If an art teacher tells you to not draw anime... Tell them that the anime, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, was featured at the Louvre Museum... The same Louvre that houses the Mona Lisa.
I always say that your education doesn't begin or end when you're in class. If your teacher or professor doesn't want you to draw anime art or fanart for their class, then you should go home and draw anime art and fanart for yourself.
That is with everything. A good education is merely a preperation to give you some guidelines that you can fall back on. the real learning happens when you put the theory into application. Same with learning to drive, learning any skill for any job... For many jobs and skillsets you need to get additional training and study courses throughout your career to stay up to date on the latest developments. unfortunately students these days seem to think that getting a degree is where it all stops and then stop developing themselves. And with their pubescent youthful hubris they think that the degree means they're better/superior while in reality they're still dumb as f. You can Learn/know (theory/academia) and by putting it into Practice (real application) it'll turn into Understanding (wisdom) If you don't stay on top of this...your development is stunted. And so will you be as a human being.
Did you know? Vincent van Gogh got really inspired by Japanese art OF HIS TIME to a weeb level. If I got inspired by Louvre-featured artist Hirohiko Araki, screw you, I’m the real high art appreciator.
@@squiiji3D EXACTLY!! And, it's my favourite historical European movement as well because Monet and van Gogh knew their colours from the art that inspired them. Ignoring Japanese influence on Impressionism is the same poison as ignoring the West African influence on Jazz.
@@LueKiro JoJo and Xsnoblade have become my autistic special interest/brainrot. Also, Hirohiko Araki cites master studies as a good practice, and I believe that a master can be many different artists. I mean, in terms of animated art styles, I believe one can study Frieren and Steven Universe for different elements, like the drawing of fabric and close-ups of faces in Frieren is actually masterful, and the colours of Steven Universe aged so well, it has the perfect skies.
@@corrinflakes9659 definitely agree with you! Araki has a beautiful artstyle and his work is incredible. My artstyle has been partly influenced by his.
I remember an art teacher saying "look, i know you want to draw anime, but if you don't learn proportions how are you going to experiment with MODIFYING proportions? You'll end up stuck with what you know and never improve" It took me a while to stop hating her, but I'm glad i heard her tbh. She didnt want me to stop drawing my way, but to learn perspectives and improve, maybe use these new things i learned on my stylised art later.
Art teachers can be the worst. I remember one in particular… she was kind of insane. First she told us to copy a photo (not even a painting, an actual *photograph!)* and then color it however we’re feeling right now. It was.. somewhat interesting? But then she legit went around class making suggestions as to which colors would be better! The “best” part? I used nothing but basic pencil for it, just shading stuff because I really like black and white aesthetic. She came up to me and *demanded* that I use colored pencils, too. Naturally, I told her “You said to do it based on how we’re feeling.” Her response? “You CAN’T be feeling like this!” It was both hurtful, because how dare you, but also kind of funny because.. how does one actually say something that stupid with a straight face?
I'm sorry you experienced that. Having such a demoralizing person in charge of teaching people about art [which is arguably the one subject taught in school driven more or less completely by passion] is such a dumb choice. You'd think that schools would make an effort to hire teachers who would help students on their educational/creative journey, but no. Instead we have people like your teacher, who apparently can't accept that others don't feel what she feels 🙄
The irony is that van Gogh, Manet, Édouard Monet, Claude Monet, Edgar Degas and others were inspired a whole lot by japanese art, so much so it became a whole movement. The influence of eurocentric art has also manifested itself in Asia, altho rarer to find for example: Araki, the author of JoJo's Bizzare Adventure has stated that he was highly inspired by european art. Honestly i have never experienced this neither in Grade School or High School, because atleast from Brazil's curriculum art classes are more like history of art.
I was once told western Disney-like animation was better than anything anime could do in my high school animation course. My counter argument was basically: “yutaka nakamura exists”
I feel as the Disney or the "Cal-Arts" style gets bland overtime if we don't usually expand our horizons as artists to make something visually unique and that's what strikes me in the wrong direction when disney gets more praised when there're other various unique styles visually outside of that.
From my high school classes, I was supeeeer scared to draw anime in College. A lot of my college peers drew it, but I thought I couldn't for whatever reason. One day though one of my teachers was really supportive. He actually listened to where I wanted to go in art, which was storytelling mediums, such as manga, webtoon, etc... Which you know, stylization makes a lot of sense in those mediums. He even let me borrow Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics. He was my favorite art teacher, and I always will remember him.
Oo I always highly recommend Understanding Comics for my Graphic Novel Class! I'm really happy for you that you've found more support for your interests in college now (:
@@JLCL01 He let me borrow 3 of his books, I think it might have been one of them? I kind of lumped them all together as a series though so I'm not sure
FINALLY, SOMEONE WHO SPEAKS MY MIND! I feel like the Western sphere of art education is extremely narrow and full of pretentious old people who believe they know everything about art. It’s because of these types of people that I feel like art isn’t taken seriously outside of communities specifically surrounding art. Unchecked bias is the root of ignorance and close-mindedness. To anybody who find this comment, please, always keep an open view of the world, and please stay humble about the art or craft you practice.
It is SO narrow depending where you go. They've been teaching the same curriculum since the 80s or 90s, which was already outdated, and still refuse to broaden their horizons ):
In the 9th grade, I had this very old and strict art teacher. Living-fossil years old I mean. Somehow, he was the most okay with the anime style out of every other teacher I had which were much younger than him. The only thing he wasn't a fan was drawing characters with one eye covered by the hair.
That's fantastic! One of my colleagues I convinced to be more fanart/anime positive also fits into that category, I figure these guys remember when other mediums and styles of art were rejected before becoming integrated into fine art and are expecting it to wind up going the same way with anime.
I agree with that teacher. It's lazy as fuck unless that character has an actual reason to have one eye covered. It's sign of a beginner, because usually it's difficult for a beginner artist to draw both eyes and make them look "right"
@@guikoi3101 He lived most of his life in a world with stricter rules. By that I mean a country under a communist regime. Children were in big troubles if they were not respecting the school uniform, like being forced to stay on their knees on nutshells. Young adults were at risk of being taken by police and forcefully shaved if their hair was too long. Acts of rebellion were frowned upon back then and having your hair covering an eye will be the kind of nonconformism that was equivalent with rebellion.
Short answer: Art teachers aren't telling you to never draw anime and fan art at all ever, they're telling you to not draw **only** anime or fan art. Only drawing anime without knowing how the real human body works will lead to inconsistencies and mistakes, and it's usually used as a crutch. They teach realism to get you used to the basics before you put a twist on them, as well as to improve your observational and technical skills. To draw original works and not only to draw fan art will improve your creativity and help you improve your design skills as well. Although I do feel that it's stupid to say that all anime art is bad or all fan art is bad, I do understand why assignments usually don't accept fan art (and depending on the class, anime). And this is coming from someone who is absolutely terrible at drawing realism (although I don't exactly draw anime). In my 2023-2024 school year, I had 2 art classes: One (Studio Art) was focused on realism and traditional art. The other (Adobe Visual Design) was focused on graphic design and digital art. For the Studio Art class, we were only allowed to draw realistically so that we learned the fundamentals, however focus and effort was also part of the grade. The other allowed any art style, as long as you were anatomically correct, regardless of stylization, and put effort into it, you got a good grade. I feel like having one art class for realism and another that allowed stylization is a perfect compromise.
Im from Southeast Asia, im thankful that my art education is open to EVERY STYLE, anime included. Even when u draw cartoon western cartoon, they'll still accept it. Of course we still learn from historical artwork as a standard
Me too from Philippines. My schools also gave us creative freedom with any artstyle we wanted to draw, and is a relieved W My condolences to western/non-Asian artists affected by bad western school system tho- 🙏
It’s really interesting that art from around the world is being written off. The Great Wave from Japan is at least as iconic as Starry Night. Thought there would be more prevalence of works like that in Fine Arts.
I have a Master's in Printmaking and NEVER ONCE in my art history classes (which, I also have an art history minor) were we taught a single non-European print despite Mokuhanga being invented in Japan and inspiring ALL of the European printmakers 🥲
@@squiiji3D In my art and art history classes, we were taught about Hokusai, and the famous "Great Wave" picture. I also took courses in African, Pacific Islander, and Asian art.
And I don't understand that either, because aren't they supposed to be...art teachers? That'd be like if your whole job was to teach people how to write in certain ways, but you refused to acknowledge poems, especially in an age where people almost all over the world can consume art from almost anywhere in the world
My animation history professor in college doesn't hate anime, there's a week module literally dedicated to Japanese animation. It's just that she says anime isn't realism, and that artists should learn realism before going into stylized.
I had a teacher in college ( looked exactly like the dark haired guy on the left in the middle at 1:47 ) who said that "Unless you're asian you should NEVER draw anime." And implied that anime looking anything will always get an F in his class. We had only one Asian girl in our class who had an "anime" style and he properly graded and critiqued her work. Anyone else got a huge lecture about how bad they were. He was a crazy, r@cist misogynist though so, while shocking, it wasn't too surprising coming from him. 🤷 Great vid as always! 🍄💕
That is ABSOLUTELY WILD and he is exactly the kind of educator I was talking about (funny that I nailed his likeness too), I'm so sorry that y'all had to put up with him ):
As a fellow art educator, I mostly agree with what you're saying. I LOVE animation and have a healthy appreciation for Anime. Being an older animator, though, I came up in an era when getting work in anime was nearly impossible unless you were Japanese and lived in Japan. Outside of that was never heard of. Now, things are changing, and you have more options, and studios are more open. But, the mentality is still there among older instructors. Does that need to change? Yes, but that falls under what you've already discussed. The other point that I'd like to raise is that in our program, we find that if anime is accepted... it's all we get. Which can pigeonhole our students' abilities. Students can be absolutely amazing at Anime style but can not recreate another art style. This can (not always, but can) limit your prospects when looking for work. That's not just for anime, though. If your strength is in Comic book style or Cal Arts (ugh, I hate using that term) but you're weak in other styles, that's a limit that should be overcome. What I tell my students is to think of me as an art director. I have a specific style that I need to see and requirements for the assignments that need to be met. In your personal work, do whatever you want! Create an entire portfolio of anime and manga styles. Hell, on a personal level, I would LOVE to see what you create! But, for these anatomy studies, I need to see realism. For the character design assignment, do not use an already-established art style. It's not always about us "hating anime" and it's also not a personal attack on your style. Does that happen? Unfortunately, yes. Still, sometimes, we're trying to teach you concepts that may make your personal work stronger. And yes... the end goal is to pass your classes. You have to choose your battles. Sometimes, it's better to just pump out what they want to see and move on. You can still create whatever you want on your own.
My traditional printing professor in high school didn't forbid us from doing anything but he was very open about disliking anime, mostly because in his view it all looks too same-y. He really valued variety, and even if there are many anime artstyles, they're still simplified in rather similar ways especially for the prupose of animation. Similar feet and palms and the way the hair is drawn, that's what he was not down for; that was the only direct anti-anime at school I came across. But art school and university killed my drive for art in general even when they weren't restrictive - it's the weight of being always under 100% scrutiny and nothing ever being good enough. Even when you get top grades, it's rare to come across kind words. Still somehow got my masters degree in mix of art/education/psychology after sitting in 6 years of art middle school and then going straight to masters degree and it keeps being weirdly useful to me, which is the biggest surprise of my life lmao. I still do art and earn money via it, but it became way more difficult vs my 15yo self who was drawing just for the joy of it 24/7.
I can understand the logic your teacher is using, but I won't say I agree with it. If he was into variety, I'd hope he was a HUGE fan of western cartoon styles because they really nail that aspect, taking variety to a level far surpassing reality. I didn't really get into the complaints/reasons teachers give for disliking anime on a technical level because it almost always just boils down to them enforcing their opinion onto their students. I'm glad your professor at least didn't stop you guys from doing that. And BOY do I feel you about art programs being restrictive, I just finished my Master's and I really want to know who thinks that having people breathing down your neck while you create is the best way to make great work 😅 I had SOME supportive professors, but not many, so I'm trying to provide the support and positivity that many of us never recieve
At least he just stated his point and didn't force anything onto us so I can respect that hah. And I doubt he liked even cartoons, but during high school specifically we mainly focused on various printing techniques during his lessons rather than what we were illustrating with them so I didn't have much insight into that, aside from that one talk about anime. I think you are doing a great job with balancing education with support! At least on your channel 💛 Also I so related to the last segment about having good intentions but being shackled by the system. I was invited to start getting my doctorate, which here is useful only for working at a university, aside from just having bragging rights, aaanddd... I really didn't want to do that. I love students, but aside from the strict program I'd have to now abide by, in my country to keep your position you need to gather points, and in the art fields they consist mostly of having your art in exhibitions. And during my 5 years at uni I truly grown to hate them (too circle-jerky and made just for the sake of getting some points). For not-art university workers you just have to keep writing books and articles to be published too, so it feels like an endless cycle of homework instead of focusing on your work as an educator.
That teacher should see One piece and Dragon ball. There is so much variety into anime styles ass well even tho there are some general things. I think anime suffers at least partly from what I'we heard about some peopple say about that (insert a race) peopple look the same to the peopple that are (insert a different race of humans) just because peoples palettes aren't used to them. About well gate keeping of anime-style I think I'we run into "anime is a japanese animation, why are you an european trying to do that? It's not our culture so you can't be a real anime artist." Or it might be just my own head canon from the way anime was described to me back in the day combined with some art teacher vibes... still drawing in anime style because I just can't help it tho xD
@@Meewy I was lucky to never feel a twinge of racism honestly or european glazing at school; they would just way rather us learn from let's say indigenous paintings vs anything animation honestly (or just anything pre-simplified, even drawing from photos was forbidden because it simplified 3D space into 2D already), especially when it came to traditional drawing lessons vs lessons about illustration or character design, that's two different beasts. The older I grew the more I got why they try to teach us realism when we're young so we have a good basics so then we can truly freely choose how to stylize what we know to be real, but it's little ironic cuz the younger you are the more you just want to draw cartoon characters that you grew up loving ahah. I am devil's advocate here, but I also kinda get why even open minded teachers getting a little tired when MOST of their class wants to stylize in this one trend (anime) just because it became popular in recent 20 years with the younglings. I think it's fair to require realism in drawing from life classes, but anything should be allowed in illustration/character design if you can justify why use this style to convey this and that etc.. (idk how it's everywhere else, but over here the justification for why you do things the way yoiu do is like 50% of the work 😭). Tbh anime is not the only disliked style, my friend who studied animation specifically, said they would just fail you if you drew in typical disney style. Sometimes it's just this snotty need to create only "high art" and all these artstyles are just not what they would consider that.
to be fair.... anime does look very samey and is relatively simple to draw compared to other art styles. the relative simplicity makes it also more accessible to more people to draw it. and let's be honest... unless you are a Ghibli or Toriyama with a very distinct style...you are most likely looking very similar to the next person drawing anime. Even anime shows and JRPG's these days are looking more and more the same and indistinguishable from one another. Since the art style is kept simplistic it can be mass produced quickly and thus loses its soul even more. thus making me gradually lose interest in watching modern day anime and instead go back to the older ones that I grew up with. Ghost in the Shell is still my favorite.
My high school senior art teacher, surprisingly enough, didn't even hate anime. She had how to draw anime books in her classroom, and even put on Studio Ghibli movies on in class when we worked on our projects. She was also my favorite teacher in high school too. She let me sit in her classroom during lunch, since I had lunch right after my art class and let me watch movies like Spirited Away
the worst thing an 'anti anime' teacher ever did to me was manage to trigger my ahdh defiance. "Dont draw anime" huh? Fuckin try to stop me now loser i will tank my grade and take it as a point of pride!.... and as a result learn so many horrible bad habbits all because i was told 'anime bad!' instead of 'you should really focus on basics first'.
@@mrosskne how and why is anime bad, yes there's alot of bad anime but isn't that same thing with anything else, like comic books, movie, music, books, games and alot more. So answer or are you doing this for attention
My hs art teacher asked me once "What's this character from?" (It was Soul Eater fanart) "That's fine but is it only Soul Eater or are /you/ being represented? What personal spin can you put on it?" Or something along those lines. She was really nice about it.
The eurocentrism, racism, classicism, is why I hate the academic art world and ended up not pursuing art, although that what everyone expected me to do. Especially how traditional and modern art world keeps gatekeeping non-western artists and their masterpieces from entering the global art platform. It gets my blood boiling
Several of my art teachers hated anime art and realism both, which, quite frankly (especially in combination) often feels borderline targeted against neuro-divergent students. I think you're right in that most of it stems from Eurocentrism, but that also comes with an element of "forced meaning", where a minimum level of abstraction and applied meaning is demanded.
