Quick Change Mill Tooling Upgrade For The Mill (Mark 1)
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
- Quick Change Mill Tooling (Mark 2) • Quick Change Mill Tool...
G'day everyone,
I have been wanting to make a quick change tooling system for the mill for quite some time now. Whilst this is not a production shop, it can take quite a long time to swap out tooling and collets with the ER 32 collet system I currently use.
As a proof of concept I have devised this simple quick change tooling system, using a Morse taper collet, and some cheap import ER 20 collets. This will be an ongoing project that I intent to improve through out the course of next year.
I hope you enjoy the video., cheers.
Lathe: Sieg c3 7x14 Mini Metal Lathe
Mill: Sieg X2.7l
#machining #DIY #millingmachine
Timestamps
0:00 - Introduction
1:03 - Machining The Tool Holder
5:07 - Cutting The Collet Taper
7:22 - Machining Spanner Flats
7:49 - Final Parts
8:48 - Testing The Tooling
Follow Up Video To This. Quick Change Mill Tooling (Mark 2) ruclips.net/video/alGJqKOwbBs/видео.html
great idea. I've done similar, but as you suggested at the end, I just made custom set screw based holders. The pop you hear, when you cover the set screw hole with your finger and pull out the cutter always makes me feel happy that it was such a tight fit.
I do need to finish the rest of my holders. I have only made a few at this time.
Nicely done! Having quick-change tooling in the mill really is a great quality-of-life upgrade. I've been using the Tormach TTS holders for a while, and I love them. And you're absolutely right about the hit-or-miss nature of import collets... Import anything, really. The quality of import machining stuff has improved considerably, but you still get the occasional bunk lot.
For the next upgrade, you should consider grinding down the Morse-taper collet, so the collet is slightly recessed in the spindle nose. This way, the flanges on the tool holders will be pulled tight against the spindle nose, which then becomes a registration surface. This makes your tool holders not only quick-change, but positionally repeatable, as well (that's how the TTS system works). Then, if you ever get a DRO for your mill, you can build a tool library which stores the Z-offsets of each tool, which makes your workflow even more efficient.
Keep up the good work! It's awesome to see how much you've improved your machines with creative DIY solutions.
The problem import tools (China for example) isn't that they can't make high quality tools (or anything) as they can. The problem is that the consumer want's everything to be cheaper and cheeper and demand lower prices. Large companies from the US, Europe, Australasia ect play the Chinese manufacturers against each to get the cheapest prices. The manufacturers don't want to to lose money so they lower the quality of the products to keep making profits. So the consumers are a fault for low end quality products from Asia.
Di buona volontà’ ( e braccia !) per tagliare a mano quei pezzi.
Yeah man! I did the same for my woodworking lathe - I make custom fountain pens and each one will have about 15 drilling operations... from 6mm to 12.2mm. So you can imagine how much opening and closing of the chuck I do. I did the same as you - motor shaft collets, ER16 and er20, with a bunch of collets. Install the bits and then it's a simple open/close since every shaft is 10mm! I first saw it on Abom's channel as a tap holder, and had an idea of what to do... it all clicked when I saw Steve Jordans RUclips channel and he showed is motor shaft collet system. Brilliant stuff!
Its refreshing watching someone work who isn't in a $250,000 youtube studio shop. Thanks for the content!
I can't wait for you to find a way to get a bandsaw into your shop. Quick change tools are great, but I can't imagine how much time you spend with the hacksaw
Was just about to say that the greatest time saver would be a bandsaw. 😁
Or at least some sort of custom disc for an angle grinder.
Yeah, I know you know and that you want one. It will come. 😊
A porta-band only costs about $250 and can do almost anything you do with a hacksaw. Probably the best tool investment I ever made in terms of time saved per dollar.
I think his goal is to make this a running gag...
@@trashes_to_treasures Agree. 👍😊
@@trashes_to_treasures
It has become his catch cry to use a hacksaw. It makes him feel like he is one of us common folk!....LOL...Don't no-one tell him we all use powered saws to cut metal!
