
That was awesome you are one dialed I guy on this stuff
Thank you, well done video and well spoken. Being able to do everything inside is fantastic
In windsurfing - if you close the gap meaning you put your boom and sail on the deck - you go faster...just like in the America's cup. Go look at world windsurfing records and their technique - of closing the gap...
And I think Thomas Coville did the same on his new Sodebo Ultim, by putting the cockpit in front of the mast, allowing him to lower the boom
About trimning the foil. Alex Thompson had Said that Hugo boss is abel to Angel it with a few degreas
Nice video and good explanations. But 11th hour is not a new boat but the old Hugo Boss from the last VG
I never said 11th hour was new, I said I included them as an example because they provided good drone footage 😁👍
the reason for the leaning mast can be to have more control over the balancing of the hull,for rising it more evenly.
in RC sailboat we use a lot the leaning adjust of the mast,but for other reasons,mainly you leaning it forward if you need more rudder authority.
also we have some space on the joining point between hull and mast,we can set it 2-3 cm bow-stern.we can also set something like a bow,bending it forward to modify the sails shape.
Nice video! Regarding shape of bow and deck. I would say it's mostly a combination of weight distribution and hydrodynamics, the wide bottom when hitting the wave and the narrow top for saving weight. When looking at the aerodynamics, the whole package should be included, ie both sail and hull.
the shape of the deck to reduce wheight and lower the center of gravity was first seen on Gabart's imoca in 2012's Vendee globe, which is now Banque Populaire
Loved geeking out on these boats
Loving all your vendee globe analisis! Thanks
Great video, lots of food for thought. It would be great for one on the ac75s too ;) these boats, as they heel over rotate along a diagonal between the back of boat and foil instead of boat centreline . This would cause weird motions as they rise out of the water and would be the cause of the odd motions. Its unlikely to be balancing between the keel and foil 👍
Very interesting video, Thank you very much!
Very insightful information - many thanks. The design of the foils and the bow seem to be critical points of the newest designs. More details would be really interesting.
The merging of the boom and the deck (and the new skegs) are obviously critical, but I would like to understand the WHY of this design. Maybe an aeronautical engineer could explain the reasons behind this setup.
This was an excellent video, and very enlightening. I would be interested to hear in your future videos about how they have preserved safety - of course no open water sailing series is entirely safe, but the risks involved here are very great.
Great technical video! Keep em coming!
Very very interesting video, thanks a lot.
Excellent video. Thank you.would like some specifics re speed/wind if possible
Next video will be full analysis of the entire race course in terms of wind and other environmental challenges.
The new boats have round bow to avoid hard hits on the waves when flying.
Don't they hit harder? I thought the round bow was to try and keep the boats from nose diving when they hit waves. it much faster to bounce across the top of the waves rather than try and cut your way through them.
@@levio1463 it seems that the bouncing is softer than the cutting through.
The circular shape and the added volume prevents the bow going underwater where a pointy bow dives straight in.
Fascinating infos - many thanks! You deserve a much wider audience.
Thanks you :)
I'm confused, isn't 11th hour boat the old Hugo Boss from the last Vendée edition? Not really one of the newest boat. They are building a new one, but it isn´t out yet I think.
You're right - I think 11th hour were using the previous Hugo Boss (distinct by the honeycomb pattern on its deck and all-black finish) for testing and data collection before commissioning a completely new IMOCA 60 build adapted for The Ocean Race format, in particular for sailing it with many more hands than usual. Great video of it here:
ruclips.net/video/KoPTY9kdjGQ/видео.html
Thank you for a very interesting video, looking forward to the next
Also foil design... curved vs. straight... Think of it more as a combination of foil, keel, rudder and then the action of the hull, mast, sails when considering heeling, etc. I think if you watch F1 you see the action of the front wing, barge boards, rear wing and under tray... it's really the combination of all that's intended to be apart of the overall system. They all look different but there's more or less known concepts of the individual bits... and then you combine it all together. F1 like Mercedes have a powerful engine so they can run more downforce. But other teams don't have that big of an engine (HP) so they need to be more efficient (less wing but still want the same downforce...). So you really need to understand the whole system goals to understand the individual bits... if that makes sense.
Outriggers are also needed since mast and sails are now orientable.
Mast needs to be free of rotating.
Would love a video like this but on the new America's cup boats. Great video!
VDLP already had designed the mast way back at the 100ft fast monster Comanche as computer models proved it would be faster to increase front sails!
Great video!