Traditional Art Teachers: No Anime Allowed! 😡 Anime & Fan Artwork: Don't Hate Me Cause I'm Beautiful! 😂 But on a serious note, I'm so glad my professor allowed me to draw in an art style that suits me
Theres a very similar issue over in the UK as well, but it isnt as bad, high school has you building up to making an art piece for 10 hours for your GCSE exam but from what ive heard from my friends (Not an art GCSE holder here lol - I did comsci) they were pretty lenient, but we’re still taught by the traditionalists that rule the school system in terms of art, luckily, i am in college now, and my current teachers (games art and animation student here) are both in their 20s and both have portfolios on artstation that you can check out with both of them having been in the games industry, i was scared to bring up anything remotely anime when we were asked to bring up any 3d models we find inspiring, but i did and all they said was that they hoped they coild help me get my 3d modelling from a complete newbie modeller, to being able to get to the place that inspires me, which is why i feel lucky to have them as teachers :D
Glad to see you be frank about the more difficult topics centered on this issue. Because unfortunately you do see it online as well and it's more than likely a result of people taking these messages from art schools a little too close to heart. Another great video!
Thank you! I've felt VERY strongly about this while teaching at the university level, I'm at least hopeful for the future at least as younger generations are more open minded on these topics but it's a rough system to try and learn or thrive in sometimes in the meantime
in online communities the vitriol isn't from old traditionalists but from insecure bitter people that feel better about themselves by putting others down. I noticed with a lot of the younger people ... they lack the skill of thinking for themselves and figuring out how things work. So they need more stricter handholding and more stricter methods that can be used. especially among the self taught individuals. when you tell them that a cartoon character has to be measured by "length of the drawn head" and use 8,5-9 heads of height for the entire character. then they'll cling to that like a damn autist and anyone who deviates even a smidge they'll then call names in their online communities. It is a shame to see.
I had a college professor tell me that taking that route was the laziest path I could take in drawing. This man was an abstract artist 🗿 but was teaching web design and some other random art classes.
Coincidence maybe, but my first Foundations of Drawing teacher was a huge nerd, and my second year teacher was an abstract modern artist. The second year my love for art was so damaged I never fully recovered. Like the second she found out what I was into, she pre-decided that I wasn't worth it. So it was a double-whammy of having my interests torn down while also never being good enough at something I was previously talented at. It's not like I wasn't following instructions, either. I only veered in that direction on my own time or if there was an open "free space" type of project.
I am a Japanese American artist, and I have always felt that anti-anime teachers had some racism behind them, of course as I am Japanese American, it is a personal matter for me, this made it harder going through the high school art system and will no doubt make it more difficult to go through art college (I start at KCAI in 6 days, wish me luck), thankfully the college I am going to seems to be an outlier as far as acceptance of Japanese art, they have a dedicated Asian studies minor that while I do think should be a bit more diverse, focuses a lot on Japanese art in its many forms, including anime, this place is also the only art school in the country that actually teaches Japanese, so I think I picked a pretty good option albeit the struggle will still be there
Another reason why I think those styles are discouraged from students is because, as you mentioned, portfolios are looked over by traditionalists. They do not know what is an original anime style and what is an owned anime IP. So they’re not able to distinguish what’s an original idea and what’s not because they don’t watch the medium or interact with the medium. So they cover all their bases and ban all of it.
I had a teacher that absolutely destroyed my love of art. I love Pokémon and she told me to stop making Pokémon art and it just caused me to just not care about art anymore. Not being able to do what I loved completely seeped my enjoyment out of it and now I’m finally getting back into it as a hobby.
Good for you for getting back into your hobby! I’m so proud of you for doing what you love! Pokémon is very fun! One of my favorite things is when people make their own Pokémon and stuff. The art is always on neat!
As someone curently getting an arts degree, I've decided that even if I'm not practicing in the styles I prefer, learning more traditional styles is still better for my art than not learning them. I see anime as an art style, yes, but also a lens through which other styles can be interpreted. Realism and impressionism are especially important to cartooning in general, and as much as I loathe it, "You have to understand the rules to break them properly" is a true statement. Even as a Junior, I still feel under-equipped in these departments. My understanding if realism is there, but my skill at it is very poor, and thats holding me back in thr stylization I want to create. So, like, if you're stuck in a curriculum that's preventing you from stylizing the way you want to, try to see it as practice rather than being discouraged. Your style will still be there when you're done, and it will be better.
Tradionalists: how DARE you try to have an informed debate in an academic setting! You will NEVER be accepted into an art university! Anime fans: ok well if youre not teaching what i want to improve on anyway then ill just go to artists online courses and streams where i'll learn techniques and tips that will lead me to improve. And its going to be cheaper than university education anyway. Traditionalists: WAIT NO WE NEED YOUR TUITION FEES TO FUND OUR SUMMER TRIP TO FRANCE!!!!!
I think some degree of "traditionalism" needs to exist in order to protect quality and standards. And as with everything... Too Much of anything becomes toxic, so apply moderation. We have over 15 years of examples in which "gatekeeping" has been taken down and the quality of the products and fandoms has deteriorated drastically. With those fandoms and products no longer delivering quality it means the original fanbase leaves and takes their money with them. While no meaningful new audience is being tapped into. As such those companies/products are failing constantly. Many companies going outright bankrupt. Yet bad faith actors will blame "bigotry" and other shortsighted childish name calling. However any form of education needs to be in line with what the business sectors and industries require their future employees to have when it comes to skillsets. Problem that I see is that many educational facilities are not keeping up with the many new industries that have popped up. Art is no longer limited to mere galleries and high society. Games Industry needs artists, studio's that make comics and cartoon tv shows need artists, manga/anime studio's need artists. I can see that that study courses need to have a more traditional education to learn the techniques....however there needs to be space for more specialized courses to prepare and guide students towards the myriad of other directions. Also you need to be able to learn and apply different styles. Just look at various game/animation studio's where you need to be able to switch styles depending on the aesthetic for that particular product. Limiting yourself to learning only about one will only stunt your development, make you very narrowminded and reduce your chance of getting a job
@@GiblixStudio Respectfully I don't think this is correct. The issue highlighted in the video is that anime-style work, regardless of its quality, is being rejected by art teachers in academia who do not like the style; this means that a person could hand in a top-quality piece of artwork done in an anime-style, and it would still be rejected. Therefore, it's hard to believe that this is simply a matter of maintaining the quality of the artwork being produced if the said quality is not considered in its rejection. Further it does not seem to be the case that no new audience is being tapped into. As you yourself point out, there is a market and, subsequently, jobs available for artists with anime styles due to the enormous popularity of anime at the moment. So if the quality of the anime art is good and the demand is there, it doesn't seem to be the case that rejections of anime artwork in academia can be based on maintaining quality or ensuring that artists can then get work in the current setting. As for learning the techniques, while I do admit the initial learning of these techniques may be easier when applied to the style that they were originally created for, this does not entail that they should not be used on other styles. There is no reason for me not to learn a specific style of shading from copying frames from an anime or pannels from a manga just because i learnt the learning technique from a class that focused on fruit. I am not rejecting learning the techniques from other styles, but if I want to learn how to draw in an anime style, I fail to see why studying examples from anime would not be the best course of action. Additionally its important to note that the term 'anime' encompasses numerous art styles. The art style in Bleach's manga is vastly different to the art style in Bungo Stray Dogs's manga, so there is no reason why you cannot acquire the necessary skill set to learn new and different styles of art by studying different styles of manga and anime in opposition to different styles of realsim or abstract paintings. In short, I don't deny that you can learn useful techniques from different art styles and those who came before you; you should; otherwise you would be reinventing the wheel every time you tried to figure something out. but the contents of the video are clearly not objecting to the idea of learning from past artists rather the fact that when these lessons are applied to an anime style in an academic setting they are rejected regardless of the quality of the piece produced. Also, I should point out that unless you get the chance to apply these techniques and lessons to an anime style, you can't then ensure that the quality of that style remains high as your skills in one style do not immediately transfer over to another. An artist may be great at creating abstract depictions of people, but if they try to immediately translate those skills over to a realist style, it is unlikely that the skills they have would be able to create a good quality piece. If the setting you are in does not allow you to apply these techniques and seek feedback from professionals, then it is hard to learn what you are doing wrong and how you need to improve. So, in order to maintain the quality of the work being produced, it makes more sense to allow students to make works in an anime style so they can be critiqued and they can learn from their mistakes to ensure they do not repeat them. It doesn't make sense to try to improve your skills in anime-style art by only painting realist stuff. Yes, you can learn things from it, but unless you apply those lessons to the anime style, it's not going to help you improve.
@@GiblixStudioacademia gatekeeps to hell...we won't have to worry about non gatekeeping probably ever. It's the exact opposite of what u said really. Yes it's nice to have historical precedent but acemdia is notoriously slolw Online communities are vastly dif.
@@GiblixStudio Nah... When I mastered photo realism as a child. This is nothing. People call mimicking a photo original???... ... ... This is why video games have more promis in art than anything from the art industry in America. From the ground up. Because often times, you need connections more than anything else because that's what the art industry is. Skill means nothing if drawing on paper is the only skill one has. Without connections or an industry you can make from the ground up. Some kid in Asia can do it better.
I FORGOT TO COMMENT! Thank you Professor Iiji for your lovely video! I think this is a great angle for your channel. I learned a lot about art school in this upload! It reminds me a lot about being a viola performance major and doing so much classical music in my life. Professors focus so much on sticking to the classical repertoire that you often miss out on musician skills that you will need beyond orchestra such as the business end and playing things beyond European baroque, classical, and romantic music. That is part of the reason why I learned vibraphone and played in Jazz ensembles, so that I could have a bit more freedom!
I’m actually very thankful for the art program at the university I attend. I was very pleasantly surprised that so many of my professors were open to students using anime and other simpler styles for assignments, heck we have a class entirely about anime. And I can tell a lot of the professors there are trying hard to include art from many continents and fight the Eurocentric tendencies of the art world. It gives me hope and I hope encourages more universities to follow.
So this kinda happened to me in 11th grade. I drew an anime character for this art contest that my school hosted. Now, I know I made a couple of mistakes and maybe the background didn’t have to be blank but I thought I did good and they would see the improvement from last year’s work I did. They were blown away by another artist (which totally deserves the 1st place) that when they went to look at the anime art I did of the character, they had a hard time or rather they didn’t take it seriously, they were comparing it to the 1st place, didn’t really offer any constructive criticism to it (I was there for the judging since I had to help out. I didn’t tell them that I was the artist) they were hesitant to consider it art- and and what’s even more crazy is the previous year there was an western comic book style artwork there, got 2nd or 3rd for it. When I saw this video, it made me feel not alone in this struggle. TvT
1:30 I had exactly one of those. He was also constantly talking about the architecture of Fachwerkhäuser. For some reason the only A I ever got was for a photograph. I literally piled some stuff up and edited the photo a bit while spending hours on some other assignments just to get Cs.
The problem with schools is that 1. they not not teach us alot about how to pay bills and taxes 2. they do not teach alot about fair use, copyright law and public domain- in some art classes they teach you how to copy but even that can be not benefical to create own art and it does not teach anything about fair use i think
For point number 1, do we really need to be taught bills and taxes? School teaches us math and how to follow step by step directions, pretty much all you need. Our school makes a personal finance class mandatory and no one paid attention or cared
@@racool911 In contrast to your statement, you are correct but not all schools have this knowledge yet i think- I do not know whatever we have not been educated on it or the fact that we had not repeated the lesson everyday like I managed to learn how to structure point. evidence. explanation. develop for my english language and literacy exams. but i wanted to say thank you for your response. I still think they need to teach us fair use. Have a wonderful day
The school system in general is just retarded inside and out, it would be much better to let the STUDENTS decide what they wanna focus on learning, and instead of teaching them EVERYTHING at once, which overwhelms them, let them pick out classes they're interested in, which would allow to them to grow faster because they actually wanna learn. Oh, they're picking classes that they're friends are picking? Good, let them suffer for not taking their life seriously. (PS: I came up with this idea when I was FUCKING 12)
Having been though the 1st year of illustration uni where my teachers have constantly tried to mold my art into versions of theirs, ive came to the conclusion that the best teacher is one that helps you achieve your dreams rather than making you achieve theirs. My print making teachers allways listen to me then suggest ways to make my desired print better, my other teachers tend to shut down my ideas and just make me do theirs. They simply dont like certain forms of illustration, i want to do educational illustration but its not emotional and expressive enough for them. Also i love that your an inkcap named after a squeegee its super cute and clever
I would love to talk about the video,,, BUT YOUR MODEL OHHH MY GOD. THE SKIN COLORING, THE HAIR THAT SPLITS AT THE TOP LIKE A MUSHROOM SHOWING THE GILLS UNDER MORE CLEARLY! THE SHADING!!! I am loving it! And you're not breaking the white-skin-white/platinum-hair rule you talked about before! The black hair/gills are like a barrier! It's beautiful.
I don't know where to come in on this discussion as someone who typically draws in the Western animation style, but as far as I'm aware, my lecturers are alright with different styles. I start Character Design this semester so we'll see.
Going into college, I definitely drew in an anime-like style. And I definitely felt shamed by a majority of my art professors for doing so. But even when I tried to cater to their needs more, most of what I made seemed to be far from good enough. It took such a tool on me that I started to hate art all together, especially since I ended up failing out of my art degree despite all the work I put in. That being said, having an educator like you would’ve been such a breath of fresh air. Maybe I could’ve had more art classes where I felt like I belonged. I wouldn’t be surprised if your students felt that way☺️ So thank you for this video. It gave me a reminder to keep healing my relationship with art and to feel no shame in how I draw🥹
And that's exactly what I want to avoid! What's the use in crushing someone's love for art, ESPECIALLY as an educator where your single role is to help your students succeed? I'm so sorry that you had to go through that, I hope you've been able to foster a love for art again and that you're enjoying whatever art style you like! And thank you, I'm glad I can give you that reminder (:
I’ve encountered a few people like that before, which includes my mom. She asked me while I was drawing some fan art of “Assassination Classroom” one time “Why don’t you draw something original instead?”, and I responded by saying “I don’t want to make original stuff all the time!” & that shut her up about it. People like her need to learn that not every piece of art has to be original works. Those master copies you were talking about are literal examples of that. Also I ain’t much of a “creative type”. I got an idea for a web comic & it’s literally best described by me as a “Scooby Doo rip-off”. I don’t really have much of a creative bone in my body. Those Traditionalist you described sound like they are also just plain racist. They need to learn that there’s more than one art style through out the world. Also I find realism rather boring. I love me some cartoonish art.
Unfortunately, my art teacher rejected me doing a stippling art project on a photograph of jun togawa in her classic lobster costume because it wasn’t “high definition enough”. Then I tried to do other iconic photos like the eyepatch cat one, or the cool cybernetic arm one, even her dragonfly one, or the pink dress, all rejected. I can make out her face good enough, most of the pictures are from the 80s… so I had to pick some random ass lady I didn’t want to draw.
In my experience the education industry doesn't care about what you want. (I was studying game development and every project was an argument with the school about art style)
Thank you so much for making this video! While I’m not an art major-too stressful for me, I still draw as a hobby occasionally though-in high school I did take one art class and sadly had an anti anime teacher. I wasn’t even super deep into anime at the time but I liked some game series with anime art styles and also just realized the double standards as my teacher was the second example of “cartoon art styles are okay but anime isn’t” This really annoyed me even if my style wasn’t really anime-even now it’s still cartoony-cause it didn’t make much sense to me as I found anime to be more of a accurate deception of anatomy then cartoons and always found the complaint about the face being very cherry picked. (Especially with more anime I’ve seen now, a lot of them aren’t bug eye) Obviously now I realize how anime and realism differ as anime still a very simplified version at the end of the day, but having that teacher for just one semester was super annoying and it made me glad I never took another art class. But I feel very validated thanks to this video since it’s nice to know why this stuff happens and I hope in the future this anti anime and fan art mindset can be erased completely.
In my middle school art class we had a sub that would come in quite frequently and everyone absolutely hated him, except for me and my friend. He used to teach art at a magnet high school in our area so he was VERY invested in what the sub plans were. If it were a simple worksheet, he’d change it to make it a whole lesson about anatomy or shading. I would visit him after school and sit and chat in the classroom and we would talk for legit 15-45 minutes whenever we got the chance. It was great, but one of the things that he said that will ALWAYS stick with me. Is he said if you applying for an art program “DO NOT DRAW ANIME” or “We don’t wanna see anime” At one point he was actually on the committee that decided which art applications were accepted into the magnet high school he worked at. I tried to convey this info to my friends who drew in an anime like style but they got mad at me and didn’t listen. Not a single one of them got accepted into the art program at the local magnet schools.