I am watching your videos for a while now, i must say, the frequency you upload videos is impressive. Kudos 👌
Also love your hands on mentality
Amazing work dude, persistence certainly paid off there; the results are great! Look forward to the next itteration
Fantastic upgrade to your milling machine. Waiting for your next project friend:))
Good work. Indeed, setting a work piece usually takes longer than cutting!
Great video man, keep'um coming..
Hey 5 comments 3 anti-hacksaw.
So let's balance it out I'm with you in the hacksaw gang. bandsaw just takes space and cutting things by hand sure is tedious but it is only the smallest part of shaping metal.
What is few minutes when you spend hours on the part afterwards ?
To me a bandsaw only make sense if you have to cut a lot of chunky stock or you need to often cut a lot of the same length of stock.
Great work, we've really been enjoying your channel. We shared this video on our homemade tools forum this week :)
Excellent Idea.. Love it.. will look at someting similar for my mill
Cheers, this is still a work in progress. If you don't want to DIY it, there are preground er collet holders you can get on AliExpress. Cheers
This is great technique
I ordered a cheap set of collets off of amazon and decided to return them immediately after opening them. Collets are one of, if not the most important part that affects runout. I splurged and got a set from Maritool. VERY happy with my purchase.
Thanks for posting.
I have my own super simplistic flavor of quick change tooling like this. I do everything in a single op on the lathe. 25mm shank diameter, drill and bore a hole, chamfers and part it off. Nothing more to it. I use Loctite 648 to secure the end mills and whatever. It grips better than an ER collet in case someone is wondering. About 0,01-0,02mm oversize hole and the loctite film will center it pretty well. You can release the tool by heating to about 250°C .
I bought a pile of er20 chucks for this purpose but they were way off, I may try and redo them
Very good video Sir, you do more with your mini lathe than I do with my South Bend 13" lathe. Experience goes a long way. My only problem is I can't understand you lol, my hearing aids are in the shop. I'll watch again once I get them back. Thank you. Well it's a good thing I can still see what I'm looking at.
Nice job. You can sometimes gently tap your end mills into concentricity while they are tightened up in the collets. Its also worth bearing in mind that the edge finder doesn't need a high accuracy mounting. Save your nicely made holders for more critical tooling :). Your more determined than me doing all that hacksawing!
Very elegant solution. You might want to grind them while they are in the mill spindle with a table fixture for the perfect runout.
I would suggest looking in to all systems. For your standard (always used) carbide endmills (dont shrink HSS without proper tooling) a shrink is most likely the best option.
having some weldorns for things where a bit of runout dosnt matter is also great because its fast and cheap.
And bad quality collets are good for nothing but egefinding. Ditch those before a tool pulls out.
But collet chucks in generell have their place for precision machining.
And in the second batch of tooling I suggest doing a B16 taper for a drillchuck (or) too. So you can leave your drawbar collet in there all the time.
I think you're doing pretty good. Giving something a go and sharing what you've learned on here is what makes your channel enjoyable to watch & learn from.
I bought myself a set of cheap er16 collets on ebay knowing they'd be crappy - it was for me to learn more about grinding & improving tooling. So, if your goal is high precision, you'll have to start looking down the grinding, lapping & honing path - in the meantime though, think how you can get repeatability and being able to index your tooling and holders. Have fun - Stay safe and well :)
Cheers, just using the lathe compound I have managed to create collets that give me around 20 or so microns of run out, which is what I was aiming for. Not giving up just yet, certainly room to improve.
My hands sore when I see you using hacksawing such thick metals😀
Wow, those ER collets really should not be rusty. Time to invest in a quality set. 👍😀
Good idea
Awesome
I use a MT3 shank to ER20 holder from ebay. Also been hit and miss mostly with the draw bar thread on the piss.
For endmills get a weldon shank style holder, the er- collets might be fine just need some cleaning up maybe. Where i work and what ive been taught is to not use collets for endmills, but for drilling er collets are the way to go for run-out. the collets cant handle as much side load as a weldon, like imagine all the spaces in the collet as chatter zones compared to a 3/8 endmill holder for a 3/8 and the tight slip fit and pop that comes with it, just alot less room for the endmill to 'run-out' and move around. love all the vids and progress you've been making with your machines :)
Be careful with long length of cuts with endmills, you can get pull out. The problem is worse with larger diameters. Nice job though, now you can ad some spring washers and a pneumatic cylinder for a one button tool change.