Very interesting. Thank you!
I like the video, and the effort it took to compile this whole list.
I'd like to point out some opportunities for improvement. When talking about the bow, stay consistent with your units. As I understand it the goal is to increase volume (= increasing buoyancy) while minimizing hull-area (= weight) and optimizing geometry for stability (= no sharp corners) , this results in these rounded bows and chamfered hull-deck joints.
Please forgive my condescending tone I don't want to be rude I'm just struggling to express myself in English.
There are any rotating masts on Imocas? That could be another reason to have separate spreaders, not integral to the mast. EDIT: yes, they have rotating masts.
There are rotating masts yes
Just come across your station/channel. Really interesting. Thanks. Is there any ways to see or hear the boats and if they do any DX ing with amateur radio. I am a ham radio operator near the beginner end of it and it would be great to hear from them.
I am sure others have pointed this out but I think you are a little off on the bow thoughts. A sphere is the best for least wetted surface in relation to volume. But a narrower, more traditional bow would nevertheless have a loss less weight in it. The reason for the new bows are to push volume forward, I think. It's basically a means to optimized the boat for reaching and downwind conditions. It only works since there's so little upwind sailing in the Vendee and Minitransat.
Like the boom sealing on deck, the AC 75's also have a skeg to stop wind going underneath the boat before it foils....
I'm new to this so I know nothing but I thought the purpose of the skeg on AC75's (those that have then anyway, go Team NZ) was to keep the higher pressure (faster) and lower pressure (slower) air which the aero shape of the sail's shape generates seperate further down, as far down as the waterline while it rises up onto its foils.. Effectively (from an airflow point of view) lowering the boom to the waterline (while the skeg is in the water) reducing turbulence / drag. But as I honestly said I know nothing so if I'm wrong please correct me, very happy to learn.
goed bezig. super tof filmpje. groetjes uit Belgie
fantastic well informed review. Thank you veey much
Next video is gong LIVE tomorrow morning :). Analyzing the full round the world course in terms of weather and other environmental challenges. Premiere at 10:00 tomorrow morning.
ruclips.net/video/yueViSVyx8w/видео.html
The bow design is purely about speed and interaction with the waves. The Scow Bow on L"Occitane will be quick to plain but more so in flat water but not so advantageous in bigger waves. The deck shape of Alex's boat Hugo Boss is to disperse water quickly because large volumes of water on the boat adds weight. You used 11th hour racing as a reference a lot but this boat is the "Older Generation Hugo Boss Boat" so it has been superseded by the newer boats. The newer boats come from 3 different designers. We also have many of the older generation boats competing being retro-fitted with foils.
Yes, I do think they updated the foils on 11th hour though, I'm not 100% sure on that.
11th hour have put their own foil design on the boat, last I knew they only had one on the boat, they’re currently sailing across the Atlantic back to France. Such a shame it’s not racing in this addition as it would have won by a big distance if Alex haven’t broken a foil on day 13 in 2016.
@@gethinsalter599 I think Alex actually was afraid that his older boat would be faster than his newer, so he only agreed to sell it to someone who wasn't gonna participate in the VG. 11th hour racing is focusing on the Ocean Race in 2022
Regarding the scow bow It's been quite successful in the mini transats . Additionally to make it plane easier, it also increases the righting moment. In more modern designs, you might not need that extra righting moment if the foils can do the job
@@jonas2674 yes I think that was the idea, still a shame though as the boat was FAST, with some latest generation foils it’d be right up there. 👍👍👍
That was fascinating, thank you very much.
4:50 The round bow is intended to keep the boat from digging into the waves.
The enclosed cockpit also reduces crew fatigue. Anyone working outdoors in a windy environment knows how tiring it can be to be exposed to wind for any length of time. The reduction to fatigue and risk of physical injury is another factor allowing the crew to push the boat harder in an extended race.
Great vid, but please use more sailing footage while you're speaking. You say early on that you're going to do this, but unfortunately the footage flashes by far too quickly while you're discussing a particular point.
The video could be half the length, its very irritating.
I think the new jauge permits a 5° rake for the foils.
as last vendee, probably the biggest problem is wales/ containers. Do they have fishfinders or other solutions for that installed this race? going from 35 to 0 will break the foils..... and the changes of hugo boss like last time. Do you know?
do have measures against that this time.
Great video, informative with good content
You should look at Chevalier Taglang for some very interesting line drawings and data on all the modern racing boats.
Wow chevalier Taglag is a great site, thank you!