Exactly my point ): I'm so sorry that someone who was otherwise a positive mentor was perpetuating the stigma against anime styles, but it really is everywhere. He had the power to make a positive change instead of siding with the traditionalists when he was accepting applications, he should have used it
My high school art teacher was so sweet! She encouraged me to continue my fanart as long as I challenged myself and don’t keep myself in a box. She’s also one of the nicest and sweetest person ever!
I had a teacher back in highs chool tell her class that drawing anime what so ever got you an automatic failing grade. I was only in that class for like one day before the school put me back in piano. From what I heard at least she got fired for tearing up a students sketchbook because it had anime sketches in it.
im glad and very grateful to have an art teacher who was willing to teach me every single tips and hacks in traditional AND digital arts, he is also teaching me the basics of color theory, lighting shades and stuff like that and also patterns since i told him i wanted to become a fashion designer
I was a weeb in school decades ago, and turned most of my school art projects into something anime, and my teachers were mostly cool with it. That said, I do think that it limited my long term development as an artist to "anime up" so many projects. I mean, if you like anime, do anime stuff, no harm there, but I would advise any learning artists to ALSO try to do whatever art styles the class is teaching. I guarantee you that trying to draw things in a realistic manner, or in some abstract style, or in other styles, it will improve how well you can draw anime characters too. You learn the basic underlying principles so that you can know how to translate that into anime. If ALL you do is copy your favorite anime artists work, then you're less likely to figure out WHY those artists made certain choices, why they put lines in certain places and don't put lines in others. You might eventually evolve into a good artist, but you're much more likely to struggle as just parroting, no better than an AI. So TLDR, do your anime stuff, sure, but also try to just do exactly the kind of works the teacher is trying to teach, the still lifes, the anatomy studies, the classic landscapes, all the boring, non-anime stuff. It's work, but it's useful work. Do the anime stuff on your own time (mostly).
I agree with you 100%! That's why I enforce figure drawing and fundamental classes stay in realistic/semi-realistic styles but allow total freedom elsewise, ya gotta learn WHY certain aspects of anime styles work so that you can use them effectively when you do (: I'm amazed you had art teachers 10 years ago that were all chill with it though! That's some good luck
@@squiiji3D Try 25 years ago. :D Yeah, they were cool. Now in college my school was more focused on "art for art's sake" sort of gallery artwork in a lot of ways, so some teachers were less into it, but they were relatively open to it anyway, and by then I was maturing a bit too so I was at least delivering the project as intended.
Whoops I read "decades" as one decade, gonna double down and say that was some GOOD LUCK DANG. I'm happy to hear programs like the one you were in have existed for a while!!
9/10 of the anime artists I think do the best work though have no formal training and have never posted anything but anime art. You can learn these skills while drawing anime, and it'll probably be more fun.
@@yurisei6732 Challenging yourself with a project outside your comfort zone can be fun too. and I would also suspect that your favorite anime artists have done a *lot* of non-anime artwork in their practicing, they just likely don't consider it something worth making public. It's like how MCU actors spend a ton of time in the gym to get those physiques, but the important part is what makes it into the actual films.
This was very good to hear from an actual art teacher. My time between being a middle school anime weeb and graduation my college with every art class aside from Photography and Oil painting with aspiration to work in comics and illustration it had always been baffling to me what the art teacher hatred for anime art was. Especially because of how common it was for teachers to see that you're doing what they want for class but drawing anime/fanart recreationally and still judge your class output based on that. I had always figured it was due to curriculum restrictions but I never understood the hatred outside of it, and the teachers who seemed neutral to the style didn't seem to know how to really help you improve
I'll never forget the moment my High School art teacher scoffed at the idea of me drawing Anime on a "draw anything you want" project 😅 So I ended up drawing Hokusai instead. ...And now I'm an anime vtuber.
@@TheDkmariolink the great wave of kanagawa is one of the most famous woodblock print of hokusai's and a common fav, always good to see more of it imo anyways
This video is an amazing case study in how you can have an exceptionally accurate and poignant premise, the experience of the field to to do it justice, and all the relevant details... ...and then clothe it in so much charged social language that anyone that doesn't 100% agree with every social opinion you have immediately switches off.
getting told I wouldn't be able to "draw like that" in year 10 was heartbreaking - but bless my year 12 teacher who heard me out on not drawing photorealism from a personal preference, and let me go through with a sketchy, childish way of drawing for my major work - it's yet to be submitted but amidst my small class of five, we have differing styles and artistic interests - all it really is, is being passionate about what you do
And that's why 99% of good looking anime comes from japan, whilst many literature works from other countries worthy of being animated are collecting dust.
Thank you for this video. I've only had one professor in my educational career give me any response as to why they aren't a fan of anime art, the rest just auto rejected it. My classes encourage us to "Share Art We Like!" until its anime or cartoon-like styles. Then it's a no go or something to be looked down upon. It's such a shame. Think of how art curriculum could evolve if anime art was embraced alongside the traditional artstyles! I still find myself hiding my anime art in an educational setting unless backed into a corner.
I'm so sorry you're stuck hiding it! It sounds like your professors are definitely falling into the closed minded category of educator, I hope you get to embrace all of your art more!
I had the opportunity to deal with two Art Teachers in High School. One was an absolutely strict Traditionalist who wanted us to do nothing but still life's every day and the other was more free form and open to interpretation. The second of the two was still buried by the requirements for the class, which sucked, but she wanted to foster more creative growth in us than purely technical ability. I still appreciate that. As for University. I had an Instructor who was open to the Anime Style, even if you could see the pain in his eyes every time it was brought up: but he wanted to also push us to explore other styles. He viewed it as a fad, and wanted to push us, even those of us who liked it, to find our own identities with in it. I feel like the nature of Universities and Teachers will change over time because the old will be replaced inevitably with the new. Cycles and generations being what they are.
I understand why still life is taught, I teach it (it teaches basic forms, value, texture rendering, etc. but in the most boring way imaginable), but I'm glad you had a teacher who was more freeform too! Not hindering creativity and fun for the sake of teaching technique is a sign of a great educator there. I give your university professor credit for not rejecting it, I hope he learns that it isn't a fad, but at the same time wanting you guys to find your own approach and identities within it is a good direction!
My teacher told me once that I should never study art if I want to have a job as an artist or designer or something similar. He said that art schools don't teach you how to draw art in a way that would help you out in a modern day world where art could be a part of your job, but that they teach art "history" and the understanding of art in the past, which is not something what someone can use to earn money. He too was once an artist, studying art but got crushed by his own teachers because he wanted to learn art as a means of making money. Therefore he instead became a teacher to catch future artist and set the record straight by warning them about art schools and that those who want to earn money shall learn how to teach themselves art by going through the internet and learning from other successful artist of their own times and not from artist of the past.
Wow this video was super encouraging! I'm in college right now and I have an anime style. I was super concerned about it going in, but so far my professors have been fairly encouraging to me! I'm glad there are professors like you out there that encourage anime inspired styles despite the flak they get in the west sometimes. Although, I am a little concerned about finding a job in the future. I know a lot of artists can make freelancing work for them with this style, but is there hope for finding a more corporate job in the west with an anime style? I want to be an illustrator/character designer, hopefully for games, but like the examples shown, most anime style games are made in the east. Maybe I just don't know of any studios in the US that would need/want an anime art style, but sometimes I fear that my art style will forever limit me to freelancing work. That is, if I don't want to uproot my life and move to a country where I would be more likely to find work. Maybe by the time I graduate I'll know where to look for that.
Yay, I'm so glad your professors have been encouraging! As far as your future goes, my suggestion is to specialize. Character Designer is the most competitive art position at most studios because it's the one everyone wants. Pick something within character designing to really hone your abilities on, you'll need something to stand out with. Are you really good at rendering eyes? Do you make really out-there concepts work? Do you have clever symbolism in your designs? Those are the things that help portfolios like that land positions. As far as uprooting your life though, I wouldn't worry about that as much. A lot of these types of positions are remote or at least hybrid now, so you may not have to move to work with a company. Good luck out there (:
I have a sort of nuanced take on the subject, because while I'm not at all someone inherently against anime artstyles and fanart, I think in my classroom I'd want to make a space for creativity that is a bit less derivative. Not to say inspiration is bad inherently, every work of art under the sun is derivative, but when it comes to things like anime and fanart I think in higher education there's something to be said about strongly encouraging creativity that doesn't stem from the RELATIVELY similar art style found across MOST anime I've seen stuff about. This wouldn't just apply to anime, it'd apply to the western Disney or "Cow" art styles as well. The arts are all about self expression and creativity, and I feel like copying or strongly emulating the style of your favourite artist or anime is limiting to the development of more signature and diverse expressions of art. Fan art however I believe should be looked at with even more of a case by case basis. Drawing what you imagine your favourite character in a book looks like is a stellar exercise in creativity, but drawing your favourite anime character in their signature pose can only take a student so far. I have nothing at all against anime, I'd watch a lot of it when I was younger, and what I'm saying doesn't exclusively apply to it at all. There's DEFINITELY a big trend of anti-anime/fanart educators not liking anime because it's not what they're used to or they look down on anything that isn't eurocentric. But I think there's a lot more one can discuss on this specific topic.
There’s a difference between ignorance and racism many old people from lots of different countries stick to their own narrative in the borders of their own culture, I personally think it doesn’t stem from racism as much as it is just plain ignorance and being out of touched. As a Thai person most of our art education is European centric base, culturally it’s Thai of course, but why is it European? Because when it came to the technicalities of art the Europeans are maybe not the ones to discover it first but they’re the ones who made it mainstream, meaning they wrote books and lots of theory of art. Also I’m kinda surprise you haven’t mention how many art teachers don’t necessarily hate the anime style but think realism is a necessary pre requisite to making good anime art as anime is derived from reality, it just so happens that the Europeans seem to be the early adopters and much more interested in this field of realism. Not saying other cultures didn’t try to perfect realism, because they did but it was really just based of iconography.
That's all definitely true, I should have specified "Art Teacher in the US," because here it is less commonly ignorance and more commonly eurocentrism (which they show in a lot of other ways too, not just in their anime hatred) or just stubbornness. I agree though that a basis in realism is super useful, it's why I enforce it only for my fundamentals classes!
@@squiiji3D Ignorance and eurocentrism aren't mutually exclusive. In fact I'd say they were definitionally related - eurocentrism is by definition ignorance of the world beyond Europe. It's entirely possible for someone to experience all the world's art and decide that they personally most like the things going on in Europe, and that wouldn't be eurocentric, it would just be a preference. In eurocentrism, you simply don't know or understand what's going on outside Europe, or you don't care because you aren't aware of the reasons you should.
@@massmurdertron51" refusing to learn about it" that's called ignorance mate. If you know about it and just don't particularly like it, you're not being eurocentric, you just have a preference.
i showed my high school art teacher a howls moving castle inspired drawing that i was working on and he immediately knew what inspired it, he's one of my favorite teachers at my high school
Amazing video! I will deploy the "xyz traditional art is just fan art" if I ever remember. Beep boop feed the algo. Also them traditionalist pics :D also the part on not being able to get rid of dangerous staff fuuu~~~ But luckily we have youtube so we can absorb your thesis on vtuber models and identity. Anyway this video is excellent.
Thank you! 🧡And yes I CONSTANTLY remind my colleagues how much of what we create is derivative of something, the exact same way fan art is, they're never prepared for my bible example hahaha
I was told by my art teachers beside one in high school that it wasn't "real" art. My one teacher (could be two, but that first one was before I got my art style and tried realism) was a sculpting teacher, and she told me to do what felt comfortable, as long as I did the techniques she taught. She ecen asked me what I was drawing sometimes and was happy when I got happy hearing her ask! The teachers I've had who like my art aren't art teachers usually, usually they're core subject teachers or, in one instance, my psychology teacher (yes I had a very rushed psychology class in senior year). That woman was great, still is, and she owns the school's anime club (really glorified LGBTQ+ club), and motivated all of us to do well by making lessons fun! And even if we got answers wrong when she asked the class, we got candy for trying, because in her words "it's positive reinforcement!"
Im glad i grew up with a good art teacher, one who didnt mind me drawing anime and cartoons, they always told me, do what you are comfortable. I was an art teacher for a few years, and i kept his flow, i would let my students do with what they were comfortable but to a certain extent. My grandfather was the one who truly inspired me to draw cartoons and anime stuff, as he loved drawing many styles. His inspiring words were "do what you like best, take your time, make your imagination and what you feel, hold your ideas and create it make it become a reality and make it alive with colors and never give up if you make a mistake, learn from it and improve it." -Jun Takahashi (grandfather, father of Jun Takahashi jr II, Grandfather to Jun K. Takahashi Jr III [me]) But back to what i was saying, art should just be what people imagine in their minds, what they can create on paper. Not Ai or tracing.
I was at a event with a bunch of colleges and Ringling art college was there. I was talking with the lady there and showed her my very anime stylized art, and her response is "We would like to see more realistic art". She tried to put it nicely, but it was then when it hit me I was just not cut out for what these art colleges wanted and I didn't wanna compromise what my art style was. I decided I can do better off on my own selling my art. Now I'm also planning to go into Chemistry as my college major, while doing art on side, quite the twist.
That's so funny because I also have a degree in organic chem from undergrad! But yeah, this is unfortunately common, but I'm glad you aren't going to compromise your style for these schools
Glad I never went there. I decided to go to my local community college that has an animation program, and that program is very welcoming of any art style.
I’m not an artist, but I took a painting class for my gen ed arts requirement and we were assigned to do master copies. The instructor had printed several paintings and allowed each one to be picked only once, and the one I selected was Hokusai’s Great Wave off Kanagawa. It was a real challenge trying to get acrylic paints I applied with a brush to mimic the consistent line thickness and sharpness of a wood block painting, and at some point I gave up trying to imitate it perfectly and diluted some white paint in water to splash a spray effect onto the canvas under the crest of the wave. But I had a lot of fun working on it, and it was a refreshing change from all the Western paintings I was used to seeing in museums! I liked my copy so much that I still have it a decade later, next to a painting of wood planks I made for a theater class. I’m really glad Eurocentrism didn’t prevent my instructor-who I believe was an art student themself-from letting us pick a non-Western painting to imitate.
I remember back in high school my AP art teacher had no problem with our interest in perusing anime styles but she did let us know what was expected in order to score well for the college board. I also asked her why she thought the style was looked down on for a long time. She thought it was because there weren't any studios or jobs anime centric in the US so that could've been the reason it wasn't encouraged. ATLA was an outlier at the time. Now we are seeing it bleed into western animation and other mediums so opportunities definitely being made compared to back then. As long as you understand the fundamentals it shouldn't matter what style you are presenting. Even traditional artists can break the rules. There was a time where impressionism and abstract were considered not real art because it wasn't realistic like the masters before. Now it is a part of art curriculums. This anime art boom is influential globally. I wouldn't be surprised if this art movement will be in a textbook in like 50 years.
Thank you for this. I had a professor who loves anime but discouraged us from using the style. However, I had another professor who was our graphic designer/ figure drawing teacher who loves anime and encourages us to use the style. I find it weird that some professors would disregard anime style considering shows like teen titans, avatar the last Airbender, Castlevania etc are popular and very successful
I remeber drawing chopper when i was like 11 and turning it into my art class. My teacher ridiculed me for it being from a crappy anime. I basically gave up ever doing art again after that point and never looked back
When I was taking classes for my bachelor's degree in art, my teachers had a 'No list.' It was basically a list of things that are considered too cliche or overused (ex: crying, skulls, etc). One of those was anime. Because of my art style being more cartoony, it felt like I was always being looked down on or was treated like a child. My teachers were surprised my realism pieces weren't static at least, but I felt limited and had my art described as "eccentric" usually. There was also an incident where, in an email I was sent, my professor tried to claim Sailor Moon was 'oversexualized' in the show itself to justify having an artist in her powerpoint that treated anime as inherently sexual. She would send me an apology email later though. I have been considering going back to college for a different degree, but all-in-all, I did not like most of my teachers.
Every art class I ever took only had us make realism for 99% of the time. When it wasn't realism, it was abstract art. I've been told so meny times that my artwork isn't realistic enough. Oddly enough My graphic design teachers don't focus on realism and they even allowed me to make Sonic The Hedgehog fan art for some projects. Overall what they care about is if I met the criteria, conveyed the purpose of the design properly, and if it looks good.
I don't know why, but this video reminded me of the time the Lourve created an exhibit where they would request several different artists to allow them to show their works, with all of them being European (4 French and 1 Belgian) except for one... that being a Japanese artist whose style was derived from many forms of European art such as several famous European statues (such as the works shown in the Vatican) and European fashion artists... and an artist who made it so that most of the Western world would have seen his art inside a museum along other famous artworks and did so without the knowledge of his original fan base in Japan all so that the European art snobs would see his work first as art and not from its original context... It was only because of all of this effort that the artist was able to get the recognition of his work as "fine art" instead of a "silly little japanese comic book" ... And just to make everything clear.... Yes... this is none other than a Mother FLIPPIN' JoJo refrence... I have but one last thing to say here, to the fabulous artist that is one Hirohiko Araki... ...Shine On, You Crazy Diamond...