I tried something similar and realised even with good collets, the combination of collet nut, collet and the holder make it a bit of hit and miss. Shrink fit tooling seems to be the way to go if accuracy is important.
You are a gamer man than me - changing inserts on a tool while it is on the machine... I dont have much luck deep diving to find dropped screws in the pile of swarf in the bottom of the lathe...
Cheers, I usually have a small container than I pop under the tool holder to catch the screw, just in case it drops.
Just wondering Collet Chuck ER32 what is the best number Common for ER32 what your recommendation for my homemade milling machine please
I have the same mini lathe how do u get your cross slide to move so freely and not have slop. I know the video is sped up too but I’ve made a set of brass gibs as well and it’s still prettt stuff
I would paint the non-mating toolpost with black rustoleum paint and put it in the oven for 30 minutes or so. It will look a thousand times better.
nice video. You need to make you a handle for hand turning a lathe spindle... it is a must have in the shop .... trust me...
I don't lot.more thread cutting than I used to so this might be worthwhile in doing. Cheers
What causes those deep circular tool marks from the end mill? dull tool? lack of coolant? vibration? chatter? I was looking to get a mini mill but I want it to be able to face parts with a smooth finish. I notice your parts have a very rough surface finish.
Hey would you be up to doing a live Q&A ?? Got heaps of questions and I’m guessing lot of other people do too. Keep the hard work up mate
A+
you should get or make a bandsaw for cutting all the materials :)
I made basically the same thing, I copied the tormach system. I did the taper and threading first, then made a center hole on a dowel pin and put that in the collet, then I turned the shank between centers, no run out, then the nut and collet are kept with that setup.
Similar to the tormach one, I wish they made it with something other than R8
@@artisanmakes They do make a special MT3 3/4" collet for their TTS system. I am in Australia and its damn expensive. With importation and currency rates it is 3x the price.
I was not aware of that but if that's the price, that is certainly outside of the budget. I'm sure it's of good quality though. Cheers
Once you finally get your portable band saw, I hope you review for us, but definitely keep showing yourself using a hack saw so that running joke doesn't go away.
Have you thought about improving the finish on your quick change toolpost? A little rubbing with some emery paper, and a bit of cold bluing, and people will be asking where you got that stylish thing from!
Ive been meaning to clean up the surface for a while, though the cold blue is certainly a great idea
👍👍👍
Someone get this man a portaband
Your lathe headstock is MT3, right? Could've used the MT3 collet on the lathe, no need for a 4-jaw 😉 (deburr those collets, it's gonna get better!)
Have you tried making a hand crank for the back of the head stock on the lathe.
I end up using that more than powered on my lathe for doing thread
No but I might just do it. Been threading a lot more than I used to on the lathe and it might just need it. Cheers.
It pains me to see you using a manual hack saw. I am sure you can get a get Taiwanese or other power band saw for a reasonable price. Still enjoy and learn a lot from your videos.👍👍👍
As far as it taking up space, mine slides under a bench when not needed; similar to what how Winky's stores his.
Make some solid holders for those end mills. Much more rigid and the side load ruins your collets.
I had another go at making an ER16 holder and I may have overestimated the accuracy of the MT3 spring collets. The endmill runout on the lathe was about 0.01-0.02mm at the endmill shank (about 5mm from the ER16 collet spring). The same endmill holder mounted on the mill, had a 0.08-0.1mm runout at the endmill shank.
So even with shrink fit tooling, there are multiple moving parts that need to be very accurate.
Sorry to hear, that is not good at all. Might be luck of the draw with these collets, and maybe I got a good one. I haven not seen a name brand one, so the quality control is a bit of a mystery. Cheers
@@artisanmakes haha don't be, I half expected something to be off. Part of the process with mystery Aliexpress or eBay purchases. I'll eventually get to the projects I want to do instead of making tools ;)
I see a lot of folks trying this. Keep in mind after turning .001 under size. Then you heat treat and GRIND into spec.