It's sad how long it takes to make a change, but hopefully one day art schools improve their policies a bit and all four nations, I mean, artstyles will live in harmony.
I mean it's WAY better than it was when I was in highschool 10 years ago, but 10 years is still quite some time and there's a long way to go. I'd love if all the art styles could live in harmony (:
I’m currently about to enter my grad year (AKA Gr 12, yAy), and when I was in Gr 11 my art teacher gave us a painting assignment which was we had to look up an artist and then replicate the art style. I chose my Dad (as he’s an artist), who does contemporary art, I did the painting and my art teacher loved it. Probably, because he’s not an old traditional man in his 50s (he’s probably in his 40s).
Some beginner artists don't think in 3d yet and the appearance of simplicity that anime styles can have will keep the artist in that state for longer than they should be. That's like, the only time I do think it's valid for a teacher to push a student to try other styles. But they have to point out how the anime art style is feeding into their bad habits, instead of just saying "anime bad".
Even more, the main idea of anime in a style is to be an image that is easy to cut out of paper like a sticker. If you fully realize this, you will understand why art teachers don't like this style.
@@Slawa_Saporogez Source: trust me bro Good anime art is made while being aware of 3D space. You're straw-manning anime and manga to what middle schoolers with no friends draw, not the actual art form it is. For christ's sake, just like, go watch Evangelion or some shit, anime has fine artistic value and proper art techniques in it's DNA.
The problem with this reasoning: those teachers that are fine with western cartoons while dismissing anything related to anime. It's a problem because both styles include plenty of shortcuts to speed up the work flow, hence both styles can feed into those bad habits you are talking about. Learning the basics and mastering the foundational skills will always be beneficial, regardless what style of art you ultimatively aiming to perfect and sell later on.
Not really... I have a photo graphic memory and a multi dimensional process in how I draw to put it all together. It got boring, fast, because I mastered it as a kid. Designing upon the 3rd Dimension is but a whim for me.
First video I see from this creator, love the model. Its not just a live2d image you see usually and really reminds me of ps1/ps2 era of games. I use my hands a lot while talking so seeing a model being able to do this is great and fun
I am so thankful my art professors are open to any medium as long gas you rest out a variety of techniques, it has been some of the most fun and informative classes I've ever had. From lessons on perspective, to testing different kinds of clay, to experimenting with colours and styles
There is definitely hope! I am in my 4th year of Sheridan college in the animation program. While I would suggest avoiding anime when making your application because some of the people judging might be snoody about it, but once you are in, YOU CAN DRAW AS MUCH ANIME AS YOU WANT! So many of my peers draw anime and a lot of the teachers absolutely LOVE anime, one of them even worked on anime in Japan. Even the older teachers that aren't fond of anime have accepted that anime is mainstream and have accepted it. I have never heard of anyone losing marks for drawing anime, aside from life drawing, for obvious reason. I think times are changing since I know that a decade ago, this was not the case. I do recommend trying different styles along the way though so you can have a broader range which will give you a better chance for finding employment due to the state the industry is right now. ALSO keep in mind that if you want to work on anime in Japan, the pay is awful and you will be worked to the bone, you will be doing it for the passion, not the pay.
my high school art teacher actually liked my anime art style she still taught western realist art like you mentioned, but her thinking was that all artists had to start somewhere, and that's generally the western realist mastercopies. i agreed with her. look at some of picasso's old art. he didn't just grab his iconic style out of nowhere, he had to start somewhere. i think one time she said that if I learn the western realist stuff, it could help me improve my anime art style, bc I could grab techniques taught from the class into my own art.
My 2nd year art prof was a professional animator and was surprisingly flexible when it came to what you did when the assignment wasn't life drawing or realism because as far as she was concerned, if you were improving your shading, perspective, anatomy, and all the other "official" stuff, it was going to improve your entire body of work. Head of the Art Dept, however, still has an amazing ability to put what he sees onto a page or canvas and really preferred we stuck to the course materials, and that's why he's still doing shows in galleries.
I had a HORRIBLE art teacher in 9th grade. She wanted us to learn everything and realizing before doing anything stylized. She made me almost hate my own art for other reasons. She just hated kids in general I guess😭 but at 19, I’m still drawing art! She didn’t win❤ thank you for talking about this
this genuinely opened my eyes both as an adult who does freelance , and sort-of healed my younger teen self who was consistently discouraged for having an "anime art style" , and even flat out rejected by an art high school because of it. we need MORE open minded teachers and curriculums because what was once never considered is now much more mainstream and common no matter where you look. this video made me more inspired to continue pursuing freelance art and feel comfortable in what i do, even if it's for fun
One of my few issues with the "I just want to draw anime/anime is my style" students is that many don't want to learn the basics first. Anatomy, lighting, composition, color theory, etc... As the old saying goes, "you gotta know the rules before you can break them." After that, use those tools to create the art you want!
This, absolutely this. A lot of kids are really stubborn about their art, and don’t understand that class is not necessarily where you go to learn how to do things in the specific way you want to do them. That and they often get all too attached to really bad habits and skills with the excuse that it’s their style… Then complain that they’re not improving like they want to. Like you don’t sign up for a writing class expecting to be able to pass by only turning in Naruto Fanfiction. Stylization is a skill on its own, but it’s based on, ultimately, realism and basic design principles. Though on the other hand some teachers overstep by not just banning anime in the classroom (which makes sense to a point) but also targeting, demeaning, and/ or harassing students for having it in their personal work.
I mean to even draw a gud "anime" like artstyle u do need good understanding of anatomy, composition, lighting either way. Otherwise it won't turn out good at all. That's y u won't like it either way whether it's anime like or nah
I was that kind of student, what helped me was considering the style of drawing I like as a book. There is nothing wrong with having my drive for writing being to write a particular genre of book. However no matter how much I'm want to write that book - I'm going to need to learn how to write letters, words and sentences. Learn the foundations and how to apply them quickly, then draw whatever I want.
I feel like that can apply to more than just those that draw anime. Basics are annoying for everyone. But everyone who wants to improve in art will subconsciously learn the basics enough to create what they want. Not everything has to be learned at the same time aha.
In 9th grade I practically lost the joy I had for drawing after having it thoroughly pummeled out by the demands of that school and its courses. I had to do art for every class, and in the titular art class I was practically bullied by the teacher for drawing anime style. Before then I used to go through two of three 50-page drawing notebooks per semester, I was about 15 back then. I'm 23 years old now and while I still carry a drawing notebook whenever I go to any class, I have not changed that notebook since 11th grade, and its not even halfway used... It really hurts wanting to draw and having all these ideas for what I want to draw, but I genuinely struggle putting pen to paper now. I have all these ideas in my head but I just can't put them to paper like I used to anymore... Sorry for the textwall btw, I also wanna say I really like your model, it looks adorable and the mushroom design is something I really love!
I also see a lot of people (teens mostly) encountering bad grades or unapplicable grading from "anime art" Fanart or even OC art because they didn't follow directions of the assignment. Its verry simple but its a lot of it. I think a lot of educators even mislabel the issue because its easier to steer them away from the issue than the student putting in the extra effort to do it creatively or them thoughouly explainling why. (especially at basic art classes in high schools as an example) (a decent percentage even end up ignoring any further critiques or grades proclaiming the teacher is just jealous and they are way better than them. Witch ultimately doesn't help either party) Its definitely a issue that need to be talked about in the art world. So far my least enjoyable professor was an art appreciation teacher, she was a gallery artist type who degraded people who post art online or do things digitally or art from their phones. She had other issues but woo wee thease type are a pain.
I had a lot of teachers like this. the way they chose to present the critiques (anime bad) is what lead me away from pursuing art at all; instead of simply pointing out to me where i was missing the point of the assignment/lesson.
That's just a curriculum problem. They should stop setting assignments that make students feel uninspired. That happened to me, I loved writing as a young teenager, but years of "do what we tell you" writing tasks caused my hobbies to shift to less restrained places.
@@yurisei6732 Even the state board of education can't overrule federal curriculum standards that require that the subject of fan art be pre-1929. (See: Title 17, United States Code)
@@DamianYerrick Oh I was meaning in the UK, the US has way bigger problems to sort out before it can worry about how many young artists it's not creating.
I literally don't have the spirit to draw anymore, cuz of my high school art teacher. I rember trying as hell to draw something good that i came up with. But every time "it wasn't good enough" without telling what is wrong. She literally dismissed my every drawing just 'cause I did it in my way. So then I found some photo on the net, copied the main lines and put the same colour. She approved. No creativity since, just copy existing thing and get high grade. No wonder several years later i'm unable to come up with perspective or any vision on my own. What's the point of art classes if all you do is teach how to copy and paste?
When I was in collage the art teacher I had was okay with anime artstyles. However the students that did anime artstyles tended to be the shittiest students. Like using anime as a historic artstyle because "you don't have to draw realistic looking people", or just tracing panels from a manga and saying it is their own creation. It was really sad that their "anime is the best artstyle in the world" rubbed of on some students, like drawing a character in a realistic or god forbid western artstyle would get you bullied in class critique.
i wonder if it's like this in the UK? i'm scared to go to an art college (Not university - it's basically high school in the UK) as I'm worried they'll just be like "DO OIL PAINTINGS OF FRUITS!!!!" so Hmm
I have no doubt you'll be doing oil/charcoal sill life work regardless of where you go to school, that's pretty standard curriculum 😭 There's a lot to learn from doing that kind of work that can still make your other artwork stronger! But believe me when I say that it bores me to tears to have to do or teach too
Hi! UK art grad here. It will depend on the course and teachers honestly. An IB Visual Arts course, which is what I did, is more freeform than an A-Level Fine Art course. was the pannacotta when I was in sixth form, so I didn't know nor care about their views on anime art.
Obviously depends on the college and the teacher, but for me: (I take a level fine art and a level graphic design) the start of the course was pretty controlled, but once you start your personal investigation it became open to whatever you want to do
It’s nice to know things are getting better since my last year art teacher referenced anime many times during class and even showed his fanart during class as art examples
Through the lens of a career (and lets be real, if you're going to school for anything it's probably related to a career you want to pursue), belittling and disparaging any kind of art, especially fan art and and anime, is among the worst things an art educator can do. Fanart often lands careers in art, because employers want to see what you can do and have something to compare it to. If you show an the picture of Aerith that was in the bg of this video and include the source material, that has WAY more value in a lot of industries that a portrait of an OC, or random model. The value in taking someone else's idea and creating something powerful, interesting, or useful is literally what an employer wants to see. Because that's probably going to be your job. Someone will say "I want this" and you make it for them and they pay you. And anime is a BOOMING industry, just as you showed in the video. There's tons of opportunity to be had in anime styles. My wife is a full time illustrator with a style that grew from anime when she was in school. Her teachers always told her she'd never have a career if she did anime and it would teach her bad habits and ruin her style. And she got out of school and has been professionally drawing anime and hyper stylized anime-esque illustrations since literally right after school. It was easier for her to find clients than anyone she knew doing traditional European art. I seriously think that teachers and the administration that does the portfolio and accreditation should be required to interact with the industries they're preparing students for. Like in STEM, and especially trade schools, there's often regular times when people from different industries will at least send reviews, memos, or hopefully meet in person to discuss the needs of their industry and insure that students are actually being guided in a direction that will be useful when they graduate. I get the feeling that that doesn't happen in art schools, because traditionalist would be shaking and foaming at the mouth.
I'm glad you reminded people to Pass their classes. Self-righteousness can end up hurting yourself if you don't know when to slow down and use patience.
This isn't about the education system and culture, but a professional one. I didn't stay in animation for long (for a variety of reasons but largely because being an animator in a third world country SUCKS), but I've worked for both western animation and anime-style animation studios. It's interesting how both "sides" tend to look down on the other, and often have the same arguments against the other. I definitely didn't stay long enough to be able to properly talk about it (or even how deep it runs) but it's still a weird and interesting observation.
I teach character design for western animation and I don't recommend a lot of books on it because they LOVE to slip in snide remarks about other styles, I've definitely seen what you mean
One is realism that emphasize the outstanding techniques and attention to details, the other is simplification that focusing on the beauty and exaggerate the emotion, both take a different set of skills but overall using the same fundamentals, they might argue that this is too boring or that is too simple(or I maybe wrong).
@@daiman_SX0 The funniest complaint that both sides have is that the other is way easier to animate and thus requires less skill. When really it's just a matter of emphasizing on different aspects of animation a majority of the time 🥲
I consider myself one of the lucky ones. My middle school art teacher drew newspaper comics and has his own comic published with anime style art. He was also advisor to the anime and manga club. He even had a lecture on how to make manga at the local library. But he never covers manga and anime style in class. During club time, yes, but in class, no. It's been years, but I recall him putting an emphasis on learning to draw realism to get better and get the basics down. One time after high school, I met him again and asked how to draw hands. He told me to use my smartphone to take pictures of my own hands and draw them.
“What is a biblical painting if not fanart for the bible?” 👏👏👏🗣️🗣️🗣️ ‼️‼️‼️
not just that huge parts of modern christian beliefs comme from biblical fanfictions like Dante's Inferno
Holy shit their right!
It’s more worship art than fan art
@@bibuleit’s fan art to God and Jesus
@@bibule ok, my project SEKAI fanart is worship art of Nene Kusanagi
If an art teacher tells you to not draw anime... Tell them that the anime, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, was featured at the Louvre Museum... The same Louvre that houses the Mona Lisa.
its true araki is litterally peak
so next to the Mona Lisa theres Lisa Lisa, lol
@@sariarosegold is there a Mona Mona, that definitely sounds like a jojo character
all those art professors can feed on that. i'm drawing all the anime i want.
@@Avian_slimenot yet
I always say that your education doesn't begin or end when you're in class. If your teacher or professor doesn't want you to draw anime art or fanart for their class, then you should go home and draw anime art and fanart for yourself.
That's still absolutely true! They can't take what you do in your free time away from you
That is with everything. A good education is merely a preperation to give you some guidelines that you can fall back on. the real learning happens when you put the theory into application. Same with learning to drive, learning any skill for any job... For many jobs and skillsets you need to get additional training and study courses throughout your career to stay up to date on the latest developments. unfortunately students these days seem to think that getting a degree is where it all stops and then stop developing themselves. And with their pubescent youthful hubris they think that the degree means they're better/superior while in reality they're still dumb as f.
You can Learn/know (theory/academia) and by putting it into Practice (real application) it'll turn into Understanding (wisdom)
If you don't stay on top of this...your development is stunted. And so will you be as a human being.
@@GiblixStudiothat last part is words out of my mouth by learning in multiple ways they enhance what they have
yeah, heck with what your teacher thinks of your fan art, you have a right to make art of your favorite media and characters.
No, you should learn to take criticism and stop drawing infantile trash.
Art is art. As long as it's not AI generated, it's not an issue.
Or if it’s made by shadman🦆
@@UNDEADEXALTYok bluddy (you’re right though)
@@UNDEADEXALTYok but like what if shadman turned a new leaf and went to loli rehab or something
Nah, genAi is based tho
At least its not made by semidraws or that guy name blackwhiplash
Did you know? Vincent van Gogh got really inspired by Japanese art OF HIS TIME to a weeb level. If I got inspired by Louvre-featured artist Hirohiko Araki, screw you, I’m the real high art appreciator.
Japanese art was INCREDIBLY influential to the Impressionist movement!!
@@squiiji3D EXACTLY!! And, it's my favourite historical European movement as well because Monet and van Gogh knew their colours from the art that inspired them. Ignoring Japanese influence on Impressionism is the same poison as ignoring the West African influence on Jazz.
Araki mentioned 🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥
@@LueKiro JoJo and Xsnoblade have become my autistic special interest/brainrot. Also, Hirohiko Araki cites master studies as a good practice, and I believe that a master can be many different artists. I mean, in terms of animated art styles, I believe one can study Frieren and Steven Universe for different elements, like the drawing of fabric and close-ups of faces in Frieren is actually masterful, and the colours of Steven Universe aged so well, it has the perfect skies.
@@corrinflakes9659 definitely agree with you! Araki has a beautiful artstyle and his work is incredible. My artstyle has been partly influenced by his.
I remember an art teacher saying "look, i know you want to draw anime, but if you don't learn proportions how are you going to experiment with MODIFYING proportions? You'll end up stuck with what you know and never improve"
It took me a while to stop hating her, but I'm glad i heard her tbh. She didnt want me to stop drawing my way, but to learn perspectives and improve, maybe use these new things i learned on my stylised art later.
Art teachers can be the worst.
I remember one in particular… she was kind of insane.
First she told us to copy a photo (not even a painting, an actual *photograph!)* and then color it however we’re feeling right now. It was.. somewhat interesting? But then she legit went around class making suggestions as to which colors would be better!
The “best” part? I used nothing but basic pencil for it, just shading stuff because I really like black and white aesthetic. She came up to me and *demanded* that I use colored pencils, too. Naturally, I told her “You said to do it based on how we’re feeling.” Her response? “You CAN’T be feeling like this!”
It was both hurtful, because how dare you, but also kind of funny because.. how does one actually say something that stupid with a straight face?
“You CANT be feeling like this!”i am depressed 😭
@@defokochu defoko pfp
Did you say what you experience to the principal cause if so please tell me the reaction
@@ChurroFujisaki_BEWR i love Utau defoko
I'm sorry you experienced that. Having such a demoralizing person in charge of teaching people about art [which is arguably the one subject taught in school driven more or less completely by passion] is such a dumb choice. You'd think that schools would make an effort to hire teachers who would help students on their educational/creative journey, but no. Instead we have people like your teacher, who apparently can't accept that others don't feel what she feels 🙄
The irony is that van Gogh, Manet, Édouard Monet, Claude Monet, Edgar Degas and others were inspired a whole lot by japanese art, so much so it became a whole movement.
The influence of eurocentric art has also manifested itself in Asia, altho rarer to find for example: Araki, the author of JoJo's Bizzare Adventure has stated that he was highly inspired by european art.
Honestly i have never experienced this neither in Grade School or High School, because atleast from Brazil's curriculum art classes are more like history of art.
I was once told western Disney-like animation was better than anything anime could do in my high school animation course. My counter argument was basically: “yutaka nakamura exists”
Omds he's an amazing artist!
Oh boy don't get me started on this, I taught at an animation school w/ ex-Disney faculty
@@squiiji3D omg Squiiji!
I feel as the Disney or the "Cal-Arts" style gets bland overtime if we don't usually expand our horizons as artists to make something visually unique and that's what strikes me in the wrong direction when disney gets more praised when there're other various unique styles visually outside of that.
@@supermarketone clearly, they have never seen Death Note or Hellsing Ultimate.
Just remember Hirohiko Araki (creator of jojo’s bizarre adventure) has art in the same museum as the mona lisa
Yes
Or in other words, JoJo’s bizarre adventure is considered to be among the apex of fine art.
Wait WHAT?! What art pieces?
@@carshowprince2 Rohan at the louvre
@@OGAnimationsForYou Wow! It looks beautiful!
From my high school classes, I was supeeeer scared to draw anime in College. A lot of my college peers drew it, but I thought I couldn't for whatever reason. One day though one of my teachers was really supportive. He actually listened to where I wanted to go in art, which was storytelling mediums, such as manga, webtoon, etc... Which you know, stylization makes a lot of sense in those mediums. He even let me borrow Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics. He was my favorite art teacher, and I always will remember him.
Oo I always highly recommend Understanding Comics for my Graphic Novel Class! I'm really happy for you that you've found more support for your interests in college now (:
If possible, I also highly recommend Scott McCloud's other book: Making Comics. IIRC that book and a other comic go into detail about manga.
@@JLCL01 He let me borrow 3 of his books, I think it might have been one of them? I kind of lumped them all together as a series though so I'm not sure
I ain't gay but is he single?
@@Inquisitive06 he had a wife and also was almost near his retirement age haha
One of my old Art Teachers, She really liked all type of art, Anime, Fan-Art, or any type of art, she used to always say that art isn't one style.
She was/is a true artist!
FINALLY, SOMEONE WHO SPEAKS MY MIND! I feel like the Western sphere of art education is extremely narrow and full of pretentious old people who believe they know everything about art. It’s because of these types of people that I feel like art isn’t taken seriously outside of communities specifically surrounding art.
Unchecked bias is the root of ignorance and close-mindedness. To anybody who find this comment, please, always keep an open view of the world, and please stay humble about the art or craft you practice.
It is SO narrow depending where you go. They've been teaching the same curriculum since the 80s or 90s, which was already outdated, and still refuse to broaden their horizons ):
@@squiiji3D I am so happy that there is someone out there that knows better. You have my full support!
anime is trash
@@mrosskne One word: "Akira."
@@darlalathan6143 Trash
If your art style gets you rejected from art school, just become a politician
or become like a certain austrian painter
There's a reason why there's so many trash modern paintings that sell for millions 💀
And kermit sewerslide in 1945
…
To rule the world.
In the 9th grade, I had this very old and strict art teacher. Living-fossil years old I mean.
Somehow, he was the most okay with the anime style out of every other teacher I had which were much younger than him. The only thing he wasn't a fan was drawing characters with one eye covered by the hair.
That's fantastic! One of my colleagues I convinced to be more fanart/anime positive also fits into that category, I figure these guys remember when other mediums and styles of art were rejected before becoming integrated into fine art and are expecting it to wind up going the same way with anime.
I agree with that teacher. It's lazy as fuck unless that character has an actual reason to have one eye covered. It's sign of a beginner, because usually it's difficult for a beginner artist to draw both eyes and make them look "right"
Really? Do you know why he disliked that particular trope?
@@guikoi3101 He lived most of his life in a world with stricter rules. By that I mean a country under a communist regime. Children were in big troubles if they were not respecting the school uniform, like being forced to stay on their knees on nutshells. Young adults were at risk of being taken by police and forcefully shaved if their hair was too long. Acts of rebellion were frowned upon back then and having your hair covering an eye will be the kind of nonconformism that was equivalent with rebellion.
@@Kiwi-Araga Or like any other very conservative country back in the day. Or even today.
Short answer: Art teachers aren't telling you to never draw anime and fan art at all ever, they're telling you to not draw **only** anime or fan art. Only drawing anime without knowing how the real human body works will lead to inconsistencies and mistakes, and it's usually used as a crutch. They teach realism to get you used to the basics before you put a twist on them, as well as to improve your observational and technical skills. To draw original works and not only to draw fan art will improve your creativity and help you improve your design skills as well. Although I do feel that it's stupid to say that all anime art is bad or all fan art is bad, I do understand why assignments usually don't accept fan art (and depending on the class, anime). And this is coming from someone who is absolutely terrible at drawing realism (although I don't exactly draw anime).
In my 2023-2024 school year, I had 2 art classes: One (Studio Art) was focused on realism and traditional art. The other (Adobe Visual Design) was focused on graphic design and digital art. For the Studio Art class, we were only allowed to draw realistically so that we learned the fundamentals, however focus and effort was also part of the grade. The other allowed any art style, as long as you were anatomically correct, regardless of stylization, and put effort into it, you got a good grade. I feel like having one art class for realism and another that allowed stylization is a perfect compromise.
Im from Southeast Asia, im thankful that my art education is open to EVERY STYLE, anime included. Even when u draw cartoon western cartoon, they'll still accept it. Of course we still learn from historical artwork as a standard
That's so awesome, I'm a bit envious! I'm glad you're getting a much more well rounded education
@@squiiji3D in my country, everything can can
Me too from Philippines. My schools also gave us creative freedom with any artstyle we wanted to draw, and is a relieved W
My condolences to western/non-Asian artists affected by bad western school system tho- 🙏
OH NY LORDY IM SO RELIEVED RIGHT NOW
@@alyasVictorioGood thing I'm from Philippines... If I could just get into art school :]
Yours is legit the first vtuber model that I've seen use their arms and hands. That's so cool
Sameee it's soo cool 🤩
Im putting this so I can see my comment
Dang it- I still can see it
Nicee i can see it now 🤩
It’s really interesting that art from around the world is being written off.
The Great Wave from Japan is at least as iconic as Starry Night. Thought there would be more prevalence of works like that in Fine Arts.
I have a Master's in Printmaking and NEVER ONCE in my art history classes (which, I also have an art history minor) were we taught a single non-European print despite Mokuhanga being invented in Japan and inspiring ALL of the European printmakers 🥲
@@squiiji3D In my art and art history classes, we were taught about Hokusai, and the famous "Great Wave" picture. I also took courses in African, Pacific Islander, and Asian art.
And I don't understand that either, because aren't they supposed to be...art teachers? That'd be like if your whole job was to teach people how to write in certain ways, but you refused to acknowledge poems, especially in an age where people almost all over the world can consume art from almost anywhere in the world
My animation history professor in college doesn't hate anime, there's a week module literally dedicated to Japanese animation.
It's just that she says anime isn't realism, and that artists should learn realism before going into stylized.
That would be my approach tbh.
I had a teacher in college ( looked exactly like the dark haired guy on the left in the middle at 1:47 ) who said that "Unless you're asian you should NEVER draw anime." And implied that anime looking anything will always get an F in his class.
We had only one Asian girl in our class who had an "anime" style and he properly graded and critiqued her work. Anyone else got a huge lecture about how bad they were.
He was a crazy, r@cist misogynist though so, while shocking, it wasn't too surprising coming from him. 🤷
Great vid as always! 🍄💕
That is ABSOLUTELY WILD and he is exactly the kind of educator I was talking about (funny that I nailed his likeness too), I'm so sorry that y'all had to put up with him ):
lol same :D but he was bald-
Was he at least eventually fired?
ain't no way
art culture appropriation
if someone said that to me i would say 'jokes on you because i am an asian'
As a fellow art educator, I mostly agree with what you're saying. I LOVE animation and have a healthy appreciation for Anime. Being an older animator, though, I came up in an era when getting work in anime was nearly impossible unless you were Japanese and lived in Japan. Outside of that was never heard of. Now, things are changing, and you have more options, and studios are more open. But, the mentality is still there among older instructors. Does that need to change? Yes, but that falls under what you've already discussed.
The other point that I'd like to raise is that in our program, we find that if anime is accepted... it's all we get. Which can pigeonhole our students' abilities. Students can be absolutely amazing at Anime style but can not recreate another art style. This can (not always, but can) limit your prospects when looking for work. That's not just for anime, though. If your strength is in Comic book style or Cal Arts (ugh, I hate using that term) but you're weak in other styles, that's a limit that should be overcome.
What I tell my students is to think of me as an art director. I have a specific style that I need to see and requirements for the assignments that need to be met. In your personal work, do whatever you want! Create an entire portfolio of anime and manga styles. Hell, on a personal level, I would LOVE to see what you create! But, for these anatomy studies, I need to see realism. For the character design assignment, do not use an already-established art style.
It's not always about us "hating anime" and it's also not a personal attack on your style. Does that happen? Unfortunately, yes. Still, sometimes, we're trying to teach you concepts that may make your personal work stronger.
And yes... the end goal is to pass your classes. You have to choose your battles. Sometimes, it's better to just pump out what they want to see and move on. You can still create whatever you want on your own.
My traditional printing professor in high school didn't forbid us from doing anything but he was very open about disliking anime, mostly because in his view it all looks too same-y. He really valued variety, and even if there are many anime artstyles, they're still simplified in rather similar ways especially for the prupose of animation. Similar feet and palms and the way the hair is drawn, that's what he was not down for; that was the only direct anti-anime at school I came across.
But art school and university killed my drive for art in general even when they weren't restrictive - it's the weight of being always under 100% scrutiny and nothing ever being good enough. Even when you get top grades, it's rare to come across kind words. Still somehow got my masters degree in mix of art/education/psychology after sitting in 6 years of art middle school and then going straight to masters degree and it keeps being weirdly useful to me, which is the biggest surprise of my life lmao. I still do art and earn money via it, but it became way more difficult vs my 15yo self who was drawing just for the joy of it 24/7.
I can understand the logic your teacher is using, but I won't say I agree with it. If he was into variety, I'd hope he was a HUGE fan of western cartoon styles because they really nail that aspect, taking variety to a level far surpassing reality.
I didn't really get into the complaints/reasons teachers give for disliking anime on a technical level because it almost always just boils down to them enforcing their opinion onto their students. I'm glad your professor at least didn't stop you guys from doing that.
And BOY do I feel you about art programs being restrictive, I just finished my Master's and I really want to know who thinks that having people breathing down your neck while you create is the best way to make great work 😅
I had SOME supportive professors, but not many, so I'm trying to provide the support and positivity that many of us never recieve
At least he just stated his point and didn't force anything onto us so I can respect that hah. And I doubt he liked even cartoons, but during high school specifically we mainly focused on various printing techniques during his lessons rather than what we were illustrating with them so I didn't have much insight into that, aside from that one talk about anime.
I think you are doing a great job with balancing education with support! At least on your channel 💛
Also I so related to the last segment about having good intentions but being shackled by the system. I was invited to start getting my doctorate, which here is useful only for working at a university, aside from just having bragging rights, aaanddd... I really didn't want to do that. I love students, but aside from the strict program I'd have to now abide by, in my country to keep your position you need to gather points, and in the art fields they consist mostly of having your art in exhibitions. And during my 5 years at uni I truly grown to hate them (too circle-jerky and made just for the sake of getting some points). For not-art university workers you just have to keep writing books and articles to be published too, so it feels like an endless cycle of homework instead of focusing on your work as an educator.
That teacher should see One piece and Dragon ball. There is so much variety into anime styles ass well even tho there are some general things. I think anime suffers at least partly from what I'we heard about some peopple say about that (insert a race) peopple look the same to the peopple that are (insert a different race of humans) just because peoples palettes aren't used to them.
About well gate keeping of anime-style I think I'we run into "anime is a japanese animation, why are you an european trying to do that? It's not our culture so you can't be a real anime artist." Or it might be just my own head canon from the way anime was described to me back in the day combined with some art teacher vibes... still drawing in anime style because I just can't help it tho xD
@@Meewy I was lucky to never feel a twinge of racism honestly or european glazing at school; they would just way rather us learn from let's say indigenous paintings vs anything animation honestly (or just anything pre-simplified, even drawing from photos was forbidden because it simplified 3D space into 2D already), especially when it came to traditional drawing lessons vs lessons about illustration or character design, that's two different beasts. The older I grew the more I got why they try to teach us realism when we're young so we have a good basics so then we can truly freely choose how to stylize what we know to be real, but it's little ironic cuz the younger you are the more you just want to draw cartoon characters that you grew up loving ahah. I am devil's advocate here, but I also kinda get why even open minded teachers getting a little tired when MOST of their class wants to stylize in this one trend (anime) just because it became popular in recent 20 years with the younglings. I think it's fair to require realism in drawing from life classes, but anything should be allowed in illustration/character design if you can justify why use this style to convey this and that etc.. (idk how it's everywhere else, but over here the justification for why you do things the way yoiu do is like 50% of the work 😭). Tbh anime is not the only disliked style, my friend who studied animation specifically, said they would just fail you if you drew in typical disney style. Sometimes it's just this snotty need to create only "high art" and all these artstyles are just not what they would consider that.
to be fair.... anime does look very samey and is relatively simple to draw compared to other art styles. the relative simplicity makes it also more accessible to more people to draw it. and let's be honest... unless you are a Ghibli or Toriyama with a very distinct style...you are most likely looking very similar to the next person drawing anime. Even anime shows and JRPG's these days are looking more and more the same and indistinguishable from one another. Since the art style is kept simplistic it can be mass produced quickly and thus loses its soul even more. thus making me gradually lose interest in watching modern day anime and instead go back to the older ones that I grew up with. Ghost in the Shell is still my favorite.
My high school senior art teacher, surprisingly enough, didn't even hate anime. She had how to draw anime books in her classroom, and even put on Studio Ghibli movies on in class when we worked on our projects. She was also my favorite teacher in high school too. She let me sit in her classroom during lunch, since I had lunch right after my art class and let me watch movies like Spirited Away
the worst thing an 'anti anime' teacher ever did to me was manage to trigger my ahdh defiance. "Dont draw anime" huh? Fuckin try to stop me now loser i will tank my grade and take it as a point of pride!.... and as a result learn so many horrible bad habbits all because i was told 'anime bad!' instead of 'you should really focus on basics first'.
anime is trash
@@mrosskne You're trash :)
@@mrosskne proof?
@@mrosskneme when cognitive dissonance
@@mrosskne how and why is anime bad, yes there's alot of bad anime but isn't that same thing with anything else, like comic books, movie, music, books, games and alot more. So answer or are you doing this for attention
My hs art teacher asked me once "What's this character from?" (It was Soul Eater fanart)
"That's fine but is it only Soul Eater or are /you/ being represented? What personal spin can you put on it?" Or something along those lines. She was really nice about it.