This is true, but I think that is beyond the capabilities of my current workshop. I've made one or two collet chucks this way before and held them to about 20 microns of run out. Not perfect but it's a start.
You know you can buy straight shank ER tool holders for cheap from ebay and aliexpress...
I'm well aware of that, but the point of this hobby is to figure it out and do it yourself.
@@artisanmakes these rough turned parts will never give you usable precision without finish grinding, btw forget about making weldon holders, they are the hardest thing to make, the tolerance for the hole diameter and concentricity is less then 2 microns and without a hole grinder they are impossible to make even with a good quality reamer, the hole will be always off
@@DolezalPetr I bought the cheapest ones like that and they're all unusably bad. The taper is centered but the threads aren't and this makes them unfixable. If the taper was off but threads were centered, I could've just trued it up. The shank could be trued up to the thread and then trued the bore but it won't fit the same collet anymore and it's actually 2x more work than making a new one from scratch
Good work! I think you can see a large part of the precision problems (and the surface finishes!) in the lathe at ruclips.net/video/zKNXUorPkY4/видео.html and at ruclips.net/video/zKNXUorPkY4/видео.html... In the video it seems the entire toolholder shifts slightly when the load on the tool changes.... Bed twist? Need to tighten the gibbs? Hard to see.
A quick change system improves quality of life quite a lot, keep at it! :)
Very difficult to see, especially when filming. Didn't see it until editing. Such a small compound that it's easy to have this trouble. Cheers
Geesus wept.....first a hand powered hacksaw and now a hand powered threading application.........you are a die hard......I normally do threading in the lathe under power and with a handle clamped in the end of the spindle to reverse the work piece due to a screwed on chuck etc.
Sometimes I also screw cut with the handle in the end if the threads are short and on the small size, like 6mm diam etc.
When I re-built my jig borer, to make it a mill per se, I had to have an ER32 chuck as a permanent part of the spindle end as the spindle itself originally had a Morse 2 taper and has a solid drive shaft with no means to have a drawbar, so I cut the Morse taper off of the spindle and fitted an ER32 plain shank chuck........milling anything without a drawbar is suicidal.......all of my tooling went to a 20mm diam shank which made it virtually quick change even if spanners are the release mechanism.
So, I mill in the ER32 chuck with normal collets and put up with having to change over collets for every end mill size as and when and have a keyless drill chuck for drilling.......all other tooling ends with a 20mm shank like the boring head etc.
Nice work but you should have done the boring and taper first , then , use a live center to hold the part while cutting the thread. Because you've cut the tread first and did a lot of work (drill+bore) the part most likely shifted few microns and the tread where not concentric anymore. furhermoreit is difficult to see and test the concentricity on the tread.. this explain why you had runnnout problem. and for more precision you should have done the part in one piece. You will always get some error if you do it in 2 setup.
Definitely something to consider, but the biggest issue I had was the taper itself, Cheers
Kreatif
Bro you need a band saw!
コレットチャック受ける側焼入れ側
内径研磨仕上げ
内径真円精度が0.001ミクロン以下
上記条件の場合チャッキング時工具の芯円精度は上がるだろう。
Collet chuck receiving side quenching side
Inner diameter polished finish
Inner diameter perfect circle accuracy is 0.001 micron or less
Under the above conditions, the accuracy of the core circle of the tool during chucking will increase.
here
dont cut stock by hand!
خامة طرية لا تصلح للعمل المحترف
Jesus Christ.... Why not changing your bearings from the C5 collet. Or try to adjusting them.
No wonder you are getting so much chattering on your cuts
I don’t use 5c collets
@@artisanmakes just because I'm not able to identify the name of your contraction suddenly I'm the idiot .... If you where not able to see the accuracy and presume is perfect then you promotion shit. And still have the guts to upload a video that makes you look useless.... Then is my right to call you out and to block you permanently..... Is it
No I just wasn’t and still am not sure what you are referring to
@@artisanmakes typical politician
Denied denied denied
Them the stupid one here ... So go ahead and say it ... Go back to school and learn to read and write.... And that would make me what .... Just say it ...