The eurocentrism, racism, classicism, is why I hate the academic art world and ended up not pursuing art, although that what everyone expected me to do. Especially how traditional and modern art world keeps gatekeeping non-western artists and their masterpieces from entering the global art platform. It gets my blood boiling
??? Are you dumb? You go to far for nothing man
Several of my art teachers hated anime art and realism both, which, quite frankly (especially in combination) often feels borderline targeted against neuro-divergent students. I think you're right in that most of it stems from Eurocentrism, but that also comes with an element of "forced meaning", where a minimum level of abstraction and applied meaning is demanded.
Traditional Art Teachers: No Anime Allowed! 😡
Anime & Fan Artwork: Don't Hate Me Cause I'm Beautiful! 😂
But on a serious note, I'm so glad my professor allowed me to draw in an art style that suits me
Theres a very similar issue over in the UK as well, but it isnt as bad, high school has you building up to making an art piece for 10 hours for your GCSE exam but from what ive heard from my friends (Not an art GCSE holder here lol - I did comsci) they were pretty lenient, but we’re still taught by the traditionalists that rule the school system in terms of art, luckily, i am in college now, and my current teachers (games art and animation student here) are both in their 20s and both have portfolios on artstation that you can check out with both of them having been in the games industry, i was scared to bring up anything remotely anime when we were asked to bring up any 3d models we find inspiring, but i did and all they said was that they hoped they coild help me get my 3d modelling from a complete newbie modeller, to being able to get to the place that inspires me, which is why i feel lucky to have them as teachers :D
Glad to see you be frank about the more difficult topics centered on this issue. Because unfortunately you do see it online as well and it's more than likely a result of people taking these messages from art schools a little too close to heart. Another great video!
Thank you! I've felt VERY strongly about this while teaching at the university level, I'm at least hopeful for the future at least as younger generations are more open minded on these topics but it's a rough system to try and learn or thrive in sometimes in the meantime
in online communities the vitriol isn't from old traditionalists but from insecure bitter people that feel better about themselves by putting others down.
I noticed with a lot of the younger people ... they lack the skill of thinking for themselves and figuring out how things work. So they need more stricter handholding and more stricter methods that can be used. especially among the self taught individuals. when you tell them that a cartoon character has to be measured by "length of the drawn head" and use 8,5-9 heads of height for the entire character. then they'll cling to that like a damn autist and anyone who deviates even a smidge they'll then call names in their online communities. It is a shame to see.
I had a college professor tell me that taking that route was the laziest path I could take in drawing.
This man was an abstract artist 🗿 but was teaching web design and some other random art classes.
Coincidence maybe, but my first Foundations of Drawing teacher was a huge nerd, and my second year teacher was an abstract modern artist. The second year my love for art was so damaged I never fully recovered. Like the second she found out what I was into, she pre-decided that I wasn't worth it. So it was a double-whammy of having my interests torn down while also never being good enough at something I was previously talented at. It's not like I wasn't following instructions, either. I only veered in that direction on my own time or if there was an open "free space" type of project.
I am a Japanese American artist, and I have always felt that anti-anime teachers had some racism behind them, of course as I am Japanese American, it is a personal matter for me, this made it harder going through the high school art system and will no doubt make it more difficult to go through art college (I start at KCAI in 6 days, wish me luck), thankfully the college I am going to seems to be an outlier as far as acceptance of Japanese art, they have a dedicated Asian studies minor that while I do think should be a bit more diverse, focuses a lot on Japanese art in its many forms, including anime, this place is also the only art school in the country that actually teaches Japanese, so I think I picked a pretty good option albeit the struggle will still be there
Oh cool, my older cousin’s starting her second year there.
@@mooniace972 nice! What's her name? Who knows she could be a potential friend of mine
Fight the power
@@Miraihi hell yeah
Facts just go to schools that are about u. Money holds power
Another reason why I think those styles are discouraged from students is because, as you mentioned, portfolios are looked over by traditionalists. They do not know what is an original anime style and what is an owned anime IP. So they’re not able to distinguish what’s an original idea and what’s not because they don’t watch the medium or interact with the medium. So they cover all their bases and ban all of it.
I had a teacher that absolutely destroyed my love of art. I love Pokémon and she told me to stop making Pokémon art and it just caused me to just not care about art anymore. Not being able to do what I loved completely seeped my enjoyment out of it and now I’m finally getting back into it as a hobby.
Did the argument go anything like this? "Stop making Pokémon art because Nintendo is not your friend."
Good for you for getting back into your hobby! I’m so proud of you for doing what you love! Pokémon is very fun!
One of my favorite things is when people make their own Pokémon and stuff. The art is always on neat!
Modern education is like that in general. Destroying the love for any subject.
Congrats 🎉 shine bright
detective pijachu
As someone curently getting an arts degree, I've decided that even if I'm not practicing in the styles I prefer, learning more traditional styles is still better for my art than not learning them. I see anime as an art style, yes, but also a lens through which other styles can be interpreted. Realism and impressionism are especially important to cartooning in general, and as much as I loathe it, "You have to understand the rules to break them properly" is a true statement. Even as a Junior, I still feel under-equipped in these departments. My understanding if realism is there, but my skill at it is very poor, and thats holding me back in thr stylization I want to create. So, like, if you're stuck in a curriculum that's preventing you from stylizing the way you want to, try to see it as practice rather than being discouraged. Your style will still be there when you're done, and it will be better.
Tradionalists: how DARE you try to have an informed debate in an academic setting! You will NEVER be accepted into an art university!
Anime fans: ok well if youre not teaching what i want to improve on anyway then ill just go to artists online courses and streams where i'll learn techniques and tips that will lead me to improve. And its going to be cheaper than university education anyway.
Traditionalists: WAIT NO WE NEED YOUR TUITION FEES TO FUND OUR SUMMER TRIP TO FRANCE!!!!!
I think some degree of "traditionalism" needs to exist in order to protect quality and standards. And as with everything... Too Much of anything becomes toxic, so apply moderation. We have over 15 years of examples in which "gatekeeping" has been taken down and the quality of the products and fandoms has deteriorated drastically. With those fandoms and products no longer delivering quality it means the original fanbase leaves and takes their money with them. While no meaningful new audience is being tapped into. As such those companies/products are failing constantly. Many companies going outright bankrupt. Yet bad faith actors will blame "bigotry" and other shortsighted childish name calling.
However any form of education needs to be in line with what the business sectors and industries require their future employees to have when it comes to skillsets. Problem that I see is that many educational facilities are not keeping up with the many new industries that have popped up. Art is no longer limited to mere galleries and high society. Games Industry needs artists, studio's that make comics and cartoon tv shows need artists, manga/anime studio's need artists. I can see that that study courses need to have a more traditional education to learn the techniques....however there needs to be space for more specialized courses to prepare and guide students towards the myriad of other directions. Also you need to be able to learn and apply different styles. Just look at various game/animation studio's where you need to be able to switch styles depending on the aesthetic for that particular product. Limiting yourself to learning only about one will only stunt your development, make you very narrowminded and reduce your chance of getting a job
@@GiblixStudiowell said my man
@@GiblixStudio Respectfully I don't think this is correct. The issue highlighted in the video is that anime-style work, regardless of its quality, is being rejected by art teachers in academia who do not like the style; this means that a person could hand in a top-quality piece of artwork done in an anime-style, and it would still be rejected. Therefore, it's hard to believe that this is simply a matter of maintaining the quality of the artwork being produced if the said quality is not considered in its rejection.
Further it does not seem to be the case that no new audience is being tapped into. As you yourself point out, there is a market and, subsequently, jobs available for artists with anime styles due to the enormous popularity of anime at the moment. So if the quality of the anime art is good and the demand is there, it doesn't seem to be the case that rejections of anime artwork in academia can be based on maintaining quality or ensuring that artists can then get work in the current setting.
As for learning the techniques, while I do admit the initial learning of these techniques may be easier when applied to the style that they were originally created for, this does not entail that they should not be used on other styles. There is no reason for me not to learn a specific style of shading from copying frames from an anime or pannels from a manga just because i learnt the learning technique from a class that focused on fruit. I am not rejecting learning the techniques from other styles, but if I want to learn how to draw in an anime style, I fail to see why studying examples from anime would not be the best course of action.
Additionally its important to note that the term 'anime' encompasses numerous art styles. The art style in Bleach's manga is vastly different to the art style in Bungo Stray Dogs's manga, so there is no reason why you cannot acquire the necessary skill set to learn new and different styles of art by studying different styles of manga and anime in opposition to different styles of realsim or abstract paintings.
In short, I don't deny that you can learn useful techniques from different art styles and those who came before you; you should; otherwise you would be reinventing the wheel every time you tried to figure something out. but the contents of the video are clearly not objecting to the idea of learning from past artists rather the fact that when these lessons are applied to an anime style in an academic setting they are rejected regardless of the quality of the piece produced.
Also, I should point out that unless you get the chance to apply these techniques and lessons to an anime style, you can't then ensure that the quality of that style remains high as your skills in one style do not immediately transfer over to another. An artist may be great at creating abstract depictions of people, but if they try to immediately translate those skills over to a realist style, it is unlikely that the skills they have would be able to create a good quality piece. If the setting you are in does not allow you to apply these techniques and seek feedback from professionals, then it is hard to learn what you are doing wrong and how you need to improve. So, in order to maintain the quality of the work being produced, it makes more sense to allow students to make works in an anime style so they can be critiqued and they can learn from their mistakes to ensure they do not repeat them.
It doesn't make sense to try to improve your skills in anime-style art by only painting realist stuff. Yes, you can learn things from it, but unless you apply those lessons to the anime style, it's not going to help you improve.
@@GiblixStudioacademia gatekeeps to hell...we won't have to worry about non gatekeeping probably ever.
It's the exact opposite of what u said really.
Yes it's nice to have historical precedent but acemdia is notoriously slolw
Online communities are vastly dif.
@@GiblixStudio
Nah... When I mastered photo realism as a child. This is nothing.
People call mimicking a photo original???... ... ... This is why video games have more promis in art than anything from the art industry in America. From the ground up.
Because often times, you need connections more than anything else because that's what the art industry is. Skill means nothing if drawing on paper is the only skill one has.
Without connections or an industry you can make from the ground up. Some kid in Asia can do it better.
I FORGOT TO COMMENT!
Thank you Professor Iiji for your lovely video! I think this is a great angle for your channel. I learned a lot about art school in this upload!
It reminds me a lot about being a viola performance major and doing so much classical music in my life. Professors focus so much on sticking to the classical repertoire that you often miss out on musician skills that you will need beyond orchestra such as the business end and playing things beyond European baroque, classical, and romantic music.
That is part of the reason why I learned vibraphone and played in Jazz ensembles, so that I could have a bit more freedom!
I’m actually very thankful for the art program at the university I attend. I was very pleasantly surprised that so many of my professors were open to students using anime and other simpler styles for assignments, heck we have a class entirely about anime. And I can tell a lot of the professors there are trying hard to include art from many continents and fight the Eurocentric tendencies of the art world. It gives me hope and I hope encourages more universities to follow.
Omg that's fantastic! That gives me a lot of hope too!!!
My art teacher said that a video of shaggy and carter dancing to macarena was art, I love her
So this kinda happened to me in 11th grade.
I drew an anime character for this art contest that my school hosted. Now, I know I made a couple of mistakes and maybe the background didn’t have to be blank but I thought I did good and they would see the improvement from last year’s work I did. They were blown away by another artist (which totally deserves the 1st place) that when they went to look at the anime art I did of the character, they had a hard time or rather they didn’t take it seriously, they were comparing it to the 1st place, didn’t really offer any constructive criticism to it (I was there for the judging since I had to help out. I didn’t tell them that I was the artist) they were hesitant to consider it art- and and what’s even more crazy is the previous year there was an western comic book style artwork there, got 2nd or 3rd for it.
When I saw this video, it made me feel not alone in this struggle. TvT
1:30 I had exactly one of those. He was also constantly talking about the architecture of Fachwerkhäuser. For some reason the only A I ever got was for a photograph. I literally piled some stuff up and edited the photo a bit while spending hours on some other assignments just to get Cs.
The problem with schools is that
1. they not not teach us alot about how to pay bills and taxes
2. they do not teach alot about fair use, copyright law and public domain- in some art classes they teach you how to copy but even that can be not benefical to create own art and it does not teach anything about fair use i think
For point number 1, do we really need to be taught bills and taxes? School teaches us math and how to follow step by step directions, pretty much all you need.
Our school makes a personal finance class mandatory and no one paid attention or cared
@@racool911 In contrast to your statement, you are correct but not all schools have this knowledge yet i think- I do not know whatever we have not been educated on it or the fact that we had not repeated the lesson everyday like I managed to learn how to structure point. evidence. explanation. develop for my english language and literacy exams. but i wanted to say thank you for your response. I still think they need to teach us fair use. Have a wonderful day
The school system in general is just retarded inside and out, it would be much better to let the STUDENTS decide what they wanna focus on learning, and instead of teaching them EVERYTHING at once, which overwhelms them, let them pick out classes they're interested in, which would allow to them to grow faster because they actually wanna learn.
Oh, they're picking classes that they're friends are picking? Good, let them suffer for not taking their life seriously.
(PS: I came up with this idea when I was FUCKING 12)
I meeeeaaaaan most people wouldnt listen anyway. YET AM NOT AGAINST IT DONT GET ME WRONG.
I mean you could just get really good math . Maybe it is a job in finance.
Having been though the 1st year of illustration uni where my teachers have constantly tried to mold my art into versions of theirs, ive came to the conclusion that the best teacher is one that helps you achieve your dreams rather than making you achieve theirs. My print making teachers allways listen to me then suggest ways to make my desired print better, my other teachers tend to shut down my ideas and just make me do theirs. They simply dont like certain forms of illustration, i want to do educational illustration but its not emotional and expressive enough for them.
Also i love that your an inkcap named after a squeegee its super cute and clever
I would love to talk about the video,,,
BUT YOUR MODEL OHHH MY GOD. THE SKIN COLORING, THE HAIR THAT SPLITS AT THE TOP LIKE A MUSHROOM SHOWING THE GILLS UNDER MORE CLEARLY! THE SHADING!!!
I am loving it! And you're not breaking the white-skin-white/platinum-hair rule you talked about before! The black hair/gills are like a barrier!
It's beautiful.
I wanna take a bite out of that hair
Ah thank you so much!! I'm so thrilled with my 2.0 model, I'm glad you like it too!
I thought the hair was supposed to resemble a Jellyfish, with the lil strands being the tentacles
@@geschnitztekiste4111 I wanna take a bite out of the hair
Vtubers have made the two-tone hair thing go mainstream and I'm absolutely here for it, it's awesome.
I don't know where to come in on this discussion as someone who typically draws in the Western animation style, but as far as I'm aware, my lecturers are alright with different styles. I start Character Design this semester so we'll see.
Going into college, I definitely drew in an anime-like style. And I definitely felt shamed by a majority of my art professors for doing so. But even when I tried to cater to their needs more, most of what I made seemed to be far from good enough. It took such a tool on me that I started to hate art all together, especially since I ended up failing out of my art degree despite all the work I put in.
That being said, having an educator like you would’ve been such a breath of fresh air. Maybe I could’ve had more art classes where I felt like I belonged. I wouldn’t be surprised if your students felt that way☺️
So thank you for this video. It gave me a reminder to keep healing my relationship with art and to feel no shame in how I draw🥹
And that's exactly what I want to avoid! What's the use in crushing someone's love for art, ESPECIALLY as an educator where your single role is to help your students succeed? I'm so sorry that you had to go through that, I hope you've been able to foster a love for art again and that you're enjoying whatever art style you like! And thank you, I'm glad I can give you that reminder (:
I’ve encountered a few people like that before, which includes my mom. She asked me while I was drawing some fan art of “Assassination Classroom” one time “Why don’t you draw something original instead?”, and I responded by saying “I don’t want to make original stuff all the time!” & that shut her up about it. People like her need to learn that not every piece of art has to be original works. Those master copies you were talking about are literal examples of that. Also I ain’t much of a “creative type”. I got an idea for a web comic & it’s literally best described by me as a “Scooby Doo rip-off”. I don’t really have much of a creative bone in my body.
Those Traditionalist you described sound like they are also just plain racist. They need to learn that there’s more than one art style through out the world.
Also I find realism rather boring. I love me some cartoonish art.
Unfortunately, my art teacher rejected me doing a stippling art project on a photograph of jun togawa in her classic lobster costume because it wasn’t “high definition enough”. Then I tried to do other iconic photos like the eyepatch cat one, or the cool cybernetic arm one, even her dragonfly one, or the pink dress, all rejected. I can make out her face good enough, most of the pictures are from the 80s… so I had to pick some random ass lady I didn’t want to draw.
i would have been pissed, i love the lobster look
In my experience the education industry doesn't care about what you want. (I was studying game development and every project was an argument with the school about art style)
Thank you so much for making this video! While I’m not an art major-too stressful for me, I still draw as a hobby occasionally though-in high school I did take one art class and sadly had an anti anime teacher. I wasn’t even super deep into anime at the time but I liked some game series with anime art styles and also just realized the double standards as my teacher was the second example of “cartoon art styles are okay but anime isn’t” This really annoyed me even if my style wasn’t really anime-even now it’s still cartoony-cause it didn’t make much sense to me as I found anime to be more of a accurate deception of anatomy then cartoons and always found the complaint about the face being very cherry picked. (Especially with more anime I’ve seen now, a lot of them aren’t bug eye) Obviously now I realize how anime and realism differ as anime still a very simplified version at the end of the day, but having that teacher for just one semester was super annoying and it made me glad I never took another art class. But I feel very validated thanks to this video since it’s nice to know why this stuff happens and I hope in the future this anti anime and fan art mindset can be erased completely.
In my middle school art class we had a sub that would come in quite frequently and everyone absolutely hated him, except for me and my friend. He used to teach art at a magnet high school in our area so he was VERY invested in what the sub plans were. If it were a simple worksheet, he’d change it to make it a whole lesson about anatomy or shading.
I would visit him after school and sit and chat in the classroom and we would talk for legit 15-45 minutes whenever we got the chance. It was great, but one of the things that he said that will ALWAYS stick with me. Is he said if you applying for an art program “DO NOT DRAW ANIME” or “We don’t wanna see anime”
At one point he was actually on the committee that decided which art applications were accepted into the magnet high school he worked at.
I tried to convey this info to my friends who drew in an anime like style but they got mad at me and didn’t listen.
Not a single one of them got accepted into the art program at the local magnet schools.
Exactly my point ): I'm so sorry that someone who was otherwise a positive mentor was perpetuating the stigma against anime styles, but it really is everywhere. He had the power to make a positive change instead of siding with the traditionalists when he was accepting applications, he should have used it
@@squiiji3Di think that is was he was warning that if they draw anime and less that they dislike it
My high school art teacher was so sweet! She encouraged me to continue my fanart as long as I challenged myself and don’t keep myself in a box. She’s also one of the nicest and sweetest person ever!
I had a teacher back in highs chool tell her class that drawing anime what so ever got you an automatic failing grade. I was only in that class for like one day before the school put me back in piano. From what I heard at least she got fired for tearing up a students sketchbook because it had anime sketches in it.
How do these psychos even get accepted as teachers lol
that honestly sounds so extreme it feels made up, anything else about this person?
Im no artist but aren't sketchbooks usually personal property? Not something the school supplies you with?
Oh god they'd be locking me up if anyone did that shit to my property
im glad and very grateful to have an art teacher who was willing to teach me every single tips and hacks in traditional AND digital arts, he is also teaching me the basics of color theory, lighting shades and stuff like that and also patterns since i told him i wanted to become a fashion designer
I was a weeb in school decades ago, and turned most of my school art projects into something anime, and my teachers were mostly cool with it. That said, I do think that it limited my long term development as an artist to "anime up" so many projects. I mean, if you like anime, do anime stuff, no harm there, but I would advise any learning artists to ALSO try to do whatever art styles the class is teaching. I guarantee you that trying to draw things in a realistic manner, or in some abstract style, or in other styles, it will improve how well you can draw anime characters too. You learn the basic underlying principles so that you can know how to translate that into anime. If ALL you do is copy your favorite anime artists work, then you're less likely to figure out WHY those artists made certain choices, why they put lines in certain places and don't put lines in others. You might eventually evolve into a good artist, but you're much more likely to struggle as just parroting, no better than an AI.
So TLDR, do your anime stuff, sure, but also try to just do exactly the kind of works the teacher is trying to teach, the still lifes, the anatomy studies, the classic landscapes, all the boring, non-anime stuff. It's work, but it's useful work. Do the anime stuff on your own time (mostly).
I agree with you 100%! That's why I enforce figure drawing and fundamental classes stay in realistic/semi-realistic styles but allow total freedom elsewise, ya gotta learn WHY certain aspects of anime styles work so that you can use them effectively when you do (:
I'm amazed you had art teachers 10 years ago that were all chill with it though! That's some good luck
@@squiiji3D Try 25 years ago. :D Yeah, they were cool. Now in college my school was more focused on "art for art's sake" sort of gallery artwork in a lot of ways, so some teachers were less into it, but they were relatively open to it anyway, and by then I was maturing a bit too so I was at least delivering the project as intended.
Whoops I read "decades" as one decade, gonna double down and say that was some GOOD LUCK DANG. I'm happy to hear programs like the one you were in have existed for a while!!
9/10 of the anime artists I think do the best work though have no formal training and have never posted anything but anime art. You can learn these skills while drawing anime, and it'll probably be more fun.
@@yurisei6732 Challenging yourself with a project outside your comfort zone can be fun too. and I would also suspect that your favorite anime artists have done a *lot* of non-anime artwork in their practicing, they just likely don't consider it something worth making public. It's like how MCU actors spend a ton of time in the gym to get those physiques, but the important part is what makes it into the actual films.
This was very good to hear from an actual art teacher. My time between being a middle school anime weeb and graduation my college with every art class aside from Photography and Oil painting with aspiration to work in comics and illustration it had always been baffling to me what the art teacher hatred for anime art was. Especially because of how common it was for teachers to see that you're doing what they want for class but drawing anime/fanart recreationally and still judge your class output based on that. I had always figured it was due to curriculum restrictions but I never understood the hatred outside of it, and the teachers who seemed neutral to the style didn't seem to know how to really help you improve
I'll never forget the moment my High School art teacher scoffed at the idea of me drawing Anime on a "draw anything you want" project 😅
So I ended up drawing Hokusai instead.
...And now I'm an anime vtuber.
My guy WHAT IS THE POINT of calling a project that if there's gonna be exceptions?? Wild lmao
You're pretty good as a RUclipsr.
hokusai you say? we talking a portrait or you mean some octopus, or big ol' giant waves or somethin'?...either way, that's neat lol
@@NamakuraHigan The waves, for some reason that's always been one of my favorite paintings.
@@TheDkmariolink the great wave of kanagawa is one of the most famous woodblock print of hokusai's and a common fav, always good to see more of it imo anyways
This video is an amazing case study in how you can have an exceptionally accurate and poignant premise, the experience of the field to to do it justice, and all the relevant details...
...and then clothe it in so much charged social language that anyone that doesn't 100% agree with every social opinion you have immediately switches off.
getting told I wouldn't be able to "draw like that" in year 10 was heartbreaking - but bless my year 12 teacher who heard me out on not drawing photorealism from a personal preference, and let me go through with a sketchy, childish way of drawing for my major work - it's yet to be submitted but amidst my small class of five, we have differing styles and artistic interests - all it really is, is being passionate about what you do
And that's why 99% of good looking anime comes from japan, whilst many literature works from other countries worthy of being animated are collecting dust.
Neverending Story by Michael Ende would make an AMAZING anime honestly
Thank you for this video. I've only had one professor in my educational career give me any response as to why they aren't a fan of anime art, the rest just auto rejected it. My classes encourage us to "Share Art We Like!" until its anime or cartoon-like styles. Then it's a no go or something to be looked down upon. It's such a shame. Think of how art curriculum could evolve if anime art was embraced alongside the traditional artstyles!
I still find myself hiding my anime art in an educational setting unless backed into a corner.
I'm so sorry you're stuck hiding it! It sounds like your professors are definitely falling into the closed minded category of educator, I hope you get to embrace all of your art more!
@@squiiji3D Thats one of many reasons why I love Vtubing as much as I do! ❤
3:36 FINALLY! SOMEONE ELSE GETS IT!!!
I had the opportunity to deal with two Art Teachers in High School. One was an absolutely strict Traditionalist who wanted us to do nothing but still life's every day and the other was more free form and open to interpretation.
The second of the two was still buried by the requirements for the class, which sucked, but she wanted to foster more creative growth in us than purely technical ability. I still appreciate that.
As for University. I had an Instructor who was open to the Anime Style, even if you could see the pain in his eyes every time it was brought up: but he wanted to also push us to explore other styles. He viewed it as a fad, and wanted to push us, even those of us who liked it, to find our own identities with in it.
I feel like the nature of Universities and Teachers will change over time because the old will be replaced inevitably with the new. Cycles and generations being what they are.
I understand why still life is taught, I teach it (it teaches basic forms, value, texture rendering, etc. but in the most boring way imaginable), but I'm glad you had a teacher who was more freeform too! Not hindering creativity and fun for the sake of teaching technique is a sign of a great educator there.
I give your university professor credit for not rejecting it, I hope he learns that it isn't a fad, but at the same time wanting you guys to find your own approach and identities within it is a good direction!
My teacher told me once that I should never study art if I want to have a job as an artist or designer or something similar. He said that art schools don't teach you how to draw art in a way that would help you out in a modern day world where art could be a part of your job, but that they teach art "history" and the understanding of art in the past, which is not something what someone can use to earn money.
He too was once an artist, studying art but got crushed by his own teachers because he wanted to learn art as a means of making money. Therefore he instead became a teacher to catch future artist and set the record straight by warning them about art schools and that those who want to earn money shall learn how to teach themselves art by going through the internet and learning from other successful artist of their own times and not from artist of the past.
Wow this video was super encouraging! I'm in college right now and I have an anime style. I was super concerned about it going in, but so far my professors have been fairly encouraging to me! I'm glad there are professors like you out there that encourage anime inspired styles despite the flak they get in the west sometimes.
Although, I am a little concerned about finding a job in the future. I know a lot of artists can make freelancing work for them with this style, but is there hope for finding a more corporate job in the west with an anime style? I want to be an illustrator/character designer, hopefully for games, but like the examples shown, most anime style games are made in the east. Maybe I just don't know of any studios in the US that would need/want an anime art style, but sometimes I fear that my art style will forever limit me to freelancing work. That is, if I don't want to uproot my life and move to a country where I would be more likely to find work.
Maybe by the time I graduate I'll know where to look for that.
Yay, I'm so glad your professors have been encouraging!
As far as your future goes, my suggestion is to specialize. Character Designer is the most competitive art position at most studios because it's the one everyone wants. Pick something within character designing to really hone your abilities on, you'll need something to stand out with. Are you really good at rendering eyes? Do you make really out-there concepts work? Do you have clever symbolism in your designs? Those are the things that help portfolios like that land positions. As far as uprooting your life though, I wouldn't worry about that as much. A lot of these types of positions are remote or at least hybrid now, so you may not have to move to work with a company. Good luck out there (:
@@squiiji3D Thank you for the response!! That's super helpful advice! I'll try my best out there
I have a sort of nuanced take on the subject, because while I'm not at all someone inherently against anime artstyles and fanart, I think in my classroom I'd want to make a space for creativity that is a bit less derivative. Not to say inspiration is bad inherently, every work of art under the sun is derivative, but when it comes to things like anime and fanart I think in higher education there's something to be said about strongly encouraging creativity that doesn't stem from the RELATIVELY similar art style found across MOST anime I've seen stuff about. This wouldn't just apply to anime, it'd apply to the western Disney or "Cow" art styles as well. The arts are all about self expression and creativity, and I feel like copying or strongly emulating the style of your favourite artist or anime is limiting to the development of more signature and diverse expressions of art. Fan art however I believe should be looked at with even more of a case by case basis. Drawing what you imagine your favourite character in a book looks like is a stellar exercise in creativity, but drawing your favourite anime character in their signature pose can only take a student so far.
I have nothing at all against anime, I'd watch a lot of it when I was younger, and what I'm saying doesn't exclusively apply to it at all. There's DEFINITELY a big trend of anti-anime/fanart educators not liking anime because it's not what they're used to or they look down on anything that isn't eurocentric. But I think there's a lot more one can discuss on this specific topic.
There’s a difference between ignorance and racism many old people from lots of different countries stick to their own narrative in the borders of their own culture, I personally think it doesn’t stem from racism as much as it is just plain ignorance and being out of touched. As a Thai person most of our art education is European centric base, culturally it’s Thai of course, but why is it European? Because when it came to the technicalities of art the Europeans are maybe not the ones to discover it first but they’re the ones who made it mainstream, meaning they wrote books and lots of theory of art. Also I’m kinda surprise you haven’t mention how many art teachers don’t necessarily hate the anime style but think realism is a necessary pre requisite to making good anime art as anime is derived from reality, it just so happens that the Europeans seem to be the early adopters and much more interested in this field of realism. Not saying other cultures didn’t try to perfect realism, because they did but it was really just based of iconography.
That's all definitely true, I should have specified "Art Teacher in the US," because here it is less commonly ignorance and more commonly eurocentrism (which they show in a lot of other ways too, not just in their anime hatred) or just stubbornness.
I agree though that a basis in realism is super useful, it's why I enforce it only for my fundamentals classes!
@@squiiji3D Ignorance and eurocentrism aren't mutually exclusive. In fact I'd say they were definitionally related - eurocentrism is by definition ignorance of the world beyond Europe. It's entirely possible for someone to experience all the world's art and decide that they personally most like the things going on in Europe, and that wouldn't be eurocentric, it would just be a preference. In eurocentrism, you simply don't know or understand what's going on outside Europe, or you don't care because you aren't aware of the reasons you should.
@@yurisei6732ignorance is not knowing eurocentism is looking down on non Europe stuff and refusing to learn about it
@@massmurdertron51" refusing to learn about it" that's called ignorance mate. If you know about it and just don't particularly like it, you're not being eurocentric, you just have a preference.
Ignorance and racism are so intertwined, it's a circle in all terms except math
i showed my high school art teacher a howls moving castle inspired drawing that i was working on and he immediately knew what inspired it, he's one of my favorite teachers at my high school
Amazing video! I will deploy the "xyz traditional art is just fan art" if I ever remember. Beep boop feed the algo. Also them traditionalist pics :D also the part on not being able to get rid of dangerous staff fuuu~~~ But luckily we have youtube so we can absorb your thesis on vtuber models and identity. Anyway this video is excellent.
Thank you! 🧡And yes I CONSTANTLY remind my colleagues how much of what we create is derivative of something, the exact same way fan art is, they're never prepared for my bible example hahaha
Never seen you before but had to clock your video just to tell you your oc is astonishingly beautiful
I was told by my art teachers beside one in high school that it wasn't "real" art. My one teacher (could be two, but that first one was before I got my art style and tried realism) was a sculpting teacher, and she told me to do what felt comfortable, as long as I did the techniques she taught. She ecen asked me what I was drawing sometimes and was happy when I got happy hearing her ask!
The teachers I've had who like my art aren't art teachers usually, usually they're core subject teachers or, in one instance, my psychology teacher (yes I had a very rushed psychology class in senior year). That woman was great, still is, and she owns the school's anime club (really glorified LGBTQ+ club), and motivated all of us to do well by making lessons fun! And even if we got answers wrong when she asked the class, we got candy for trying, because in her words "it's positive reinforcement!"
Im glad i grew up with a good art teacher, one who didnt mind me drawing anime and cartoons, they always told me, do what you are comfortable.
I was an art teacher for a few years, and i kept his flow, i would let my students do with what they were comfortable but to a certain extent. My grandfather was the one who truly inspired me to draw cartoons and anime stuff, as he loved drawing many styles.
His inspiring words were "do what you like best, take your time, make your imagination and what you feel, hold your ideas and create it make it become a reality and make it alive with colors and never give up if you make a mistake, learn from it and improve it."
-Jun Takahashi (grandfather, father of Jun Takahashi jr II, Grandfather to Jun K. Takahashi Jr III [me])
But back to what i was saying, art should just be what people imagine in their minds, what they can create on paper. Not Ai or tracing.
I was at a event with a bunch of colleges and Ringling art college was there. I was talking with the lady there and showed her my very anime stylized art, and her response is "We would like to see more realistic art". She tried to put it nicely, but it was then when it hit me I was just not cut out for what these art colleges wanted and I didn't wanna compromise what my art style was. I decided I can do better off on my own selling my art. Now I'm also planning to go into Chemistry as my college major, while doing art on side, quite the twist.
That's so funny because I also have a degree in organic chem from undergrad! But yeah, this is unfortunately common, but I'm glad you aren't going to compromise your style for these schools
Glad I never went there. I decided to go to my local community college that has an animation program, and that program is very welcoming of any art style.
I’m not an artist, but I took a painting class for my gen ed arts requirement and we were assigned to do master copies. The instructor had printed several paintings and allowed each one to be picked only once, and the one I selected was Hokusai’s Great Wave off Kanagawa. It was a real challenge trying to get acrylic paints I applied with a brush to mimic the consistent line thickness and sharpness of a wood block painting, and at some point I gave up trying to imitate it perfectly and diluted some white paint in water to splash a spray effect onto the canvas under the crest of the wave. But I had a lot of fun working on it, and it was a refreshing change from all the Western paintings I was used to seeing in museums! I liked my copy so much that I still have it a decade later, next to a painting of wood planks I made for a theater class. I’m really glad Eurocentrism didn’t prevent my instructor-who I believe was an art student themself-from letting us pick a non-Western painting to imitate.
I remember back in high school my AP art teacher had no problem with our interest in perusing anime styles but she did let us know what was expected in order to score well for the college board. I also asked her why she thought the style was looked down on for a long time. She thought it was because there weren't any studios or jobs anime centric in the US so that could've been the reason it wasn't encouraged. ATLA was an outlier at the time. Now we are seeing it bleed into western animation and other mediums so opportunities definitely being made compared to back then. As long as you understand the fundamentals it shouldn't matter what style you are presenting. Even traditional artists can break the rules. There was a time where impressionism and abstract were considered not real art because it wasn't realistic like the masters before. Now it is a part of art curriculums. This anime art boom is influential globally. I wouldn't be surprised if this art movement will be in a textbook in like 50 years.
Thank you for this. I had a professor who loves anime but discouraged us from using the style. However, I had another professor who was our graphic designer/ figure drawing teacher who loves anime and encourages us to use the style. I find it weird that some professors would disregard anime style considering shows like teen titans, avatar the last Airbender, Castlevania etc are popular and very successful
I remeber drawing chopper when i was like 11 and turning it into my art class. My teacher ridiculed me for it being from a crappy anime. I basically gave up ever doing art again after that point and never looked back
That's so heartbreaking I'm so sorry 😭
How are some educators okay with crushing the dreams of kids like that??
@@squiiji3D Probably jaded that theyre teaching middle schoolers or smth :C
@@muzunomi You shouldnt give up on art because of others
Sorry about that, wud have loved to see that drawing
Chopper? As in get to tha choppa?
When I was taking classes for my bachelor's degree in art, my teachers had a 'No list.' It was basically a list of things that are considered too cliche or overused (ex: crying, skulls, etc). One of those was anime. Because of my art style being more cartoony, it felt like I was always being looked down on or was treated like a child. My teachers were surprised my realism pieces weren't static at least, but I felt limited and had my art described as "eccentric" usually. There was also an incident where, in an email I was sent, my professor tried to claim Sailor Moon was 'oversexualized' in the show itself to justify having an artist in her powerpoint that treated anime as inherently sexual. She would send me an apology email later though. I have been considering going back to college for a different degree, but all-in-all, I did not like most of my teachers.
Every art class I ever took only had us make realism for 99% of the time. When it wasn't realism, it was abstract art. I've been told so meny times that my artwork isn't realistic enough.
Oddly enough My graphic design teachers don't focus on realism and they even allowed me to make Sonic The Hedgehog fan art for some projects. Overall what they care about is if I met the criteria, conveyed the purpose of the design properly, and if it looks good.
I don't know why, but this video reminded me of the time the Lourve created an exhibit where they would request several different artists to allow them to show their works, with all of them being European (4 French and 1 Belgian) except for one... that being a Japanese artist whose style was derived from many forms of European art such as several famous European statues (such as the works shown in the Vatican) and European fashion artists... and an artist who made it so that most of the Western world would have seen his art inside a museum along other famous artworks and did so without the knowledge of his original fan base in Japan all so that the European art snobs would see his work first as art and not from its original context...
It was only because of all of this effort that the artist was able to get the recognition of his work as "fine art" instead of a "silly little japanese comic book"
... And just to make everything clear.... Yes... this is none other than a Mother FLIPPIN' JoJo refrence...
I have but one last thing to say here, to the fabulous artist that is one Hirohiko Araki...
...Shine On, You Crazy Diamond...
It's sad how long it takes to make a change, but hopefully one day art schools improve their policies a bit and all four nations, I mean, artstyles will live in harmony.
I mean it's WAY better than it was when I was in highschool 10 years ago, but 10 years is still quite some time and there's a long way to go. I'd love if all the art styles could live in harmony (:
I’m currently about to enter my grad year (AKA Gr 12, yAy), and when I was in Gr 11 my art teacher gave us a painting assignment which was we had to look up an artist and then replicate the art style. I chose my Dad (as he’s an artist), who does contemporary art, I did the painting and my art teacher loved it. Probably, because he’s not an old traditional man in his 50s (he’s probably in his 40s).
Some beginner artists don't think in 3d yet and the appearance of simplicity that anime styles can have will keep the artist in that state for longer than they should be. That's like, the only time I do think it's valid for a teacher to push a student to try other styles. But they have to point out how the anime art style is feeding into their bad habits, instead of just saying "anime bad".
I totally agree.
Even more, the main idea of anime in a style is to be an image that is easy to cut out of paper like a sticker. If you fully realize this, you will understand why art teachers don't like this style.
@@Slawa_Saporogez Source: trust me bro
Good anime art is made while being aware of 3D space. You're straw-manning anime and manga to what middle schoolers with no friends draw, not the actual art form it is. For christ's sake, just like, go watch Evangelion or some shit, anime has fine artistic value and proper art techniques in it's DNA.
The problem with this reasoning: those teachers that are fine with western cartoons while dismissing anything related to anime.
It's a problem because both styles include plenty of shortcuts to speed up the work flow, hence both styles can feed into those bad habits you are talking about.
Learning the basics and mastering the foundational skills will always be beneficial, regardless what style of art you ultimatively aiming to perfect and sell later on.
Not really... I have a photo graphic memory and a multi dimensional process in how I draw to put it all together.
It got boring, fast, because I mastered it as a kid.
Designing upon the 3rd Dimension is but a whim for me.
First video I see from this creator, love the model. Its not just a live2d image you see usually and really reminds me of ps1/ps2 era of games. I use my hands a lot while talking so seeing a model being able to do this is great and fun
I am so thankful my art professors are open to any medium as long gas you rest out a variety of techniques, it has been some of the most fun and informative classes I've ever had. From lessons on perspective, to testing different kinds of clay, to experimenting with colours and styles
There is definitely hope! I am in my 4th year of Sheridan college in the animation program. While I would suggest avoiding anime when making your application because some of the people judging might be snoody about it, but once you are in, YOU CAN DRAW AS MUCH ANIME AS YOU WANT! So many of my peers draw anime and a lot of the teachers absolutely LOVE anime, one of them even worked on anime in Japan. Even the older teachers that aren't fond of anime have accepted that anime is mainstream and have accepted it. I have never heard of anyone losing marks for drawing anime, aside from life drawing, for obvious reason. I think times are changing since I know that a decade ago, this was not the case. I do recommend trying different styles along the way though so you can have a broader range which will give you a better chance for finding employment due to the state the industry is right now. ALSO keep in mind that if you want to work on anime in Japan, the pay is awful and you will be worked to the bone, you will be doing it for the passion, not the pay.
my high school art teacher actually liked my anime art style
she still taught western realist art like you mentioned, but her thinking was that all artists had to start somewhere, and that's generally the western realist mastercopies. i agreed with her. look at some of picasso's old art. he didn't just grab his iconic style out of nowhere, he had to start somewhere. i think one time she said that if I learn the western realist stuff, it could help me improve my anime art style, bc I could grab techniques taught from the class into my own art.
My 2nd year art prof was a professional animator and was surprisingly flexible when it came to what you did when the assignment wasn't life drawing or realism because as far as she was concerned, if you were improving your shading, perspective, anatomy, and all the other "official" stuff, it was going to improve your entire body of work.
Head of the Art Dept, however, still has an amazing ability to put what he sees onto a page or canvas and really preferred we stuck to the course materials, and that's why he's still doing shows in galleries.
I had a HORRIBLE art teacher in 9th grade. She wanted us to learn everything and realizing before doing anything stylized. She made me almost hate my own art for other reasons. She just hated kids in general I guess😭 but at 19, I’m still drawing art! She didn’t win❤ thank you for talking about this
this genuinely opened my eyes both as an adult who does freelance , and sort-of healed my younger teen self who was consistently discouraged for having an "anime art style" , and even flat out rejected by an art high school because of it.
we need MORE open minded teachers and curriculums because what was once never considered is now much more mainstream and common no matter where you look.
this video made me more inspired to continue pursuing freelance art and feel comfortable in what i do, even if it's for fun
One of my few issues with the "I just want to draw anime/anime is my style" students is that many don't want to learn the basics first. Anatomy, lighting, composition, color theory, etc... As the old saying goes, "you gotta know the rules before you can break them." After that, use those tools to create the art you want!
This, absolutely this.
A lot of kids are really stubborn about their art, and don’t understand that class is not necessarily where you go to learn how to do things in the specific way you want to do them. That and they often get all too attached to really bad habits and skills with the excuse that it’s their style…
Then complain that they’re not improving like they want to.
Like you don’t sign up for a writing class expecting to be able to pass by only turning in Naruto Fanfiction.
Stylization is a skill on its own, but it’s based on, ultimately, realism and basic design principles.
Though on the other hand some teachers overstep by not just banning anime in the classroom (which makes sense to a point) but also targeting, demeaning, and/ or harassing students for having it in their personal work.
While that plays a role, the bigger issues are what was mentioned in this video. And as a result, that needs to be kept in mind
I mean to even draw a gud "anime" like artstyle u do need good understanding of anatomy, composition, lighting either way. Otherwise it won't turn out good at all.
That's y u won't like it either way whether it's anime like or nah
I was that kind of student, what helped me was considering the style of drawing I like as a book. There is nothing wrong with having my drive for writing being to write a particular genre of book. However no matter how much I'm want to write that book - I'm going to need to learn how to write letters, words and sentences. Learn the foundations and how to apply them quickly, then draw whatever I want.
I feel like that can apply to more than just those that draw anime. Basics are annoying for everyone. But everyone who wants to improve in art will subconsciously learn the basics enough to create what they want. Not everything has to be learned at the same time aha.
In 9th grade I practically lost the joy I had for drawing after having it thoroughly pummeled out by the demands of that school and its courses. I had to do art for every class, and in the titular art class I was practically bullied by the teacher for drawing anime style. Before then I used to go through two of three 50-page drawing notebooks per semester, I was about 15 back then. I'm 23 years old now and while I still carry a drawing notebook whenever I go to any class, I have not changed that notebook since 11th grade, and its not even halfway used... It really hurts wanting to draw and having all these ideas for what I want to draw, but I genuinely struggle putting pen to paper now. I have all these ideas in my head but I just can't put them to paper like I used to anymore...
Sorry for the textwall btw, I also wanna say I really like your model, it looks adorable and the mushroom design is something I really love!
I also see a lot of people (teens mostly) encountering bad grades or unapplicable grading from "anime art" Fanart or even OC art because they didn't follow directions of the assignment. Its verry simple but its a lot of it. I think a lot of educators even mislabel the issue because its easier to steer them away from the issue than the student putting in the extra effort to do it creatively or them thoughouly explainling why. (especially at basic art classes in high schools as an example)
(a decent percentage even end up ignoring any further critiques or grades proclaiming the teacher is just jealous and they are way better than them. Witch ultimately doesn't help either party)
Its definitely a issue that need to be talked about in the art world. So far my least enjoyable professor was an art appreciation teacher, she was a gallery artist type who degraded people who post art online or do things digitally or art from their phones. She had other issues but woo wee thease type are a pain.
I had a lot of teachers like this. the way they chose to present the critiques (anime bad) is what lead me away from pursuing art at all; instead of simply pointing out to me where i was missing the point of the assignment/lesson.
That's just a curriculum problem. They should stop setting assignments that make students feel uninspired. That happened to me, I loved writing as a young teenager, but years of "do what we tell you" writing tasks caused my hobbies to shift to less restrained places.
@@yurisei6732 Even the state board of education can't overrule federal curriculum standards that require that the subject of fan art be pre-1929. (See: Title 17, United States Code)
@@DamianYerrick Oh I was meaning in the UK, the US has way bigger problems to sort out before it can worry about how many young artists it's not creating.
I literally don't have the spirit to draw anymore, cuz of my high school art teacher. I rember trying as hell to draw something good that i came up with. But every time "it wasn't good enough" without telling what is wrong. She literally dismissed my every drawing just 'cause I did it in my way. So then I found some photo on the net, copied the main lines and put the same colour. She approved. No creativity since, just copy existing thing and get high grade. No wonder several years later i'm unable to come up with perspective or any vision on my own. What's the point of art classes if all you do is teach how to copy and paste?
When I was in collage the art teacher I had was okay with anime artstyles. However the students that did anime artstyles tended to be the shittiest students. Like using anime as a historic artstyle because "you don't have to draw realistic looking people", or just tracing panels from a manga and saying it is their own creation. It was really sad that their "anime is the best artstyle in the world" rubbed of on some students, like drawing a character in a realistic or god forbid western artstyle would get you bullied in class critique.
i wonder if it's like this in the UK? i'm scared to go to an art college (Not university - it's basically high school in the UK) as I'm worried they'll just be like "DO OIL PAINTINGS OF FRUITS!!!!" so Hmm
I have no doubt you'll be doing oil/charcoal sill life work regardless of where you go to school, that's pretty standard curriculum 😭
There's a lot to learn from doing that kind of work that can still make your other artwork stronger! But believe me when I say that it bores me to tears to have to do or teach too
Hi! UK art grad here. It will depend on the course and teachers honestly. An IB Visual Arts course, which is what I did, is more freeform than an A-Level Fine Art course. was the pannacotta when I was in sixth form, so I didn't know nor care about their views on anime art.
As an american who dosnt know what theyre talking about: its prob the same as in the states
Obviously depends on the college and the teacher, but for me: (I take a level fine art and a level graphic design) the start of the course was pretty controlled, but once you start your personal investigation it became open to whatever you want to do
It’s nice to know things are getting better since my last year art teacher referenced anime many times during class and even showed his fanart during class as art examples
Through the lens of a career (and lets be real, if you're going to school for anything it's probably related to a career you want to pursue), belittling and disparaging any kind of art, especially fan art and and anime, is among the worst things an art educator can do.
Fanart often lands careers in art, because employers want to see what you can do and have something to compare it to. If you show an the picture of Aerith that was in the bg of this video and include the source material, that has WAY more value in a lot of industries that a portrait of an OC, or random model. The value in taking someone else's idea and creating something powerful, interesting, or useful is literally what an employer wants to see. Because that's probably going to be your job. Someone will say "I want this" and you make it for them and they pay you.
And anime is a BOOMING industry, just as you showed in the video. There's tons of opportunity to be had in anime styles. My wife is a full time illustrator with a style that grew from anime when she was in school. Her teachers always told her she'd never have a career if she did anime and it would teach her bad habits and ruin her style. And she got out of school and has been professionally drawing anime and hyper stylized anime-esque illustrations since literally right after school. It was easier for her to find clients than anyone she knew doing traditional European art.
I seriously think that teachers and the administration that does the portfolio and accreditation should be required to interact with the industries they're preparing students for. Like in STEM, and especially trade schools, there's often regular times when people from different industries will at least send reviews, memos, or hopefully meet in person to discuss the needs of their industry and insure that students are actually being guided in a direction that will be useful when they graduate. I get the feeling that that doesn't happen in art schools, because traditionalist would be shaking and foaming at the mouth.
I'm glad you reminded people to Pass their classes. Self-righteousness can end up hurting yourself if you don't know when to slow down and use patience.
This isn't about the education system and culture, but a professional one. I didn't stay in animation for long (for a variety of reasons but largely because being an animator in a third world country SUCKS), but I've worked for both western animation and anime-style animation studios. It's interesting how both "sides" tend to look down on the other, and often have the same arguments against the other.
I definitely didn't stay long enough to be able to properly talk about it (or even how deep it runs) but it's still a weird and interesting observation.
I teach character design for western animation and I don't recommend a lot of books on it because they LOVE to slip in snide remarks about other styles, I've definitely seen what you mean
One is realism that emphasize the outstanding techniques and attention to details, the other is simplification that focusing on the beauty and exaggerate the emotion, both take a different set of skills but overall using the same fundamentals, they might argue that this is too boring or that is too simple(or I maybe wrong).
@@daiman_SX0 The funniest complaint that both sides have is that the other is way easier to animate and thus requires less skill. When really it's just a matter of emphasizing on different aspects of animation a majority of the time 🥲
I consider myself one of the lucky ones. My middle school art teacher drew newspaper comics and has his own comic published with anime style art. He was also advisor to the anime and manga club. He even had a lecture on how to make manga at the local library. But he never covers manga and anime style in class. During club time, yes, but in class, no. It's been years, but I recall him putting an emphasis on learning to draw realism to get better and get the basics down. One time after high school, I met him again and asked how to draw hands. He told me to use my smartphone to take pictures of my own hands and draw them.